In This Episode
Ira and Louis discuss the death of Queen Elizabeth II and the reactions to it, the Emmys, Ben Savage’s political bid, the Obamas new portraits, and more. Plus, Edward Enninful joins to discuss his role as British Vogue’s editor-in-chief and his new memoir A Visible Man.
Check out Sheryl Lee Ralph’s recent Keep It Appearance here: https://crooked.com/podcast/we-dont-talk-about-favreau-w-sheryl-lee-ralph/
Jon Favreau Hi, I’m Jon Favreau, host of Crooked Media Weekly Interview series, Off Line with Jon Favreau. Each week on Off Line, I talk to someone from News, Politics, entertainment, sports or business about all the ways our extremely online existence is shaping the way we live, work and interact with one another. Catch new episodes of Offline with Jon Favreau every Sunday. Listen on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Ira Madison III [AD]
Ira Madison III And we’re back for an all new episode of Keep It. I’m Ira Madison III.
Louis Virtel I’m Louis Virtel. And the stench of the Emmys is still on me. I’m fresh from the ceremony. I was there with Jimmy Kimmel Live backstage with Guillermo, doing the bit we do every year there, watching the winners walk by. So if I seem extra golden, it’s because the kiss of Hollywood is still on my neck. Why am I like a poet today? You ever wonder? Why am I like that?
Ira Madison III Did you have to step over his dead body?
Louis Virtel Also, what’s weird is, so when that happened, I saw his bit. He did with Will Arnett, which of course we pitched 450 alternatives for, and they ended up with that one. But whatever, they’re funny together. I missed Quinta actually accepting the speech because I was doing this bit with Guillermo. So when people were like, Why did he laid out in the speech? I was like, It was a perfectly benign bit. They didn’t realize, Oh, he was still on the stage with Quinta when she won her award. I totally missed that part.
Ira Madison III He was like the blood in Macbeth.
Louis Virtel That’s right. Yes. As as Variety said. Yes, they used the same metaphor.
Ira Madison III Oh, how are the, how was being backstage?
Louis Virtel Well, it my particular position is fun because at the Emmys, they have a little kiosk set up for just the winners to walk through. So you. So they have like whatever, Entertainment Tonight and Access Hollywood and stuff. And then Guillermo has his own little station next to them. And the winners are, of course, really excited to give interviews because the stress of the night is over or whatever. And they’re there to like, you know, toast the show and their fellow cast members and stuff like that. So to be by those people, like while they’re brandishing the Emmy, is a lot of fun. Like, for instance, like at the Oscars, you don’t really get that. They just talk to, you know, all the main press, you know, at once.
Ira Madison III Yeah. Oh, yeah. It’s like the firing squad at the Oscars.
Louis Virtel Yes. Right. Yeah. It’s like here comes somebody from Croatia with the meanest question about your face. Yeah.
Ira Madison III Um, well, we’re going to talk more about the Emmys this week. Obviously, we’re also talk about the state of mourning we’re in.
Louis Virtel Oh, God. Both of us wearing black. I’m kidding. We’re both wearing, like, rainbow colors.
Ira Madison III Well, that’s what Jean-Luc Godard would have wanted, because that’s who’s passing I’m actually mourning for.
Louis Virtel Yes, he is. He was 93, correct?
Ira Madison III Yeah. You know which of us is masculine and which of us is feminine?
Louis Virtel Oh, well, if I’m masculine, that’s too bad. So
Ira Madison III Me, I’m breathless.
Louis Virtel That I see yes. Oh, Jean Seberg, we salute you. Marshalltown, Iowa Zone.
Ira Madison III I’m Jean-Luc Godard’s Breathless. And You’re Madonna’s. I’m Breathless.
Louis Virtel And Madonna famously obsessed with the movie Breathless. This is why she was named Breathless.
Ira Madison III Is that what she was named?
Louis Virtel She is fucking obsessed with that movie. That comes up a lot. Yeah.
Ira Madison III I think you can see that. You know, in. In in W.E..
Louis Virtel Oh, sure. Definitely. And I know we’ve talked about this before. I think she is the best part of Dick Tracy. A movie that otherwise sucks.
Ira Madison III I like Dick Tracy, but I was.
Louis Virtel It would be very off brand if you didn’t like it. Yeah.
Ira Madison III I was especially enamored with her in that film. She is. She’s giving it.
Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. Also those songs, you know. I know. We both love that soundtrack.
Ira Madison III Yeah.
Louis Virtel Back in business. More great songs.
Ira Madison III But no, the queen died, so.
Louis Virtel Oh, yeah, right.
Ira Madison III Yeah. Well, we’ll. We’ll talk about her and we’ll talk about my new Queen Camilla up in the castle.
Louis Virtel I have to say.
Ira Madison III Doing shows
Louis Virtel Yes. Did you just say, doing shows? What kind of shows? I will say no. I support any British woman who has the same silhouette as Christine McVie, and that is always what Camilla Parker-Bowles has been.
Ira Madison III So sometimes side chicks do win.
Louis Virtel That’s right. Oh, isn’t that beautiful?
Ira Madison III She played the long game.
Louis Virtel Right. I mean, I would say we should call this the Angelina rollout.
Ira Madison III I mean, truly, imagine waiting out your man picking someone else.
Louis Virtel Right.
Ira Madison III Having children with him. The British public loving her and hating you.
Louis Virtel Right.
Ira Madison III Her dying.
Louis Virtel Tragically.
Ira Madison III You getting married to him. People still hate you.
Louis Virtel You’re right. You don’t win any times. Yeah.
Ira Madison III His. His mama has taken, like, 12 Land Before Time sequels to die. And now you are finally up in that throne.
Louis Virtel With with King Charles. And also the day after his unsightly fingers are unleashed on the public too. So now it’s like you’re mad as an extra. Like, we’re not obsessed with him at the moment either. So
Ira Madison III She’s really been through it. She’s the true heroine of this story. I want to see I get out. We’ll talk about this. We’ll talk about this.
Louis Virtel Okay.
Ira Madison III But, you know, we’ve seen a lot of we see a lot of biopics about the crown and the royal family. And I’m like, where’s the definitive Camilla?
Louis Virtel Right. No, Pablo Larrain got on this. Yeah, we had we got a lovely performance as Camilla from Emerald Fennell again. We’ll get into this.
Ira Madison III Yeah, but I want. I want. I want the Camilla biopic. Yeah.
Louis Virtel Come on, Kitty. What’s that woman who writes all those biographies of Kitty Wells? I forget her name. Andrew Morton. You got all these people. Get on it.
Ira Madison III Olive Kitteridge. I’ll look at.
Louis Virtel Frances McDormand if you could get on.
Ira Madison III This. Also, to keep things British this week, I am joined by Edward Enninful, the editor in chief of British Vogue, to talk about his new book, Invisible Man. It’s his memoir. We will be right back with more keeping. The 74th Primetime Emmy Awards aired Monday night. Hosted by Keenan Thompson, the big winner of the night was HBO. But my personal favorite winner of the night was Miss Sheryl Lee Ralph.
Louis Virtel Oh, my God. First of all, let me just say I predicted that win I’m sure you predicted it, too. But
Ira Madison III Yeah.
Louis Virtel I said when that happens, something explosive is going to happen. Now, last year we had Hannah Waddingham win. And as I noted at the time, that woman is a true freak. She will scream and, you know.
Ira Madison III Unique.
Louis Virtel Yeah, that’s right. She’s she’s from. She’s the West End theater girl. Like, there’s no rules over there. Sheryl Lee Ralph. Somewhat similar. A theater girl herself, you know, under rewarded in terms of actual accolades over the years. But beloved she was on Keep It recently what a wonderful guest. Wonderful time talking to her. And I knew we’d get something classic. I did not know we would get something Verdi’s Aida level.
Ira Madison III You did not know we would get Diane Reeves’s Endangered Species?
Louis Virtel Yes.
Ira Madison III Belted. As soon as she hit the stage.
Louis Virtel When she had people Googling right away. I love a speech that gets people Googling. What the fuck is that?
Ira Madison III Inclusions writer.
Louis Virtel Frances McDormand, again. Wow. She paying you this week?
Ira Madison III I’m on her payroll. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. No, the speech was marvelous. And, you know. Yes, like we said, she was on Keep It. And I profiled her for the cut.
Louis Virtel Right. Yes.
Ira Madison III Recently. And was that it was in her home. It’s it was just a joy to see it, you know, and it’s nice when everyone in the room is, like, happy for the winner.
