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Ira and Louis discuss the final Mission: Impossible, And Just Like That’s new season, Patti LuPone’s New Yorker profile and apology, WeHo Pride, Miley’s new album, Wear Whatever the F You Want, and Tennis’ farewell tour. Owen Thiele joins to discuss his pair of new shows Adults and Overcompensating, podcasting in the middle of the night, and more.

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TRANSCRIPT

 

Ira Madison III [AD

 

Ira Madison III And we are back with an all-new episode of Keep It. I’m Ira Madison III.

 

Louis Virtel And I’m Louis Virtel, and I cannot wait to read Ira Madisons III’s first written apology to the Broadway community, whenever it may happen.

 

Ira Madison III It’s actually so wild because I feel I like I wrote a explainer about this for my newsletter this week because this news literally happened right after we finished recording.

 

Louis Virtel So annoying and of course referring to the fact that Patti LuPone, Broadway’s own former keep it guest gave an interview in which she got a bit salty, actually the word is rancid about Broadway actress Keisha Lewis and also Audra McDonald. But we’ll talk about the contents of that. And then eventually she released an apology, even noting herself. She does not apologize often. And so I guess that’s a landmark moment. I remain very dubious about this whole situation and what people want from Patti LuPone.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, so obviously the Keisha Lewis part of it is the more damning part. Yes. You know, this stems from a beef that occurred from Patty’s show, The Roommate, which she was in with Mia Farrow last year, sharing a wall of a theater with Hell’s Kitchen, which is Keisha Louis’s show.

 

Louis Virtel The Alicia Keys musical, yes.

 

Ira Madison III And listen, the production of The Roommate thought that Hell’s Kitchen was seeping in through the walls and it was quote, unquote too loud, which listen, a lot of commentary has been made about the fact that, calling a black show too loud is racialized, but there’s just the fact that you are sitting through a quiet stage play with two old women talking. And then there’s a musical going on next door of Alicia Keys song, okay? And I mean, the girl was on fire. It’s gonna be loud, yes. It’s going to be loud.

 

Louis Virtel No Alicia Keys is a writer of anthems. You know what I’m saying? So it’s going to be a bit proclaimed

 

Ira Madison III So I can see how one could interpret calling the black show too loud. It’s the same way that you can call a white friend aggressive and referring to a black person as aggressive. It’s like there are, there is racially coded language here. But this is Patti LuPone that we’re talking about. And I really just think this entire drama started with like no nuance and also just sort of not reading into intentions because I’m sorry. Patti LuPone, who all this drama, by the way, came out of a New Yorker interview with Michael Schulman where Patti was sippin’ on that liquor and got to spillin’. She was sipping that, yeah, okay. This is a woman who, in the profile, complains about people talking loudly at the table next to her in a cafe. She says, New Yorkers are too loud, you know? So I think that, I’m sorry, any musical could have been next door to Patti LuPone and she would have been like.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, let me explain Patti LuPone to you. She’s like if Fran Lebowitz could have a job, okay? Was like employable. Okay, so that’s what we’re dealing with Of course, as you said, The Roommate is just a talky play, you know, it’s like a little relationship drama

 

Ira Madison III And I’ve seen so many shows on Broadway where the musical next door is seeping into the theater. I mean, I saw a show off Broadway at the tank recently. And before the show, the producer announced you’re gonna hear noises coming in from another production. It just happens, you know? And I think that if you read, like the article, the way it’s described, it seems like the producers of the show were like, Well, Patti LuPone can get them to turn down the music.

 

Louis Virtel So they’re like, Patty, say something to the Schubert. Precisely. Now, there were parts of the interview that were, as I said, a bit more rancid. To me, the worst part of the interviewed is when she implies that Keisha Lewis is not a veteran of Broadway, even after being in 10 plays, which she shortchanged her. She said she was in fewer plays than that.

 

Ira Madison III Mm-hmm.

 

Louis Virtel And then inflated the amount she was in, she, Patti was in and then it’s like how many Broadway productions must somebody be in before you treat their career like it matters because she truly treated the woman’s career like a didn’t exist.

 

Ira Madison III Also, since 85, you know, and also, that’s where the racial element came into it, you know, because think about why this woman who’s been on Broadway maybe like nine to 10 less years than you. Right. Has only been in 10 shows and you’ve been in over 20.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, no, I mean it’s right, you should be able to hear yourself at this point and know how it sounds, alas.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, and then calling her a bitch, was rancid. Though I will say going back to the initial beef, it was trumped up more because one, Keisha Lewis recorded an Instagram live and commented on Patti LuPone calling up the theater and asking them to be quiet and called it a racial microaggression, which I found messy. I’m just going to say that. I think that’s messy. You know, I think that’s taking. An interpersonal beef and being like, well, I want to get back at Patty for doing this. So I’m going to get people to drag her online, which we could just admit that that’s what we were doing here. Okay. You can also admit that someone was doing that when people keep talking about how Patty refused to sign a playbill outside of the roommate and was dragging Hell’s Kitchen. Do not come up to me and ask me to sign a play bill for Hell’s kitchen, a show that I’m not in. I think that’s messy, too. Someone else was looking for a fight, too

 

Louis Virtel And if you, you know, get fighty at Patti LuPone, you may get one. So I kind of get it. It’s interesting though, because I feel like most of the furor about this ended up being Audra specific because in the interview she talks about how they’re not friends. And I think people interpreted her comments as being very shady to Audra, which is interesting because I did not find her generally insulting to Audre McDonald. She just said, we aren’t friends anymore. And also, by the way, we don’t know really what that’s about. Patty didn’t really get into it. And then of course, Audra didn’t get into either when they were talking. So then, when the ensuing petition came out from 500 plus members of Broadway asking for Patti LuPone to, my favorite two words in the English language, do better. One, that felt unspecific and two, it was so about, it felt like the language in that petition was about. How great Audra is and I don’t feel that Patty was calling that into question at all.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, what’s weird too is that the media has focused on the Audra part, right? Like the view talked about it and it’s sort of leaving out the Keisha Lewis part like referring to the black woman as a bitch. Yes, that was the worst part. Because also she didn’t really discredit Audra’s legacy. She was just like, I like her. Yeah, right. Which, okay, if you’ve discredited the legacy of everyone you don’t like, I got something to tell you. Yeah, Right. You know, that it was just general shadiness and I- don’t really think she was that nasty to Audra McDonald. And then the focusing on Audra so much in the open letter, I feel like was kind of a slight to Keisha Lewis.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. And also, I mean, as quote, unquote, shady as it got was when she said she didn’t respond to the question. What did you think of Audra’s gypsy revival? And then she sat there stony and silent for 15 seconds before looking out the window and saying, what a beautiful day. Guys, I’m so sorry. That is a funny interview thing. It’s giving movie line 1998, JLo being asked about Madonna and saying is she creative? Yes. Is she a great talent? No, or whatever she said, look up the interview. But also did she even see it? I don’t know

 

Ira Madison III I think she did, I wanna say she did. But the shadiest thing, to be honest, that Patti did was going to see Nicole Scherzinger in Sunset Boulevard and taking photos with her and talking about how amazing she thought she was.

 

Louis Virtel No, right. That, I mean, that could be diabolical. I mean I don’t really know what’s happening there. Maybe it was. But I have to say though, I’m ultimately a bit happy about this whole thing because I cannot remember the last time we were this clamory about a best actress race at the Tony’s. I mean, it’s like completely unprecedented in a way.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, it’s messy and it’s giving drama. Let’s just say, this hasn’t been a lot of good drama on Broadway this past season. No.

 

Louis Virtel Namely the mail led stuff that we were all supposed to be so excited about. Yeah, so let’s just say that. And then Patty did end up writing an apology about some of the things she said in that interview. And I have to say, I hate when people, something about the, like when people go, and it was a brilliant apology. It’s like, well, okay, like don’t be too obsessed with someone doing the right thing. But it felt like her, it didn’t feel like a PR person. So it was at least nice to read an apology that sounded authentic.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, there were two annoying responses to that. One was, oh my God, the apology was brilliant, which calmed down. And then the other response was people saying, well, the only people who can really accept her apology are Keisha and Audra. I’m like, well, that’s true. So also why are you writing a screed in the Instagram comments?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Right. They’ll respond in time or they’ll respond to each other. Remove yourself from it then.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, exactly. And lastly, I just feel like so many people were commenting that if a blue black woman had done the same thing as Patty, you know, they’d be dragged, they be canceled, which one, Patty was dragged and on the verge of being canceled. So the premise here is a little faulty. And then two, I don’t think equality is this white woman’s being a bitch. So these two black women should be bitches too. Like, no, they’re actually just classy women. N. That’s why we like them. We like August because she’s classy and we like Patty because she is a bitch. And some people hate her because she a bitch, which goes with the territory.

