In This Episode
This week, Louis Virtel is joined by TV writer Rheeqrheeq Chainey to discuss Luca Guadagnino’s After the Hunt, Apple TV’s Mr. Scorsese docuseries, Netflix’s gay military drama Boots, Kim Kardashian’s faux fur thongs, and the current Oscar front-runners. Michelle Wolf also joins to discuss writing for late night, Barcelona’s comedy scene, and her new stand-up special, The Well.
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TRANSCRIPT
Louis Virtel [AD] .
Louis Virtel And we’re back with an all new episode of Keep It. I’m Louis Virtel, and I’m not working at Kimmel this week. So get this. I’m fully rested. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or bad thing for the podcast, since I usually do this sleep deprived and livid. But today I’m here, Effervest. And equally Effervest is my co host today, who is a writer, but more importantly, a bon vivant. But she’s written on The Sex Lives of College Girls. She’s an Emmy winner for the Babysitters Club. It’s my friend Rheeqrheeq Chainey. Welcome back to Keep It.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Hi, it’s an absolute honor to be here in full fucking glam at nine AM in the morning.
Louis Virtel Did you know that when I go into your house I dream of stealing your Emmy? ‘Cause you put it right in the front vestibule.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey It is a a s a space of false humility. Yes. I think like, oh, it’s where my thermostat is. No one could look except it does have its own light.
Louis Virtel Yes. It is beautiful. No, it looks like it’s basking. Yeah. I have Ocean’s eight like fantasies of stealing it every time with the help of my friends.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I should put it in the bathroom as many a award winner has said so that people can do their speeches if they want to. But she’s heavy and very precarious, and but I could just fall over.
Louis Virtel And I with the exception of the Oscar probably the best looking in the light.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, it she has a sheen. Yeah. He they. I don’t know. Right. I actually don’t know. But it is it is very as I am bottom heavy.
Louis Virtel That’s so nice that you can relate to your award. To connect to the award. Oh my God. I’ve never heard that done before. Okay, now I’m sure you were aware there’s this new show on Netflix called Boots, which is military oriented, but more importantly, twink empowering.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, I think it’s so clear it was made so you could call your friends and p and ask, Are you watching Boots? And that’s most of the vibe there.
Louis Virtel And it’s based off this book called The Pink Marine. Yeah. I feel like you are maybe out of any friend I’ve ever had, the most Netflix oriented. I feel like you’ll see everything that’s on Netflix.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I will give it a ganda. The beauty of living in my house without a person else in there is I can watch whatever the fuck I want to. But Boots is kind of fascinating because it is a period piece from 1990. Even though Vera Farmiga is dressed like Rosemary’s baby’s aunt. Yeah. And it’s a very interesting time. But it is, I feel like Netflix does it has to serve all of these markets, and it’s trying to pull in the middle-aged like I who watch Diplomat, but also younger kids who aren’t exposed to these now historical 1990 stories.
Louis Virtel I like boots. I was gonna get into what the Pentagon has said about boots, but you’ve actually tapped into what I really want to talk about with this show is it keeps insisting it’s from nineteen ninety. And then it takes the sound cues to remind me that we’re in nineteen ninety. Like this very 2025 gay guy is the star of it, having gay guy twenty twenty-five problems. And then they’ll just throw in Tom’s Diner by Suzanne Vega. You can’t do that.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I but maybe it’s all to say all of you boys who think you’re very, very special in your feelings, they’ve existed the whole time.
Louis Virtel Right. No, read read the works of Terrence McNally, and you’ll know that we’re not the first. Exactly. We’ll not be the last, thankfully. But unfortunately, we we have to get into what the Pentagon has said about this show. I don’t think of myself as like defending people who join the military. Like it’s just not something I’m good at. I do think they have the fashion right. The fits are are hot, as the children would say. And only children would only the children would say. But the quote goes like this: Under President Trump and Secretary Hagseth, the US military is getting back to restoring the warrior ethos. Our standards across the board are elite. Another great Netflix show. Uniform and sex neutral, because the weight of a rucksack or human being doesn’t care if you’re a man, a woman, gay, or straight. We will not compromise our standards to satisfy an ideological agenda, unlike Netflix, whose leadership consistently produces and feeds woke garbage to their audience and children. My first reaction is I love calling Pete Hagseth a secretary. Girl, get back to that typewriter.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Sure doesn’t.
Louis Virtel Let me check the roller.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Let’s see. Actually, I actually really do need a coffee, do you need a tea? Also, there is something funny. Them saying sex neutral is very interesting for this administration, which is very dedicated to a, I don’t know, take your creatine. Yeah, like creatine lead in your protein powder esque masculinity. So you guys are sex neutral now is a very is a new brand. And let’s move into it.
Louis Virtel And also they are railing against a show where the star is a big fan of Wilson Phillips. That is what the show is about.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Well, it’s like who are you swinging at is the conversation we keep having. And like there is a moment in the pilot of boots, sorry, boots, where a black recruit has to be handed shaving powder instead of shaving cream so that he doesn’t get ingrown hair the hair. And that is something that’s happening right now. They’re trying to say that the clean shaven look is the only way you can be in the military, whereas like it’s only to just punish black and brown people. So there is something like very current about this show that is without time and space. Yeah. And I think that’s and that’s the point. I mean, the one straight guy I talked to weekly is the one who told me to watch it. And when Julian, I watched it and it was fine. Why are they so threatened by a clavicle heavy twink trying to kiss a boy? Maybe their masculinity isn’t as firm as they think it is.
Louis Virtel Correct. And also I wanna try to put my finger on why the queerness in the show accidentally feels so contemporary and why it wouldn’t be the same in nineteen ninety. I just feel like the dialog this main character is having with the other potentially queer yeah recruits feels a little too knowing. Am I just too jaded? I don’t know.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I don’t know. I think it all but it’s it’s the distance of the story, right? So we can put our feelings on a nineteen ninety story and be like, I don’t know if he would that sounds like somebody who’s at three dollar bill. Yeah. I don’t think that he would have been.
Louis Virtel A lovely place in New York.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey No, he look, I am Julia Hive of a millennial proportion. As we’ve mentioned, I’ve seen You have a Mona Lisa smile. I, babe, I just be smirking off the side of my face all the time. Da Vinci Code is trying to get me. I do feel like as someone who’s seen America’s Sweethearts too many times, and as you know, someone who had a challengers-themed birthday party last year. Correct. This was a film that I was supposed to be the audience for. But upon leaving, I didn’t know who they were making this movie for. Yeah. And again, I feel part of that was how far away from a story should we be to revisit it?
Louis Virtel Yes. It’s ’cause this is one of these other weird period pieces from five years ago. Exactly.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Exactly. It’s a very short, short period of time to then let’s take a step back and look at it with some sort of I don’t know opaque view of what of what opinion and truth is. But I don’t know. They m it’s set in September of two thousand nineteen at Yale, ha ha ha. And they put it in a philosophy department, which really does feel like a elbow patch on an elbow patch to be discussing like who is telling the truth and what it what matters.
Louis Virtel And we’ll get into that. Murky opaqueness. We’ll see how far we get. Our guest today is the fabulous comic who’s back with a new special, Michelle Wolf. She is recently a mom. She also lives in the mysterious planet of Barcelona, which I’ve never visited. I only know the Witt Stillman movie. I’ve never been there.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I’m only Victor Vicky or Christina.
Louis Virtel Yeah. Oh, another lovely movie. And we’ll get into that guy too. And then furthermore, Rheeqrheeq and I are also big fans of Martin Scorsese. So we’re going to get into the docuseries Mr. Scorsese, directed by Rebecca Miller, who, of course, is married to Daniel Day-Lewis, who gives one of his rarest interviews. I’ve not I can’t even I don’t even remember the last time I saw him give an interview.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey He appears from a bluff to do a talking head. It was amazing.
