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This week, Louis is joined by Ghosts writer Akilah Green to discuss the 77th Emmys, Charlie Sheen’s documentary, The Roses, Nicolandria, Robert Redford, and their favorite warring couples. Jaboukie Young-White also joins to discuss his new film, The Threesome.

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TRANSCRIPT

 

Louis Virtel [AD]

 

Louis Virtel And we’re back with an all-new episode of Keep It. I’m Louis Virtel. And you know what’s running through my veins today? Tiger blood. I’m so sorry to make that reference, but we will be talking about the Charlie Sheen documentary this morning. Guys, 2009 in popular culture, if you were there, you know. And if you weren’t, I’m happy for you because it was downright exhausting. My guest host today is a fabulous writer, somebody I used to know from a place called, I’m trying to remember the name, Twitter, and you would have fun on it and speak on it. We talk about this with our guest today too, but she is a producer and writer on Ghosts on CBS, one of the last strongholds of network television, the fabulous, the stunning, and the hilarious Akilah Green.

 

Akilah Green Hi, I’m so glad to be here. I’m just excited to hang.

 

Louis Virtel Me too. Talk anything. I’m so sorry it’s Charlie Sheen in a way, but.

 

Akilah Green I know. What is your kind of relationship to Charlie Sheen? What’s your access point to Charlie?

 

Louis Virtel Well, he was, for a time, an extremely quotable celebrity, and sometimes in a way I really loved. Like when he claimed openly that he won Best Picture, which meant he starred in the movie platoon.

 

Akilah Green I love that for him.

 

Louis Virtel He did not win the Oscar.

 

Akilah Green But I love that hustle.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, hustle, delusion, right? Something in between there. Right, something in between there.

 

Akilah Green It gets you places is what I’ve learned in life.

 

Louis Virtel Oh no, it never doesn’t work out for those people. Like if you push yourself into rooms, what can happen? It’s like awkward for everybody else to turn you away.

 

Akilah Green Exactly, I love that. I watched the documentary and realized that I don’t think I’ve seen him in anything. So I only know him from just like, I think Tiger Blood and Winning, I think that was like the splash that I have of him. And then I watched this documentary and my question was, why now? Like, is there something coming out? Like does he have a project? Is he getting ahead of something? I couldn’t figure out like, I know someone was asking for it, but who?

 

Louis Virtel No, right. It’s almost like he was worried people started to forget, and he’s like, it’s just time to remind everybody.

 

Akilah Green That’s really what it felt like.

 

Louis Virtel But he’s also getting ahead from men because he gave interviews where, I guess he said he experimented with guys sexually when he was on crack, and I just want to say what a boon this is for the gay community.

 

Akilah Green That crack turns you gay? Yes. Is that the headline? I know you guys had all

 

Louis Virtel I know you guys had all been wondering, Louis, what is his X factor? And I’m here to tell you, mom and dad, what really went down.

 

Akilah Green What I thought was interesting, the way he phrased it, is that he was on round number 12 with a crack addiction, and he said his sexual appetite had grown wilder than it had been before, so he flipped the menu over to the other side, which is how he described.

 

Louis Virtel He’s at Applebee’s, and he’s like, you know, I’m sick of the appetizers. Let’s get the desserts, et cetera.

 

Akilah Green Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought that was interesting. Other than that, I was kind of like all of these things we’d heard before. I did think that the women in his life, his two ex-wives, there’s a third one who, I guess, did not want to participate in the documentary. And I can’t imagine why. Sure. And Heidi Fleiss, whose name I had known, but I just don’t think I knew that she was the Hollywood madam. The three of them all kind of are of the same vein of like broads. You know what I mean, like I

 

Louis Virtel A certain kind of long bang in the hair, yeah.

 

Akilah Green They all look like they need to have a cigarette in their mouth even if they didn’t have they had cigarette in the mouth energy

 

Louis Virtel And you know that we’re allegedly getting a biopic of Heidi Fleiss with Aubrey Plaza coming up. I’m interested. And the casting is dynamite.

 

Akilah Green I’m interested.

 

Louis Virtel Like that world weary, there’s a kind of smoker, and you were just describing it basically, someone who belongs, there is no other place in the world they belong at a slot machine. You know, just like, intensely looking, like dreary, world weary.

 

Akilah Green Maybe flicking the ashes in an empty rum and Coke.

 

Louis Virtel OH N-

 

Akilah Green Oh!

 

Louis Virtel Are you Hunter S. Thompson? This vivid imagery.