Louis Virtel Yeah. Also, it’s like that happens in those categories, you know, when, like a Louie Anderson wins or a Henry Winkler, you know, it’s like typically it tends to be a supporting role. This person who’s been around forever has no like. Like, everybody loves them. They have they have no missteps in their past or whatever. And they finally you know, I do not mean to say that about Louie Anderson, by the way. I can think of a misstep or two in his past. But but when Sheryl Lee Ralph won for Abbott Elementary for a minute, she looked like she was at a complete loss for words. And I thought we were going to get one of those, you know, Anna Paquin, Oscar wins where someone just gets up there and like nervously smiles. And then we got the opposite, which is somebody had prepared an aria for us.
Ira Madison III It’s always interesting when you think about moments like these because there’s obviously so many fucking great talents in Hollywood, you know? And a lot of them, you know, are like women and people of color. And just to see like everyone cheering that when they win an award like finally.
Louis Virtel Yeah.
Ira Madison III You know, and then you think about the people, you know, walking around with multiple awards who didn’t really need them.
Louis Virtel Right. Sure.
Ira Madison III The entire Modern Family cast. Just struting around.
Louis Virtel Well, by the crowd, which reminds me actually of this Emmys telecast, because what you mostly got was a bunch of repeat winners. You know, like succession is won before Ted Lasso was won before. And I don’t think there’s a person on this earth who thinks this season was as good as the first season of Ted Lasso. You know, you had Julia Garner winning again, I think this time, because we were we threw her in a dungeon with Madonna for a couple of hours recently, and she, we’re scared for her.
Ira Madison III Of Murray Bartlett. That was a fun win.
Louis Virtel Now, okay, here’s my question about that. This is like a philosophical question. Would you pick him to win from that cast? Because let me say something. He was great on the show and memorable and like a bitter older gay guy, which I believe is an underrepresented demographic in pop culture. Please watch the movie Bros, by the way, where this will be represented yet again. Cute film. The reviews are out, as you well know. But Murray Bartlett, did he win? And this is a spoiler. So if you’re still intending to watch the White Lotus, you better shut this off and not ask me about it. Did he win because that character died?
Ira Madison III I think he won because that character did drugs and ate Lukas Gage’s ass.
Louis Virtel You think the ass eating is what ultimately did it?
Ira Madison III I think people remember that character, to be honest. And I think when you look at this category, it’s a lot of unmemorable things. I mean, I’m sure Dopesick was good to whoever watched it.
Louis Virtel I have to say, I was happy for Michael Keaton. I’m like, I don’t know that I know somebody who watched Dopesick and my girl Mare Winningham is in that. So I’ve got to get on that.
Ira Madison III And, you know, Steve Zahn and Jake Lacy are fun in the White Lotus. I would actually say, like Jake Lacy’s like probably my other like favorite male who was on the show. Like, he was mesmerizing as an asshole in that. But Murray was just like he was dominating the culture for a minute, you know, like that role was really good. And Seth has. Seth was fine, but, you know, we didn’t really care for him and Tommy, so.
Louis Virtel Right, but I will say Steve Zahn on that show memorably like a word I would not use in any other context. I feel like this is in the character description, such a cuck that I thought that was very memorable and very in the spirit of the kind of spineless whiteness at the core of White Lotus, like sort of like centrally what that show is about. That said, I love Murray Bartlett. It just reminds me of, for instance, one year this guy who was on Damages, Zelikow Ivanek, who is also on like True Blood and stuff, he won for Damages. And throughout the series, you’re waiting for him to have this Emmy winning moment. And then finally, there’s something is revealed about the character, and then he kills himself, which, of course, is bracing. And you see it on the screen. But I always wonder, are we mistaking a character dying for good acting? Sometimes I wonder.
Ira Madison III Hmm. And while he didn’t win, Jared Harris was nominated for Madmen. You know, after Lane Pryce committed suicide.
Louis Virtel Right, right, right. Yeah, that’s to me, that’s sort of typical of what would win the support and guest arc in a drama, for example.
Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, that’s why, you know, I think people should give Friends more credit, you know, because I think that, like every guest star who won on that show, you know, they die in their episode, Like Friends is a more morose show than people give it credit.
Louis Virtel That’s right. When Phoebe shoots Glenn Close. Right on the show. I have to say, that was, the audience was clearly studs.
Ira Madison III Um, obviously Jennifer Coolidge also won for the White Lotus. And that was a great moment because another woman that like everyone loves.
Louis Virtel Yes, very same band. And I think the word moment is correct because she was on stage for seemingly seconds before they pulled the cane on her.
Ira Madison III They said, get off, bitch.
Louis Virtel Now, here’s the thing. If you’re the producer, here’s my question. And Jennifer Coolidge is up there and she’s she is being funny, but she is also slightly discombobulated, like kind of like trying to get to the beginning of her speech. Do you play the music?
Ira Madison III Absolutely not.
Louis Virtel You just like, okay, if you’re the producer, you would just let it go.
Ira Madison III I’m like, you got the.
Louis Virtel You got the suits breathing down your neck. You’re like, okay. Time is money, Ira. They’re saying. And and what’s happening inside your head?
Ira Madison III A speech like that is like, I don’t know, sixes in craps. Okay, you let it ride.
Louis Virtel First of all, you’re going to run this network like the craps table like in Guys and Dolls. First of all, nicely, nicely. Johnson, over here.
Ira Madison III Well, this the Emmys is the oldest established permanent floating awards show in Hollywood.
Louis Virtel Yes, very rad. Shout out to my girl, Gene Simmons in Guys and Dolls, by the way while we’re on this topic. Anyway. Yeah, that’s said when they split her off and then she danced to the music. Come on. That’s somebody who’s been in eight Christopher Guest movies like just rolling with that. So funny.
Ira Madison III I think we have another Modern Family on our hands. TED Lasso.
Louis Virtel Right.
Ira Madison III Enough is enough and it is wild that I’m saying enough is enough after a second year of wins and like I think we remember I was a Ted Lasso Stan.
Louis Virtel Right.
Ira Madison III Like, I was proselytizing for this show, okay? I was showing up at people’s homes with pamphlets.
Louis Virtel Right. Telling them what soccer is, because we’re still confused here.
Ira Madison III Yeah. And quirky, homespun humor.
Louis Virtel Yeah. Right.
Ira Madison III So, you know, and now I’m like, I’m back to that thing where I’m like, Oh, yeah, the Emmys really just does. Like, they hook onto a show and then they keep giving it to people. You know.
Louis Virtel Let me say about that. I do respect that because what that means is you actually did like the show. You know, it’s not it’s not we’re giving it to people because it seems appropriate or it’s quote unquote, time to move on. It’s like if somebody is giving a great performance on a show, why wouldn’t you keep rewarding them? You know, I mean, it might not be fun for the home viewer. Ah, thrilling or unexpected, but like the expected is also right in terms of a performance that keeps going, you know?
Ira Madison III True. And honestly, listen, like no one is actually delivering a better lead actress in a comedy than Jean Smart right now.
Louis Virtel Totally right.
Ira Madison III You know, like and no one’s scripting a role for someone to do it.
Louis Virtel Right, no. Nobody has a problem with Jean Smart winning. Absolutely not. Please.
Ira Madison III Yeah. And it was actually nice to see Lee Jung Jae win for squid game.
Louis Virtel Yeah.
Ira Madison III He was so good. Like, he was. He was really. What pulled you into that fucking show? You know, like, amazing and beat out all the other people that you’d expect.
Louis Virtel Also, Squid Game did deserve something. The scale of that show, like just what it accomplished, they needed something. So,
Ira Madison III And it was like the biggest show. It’s. It’s still why I feel like Tom Cruise could get an Oscar nomination. I’m like Squid Game was the biggest show, you know, and it’s like it was television the past year. Just like Top Gun Maverick is brought back movies.
Louis Virtel Succession right now definitely is the new West Wing. And that we’re sort of making our way around to all the ensemble members, getting their moments on the Emmy days. And I was I felt particularly vindicated that Matthew Macfadyen, our Mr. Darcy finally got the win. I mean that character is so great and to me I consider it comeuppance for the fact that Pete Campbell and Mad Men never got the Emmy. So to me, this is Vincent Kartheiser Rising.
Ira Madison III Also shout out to Brian COx who, um, after, um, Succession won for Best Drama was asked if Succession is going to like come back again. Like we haven’t been renewed for season five, but he doesn’t want it to. Although I don’t know if there will be a fifth season. No one’s out there contracts renewed. Who knows how long it will go on. We don’t want it to overstay its welcome, like Billions that’s past its sell by date.