Louis Virtel Right. And he’s like no, he’s like holding like a a a mystical magical instrument and has long flowing hair.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Oh, he d you know, he did his time as a cobbler and now he’s back.
Louis Virtel Right. Yes. It was cobbling up interviews. So that’s our episode today. We’ll be right back with more keep it.
[AD].
Louis Virtel Luca Guadagnino’s latest film, After the Hunt, finally hit theaters nationwide after a mixed bag of reviews from the Venice Film Festival, starring Julia Roberts, Long May She Rain, Andrew Garfield, Long May She Rain, and Iowa Debris, the Me Too tinged movie follows the fallout on a college campus after professors accused of assault. Now, it’s nice to see Julia back on the big screen, but in general, the movie hasn’t been getting much love. Rheeqrheeq, were you looking forward to seeing the film?
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Oh, of course I was. I remember they released the cast announcement last year. And to quote one of the stars, I’ve never been more seated. I love these sort of small portrait films, whether it’s on a campus or a boardroom. I don’t know. White people behave in badly is always going to be one of my s safe spaces. But upon seeing it, I realized I don’t know if the seat was for me. Yeah. I was really confused as to who they were trying to reach with this movie.
Louis Virtel Well, here’s the thing. We can get into what the movie is actually about in a second. I will say, for the drabness that you’re sort of immersed in with this movie, it is just too long a movie. I want to say. Before we actually get into the content of it, Luca’s movies tend to be so sensual that you can actually feel what’s happening in the movie. Like I think of a bigger splash and like, I’m like overwhelmed with sensations or call me by your name, or even Sespiria, which was so gross I could barely sit through it. But in this movie, it’s all sleek services and very aloof people and lots of distance between all the characters, even if they’re bantering philosophically the entire time. So it’s just a chilly drab movie. Now we actually get into the content of it. You know what this movie felt to me like altogether? I want to compare it to an earlier Julia Roberts movie, August Osage County, and that it feels like, and this is what August Osage County is, this is not, an adaptation of a play where the verve of the play doesn’t translate to the screen. Yeah. Whereas if you watched August Osage County actually in a theater, the screaming and the fights and like the the dinner table drama, that all plays really well, and it’s what you want out of a play.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Apply a fetch patch, yeah.
Louis Virtel Yes, and then when you watch the movie, it’s like, why does this feel slow? Why does this feel like there’s s too many characters? Why does it feel like there’s like less of an urgency than there should be? It feels like there’s not an engine really making this thing occur. Though I will say it got more entertaining to me as it went along. It’s the first hour that was really hard for me.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I mean, it really it does feel like it is a kitchen sink play. Yeah. They’re let these folk in a philosop philosophy office discuss their points of view on an issue and then we will reveal who has been up to no good. But you’re completely correct. It doesn’t really translate to something that should be a cinematic moment, even if it is leaning on the slights of intimacy. Luca had so many close shots of hands and glasses. I’m like, girl, pull it out. Pull pull the c camera out. I don’t need to see I don’t think we have established enough sensuality between these people or mismanaged intimacy to have that as a part of the film. Yeah. And it was really frustrating because I love the way that he directs dynamics. It just honestly it felt like a script problem too.
Louis Virtel Me. Yes, yeah. So in this movie, Julia Roberts is an esteemed philosophy professor. She’s married to Michael Stolbarg, who most who’s most memorable. Yes, most memorable role to date is the dad in Company by Your Name. But there was like a 10-year window where he was in at least three best picture nominees a year. Yeah, he’s been booked blessed and busy. Yeah, right. And then Julia Roberts is sort of having an inappropriate relationship, seemingly with Andrew Garfield, another member of the philosophy department. They’re both on the tenure track. There’s some playful competition there. And then she has this student who’s this kind of seeming hot shot played by Iowa Debris, who we start to realize other people have suspicions about. She comes from wealth. Yeah. They they just find her to be insincere altogether. Maybe she’s a plagiarist. Anyway, Iowa Debris then comes up with an allegation about Andrew Garfield. And that sets everything into motion. Suddenly his career is in jeopardy, suddenly where is she coming from? Suddenly, Julia Roberts has to vouch for Andrew Garfield and her husband doesn’t believe him. That’s the dynamics in play here. And it’s all under the guise of a serious, like a guy telling you he’s sick of cancel culture. This is the vibe of the movie. And you know yet you’re in for a movie about cancel culture in the opening credits, when the font you see, the that says cast in alphabetical order is the same font that Woody Allen uses for his movies. Oh, so you are already in a shitty mood when this begins.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey It starts with a black card that says it all happened at yell which should make me tee.
Louis Virtel I continue to be shocked by that. I can’t believe you can just set this at Yale. You can set anything anywhere, right?
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Like you don’t need their permission? Well, due to my other institution I’m I’m
Louis Virtel Oh Ruby went to Harvard, everyone.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Anywhere. Yeah, you can say anything anywhere. They can do anything anywhere.
Louis Virtel They definitely didn’t film it there. I believe it was filmed in London.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey No, I mean it definitely there is a chilliness of Connecticut that I think they probably wanted to lose.
Louis Virtel By the way, if they called it a chilliness of Connecticut, I would have been in it was the ice storm.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, exactly. It was it is crazy that how worried white guys are still about getting canceled about this. It’s so amazing to me. The issues of like who to believe and who where does the buck stop and and does the professor that hears the story how much does she owe to her student? Sure, we have all those themes and then people are still not be believed, but to have the font of white fear.
Louis Virtel Yeah.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey From the top was just unnecessary to me. It doesn’t it didn’t feel current. And I don’t know if that’s the echo chamber we live in, but it really I I wanted more out of it. And I don’t know if I wanted it well no, I know I wanted it to be sluttier or messier or have a stance. Yeah. But the stancelessness of it really had me wanting.
Louis Virtel It had the feeling of one of those Republican guys at a desk being like, I’m just putting questions out there. And it’s like, first of all, we’re all aware of the questions.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey We know the questions, babe. Have a have an answer or have half an answer. There it was so obsessed with, you know, I o she’s black, but she’s gay.
Louis Virtel Yeah.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey But she’s rich, but she lies.
Louis Virtel And also and also she’s maybe an unconvincing liar.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah.
Louis Virtel Like when she voices the allegation, everything in her voice says, Can I ask this? I’m I’m sort of analyzing her acting choices. Now that’s another thing I want to get into. She’s up against like the movie heavyweights here. Like Julia Roberts was born to put some rage on the silver screen.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Oh, angry Julia Roberts, there is nothing better. I need I w I need this to be clear. I love a blonde, manicured Julia Roberts asking people if she’s just too much of a cold bitch. Like yes, do it more. Right. Leave the house.
Louis Virtel No, among the like kind of it girls we’ve had emerge over the past w forty years, Julia’s the only one who’s like, actually, I can also snap your neck.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey And I appreciate and that is a woman from Smyrna, Georgia.
Louis Virtel Correct. Yes. It’s the the Holly hunters. You know what I mean? Where it’s like something’s backwards about you.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I miss Patricia Clarkson. Yes, right. I do, I do feel like there are moments where you’re like, oh, I’m watching this star do something that we would not necessarily have gotten her to do or she would have wanted to do 20 years ago. Correct. That’s really fun. But on the other side of it, I did feel that she maybe was the only one who was attuned to the movie she was in.
