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July 06, 2023
Pod Save the UK
Does Rishi Sunak give a sh*t about the climate?

In This Episode

Does Rishi Sunak care about the climate crisis? A former minister accuses him of apathy, and a leaked memo suggests he’s considering rolling back one of the UK’s key financial climate pledges. Just Stop Oil’s Chloe Naldrett joins Nish and Coco with a personal message for the Prime Minister. While we’re recording, Wimbledon becomes the latest sporting event to be hit by protestors, so we drag Chloe back into the studio to give us an instant reaction. She also tells why being shouted at by Piers Morgan was worth it, and why she was willing to go to prison for what she believed in. Plus advice on how you can get involved if you’re feeling helpless about climate change.

 

Nish and Coco examine Rishi Sunak’s grilling by the House of Commons Liaison Committee. Meanwhile his enemies within the party form a new not-so-supergroup called The New Conservatives – although they’re singing a familiar song…about “culturally secure borders”.

 

Plus Coco has a run in with Twitter and reveals that she loves a parody knock off fashion item – and heroes and villains returns, much to the relief of Nish’s mum!

 

Pod Save the UK is a Reduced Listening production for Crooked Media.
 

Contact us via email: PSUK@reducedlistening.co.uk 

WhatsApp: 07514 644572 (UK) or + 44 7514 644572

Twitter: @podsavetheuk

 

Guests:

Chloe Naldrett, spokesperson for Just Stop Oil

 

Audio credits:

Just Stop Oil

Parliamentlive.tv

Sky Sports

The Diary of a CEO podcast

 

TRANSCRIPT

 

Nish Kumar Hi. This is Pod Save the UK.

 

Coco Khan I’m Coco Khan.

 

Nish Kumar And I’m Nish Kumar.

 

Coco Khan Is there any cause you believe in so strongly that you’d be willing to sacrifice your freedom for it?

 

Chloe Naldrett If you’re watching this video. I’m in prison and I’m in prison because of action that I have consciously taken as part of a campaign of civil resistance against this government.

 

Nish Kumar That’s Chloe Naldrett, theater producer, mother of two. Just stop oil activist and our guest on this week’s show.

 

Coco Khan With Rishi Sunak hitting out against eco zealots whilst leaving the climate crisis off his list of five priorities.

 

Nish Kumar It’s time to ask whose side are we on and is it time to just stop oil? Welcome to Pod Save the UK. Hi Coco.

 

Coco Khan Hi Nish!

 

Nish Kumar How’s your week been?

 

Coco Khan Do you know what? It’s been surprisingly good, thanks to a unlikely wellness intervention from space Karen, a.k.a. Elon Musk.

 

Nish Kumar What? What?

 

Coco Khan Did you not have that thing where you had your Twitter limited?

 

Nish Kumar I don’t know. My relationship with Twitter has drifted somewhat.

 

Coco Khan Right. Okay.

 

Nish Kumar It it has drifted somewhat. I think there was a point at which I just started to think, why would I voluntarily open? Like if the post if every day in the post I got 50 letters telling me that I should kill myself, I would stop getting the post.

 

Coco Khan I guess I can see what you mean.

 

Nish Kumar I think a few I was like, I think I did change my relationship, especially when Elon took over and, you know, took over Twitter or a platform of we should have more Nazis on this. But that was the point where I was like, maybe I’ll slightly take a step back from this website. So I definitely use it way less. So I actually I actually didn’t it didn’t practically impact my use of it.

 

Coco Khan Okay.

 

Nish Kumar So did you actually have it?

 

Coco Khan Yeah. So I had the thing that, you know, you log on to Twitter,.

 

Nish Kumar So what happens when you exceed your limit?

 

Coco Khan You just can’t see what anyone else is. Tweeting reads like you’re not able to view anyone else because you’re not important. He already took my blue tick. Can I just say.

 

Nish Kumar Yeah he took mine as well.

 

Coco Khan Took my bloody tick. And then he said I couldn’t use it. And so he basically did what my therapist has been saying for many years, which is get the fuck off Twitter. So to answer your question, I had no Twitter all weekend, so I just, like wrote things. I read things. I was reading about trying to catch up with this horrendous situation in France. Did you know the youngest, the sort of average age of the rioters in France are 17?

 

Nish Kumar Yeah.

 

Coco Khan I mean, to be that young and that disillusioned there’s clearly a problem, a massive problem in France.

 

Nish Kumar Completely.

 

Coco Khan So I was reading about that and this is kind of related, but also maybe not. But this story came up as a part of the many stories around this France situation. They did. They did Haute couture week whilst Paris was burning. They still sent people down the runway, which is like, you know, very, very fashion.

 

Nish Kumar And it’s it’s dreadfully Marie Antoinette. Like, I hate to bring that lady up in conjunction with French history, but you have to say there’s something of the Antoinette of about that endeavor.

 

Coco Khan I mean, it is a touch on the tone deaf side, isn’t it? But I don’t know if you know this about me, but I love fakes.

 

Nish Kumar What do you mean?

 

Coco Khan Fake fake designer items.

 

Nish Kumar Yeah, could.

 

Coco Khan I love them.

 

Nish Kumar Yeah, right. Okay.

 

Coco Khan When I was a kid, obviously, because I was skin and, like, we couldn’t afford Adidas, so you wore Abibas obviously.

 

Nish Kumar Habihas is what I remember.

 

Coco Khan Reebook was my favorite.

 

Nish Kumar No key.

 

Coco Khan But now I’m older. I genuinely love them. It’s like an absurd piece of work. And also it just I’m happy that I’m upsetting the the powers of the design houses. You know, I’m walking around in Christian Bior and probably there’s someone in France really like feeling very hard done by that. And the reason, again, I wanted to bring this up to you is because before we did this podcast, I was like, I want to tell Nish about my love of fakes. And I Googled like fakes to see what was out there. Yeah. And I just need to warn you that there is a present coming for you. And the present is, Are you aware that Adidas have a new slogan, which is impossible, is nothing.

 

Nish Kumar I am aware of that? Yeah. Because it’s like one of those absolutely hilarious, like corporate slogans that genuinely means nothing like Impossible is nothing like, it is the thing. Like, it’s literally a thing. It’s impossible for man to fly. And if you want to test that theory, jump off a cliff without a parachute Adidas.

 

Coco Khan Well, you’re going to love this version I have because it’s a bag, but it’s been garbled, maybe accidentally, or maybe it’s a piece of ironic art. I don’t know. But the slogan is nothing is possible. That’s the slogan. It’s like I’ll wait to get it for you. There was another one.

 

Nish Kumar I really love nihilist fake Adidas. That’s the Nike version would just be don’t bother.

 

Coco Khan Don’t just don’t do it. If any of our listeners come across any great fakes.