Louis Virtel In your face. Whoa.
Ira Madison III He is such is such a cunt and I love it.
Louis Virtel Oh, my God. I mean, yeah. This will have aired by now so I can talk about this. Brian Cox stopped by our little kiosk backstage with Guillermo. And I don’t know why we chose this for him, but we made him take a Which Succession Character Are You? BuzzFeed quiz. So he’s, like, scrolling on an iPad and picking things. This man on camera. He’s like, Which Hogwarts house are you? Hufflepuff. It’s like, so crazy to say. And he goes for and by the way, he does it twice and doesn’t get his character either time he gets Connor and then he gets Tom, which is very funny because of those two characters, you definitely don’t want to be. But, uh. no, I love just the the owned bastardliness, this bastardliness. We used to have this in Hollywood. You know, the Peter O’Toole’s. Yeah.
Ira Madison III Yeah. You know, my favorite country song? Where have All the Bastards Gone?
Louis Virtel Oh, yes. Paula Cole. That’s exactly what she was wondering. Every episode of Dawson’s Creek.
Ira Madison III And the answer was Dawson.
Louis Virtel The right here, Paula. Jesus.
Ira Madison III Justice for Pacey.
Louis Virtel Yeah.
Ira Madison III If they rebooted that I’d like to have Dawson dead and it just be Pacey’s Creek.
Louis Virtel I think that’s what everybody wants. I feel like when you talk about that show, Pacey, it comes up immediately and then everyone just stops talking about it. Did anything else happen at thesse Emmys that we were obsessed with?
Ira Madison III I’m obsessed with the fact that Saturday Night Live and still winning Outstanding Variety Sketch series and also the fact that there are only two to nominate that and A Black Lady Sketch Show. But with those two nominated, people were just like, sure SNL, you know?
Louis Virtel Yeah, right. And, well, it’s like John Oliver winning variety show again. We we were standing backstage and people are like, Oh, do you think this is our year? And everybody exchange glances like, Are you a fucking idiot? Absolutely not. That little fig nugent is going to take it again. Yeah.
Ira Madison III I loved Lizzo winning.
Louis Virtel Yes. Okay. I have a question about that show. Does it exist?
Ira Madison III Every time I log on to Amazon, there is an ad for it.
Louis Virtel That doesn’t mean they actually filmed it. Or that you can actually click on that. So who’s to say?
Ira Madison III Well, I mean, like the title lives up to itself, though. I’m watching out for the big girls.
Louis Virtel Right.
Ira Madison III But I’m not.
Louis Virtel Watching the big girls.
Ira Madison III Watch out implies you’re just noticing them.
Louis Virtel Right.
Ira Madison III Doesn’t that imply that I need to watch it?
Louis Virtel Yeah, right there. There, over there.
Ira Madison III And shout out to Zendaya, for just being Zendaya.
Louis Virtel Also, I guess she’s 11 foot seven.
Ira Madison III She’s tall.
Louis Virtel She wlaked, she walked on through. And I was like, it was giving like eight, eight children in a trench coat. I was very confused.
Ira Madison III She does put on a heel, but like I have a photo of like with Zendaya as like Jeremy Harris at like the premiere of Euphoria, the original season. And like, it’s no joke. Like, it’s right up to where we are.
Louis Virtel Whoa. I mean, that’s mind boggling. Also, you know, Geena Davis won a special Emmy, and that was like the last time we had an 11 foot four actress. And I really missed that, you know, like the Sigourney Weaver’s the actresses where we knew their trench coat sizes when they were on screen. That’s what I miss.
Ira Madison III And anyway, Zendaya deserves a win as long as she is trapped in that basement, acting out Sam Levinson’s fantasies.
Louis Virtel Yeah, she’s won two now. Most of the people that, like Brett Goldstein won his second. Julia Garner won her third. Yeah. Lots of repeat winners tonight.
Ira Madison III Yeah, well, the Emmys also like shout out to just like. The point we are in our careers now. Where half the people we see, like the Emmys broadcasts are just our friends now.
Louis Virtel I do have to say it’s I want to say it’s cool to see whomever Bowen Yang up there. And yet also I’m like. But what happened to untouchable glamor? These are just people who hang out with me in Palm Springs. Well, I sort of miss it.
Ira Madison III Well, I mean, that’s what happens when we peek behind the curtain, you know? Does it. Does anyone. Does anyone who actually knows him thinks like Leonardo DiCaprio is glamor?
Louis Virtel Right. That’s true. I mean, I saw that. We all remember the dancing Coachella video. And I want to say that’s not the whole story.
Ira Madison III But I mean, like, my baby, my my my husband, Andrew Garfield, you know, glamorous to us. But, you know, I’m sure he’s just, I don’t know, sitting around talking about, talking about Great British Bake Off or something with everyone else who really knows.
Louis Virtel Right.
Ira Madison III What does he what does he think? Actually, I wonder what Andrew Garfield thinks about?
Louis Virtel Oh, I think all British people are. I don’t know about brilliant, but the word of the hour, bastards. So I’m sure he has big opinions about who sucks. I bet he has lots of opinions about Don’t Worry, darling.
Ira Madison III Sure.
Louis Virtel I want to hear them.
Ira Madison III I just want to watch, I wish, I wish we had Don’t Worry, Darling stuff to talk about this week.
Louis Virtel I know you would think we do. I mean, we were. We were deeply fed. I was, like, patting my stomach, like Henry VIII.
Ira Madison III How pissed off do you think Warner Brothers is that that movie didn’t come out on Friday.
Louis Virtel Right. No. No kidding. Wait, before we forget. What did you think of Keenan as host?
Ira Madison III I thought Keenan was good. I love Keenan.
Louis Virtel The opening number with like the dancing and stuff. I felt I was watching a teacher’s assembly. You know, the teachers have come together to present the history of the Emmys for us. But you know what? It was cute, by the way. Have a quaint award show. I don’t need it to be naughty or scandalous. Right up top.
Ira Madison III Well, you know, I think the scandal came from Jerrod Carmichael’s outfit.
Louis Virtel That’s true. Yes. The the Kodiak bear that perished. So that he could wear that. I, I lamented the.
Ira Madison III Skin the bear from the Polar Express.
Louis Virtel Yes. Which, by the way, among bears that need to die. That one is number one, because that movie is an F.
Ira Madison III Yeah. Him. But not the Coca-Cola bear. I love him.
Louis Virtel Oh, please. Now he’s on our side. But like the Polar Express will go down as the first of like Tom Hanks is like six very dubious decisions. And he’s made like four of those in the past year now. So just keep it in mind.
Ira Madison III I think we’ve lost I think we’ve lost Tom Hanks, unfortunately.
Louis Virtel Yeah.
Ira Madison III You know, the movie roles, the Chet Hanks of it.
Louis Virtel Right. Chat has taken over.
Ira Madison III I don’t know.
Louis Virtel Mm hmm.
Ira Madison III I mean, I’ve heard very good things about the new Julia Roberts and George Clooney film. And I’m like, who is going to free Tom Hanks and just put him in a comedy again?
Louis Virtel Right. Yes. Please date somebody who runs a bookstore again. This is what we want from Tom Hanks.
Ira Madison III Be quirky. He was like accessible, quirky, quirky, but like a quirky white man. But you didn’t think he was going to, like, blow up a building?
Louis Virtel Yeah, he had a conscience, a little bit of neurosis. And then on the side was pretty funny.
Ira Madison III Yeah. Anyway, the Emmys just made me miss Tom Hanks.
Louis Virtel There we go. Yes.
Ira Madison III All right. When we’re back, I’m joined by Edward Enninful to discuss his new book, A Visible Man.
Ira Madison III [AD]
Ira Madison III He is the editor in chief of British Vogue. And his new book, Invisible Man, a memoir, is out now. We are delighted to welcome the Keep It the ever inspiring Edward Enninful. Hi.
Edward Enniful Hi. Thank you for having me on your wonderful show.
Ira Madison III Yeah, thank you for being here. Also, the first question I want to ask just I mean, you know. What does it mean to be the editor in chief of British Vogue? Like, what does. What does that entail? I feel like our listener is here, like know, only like we know American Vogue. We know what we’ve seen over the years. But, like, what does that mean for you?
Speaker 3 I mean, you could say it’s similar to what Anna Wintour does at American Vogue, which you see over see you see the content of the magazine, the photo shoots, the what’s basically the whole magazine. But the British thing, that’s as much as the magazine. So you ever see also the website, the digital content, entertainment know a whole whole what you call it. It’s not just a magazine anymore. It was just a whole brand.