Louis Virtel Because we had some kooky performances. Andrew Garfield, way more over the top than I’m used to him being. Now, in the movie, he’s like obviously very defensive and he has a beard because he’s in academia. Right. He’s not as cute as he usually is. No. That’s part of the drama. But like hi his overreactions and Michael Stahlberg being such a a little bitch. Michael Stahlberg.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey We get it, you like music. Baby, turn the record down. Right. Put your records off. It just got so
Louis Virtel We never heard Corinne’s follow up where she’s like, Actually I need to go to bed.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Actually take the airpads out. Yeah, Michael Slobard playing the, you know, caretaking husband. They did mention for one second that Julia’s character is back from a medical illness that was never described. Right.
Louis Virtel Yeah, she keeps like doubling over in intense pain and vomiting. And I thought it was oh she has like cancer or something. But it was that ulcers. Yes, just ulcers from stress.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Get it. I mean, I don’t want it. Don’t put it on me. But it could have had some sort of nuance to it of like she, yes, she’s someone fighting back for her place after having to step away from the ladder that she has watched build, blah, blah, blah. But it was just so insane her relationship with her husband. This pseudo this obvious flirtation with Andrew Garfield’s character, you know, swanning all over her. And they do make a point. And that is something that is true in a lot of a lot of positions of power, where there is someone who’s like, I just want fans. Yeah. And I collect fans. And that is Alma is Julie’s character, Alma.
Louis Virtel It must be said also that something a knock against this movie is in that regard, it feels like it was trying to take some of Tar’s shine, which is a movie about that, right? Like this is an academic woman who has fans around her and then sort of selects people to rise up in in status and then knocks others down once she’s done with them. Similarly, and there’s some of that here. But then it kind of gets away from that and it’s just about what is this woman gonna do now that she’s around somebody who’s accusing somebody else of something.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Which is I think something that is in theory relatable, right? You see a wrong, you were not in the middle of it. What are you gonna do you have a responsibility to do anything? Yeah. Or y are you allowed to say, I don’t really know. And I think unfortunately again, they did not help us towards what this creative team wanted to say about that. Right. It’s more that like, I’ll I don’t know. If y’all go to Yale, this could happen.
Louis Virtel I also feel like none of the characters had enough interesting specificity to make the story memorable. They all to me felt like archetypal characters in a word problem about cancel culture on the SAT.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey But they at the same time they were mix and matching affinity groups so that no one was like too in the clear, right? So you have Julia and her ulcers, but
Louis Virtel Always together.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey It’s always together. But she’s, you know, blonde and chain smokes. And then you have, you know, Andrew, he’s simping, but his shirt’s open and Io is black, which they were they only mentioned twice in the entire movie, which I think is incredibly Ivy League. But she is incredibly rich, but she’s a plagiarist. And and it it did feel like how do I take these archetypes of victim, predator, witness, and in theory make it more interesting. But instead I was sitting there thinking, Okay, so you don’t give this person enough power to say that they’re they have to be in the wrong. Yes. And it just I don’t know, nothing felt very or it didn’t feel organic to me.
Louis Virtel And also, this is a spoiler twist, it’s then revealed that at one point in her life Julia Roberts lied about somebody assaulting her. So it’s just like you said, it’s like, Oh, the woman who should be the moral authority here, she’s bad too.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey The end it’s like, No, it just has the wrong opinion about the time she was sexually assault. And they they have a moment at towards the end where it’s like, Did she lie about this? She’s like, No, I just had an affair with a grown man when I was fourteen.
Louis Virtel Yes. She keeps wording the situation in a way where the guilt should be on here. She’s like, He had no choice. I forced him to force him.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I forced him. I was a t a young teenage girl and I forced him. Yeah. And that is, I mean, that is one of the more interesting things I think was in the film of the woman on woman dynamic of how far I’ve come and how dare you want it to be easier for you from coming from behind me. Yeah. Or the things that we blame ourselves for and have no distance for even 30 years later. Right. I thought that was interesting and and kind of true. I I’ve run into that in real life, but it was a rare moment of stamping an opinion or a take on on just blur. You have Chloe Sauvigny playing a character out of truly shocking, where she doesn’t speak for an hour and then she starts complaining about someone stealing her yogurt. Yes. In the most insane styling we’ve ever had. Who is that character supposed to be? That is a professor archetype of a different time.
Louis Virtel Right. She seemed like the most loser gen ex person I’ve ever seen. She like Morrissey or the Smiths comes on. She goes, I can’t believe you could even play this. What were you born yesterday? What’s going on? We hear Michael Jackson every day.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey If you do the math on it, girl, you would have been in college in 97. Calm down. It wasn’t that deep. You would have been fine. There is, there is an antiquated lens on a lot of this in terms of like what the institution they’re trying to blow up.
Louis Virtel Yeah. Also the movie takes place largely in twenty nineteen. So it’s also this movie about do things like the Me Too movement have they swung us in this entirely different direction? Like is everything so extreme oriented that we’ve lost nuance in these conversations? But again, if you hadn’t had that conversation with somebody Bill Mar like in your life in twenty nineteen, you weren’t on the same planet I am. That’s the problem with it’s just not fresh. I did it it it kept asking questions. I’m like, yes, I remember the questions.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey And I want Julia Roberts to get close to a young woman’s face and say, not everything’s meant to be comfortable. I want that. But I’ve been told that the whole time. That’s not necessarily a new line for even for definitely for kids younger than us and for people our age. So it just I wish that everyone had taken a little longer to work on the on what they really wanted to say, because I think they could have said something interesting and it just didn’t land.
Louis Virtel Let’s talk about Luca for a second. Where do you stand on just his career? What’s your favorite Luca moment?
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Oh, it’s I don’t know. I do love Call Me by Your Name just because she and by she, Rheeqrheeq, loves to leave a theater weeping.
Louis Virtel Oh sure.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Just not weeping.
Louis Virtel And that’s a movie that will tell you how to weep ’cause you can see every mucous membrane just exploded on his face by the end of that.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey His face by the end of that. When I think about Timmy calling his mom to pick him up, I was like, Well, that’s a wrap on me. I’m good. But a bigger splash, I think, is like the m most interesting movie to me because there were these by Shane Arts. Looking great. Tilda, I have laryngitis, I can’t talk. Ray Fines dancing the Rolling Stones, perfect scene. Dakota Dakota Johnson, again, blonde. It was but there were some really interesting sexual dynamics in that. And and and I don’t know, I feel like that felt fresh enough a moment. And I think that that’s something he can really do.
Louis Virtel I have a real problem with when people call call me by your name boring. I mean I’m like it’s like well you clearly have never been gay because the longing takes that long.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey The longing oh my god, I
Louis Virtel And also, do you know what’s interesting about that movie? If you watch it again and just watch for Army Hammer, I would describe his performance as a bit stilted, which works for the character because he’s supposed to be this tryhard academic. But like it’s almost like stilted people are who you’re likelier to have a crush on because you’re like, why can’t they just you’re you’re figuring out their behavior? Like, why are they acting like that? And that’s part of the intrigue. And I think it makes it really believable.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey And in a in in that case, a family of Italian folk and expats whose one of their currencies is charm. Yeah. To have a wall with tiny shorts give you nothing. I am the dream. It’s the dream. I get it. I remember when that house from Call Me By Your Name went on sale and me and the poorest people I know being like if we put our twelve dollars together, we too can have a man not want us in a stone pool. And that was just the dream.
Louis Virtel I also want to say you mentioned her already, but Luca taught me to really appreciate Dakota Johnson. Yeah. I loved her in Susperia, a movie that I could barely sit through. And Tilda was also hilarious in that movie. But I just don’t need to see elbows bend back in time like that. Like, oh, you broke her knee. I can’t see I can’t go.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey No, I want to watch Zedea in sunglasses. Look at those boys move. And I think that’s okay. I think life is too much it’s too hard out there. And sometimes you just need to see more short shorts.