 

Nish Kumar Yeah.

 

Coco Khan I’d love to see that.

 

Nish Kumar Yeah. We would love to see that.

 

Coco Khan There was one going round of a badly made Ralph Lauren Polo where the horse was riding the guy. It was really good.

 

Nish Kumar Okay. But outside of outside of Coco’s love of bootleg fashion, our priority today is how to save the UK from a climate catastrophe this week saw the world’s average temperature reaching a new high. Scientists say that the reading was the highest in any record dating back to the end of the 19th century, with our prime minister being accused by his own colleagues of apathy on the climate crisis his government have been forced to deny is planning to break its flagship £11.6 billion climate and nature funding pledge for developing countries. And Alok Sharma has tweeted, So I hope the Government is not planning to drop its climate finance pledge to some of the most vulnerable countries in the world. I was at the U.N. when Boris Johnson made this commitment to spontaneous applause. It was a proud moment for the UK. That’s Conservative MP Alok Sharma, who was president for COP26 when it was held in Glasgow. So we see quite a high. Profile conservative who quite recently had a very important job within the context of the climate crisis, didn’t feel great for Rishi Sunak.

 

Coco Khan Hmm. So there was a lot of outcry about the news that the government may be planning to break its pledge Just Of Oil tweeted. So who is going to put a number on how many deaths this will cause? It’s time to call this government out as murderers. Cutting climate aid to vulnerable countries. Drilling for new oil and gas as more heat records shattered. We are witnessing a deliberate genocide. So coming up next, we’ll be joined by our special guest, Chloe Naldrett, who is spokesperson from Just Stop Oil.

 

[AD]

 

Coco Khan As we record this on Wednesday, the Home Secretary Suella Braverman and Culture Secretary Lucy Frazer are meeting with leading sports bodies to discuss the threat of disruption by protesters from groups such as Just Stop Oil. Over the last few months, we’ve seen the orange powder paint fly at major events like the World Snooker Championships, the Chelsea Flower Show, the Lord’s Test Match, and last week’s Pride March in London. With Wimbledon having just got underway and the British Grand Prix at Silverstone this weekend. The organizers are clearly getting jumpy.

 

Nish Kumar Yesterday, the Prime Minister, Rishi Sunak, wrote an article in The Sun in which he labeled the protesters a Lords eco zealots and praised England cricketer Jonny Bairstow for physically removing one of them from the pitch. Just to be clear, this is the same Rishi Sunak who failed to name the climate crisis as one of his five political priorities and who is accused by Zac Goldsmith, who quit as a Foreign Office minister last week of showing apathy towards the environment. Who also was actually going to skip COP 27 in Egypt last year only to cave on that decision after immense public pressure.

 

Coco Khan So as another climate record tumbles last month being the hottest June on record, who’s going to save us? Because it isn’t going to be this government? Maybe it could be August Chloe. Now she’s a theater producer, a mum of two boys and a spokesperson for Just Stop Oil. Hello, Chloe. Thank you for joining us.

 

Chloe Naldrett Hi. Thank you for having me.

 

Nish Kumar Thanks for coming in, Chloe. So this is ends up being by accident. Particularly relevant day for you to come in, because last week the government’s climate change committee said that the government was missing the majority of its climate targets and had lost its position as a world leader on the climate. And this week, The Guardian and the BBC are reporting that the Government’s drawing up plans to drop the pledge it made when it hosted COP26 in 2019 to contribute £11.6 billion to the Global Fund, set up to help developing nations who are most at risk from climate change. The government has issued a denial on this front. But are you starting to worry if Rishi Sunak actually believes in the climate crisis? Because I mean, he he talks a good game, but based on his actions, he’s starting to feel like a climate denier.

 

Chloe Naldrett Yeah, I think that’s a that’s a totally fair reading of that situation. He just doesn’t get it. And I think that’s because the question really isn’t that because they’ve got the best people briefing them on this. So they simply cannot be unaware. It’s just that he simply doesn’t want to get it. He doesn’t want to face it. He’s not brave enough to look at it, what it means for the country and on a personal level for his children. So, you know, I genuinely think that there’s a sort of an absolute abdication of responsibility coming from him on this on a political level and on a personal level. And like you say, every time you look at the news, every time you open a paper, there is a story about the climate crisis or about our lack of response to the climate crisis, which makes the existence of just a will absolutely fundamentally essential because no one is pushing back against the government on this except us.

 

Nish Kumar With someone like Rishi Sunak. I’m sure there’s a more erudite way of me asking this question, but do you think he’s just too fucking rich to give a shit? Because if there is, you know, he’s probably got some land in New Zealand that he’s squirreling to hide his children when the everything goes bad. Max.

 

Chloe Naldrett Well, I think that’s probably happening to an awful lot of people who live in, you know, with extreme wealth, whether it’s Darren Woods, the CEO of Exxon, who earns $24 million a year, plus his bonuses from from a business practice, which is destroying our future. You know, they know that the oil companies, they know that the government’s they know it because the UN has been really, really clear about what’s happening. So this idea that they’re insulated from the problem, I think I think you’re probably getting at what the what the pathology of it is. Oh, you know, that’s for other people. It’s not for me. Will be all right. But you know what’s coming. The social breakdown that the the weather events, the you know, the absolutely catastrophic consequences of this are going to affect all of us, whether they affect us, you know, directly and not being able to afford our shopping or in having our house burnt down or whether they affect us because we’re simply not safe in our homes and in our society anymore because our infrastructure is crumbling around us. So it’s just it is just absolutely staggering ignorance. And I do think it’s pathological.

 

Coco Khan There is this kind of resistance to engage with it. And certainly justice will provoke a lot of fingers in ears. Stop it. Stop it, Stop it. I’ve actually got an example of it now that I want to play for you. I’m very sorry you have to sit through this for our listeners. We’re going to play Chloe a clip of her recent appearance on Piers Morgan’s show on talk TV.

 

PIers Morgan The more of these things you do, are things I enjoy and my friends enjoy, my family enjoys, and other people with their friends and families enjoy. The more families that you stop and getting to work or getting their kids to school for important exams or getting to funerals or whatever it may be, the more you do that, the more we hate you and the more we don’t want to have anything to. Do with you all give you a platform to talk about the stuff that actually is more important, as you rightly say. Why don’t you just stop the stupid stunts? Stop wrecking people’s lives.

 

Chloe Naldrett This won’t stay in the news and it won’t stay in the conversation. And perhaps what we’re doing by interrupting the things that you need to do that are important to you, that you love is we’re making you think about everything that you know.

 

PIers Morgan No you’re not. You’re making me think you’re a bunch of morons.

 

Chloe Naldrett Moore Durbin said today.