Ira Madison III Yeah. It’s everywhere at every facet. We just edit too. So I’m assuming you’re still in New York. Have they recovered from Fashion Week? What does Fashion Week look like for you?
Edward Enniful I mean fashion.
Ira Madison III And what did this year look like as opposed to the previous years, especially coming out of like quarantine and all of that?
Edward Enniful I mean, you know, for a long time we didn’t see each other. Fashion Week had to be halted. We sort of the industry pivoted to video. So there was a lot of video. Is that a showing by film? But now it’s back full steam. The New York shows everybody was there and you had a feeling people wanted to be together again. You know, designers wanted to be together again. And it’s a great chance for designers to show. The message when you’re at this show as opposed to sometimes maybe a video. So it was really like the togetherness was good that we’ve been separated for so long. So, yeah, energy was good.
Ira Madison III Do you? How do you feel like the separation has added to the fashion world and what do you think you know, maybe is missing since the, you know, time when people weren’t together? Yeah.
Edward Enniful I mean, I think, you know. Creativity sort of needs connection to human connection. So I feel that a lot of people came back more inspired than ever, more inspired than ever. But the beauty now is that you don’t have to have a runway show. You can also say, I’m going to show a video. I’m going to make a film, because that’s what COVID told us. Show, video going hand in hand, really a new way forward for the industry. So, you know, young the young designers, the models have a say. If you don’t have money to survive, make some video.
Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Um, just to wrap up, I guess, like the Fashion Week stuff, like, were there any newer sort of designers that you were really inspired by this time and who sort of shocked you from, you know, the the expected people like, you know, the old guard, but who sort of like still gave you like a oh, this is something new. I wasn’t expecting it.
Edward Enniful I mean, I have to say, there was something always quite exciting when a designer like Kim Jones Fendi comes to New York and designs a collection with Marc Jacobs. Just I mean, I never thought I would see that in my sort of my lifetime, but it was really, really great how to sort of tides of the industry can kind of come together and create a New York moment. You know, what’s the event? At least on the runway? It was kind of moment. So I think that New York was amazing. And then there was a Vogue World show broke of a show where all the models.
Ira Madison III Yeah. Saw the clips from that looked so fantastic. Fantastic.
Edward Enniful Yeah, I think that was good. And then you had the young designers like Telfar and, and a host of other was doing like two single young designers as they all went and so on. But it was a great moment. The energy was amazing when you.
Ira Madison III Mm hmm. When you look at designers and you know who’s going to be featured in Vogue, not just in the pages, but maybe on the cover, you know, in styling. Like what of the, like, iconic covers you have? What what goes into that process? Is it does the celebrity and their team have a say? Is it who you choose to style or shoot the cover? You know, like we see Beyoncé on the cover, you know, like who decides what Beyonce’s wearing, you know, who decides what Naomi’s wearing on her cover, you know?
Edward Enniful I mean, normally, you know, editors on both of those shoots, you kind of work out an idea. You go back and forth it with Beyonce, Beyoncé with Naomi. Okay, this is the kind of idea we think that we should do this photographer. Here are the clothes. And of course, you know, you have also sometimes you haveme so advertisers to think about, advertisers to think about. Or sometimes you can just be like, let’s just look. Christopher, John, Roger, this is a new moment. Whatever moment suits that picture. I think that being so in a horse, you know, you need a major silhouette. So let’s do a liar, liar. And then Naomi with a baby, you know you have a baby, so you need a Valentino. So it’s nice to have a movement on on a show like set with doing this. And if it doesn’t work, we still have to keep focusing on so must be able to pivot.
Ira Madison III Hmm. What’s it been like with the process of who’s going to be on the cover? I love when people try to figure out like who’s going to be on any of the Vogue covers that it’s usually by who has like a movie coming out or who’s getting buried or, you know, who has an album coming. And I assume, you know, you like how the calendar of looking at those items. But then there’s also people where it’s like you just, you know, they get a cover because this is a moment for them.
Edward Enniful I mean, I always say, you know, whoever is reflecting the zeitgeist. So yes, it could be some a movie coming out, an album coming out, or it could be like, just want to shock. You know, like I remember in lockdown, you know, they said all 60 year olds should stay at home where like Judi Dench, she’s 85. Oh, yeah. I was on the cover because they were out there, you know, putting their lives on the line. So here they were real people. So I think sometimes you just got to go with the zeitgeist. Well, of course, they always people lined up, you know, getting the Vogue cover. Thank God. It’s still an amazing thing for most people. But you should also be able to sort of surprise a bit. The zeigeist and element of surprise as well as that.
Ira Madison III Yeah. And I mean, you know, what goes into you talked about a New York moment before, you know, for like Fashion Week and those things. What would you describe as sort of a what’s a British moment? You know, because like, you know, I’m an American, you know, so like what’s a moment, you know, you would you’re at cover, you’re like, well, this means something for the UK specifically, you know, like the cover with the queen, you know, or this or something, or thinking of how you’re going to honor her too, now that she’s passed.
Edward Enniful Yeah. I mean, you know, the British moment, it’s always sort of a very, very creative moment. Britain is not necessarily, you know, we don’t have the biggest sort of industry when it comes to, you know, like huge houses. And but we have young, young designers who get plucked by the world. So you think of McQueen, you think of John Galliano, you know, J.W. Anderson.They start small. So England is almost like a hotbed of ideas. So that’s always a British moment will always take your breath away. It’s always like. But let me take this and let me cut it and let me read deconstructed. Let me put it together. You know, it comes from a need, you know, there’s not much money in Britain. You no designs that need to be created. So that’s one thing. And the queen, you know, the head of you know, she’s now head of state and and she’s passed and, you know, for the next it’s been almost five days, but for ten days the country is in mourning, you know, and we all sort of actually seized on the British folks sort of website. A lot of websites just really pay tribute to this woman who gave her life sort of. A lifetime of service. So the country is really in mourning.
Ira Madison III Mm hmm. And she gave fashion moments, too. You know, you look overall, that’s colorful in the photos. Yeah.
Edward Enniful We did something in the magazine once. What we did. We have the queen. All the different rainbow colors that she wears. Those coats. Incredible. I mean, such a great style. You know, it’s influenced so many designers from each product to Marc Jacobs. You know, her style was really, really unique.
Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Um, brief aside, like, how did it feel? Big wrapped up in your wedding festivities. And then the initial report where it was like the queen had died. Months ago, what it was like. But on the way to your wedding, like, what did you even think about hearing that?
Edward Enniful And I’m just like, who made that story up? It it was insane. You know, there we were, you know, it was it was quite a close wedding outside of London at my friend’s ancestral home, LONGLEAT. So we were in a bubble. And then can you believe we come out of the wedding the next day like and I seethe Queen passed on the way to my wedding. Someone said to me yesterday, Oh, my God, you killed the Queen twice. I’m like. It was on solstice. I’ve never met the Queen. She would not want to wait for my wedding. But I don’t know where it came from. I would have loved for her to come to my wedding. But unfortunately, she was ill.
Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, the wedding did look gorgeous. I love. I feel like. I feel like that’s such a picturesque place for a wedding. I have two friends who just got married recently in Oxford at Blenheim Palace. And it’s yeah, it’s just that when you’re there arriving, it just feels like the English countryside, something about it just says wedding.
Edward Enniful Landscape Brittain has saidto it’s pretty amazing. And, you know, and the look of the village around the wedding, everybody was so excited, you know? And you do bring a lot of money to the economy because a lot of people have to book hotels and. In a place to stay and places to eat. It was a really great moment. Yeah.
Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Right. Um, well, let’s talk about your history a bit in this book. You know, I was really intrigued by the stuff you were writing about, you know, your time at ID. You know, like when you were first coming up, you know, in the city, um, how do you look back on, you know, sort of what you learned then and what was it about, like the energy of the fashion world then as opposed to now?
Edward Enniful I mean, I started at ID in the very, very late eighties, early nineties, you know, and we really didn’t even know it was the fashion industry in Paris or New York or Milan. And we just wanted to sort of create images that reflected our realities, which was we go down the market, take the clothes, we put it together, we try to customize each other. But I remember being at ID, I started when I was in Paris when I was 18 and my girl, I had to do everything on my own. I didn’t have an assistant. But the beauty of that time was I would work in the art department. I will shoot a cover. Style a cover. Write the shopping pages, run around London trying to get tidbits. Do the ID club nights. Being advertised and learning how to sell. And you know what it did? It gave me the perfect insight into how to run a magazine, which is really helping me today. But at the time, I just didn’t survive. I was so young. I’m like, I’m not going back home, you know, I’m going to make it. And the energy at the time was amazing. You have people like Kate Moss starting out, Naomi Campbell, you know, designers like John Galliano, and we all like how to make London happen after the Big Eighties success. So, you know, we did grunge, you know, which was like a rejection of anything that was eighties inspired. And we just helped each other, really looked after each other. The energy was what we went out all the time. We never stayed at home. Yeah, you go out and then you go to the club.