Louis Virtel Yeah. No, Challengers really was it too. That’s a movie that we really should rewatch every year. I wish there was a tennis holiday.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey You know I own it. I had to buy it for the party.
Louis Virtel Okay.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey We can watch it anytime, darling.
Louis Virtel Well, I’m coming over. I wore my tennis outfit to that party. I was there. All right. So what did you think of after the hunt? Put it in the comments and just be correct. That’s my only ask. We’ll be right back with the lovely Michelle Wolf.
[AD] .
Louis Virtel This week’s guest is hilarious, both in front of and behind the camera. She’s written for Late Night with Seth Myers, The Daily Show with Trevor Noah, and her own talk show, The Break. She also hosted one of the most memorable White House correspondence dinner in decades, and now she’s back with a new stand-up special called The Well, currently streaming on Netflix. Please welcome to Keep It, Michelle Wolf.
Michelle Wolf Hi, hello, thank you for having me.
Louis Virtel And you are broadcasting to us live from Barcelona. And not only is your new special about motherhood, you are mothering right now. I can hear mothering occurring in the very room you’re in.
Michelle Wolf There’s so much happening at the moment. I have a brand new baby. My toddler just got home. I’m slightly discombobulated. But you know what? If you hear a little person in the background, that is one of my babies.
Louis Virtel It’s nice to know you weren’t making that up for the special.
Michelle Wolf Yeah, I thought about it.
Louis Virtel It felt like first person experience. I was trying to you know, it wasn’t just fanfiction or something.
Michelle Wolf I thought maybe I’d really go full in for the experience, you know. I really wanted to relate to other mothers.
Louis Virtel Now let’s talk about first of all you being in Barcelona and performing there regularly now. Just tell me what is that like? Is that much different than working here?
Michelle Wolf I mean, it’s it’s different and it’s the same, you know, like there’s a really international audience. You get people from all over Europe, you get, you know, people from Latin America, South America, you get other Americans, British, like it all over the globe. It’s a really international audience. So I feel like you know, you travel all over the States to kind of test out your material. And here you you have this huge sample size already. But it is a little bit harder sometimes for the jokes to relate, especially if they’re like two in the weeds kind of American. I love the vibe of the stand-up scene here. It feels like kind of the vibe of when I was coming up in New York, which is very like people are excited about comedy, they’re working really hard, they’re coming up with really creative and fun things. And yeah, so it’s like a really it’s a newer comedy scene here, but it’s really fun to be part of.
Louis Virtel Did you ever have any designs to be living in this part of the world though? Like are you shocked to be in Barcelona?
Michelle Wolf I mean, if I would have told my like middle school or high school self that I would be living in Europe, I would have been like, oh my God, did you win the lottery? What happened? You know, ’cause I always I loved I I loved the idea of Europe. I didn’t really travel. I didn’t travel outside of the States until I was in college. And the first time I traveled outside of the States was I went to Spain. And I remember being like, Oh, it was so beautiful. The windows, the doors, the s the old streets, you know, we were in Pamplona. I did the Camino de Santiago. So my first taste of Europe was Spain. So it’s really it’s nice to kind of be back here. Not semi-permanently, I guess. I don’t know.
Louis Virtel Now, watching your new special, The Well, I noticed that in that special you have one child, but you now have two children. And it appears like when you do a Netflix special, you have to sort of plan for it to be released a lot later. Does that make it difficult to sort of choose the material to put in the special?
Michelle Wolf Well, this one I recorded it in November of 2023. And I I didn’t know what I wanted to do with it. I would have loved to put it out later that year or, you know, early the the following next year, but I just I wasn’t sure if I wanted to put it on Netflix, if I wanted to do YouTube, if I wanted to kind of, you know, see if there was another streaming option. So I just held on to it. And then I ended up taping another special in November of 2024. So I have one more special after this that I’ve already taped. Luckily enough, most of the problems in the world are not solved yet. I found a number of 2023. Yeah. And in fact, most have probably gotten worse. So I feel like it’s still really timely. And then motherhood is just a timeless, unrelenting escapade.
Louis Virtel What I know most about motherhood, which by the way is very little, I do feel like I have learned from watching stand up. And like, you know, just like growing up, like that’s like a like a ton of the material I was obsessed with. People were talking about the bewildering experience of being a parent. Were there any stand ups before you that influenced this era of your comedy?
Michelle Wolf You know, I feel like it’s kind of newer to talk honestly about motherhood on stage. There’s some stuff in the past where it’s kind of mentioned briefly, but to talk honestly about it is like, you know, of course, like Ali Wong was the first one to like really be very pregnant on stage. And then, you know, you have really good British comedians like Sarah Pascal and Katherine Ryan, who very openly talk about, you know, having kids, what that’s like. And I think there’s like a real to me, I’ve I I really love hearing about honest experiences, not just like, you know, either like the waka waka, you know, like, but Trump kind of jokes about motherhood, but really like the the vulnerable ones where it’s like, what really happened? It was it embarrassing for you? Was it hard? Did you like it? Did you dislike it? And as someone who didn’t really talk about my personal life that much, yeah, it’s allowed me to kind of open up and and share a bit of my life that I’ve never really delved into before.
Louis Virtel Now, I think if you primarily as a stand-up, but you also are a veteran of these late night comedy shows. I’m a writer for Jimmy Kimmel. Do you have fond memories of writing for that format? Cause to me it’s like the only comedy job you’ll ever have that almost feels like writing for a newspaper. Like you’re up every day, you have a deadline to hit, the paper goes to bed at a certain hour, has to go out, and there’s a real schedule to it. Do you miss anything about that world?
Michelle Wolf I mean, it is, as you know, a a very much a hamster wheel. What it really taught me was that like no matter what mood you’re in, you have to write. You have to produce, you have to write these jokes. And that made me such a better writer. Because I think a lot of times as like creative people, we kind of wait to be in a good mood to do something. This taught me how to write when I was in a bad mood or like didn’t feel well. Or, you know, like it was a job. You have to get it done. There is a deadline. The show tapes at 5 30 or whatever time, you know, your show tapes at. And so I’m really grateful for that. And I did, you know, it’s fun to make silly topical jokes, you know, like or or I don’t know, not even silly jokes about things that are happening right now that you wouldn’t necessarily be able to put in your stand up because it’s not gonna make sense in, you know, even next week, let alone, you know, a couple months from now. So I I really love doing that as well. But I worked with really cool people. So I there is a lot I miss about it. But I do like not having to be on that kind of schedule.
Louis Virtel We we have to talk about this special in particular because you get into one of my favorite topics, period, in any milieu, and that is Martha Stewart.
Michelle Wolf Oh my gosh, yes.
Louis Virtel I in my opinion, she is never discussed enough, even during the heyday when we were discussing her all the time, because she’s so one of a kind, as a personality and as a producer of things.
Michelle Wolf She literally put out this documentary, like, what was it, just last year? Right. And I feel like she’s still not talked about enough. Like, people should have seen that documentary and been like, this woman, like, she’s beyond. Like, I absolutely love her. I I will defend until my dying day that I don’t know her personally, but whatever people called her a bitch, blah, blah, blah. This is a woman who knows how to do things. She knows how to do things and she knows how to do them well. So you better do them as well as she does. And that does not make you a bitch. That makes you very good at what you do. And you’re running a business and you you need to be precise. I love her. I think she’s amazing. And I also don’t think she should have gone to jail.