 

PIers Morgan You’re not Chloe. You’re not making me think about your cause. Nobody at Lords today was thinking that it was about climate change. We saw the orange powder. The whole crowd started booing a fortunately, England’s cricketer, Jonny Bairstow. Actually, no. I’m going to tell you, it was a good one to go to Sir Geoffrey Boycott. Geoffrey.

 

Coco Khan It’s very painful to watch that. I watched the whole thing. It’s like 20 minutes long. It is. It’s it’s horrible. There’s a line, by the way, at the beginning where befor he introduces Chloe, where he talks about the attention seeking and wrecking of stuff that other people enjoy. And I thought, you talking about you, Piers? That sounds like a description of you. But. But seriously, how did you feel watching that?

 

Chloe Naldrett That is the first time I’ve seen any of it back because I just thought, I don’t need to watch that back just yet. The funny thing is about, Piers, you can’t take it personally because it’s not personal to me. It’s just generalized hatred towards people who are doing the stuff that he that he disagrees with. And because he’s I think there’s also something pathological going on that he just simply won’t listen to anybody. That’s not what his program is about. It’s not about listening to anyone. It’s not about learning. It’s not about sharing views. It’s literally just about shouting at people. And I thought, you know, I don’t think I need to watch back being shouted at like that. But yeah, it’s the staggering thing about it is that it’s just the lack of vision and the lack of seeing what’s absolutely obvious not to stand there while he and Geoffrey Boycott sort of ranted on about, well, the integrity of the cricket pitch and you’re going well, But the integrity is that the planet that we live on and our ecosystems and our and our crops. And what about the integrity of our water supply? What about the integrity of the the temperatures that we need to live in? You know, it’s just so willfully blind.

 

Coco Khan But it is interesting as well, because the narrative that people use about Just Stop Oil was like, oh, they’re ramming it down our throats. But then you watch all the clips and you barely get a word in and everyone’s shouting at you. It’s just a strange to see it play out like that. It’s quite jarring. And yeah, I’m sure it was more so for you, which is very frustrating.

 

Nish Kumar Also as a cricket fan, I think whilst he’s a wonderful batsman, the protestor is just about the only thing. Jonny Bairstow hasn’t dropped in this test series so far. So in a way, yeah, that’s a very specific test cricket bloke.

 

Coco Khan I wasn’t sure but I think the sportsmen response, which I believe is, oh well.

 

Chloe Naldrett It’s really interesting thinking about what would have happened if the cricketers on the pitch had stopped and stood there and let the protest happen. You know, what was it, 5 minutes, 5 minutes of that match was disrupted before they got back on and carried on playing. Well, if they’d stood there, what if they’d applauded? What if they, you know, supported the people taking that action? How would that have changed the narrative? How would that have changed the public discourse? What are the opportunities here for sportspeople who are finding themselves in this kind of situation? Because we’ve we’re all affected and we’ve all got a part to play.

 

Nish Kumar Can I ask you and I myself have been on a journey with this like I did Question Time a few times, once with Piers Morgan. And, you know, and I felt that I had some obligation to do it. Now I’ve gone the other way and thought maybe that’s maybe I shouldn’t participate in those kind of conversations. Is there value in going on those shows?

 

Chloe Naldrett Yeah, I think there is. I the moment I came off it, I’m never doing that again. I’m never going on that to be shouted out like that again. That’s awful. And then I phoned Doniker afterwards. Who’s also part of that. Yeah. And he said look it’s useful, it’s so useful every single time because otherwise they’re going to have the conversation without us. So they’re just going to, they’re going to do the shouting without even the 30 seconds that I might have got in about, you know, what’s going on and the government’s failure to act. But he said that that anything that you do that shows a little tiny seed of doubt in the presenters mind or in the mind of the people watching every single little bit of reminder that you get that, you know, this is real, this is happening now and we can prevent it because we’re causing it. Every single opportunity to do that is worthwhile.

 

Coco Khan I just yesterday just typed in Just Stop Oil into Google just to see, you know, what was going on. And then you click on the news tab and it gives you all the headlines. And the headlines were mad. One of them was from the BBC and the headline literally said, Just stop oil. What is it and what does it want? I don’t know if you’ve seen the name, but that’s a big clue about what it was. And it was kind of, you know, like I’m a journalist myself, I sometimes try and take with a pinch of salt. With a pinch of salt. Sorry. The idea of like the mainstream media is against people. But when I saw those headlines written out like that, oh my god.

 

Chloe Naldrett It is. Yeah yeah..

 

Coco Khan Very one note one side. Do you feel this is this tactic can eventually cut through this?

 

Chloe Naldrett Well, I think the question is, what are we trying to achieve? And obviously, the main demand is that we need the government to not license the new oil and gas fields and open the can coal mine that they’re trying to open. Like this is the 1870s. That that’s the really clear demand. But you know what we’re not trying to do is get the right wing media to go, God, just stop oil this amazing what great guys. You know, if that was the if that was the aim, this is not how we’d go about it and we would be spectacularly failing. The point is, we are just there to make sure that this conversation is happening every day in every possible cultural space, and we are achieving that. And like you say, that the amount of media that we had like last week was absolutely off the charts. It was astonishing. There is no environmental campaign group that has ever achieved this kind of consistent media presence where, you know, I read an article about Wimbledon yesterday that was actually led with just the people are being screened to make sure that they’re not just a few protesters on the way in. It is just that we’re going to disrupt Wimbledon. We have done anything. Yeah, but suddenly it’s at the top of the conversation. And that’s not because we want attention. And believe me, it’s not because we enjoy doing this stuff. It’s so stressful and, you know, the stress of doing these actions. And then, of course, the possibility of fines and prison sentences, it’s mentally and physically really demanding. But we’re doing it because we don’t know what else to do. You know, the situation is absolutely desperate. And this is this is working because this is changing the public discourse around it, even if it’s we hate you. But actually, we probably have got a point like the oil and gas fields.

 

Nish Kumar Because that is the concern, right? Because the way that the narrative around stop oil is shaped is usually done by hostile elements of the press? So you’re you’re happy for people to have a negative view of just stop oil as an organization as long as they absorb something of the substantive message.

 

Chloe Naldrett There are people who are, you know, typing, just stop, went into a search engine, which I highly recommend you do, and finding where they can come to a talk and they can hear more about what we’re trying to achieve and why, or they can sign up to join us on one of the marches that we’re doing every day in London so that there will always be people who will find us out because they’re sat home going, I’m really scared and I need to do something. So they’re there anyway. We’re not going to get broad public support, but that’s alright because we’re not trying to get elected and it’s not a popularity contest. So that that’s fine. The most important thing is that our government feels the pressure that makes it do the right thing to protect us now and in the future.