Ira Madison III Yeah, what were like the hotspots of then? Are any of them still around? I’m sure most of them are gone.
Edward Enniful Oh my god. They’re all gone. There was the Wet Club. There was the Mud Club. Earlier there was a club called Shoom. That was the Ministry of Sound. I mean, you name it. And we were in every one of them, every single one of them. I remember them because we all work together, we all played together. So we will all go out. And it’s a drug off social club. So when it goes off, we went to work. That’s what we did.
Ira Madison III Yeah.
Edward Enniful You know, I don’t have the energy now.
Ira Madison III I love, just like I love. You know, I love hearing about just that era because, you even think about, you know, the fashion then, you know, pre pre then like MTV pre like, you know, networks airing things all the time where you could sort of get them globally. Yeah. Like if imagine even what it was like, like finding out about a new designer or like how people would get their stuff across the pond.
Edward Enniful I mean, you know, finding out about American designers, you had to rely on your friends. You know, we have lots of sort of like minded people across the pond who were like, oh, my God, that’s Justin. Just drop this or this young American. That would be like, Oh, my God, we have Julie Blaine. We have House of music and your culture. And there were only two magazines really in England that dealt with underground culture. One was ID and one was the Shites. And then I think in America you had like early, early issues of Details and, you know, you had Suzanne Bar’s story, these incredible parties. And they’ll come to London. I remember going to one of Suzanne Bar’s party kids dressed up and and I saw for the first time a drag queen on stage, and it was RuPaul. So it was so incredible, underground, knew each other, sort of both cities. And that’s how you really find today where everyone you can find out anything on social media. We didn’t have that back then.
Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Suzanne Bar still throws a great party.
Edward Enniful She was amazing.
Ira Madison III It’s so much fun.
Edward Enniful I love Susan Bars. You know. She would bring out all these designers and all these clothes that we would just soak it up and those soak up some of the British energy.
Ira Madison III Mm hmm. What? Is there any fun moment you remember from early days of, like, you know, like your Kate, the Naomi’s like the icons. Like before they were the icons, like a moments of like you even like your early nights out or like them going to places was like people didn’t even know who they were, but they made sure people did know who they were.
Edward Enniful I mean, I always talk about in my book when I talk about missing Kate and I was I was modeling and I was 16 and I went to a casting and then we had no cash. So that one job, every model wanted it and it was a pepe job. And I went in and, you know, I was young and, you know, I was always so insecure anyway that even though I was modeling and I’m sitting there, this girl will. This girl walks in scraggly hair sort of and uneven teeth. But just like when I tell you, literally lit up the room. Even at that age, I was like, Oh my God, that girl’s the girl I’ll be seeing in the face of this baby and little pictures of her here. And I’m like, That’s the star. And then we became friends. And every nightclub you see Kate smoking every night, club smoking drug came to her house to go to her wardrobe. And before you know it, the sun was up. She was always doing a fashion show. You know, it’s just not about the outfit of the outfit. And Naomi, we met in Paris when I was like, you know, it’s this young model that everyone’s talking about. And she’s going out with Mike Tyson, are willing to go for the cover. And I remember going to Paris and we saw each other. She was so cute she had the Whitney Houston curls, the moment when she had curls. That was 92, 93. And we do the shoot and she’s that come with me we’re going to Dublin you know we have a plane and I’m like, Oh yeah, I’d like to come. I had all but $20 in my pocket. So even then, we call it. You’ve been Naomi’d. You couldn’t, you know, put it on the road to visit Naomi. Before you know it, you’re on a plane to India or China or wherever. You don’t know what happened, how you got there, but you’ve been Naomi’d.
Ira Madison III I love that. I love that. Um, when you first, you know, joined British Vogue, you know, what was what’s going through your mind? You know, this is an institution, you know, and how did you want to shake it up a bit? You had just come from Vogue Italia to like do it. I did. I remember I was in I was there was first year in New York, actually, 2007 and 2008. But I remember running to the newsstand and getting the all black issue.
Edward Enniful Oh, yes.
Ira Madison III Yeah. Everybody was talking about that. You know, like what were you came to British Vogue. Like what? What were you like? I got to do this. And what were you like? We need to not do this anymore.
Edward Enniful Yeah. I mean, for me, when I hit, I mean, it’s like I’ve been an Italian vogue. I been at American Vogue. And I’ve been at W. And for me, I just sort of an institution that needed to change. I looked around and all my friends, you know, they were all different, different races, different ages, different religious backgrounds, sexuality. I’m like, for me, a magazine has to reflect this. This is just what the world is. So I’m like, if I’m going to create a magazine, I’m going to create a magazine that showed beauty in all its colors, all its shapes and forms. And really, that’s what I did, you know, and I kept saying, you know, I’ll probably get fired, but I don’t care because I would rather get what I believe, what the world should be then trying to, you know, tiptoe around fashion should be. And in 2017, it wasn’t a conversation that people were having diversity, inclusive inclusivity. So fast forward, you know, and it was a, you know, in the beginning it was push back, but in the end, everybody accepted it. And now I look around at all the other magazines and it’s not a big deal having, you know, a curvy girl or or gay woman or an older woman in her seventies. And I feel like, you know, that’s that was a good shake up that it needed to happen. So it’s just what we did. And I’m very, very, very proud of that. And what we stopped doing was just make it all about one type of woman. You know, because that wasn’t even good. That’s not even good business when you think about it. So when people say, you know, I always thought, you know, if you can see it, you can be it. So British Vogue success really is that people see themselves in it every month, not in a special issue. Every month you open whatever. It’s a rainbow coalition of incredible people. So I’m very proud of that.
Ira Madison III No. Two things I want to ask you about that. One, it’s so interesting that, you know, you had to talk about bringing in like, you know, like this inclusivity into the fashion world, because I feel like people who are raised on it and, you know, want to be a part of that world like that, especially where you think of like middle America, what they think of the fashion world. They just think it’s all like queer people, like every type of like trans are like different identity. And it’s interesting, you know, even here that like it wasn’t that.
Edward Enniful No.
Ira Madison III You know, from coming up where you were started out to where you started at British Vogue. Like, was there a specific time or a magazine that you might have worked at or not worked at where you were like, that was a model of like what you thought the fashion industry should be. You know, like was there one place that was like really getting it in like a sort of like it had a lot of different voices or has it always sort of been stagnant.
Edward Enniful Know, funny enough that only magazines that had that when I was growing up was ID. ID magazine and the Face. And I remember because I was part of it was so young when you look at the world that it was it was like what we do now at British Vogue, it was all the races, all different ages, sizes, religions, and that’s really what I carried onto British Vogue, you know what what the world looked like. I always say, you know, the world should really, fashion should reflect the world we live in. You know, so I’ve always carried that with me. Yeah, ID and the Face kickin it back then and they still are. And so really that’s an ethos that I, I learned from a very young age that fashions really should be inclusive. It should include everybody.
Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Yeah, I love the Face. I did a, um, I did a Travis Scott profile for Face cover, like, a few years ago. But, yeah, I love them. I love them over there. Yeah. Um, the second one, question is, you can’t miss the fact that everyone is always like the British Vogue covers are iconic and it’s always compared to American Vogue. What do you think is the, you know, sort of flavor that you have going on with the British Vogue covers and why people love them like they’re having their moment this year and last year at everything? Like people love a British Vogue cover. And what do you think? Just, you know, American magazine covers are missing in general.
Edward Enniful I mean. No. I feel like an American does a great job and is meant to do that. And in England, you know, we talk about the English. What we do in England is we always experiment. We, you know, we you know, we don’t have to sort of please millions of millions of people. So we just there’s more room for experimentation. And and that’s what we do. And we just go with our instincts and, you know, we don’t you know, we do the activities together. And it was like a gatefold black and white of 30 activists on the biggest issue of the year. But, you know, we just you know, like I said, we just take a lot of chances. And that’s how that’s how we did from the very minute I thought it was about taking chances and and showing a new way, to show a cover.