Louis Virtel Oh, there’s that too. I was blown away to learn that she would have only lost like forty thousand dollars had she not done the thing that landed her in jail. It’s like forty thousand dollars, like Martha like spends that whatever, going to the store.
Michelle Wolf Yeah, she spends that on like ostriches or something. You know, like she’s like and her Instagram is one of my favorite things ever. If you go into like, she writes, she definitely writes most of her own Instagram posts. And they’re like, some of them are very bird specific or very plant specific. And you’re just like, she’s a nerd for this stuff. Yes. She absolutely loves her farm. She loves her, you know, her guinea fowl. She knows all about flowers and plants and what to do and how to. It’s just, she’s an expert. And we don’t treat her like an expert. We treat her like some sort of like, I don’t know, like influencer. And I’m like, she’s not an influencer. She’s very, very good at this.
Louis Virtel You that you actually kind of get into this in the special where you talk about it’s not appreciated that she’s like a connoisseur and that like the definition of whom we consider authorities on things, like via social media and stuff, is really changing because nobody actually knows anything. Like people just pretend to know things. Does that disturb you? Like, does social media and who you see on it depress you?
Michelle Wolf Constantly on a daily basis. It’s the devil that we all, you know, we know, we love, we hate, you know, like it’s a a medium you have to use, you know. We all have to have social media, we all have to have podcasts, we all have to, you know, post things that make daddy algorithm happy, you know? I think there’s a lot of people on social media who aren’t, you know, they’re making a living, and you can’t hate on people for that necessarily, you know, like it’s whatever how you make your money is how you make your money, and and and I’m I’m I’m proud of you on some level. But I really do think it’s kind of and I think this is purposeful, dumbed down what we think is entertainment. And there’s some really great comedy shows. Like I love Veeep. Veeps my favorite show ever. And that’s a really good show. It’s well written. There’s so many jokes. It’s I think it’s a phenomenal show. That takes time, that takes craft, that takes talent. Then there’s a lot of people on social media that are like, look, I’m throwing everything in my pantry into a pan. And then I’m gonna eat that. You know, and you’re like, what are we showing? Why am I consuming this? Why am I scrolling through and looking at all these things that I don’t like or find entertaining and sometimes find literally disgusting.
Louis Virtel Speaking of people making money, you recently just turned down the Riyadh Comedy Festival. What has been your takeaway from this whole experience and how people are seemingly defensive about being a part of it? About the I I call the indecent proposal to join it. What’s been your takeaway?
Michelle Wolf I’m a bit of two minds on this, where it’s like, well, I didn’t have to make a decision. You know, like I didn’t have to like morally be like, well, you know, should I or shouldn’t I? I was about to have a baby. I couldn’t go, right? But I do think like there’s a version where it’s like you could decide to go and then just be like, yeah, the government is paying for this. I’m hoping to say some stuff that people might not normally get to hear over there. Or you could argue that, especially like people of color, black people in America, they don’t have really freedoms or rights that everyone else necessarily has in America, even though they should on paper. In practice, they don’t. And they’re like, well, you know, is it safer for me to say things there, or is it safer to say for me to say things here? I don’t know. I don’t mind that people win. I don’t. I really don’t. Especially like Jessica Kirsten, she was like, I’m a lesbian. You have to let me be an like openly lesbian. I have to be able to talk about this on stage. And they said yes. And I think that’s a really interesting thing to be able to do in Saudi Arabia. I’m sure there’s some people that have never gotten to hear any of those things before. And who knows? Maybe it’ll change some stuff. Maybe it won’t. But kind of think it’s worth a shot.
Louis Virtel My last question for you is obviously you had a very memorable stint hosting the White House correspondence dinner. Lots of conversation followed that, but do you have a favorite experience from literally just being in that room? Like something that you couldn’t have predicted happening that happened.
Michelle Wolf It’s not a good favorite, but it is a favorite where you know everyone’s having dinner, kind of milling around, getting seated. And Kellyanne Conway and Jeff Zucker. They saw each other from across the room. And Kellyanne Conway was always kind of the villain on CNN. She was always saying stuff that the that the other like panel hosts were like, I can’t believe she’d say, you know, like making a big thing about it. And Jeff Zucker and Kellyanne Conway see each other from either side of the room. There, Jeff’s like, Kellyanne, she’s like, Jeff. And they like walk towards each other and embrace each other. And I was like, oh, you guys are friends, and this is entertainment. Like what we are considering news is entertainment for you guys. And like I knew logically that was happening. That’s kind of what I based what I was talking about on, and how the media’s essentially betrayed us as you know, in in terms of news. But to see it right in front of me like that, I was like, this is so corrupt. This is so bad. Like, and it’s all at the sake of us. You know, the citizens, the people who like genuinely want information. I understand they need clicks, whatever, blah, blah, blah. But like, news should not be entertainment. It should just be information.
Louis Virtel It really does feel like a scene out of like the movie Network or something, you know, just Yeah, just Like on the nose. Can you believe it? They’re hugging. Yeah.
Michelle Wolf It which is by far, I think, one of my favorite movies ever and so relevant. Made in the seventies and so, so relevant to today.
Louis Virtel Oh God. Also just imagine hugging Kellyanne anyway, no matter who you are. That’s something we should all be able to get behind.
Michelle Wolf It’s like it’s like hugging a bag of bones that still have this evil spirit attached, you know?
Louis Virtel Happy Halloween. Yes. Yeah. Michelle, thank you so much for being here. It’s such a pleasure talking to you. And the new special is so funny. Thank you to Michelle Wolf. We’ll be right back with more Keep It.
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Louis Virtel But were there any questions that you were hoping this documentary would answer?
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I don’t know, maybe his like beard oil regimen something like that. I think what’s really interesting, what was really interesting to me watching this, other than the fact that of course it found me and I immediately had to dive in, was I was thinking of when I met Martin Scorsese. Like for me, he it was around gangs of New York. Okay. There were, of course, thank you, TNT for playing Goodfellas and and other p movies from the past. But like seeing this person on TV publicizing his movie, I was like, that seems like a nice someone’s nice dad. Yeah. And he even talks about it at the time in an interview with Kitty Kerric around, he’s like, I don’t know how you sell a picture anymore. I guess going on TV to show you how friendly I am. And he did it really well. He’s the actor on Shock Tale. He does bits with Tina and Amy from the from the audience at the globes. But to actually step back and look at like what built this man, what landed him there was fascinating. And I wasn’t looking for it, but I for where I am right now in my life was really, really interesting. And I I felt really connected to it.
Louis Virtel When we were putting this episode together though, one of the things you said was you’re like, Oh of course I’m watching that. Now why of course? Have you long been a fan of his movies or no?
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Oh yeah, I mean I’m a big fan of gangster movies, movies that deal with pain and spirituality, little guys big glasses. I lot of little people in his movies, lot of attitude. Lotta lot of, you know, little pizzazz. Give him give him the rats. I think
Louis Virtel That’s how you describe Joe Joe Pasha. Go ahead.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Ooh, baby. But no, I also am deeply under the spell of the documentary industrial complex that we’re going to kind of concur also, which is like I think is more the thing. I think that we are living in this time where we’re trying to review moments of scandal or history immediately. And for this one, of course, because of the topic, it was six hours long. Yeah. And you had to really like let it seep into you. And I had a, I mean, I just had a really great time because he makes beautiful pieces and has been at at turning points of debate in terms of what art is and what we’re supposed to put forward and what is commendable versus what is debaucherous or vile in a really potent way, far from what we were just talking about, with without taking having a take. This man has had a lot of opinions.