 

Nish Kumar And to be clear, the demands are I know you’ve already said it, but I think it’s worth restating. It’s quite it’s quite a specific thing.

 

Chloe Naldrett The brilliant thing about it is that it is a very, very clear demand. You know, just what we’re saying is we cannot license any new oil and gas. We’re not saying shut oil off tomorrow because that would be impractical and that would be that would not be a just transition and that the people who are already at the front line of all the front lines that are happening in this country right now, which are all related to the crisis one way or another, they would be the people that suffer first and worse. So we’re not saying switch it off overnight. We’re saying we need to start the transition with seven or eight years worth of oil that we already have and we need to go. That’s our target. That’s our target to be transitioned towards an energy economy which is built on sustainable, renewable, clean energy sources. So that’s that’s that’s what it is. And of course, the thing is that there are so many things that we need to do all around the world to combat the climate, the climate emergency and the biodiversity loss that is just going to be absolutely catastrophic for all of us and is catastrophic for people now. But we won’t get to do any of those things unless we stop the harm. And the harm is coming from our burning of fossil fuels.

 

Coco Khan I wanted to ask you about your own personal journey. What was your moment that you were like? I have to drop everything and do this now. Was there like a epiphany.

 

Chloe Naldrett There there was for me? There was a moment when I really engaged with the very discomforting truth about what the climate crisis means for my children. And that was that was a really sort of distressing moment for me. And everything that I’ve done since is basically about trying to run as fast as I can away from how that made me feel. So what was the moment? Well, I just sort of I was I was standing in the shower and I just thought what, you know, beautiful day outside. And I and I just had this moment of what if I can’t feed my kids? What if I can’t keep them safe? You know what? If, you know, the climate crisis is the biggest threat to law and order that the world will ever have seen, because what do people do when they when they can’t eat? What do people do when there’s not enough drinking water? What do people do when that their homes aren’t habitable? What if I can’t keep my children safe anymore? And what would that ask of me as a parent? And, you know, the sort of that is. It’s horrific. And I think until people go somewhere like that, your your your version of whatever that is, you know, the threat to the things that you love most. I think you don’t connect with the crisis emotionally because we all know it intellectually. Even the people who are denying it, they know it intellectually. And that is a form of going, oh, God, I can’t I can’t deal with how that makes me feel. So but until we really consider it on that personal level, I think I think it’s very difficult to comprehend because it’s so massive.

 

Coco Khan And you went to prison for it, right?

 

Chloe Naldrett I did.

 

Coco Khan What was that like?

 

Chloe Naldrett  I’m a a white, straight, middle aged, quite middle class woman. I’m cisgendered, I’m employed. I’m able bodied. I’m of sound mind. You know, my my mental health is strong. Prison was not difficult for me on a personal level.

 

Nish Kumar How long were you in for?

 

Chloe Naldrett I only in for a week. I was in I was in I did a week in Foster Hall in Derbyshire. And a lovely lady who was also on the action that we took. Kingsbury Old terminal.

 

Nish Kumar Yeah, because thats.

 

Chloe Naldrett She was there with me.

 

Nish Kumar What was. What was actually the reason you went to prison?

 

Chloe Naldrett Yeah, we broke an injunction. So what’s happening at the moment is civil law, as opposed to criminal law, is being manipulated by the companies that can afford to pay for these things called injunctions. So all the oil terminals in the country have taken out these injunctions which prevent anyone protesting on their land, prevent people from blocking roads. We went to Kingsbury oil Terminal just outside Birmingham, and we sat in the road at the front of that oil terminal in defiance of that injunction and and were therefore then held on remand for a week before we could go into court and be sentenced. So.

 

Nish Kumar So you weren’t actually breaking any laws? To be clear,.

 

Chloe Naldrett We weren’t breaking any any laws of the country. You were breaking a private law that has been taken out by an oil company against ordinary people.

 

Coco Khan Which is interesting because, you know, lots of the criticism against Just Stop Oil is why don’t you go to the oil companies, which is.

 

Chloe Naldrett We do. And 51 of us went to prison for a week in some state somewhere in a bit longer than that. And, you know, the beautiful guardian covered it. But no, it’s, you know, so you go, well, that doesn’t work. It doesn’t work When we do that, it doesn’t get the coverage. So, yeah, it was it was a week in Ferguson. Over a week. Was it? The lovely lady from the action says that, you know, the two of us really looked after each other. The shocking thing for me as someone who has never prior to any of this, had any connection to and any engagement with the criminal justice system whatsoever. The shocking thing for me was meeting the other women that were in that, and I was like, I was still on action mode. So I like talked to everybody now that because they’re poor. They’re there because they are in they are in grinding generational deprivation and they’re committing the kind of crimes that people commit because they’re poor. And it’s the shocking thing about it was the level of illiteracy and the level of mental health issues and just that just the sort of social issues that are being suffered by the women that are in there with absolutely no support. A woman opposite me in the set of some six hour long psychotic episodes between her meds and she left in there on her own. So, you know, for me, it wasn’t a big deal. But witnessing that, that has absolutely fundamentally changed who I am and how I respond to the issues that are going on in our society.

 

Coco Khan When you were in there and you talked about the environment, did it register with people?

 

Chloe Naldrett Oh, yeah. They were obviously fascinated because they were brilliant, because, you know, those women are in there all day, every day for some of them for really long sentences. So they’re really up for a chat. They like, why are all you posh girls in here? Explained. And then I Oh, right. Yeah. That’s really important because, you know, they, you know, they’re at the front line when they’re in that old, poorly insulated prison, really hot in the summer and uncomfortable. And they were like, Yeah, it’s really bad. It’s really bad having to hit 40 degrees. And then when they’re in the winter, they’re absolutely freezing. So, you know, they, they know that they’re that because they’re experiencing at the sharp end what’s going on.

 

Coco Khan So with the reason I wanted to ask you that is because again, how just a boy was characterized. Sometimes it’s this idea that the public are against them. But, you know, I know a couple of just spoiled protesters and they do say, yes, it’s bad, you know, getting spat at pushup. But also some are huge amounts of love and praise from just complete strangers. Yeah. I wondered if you could share some of that as well.

 

Chloe Naldrett Yeah, that’s the thing that the media doesn’t like to report on. So when when we go on programs like that, they tend to show pictures of us out on the roads being interacted with in a negative way by drivers and by passers by. Because that’s great news, right? That’s that’s nice part of conflict and sparks of discussion. Well they’re not showing is the people who stop and applaud and the people who, you know, burst into tears and say thank you for doing what you’re doing. And then the people who stop and have a conversation and then subsequently, you know, might go and join up and join us in the march. And at the time, it was a really amazing story from one of the early daily marches sort of back in the end of April, where somebody came along earlier in the day and ripped banners and was really angry and verbally abused the people who were walking along the street and then came back the following day and apologized and said, I’ve looked into what you’re doing and it’s really great and stopped and had a cup of tea with them. Wow. Where’s that story? Where’s that story being told? You know, because that’s that’s that is also what’s happening.