 

Akilah Green But Heidi Fleiss, it seems like she was maybe in her home in Malibu, she’s cussing out her parents. Yes. And I was like, who is this? But beyond that, I think like, you know, him expressing his new sexual appetite was like, I don’t know what else I took from that. I loved his relationship with his father, it seemed like his ex-wives and his children seemed to really be fond of him, and so I thought that was a nice way, I needed a nice ending. Yeah

 

Louis Virtel Yes, no it’s nice that there was some of that there because the time the news cycle was so There’s no other word for it chaotic. Yes, that it’s like they could have all landed any different places

 

Akilah Green Yes. They went through that hole when he got fired from Two and a Half Men, which I’ve never seen a frame of, but I do remember that firing was pretty epic, and he like burned down all the bridges. And then he went on that tour. It was like a one-man show tour where he was basically like everybody and had such a following from that. And I was like, oh, yes, we’ve been rewarding problematic men forever. We love it. We think it’s amazing. We love. It’s just the idea that he told his boss off. People were like, fuck yeah.

 

Louis Virtel No, right. No, exactly, that there was like a rogue energy to him just being like, I’m done with my very popular job where I’m being paid a ton of money. Shocking, yes, very interesting. No, but speaking of CBS, you also are a CBS employee. Yes. You write for Ghosts. Yes. Which we were talking beforehand, is just a great show for fucking jokes. Yes, thank you. Like you go to the show for the jokes, you get the laughs. It’s like traditional. Is it a pleasure to work for because it provides that kind of old school entertainment?

 

Akilah Green The room is so fun because you know the jokes on the page are just a percentage of the jokes that are cracked in the room you know so we have a great time. What I love about Ghost because I’ve worked on a number of shows and some of them nobody’s watched.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, sure been there

 

Akilah Green Many of them people watched and did not like. And so this is a show that people watch and like, including people in my family, which feels really good. I, it’s one of my favorite rooms to work in, which is a very close-knit group of people who like to hang out in our free time, which we, I haven’t always experienced. So like we go on like vacations twice a season that we pay for out of pocket. You’re a little.

 

Louis Virtel You’re a little cult.

 

Akilah Green A little cult. We are. We ARE. No, I’m having a blast on that show.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, that’s not, no, at Kimmel, I’m the only gay writer. Okay. And usually that would mean by commandment, I don’t hang out with these people. Okay. And yet I go to all their effing birthdays and they also are unfortunately hilarious. There you go. And I don’t have to code switch either. That’s fantastic. No, I, it’s shocking. I’m actually a little bit upset. I thought I had like a philosophy about the world and they ruined it. Sure. Yeah. Damn it, damn it. Anyway. This episode we have a lot to talk about. First of all, we’re gonna get into the Emmys, which were this weekend. You and I both have experience with the Emmies. I wrote for one and so did you.

 

Akilah Green And we wrote for the same one during COVID, so it was all via email. So we never were in the same room. And, uh, but yeah.

 

Louis Virtel And by the way, I recommend writing for an award show that way where you just send in a bunch of jokes and let somebody else like put it together.

 

Akilah Green Please, I’ve worked for a handful of award shows and there’s some where we sat in a room for 10 to five every day. I’m like, this is not necessary for what we’re doing today. No, absolutely.

 

Louis Virtel No, absolutely not so we’ll get into this year’s Emmys the winners these snubs, etc The surprises and and the host Nate Bergati. Yes, and how he did we will also talk about our favorite Marital fights and cinema or fights among couples in cinema because we both watched the movie the roses this weekend Which has Olivia Colman and Benedict Cumberbatch and they are just salty as fuck in this movie

 

Akilah Green I mean, just cutting at each other, I loved it.

 

Louis Virtel And it’s also a remake of War of the Roses with Kathleen Turner and Michael Douglas from the 80s, directed by Danny DeVito. So we’ll talk about that. And then later on, in a loving way, I will get into the career of Robert Redford, who just passed away. I had never thought of myself as a stan of this man. And then I looked at his filmography and I know everything about him and have seen the entire thing. So I will do my best to commemorate what he gave us in my keep it today. So look forward to that and bring your pencil. And then our guest today, is one of our favorite people, the hilarious Jaboukie Young White, who’s in the new movie, The Threesome, with Zoe Deutsch, whom I loved in that movie. Everybody wants some, she’s also good in this movie. We’ll talk to him about being funny, about his daily show days, about Twitter, and how we miss what Twitter was. The good old days. That’s why we know each other.

 

Akilah Green That’s right.

 

Louis Virtel She would make a joke, I’d be like, oh, thank God you’re here.