Louis Virtel Now, all celebrity memoirs, biopics, life, the things that cover a celebrity’s entire life. I will say a problem for me, generally speaking, is I always think the moment before they emerge as a preeminent so-and-so is the most interesting. Like I love in the Mariah memoir when she’s doing backup for Brenda K-Star and Vision of Love is about six months away. I want to know about that moment where it’s like all crystallizing, because then after that, if you’re like you or me, we already know their careers. You know what I mean? Like for me, this was a fun documentary to watch, but a lot of it felt like a cursory overview of all of the movies he’s made. You know, it’s like, I remember Goodfellas. I remember The King of Comedy or Last Temptation of Christ or whatever. I don’t know that I had much to learn from a three-minute re-evaluation of all those movies. That said, I love realizing that, you know, when he made Mean Streets, which was probably his breakout as in terms of establishing who Martin Scorsese is, realizing that a lot of what made that movie amazing and memorable and urgent in all of its carnage and the way the dialog overlapped and who the characters were is he’s just stealing from his own childhood. He’s like, I was stuck with asthma inside, watching these people out in the streets be violent with each other, have these kind of relationships, and he basically just transferred that to the big screen, and we all saw what he saw finally.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Well, at its essence, this docuseries is an ode to the indoor kid. Yes. And as one, thank you. I love to be seen. But also I think that is the fascinating thing, the authenticity of the way those characters spoke and moved through spaces. You’re like, oh, oh, that’s who he was exposed to. That was of his uncle. Those were the people that filled the window panes that he had to watch from afar. Yeah. And it is also was interesting to me as someone who is a writer to think about how those are established worlds that we are allowed to see. But I question whether or not I can tell stories better from my life or other people whose lives have not already been gold-gilded by the academy. I thought that was like pretty fascinating. But for him, that wasn’t seen yet. Right. He had to go put pencil to page with, you know, Pelegia and Schrader and other people to get to the truth of what those lives were like.
Louis Virtel Yes. Here’s one problem I had with the mythologizing of Martin Scorsese. And I wanna say I’ve seen all of his movies. I find almost all of them enjoyable. Even silence, which I thought was had its moment.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey And I think y I’m not gonna take a moment for silence with that. You can just keep on. Okay, move it.
Louis Virtel If there was a female director who made movies and 80 to 90% of the cast were women, in talking about this woman, we would say, What an important filmmaker for women. Yeah. We would be like, what an important woman’s movie director. There is not a single moment in this movie where anybody says he is the definitive men director. These are movies about men. We go immediately to these are movies about the human consciousness. These are guild worlds. Yes. And that was spirituality. It’s 12 angry men. It’s men being men around other men. Yes. And sometimes a woman gets caught in the crosshairs. There are rare exceptions, like if I’m thinking of Sandra Bernhard and The King of Comedy. Now that’s a rare wack-a-doo performance.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey And you know she wasn’t keeping her mouth shut. So there you go.
Louis Virtel No ding. But I thought it was telling when they actually talk about one of the few movies he ever made about a woman, Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore, which Ellen Burston brought to him and he didn’t want to do it because he said, quote, I don’t understand women. It’s like how can I talk about women? Yes.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yes. And it was but also they were quick with it to be like I know you guys to say I don’t do movies about women. And it’s
Louis Virtel And it’s it’s true. Right. And not that I demand you make bad movies about women, but it’s just can someone just say this is a movie maker who makes movies about men?
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Exactly. And I think it’s like why I’m not asking for your lens on my experience, honestly. Because especially as the as the series goes on, his relationships with women and the way he views them as respectfully objects that are too far away for him to c control or contain. I don’t necessarily need what he thinks the inner workings of that person is. And you do see, you know, over time when he gets to casino with Sharon Stone and she she makes a funny anecdote, but a true anecdote about having to chase him down to get him to pay attention to her.
Louis Virtel Right, ’cause he’s spending all his time with Robert De Niro and Joe Pesci on that set.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey And his answer to that was, well, Bob and Joe take a lot of energy. Okay, but you have a third star there, and she is is the one who the finance people are calling to double check that they should keep funding your movie. Yeah. Maybe give that shine a little bit of attention as well. But yeah, I mean, I have this conversation about a lot of male directors, a lot of white directors, and it’s the Mike White, you know, I don’t necessarily need to see Black Lotus.
Louis Virtel Yeah, right.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I don’t wanna hear what he has to say.
Louis Virtel Well now I’m thinking about it, but okay.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Now now thinking about it, we all gonna DR and have a good time. But there is I
Louis Virtel I’m not sure.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I’ve had a moment of like acceptance that I would rather hear certain stories from people who have a little bit of, you know, skin and uterus in the game. Yeah. But there it is very clear that he is aware of that reputation. And whether or not he loves the actors, the female actors on his sets, I don’t deny that, but whether or not he cares to look at their stories in a way beyond showing Cameron Diaz with all of the trinkets around her bosom, I don’t know.
Louis Virtel Right. No, I I I have said this before about Martin Scorsese, but it is a little telling to me that he works with the same men again and again. And there’s almost never been a woman in more than one of his movies. I believe Barbara Hershey is in Boxcar Bertha and in The Last Temptation of Christ, but that’s never Kate Blanchett, never Ellen Burston, never you know, Liza Minelli. And also it must be said, a lot of these women in all these movies get knocked in the face.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I mean yeah, I think he talks about that when the improved scene that they wrote the night before for Wolf of Wall Street with Margot Robbie. And you know, there’s different moments of domestic violence in all in most of his movies, th but that feels true to those men’s stories.
Louis Virtel Namely, yes, whatever his name is, Jordan Belfort, is that right? Yeah.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey It’s he knocks her out. There’s it’s in Raging Bulb, which, you know, makes sense to that character. In trying to tr create a full portrait of what these men’s lives look like, it is that their insecurity makes them hurt the women in their lives.
Louis Virtel Correct. Yes. Was there any particular movie you were psyched to revisit? I will say I was blown away to see how fucking young Leo looked in the aviator.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Oh yeah. Kate looking I remember the time We needed more Kate.
Louis Virtel We needed more cake. She’s interviewed in the documentary for two seconds.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey You need more crap. I mean, you see her standing with a a plum when he w finally wins the award. But I don’t know. I almost texted you last night and be like, is my ass about to watch Gangs in New York? I just didn’t have the four hours. Like and that’s the thing. You do have to commit to it. I I I don’t know. I feel like I need to go and do Mean Streets again, which I haven’t done in a really long time. I haven’t done Raging Bowl in a long time, but that’s like a diff that’s a Thursday. That’s definitely not like a Monday night.
Louis Virtel Pretty girl like.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey It’s pretty grueling. I do I am someone who watches the departed probably every other year.
Louis Virtel That’s so interesting. That’s one of the rare movies I can think of where to me the worst performance got nominated. Mark Wahlberg. I just feel like he’s giving you a huge like he he’s like hi his his actions are so big, it’s like he’s the mascot of a baseball team.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I don’t know. Have you ever been in in like outside Fedway where the assholes try to be like, Oh, you don’t want to fucking be a?
Louis Virtel Rheeqrheeq? No.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Oh you’ve been free.
Louis Virtel Yes.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey It’s not fun.
Louis Virtel Okay.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey But It’s very realistic.
Louis Virtel Yeah. You chose where you went to college.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I know. But it is there was that is one of those things where I was close enough to that ecosystem where I was like, oh no, Martin Sheen sounded pretty good. Yeah. Everyone, I those guys, I I like a I like a old white guy in a bar. And those guys felt very real. And that’s something, again, that felt very contemporary for him, too. Yeah. After like a run of, you know, Aviator and Gangs of New York and Age of Innocence, it’s like he was like, nope, everybody can have cell phones. Yeah. Which must have been a little kooky for him.