Ira Madison III I love that. When you would you sit down to write a book like this, what do you decide goes in? What, like what did you decide you’re leaving out? Like what? What’s the process of writing a book as opposed to, you know, guiding a book that is full of pieces that other people have created? You know, this is this is your piece.
Edward Enniful I mean, obviously, when you sit down to write about. Your life in any way you must for me, you must be prepared to let the world know the moments that matter. And there were so many moments when I think they could have come to give them naturally, because I started from when I was young. So end it now. You know, over eight chapters. So I just thought there were certain stories that I wanted to tell that, you know, it wasn’t just about the successes, but it was also about the failures in my life. You know, it was about the suffering, you know, sort of overwork, dealing with drinking when you’re at a young age, you know, dealing with health issues, you know, anemia. So those hard moments coupled with fun moments. Were very important. I mean, I wanted to show the young generation, basically, that when you see somebody like yourself, myself, that’s a story. Like, we didn’t just get here. And that story wasn’t just all of our success. So for me, it was about missing those stories that was really tough, as well as some fun moments and a bit too many fun moments. So, you know, might be another book. Who knows?
Ira Madison III Sure. Yeah. But we definitely did a big one with like photos and like, you know, we need one of those we need one of those moments. You know, I love a I love a memoir that’s also about someone who’s worked in fashion. Were there any memoirs that sort of like inspired you as you were writing this? Or was that you’ve always, you know, just sort of like loved to read and they don’t even have to be fashion memoirs as well, like other memoirs that might have inspired you.
Edward Enniful I mean, there were so many memoirs that I like, you know, I love I loved Michelle Obama’s memoir. I love Andre Tally’s memoir. I mean, like Tina Brown, Vanity Fair Diaries. But I just knew that my story was so different, you know, sort of leaving having to flee a country to another country, arriving, being penniless, being alone. My story was very different from everybody. So really I wanted to write books that sort of give you an insight into fashion. But also just so young people or people who have always been seen as outside, people who’ve been othered, which is really what I was, black, gay, working class, all of that. But that you can make it in your industry through sort of being resilient. So for me, that was really what was on my mind. But you can make it when the odds are stacked up against you. So yeah, it’s a memoir, but it really I think a lot of people expected, you know, here we go, this party, that part of this party. And that really wasn’t my. Was part of my story, but it wasn’t really all of it.
Ira Madison III I mean, what I really love about it is, is it’s very. It’s very frank, but it’s also very inspiring. You know, it’s obviously you know like you’d yeah we would your othered, you’d never want to compare people just because you know they’re just because they’re both black, just because they’re both gay, just because they both been industry, you know. But it’s I feel like it’s not hard to read this after having read, you know, like Andre, you know, book and you know, I compare this a bit more to, um. When after he passed, you know, people were talking about the chiffon trenches, you know, like some of the sadness of that. This reminded me a bit more of, you know, like ALT, like his original memoir, know that one had so much promise and hope in it. But I don’t really think it was.
Edward Enniful A good one.
Ira Madison III Yeah. And yeah, you know.
Edward Enniful Andre was so kind to me, like, when I was, you know, I was the only one in Europe, essentially. That was the only token, if you want to say that. But, you know, like I said, I brought my friends with me and Pat McGrath was my best friend and Naomi and Ben Skupin and we became a little crew in the fashion industry and Andre was always kind to me. It was a kind words for me, supportive words, you know. And I always if it wasn’t him, I wouldn’t be here because he paved the way. And he was the only one really of of his generation to.
Ira Madison III Yeah. Lastly, I just want to ask, you know, besides fashion and your work, like what else in the arts? What creatively inspires you?
Edward Enniful Oh, my god. I mean, I love and I love a lot of art, which is really sort of inspiring to me. I mean, limit your films. Incredible. You know, I love like oh one gets so other art always inspires me. But I also love music and I feel like we’re into what I call the great flat, where, you know, we do fashion, music, film, all go hand in hand. You know, I’m inspired by culture. Anything under the umbrella of culture. So it could be a good movie. It could be a good film, a good book, you know? I’m just always curious. I think you can’t lose to curiosity.
Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Well, thank you so much for being here.
Edward Enniful Thank you for having me.
Ira Madison III It’s been really fun. Invisible Man. Yes. People need to read it. Thank you for being here on the show.
Edward Enniful My pleasure. I hope to meet you soon.
Ira Madison III Invisible Man, a memoir is out now. Wherever you get your books.
Ira Madison III <A.D.>.
Ira Madison III Queen Elizabeth II. She’s dead.
Louis Virtel This is me finding out right now.
Ira Madison III Oh, I’m so sorry.
Louis Virtel Dammit.
Ira Madison III I know you were such a fan. She died on Thursday at the age of 96 after a statement was released saying the queen’s doctors are concerned for Her Majesty’s health. Various members of the royal family rushed to her Scottish home and her death was announced later that day. And let’s just say. She’s been dying for a minute.
Louis Virtel She must have been.
Ira Madison III I mean, come on.
Louis Virtel Also, what a strange.
Ira Madison III Way she was rushed to the hospital. Yeah. And that all of a sudden people arrived there within seconds.
Louis Virtel No. The statement being like, Oh, they’re concerned for her health. Oh, now you are. Minutes before she died. Liars.
Ira Madison III Yeah. Anyway, a lot going on this week. Hmm. Hmm.
Louis Virtel Hmm hmm hmm.
Ira Madison III And it brought out a lot of insane people.
Louis Virtel Well, also, everybody had, like, the expected takes. Like, how can you mourn this woman when she presided over this, this and this? Like, we don’t know the royals are, you know, historically a trashy whatever, but whatever. Like, I expect that so that, you know, I’m not saying I’m unhappy to see it or mad to see it. I expected to see it. But you were never going to get, like, uniform. Let’s let’s have a merry parade in this woman’s honor.
Ira Madison III Right. Which is. Which is good, you know? And, like, people deserve to be angry with the crown and colonialism, and it’s it’s actually wild. How many people came out in defense of, like, you must revere the crown and like the monarchy. And I’m like, okay, some of you are American and this is very weird.
Louis Virtel Yeah. No, I this will be the first and last time I ever drag this person. But Liz Phair had a very bizarre tweet being like, Shut up, the queen’s been wonderful for 70 years. I was like, What? Elizabeth Clarke Fair. What is happening? The Winnetka, Illinois, jumped out. Yeah.
Ira Madison III She blocked me.
Louis Virtel What?
Ira Madison III So, I don’t know. She got to become an on Keep It anytime soon.
Louis Virtel What did you do?
Ira Madison III So I responded.
Louis Virtel Oh, no. No you didn’t. Think of me.
Ira Madison III Yeah, I responded. Well, that’s not very whip smart of you. Yes.
Louis Virtel Unfortunately. Funny, unfortunately. Great album, by the way. I literally have it on my wall behind me. If you watch it, you’re watching the YouTube show. You can see Whip-Smart right there.
Ira Madison III If you play it backwards, you can hear the Queen’s Christmas address from 1984.
Louis Virtel Okay.
Ira Madison III Liz’s favorite. Her favorite. Sandra Bernheart too.
Louis Virtel What did she do?
Ira Madison III She tweeted about the queen.
Louis Virtel No, she’s done a couple songs over the past 15 years, too, so that sort of that scans. I was surprised by Liz.
Ira Madison III Yeah. I was like, What is going on, baby? But I really will say that like people who are obsessed with the monarchy and the crown, it’s it’s baffling the like I there was a report that the viewership of the crown jumped up by 400% over the weekend.
Louis Virtel Like you’re going to get new information about the queen from this very dramatized series.
Ira Madison III The people who turn it thinking, oh, like she died. Like, was that the last episode that happened?
Louis Virtel Right. Yeah. Oh, this is the news now. I’ll just turn it on. Claire Foy, that was one of the definitive performances, not just as the Queen, but royalty performances, ever. I mean, when the Crown came out, I almost feel like we were inundated with news about how lavish it was. And we were because it was slow moving. We’re like, is there any, like actual historical interest here enough to make it good? And this show is fucking amazing. Like, we’ll be watching the Crown for years and years and years.
Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Who else have you loved who’ve played the queen?
Louis Virtel The Queen? Well, 2006 is a very specific best actress year. It’s when Helen Mirren won for the Queen. But really, there is an argument for everybody in that category, and I think that’s the year I go back and forth on the most. Because you’ve got Kate Winslet and Little Children, arguably, or one of her deepest performances ever on screen. You’ve got Meryl Streep and The Devil Wears Prada. Literally the only knock against her is maybe that’s not a lead performance, but of course, it’s the iconic performance from that movie and certainly her most devastating comic performance. You’ve got Volver, Penelope Cruz, come on. I mean, like Almodovar, underrepresented in Oscar history anyway. And then that performance so lived and so fabulous. And then you’ve got Judi Dench and Notes on a Scandal, which has a lesbian ever been more terrifying?