 

Akilah Green Say, and you have a particular type of joke where if I’m scrolling through Twitter and I’m not seeing the name, I know you wrote it. Yeah. Always showing love to an old Hollywood star.

 

Louis Virtel Oh no, if you saw the words Anne Margaret, you’re like, oh, Lewis is awake. Yes. That’s what’s happening. Anyway, that’s what going on this episode of Keep It. We’ll be right back with more of our episode.

 

Louis Virtel [AD].

 

Louis Virtel On Sunday, Nate Borgazzi hosted the 77th Emmys. That is too many Emmys!

 

Akilah Green Ha ha ha ha!

 

Louis Virtel 77?!

 

Akilah Green How many more are we going to have?

 

Louis Virtel I’m gonna say, I’m going to guess two on CBS. It was television’s biggest night and we’re going to get into the biggest moments from the shows that won it all to the charity bit that nearly lost it all several times. Akilah, why don’t we start there with the boys and girls gag. How did it land with you? If you guys didn’t see the Emmys, Nate Bargatze set up this bit where when a winner’s speech went long, too long, you would see on the screen this money designated for charity would dwindle away the longer they wasted time. What did you think of that bit?

 

Akilah Green Multiple thoughts about it. First of all, I thought it was cute as a gag. It went on too long. But I will say that it did help put a cap on these speeches, and it kept the award show from dragging on forever. And that I appreciate because I feel like nobody’s really inventing anything new. It’s, I didn’t think I was going to win. I didn’t prepare anything. I want to give a shout out to my soulmate, my rock, my heart outside of my body. I’m crying and blah, blah, I was like, we’ve seen it all before. So Unless you’re inventing something new, cap it at 45 seconds.

 

Louis Virtel You’re right, I guess that there is an upside to this bit that I think everybody agrees kind of failed. Because we went back to it too many times, and too many of the speeches then ended up being about the bit, so it cut into the thing we want, which is these speeches. The Emmys don’t have any distractions, like there’s no musical performances, there’s not really like tributes to old TV other than like stars of old TV shows may come and be presenters for an award. So it’s like we really are in this award space just to hear these people give speeches. I think the thing that bothered me about this was I didn’t feel that the host dialed into any of the particular people there. It was just he acted as like a referee and nothing else.

 

Akilah Green Which was interesting because I liked him as a host. And you know, he’s not Kimmel, right? So he’s been doing it forever. And it doesn’t seem like he’s friends with a lot of people in the audience. So he couldn’t quite work the crowd and do a bit because nobody really knew him that way. So in that way, he was a bit of an outsider and kind of an underdog, which made it easy for me to kind of root for him. I also feel like the reason they kept going back to this bit is because they didn’t have others that they felt comfortable with. And if they didn’t feel comfortable with it, I’m glad that we didn’t see it. And so this felt like what his thing, and I think he ripped a little bit off of what he had just seen with the presenters before. So I enjoyed his energy. And I enjoy, again, keep it tight. I think that the bit, the Boys and Girls Club bit, will put pressure on winners to give us something good.

 

Louis Virtel By the way, I want people to be novel with this speech. I have something I can’t get over. Recently, when Quincy Jones died, Rashida Jones gave a speech at an Oscars special ceremony about him. And in the speech, she said, and by the way you should go check out these albums by him. She went specifically through his career and taught us about it. And I was like, that’s so novel. Like you thought about, you have this captive audience of like arts lovers, you know, whatever. And you’re actually teaching something as opposed to just saying this person was great. And I like set something off in me. Like I want more people to take advantage of the fact that we are paying attention.

 

Akilah Green Use the time wisely, or be really funny.

 

Louis Virtel Yes! Right, hilarious. And we had a number of hilarious winners, I think, this year. Luckily. Who were your favorite winners of the night?

 

Akilah Green Tramell Tillman, I enjoyed his speech. I enjoyed how he started it when he was embodying his mother. I love that he gave her a shout out. I love it was quick. I feel like I’ve never gotten into severance. I tried, I couldn’t get into it. But he made a mark, he made an impression on me and I appreciated that. Hannah Einbinder, she started off being like, I was ready to commit to continuing this narrative of being cool to lose, but like I guess winning is rock and roll. And I was like, that’s so relatable. She had like. Girded herself for another loss and then I thought that was fine.

 

Louis Virtel And also that’s like actual comedy. Oh, you came up with something smart and novel to say about your own participation in the ceremony.