Louis Virtel I’m sure, yes. I the movie also made a point of saying that lots of actresses have been nominated for Oscars for his movie. I they set a record amount that feels like it’s impossible given Woody Allen. I’ll do the research eventually. But who’s your favorite woman in a Martin Scrusese movie?
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I mean, I would say it has to be Kate Blanchett as Catherine.
Louis Virtel Yeah. I mean I would describe that as a big swing, literally with a golf club.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I think I don’t know. I really there is something and they they focus in on that scene where she’s trying to get him to come out of the screening room when
Louis Virtel He’s become a reckless.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, when Howard Hoos is deciding that peeing in bottles is the only way forward. And I think that Kay Planchet played it so beautifully. And like for a and yeah, I just picked that out of the air, but I think that for a filmography of large, you know, Margot in the little skirt and Catherine Moriarty getting beat up, to have that amount of nuance in a female performance is not often something that he allows them to have.
Louis Virtel Yes, that’s true.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey But then yeah, other than that it’s Lorraine Broccco in Godfellas.
Louis Virtel Oof, she is awesome in that movie.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey But I’m Dr. Melfi in Talenda.
Louis Virtel Yeah. Oh, are you really Are you a Sopranos girl?
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah.
Louis Virtel I’m obsessed with h his mom in that show, Nancy Marchand.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Its I think, I was talking to our friend Sam Garson and we were talking about, after Diane passed away. I was doing Godfather and I was just losing it like I’m quoting these movies in order, thats strange, and he was like that makes sense for you. I do like these boy muscular, I’m sad movies. And I think that is part of the reason why I like seeing the the Mount Rushmore of Francis and Marty and all of them together and the fact that they were obviously doing a lot of drugs in the h in the hills is the same idea.
Louis Virtel I was very interested in the amount of times he almost died. And by the way, that actually gets into my main criticism of this docuseries, whereas so a a lot of this movie is just about interviewing Martin Scorsese and asking about the various eras he was a part of. But I do feel like he has sort of told this story to himself and other people so many times that his mythology felt like he hi his life, he had already storyboarded his life, and we were just being let in on that storyboard.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey There’s no way anything that he did not want us to see is in it, of course. Yeah. You know, like I think there are some comedic n needle drops when you cut to his editor.
Louis Virtel Oh Thomas Shoemaker, which we should get into. She was fabulous in this movie.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey She’s my favorite part of any retrospective with Marty because she refuses to leave her computer setup.
Louis Virtel No, she’s like, Here I am in the bag.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey And she’s like, I have to be at my bay. I have to be ready to show you the shot. Yeah. And I’m like, thank you, girl. Like, let’s do a in real-time bibliography, filmography. So there are some moments of like, I don’t know if he’s telling the exact truth on that one. But even that is a Henry Hill look away comedic pop. There, there are these men who have crafted their lives and crafted the stories, and now he is a father in his daughter’s lives. And now he has come back to saying that he isn’t a lapse Catholic, he is someone of s of faith. So we’re looking back at the the crunchier edges with a a wider lens through the window.
Louis Virtel It was interesting when she was asked, Does Martin’s Corsesi have a problem with women? She goes, You’ll have to ask him that. Yeah. And then somebody else goes, Oh yeah, once upon a time around the office he would have a temper. And then they got away from that really quickly too.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Well Isabella Rossellini
Louis Virtel Who was married to Martin Scorsese, we should say.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey M also I mentioned this to Louis earlier. My favorite thing with these docs, especially about men, it’s to see which of their exes show up to the shoot. Yeah. And he had two. There were he’s been married a lot of times.
Louis Virtel Which is less than fifty percent.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Exactly. And the but you know, is Mel Rosario’s like, of course I’ll talk. I’ll talk about it. Marty. She was like, he was very violent, not towards me, not physically, but he was he could tear up a room. And how a friend of his video taped him in a rage. And then he looked back at it. And he had never he was like, I didn’t know I looked like that. And it’s also that’s a perfect story for this person. I know.
Louis Virtel It wasn’t until I was directed that I knew
Rheeqrheeq Chainey It wasn’t until my performance was so moving that I had to change my life. But there is
Louis Virtel I was the Ray Leona.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I have been giving these these these casting notes, these like I love watching him tr try so hard not to give a line reading. Yeah. Also in some of the footage where he’s like moving them through like maybe you say it like this. But that is yeah, this person had an anger issue and it I looked at the length his f now head of his film society, but his former assistant worked for him. It’s only been thirteen years or fourteen years since she said that he’s used to really be a tough guy to be around. Yeah. But you know, branding is everything.
Louis Virtel I think this is also the joy of watching a docuseries like that. Like they did tell us one story, but you and I are sitting here here being like, We actually found the real story in the margin.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey My search history is just scorsese down right now. Because it that is the most fun part for me when I watch these types of documentaries where I’m like, Okay, I guess I’m learn about semin the seminary. I guess I’m gonna figure out what factory was next to that graveyard.
Louis Virtel I grew up Catholic and he really does make you think you’re missing out on some grandeur. But I’m telling you, it’s like old guys named exactly Tom.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey It’s just a lot of incense.
Louis Virtel Yeah. I I’ve spent some time in a pew. It’s too much for me. Yeah, no. I have four of the seven sacraments, I think.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey And I know what’s going on. What are you doing with the other three? Ever gonna get it?
Louis Virtel Last Rights, we’ll see. We’ll see if we do it. What did you think of Mr. Scorsese? Please enlighten us. And and by the way, if you haven’t seen The King of Comedy, which remains my favorite of his, if you haven’t met fifty Rupert Pupkins in this age of social media, then we’re not living the same life. That continues to be the most prescient movie he ever made.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey If you had a hard take on Joker Two, you had to say
Louis Virtel Or a soft take.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey A soft take if you were typing on threads, let us know.
Louis Virtel Yeah, so Stephanie Germanata, if you have any comments, throw them down. We’ll be right back with Keep It. And we’re back with the saltiest part of the episode. It’s keep it. Rheeqrheeq, what are you angry, angsty yourself about?
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I’m plucked about my keep it this week is to the Skims Merkin thong that was sold out in ours last week. Yes, Louis, I will explain to what that is.
Louis Virtel I was gonna say, a shiver ran through all of my remaining body parts that function.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey On the website, they described it as a faux hair micro string thong. I am so tired. I it’s not just the fact that this invaded my TikTok algorithm, which is mostly Married at First Sight UK and Australian women trying to recover from bad BBLs. I’m so confused how we are rebranding little little bushwigs as something that children need to go out and buy immediately. It’s fascinating. Kim was at the Academy Gala this weekend and she said that was just a fun idea I had. There was a shoot, and someone wanted to like have hair down there once. And I was like, couldn’t this be easy and make it a th-Kimberly, children are dying. Still, they remain dying. And like, not to be the annoying person, but yes, Mercins were invented in the 1950s. Pros have been using it since the 16th century. This isn’t a new concept. And I’m no shade to anyone who is lasered and doesn’t feel like doing a full install. But why are we pretending that this is a new thing that you’re bringing to like the fashion space? When like Maison Marjella did it last year on the Rudway. Stop pretending it’s new and just say that it’s accessible. That’s all it is. It’s the cerulean monolog with I don’t know, bush. Got it. Anyway, that’s why keep it for the week.
Louis Virtel It also just feels like everything about Kim Kardashian is break the internet oriented, like somebody’s shocked, or else it didn’t happen.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Exactly. And like, look, I am unfortunately canonically publicly on that woman’s side because of the last man she was married. I don’t have the agida towards them that a lot of people do. But there is this, like, when they tried to make cornrows into boxer braids in in 2019 when she was launching the brand, they tried to copyright kimono as the name of the brand. That’s too bad. And everyone had a bit of a reaction to that one.