 

Louis Virtel Right, right. Oh, yeah, because I have the distinct feeling she’s not worried about that. I did get a little annoyed when people like use this opportunity to be like, and she’s always been nasty or whatever. I’m like, I’m not saying she isn’t abrupt and a bit curt, but I think this was actually a bit out of character for her and how bad it was. Like I can’t think of too many other quotes from Patty that are that awful. I mean, like for instance, when she drags Madonna and Evita, that is nasty, but it also is like a show she was in. So it’s like, she should have strong opinions about it. And by the way, everybody in the theater community has strong opinions. That was the number one thing that bothered me about that petition. They treated it like her, like, curtness was inappropriate. When the fact is, if you want the quality on Broadway to be good, you need to be that discerning.

 

Ira Madison III We want bold, discerning writing on Broadway, too. And I just like, kumbaya, restorative justice talk is not what I’m here for.

 

Louis Virtel It’s not for the Pulitzer committee, that I know. Yeah. Anyway, what else is going on this week? Anything, I don’t know. Well, it was just WeHo Pride here, so I’m mysteriously not sunburned and on two feet, so we’re going to celebrate that. Otherwise, Miley Cyrus has a new album, and kind of a new feel. The album is a bit of a departure for her, and then we’ll get into the… Continuing adventures of Carrie Bradshaw. It’s so crazy. It’s like if Mean Girls were like a TV show and we were keeping up with the same characters in the same place. It’s strange, but we’ll get into it in just like that. And also the new show, Adults, which I’ve been digging, and we’ll meet one of the stars of Adults. Owen Teal is visiting us today.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, also my king, Tom Cruise, dropped his opus, Mission Impossible. So we’re going to discuss that, the final reckoning.

 

Louis Virtel And 50 minutes long, it better be the last fucking reckoning. I refuse to reckon further. You reckon it was too long for you, Lewis. Are you being a August Wilson character? Who is that? Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III August will sit, fog horde leg whore, who can tell. Alright, we’ll be right back with more Keep It. Keep It is brought to you by Fatty15, the signs of aging that I’ve been experiencing. Ciao, my back.

 

Louis Virtel Oh really? You’re one of those people?

 

Ira Madison III I am one of those people. I’ve honestly been one of these people for years due to a car accident, but I feel like the lingering effects of that and then also just getting old. The Bones, showing some wear, okay? Like season 16 of Bones.

 

Louis Virtel I was going to say, I would feel so glamorous if I were you. If I had just like lingering back issues from an early accident, I will feel exactly like you guessed it, Gloria Estefan, who has recovered wonderfully.

 

Ira Madison III Listen, we’re so excited to share with you guys C15 from Fatty15, the first essential fatty acid to be discovered in more than 90 years, and they’ve been looking at it.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. They got the magnifying glass out.

 

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Louis Virtel I find that as I get older, it’s not just important that I feel healthy, my feelings are irrelevant. I want to look like I’ve got that glow about me. And I feel like Fatty 15 is like that essential X factor thing that gives you a bit of radiance. Mm, yes, the charisma, uniqueness, nerve and tan. That’s me, except not tan at all. Right, again, as I said earlier, I’m in the Lord community.

 

Ira Madison III Fatty15 is on a mission to optimize your C15 levels to help you live healthier, longer. You can get an additional 15% off their 90-day subscription starter kit by going to fatty15.com slash keep it and using code KEEPIT at checkout. Mission Impossible, The Final Reckoning, Tom Cruise’s swan song to the blockbuster film series is finally out. We’re gonna get into the highs and lows of Ethan Hunt’s epic conclusion, then hop from one iconic franchise to the next to get into a beautiful mess that is, and just like that. All right, starting with Mission Impossible.

 

Louis Virtel I’m so sorry. I thought the last one, the first reckoning, was so much better than this movie. I was, first of all, it’s extremely long, as we already noted, like two hours and 50 minutes, and I kind of think they forgot to make Ethan Hunt seem cool as opposed to just capable. He’s certainly capable in this movie, and there are two main set piece scenes I love. He has a shirtless. Brawl was somebody, seemingly at random, it pops out of nowhere. And it reminded me of like a scene out of a Bruce Lee movie. That was really cool to see from Tom Cruise. And of course the body is, as we say in the business, T. Oh my gosh. And then of course, the final climactic scene, which takes place, you guessed it, in an airplane, was also very cinematic. And kind of a throwback to North by Northwest, which I was psyched to see. But otherwise. I felt like the exposition in this movie was unusually let in and also complicated and lasted so long. It’s as if the movie was murmuring to itself, not involving the audience until we got to the scenes we wanted to see. There was this like, let’s get this business out of the way before we get to something you actually want to look at. What did you think of this movie?

 

Ira Madison III So I enjoyed it. I kind of enjoyed the last part a bit more, which is interesting because I was a little bit let down by the last party, just compared to the entire films, you know, in the series. But for this one, I really felt like a lot of time in the beginning was focused on catching people up on the franchise as if… An influx of new people are going to come and watch this film when they haven’t seen a single other Mission Impossible movie.

 

Louis Virtel Right. And yet also, it’s just like, it is just not that important to know the technical information about why we’re watching this movie. Just be like, we have this key, we need to get the key to the key thing. And that’s the entire point of the movie. It reminded me a little bit of why I didn’t like the first hour of Oppenheimer, where it almost felt like everybody is speaking in ADR and everybody it’s like chop, chop, chopping between people finishing each other’s sentences, since that’s the swiftest way to get us up to date on wherever we’ve been. Meanwhile, the number one thing I missed from the last movie was fucking Vanessa Kirby. I think this movie needed a breakthrough villain who is delicious. You need delicious performances in action movies to really buoy them, to make them feel like. There’s something in addition to the visual spectacle we can key into it. Gabriel sucked. He totally sucked. Gabriel was giving bad Bond villain. He was giving Bond villain from the Sam Mendes films. And like, yeah, like cackling. It’s just like, it was such a first thought version of a villain. Yeah, there was nothing like, Vanessa Kirby, her energy was, there’s no other way to put it, fucked up. You know, like the way she would look at you, like kind of a tricky glance and then sort of dart one way in addition to being glamorous, that is what I was missing. And I also think there was a glamor component not in this movie.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, the movies are usually about, you know, going to some fabulous like party, going to far off location. I’m specifically thinking of the last movie with the car race in Italy.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, like that was so fucking cool and the parachuting onto a train like let’s just fully get into stupid James Bond territory You know, he’s landing on the Orient Express like some sort of you know, stare it addicted air kielpaw row

 

Ira Madison III But this one really missed the women. It missed the glamor. It also just missed feeling like an ensemble piece, to be honest. The ensemble is so fun in these movies. I think about the last one too, where they were all at the airport and, you know, he’s… Meeting Rebecca Ferguson and he is switching keys and the whole team is doing different things in different parts of the airport, right? That is such a fun kickoff to a movie. And this one, all the scenes were like a minute long. We kept clipping along just to get through story. And a lot of it is him just racing back and forth. It was giving slow horses, by the way, watching Tom Cruise run so much. Yeah, just, you know, Ving Rhames being sort of on his deathbed and separating him from the team for so much was really a bit of a letdown. It doesn’t seem like they did anything in this film, to be honest.

 

Louis Virtel And also, it just didn’t feel like you got enough shots where you saw a bunch of people in one shot. It felt like everybody got a one shot to do their lines. And usually we were listening to an ADR of another character and had that pandemic feel of we’re not all in the same place for some reason. And there was no kind of, yeah, shots of everybody to take in, even like Pam Klementieff is sort of the zaniest of the assassin-ish characters. And I feel like she was reduced to Three-word comebacks that became sort of played out immediately. She didn’t have any any place to go with that character She definitely peaked in the last movie

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, she was so much more fun in the last movie. And I do want to praise one sequence in this movie, which is I think one of the best sequences in the franchise. And it’s a shame that it was bogged down by other stuff in the beginning, but when he goes to the submarine, I thought that was… Fucking amazing. I thought it was thrilling and I thought it was just such a feat and it honestly felt really tense like a horror movie or something like you were actually going into the submarine yourself.