 

Akilah Green This is what I mean and then the little adolescents

 

Louis Virtel Man, and also, when I looked at all the nominees, I mean, it’s just like, usually, in a way, I don’t root for children to win because I want there to be a mystique to acting that only adults can access. You know, like when Tatum O’Neil won the Oscar, I’m like, did all the other nominees feel like shit? Like, Madeline Kahn’s like, I’m amazing, what happened? You know? But on that show, and of course, Owen Cooper, in adolescence, that was his first ever role. That’s what I mean. Like, he earned it, you know what I’m mean? Yeah, it was a. A hair-raising performance, just like everything in adolescence was hair-racing, and of course Erin Doherty also won. She plays the psychologist in the episode where he basically admits what happened. And Ben Stephen Graham, the creator, co-writer, he won every Emmy in sight, including Best Actor.

 

Akilah Green He was so adorable and I kind of like I don’t really love when people are super earnest, but I I enjoyed it on him and also

 

Louis Virtel And also, I guess he’s just the world’s shortest person.

 

Akilah Green He is, and so cute.

 

Louis Virtel Who knew? When you have that kind of gruff exterior and he looks like he runs like a bowling alley, like a Navy, you know what I mean? But no, he had a real sweetness to him.

 

Akilah Green Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel And it’s such an unusual project too, like, audacious in one way because every episode is one shot, but also just the idea that you can just not pull focus away from what’s on screen at all and it’s compelling at every moment, even when seemingly nothing is going on. Like, I don’t even know why this was an idea he had.

 

Akilah Green I love it. It’s a feat. And I’m really glad that they got rewarded for that. Them and the studio were like, to me, I feel like the night’s biggest winners, right? With the most awards.

 

Louis Virtel What are your feelings on the show, the studio?

 

Akilah Green I enjoyed it i i’m a seth rogan head though i don’t enjoy it whatever set is putting out i’m going to give it a shot i can see episode two i think is the one where they have the one shot and they were it

 

Louis Virtel A one-shot episode, yes. Gretta Lee is the movie star who’s filming a scene, yes

 

Akilah Green and I was on the ride. And then it felt like every episode after that had that same kind of chaotic energy. And I was like, okay, it’s a lot for my little heart. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel I feel like something that show had trouble reconciling for me was it wanted to be not slice of life but like hyper realistic and telling you exactly how the industry is in one way and then also so broadly funny and with character types that were so jarringly stupid, that they didn’t belong in almost any reality, seemingly, but-

 

Akilah Green Talking about Katherine Hahn’s character?

 

Louis Virtel Well, the deal with Catherine Hahn’s character is I feel like they’re making fun of somebody I haven’t met.

 

Akilah Green This is what I talk about with my friends. I do not recognize this character. I’ve been around execs for a while. I’ve never seen this person in nature.

 

Louis Virtel No, she has this sort of a gruff, I’m gonna call it Susan Powder energy, like somebody who used to have like a workout empire or something, but she’s this exec who works in the studio and she’s just, alpha I guess is the word, but it’s extremely loud and never subtle.

 

Akilah Green But always in like, B-girl attire, you know what I mean? Like not even street wear, like something else with like big gold hoop earrings and maybe a nameplate and maybe like a tracksuit with a stripe down the side.

 

Louis Virtel A giant water bottle.

 

Akilah Green Big, I’ve never seen you before, ma’am.

 

Louis Virtel So you know what she’s kind of doing is Juliette Lewis cosplay like somebody who’s going aggro all the time

 

Akilah Green Sure, a lot of that, a lotta that, yeah.

 

Louis Virtel And I’m not saying she’s incapable of doing that, but it feels like a joke I’m not in on.

 

Akilah Green I think that’s how I felt about it, too.

 

Louis Virtel No, but I am glad that that show won because it’s so memorable to like the look of it Katherine O’Hara is so fabulous on it. Yes, not that I didn’t like her on Schitt’s Creek, but here It’s like she’s in her full power and it makes you realize like we basically had this woman who you know We know from Home Alone and heartburn and Beetlejuice and all sorts of things But we basically didn’t do enough with her for 20 some years and for what reason it’s like She was too Canadian to like raise her hand and say use me more

 

Akilah Green Right, right, right.

 

Louis Virtel So it’s like upsetting to me. One of my favorite winners of the night was the lovely Jeff Hiller from Somebody Somewhere, Bridget Everett’s show, which is canceled. He clearly was shocked to win. I think it’s one of the few shocking wins of the

 

Akilah Green Okay, right.

 

Louis Virtel Clearly an underdog win, and he went up to the mic and said thank you for putting us on the same network as the sexy teens of Euphoria, and you know what fucking happened during that win that I love that always happens during award shows? When the gay guy wins, they need to shoot to somebody else and they pick every other gay person in sight. They’re like, Bowen Yang, Michael Urie.