 

Coco Khan Just as an aside, we had someone write in to us who had a small one man protest not about the environment, but about voter voter I.D.. That’s right. And people brought him tea. And I don’t know why, but there’s just something about that, like the beautiful activist cup of tea. You know, just so it’s just some good cups of tea.

 

Chloe Naldrett The lovely thing within the activist community, which it really is a community, is that there’s a huge amount of self-care and love for each other because we all understand the pressure that we’re under of putting ourselves in these situations and what that feels like. And so there is just this lovely familial feeling. And the amazing thing is we’re all completely different. You know, there is I know there’s a media stereotype out there, but it’s it’s totally inaccurate because we’re people from completely different walks of life and this whole confected narrative that we are the enemies of working people. We are all we are working people. We’re are actually your neighbors. And when you when we all get together, which doesn’t happen very often, it is beautiful. When it does, you really see that because we are just a cross-section of society.

 

Coco Khan I do want to ask you about politics. Given that we are a political podcast, is there any party you’d back to look after the environment at this moment in time?

 

Chloe Naldrett Well, the interesting thing is that as a result of these protests or as or maybe just as a result of good sense and reading that the you know, the UN’s report on climate change, perhaps every political party in this country, with the exception of the Conservatives, has backed the no new oil pledge and has turned that into their policy. So, you know, and Keir Starmer reiterated that a few weeks ago, whoever gets in next is going to need their feet held to the fire because there’s there is big, difficult work to do. And politicians, as we’ve seen, you know, Tories have been in 13 years, they haven’t wanted to engage with any of this. In fact, they’ve gone backwards. They’ve gone backwards. So anyone who comes in next is going to need to be held to account.

 

Coco Khan Does that mean Just Stop Oil will disband?

 

Chloe Naldrett No. Well, it depends. It depends. We’re we’re only here as long as we’re necessary. Yeah. So if if the next government is is. Doing what it needs to do in respect of stopping new oil and gas licenses, then, you know, then this campaign won’t be necessary anymore. And it’d be lovely to think we’d get to that point.

 

Coco Khan Please we don’t want this job anymore.

 

Chloe Naldrett I’d love to go home and go back to my job. It’d be really nice.

 

Nish Kumar You had to take a hiatus from your job?

 

Chloe Naldrett No, I’m still I’m still working, so I did take some unpaid leave when I went and did the Kingsbury action and went to prison.

 

Nish Kumar In terms of like we’re already talking about next governments because I mean, there’s a pretty wide gap with.

 

Chloe Naldrett The on staying.

 

Nish Kumar I’m not going to be hanging around for very long. But unfortunately, because of the nature of our electoral system, there’s a chance that the election could be held as late as January 2025. And, you know, one of the messages that we’re constantly getting is time’s running out. Time’s running out. Time’s running out. Is there a message in the interim that you would like to deliver to Rishi Sunak in, you know, given that he could be prime minister for, you know, at least another year and a half?

 

Chloe Naldrett I think the key thing with Rishi Sunak is he’s clearly incapable of dealing with this as a politician. I’d like him to think about it as a parent. I’d like him to think about his responsibility to his two children, to his girls, and consider what he can be doing on their behalf if he won’t consider it on our behalf. So I would really like him to consider what his responsibility is as a father, because if we all thought about what we could do as an individual, then we would already be halfway to solving this problem. And he has the power to do some really good, important things. And he’ll have to be brave and it won’t be comfortable. But if he does think about what this means for his children, I think his decisions might be different.

 

Nish Kumar He I mean, he obviously, as an individual has a huge amount of power. The problem sometimes the thing that I feel about it is completely powerless and hopeless. I think that sometimes when you read a lot the information about where we’re going, what’s what, while we’re just demanding that you give messages out to individuals or groups.

 

Coco Khan Like a weird version of Cameo, isn’t it?

 

Chloe Naldrett I’m here for this.This is great.

 

Nish Kumar Well, what’s the best of you? How do you. Warn people of despair.

 

Coco Khan Because it’s quite paralyzing despair.

 

Chloe Naldrett Yeah.

 

Coco Khan If you think it’s inevitable, it is hard to get up and stay motivated.

 

Chloe Naldrett Yeah. Despair is is an inactive emotion. Yeah. So you’ve got to get from despair to hope. And hope is an active emotion and not not, you know, crossing your fingers and wishing it ill all turn out. But actually, truly what active hope is. You. I think there’ll be so many people who are listening to this who feel as I did this is really scary and I don’t know what to do. And I would just urge those people to find other people. Yeah. Whether you want to come and join, just people on a promise should be welcomed with open arms. If you do, whether you feel like Extinction Rebellion, which has moved into this more sort of community, grassroots joining organizations are really important work. If you feel that’s the place for you, go there. If you feel it’s Greenpeace or Parents for future or Friends of the Earth. Just go and find other people who are where you are at in terms of thinking this is awful and you are where you are in terms of what you’re prepared to put on the line for it. And that is the antidote to the despair every single time finding other people who share your concerns but are prepared to work with you to do something about it. And anyone that thinks that an individual cannot make a difference has simply never tried.

 

Nish Kumar I have one question. Yeah. How are you as a person? Because like, this kind of stuff is hard and it does take a toll on the individual. And you know, you’re an activist and a campaigner, but you’re also a human being. And are you feeling all right?

 

Chloe Naldrett Thank you for asking. And I am. I am. Because this feeds this gives me a lot back. This is so much better for me than sitting with that despair and that feeling of I can’t do anything and not worry. This is so much better. But it is hard. You know, It’s hard being. It’s hard reading all the reports. It’s hard reading all the newspaper articles. You know, before I had that sort of awful vision about what it’s going to mean for my kids, I used to read the headlines and go, I don’t want to read that. I don’t want to know. And now I do read it and I have to hold all of that information and it’s hard and it’s heavy, but I don’t feel like I do it alone anymore. And I do feel like there’s people who are who are looking out for me. And I do feel this enormous sort of swell of love and support from not just from the activist community, but from, you know, my network. You know, when I go out and do Piers Morgan, I get all these messages and people going, you’re okay. Horrible. You know, and that and that is really helpful because I know that what I’m doing is is being seen and appreciated and it is changing the way people think.