 

Louis Virtel Also, I feel like the best of Mission Impossible feels like what the Tomb Raider movies should have felt like, where there’s an element of exploration and adventuring and the unknown and danger and stakes, but also the fact that this is the star of the video game. We want to feel like that guy as we go in through it. And that really was, I mean, world-class looking sequence there. And it doesn’t remind me of anything they had done previously too, which I look at the climactic. Plane sequence in this movie, which was entertaining and I do feel like I could have been in any of the movies previously

 

Ira Madison III I also didn’t really love all the commentary about all his previous missions. I know that we’re wrapping it up, but sort of like, oh, you blew up the criminal. Oh, you did that. And it sort of, it was funny, but also I either think these government people should know about this stuff or they just shouldn’t know about it because the team he’s on is sort of the secret ops, but. I don’t know, it just felt like we were drawing so much commentary on the franchise end that we forgot to have just a fun movie. And I feel like the commentary was there because this is really less of an opus to Ethan Hunt and more of an Opus to Tom Cruise, right? It is the ending of the movie with the Ving Rhames voiceover and him having saved the day again, as you knew he would, it sort of feels like a reading from the book of Tom.

 

Louis Virtel No, you can picture it being written and rewritten and re-written to be properly idolizing of

 

Ira Madison III Yes, he saved movies, he is the savior of film. It’s, you know, he’s cinema Jesus.

 

Louis Virtel And also, I mean, the hair does look fabulous, I have to say it. Of course, he looked fabulous in the movie, too. But you’re right, like the beginning of the movie and those people referencing his past adventures felt like one of those episodes of a 70s TV show where we’re just doing a clip package of all our best adventures. You know, like, oh, when when Fonz and the gang sit down in Arnold’s and talk about all the times they had had here on Happy Days, you know, it felt a bit cheesy.

 

Ira Madison III I don’t know, and I just feel like people like Angela Bassett were so underutilized, like give us, give them all something fun to do. It was a lot of people sitting around talking.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, and also Angela Bassett reduced to like forward exposition and, you know, and re iterating the stakes again and again, I don’t think any Mission Impossible movie has reiterated the stakes more than this movie. It feels like somebody higher up at this movie studio is like inexperienced and thinking the audiences are so dumb. So we have to keep reminding people that everything is important in order for them to stay focused. Girl, we’re already in the theater. You don’t, we are here. We’re not leaving. It would be weird if we left. Find something else to do.

 

Ira Madison III Also, like AI as the villain was just so nebulous because it’s like, what’s going on here? Yeah, that was the only part.

 

Louis Virtel Could have verged into interesting plot because they’re suggesting that every corner of the universe, even like, you know, the ages that they worked at is probably infiltrated by this weird kind of AI infused brain rot that has infected the globe. And so you never know who you’re meeting. If you’re meaning the villain or if you’re not, that could have been interesting, but they didn’t really play with it at all. And it was so long how it took to establish what this fucking thing was. And I was tired of hearing that AI talk No, and like that kind of big electronic eye we kept looking at while other people spoke in VO, just not exciting.

 

Ira Madison III Silly. But speaking of silly, and just like that is bad, I want to say there is a tweet about this show that I think really just encapsulates everything. And it was basically just saying that, and Just Like That is a horrible TV show, but I forget that I need to calibrate my brain. When I’m watching it. And then the next tweet following it up was, and just like, that’s the best show on TV. That’s how we always feel, right? It’s the worst show and also it’s the bad show. It’s addictive. I can’t stop watching it, I’m obsessed with how stupid it is. Well, it’s interesting because-

 

Louis Virtel Because I think what people are talking about when they say it’s a horrible show is, you almost need to forget it’s not the original Sex and the City, even though it’s the same characters having a lot of the same problems. It’s like if it were its own thing, you might be able to accept the badness of it a little bit more. But the truth is, the original sex and the city had such a flair to it. And this is a show that lacks flair, even though it looks expensive. So it’s like it’s trying to make up for the flair with production value, but even something about that is wonky. You always feel like you’re watching a green screen. You’re always watching. You’re almost meeting a character where you’re like, is this person fascinating enough to be in this universe? That said, there was a new character this week that I was loving, and that was Rosie O’Donnell as a non-lesbian virgin who comes and has a dalliance with Miranda. I have to say and we just had her and keep it of course I loved her performance. I miss Rosie O’Donnell as an actress.

 

Ira Madison III Understated, it felt real. Yes, very understatted, yes. And what I actually love about it was we spent two seasons slogging through Che Diaz. And it felt like the original Sex and the City if only that Miranda had a crazy romantic story and then it ended the episode.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. And what I liked about it also was she was never under the illusion that this was going to be like a lifetime partner. Like from the start, she thought to herself like, this person’s like nice and kindly, but a little inexperienced and then she learned how inexperience she was. And that to me feels very adult, like, I’ll try this thing with this person even though I’m not that enthused about it. And I was correct about this. I need to move on from this. But they had a fun little thing between them. I laughed out loud when she referred to her as Sister Mary Tourist. Would she say wicked to her? And made her go to the Eminem store in Times Square. That’s a fun thing that it really hasn’t been dealt with on Sex and the City much, the basicness of tourists and when you interact with them as a New Yorker.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I think mainly the thing with Sex in the City 2 is that Miranda has sort of turned into Cynthia Nixon. Yes. You know, and Carrie has turned into Sarah Jessica Parker. All this reading, all the books that she carries around, you know, there was just an interview with Sarah Jessica Parker where she talks about how she’s reading two books a day to get through the, all of the books nominated for the Booker Prize. And that’s like 170 books. So you kind of have to read two books a day, to keep on track with it. And. That’s like a rich white lady using her powers for good because she has the time to read. Also, whenever you see her papped on the street or at any event, like she’s carrying a book. Like this is a woman who actually reads. Carrie Bradshaw is not that woman, okay? So she seems to be an amalgamation of the old Carrie and also Sarah Jessica Parker. And I think what’s so interesting is that Charlotte is not Kristin Davis. And that’s why she seems so crazy and unhinged as opposed to these other two women.

 

Louis Virtel Right, no, I mean, Kristen Davis’s storyline this week was a woman accused her dog of biting her dog and then we find out later that the woman can barely see. So like, it’s a mood point. But Kristen is reacting to this woman with the size of reactions that I associate with like, Commedia del Arte. Like, she’s like… And I wouldn’t be me! Like, you know, and like it was some pantalone shit and the real Kristin Davis is, you know, a human being.

 

Ira Madison III I just, also just want to reiterate that the series seems to just have no POV, you know? The original series, people used to make jokes that it was gay men writing themselves, right? But it still, when you re-watch it, it resonates with women. It resonates with gay men. It resonates being young and wanting to date and trying to find love in your 20s and 30s in New York. The series now, I don’t know who it resonates with.

 

Louis Virtel I think the critical thing is if the original series feels so swift and like this I always feels like every scene last like five beats longer than it should. And like nobody’s in a rush to like say the funny line as they once were. You know, like jokes kind of sit there and everyone’s sort of content to be a little bit more tired. It’s a drama that’s funny. And yes, yes, and by the way, maybe that is life or kind of authentic to who these characters would be. But as a TV show, I still feel like it could be clippier.

 

Ira Madison III I think it should be shorter. I wish it were just a straight comedy again, but it does feel like a slog sometimes. And also, I’m loving the continued adventures of making this series diverse, because let me tell you, LTW, first of all, when you first see her in her home, walking around with all of the Jim Crow era art in her apartment, okay? Like the, The colors only entrance painting that she has there is, we get it, she’s a black intellectual, which is so funny then too, because there’s an entire plot line centering around the fact that she has no way to connect to the Obamas. And I just don’t buy that this woman would have no connection to the Obama’s.

 

Louis Virtel Right, cuz she’s like the top of her game. Like Michelle Obama would definitely know who she is.

 

Ira Madison III Right, so it just seems silly and nothing was funnier than an event at the Red Rooster in Harlem. We get the black college a cappella group singing. I was like, girl, what are we doing here? Okay, get the Negro spiritual off the screen. I’m not watching that. Put a woof and poof back up on there, yeah. Still only the silliest thing I’ve seen happen at the Red Rooster where Older Keepers listeners will recall the time I described going to a Madonna concert there. Where she led us all through the streets. Black legend, Madonna, yes. Where she let us all through the Streets of Harlem singing like a prayer afterward. One of the most surreal things in my life. Why would you stay on anybody else?

 

Louis Virtel I’m sorry. Like, I know you have your favorites or whatever. Maybe you’re like an Ariana Grande fan or a Lady Gaga. Madonna. Just think about that for a moment. This Pride season. Madonna. Consider, as we used to say during the Oscars campaign.