 

Akilah Green I love that.

 

Louis Virtel RuPaul, headshot of Harvey Milk. Sure. You know?

 

Akilah Green It’s a b-roll in there.

 

Louis Virtel Eleanor Roosevelt in, allegedly, in a history book. Before he gets to the stage and gives this lovely speech, wearing an outfit that can only be described as your grandma’s couch.

 

Akilah Green And he’s like six foot something, so it’s a lot of this outfit. It was a lot.

 

Louis Virtel It was a lot, it was the same silhouette as RuPaul.

 

Akilah Green Yes, it was like

 

Louis Virtel It was like they came in a set during like a Dolce& Gabbana show.

 

Akilah Green Yes, yes, yes. He was also on my list of best winners. And I can’t even remember what he said, but energetically I was touched.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, and it was just the right amount of planned funny and enough time to act, you know, odd and grateful, et cetera. So it was really cool to see.

 

Akilah Green Because what I can’t handle is when you cry too long, like you know, you know what I mean? Once you start shaking your voice and blah blah blah like let’s wrap it up

 

Louis Virtel Do you know, I mean, like, I know it’s a historic speech. Oh, I-

 

Akilah Green Oh, I know we’re going to say it the same way. Halle Berry. Oh, I was gonna say Anne Hathaway.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, well, that’s different. Well, she, the problem with Anne Hathaway was, well, she was just stuck in a moment she couldn’t get out of. People were like a little sick of her. And she was like, I’m gonna come in with a joke that references the one line people know from Les Miserables and people are like, oh, and punch it up.

 

Akilah Green To me, it was also, your movie had, have you seen Story of Us? Yes, of course. Michelle Pfeiffer’s last monolog where it’s just like, ah, ah, aah, ah. You can only do that for 20 seconds. Yeah. I can’t handle it for longer than that. And so we got a little trimmer from Jeff and then we were done. Yes. That’s enough for me.

 

Louis Virtel Also, maybe I’m just too Midwestern. I would be so worried about wasting people’s time.

 

Akilah Green This is what I mean.

 

Louis Virtel You know, there’s an efficiency to language that we can use here.

 

Akilah Green I also think, and I think Nate Barghatze said this, is that we now have social media. So you say your little piece here, and then you go write a whole notes app on your own. Get on Instagram and let it loose. But like, there’s 30 of you guys. We can’t do this all night.

 

Louis Virtel What do you think of the little captions they put on screen for certain winners where they said they’d also like to thank?

 

Akilah Green Oh, I think I missed it.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, under certain winners, they were just like, oh, here are the other people they meant to get around to thinking. I think that works, but at the same time, it also feels like you’re reading like a post-it note or something.

 

Akilah Green Yeah, it feels like, keep it. Yeah, right. This is how I feel about that. You’re dialing in. Yeah, I feel like.

 

Louis Virtel Um, let’s see, who were your favorite presenters of the evening?

 

Akilah Green Okay, so Jennifer Coolidge.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, okay, so I was at the Emmys the other day, backstage, we’re doing the yearly bit Guillermo does with Jimmy Kimmel, and I didn’t get to hear her speech, I saw her speaking, and from what I could see, it looked like she was out there way too long, like bombing, but then I watched it back later and thought she was great.

 

Akilah Green I think if you were watching it in real time, you also were wondering if she was bombing, but then she never did. And so she kept this on the ride and then she landed the plane. I thought she was, you know, the whole bit was like, winning this is not going to change your life. I still get left off with the group chat. I thought that was super fun. My favorites were Ray Romano and Brad Garrett.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, talk about a bit that you might have thought went on too long, where Brad Garrett and Ray Romano of Everybody Loves Raymond were talking about the old days of their show must be 20 years since it began. And Brad Garrett was saying like, you’re doing so much better than I have. And it turned into this like despairing, Sort of back and forth.

 

Akilah Green So, I love Everybody Loves Raymond. When I was in law school, I didn’t have time for TV, so I only watched Everybody Loved Raymond, Mad About You, and Golden Girls DVDs.

 

Louis Virtel Ain’t nothing wrong with that!

 

Akilah Green It was a great lineup, on loop for three years, and so everybody loves Raymond.

 

Louis Virtel Something might be wrong with you.

 

Akilah Green Sure, my brain is broken, but I love them. And so I felt like they had the same comedic timing and the same great jokes that they always had. I was like, give them another show. And I’m kind of anti-remake, but I was, like, I’d see those two on a screen doing something again.

 

Louis Virtel Well, first of all, we did get the weird Mad About You remake on Spectrum TV.