Louis Virtel As we all know, those that’s Madonna’s thing.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Exactly. Oh God. Yeah. But there was there is this like think tank in Calabasas vibe of like, you know what, we’re about to, we’re just about to shock ’em. Like, mama, no, you can just go get a bang unit and just handle that yourself. And so there I think that’s it’s not even the product, it’s the fake innovation that really bothers me because we’re not, especially in fashion, especially in a world right now where everyone is like seeing, oh, YSL did this two seasons ago. And so now it’s at Zara, now it’s at ASOS, now it’s at Shein. That’s the way that the industry works. But let’s not pretend that we’re really like breaking the mold or busting the bush. It just bothers me.
Louis Virtel I feel like you’re bearing the lead here. How do you feel that she is the lead of a show in which people like Sarah Paulson and Glenn Close are
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Here’s the thing, I think synergy is happening. I think we’re doing vertical integration in a way that’s really insane. I think she has a deal at Hulu. It is a Fox show. Business be business. And it’s like, am I gonna watch every episode? Sure. You will get a text the next morning at seven AM.
Louis Virtel I can’t get over that. It’s called All’s Fair. It’s so airport book.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Oh, spheres, love and horror. You’re like yes. Sarah Polson, she’s in a a country brown bob and it’s angled. Like
Louis Virtel Can you believe it?
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I love it. This is Kim’s second show, I think, at this point.
Louis Virtel Yeah, she did American.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, she had an American horror story season that I couldn’t really get into, but like
Louis Virtel That’s the the theme of most of them.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Exactly, but there is a freedom. I think there must be a freedom to these actresses of award and nominated fame all around them. Tiana Taylor about to do an Oscar run immediately after this premieres, where, like, yeah, you’re you’re one of your lead girls isn’t that experienced. You can have a little bit more fun. It’s like when burlesque came out and Christina Aguilera said that share through takes so that she can get extra ones. Sure. I think I think the generosity of Spirit and Titty from Nisi Nash, it probably was fun. And I’m gonna watch the Kardashian episode where they go to Chris’s house because why are those people that why is Glay close at Chris Jenner’s house? I don’t know, but I’m gonna have a ball watching it.
Louis Virtel Glenn Close also getting pretty good at social media recently, but this actually gets into my keep it, which is I am really worried about this Oscar season. It feels like there are three good movies. I saw one battle after another, which you just referenced. Tiana is great in it. As we know, she should have been in literally 15 more minutes of that movie, and I would have been thrilled. Yeah. The performances in that movie are great. Great action movie. I don’t know that it’s delivering the sort of theme heft that I want from a movie that wins the best picture Oscar, but it is nonetheless very entertaining and very well done. Otherwise, I saw Marty Supreme with
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Oh, you saw it already.
Louis Virtel With Timothy Shellman. Really good.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey How’s Gwen?
Louis Virtel Give her 15 more minutes. She I want another scene from her, two more scenes.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey But she had to go goop.
Louis Virtel Right. And by the way, as I said last week, watch me postmates that every day. It is good.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey It’s so good.
Louis Virtel It’s good food.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey That ghost kitchen slaps.
Louis Virtel But otherwise, like begonia, like.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey You have Hamnet coming.
Louis Virtel Ham but like that’s it. It feels like Hamnet is the only thing I’m really looking forward to. And sentimental value.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Our whole all of our hopes on Hamnet at this point. Which be also because it feels like a classic shape of a race. You have a Shakespeare esque story.
Louis Virtel Right, there’s there there should be one throwback movie.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Exactly. And one that has the face of a man who likes to run away from women in parks. Love you, baby.
Louis Virtel And go right to Sweet Cream.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I said this affectionately to her. I want her publicist to bring it out. I want I wanna see the machine getting her as far as possible because why not? That is a quality. But yeah, I it is tough, especially knowing that Benicio came to set and came up with that whole sequence with them.
Louis Virtel Oh right. Well also, by the way, I want to say about Regina Hall. Following you last year when fucking Isabella Rossellini got that run for again turning on a printer.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey And she made those copies. Yes. And she gave those men those copies.
Louis Virtel Right. And she said here are the copies and now I’m gonna leave the movie.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I loved it. She was like a Regina.
Louis Virtel Regina did do more than that.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Exactly. Sha Isabella was like, This is men’s business and I’m gonna get this now and roll. Regita was like, I was once what tried to be a nun. I’m gonna visit these black nuns and maybe cry in a in the back of a car.
Louis Virtel A lot of the times the women who get nominated are the one woman who stand between the men. And do you know who that’s a quote of? No. Meryl Streep talking about her role in the Deer Hunter. And I often wonder if that’s why she was never in a Martin Scorsese movie because she doesn’t want to be the one woman standing between the men.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey And that is a longer conversation we will have just after this.
Louis Virtel I was gonna say Rheeqrheeq is a Merrill stan. Wait, before I let you go, how are you feeling about the possibility of Devil Wars Prada two? About where it’s going.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I think that not everything I wish for needs to happen. Sure. But I hope it goes great. I do worry. I mean, I don’t I thank you to everyone who knows me who has sent me every press release about it. I I don’t know. Also, I am nervous that they haven’t released the la a real log line yet. So we are kind of just working off of vibes. But I love Emily Blunt. I think Annie, she’s tripping in the street in a coat. Yep. As she should be. As she should. Stanley’s still got that ring on. It’ll be, I will of course be seated, but I of course I worry that the fact that my LLC is named after the movie will become a problem.
Louis Virtel Oh, I see. I continued to support Meryl doing anything in the cinematic arts because as you know, right now she’s a television star.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey A streaming television star with two little brains acting in, I want to say Law and Order New Zealand is her story arc right now. But you know, the love of a funny man. She loves to be around funny men.
Louis Virtel Meryl won that Emmy for Holocaust in the seventies and then she followed up with Angels in America for kicks. I do not need any more television arts for her.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey I want it, babe. I want her to I don’t know, play someone’s grandmother on a free form is freeform still around? We’ll see. Yeah. She might know.
Louis Virtel Wow. C and y you think she would do that because of her Marty Supreme?
Rheeqrheeq Chainey She’s a Marty Supreme, baby.
Louis Virtel Martin Short, if you’re the reason this is all happening, just know I’m on deal.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Oh, is she still playing Joni Mitchell? I don’t know.
Louis Virtel Yeah, Cameron Crow, I know he was hitting that up for a while.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey And I think she’s staying as close to her apartment as possible.
Louis Virtel Dang, how very barber.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Mm-hmm.
Louis Virtel Rheeqrheeq, thank you for being here.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey It’s so fun to be back. Thank you for having me.
Louis Virtel It’s so great that you’re gonna leave this room and then just be on a text thread with me where you’re stuck.
Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, I’ll be like, guys, I just did it. It was fun. This was really cool.
Louis Virtel Thank you to Michelle Wolf for joining us today. Thank you to Martin Scorsese for giving us that crazy Sander Bernhard role. I still think about it. And we’ll see you next week on Keep It. Don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. You can also subscribe to Keep It on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review. Keep it is a Crooked Media production. Our producer is Bill McGrath. Our associate producer is Kennedy Hill, and our executive producers are Louis Virtel, Ira Madison III, and Kendra James. Our digital team is Delon Villanueva, Claudia Sheng, and Rachel Gajewski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Jarek Centenno. Thank you to David Toles, Kyle Seglin, and Charlotte Landes for production support every week. Our head of production is Matt DeGroot. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.