 

Coco Khan And I think also have going to have my philosophy moment again. Here we go. Here we go. I’m still into an issue about it earlier, actually, that I once went to a philosophy class and it was all about like logic. And I don’t know, to be honest, because I didn’t really get it. But one of my takeaways from it was this idea that, like, you should always be sure to make a distinction between likely and inevitable, because actually inevitable logically is very, very, very, very, very, very rare. Extremely rare. What you talk more about is likely, and I always thought to myself, well, as long as things that are bad are not inevitable, there’s always a way, there’s always a way forward. And if long as you can hang on to that, you can keep motivated, you know? And yet, even with this climate, climate catastrophe, there is still a way we can still live well on this country and on this planet. It’s not because I know people are talking about, oh, it’s the point of no return. But there’s still there’s still a way we can do this, right?

 

Chloe Naldrett Well, there’s still everything to fight for because the reality is it’s not like there’s going to come one day and everything shuts down and it’s all over. We have to fight for every single fraction of a degree of global warming, because every single 10th of a degree represents the livability for millions and millions of people. So, you know, even if we do hit a point where the scientists say, well, we passed 1.5 degrees, we basically passed it this year is the absolute choice of that then and we start to lose control of some of those climate systems. And there’s that ecosystem collapse. It’s we still have to keep fighting because there will that won’t mean that everything is shut down. It will just mean that we lose some things. But the reality is that we sort of got till the end of this decade. And if we absolutely go at it, frankly, if we went at it, if our government went at it with the zeal for which it’s going for environmental protests.

 

Nish Kumar Yeah.

 

Chloe Naldrett We’d be fine. You know, if they if they were spending time, you know, having into inter-ministerial conversations about how we solve the crisis rather than how we deal with the fire alarm, then we’d be all right. So that’s why it is so important that we mobilize. Everybody and not everybody to be in it.

 

Coco Khan If climate was a migrant and they would just care more.

 

Nish Kumar I think that I think the the phrase they’re more worried about the fire alarm that the fire is so good. That’s I mean, that’s the good that’s that’s the whole thing, isn’t it?

 

Chloe Naldrett Yeah. That is the whole thing.

 

Coco Khan Thank you so much for your time, Chloe. This has been so thought provoking and inspirational. We really appreciate it.

 

Nish Kumar Thank you, Chloe.

 

Chloe Naldrett Thank you.

 

[AD]

 

Nish Kumar Okay. It’s been another tricky week for Rishi Sunak, the Prime Minister, at time of recording. Yet more divisions have appeared within his party. Backbenchers have launched their own immigration plan, of which we will talk more in a moment. But he was also given a grilling by the Cross-Bench Commons Liaison Committee, which is a sort of super committee made up of the chairs of the other Commons committees. And it’s something that every Prime Minister is expected to do twice a year.

 

Coco Khan Mm. So questions range from the economy, immigration, NHS to Ukraine and Israel. He was given a particularly thorough going over. That makes it sound a bit saucy there. Sorry just that line there. Oh, right. By Labour MP Chris Bryant, who forced him to admit. I’ll should I do it again just in case? I don’t know.

 

Nish Kumar I don’t. I don’t mind you bringing a bit of blow to this, and I’m not talking about the Tory party.

 

Coco Khan All right, let’s let’s stick with it. He was given a particularly thorough going over by Labour MP Chris Bryant, who forced him to admit he hadn’t read the report from the Privileges Committee, which criticized a number of Tory MP for undermining its authority over its report into Boris Johnson misleading Parliament. Chris Bryant also grilled the PM over his plans to miss the next two Prime Minister’s questions on missing votes and potential punishments for Boris Johnson and the former minister, Owen Paterson.

 

Clip You didn’t turn up for the impassioned votes at all. That’s right, isn’t it? I can’t recall. You didn’t turn up for the Boris Johnson votes at all. Did you know I was a talented enough Jewish guy? I think that’s some cutting it fine. I would argue, since. Other members of parliament who were at the same dinner with you and left after, you did manage to get back to the vote.

 

Clip I think with greatest respect, I think their role and my role at the dinner probably slightly, you chose not to be there, didn’t. That’s to Rule Breaker moments. You chose not to be in parliament. But yesterday you opined on the rules of cricket.

 

Coco Khan Oh, God. The thing I dislike from that whole situation there was Rishi Sunak just smiling the whole time.

 

Nish Kumar Do you want to that again because you said Snooze-nak It’s I mean it felt like a Freudian slip that you’ve, you’re so bored by him that you’ve tried to sneak the word snooze into his sur name.

 

Coco Khan Does it? I mean it doesn’t, not work.

 

Nish Kumar It doesn’t not work. Snooze-nak

 

Coco Khan Snooze-nak. It’s. Oh well, what I really disliked about that episode there, that exchange was that Rishi Sunak had a a shameless smirk on his face the entire time.

 

Nish Kumar Yeah. And I think, look, I can understand how you might look at this and think, well, at the end of the day, this is a sort of this feels a bit sort of inside Westminster who attended what votes, who did this. But I think the reason that it really matters is because of the stall Rishi Sunak has set out and the platform that he is aiming to win the next election on. And now a chunk of that is just general culture war and sort of personal attacks on Starmer. But another facet of that is he has set a stall out as being the antidote to Boris Johnson. So he has set himself up as a person of integrity, maybe a little dull at points, but a technocrat who’s focused on detail. And so I think the problem for him here is that he hasn’t read a report into whether members of his own party may have been damaging the political process and democratic accountability in this country. And he didn’t attend to votes about the integrity of the former prime minister, again, who comes to his party under whose tenure he served as chancellor. So I think that this contradicts Rishi Sunak’s own image that he’s trying to sell to the public of a details oriented person who has immense personal integrity. And that also matters because the only other thing he says is stall out on is these five pledges, which at the time were criticized for being so low in their expectations that it was almost impossible to not fulfill them. And he hasn’t fulfilled any of them. So he’s not delivering anything substantive on a policy front, and he’s not delivering on his promise to be a detail focused politician of immense integrity. You know, he’s a fucking waste of space.

 

Coco Khan I wanted to tell you about this new band that I’m sure you’re going to love. They’re called the New Conservatives, and they have all your favorite players in it, but the music’s even more shit. Have you heard of them? You seen the first album?

 

Nish Kumar Yes, I did see this. This was the the website launch of Monday of a new group of new conservatives.

 

Coco Khan Track list includes We Hate Migrants. Yes.

 

Nish Kumar Tom Hunt, one of the employees who was part of the group, said he sees the group focusing on three major issues migration, law order and what they say is the threat to Britain from woke ideas like how is this the new conservatives? He doesn’t seem to be hugely different from the old conservatives. But Myriam Kate says another MP gave a speech at the event saying it was time to make our borders culturally secure. Oh, hello, Miriam. I see the dogs are scrambling from the dog whistle you just blew culturally secure. Oh, what in the name of Enoch Powell? I’ve been there. I mean, they’ve they’ve got they’re calling on the government to dramatically reduce migration. They say they want to see net migration fall from 606000 to 240000 before the end of 2024, which the report argues could be achieved. Get this, coco by measures including slashing temporary care worker visas. And I’ll tell you, if there’s one section in Britain that has too many workers, it’s the care section. People in care have had it too good for too long.