 

Akilah Green It hurt my heart because, and I’m doing a Mad About You re-watch right now, but I’ll never revisit the 2019 one. No. I actually, I haven’t found many remakes that I’ve enjoyed.

 

Louis Virtel No, I mean, who was like hurting for that Frasier reboot? You know, it’s like, also it’s that we literally want to watch the old episodes. We want to immerse ourselves in the culture of that time.

 

Akilah Green Yes, and I think all of these shows, these 90s sitcoms have tried to like appeal to a younger generation, but no, we want it problematic. We want it all white, like you had before, okay? Because you don’t hang out with black people and that’s okay. We liked you then, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Memo to the 2000s. You didn’t hang out with black people then and we love it.

 

Akilah Green I mean, I’m going to zip it because I was about to get on a roll about which shows that I don’t like it I don’t like to crap on other people’s shows

 

Louis Virtel No, everybody on Everybody Loves Raymond is hilarious. I love Peter Boyle, I love Doris Roberts, just legends. My favorite presenters in the night were actually Ike Barinholtz and Catherine Hahn, who did a bit about how the writers are the least important part of the television process. And so they stood up there and told the teleprompter people to turn it off. And then they just spiraled and said things like, Noah Wiley, you’re so good on scrubs. That was great. That felt to me almost like a bit like Kristen Wiig and Will Ferrell would have done 10 years ago. Tina Amey bit, yeah, for sure.

 

Akilah Green And it was what, their spiral was just unfunny enough. Like, because sometimes you could script the spiral and it’s still funny. This was awkward and bad, like it should have been. Yes.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, just the right amount of exchanging glances and not knowing what to do while keeping it sort of on track. Let’s see. Jean Smart, one for Hacks yet again. Yes. Are you with Stan? How do you feel about Jean Smart? Smart.

 

Akilah Green I’m a designing woman, girly.

 

Louis Virtel You may stay acute.

 

Akilah Green That is what I could

 

Louis Virtel I could rank the designing one.

 

Akilah Green Yes, that’s my show done, you know, 10 rewatches at this point. So I’m just, I’m super grateful that she’s working, not just working, but killing it at the top of her game, looking incredible. Yeah. She always serves it when she gets up there on those stages. I have not seen Hacks in a few seasons, I’ll say that, but I’m glad that she keeps getting accolades.

 

Louis Virtel She, I guess my feeling about her is, I do think she’s been, I don’t know about better, but more hilarious in other roles. I think the show is funny. It’s a very pleasant show. Like you can sit through it and like all the characters have gotten more relatable over time. Like I love Hannah Einbinder most now on the show. You know, but you’re right, Designing Women. We used to have shows where the whole point was, let’s have these characters get pissed and then monolog for a long time. Yes. No, I’m still wrapping my head around the fact that Dixie Carter was a Republican in real life.

 

Akilah Green In real life. She served it. It was shocking when we, I think we all collectively learned that at the same time and we’re like, how? Why? Yes. Wow. Why, yes.

 

Louis Virtel Why? No, and she just has that, I call it all neck acting. Yes. Where just everything is like jolted and strained here. If you know Judy Davis, she’s the queen of this. But you just trust that people who have that much stress going on in their body.

 

Akilah Green But there is kind of a Karen-ness to Julia Sugarbreaker that you can see kind of veer into Republic. I can see where she’s drawing from.

 

Louis Virtel And also, it’s a show you can tell was actually created by a woman. Yes. You know, some of these shows, I’m like, I can hear the seven men dialing into what they think Blanche Deveraux would say in this situation, you know.

 

Akilah Green Yeah, yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Linda, Bloodworth, Tommas, and Queen. The Traders one again, are you a Traders fan?

 

Akilah Green Not seen the traders. Love Alan Cumming though. What a delight anytime Alan’s on screen.

 

Louis Virtel I also just think he’s the rare case of somebody who blends seamlessly, like in this way that Rosie O’Donnell used to, somebody who like belongs in MC positions will play the MC on Broadway and then will just be an actor and then we’ll be a com, it just, he kind of belongs everywhere. If he released an album, I wouldn’t be surprised.

 

Akilah Green My, I think intro to Alan would be the anniversary party with Jennifer Jason Lee. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Also, I love that friendship and I love that movie.

 

Akilah Green Yes, that’s such a good movie.

 

Louis Virtel Akilah, I love that movie. I haven’t thought of it in forever.

 

Akilah Green I might have to just re-watch it.

 

Louis Virtel Jennifer Jason Lee is an amazing actress once every six times.

 

Akilah Green Ahh haa ha ha.