 

Ira Madison III And lastly, to comment on Seema, I love her in general. She’s like a fun character and yeah, and she should be fitting into the Kim control mode. She should feel that Samantha void that we feel. But once again, the show is just not, it feels like later episodes of Desperate Housewives to be honest, where the original conceit of the show was these women who are friends who live on the cul-de-sac and their storylines are intersecting constantly. You know, I think. That was one of the best things about Seinfeld, to be honest, the fact that each disparate story, all sort of like dizzy around each other until they all converged at the end of the episode. It like, that was a brilliant move, how they were able to accomplish that every episode. But later seasons of Jesuit Housewives, right? Abandoned, it’s just sort of the connection. It was just, we’re writing four different stories for these women, you know? And then there’s a… Monolog at the end from Mary Alice that sort of ties all them together by theme or something, right? And Siva wasn’t even at the Red Rooster at the in and largely these women’s stories were unconnected from one another. And the whole thing about Sex and the City used to be is these women against the world or you’d see them at brunch together. And I just think that there’s like the women aren’t a group, you know? It feels like they’re all Carrie’s friend.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Seema was off on her own planet, it felt like this episode. And also, she almost should be her own TV show, except if it were her own show, it would be a bit too drab too. I don’t know, I didn’t get anything out of that storyline this episode from her that felt like a highlight of the episode. I felt like the best of the episodes was Rosie O’Donnell.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I do want to shout out the fun part of that storyline though was my friend, Mahir Kumar played the assistant to her love interest. And he was fun walking around with glasses and a little bag and everything. So those seeds were funny, I thought, but she really just was on her own little planet. But man, Carrie having phone sex with Aiden, I mean, just like-

 

Louis Virtel Licking his hands was so wild to me.

 

Ira Madison III It also was just weird in theory because wouldn’t you spit in your hand to jerk off? Like the licking of the hand. I’m like, how much saliva does he have?

 

Louis Virtel No, right. On that tongue. He would have to be- Is he a dog? Beethoven, yeah, in order to, the dog, not the genius, in order pull that off, yeah. Picture Beethoven doing that, by the way, sorry. It’s really exciting. Beethoven’s third. Time coming today.

 

Ira Madison III All right, we’ll be right back with more Keep It, but before that, some quick housekeeping.

 

[AD]

 

Ira Madison III This week’s guest is an actor, podcaster, and notorious insomniac that’s soon to be the name on everyone’s lips. He hosts the podcast In Your Dreams, starred in one of our favorite watches this year Overcompensating, and is now playing a leading role in FX’s ensemble comedy, Adults. Please welcome to Keep It, Owen Thiele.

 

Owen Thiele Thank you for having me, me cheering at myself, me clapping at myself.

 

Louis Virtel I don’t think I’ve ever seen that done before, fully clapping at yourself. All right.

 

Owen Thiele I’m just so honored to be here. So I had to, it was crazy to hear you say that. Thank you for having me.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my God, it’s such a pleasure to have you. And by the way, you’re fabulous in both of these shows. Just talk about this explosive moment of you’re in two shows coming out right now and you’re sort of unavoidable in the gay comedy sphere.

 

Owen Thiele Um, you said I was unfortunately unavoidable. Is that what you said?

 

Louis Virtel You’re like so omnipresent right now. It must be so exciting and yet also strange.

 

Owen Thiele Um, it’s definitely strange. It’s definitely strange. And it’s, it it’s very exciting to I’ve, I’ve I’ve grown up wanting to do this for my whole life. So, you know, actually getting to do it. And then on top of it, getting to deal with friends, Benny’s a dear friend of mine, and then making all my these these close relationships on, um, on adults to now the cast are friends of mine. So it just, it feels like a dream, but it is very weird that these two shows have dropped within two weeks of each other. It feels, yeah, I mean, it’s a great feeling, but it’s also like, oh my God, I’m promoting two things when I have, I’ve been in, I was in a movie three years ago and now I’m promoting two shows that I would watch myself. Like it’s, it, it it’s dream. It’s great.

 

Ira Madison III Now, Owen, last time, well, not last time I saw you, because I saw your at Coachella, but last time I sat to interview you, it was like one of your first ones. It was for New York Magazine, you know, like we went to Dave and Buster’s, we hung out. And I remember I asked you if your life had changed since the podcast had come out and since, you now, your show was announced. And you said, Not really, there’s nothing about me online. There’s nothing really about me on that Reddit influencer snark, but I’m ready, actually, I’m waiting. So, are you on Reddit yet?

 

Owen Thiele Oh, Ira. Um, I’m on Reddit. I’m on Reddit!

 

Ira Madison III Are you looking for what people are saying about overcompensating an adult?

 

Owen Thiele I mean, here’s the deal. I’m not insane. I’ve looked up my name. You know what I mean? Of course. You can’t, like… Of course! Yeah, I’m one of those people who’s like, I am off the internet. I can’t… I’m looking at my name… Of course, and I’ve made it on influencer snark, which is the one that I was wanting to be on. I’ve make it on there. So that’s kind of, that’s all I need to know. That’s all it needs. It’s not the Reddit post was not nice. It was not. But are they ever? And you know what? I’m glad. I’m glad to be on there. No, but other than that, there’s still not that much about me online, but the things that are written about me are all about how I don’t sleep. So now everyone’s just constantly like, are you okay?

 

Louis Virtel Now, it’s interesting that you bring that up because one of my best friends is one of these people who actually sleeps historically about four hours a night and I’ve just never questioned Like maybe he’ll drop dead like at 38 and like that’ll just be the end of him. I don’t know what happens, but you rather triumphantly sleep two hours a And I just want to say in the realm of Reddit, it is nice to have, I think, just a tidbit about yourself that is so baffling people have to keep debating it. You know, it sort of like keeps like, you know, a sort of conversation about you maintained, I would assume. But I would also imagine that’s very pleasurable, staying up all the time. And I would be reading trivia at all hours. I still am, but I would reading more of it if I only slept two hours a night. How much do you sleep? I am in the nine hour zone. I am a beautiful little princess. It’s terrifying, isn’t it?

 

Owen Thiele HOURS?

 

Louis Virtel Oh yeah!

 

Owen Thiele Isn’t it this is crazy? I’ve never like that. That’s unheard of for me nine hours. I would be a new person I would I would literally be a person. Nobody would recognize me

 

Louis Virtel But you look very effor best, like this two hours thing is clearly working for you.

 

Owen Thiele It’s makeup and Korean skincare, nothing else. No, it’s fine. I’ve always been this way. My mom doesn’t sleep either. We’re kind of like nocturnal. And so, yeah, but I don’t sleep during that. I don’t nap either, which is, I don’t know what’s going on. I might drop dead at 38 with your friends. So there you go.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, we have to talk about adults because I was talking with Ira earlier about how it reminds me of the show Happy Endings, if you’ve ever seen it, where really the star of the show is the dynamic between the friends. And like, as you know, viewers were like, oh, we don’t get that dynamic elsewhere. It’s this kind of frenetic, very funny, very irreverent vibe, but it’s like very lickety split too. So you almost have to rewind to get all of the jokes. Is that a dynamic that took a long time to establish or is that something that was very evident while reading the script.

 

Owen Thiele Well, I think they wrote it so we would hopefully be that way. But Ben and Rebecca, the creators, hoped for that. But I think it’s really hard to actually find five people that actually mesh and feel like they could actually be friends. And so FX did this brilliant thing where they put us two weeks before the pilot. They brought us to Toronto to actually see if we would be friends, kind of like camp. And then we all just fell madly in love. And it was hilarious because it was like so forced. It’s like we were doing activities going, you know, we had like shopping days. We had like museum days. Like it was literally like the most forced activities that somehow geniusly worked. And yeah, I think that we actually have that relationship in real life as friends. I think we are those people to each other, which is a beautiful thing. But it definitely was FX’s genius to send us all to a camp of sorts. It wasn’t like we were all friends before. We it was definitely like a forced measure that then actually.

 

Ira Madison III Now, I love that concept too, because I mean, it feels so, I don’t know, like old school Hollywood, when you have the studio system or something, or it feels like creating a K-pop group or something. I feel like one of the main problems of creating a project, a film, like a television show, a band, anything is chemistry. And I think that theater gets that, because you have this long rehearsal process, but there’s just rare. That you get something where everyone feels like they really are just vibing with one another.

 

Owen Thiele Totally. First of all, it’s hard to find that in real life with friends, you know what I mean? To actually make friends, like five best friends that you actually wanna be around that you don’t get constantly annoyed with, that’s already hard enough. So then to find five people who are doing that in a show and it doesn’t feel fake is really hard, but hopefully it comes off that we’re actually friends because we actually are friends.

 

Louis Virtel Well, also, I mean, that’s interesting because to me, it says that the creators of the show, the people setting up these this camp must think you are close in real life to who the characters actually are that you would. So when you read this script, do you think, oh, this is someone, you know, reading me basically, like thinking I am kind of this person.

 

Owen Thiele I think yes. I think once the creators casted us, is casted the right word? I never know if it’s cast or casted.

 

Louis Virtel I want to say it actually is, which is unfortunate because it does hit the ear wrong. I think it’s cast. I think both are acceptable. We’ll check with Miriam later.