 

Coco Khan I mean, I thought the conservatives are meant to love old people. That’s their voter base that is predominantly going to impact elderly care.

 

Nish Kumar They want this to happen before the end of 2024. I mean, it’s all I as I’m saying this I. I’m wasting my breath because why are we trying to speak logically to these people?

 

Coco Khan Part of our job on this podcast is, you know, when Labour make their promises to be like, Yes, but where does the money come from? And there’s a part of me that’s like, I don’t care. I just find the money, rob the bank. I don’t care. Do what you got to do, man. You just find it. Because, I mean, if you were to do nothing, that would be a diminishing service as people leave. But then these guys are here, just out here with axes, trying to cut down every little sapling of hope we have left in it.

 

Nish Kumar But look, it’s bad news for Sunak because this is more dissenting voices coming from the right of his party. And that’s the section of the party that maybe didn’t want him in place in the first place. And, you know, I personally have no faith in the Conservative Party’s ability to deal with its most extreme elements, only because in the last 13 years, the story of British politics is the right hard right. The Conservative Party wants something and it gets it.

 

Coco Khan Just on this new conservatives business, it speaks to an email we’ve had in from a US listener. He’s called Nathan. Hi, Nathan. And he says, As an outsider looking in so well above him and seems to be both racist, incompetent, and maybe not the brightest star in the firmament. So my question is why? How is she home secretary if she seems so ill suited? Is it the least coveted ministerial position? Is it that they had to put her somewhere? Or is it that she was essentially appointed to destroy the ministry from within?

 

Nish Kumar Well, I think, again, for international listeners, it’s worth considering. Suella Braverman recent career. So in October of 2022, she left her Cabinet position as Home secretary, and she said the departure was because she had made an honest mistake by sharing an official document from her personal email address with a colleague in Parliament, which sort of breaches our ministerial code. She kind of resigned. And then that was the 19th of October 2022, on the 25th of October 2022. So a grand total of six days later. She was reappointed to the same job by Rishi Sunak. Now the widespread assumption is that Rishi Sunak guaranteed her that job back if she supported him in his campaign to be leader and not Boris Johnson, who she’d been a very close and public political ally of. And that was a way of ensuring that Johnson didn’t have enough votes for MPs to stand against Sunak. And if he’d had to stand against Sunak, the votes would have gone to the Conservative members who had already rejected Rishi Sunak in favor of Liz Truss and seemed to be the last people in Britain to still have anything approaching a high opinion of Boris Johnson. So she is very specifically in that job as a way of quieting down this right wing fringe of the Conservative Party. And again, this goes back to what I was saying. The tail is wagging the dog and unfortunately the tail is doing what looks uncomfortably like a sick Kyle towards Germany in the 1930s. So Suella Braverman is in that job essentially not because she’s qualified, but because she appeases a small section of the Conservative Party. And those are the people who unfortunately are running the country.

 

Coco Khan So we interrupt this podcast because I have just received a news alert, not just special for us. I think many people who have news that would have received the same one that just of oil have protested at Wimbledon.

 

Nish Kumar Yeah, I’m I’m just watching footage now. It’s a game between show Shimabukuro and Grigor Dimitrov, and they sort of Dimitrov is about to go to serve on court at Wimbledon and to Jay. So protesters have run on and thrown sort of what looks like orange confetti on the court. There’s a lot of booing from people who I guess were very excited to see some action on the court. And yeah, and so it’s yeah, it’s just this scattering bits of orange confetti across the court.

 

Coco Khan Yeah. And so we had the pleasure of speaking to Chloe Naldrett, who is a spokesperson for Just Stop Oil earlier. She’d actually left the studio. This happened and we pretty much just chased her and asked to come bac, so thanks for doing that. Chloe.So.

 

Chloe Naldrett My pleasure.

 

Coco Khan I mean, I’ve got to ask, did you know this was coming?

 

Chloe Naldrett I didn’t know it was coming, but I’m not terribly surprised that it’s coming. Whenever we are engaged in civil resistance and taking every possible opportunity to bring maximum attention to the cause. And of course, Wimbledon is one of the biggest sporting events in the diary. So I’m not surprised to see that it’s happened.

 

Nish Kumar It’s hard to not acknowledge the reaction of the crowd. There’s a lot of booing. How do you feel about that reaction?

 

Chloe Naldrett I think that it’s unsurprising. Is it because it’s interrupting people’s enjoyment of something And in the moment that is really annoying and frustrating. We all know what you know, that with you being held up in traffic or whether, you know, you’ve gone to watch a sporting event and it’s and it’s had to stop for some reason, it is really annoying. But we’re looking at a disproportionate amount of disruption that is that is coming for all of us. So the disruption to a sporting fixture for, you know, let’s face it, probably five, 10 minutes in order to draw attention to the crisis. You know, really isn’t the big the biggest the biggest deal.

 

Coco Khan Hmm. This protest had a variation from the iconic orange powder. I just wondered if you could explain for our listeners about the confetti.

 

Chloe Naldrett Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know that. I don’t know what’s being used there. It will be something that’s nontoxic and it will be biodegradable. It won’t be harmful at all. Like the the the the poster paint is actually cornflour with food coloring in it. So there’s absolutely, you know, no, you could eat it basically, you know, no toxic risk. But it’s you know, that Wimbledon has stepped up its the searches, back searches and confiscating anything that could conceivably have looked like orange post paint. So. Right. And they had to have had to evolve. I mean, that’s what we’re doing.

 

Nish Kumar The reports are that it’s jigsaw pieces and confetti. And there’s an official statement from just pop oil saying we can’t leave it to the next generation to pick up the pieces, which is that solid word play. Man.

 

Chloe Naldrett It’s really good, isn’t it? You know.

 

Nish Kumar Jigsaw pieces. You can’t leave it to.

 

Chloe Naldrett Really literal.

 

Nish Kumar That’s solid.

 

Chloe Naldrett And I’ve just had a look at the at the press release and the two individuals that that took action. The two sports have just a poll who’s taken this action are grandparents. They’re concerned for the future of their grandchildren. And, you know, we all get that, don’t we? I was looking at a picture the other day of my dad with my with my two children, and it just made me think I have a going to see if there is going to be a picture of my children with their grandchildren. Are they going to have the privilege of grandchildren? So it’s very moving. When you think about the kind of sacrifices that are being made for our for our kids, for our next generations. Gorgeous.