Ira Madison III Mm, that’s fair. You know what?
Louis Virtel Outside of Sandra Bernhard.
Ira Madison III Mine might be shocking.
Louis Virtel Go ahead.
Ira Madison III Vanessa Redgrave.
Louis Virtel Oh, and Mary, Queen of Scots are what?
Ira Madison III In in Pixar’s Cars. She played the cars.
Louis Virtel I just want to say.
Ira Madison III The queen, the.
Louis Virtel Amount of the amount of credit I gave you, I thought you had seen the movie Mary Queen of Scots. And you are talking about fucking Cars. I have not seen Cars. Go ahead. Explain what she achieves in Cars.
Ira Madison III She achieves a kind of.
Louis Virtel Yeah, go ahead.
Ira Madison III Presence and tenacity that will, you know, it’s there were essays written about it in Cahiers du Cinema.
Louis Virtel I Oh, I’m sure. Is that a Post-it note? You slid into Cahiers du cinema?
Ira Madison III It is. It is. It was when I interned there. Briefly.
Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. They’re like, We got to get rid of this guy. What does he work for? BuzzFeed. He should work there.
Ira Madison III But no, I also would agree, you know, obviously, you know, I like Kristin Scott Thomas.
Louis Virtel Just like her. Anyway, I like when she turns up on a red carpet looking wacky.
Ira Madison III Yeah, I’ve seen, like, clips of it, but she played the queen in the audience, like, on stage. So.
Louis Virtel Correct. Correct. I mean, I think my favorite performance of a royal ever still. I want to say we talked about this best actress here, too. In fact, I already brought up Gene Simmons earlier tonight, Genevieve Bujold in Anne of the Thousand Days. Have you ever seen this movie?
Ira Madison III No.
Louis Virtel Okay. So it’s her as Anne Boleyn and Richard Burton as Henry the Eighth. And it basically treats Anne Boleyn like she’s crazy, like a fox. She’s somebody who’s obsessed with power. And then, of course, obviously, she gets beheaded eventually, but she’s trying to wrest power and she’s like scheming and using the people around the king. And for a three hour movie, and it is literally 3 hours. She is amazing. And also, I mean, we’ve seen Genevieve Bujold in like Dead Ringers. She’s in the House of Yes, if you remember that movie. But yes, yes. This movie, it’s just so much fun. Watching her try to correct history, basically trying to outsmart, you know, a world of men that she’s surrounded by. And I don’t know that I’d give her the win that year, because that’s Maggie Smith in the prime of Miss Jean Brodie. And I, as I’ve said previously, it’s that role is basically Mary Poppins for gay bastards.
Ira Madison III Listen, you talking about Anne Bolyn and we’re talking about other royals. Like one of my favorite trashy films is The Other Boleyn Girl.
Louis Virtel I don’t think I’ve seen it.
Ira Madison III Natalie Portman. Scarlett Johansson. Eric Bana. That movie is beautiful trash.
Louis Virtel What happens in the Other Bolyn Girl.
Ira Madison III Kristin Scott Thomas plays Elizabeth Boleyn in it. You’ve got Jim Sturges, you’ve got Mark Rylance, you’ve got Eddie Redmayne, Juno Temple. Andrew Garfield’s In it.
Louis Virtel While we’re on this topic, can I formally request that Mark Rylance stop dressing like a silent film star? I find it annoying and creepy. You’ll just see like an ensemble of actors that’s like, oh, who’s. Who’s Stan Laurel over there? Oh, it’s Mark Rylance and his dress like the fucking Monopoly guy.
Ira Madison III Yeah. You know, it’s sort of about. You know, the the alleged incest and everything that happened, you know, and and, you know, when she’s imprisoned and I think it’s fun and I think it’s trashy. Peter Morgan did the screenplay. So.
Louis Virtel Oh, we love that. Peter Morgan is trustworthy in this department.
Ira Madison III Yeah, but the director is Justin Chadwick, who did God do remember, Tulip Fever.
Louis Virtel I mean, I certainly didn’t see it, but I remember the I remember the curiousness of that movie finally being delayed. It was delayed all these years. It was mostly a bland movie. All the critics were like, you know, you forget it as soon as you leave the theater or whatever. But it was released so late, I don’t know what year, like 2015, 16 or.
Ira Madison III 2017.
Louis Virtel 2017.
Ira Madison III Right before right before we started the show.
Louis Virtel Yeah. In 2017 and Matthew Morrison was in it. And I’m not saying Matthew Morrison is incapable of booking a role, but it’s the kind of role you get because you’re on a hit show at the time. And obviously Glee had long ended. So it was very strange seeing him in that movie.
Ira Madison III And you know, like Alicia Vikander was in that and she was probably like, Why now? Yeah.
Louis Virtel She’s like, I’m not doing much right now. Please.
Ira Madison III Just let it die. And of course, that was, you know, the like that was the last film released by the Weinstein Company. You know, that was like Harvey’s obsession, right?
Louis Virtel Yes. Yes, of course. Of course. And Judi Dench is still in it. The one time Harvey super associate, mega associate. Basically the reason he is associated with prestige, he made Judi Dench happen.
Ira Madison III Yeah. You know. She’ll pay for her crimes.
Louis Virtel I cannot get over how she said I can’t do the James Bond movies anymore. After all, I’m blind. And she has since done 70 movies where she sees perfectly fine since. She’s like, Carry on. She’s like, I’ll do Belfast, whatever. Put me in that Murder on the Orient Express shit, I don’t care.
Ira Madison III Just scare me.
Louis Virtel Yeah. No.
Ira Madison III Who among us wouldn’t lie to get out of the Bond franchise? No.
Louis Virtel I mean, it’s it’s as close to Marvel Jail as you can be. And while, you know, being associated with novels of the past.
Ira Madison III Yeah.
Louis Virtel Judi Dench is Marvel Universe.
Ira Madison III Well, I think that’s all we have to say about the Queen.
Louis Virtel I’m trying. Yeah. I mean, like.
Ira Madison III Well, let’s cast. Let’s cast Camilla. How good did it have Camilla?
Louis Virtel Well, what age.
Ira Madison III Do like biopic?
Louis Virtel What age do you want her?
Ira Madison III I want. My Camilla story has to be like around or around, like and sort of like after Diana’s death, I think combined would be more of like a Jackie.
Louis Virtel Got it. How do we feel about Vera Farmiga in. I also feel like Vera Farmiga has a slightly dotty thing about her that would just suit any British performance, let alone the cool take I want on Camilla.
Ira Madison III I’m like, looking at her in 95, and, you know, she had a bit of a, um. I’m writing letters in to the broadcasting company because there was an interracial romance on my television screen. Look to her face.
Louis Virtel You know that look? Yes.
Ira Madison III Yeah, you’ve got her. She’s like a stern face, too.
Louis Virtel Which is important.
Ira Madison III Unfortunately, whoever plays her is going to be hotter than she actually is. But.
Louis Virtel We’ll, allow it. Fine. Whatever. Yeah, the hair is what’s important. She’s really got that. Well, sometimes it’s it’s it’s flared out, but sometimes it’s really got that Bonnie MacDougal from Sex and the City thing which, you know. Classic.
Ira Madison III Let the woman do let some other woman do a little like Charlize Theron in Monster moment though. Ugly themselves up a bit.
Louis Virtel Uh huh. Uh huh. Like, really get into character. Yeah, but I feel like she has kind of like a a naughty humor. Right. Well, we overheard that weird exchange with Charles where they were joking about what was it, tampons or something?
Ira Madison III Yeah.
Louis Virtel So something’s going on. Again, Dotty is the word.
Ira Madison III Okay. How old was she then?
Louis Virtel She would have been about 48.
Ira Madison III Mm. Well, adultery ages you. God don’t like ugly. No. Camilla
Louis Virtel Jesus Christ. God don’t like ugly. That’s. That’s all right. That’s Ira’s advice.
Ira Madison III Yeah, that’s the tagline, Camilla. God don’t like ugly.
Louis Virtel Actually, I think she looks chic as fuck, to be honest. But I also I also like Queen Elizabeth throughout the ages, always had a cool look. I was just like. Like the look on her face. I always felt kind of rad and self-possessed.