 

Owen Thiele Miriam, we got to check with you, girl. Miriam. Um… Uh, uh, Miriam’s here. I’ve invited her here. Um, no, yes, I read the first script and I actually, the pilot, and I thought, this is interesting because I don’t really connect with this character. Um, I felt like the character was a little more reserved and a little less, a little like cunning than… Um, than me. But then, as the creators got to know me, they infused more and more of all of our individual quirks into the characters, which made it super easy to play. Um, but it was hilarious. There’s an episode, episode three, where I befriend everyone in the world, including a stabber, a subway stabber and… Iconic episode. Thank you so much. Your friend slut. I’m a friend’s love. And they handed me the script to read. And I was like, oh, my God, you hate me. You guys, you guys think I will be friends with the stabber? And then, of course, I kind of had to take in that I probably would ultimately be friends. But yes, they’re definitely they’re definitely reading us in a beautiful way.

 

Ira Madison III Now, what’s also funny about the show too, is that you’re all young, you know, but obviously the writers are a bit older than you. And so what’s it like, I guess, how much did some of the scripts change once you were on set or were, you now, like just playing around, improving or giving feedback, you know? Were there any parts of it that felt sort of, this is true to maybe like younger millennials and not a Gen Z audience?

 

Owen Thiele You know, it’s funny, Ben and Rebecca, the creators, are actually like, they’re like my age, but then the writer’s room had, you know, older, more experienced writers and younger writers and whatever. So I think it was kind of like a melding pot of all generations in the best way. And so when we got to set, it actually felt already very current. It felt very current, because I think Ben and Rebekah really, they’re chronically online, they know everything, They’re geniuses, they went to Yale. It’s like, it’s a whole thing. But they really, they understood this generation in a really beautiful way. But yes, they encouraged us to improv. And I think the improving mostly actually not us correcting things that felt like old school, but actually correcting things about our characters because our characters were so similar to us now. So we were like, wait, I think Anton would actually say it like this because Owen would probably say… But that was where the improv-ing came in, which was really fun. And Amitha, who plays Issa in the show, is like the number one improv-er in the world. And that is actually her official title. And she is brilliant. And so it was so fun improv-ing with her because we would just take scenes and just improv the entire thing. And then ultimately, the director was like, OK, now we should do a scripted one because we don’t have any of the words actually there. It was great. It was a really, I hope we get to do it again. It was such a fun experience being with these people and it felt scrappy. It’s so crazy because we have FX behind it and we had a budget, I’m sure, and it was beautiful. But it just felt like friends making a short film rather than like making a television show.

 

Louis Virtel If you had to compare the experience of this show with overcompensating where you are already friends with the people making it, do you have one version of making a TV show that you prefer?

 

Owen Thiele I actually have had, I had such good experiences with both of them. I want this to be my next 20 years, 40 years, whatever, however long TV shows run. Not that long, obviously, probably a year.

 

Louis Virtel About nine years, yeah, yeah. Unless you’re on Showtime. Yeah, right. Who knows when those begin or end, yeah?

 

Owen Thiele Yes. Yes. It was fun doing both. I shot Feeder Camp, which a few years back, which was with all of my friends who I knew so well already. So that was similar to overcompensating and just felt like friends hanging out. And I was already comfortable with them. So walking into set was like just, it was like hanging out with friends, you know? It was having a dinner with friends. And then Adults is something newer to me, where I was a little I’m a little more nervous, um… But I think also because we became fast friends in those two weeks where FX made us do some organized things, I felt really comfortable once we actually went to set. So they kind of felt similar. I recommend them both. I’m like, can I just keep doing them both?

 

Ira Madison III These are both series that, you know, have such a young, like youthful energy. You know, they’re very online series. What are some other things that you sort of watch that might be shocking to people? You know like, are they older movies or like genres that you’re really into and something that you feel like you would love to do to sort of be outside of your wheelhouse?

 

Owen Thiele Such a good question. Well, not shockingly, I watch a lot of reality TV shows. That’s a lot, that’s most of my time. I grew up watching like SCTV and Christopher Guest movies and so it’s actually very fitting and serendipitous and beautiful and that I’m both of these things are ensemble television shows because it feels like that’s what I grew-up loving. I think, like, my favorite movie of all time is the very first Pink Panthers. The ones with Peter Sellers.

 

Louis Virtel Peter Sellars, yeah, yeah. Mmmhmm.

 

Owen Thiele He is a genius, I grew up watching those. That’s actually something that I would be interested in. I’m like, I wanna be in a comedy mystery, a comedic mystery. Someone dies and I have to figure it out, which is, in my real life, if someone died in front of me, I would not know what to do, so I think we should put that into a movie.

 

Louis Virtel Also, those movies, like the physical comedy of them, really hold up. Like, I can’t imagine putting them on and not screaming at it. It is really funny. The only thing that’s not funny about Peter Sellers is anything in his Wikipedia. The personal life was not giving, if you look at how he treated people on set.

 

Owen Thiele What was what was he like? What was he like?

 

Louis Virtel He’s just extremely difficult and problematic and strange. But also, I mean, the movies stand for, like being there, one of the great movies. So I can’t fault him too hard. What he was selling, they weren’t buying. Precisely.

 

Owen Thiele Isn’t it tough when you absolutely love a comic or an actor and you’re like, oh my God, their work is brilliant. And then you look them up and it’s like horror stories. Speaking of Reddit, it’s horror stories on Reddit about these actors. And you’re like, how do I move forward now? How do I go on? Because now when I watch Peter Seller’s trip and fall, I’m going to be like, but he probably abused the PA.

 

Ira Madison III Well, they were probably laughing then when he tripped and fell. Every day. You know, watch the, like, you know, if you hate an actor, cast them in like a slasher movie, you now? Then just watch them get killed. That’s probably the perfect karma.

 

Louis Virtel Totally, totally. Oh, God. Now also, as we established, you’re a podcaster and we respect that medium. Ira and I acknowledge the Other People podcast besides us. That’s a big.

 

Owen Thiele Unanimous thing about us. And by the way, no one does and no one should. You guys should be the only ones podcasting and that’s on record. That’s on-record me with the podcast. You guys shouldn’t be the only ones with the podcasts. And that’s true.

 

Louis Virtel I’m sorry. You’ve been blurbed already get ready. It’s like going out into the crooked media social sphere As somebody who’s done it for a while. Do you continue to like podcasting? Like do you find like, you know Ira and I will be talking no matter what doesn’t matter if somebody records it Do you feel like podcast and comes that naturally to you, too?

 

Owen Thiele You know what, no. I’m gonna be honest for a second. I usually would say yes, but no, it doesn’t come that easily to me, actually. And I think watching you guys, I love your podcast, watching you, guys, watching Seek Treatment, watching Emma Chamberlain’s Anything Goes, I was like, this is easy. This is fucking easy. Anyone should do this. It’s putting a mic in front of your face. It is so not that. It is so not, first of all, you actually have to have takes on the world and actually be well read and smart. So one thing I’m actually not. Um, and two, you, you also need like, you need, um, interesting, uh, like, uh, lingo, like you need to captivate people, like. You need things that, that people want to come back for. And it’s just, it’s really hard to build. I’m really impressed by people who have a podcast as long as you guys do. It’s like. It’s really, it’s really impressive. And so yes, in theory, because I talk so much and I sleep two hours a night. So like, yes, I should have a podcast because where is the rest of my time going? But no, it didn’t come that easily to me. It was tough. It was actually tough.

 

Ira Madison III Well, what’s so fun about your podcast too, you know, it’s going in your dreams and it’s about your insomnia and it lists the time that people are coming there to chat with you. And so we’re like, what is it even like booking like Kyia Gerber to come at 11 p.m., Halsey to be there at 1.17 a.m.

 

Owen Thiele It’s, first of all, there’s, I will just be honest on this podcast since I’ve now like chosen to be honest for the first time in my life on Keep It. There’s people that I don’t make come at that time and we sometimes just fudge the numbers. That being said, it’s always at weird times. Like we don’t do it at like, you know, like when they’re like super sharp and it’s 8 a.m. And it like school time. Like we’re always doing it at odd times. It’s just sometimes not at 1 a.m. But the friends that have come on with me, for me, like Kaia and Rachel and Emma, who all came on at very weird times because I was like, we’re having a sleepover and then I bullied them into actually podcasting with me. So that was great. Halsey was at a more normal time. But still, it’s very weird. I shoot it in my apartment and it was supposed to be, We have. It’s a two-bedroom apartment, and one of them was a guest room for my boyfriend’s parents. They live in New York, so when they’ve come out to L.A., they always stay in our guest room. And I’ve changed now that guest room into a podcast studio where there’s a bed so they could sleep, but there’s lights, there’s cameras, and there’s, like, Hilary Duff and Lindsay Lohan stuck behind them on a wall. So it’s weird having, like Halsey come to my little apartment. Like, that’s the weirdest part, I think. Halsey walking in and being like, it’s a beautiful space. I’m like, Halsey, you don’t have to say that. Like my white fridge, you know, that has like magnets all over it. She’s like, it’s just absolutely it’s great what you’ve done with the place, you know. And meanwhile, she’s on A.D. Opening the door to A. D. It’s like it’s very weird. That’s the weird part. But having them at weird times actually has been like very easy. And they’re everyone I’ve had on is wonderful. So they’re just like they’re like, we’ll come. We don’t care. I’ve got to say I’m.