 

Louis Virtel And then you watch her in something else, you’re like, you’re screaming or whatever.

 

Akilah Green That’s a tough stat.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my god when she’s in the HUD sucker proxy, I’m like, oh my god, you’re barking at me

 

Akilah Green Oh no, I haven’t seen it.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, she’s a great actress, and I’m still getting over how much we hit her in The Hateful Eight. But otherwise, have you seen The Pit?

 

Akilah Green I have, I’ve seen every episode and I’ll tell you, I’ve never in my life seen a medical drama until this show.

 

Louis Virtel Like, not a single episode.

 

Akilah Green Not as i don’t i’ve never seen a frame of er i don’t know what’s happening

 

Louis Virtel I watched quite a bit of Gray’s Anatomy, and I saw a ton of ER, so I’m familiar with no eyeliner.

 

Akilah Green So this is fresh for me and I watched all of it.

 

Louis Virtel What do you think this show what’s the x-factor of this show because I too didn’t even think about it and watch the whole thing

 

Akilah Green Kept it moving. It hit me with something new every five minutes, you know? I really enjoyed the cast. Oh, another winner. I’m gonna mess up her name.

 

Louis Virtel Catherine Lanasa.

 

Akilah Green Okay, loved her. Love her character.

 

Louis Virtel She was great on the show. I think she dialed the show in, like made it seem real.

 

Akilah Green Yes! I really enjoyed her character, and I’ve seen her on social media and I think she seemed like a cool chick.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, and also, I brought this up on the show before, the most amazing three marriage combo of all time. She used to be married to Dennis Hopper, and then she was married to French Stewart of Third Rock from the Sun, and now she’s married to Grant Show from Melrose Place. What a combo.

 

Akilah Green Did not know she was racking it up like that.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, I think what a lot of viewers consider a triumph is that Kristen Milioti won for the penguin Yes, she is she first of all this woman has been in everything over the past 15 years seems rad altogether And then in this I can’t believe I’m saying this she defeated Cate Blanchett, and I’m okay with it

 

Akilah Green Okay, okay, because it was earned. I have not seen the.

 

Louis Virtel Well, imagine me watching The Penguin most of the time. Does that sound like something I would do? Sure, okay. I actually did. It is worth it. Okay. You know, and Colin Farrell is, of course, mysteriously now one of our greatest actors. Yeah. Mysteriously. Yeah. And I’m just saying, I remember watching him in like supporting roles in the 2000s, being like, all right, he is deeply hot. And then we put him in, you know, remakes of like Total Recall. I’m like, this is the kind of actor you are. And then Banshees of Inisheeran happened. And I said, wait a minute, you’re amazing. You’re amazing.

 

Akilah Green I love that. That’s what you want in your career. You know. Was this Kristen’s first Emmy? Yes. That’s exciting. Yes. That’s great.

 

Louis Virtel Now, outstanding talk series. I can’t officially root for Stephen Colbert because our show, Jimmy Kimmel Live, was also nominated. And yet, on our own FYC posters, it says, Jimmy says, I’m voting for Stephen.

 

Akilah Green Oh, I love that.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, I’m not that magnanimous. I want to win.

 

Akilah Green All the time.

 

Louis Virtel But how did you feel about that moment when he was announced as the winner?

 

Akilah Green I mean, it was lovely. I mean I feel like Stephen Colbert is kind of representative of that era of The Daily Show, the first time Jon Stewart and kind of all the spinoffs, John Oliver, Samantha Bee, Jordan Klepper. I feel, like Robin Thede had the nightly show, Larry Wilmore, and I feel you see that kind of coming to an end. Yeah. I feel Colbert, like that show ending is kind really driving it home that that era is ending and so that’s tough.

 

Louis Virtel Here’s the thing, I am so psyched he won. I mean, like what has happened to him is utterly unprecedented. You know, this Trump tinged situation is very precarious and strange and terrifying. He is also, of course, a very strange multi-hyphenate. When you watch him on Strangers with Candy, you’re like, how is this the same person? Like he is a demented sketch actor who loved seemingly being weirder and weirter to the point when… The Colbert report happened, it was shocking that he could turn this into an entire nightly enterprise. To this day, it feels like such an undertaking, real hardcore character work going on every single night as he delivers these hard jokes. I remain shocked at the incarnation he became on CBS where it was just, I’m a relatable person. I didn’t know he had that in him. So for the sheer versatility of what he has brought us, I’m so psyched he won. Yes. That said. God, do I love winning. I came to this industry to win.

 

Akilah Green To win. Understood. You and Charlie Sheen.

 

Louis Virtel That’s me. Can I say something else about Charlie Sheen? He really impugned the word winning.