Ira Madison III Yeah. All right.
Louis Virtel Well, I’m a royalist. Ultimately, they have made no mistakes, and I support them.
Ira Madison III Respond to us. You know, if you have your own ideas of who should play Camilla.
Louis Virtel Yes. Thank you.
Ira Madison III Well, all right. When we’re back. Keep It. And we’re back with our favorite segment of the episode. It is Keep It, Louis. What’s yours?
Louis Virtel I just want to say about the Keep It segment in general that while we’re having a fun time on this podcast, sometimes the Keep It is not that fun. Okay. And it’s a moment of serious self-reflection for me. And you know how, like, Garfield gets on the stage and then waits for the tomatoes? It’s one of those. So just be prepared. Keep It to Barack Obama’s presidential portrait. Guys, I know he wanted something different, but when they unveiled that thing and it was Barack in front of a white backdrop, you guys, it’s giving Excedrin commercial guys we’re talking about at the White House right now. That looks like something that hangs in the Paley Center. I looked at this thing and again, he plenty of things set him apart from other presidents, even just as it pertains to this podcast, actually cares about pop culture in a cool way. When he puts out that movie list, it’s not a try hard list. He clearly has seen everything and picks his favorites. He’s an unexpectedly huge Brandi Carlisle fan, like actual taste going on with this former president. So when I saw this portrait, I wanted to sign on and sign on specifically to the fact that it is different from all these other ones. But man, a white backdrop. You’re the president of the United States. Are not. Candice Bergen for Sprint. It doesn’t look good.
Ira Madison III It’s from Robert McCurty. And his portraits tend to have a bit of Humans of New York feel to them.
Louis Virtel Yeah.
Ira Madison III You know, it’s very.
Louis Virtel I could have embraced that in certain circumstances. But here, I mean, it looks like he’s just, you know, selling us car insurance or something.
Ira Madison III Yeah, I don’t. You know what I also don’t love Michelle’s either.
Louis Virtel It’s okay. I’m in like that one at least has color in it. You know, some which I’m sure you know, I don’t mean to shame Mamie Eisenhower, but I’m sure Michelle is giving more color and more personality than maybe first ladies of the past did. So I’m happy to see that represented.
Ira Madison III But of course, and that’s from Sharon Sprong. I just feel like Sharon’s like are a bit more dynamic in her other work. The Michelle one just seems a bit. I’m like, Who are you? Who are she looking at? The the you know, and like, it doesn’t feel like her. She she feels a bit cartoonish in it. You know, it’s not fully realized to me, but maybe I just love the last one so much that Amy saw one.
Louis Virtel Way and I loved his the one in the garden that was so awesome and like, whoa, you’ll never forget that, you know?
Ira Madison III Yeah, the Gandey Whiley one. That one was gorgeous. That one was like. That was art.
Louis Virtel Correct.
Edward Enniful You know, and she’s always trying something new that Barack.
Louis Virtel Right. But as it stands, it’s like Barack is looking at us and saying, happy Honda days and I don’t want to celebrate. Ira.
Ira Madison III All right.
Louis Virtel What is your Keep It? Save us.
Ira Madison III Um, my my Keep It goes to Boy Meets World Star Ben Savage, who is running for West Hollywood City Council currently.
Louis Virtel He sure is. And that makes me think he’s just my neighbor or something. Can I peek out the window? Look at this venmo and check out a Cory MATTHEWS walking in and picking up some Mike’s Hard.
Ira Madison III Yeah. Where do you live, Ben? Um, I assumed you had other things to do with his life. You know, his brother’s career’s in ruins.
Louis Virtel It sure is.
Ira Madison III Yeah. So I figured, you know, he’d be dealing with family issues. But, listen, the name of the game in politics is when your family is in turmoil, that’s the time for you to step up.
Louis Virtel Well, let me tell you something. I’ve not really checked in with Ben Savage in a number of years, so maybe he’ll be unexpectedly amazing or a political mastermind or whatever. I mean, I don’t have any updates on him other than it would be funny. Go ahead. Do you have one?
Ira Madison III A few weeks ago, he posted an Instagram story of him hanging out with the L.A. County sheriff’s deputies.
Louis Virtel We love them.
Ira Madison III And, you know, he is a friend of the police.
Louis Virtel Good lord, god, okay, whatever. It’s exciting. Really exciting. Wouldn’t it be amazing, though, if, like, he had detractors on the board and every time they disagreed with him, they brought out, like Mr. Feeny, to scold him. Come on, that’d be fun.
Ira Madison III That would actually be very funny. But, you know, I’m like, I don’t need Cory MATTHEWS being pro-cop and running for office in West Hollywood. What are you doing?
Louis Virtel No.
Ira Madison III Also, it’s like, is this like a is it like a dream? Like, as you said, like I don’t associate him with West Hollywood. So, like, what is this? Is this like a stepping stone to run for other things in the future? I’m very suspicious.
Louis Virtel And also, I mean, at West Hollywood, he’s going to be presiding over some really fagotty issues. I mean, he has. Has he expressed any mastery of this subject once upon a time? Like, does he know where I’m going to park when the parade hits? I don’t know.
Ira Madison III While he said that West Hollywood is the best city on earth, and that West Hollywood mayor, Lauren Meister needs some backup and that WeHo needs a clear set of eyes and someone with no attachments.
Louis Virtel Okay. I believe it needs three more Starbucks, so let’s get on that.
Ira Madison III I believe the bars need to be opened till 4am.
Louis Virtel Yeah, that concerns me. Yeah. If I’m at Mickey’s, I need that person writhing on the pole to at least 3:46. Okay.
Ira Madison III Anyway, my Keep It’s to him. I also have another side Keep It that disappoints me to say.
Louis Virtel But go ahead.
Ira Madison III I don’t know what’s going on with Rina Sawayama’s current song releases. But they’re not for me.
Louis Virtel Oh, that’s too bad.
Ira Madison III And this Hell was amazing. And the other ones, I just. I want to know what’s going on. Oh, I know what she’s going through. They’re giving a little Disney Channel original movie soundtrack.
Louis Virtel Interesting. So she’s getting away from the, you know, Evanescence.
Ira Madison III Less of the industrial, like, hardcore. I’m just like, it seems very it’s very earnest. And I just wonder what was going on.
Louis Virtel Yeah. Hmm. EARNEST. Not the same thing as having a good time.
Ira Madison III Not a Keep It, but not to Keep It up. It’s just a hey. Keep us in the loop. Yeah.
Louis Virtel Keep us informed.
Ira Madison III Yeah. Yeah, I just. I just want to know what you’re going through, Sis.
Louis Virtel We want to understand. Yeah.
Ira Madison III Yeah. Yeah. If there’s, like, a greater plan here. You know, I’m happy to hear it. Right. But, um, right now, you know, I’m not finding any perks and being a wallflower.
Louis Virtel That’s so interesting. I want to add also that I’m confused about Kelly Clarkson and Dolly Parton when they put out a I’m going to generously call it a ballad version of 9 to 5. Were they thinking, I think what the song needs is for the fun to be wrung out of it like a rag and instead we’ll just not dance. And I guess, you know, meditate on the shadiness of the workplace. That’s just all we got out of that song. Okay, great.
Ira Madison III Late stage capitalism has taken, you know, 9 to 5, which was a call to arms. And now it’s the song you hear when you’re on hold, calling your 9 to 5 to call out because you’re set right.
Louis Virtel Literally waiting for your ship to come in while you’re on hold. Yes.
Ira Madison III Yeah.
Louis Virtel Just questions.
Ira Madison III All right.
Louis Virtel That’s all we have.
Ira Madison III Yeah, I just. Yeah. Keep us in the loop.
Louis Virtel We’ll talk to you later.
Ira Madison III She’s never coming on this podcast again. She hates me now. At any rate. Thank you to Edward Enninful for being here this week. And remember to check out full episodes of Keep It on the Uncultured YouTube channel. Despite the name, it is a very cultured YouTube channel. And don’t forget to rate and review. Keep It on your podcast platform of choice. Apple Podcasts. Spotify, Google Play, Stitcher, HBO, Max, Discovery. I don’t know. Wherever you get, Keep It. We’ll see you soon with more Keep It. Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our senior producer is Kendra James. Our producer is Chris Lord. Our executive producer is Ira Madison III.
Louis Virtel And Louis Virtel.
Ira Madison III Our editor is Charlotte Landes and Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer.
Louis Virtel Thank you to our digital team, Matt DeGroot and Nar Melkonian and Delon Villanueva for production support every week.