 

Nish Kumar Thanks, Chloe. So a number of you have scolded us for leaving out heroes and villains from last week’s episode, including, to be absolutely fair, my mother, who also called me to say where was heroes and villains? But we needed to make room for John Humphrys’ great stories. There was a lot of love for him in the books, right?

 

Chloe Naldrett Yes, lots of love for Mr. Humphrys in our inbox, including this from at triple Chibi. They commented on YouTube to say I’ve never heard of John Humphrys, but I’m already writing up a petition to make him my new grandad. So if you’re also in need of a surrogate grandparent, you can listen back to John Humphrys on last week’s episode. It’s episode nine on our feed and we did actually put last week’s hero and villain on social media. So that’s your fault for not following. You can find us Pod save the UK on Twitter.

 

Nish Kumar Okay, so Coco, tell us who you’ve chosen as this week’s PSUK villain of the Week.

 

Chloe Naldrett Yes. So I’m going to go for the rail delivery group. They represent train companies and they’re planning to close hundreds of ticket offices in stations across England over the next three years. As you know, transport is my thing. I feel very passionately about it. But for me, I think this speaks to a problem with like, who is designing our world? This decision was clearly made by someone designed by someone, or some people who have never experienced poverty, who certainly aren’t elderly and certainly not disabled. Probably we kind of know what the decision makers look like because, you know, there’s lots of people who won’t be able to use an app and might need help. You know, I mean, the amount of times if you need to get onto an app and you’re not on, you know, on a contract phone, if you just pay as you go, you run out of data. I’m just I just think it’s really sad and it makes me absolutely furious. Also, just on a personal level, those apps break. They break by the time those machines break all the time. So there’s actually a lot of people who just that’s not going to work for them, you know?

 

Nish Kumar Yeah, it’s it’s it is interesting how many decisions are now being made on the assumption that every single person interacting with every single thing they need to interact with to get through their day to day lives has access to the Internet on a mobile phone that has credit on it. And then they’re also able to pay for things on their bank cards. And again, there’s the assumption around a cashless society does exclude a lot of unhoused people, recent immigrants, undocumented people that, you know, are part of the economy and the lifeblood of the country are the people, too, and have the right to use these things.

 

Chloe Naldrett Exactly. But anyway, please take us out on a positive note with your Hero of the Week.

 

Nish Kumar I’ve gone for a trailblazer in the sport of football, which for our American listeners you now know as that thing Ted Lasso does. Hannah Dingley, 30 years after the show. The manageress imagined. The actress Sherri Longhi is the first woman to take charge of a men’s team. Hannah has made history as the first ever woman to manage a professional men’s team in the top four leagues of English football. She’s been put in caretaker charge of the first team at Forest Green Rovers in League Two after the club sacked former Everton and Scotland striker Duncan Ferguson. She took the Forest Green first team for training for the first time on Tuesday and she’ll be in charge for tonight’s Friendly at Non-League Melksham Town and she’s expected to continue to lead pre-season preparations.

 

Clip I think the important thing as well is that sort of role modeling for other female coaches, other young girls and a grown up knowing that anything is possible if you work hard enough and opportunities do come along. Almost my biggest concern in a way, is that this isn’t a gimmick. This isn’t about this. This is about those players in the changing room, and this is about them getting the preparation that they need for that campaign and. I would like that. Nothing takes away from that, because if it does, then it’s probably the wrong thing to do to put me in this position in the first place, because they’re the policy and scheme of the policy. And this isn’t, as I say, a gimmick. This is because we need to do the best things for these footballers and our football club.

 

Nish Kumar Look, there’s absolutely no reason why an eminently qualified women shouldn’t be able to coach a men’s football team. Nobody seems to have any problem with it the other way round. Phil Neville was in charge of the England women’s team despite having a somewhat insubstantial coaching CV. And you know, it was in fact his successor, a woman, Serena Wiegman, who actually brought England a football trophy for the first time since 1966 when the women won the Euros. So I can’t see any reason why this shouldn’t happen more often. And it’s also very difficult to be the first person through the door in any way. So you have to salute Hannah Dingley. It’s incredible.

 

Chloe Naldrett Phil Neville is not the mini retirement one, is he?

 

Nish Kumar Nah, that’s Gary.

 

Coco Khan Oh, right? yeah.

 

Clip This weekend I’m going to Spain Friday til Monday morning. I call this a mini retirement. So.

 

Clip That’s a weekend.

 

Clip It’s a weekend. It’s a mini retirement.

 

Coco Khan I think about that daily that very much lives in my mind, rent free.

 

Nish Kumar I think he based on an interview I heard with him last week, I think he gets reminders of that daily. But by the other people I’ve seen multiple he’s on a live tour at the moment of the overlap, which is his like YouTube web series and basically gets brought up every 5 minutes.

 

Coco Khan Did you know how when I guess was talking about like, Oh, just spoil. Everyone’s like obsessing about it and that’s why they’ve almost done a good job. You know, just a boy was living in politicians minds rent free. That’s a good thing to have in your mind. Rent free. Not mini retirement. Which is what I’ve got. I think about it all the time.

 

Nish Kumar Thanks to everybody who’s got in touch this week. You can get in touch with us by emailing stuck at reduced listening echo dot UK or you can even send us a voice note on WhatsApp. Our number is 07514644572. Internationally, that’s +447514644572. If you’re new to the show, remember to hit follow on your app and you get a new episode every week.

 

Coco Khan And just finally, little favor. A little favor. The British Podcast Awards has a public vote, the listeners choice. And if you’d like to vote for us, you know, it’s no, it’s not mandatory, but it would be good. And it’s also free and easy to do. So please just go to www dot British podcast awards dot com forward slash voting anyone can vote so again you just go to that website British podcast awards dot com forward slash voting and you just type in the little box there Pod Save the UK.

 

Nish Kumar Remember, as a show, we encourage people to vote as often as possible.

 

Coco Khan Pod Save the UK is a Reduced Listening production for Crooked Media.

 

Nish Kumar Thanks to senior producer Musty Aziz and digital producer Alex Bishop.

 

Coco Khan Video editing was by Will Docking and the music is by Vasilis Fotopolous

 

Nish Kumar Thanks to our engineer David Dugahee.

 

Coco Khan The executive producers are Louise Cotton, Dan Jackson, Madeleine Haeringer and Michael Martinez.

 

Nish Kumar Watch us on the Pod Save the World YouTube Channel. Follow us on Twitter and TikTok, where we’re at Pod Save the UK or on Instagram through the Crooked Media Channel.

 

Coco Khan And hit subscribe for new shows every Thursday on Spotify, Amazon, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.