 

Louis Virtel I’m jealous of that. When we tape this, it’s like 9 AM here in LA, and I’ve got news for you. God doesn’t want me to do much speaking at this hour. If it were nine hours later, I think I’d be much more productive.

 

Owen Thiele Totally. Well, that’s what I find with guests too is, and this is so manipulative and sounds so horrible, but the later it is, the more willing they’ll be to share. They’ll say some things and then they’ll ultimately be like, wait, can we cut that? And I’m like, it’s already out. No, I will always let someone cut something. But Halsey was so open. And she just came on my podcast and she was like, I’ve never. Been so open and I’m like well it’s ultimately 10 p.m. My love so thank you for being here.

 

Louis Virtel I just want to say the glint in your eye when you talked about the cunningness there can only be described as Wendy Williams.

 

Owen Thiele And they’ll say anything. And by the way, thank you for bringing up my idol and comparing me to heart. Thank you. Thank you

 

Louis Virtel No problem. I mean, like, in the way that Whitney Houston GIFs will be forever relevant and fabulous, Wendy Williams soundbites, like I’m just forever and I’m like, no, there will never be a second one of her. She truly was cuckoo and yet also mysteriously on the rails as an interviewer.

 

Owen Thiele Totally. Wait, can I ask you a question about Wendy Williams? How do we think she’s doing?

 

Ira Madison III There was some recent update, wasn’t there, Ira? I feel like she is in a position where she probably needs someone like helping take care of her, but not whoever’s doing it. Right. You know? Totally. Like someone else who has her best interests at heart. And also, let’s get those old episodes back on YouTube. That is also nasty. They used to all be there, and now they’re all gone. And, you know, selfishly, narcissistically, my episode is not online.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, I see. I thought this was about the general public and freedom of information, etc.

 

Ira Madison III The people need to see it, the people need see it. They need to it, totally. But there’s also just nothing better than the clips that always go around of her, the how you doing, how you’re doing is like her gaydar, you know? It’s like, someone says how you do it, and she’s like of course. Disappointment is what you’re saying she expresses. And one time I saw one, a clip of a straight man too, She’s like, how you doing? And he’s like. Well, how are you today, Wendy? And she’s like, oh, straight man came to my show.

 

Owen Thiele Who brought you? She’s like looking around, she’s like, what the hell? How’d you get in the building?

 

Ira Madison III Who said that? And just the phenomenon too of like, I love, we missed old date talk shows because just the phenomena of like when guests ask your questions, like my roommate is cheating on her boyfriend. You know, should I tell her to stop it or whatever? And it’s so funny because it’s like, what if your roommate sees this? You’re on a nationally syndicated TV show. Totally.

 

Owen Thiele I’ve never actually thought of that. I was always like, wow, these actors are great. And then now now suddenly it’s hitting me. They could they go home to their roommates. This isn’t an act.

 

Ira Madison III This is real. Yeah, no, these people are messy. They’re messy people who like, they’re like the people who are in like Reddit’s on the asshole, you know? It’s like, these are real people, real people when the cameras get on them, they’ll say anything.

 

Louis Virtel Thank you so much for being here. As delightful as both your characters are on the show, you are even lovelier in person or over Zoom or whatever this is.

 

Owen Thiele Thank you guys for having me so much. Thank you so, so much, I love your podcast and it’s a dream.

 

Ira Madison III Love you and so happy for you. Love you. Thank you to Owen Thiele. Adults are streaming now on Hulu. We’ll be right back with more keep it.

 

[AD]

 

Ira Madison III This past weekend was Pride Weekend in West Hollywood. And as our intrepid reporter on the ground, Louis is going to tell us all about Skinny Lizzo, Kim Petras, and the rest of the festival lineup. Then we’ll get into Miley Cyrus’ new album, Something Beautiful, which we had Pride start here in New York City too, because Miley Sirus showed up at $3 bill for her album release party.

 

Louis Virtel Harvey Milk is up and walking. Here we go.

 

Ira Madison III They are always doing release parties for albums at $3 Bill and no one ever really shows up. But Miley Cyrus showed up and that was pretty cool. I wasn’t there because I don’t go to $3 bill. I’m an adult, but it looked cool from all the Instagrams I saw.

 

Louis Virtel It is sort of the New York discovery zone for the the gay children, isn’t it? OK, so West Hollywood Pride is always I mean, to be this sounds shady, like the biggest possible version of a suburban carnival, you know, you walk in it. There’s like the Ferris wheel, the kiosks. I didn’t get to play ski ball, which, by the way, I am fucking sublime at. But honestly, as somebody who lives in LA, it’s always so much more of a pleasure just to walk around on the streets and the fest as opposed to go to the bars because obviously we get to go the bars all the time.

 

Ira Madison III And they’re packed. It’s just like New York too. You don’t want to be in a bar. It’s filled with tourists and you just can’t sort of, you can’t order anything to be honest.

 

Louis Virtel No, it’s always like hard for me when I go to market days in Chicago where I’m like excited to go to the bars because I obviously don’t live there. And all of my friends in Chicago are like, actually, I’d rather die. How about we don’t go back? But always super pleasant. What surprised me this year, though, was even though Lizzo was really good. I mean, Lizzo is a vocalist and also brings it on stage. And she also I think is knows she’s coming in culturally at a deficit right now. Like people are a little bit side-eye about Lizzo. And she did some homework. She’s like, let me put a little bulletin together about Marsha P. Johnson as we stand out here. And you know what? It was seamless. I thought she did a good job. Honestly, she’s been pretty.

 

Ira Madison III Funny in this comeback. She’s very funny. She’s really funny. Yeah, I think the coming in at a disadvantage now and not being that I’m delivering, you know, self-power anthems to white women in solo cycle classes is made her a little bit angrier and a little more funny and acerbic. I loved her Ziwei episode, for instance.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, acerbics is exactly the right word and exactly what has been missing from her career like okay I like that song about damn time that the kind of um feels like Daft Punk a little bit But also classic disco. I thought that was a good lane for her and she won Grammys for it Obviously but but like the ensuing messages of where she’s coming from felt very aimed at children You know like like middle schoolers like needing to empower themselves And it’s like yeah But what about the adults in the room who like are have moved past this and like you’re an adult, too So it feels very. Appropriate that she is sort of

 

Ira Madison III I graduated from that. Truth Hurts is maybe her sort of most song with a bit of a bite. And I sort of want that vibe from her. And it seems like we’re getting that personality wise. Right, exactly.

 

Louis Virtel But I have to say, Lil Nas X, who was supposed to perform at WeHoPride, dropped out. And he was supposed, I believe, one of the main acts. So on Sunday, which is my favorite time to be there, just because Sunday in WeHo is generally a lovely vibe, Paris Hilton ended up being one of more main performers. And so did at the adjacent stage, Meredith Marks’ DJ set. Can I tell you something? When you’re just hanging out with friends, kiki-ing, enjoying some nonsense, sometimes you just want that on stage as opposed to like Kylie Minogue, who I loved seeing at WeHo Pride last year. But honestly, if Kylie Minogues there, I have to concentrate so hard, it becomes kind of like a religious ritual as opposed a freewheeling pride thing. And honestly, Paris Hilton standing up there, doing her, I’m going to use this word liberally, songs for us. Kind of was like all you really wanted as you mingled with the crowd and like, you know, vibed with everybody. The woman looks fantastic. Can you believe it? And Meredith Marks, I don’t know exactly what she was doing with the knobs. Was it touching the knobs? Was it being near the idea of controlling music? I don’t know. But she brought up a lot of people on stage, including Chris Colfer was there. And I’m always curious about his whereabouts because once upon a time I interviewed him in the midst of when he was doing Glee. And he said at the time as like a, you know, he must have been a mid 20 something or whatever then, that his favorite movie was Notes on a Scandal. That’s advanced for someone of that age. So I feel like he’s like a queen we should be looking out for. And I hope he gets like dignified 30 something, 40 something roles in the near future. You remember when Neil Patrick Harris did Uncoupled? He should be in a role like that.

 

Ira Madison III Chris Colfer also is an author. He has like a best-selling book series called The Land of Stories.

 

Louis Virtel I’m too busy living in a land of stories. I don’t need to read that, but okay.

 

Ira Madison III That’s always just cool with like an actor or someone you know, it’s just, here, they’ve just written all these books.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, no, and maybe he likes that better than acting, by the way. We always forget, you know, when we’re talking about Kate Hudson with the Fabletics or Rihanna with whatever she does. Maybe this is just a lot more enjoyable than the music industry, which seems, you now, pitiful. How you feeling about a friend of mine, by the by? I’m not feeling much. Excuse me, I was at Mission Impossible last night, as you know and the Smurfs preview came out. First of all, I didn’t know we were in the business of using Smurf as every verb, like what the Smurf or whatever. Okay, absolutely not. Have you not seen? Any of the content from any of the previous movies. That’s what they did in the show. Oh, excuse me. You don’t go to $3 bill cause you’re an adult. Guess what? I don’t do because I’m an adult, watch that fucking shit.

 

Ira Madison III The Trolls movies are better anyway.

 

Louis Virtel I can’t believe you have the knowledge to compare them, and I’m sorry for you.

 

Ira Madison III But not as good as the Despicable Me movies. We all know I’m a grew head.

 

Louis Virtel I only saw the movie minions where Sandra Bullock was a villain. Oh, those suck. Yeah, that was not it I think that’s minions too, by the way, really it was 2015. I think it was minions. But anyway We’ll let the crowd decide. Anyway, though, this week, and I did hear tracks from Miley Cyrus’s new album quite a bit out on the town. And this has already been a release single. Her song End of the World is definitely one of the best Miley Cyra songs. I am just loving that. The album itself has a couple of moments that I really like. It’s well produced. I don’t feel like she’s like aiming for Billboard supremacy with this album. It feels like a genuine singer-songwriter-y. Kind of vibe and she sounds fabulous. I mean her voice only gets better and better

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I am enjoying the album, although I will say that I was expecting something a bit more, just from the visuals, I was expected something a bit more like pop rock. Yeah. I was expect it to be a bit more upbeat, you know? This is sort of, catamine by the pool music.

 

Louis Virtel You know? Right, which she has mastered, you know? She’s part of the crew that does, we will call them the horse girls.

 

Ira Madison III But I thought it’d be more plastic hearts. You know, I thought it would be a bit more like the upbeat songs like Jaded on Endless Summer Vacation or Handstand, something like that. Midnight Sky.

 

Louis Virtel Midnight sky, yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, Midnight Sky would have been great, you know, or her Mark Ronson song. Precisely, yes. Yeah, that was sort of what I was imagining for the album. So I think I was just managing expectations, but I really do enjoy it.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, I will say also, not that I expected her to fill this hole, but it’s not particularly summer vacation music. And I know that that genre is important to her as somebody who released an album called Endless Summer Vacation.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, this seems like an album that is primed to be enjoyed more towards the fall.

 

Louis Virtel I have to say I agree, I have to say, I agree.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, your least favorite season.

 

Louis Virtel By the way, I want to say, I do think this album will grow on me too, because it’s less about huge hooks than it is about tapping into her. And I just feel like, I mean, an album I’ll compare that to is Alanis Morissette’s second album, Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie, which does have big pop songs on it, but it was really more about texture and just vibing with who she is as a person. It feels like you’re meeting somebody intimately. And I feel like that’s what this album brings.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, if anything, it feels akin to, I mean I’m wearing my Beyonce shirt, I’m singing the Cowboy Carter tour, which we’ll get into in a later episode because I’m actually seeing it again in London this week. But it feels a bit like that, you know? It’s just an artist making the album that they want to make. And Miley Cyrus is cool, so the album is cool.

 

Louis Virtel She also, when you say that, like making an album she wants to make, she’s like one of the few people, I mean, I guess I am curious about it with Taylor Swift, but in a Madonna way, I’m curious how this person operates at a record label, because I know she’s only going to do what she wants. You know, like I wonder how many people she has to like put in their place in order to make the music she wants make. I’m, I I’m I’m. Curious about that, because I find her such a smooth operator, generally speaking, Miley, in interviews and otherwise. So operating business wise, I would love to see a documentary about her.

 

Ira Madison III And she just feels sort of like an old school musician, the way that she routinely performs at the Chateau Marmont to be in, for instance. She just like sits up there by the piano, like performs and I think like her showing up the $3 bill, et cetera, like celebrating her fans. I just feel like she feels just like a throwback musician, to be honest, like someone from the 70s and 80s, like a real diva.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, also she’s funny in a way where what are she and Kiki Palmer gonna do together? They have that same like something rowdy is about to come out of their mouth and you cannot predict it because something is actually maybe wrong with the both of them. Put them in a film together. Yeah, by the way, I’m still reeling from that one of them days movie, so good, so funny.

 

Ira Madison III You know what, put Miley Cyrus and Keke Palmer in a remake of the blackploitation film, Black Mama, White Mama.

 

Louis Virtel I can’t believe I didn’t think of this myself.

 

Ira Madison III But give them something fun. They both have this sort of throwback like flair to them too.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, and both, I think, are capable of the outlaw vibe. I mean, obviously, Miley achieved that with that Beyonce song.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, two most wanted. Yes, right. Which, I’m waiting for her to join Beyoncé on stage at some point. How has that not happened? How has that not happened?

 

Louis Virtel I think it has to happen, right? Yeah, no, I’m remembering at the Grammys when she pointed at Beyonce in the audience and said, we won a Grammy. And it reminded me, oh yeah, we still have not seen each other and it seems like they haven’t seen each.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, but I don’t know, Beyonce and many of these stars are notorious for pop duets with other big stars that we never see live performances of, telephone. How has that never happened? Insane to me. Meanwhile, Lady Gaga’s running around at like Netflix’s music festival or whatever called Ta-Dum, which okay, the performance was amazing.

 

Louis Virtel She performed at upfronts in New York too, just for like the YouTube crowd or something, which is so wack.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, she’s just having a ball this era, which is fun. But I really loved her performance that was promoting Wednesday, the TV show.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yes. Yes. And by the way, I guess if I had to declare a song of the summer, I guess I’m going to go garden of Eden. You know, at least that’s like getting the girls up and going, Oh, now we’re excited to go to the club. That’s exciting. That to me is a key component of song of summer.

 

Ira Madison III There were a lot of comments on our Instagram reel about Song of the Summer, where you were wondering what is the Song of Summer, et cetera, and I just want to comment on a few things. One, there were a lot of people saying that a Machine Gun Kelly song is the song of the summer and seek help. Yeah. I’m not listening, okay, I listen to singers. Yeah, I’m talking about adults, okay? Okay. FX is adults. I’m a gospel hearer, okay. I like songs with meaning and beautiful melodies. Yes, Mahalia Jackson. So it won’t be that. Yes, Mary Mary, yes. And a lot of people just kept throwing out songs that had come out like beginning of January. And I’m sure, but that’s not song in the summer to me, baby. No, summer belongs at a certain time of year. You can look it up on the calendar. It shows up in June.

 

Louis Virtel Every year.

 

Ira Madison III I do like Famous Gun from the forthcoming Addison Rae album and we will talk about Addison Rae’s album next week, but I still feel like the early EP that Addison Ray dropped was giving more. Song of the summery vibes, right? Like the music that she’s released for this album, Addison, while it’s good, except I don’t really like Aquamarine that much, sorry. It feels more chill pop music, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, no, it’s not song of the summer behavior or material. I think the best song she’s ever released is nothing on but the radio. To me, that at least has a hook and gets me up and going. Aquamarine, I think is okay, but I feel like half the internet is very defending her artistry and being like, this is the next great thing. And to me, her music still sounds like it could be by anybody. And I need the Sabrina Carpenter quotient of this vibe belongs to you. And you’re infusing it with the kind of personality that is only you. I’m still not getting that from Addison Rae. Actually, maybe the best thing she’s ever done is her collaboration with Charlie XCX. That’s also good.

 

Ira Madison III I loved her episode of Switched on Pop, by the way. Put your headphones on for TikTok’s Addison Rae. I thought it was a really good episode that’s just, yeah, talking about her music. And I think that she’s really smart when she talks about pop music and everything. There’s an interview that she does with Popcast, which is great. And I thinks she’s perceptive of just what it took to get her here. But… I am still waiting for that moment where I feel like she is the moment for me and I’m not just being told she’s the moment by gays on the internet and friends of mine too. It’s not just internet people, it’s friends of mind too. But I’m like, I need to feel that pull.

 

Louis Virtel No, I still feel like she’s like a segue artist on my YouTube pre-going out playlist. You know, it’s like, she’s there, I will play the songs, but I don’t know that I’m seeking them out at all. Like, that she’s outranked personality-wise by Tate McCray is not exactly a Sterling advertisement.

 

Ira Madison III I think she’s cool too, but I think she probably has some cool interests, but I need to see them, you know? I think I’ve just seen so much of the coming out of like the TikTok and then now the Charlie XCX camp that I just really want to know who she is as a child.

 

Louis Virtel Your next podcast, Who She Is, Child.

 

Ira Madison III And I just sit down with people to interview them. And I start out with, who are you, child? And they just burst into tears every time. All right, when we are back, it’s our favorite segment of the episode. And we are back for our favorite segment of the episode. It’s Keep It. What’s going on, child?

 

Louis Virtel Um, my keep it this week goes to a show I didn’t hate. In fact, I think it has some good parts, but it’s sort of an, and just like that situation, which I’ll explain. It’s the new show, wear whatever the F you want, which is the follow up show to TLC’s classic unbeatable what not to wear starring Clinton Kelly and Stacey London, who at the on that show help people make over their horrible, um, wardrobes and they were a bit salty and sarcastic and not that nice as they did it. Here, on this show, the vibe is people come in and they don’t really have a sense of style. They’re sort of aspirational about it. And then Stacey and Clinton find a bunch of outfits that match that, and then they pick their new style from that wardrobe. Can you just be mean? Can you please just tell these people who don’t know how to dress… Like pummel them into submission until they get it because I’m so sorry. I come from a very suburban background. I had a family that was not interested in fashion at all. Neither of my parents were fashionable. Nobody I really knew was fashionable and I had no clue how to gain a sense of style. I mean, like it’s still pretty basic. I’m like a basic white gay guy right now. I feel like the thing that really makes people dress well is sternness about like how there are rules, how you can mess up, how there are like, you can have a personal style, but there are best ways to express it. And I feel watching this show, it’s sort of a best behavior pageant where Stacey and Clinton who were once so viciously right on are now a bit fearful of everybody who comes in because they have, I guess, been so burned. By the internet’s ensuing response to what not to wear well after the fact, when the, honestly, I feel like they were amazing on that show, I’ve said it several times on the show. They were always so much funnier than they had to be, so much more informed than they have to be. They both have very legitimate fashion backgrounds. And I feel on this show, there’s just that sense of, I don’t know how else to put it, like fear about saying the wrong thing to these people when the fact is. There is something vulnerable about a sense of style. And so it should lacerate no matter what when you’re critiquing somebody’s sense of fashion. I just feel like it’s a bit too fearful a series, even though I will keep watching it and I love the both of them.

 

Ira Madison III I think what happened too, is that fashion taste and taste in general, right, has just become so intrinsic with who you are that people are just afraid of saying, you’re wearing this, like it’s critiquing it, it’s critique you as a person, you know? And I think that’s sort of why we don’t really have good the content anymore, good shows like that anymore because people are fearful. There’s no POV being taken anymore. I kind of like that TikTok has had this resurgence, you know, with people like Nicky Bell or whatever who like are critiquing people on the runway, et cetera, because we need that again. There’s just been such a lack of POV. Like everybody can’t be right. I’m sorry.

 

Louis Virtel And also POV about somebody’s personal sense of style, I think is important, because something that is so depressing to me about fashion is that it feels like when you pay enough, anybody can have the right rad on-trend look that has nothing to do with their personality. And like, it’s just made fashion less exotic that everybody can turn a look on Instagram, as opposed to once upon a time when someone would show up to the Oscars at a really far, in a far out look, and you knew that meant they were special, as opposed now when it means they’re just in touch with the right people.

 

Ira Madison III Right, which I think it shows too on red carpets because you see a lot of people who are wearing like a cool archival piece or they’re wearing something like fresh off the runway, but they don’t look good at it. No. Just because you have a stylist, just because you are have access to these certain clothes, Does it mean you’re going to wear them well?

 

Louis Virtel No, I mean, there’s still only like a handful of people I really look forward to seeing what they’re going to wear or whatever, you know, you’re Cate Blanchett’s or Lupita Nyong’o. People who the clothes never wear them. There is a stardom that precedes the outfit when they walk into the room.

 

Ira Madison III I want to say that I’ve been loving the work from Harry Lambert who’s been doing Alexander Skarsgård’s like Cannes appearances. Like those are weird pieces that should be wearing him but they’re not.

 

Louis Virtel And of course he’s a stunning man and was once a one rem model himself. I did watch an episode of that show, Murderbot, and not for me.

 

Ira Madison III What is your Keep It this week? My Keep It goes to one of my favorite bands, Tennis. I think that I love them. They happen to be friends who’ve been on the podcast, but a lot of people have been asking me how I feel about them announcing that they are ending the band. They’re on their farewell tour currently. They’ve been around for over a decade and I’ve been with them since the first album. I have a lot of feelings. I went to the farewell tour on Sunday and I don’t know, I feel sad that they’re ending it and my keep it to them for ending it. But also I feel like I want another concert because I think that their new album, their final album, Face Down in a Garden is just so beautiful. And I think there are a lot really poignant songs in the album about their relationship, about the end of their career, and… Because I think it was a, quote unquote, farewell tour, didn’t feel like we got a whole tour devoted to that album, you know? And I think that can end up happening, you now, where it’s like you want to like show a bunch of songs to show your whole career, but there were only like a handful of songs from the new album. And I wanted to hear like through the mirror, I wanted it to hear sister.

 

Louis Virtel What’s that? Well, I will say in this universe, it does feel unlikely that a band would break up and then never get back together for at least some shows, you know? Like, how many times have the go-gos allegedly been over and yet you couldn’t avoid them at Coachella or whatever?

 

Ira Madison III I believe them though, in that they’re never gonna come back, but you know, Alana was like, at the show even, which was like we’re gonna go away for a very long time. And I don’t know if that means, I haven’t talked to them about it, but I don’t know if that specifically means, you know exploring other musical options, producing for people, writing, et cetera. But you know I can get being in a band for this long releasing so many albums that you just want to try something new.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah, no, I imagine I would be terribly sick of them. You have to be inspired by each other. I’m inspired by other people one time at most. I can’t imagine needing constant inspiration from another person and expecting to get it.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I mean, Mark Maron just left WTF, not yet, but he announced it.

 

Louis Virtel Like that show’s been going on for 16 years. It’s always interesting with someone like him. Cause it’s like, what are you going to move on to? Then again, he’s a real actor. So he’s in things. He is.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, it’s also funny because I recall just how much I loved him in glow. Yeah, right. And I’m like, I was sad that that show was canceled. And I was also like, get back on my screen.

 

Louis Virtel Right you’re such a good actor. Hopefully that’s what’s gonna happen. I assume that is what’s going to happen

 

Ira Madison III Anyway, I love the tour, I loved the album, and I will miss them.

 

Louis Virtel I’m trying to remember the last band that broke up that really like hit me. I’m still salty that like, I guess REM has done for good. This pride month, I lament the end of REM.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, and Radiohead.

 

Louis Virtel What’s going on with them?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, um, Tom has been York in.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. He has such a great time with PJ Harvey from Stories from the City, Stories from The Sea, one of my favorite albums.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, but no, I’m trying to think of the last band that broke up that made me sad. A lot of mine are still going. Yeah, that’s what I mean, most of them do. Still making music, Arctic Monkeys is still making music. Garbage just released a new album, which I really enjoy.

 

Louis Virtel I always count on the carpenters releasing an orchestral version of something, so yeah, it’s like

 

Ira Madison III I thought that bitch was dead. Not dead enough. She’s still on the stew. Whip it up tracks. She’s with Tupac. Oh, those Tupacs.

 

Louis Virtel Tupac spotted at the Ivy at lunch. Karen popping up in poetic justice. Asking Tupak if he wants some of this punani.

 

Ira Madison III Thank you to Owen Thiele for joining us. And as always, y’all need to be going and commenting on the YouTube page, but someone also pointed out that we need to get the ratings up. There are not likes on the Youtube page and there are so many views on it that do not reflect the likes. So if you’re watching it, like it, bitch. Get to liking. Yeah. We will see you next week. And while you’re at it, go buy my album. It’s like Missy in Gossip Folks. Don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. You can also subscribe to Keep It on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And, if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review.

 

Louis Virtel Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our producer is Bill McGrath. Our associate producer is Kennedy Hill. And our executive producers are Ira Madison III, Louis Virtel, and Kendra James.

 

Ira Madison III Our digital team is Delon Villanueva, Claudia Sheng, and Rachel Gaieski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Jarek Centeno. Thank you to David Toles, Kyle Seglin, and Charlotte Landes for production support every

 

Louis Virtel Our Head of Production is Matt DeGroot and Madeline Herringer is our Head of Programming. Our Production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

 

Ira Madison III And as always, Keep It as filmed in front of a live studio audience.