 

Akilah Green Winning.

 

Louis Virtel I literally, back in the day when you would have Facebook profiles.

 

Akilah Green Yes.

 

Louis Virtel It would say your interests. My number one thing was winning. Like I’m here for that. You know, I want to win a game night and be not invited to the next one.

 

Akilah Green Ha, because you were that obnoxious. I love that, I love it.

 

Louis Virtel Dang, except then he turned it into this sort of like, agro man thing, I’m like, that’s not, it’s supposed to be fruity, sorry.

 

Akilah Green Yeah, the quote was like winning so radically in our underwear before you even had your first cup of coffee or whatever.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Akilah Green It was like okay. You’ve taken it too far

 

Louis Virtel No, don’t be Maya Angelou.

 

Akilah Green Haha haha.

 

Louis Virtel I don’t need this to be a verse.

 

Akilah Green From you. Yeah, yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, so I continue to be mad at him for that, but.

 

Akilah Green But congrats to him.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, and also Stephen Colbert handled the speech wonderfully too, though. So he quoted, Let’s Go Crazy by Prince. And he said, when the elevator tries to break you down, go crazy. And then he said and then punch a higher floor. What was that?

 

Akilah Green He’s up in age. Okay. I think, you know, he added like a dad spin to it.

 

Louis Virtel I just didn’t know that you could just add to Prince Lyrax.

 

Akilah Green Sure, Stephen Colbert said, I can.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Akilah Green I did.

 

Louis Virtel It was like if somebody did the lyrics to when doves cry and then they’re like, actually doves don’t usually cry. What actually, like an ornithologist jumps into the- And you’re kind of like, well, you didn’t even have to start with that quote. Nobody, that wasn’t required by law. I’m still coping with the fact that we’re quoting Prince.

 

Akilah Green Yeah, yeah, you could have done your own thing.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, okay, great. Though I will say, the show did basically run on time thanks to this gimmick. So I kind of can’t wholesale hate it, even though I am sick of award shows run by people who think we don’t want to see the award shows and we want to be shamed for watching them.

 

Akilah Green Interesting. How does that like what are the things that are markers of that to you?

 

Louis Virtel Well, just like the entire like, don’t let your speech run too long. It’s like, guys, when else is a woman just speaking on television? Sorry. Yeah.

 

Akilah Green Sorry, yeah, and you know as I’ve been of two minds because I also want them to like wrap it up Because I at some point I stopped watching award shows because they just go because you know you get the clips and the highlights You don’t have to watch right So I think maybe the last one I saw was like when will slapped Chris and in real I guess that’s a good one to end on you know That’s the last when I’ve watched in real time, and so I’m on the one hand I am like listen three hours is too long on the other hand these winners have Once starved themselves for a month to get on this stage. They’ve shellacked buffed, scraped, you know what I mean? They’re a bowling ball. They’re hungry, they’re desperate, family is watching, their outfit is uncomfortable. I do believe they’ve earned a moment to get on that stage and at least just kind of pose for a second and say a few words. So on that front, I understand, like let them have a moment. Yeah. But I’m just saying make it count.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, make it count. But again, it’s like, when else do we hear a woman speak? When else do hear men of the arts asterisk speak? Okay. When are my people, you know, types? Men of the Arts, I hear you. To put a euphemism on it. I see. But anyway, otherwise it was, I think a very successful award show. At any rate, some quick housekeeping. LA, you’re in luck. Every week, Angelino’s can catch Love It or Leave It, which I guess is another show on this network, live at Dynasty Typewriter. Think of it as an ongoing embarrassment of comedy riches. This Thursday, September 18th, the lineup includes Colton Dunn, Michaela Watkins, and more surprises. And if you can’t make it then, no excuses next week, Thursday September 25th, when Love It is joined by Representative Eric Swalwell, comedian Paul Scheer, and more. Tickets in the full lineup are waiting for you at Crooked.com slash events. Alright when we’re back we’re joined by Jaboukie Young-White.

 

Louis Virtel [AD].

 

Louis Virtel Every time I wish the internet didn’t exist, I remember this week’s guest and hold my tongue because a world where I didn’t have access to his comedy 24-7 would be a deep nightmare. You know him from generally being rad, but he’s also a stand-up, a former correspondent on The Daily Show and an actor in rap shit, Only Murders in the Building, and his current film The Threesome in theaters now. Please welcome to keep it the fabulous and fucking hilarious Jaboukie Young-White.

 

Jaboukie Young-White What’s up? Hey, thank you for having me.

 

Louis Virtel My God, thank you for being here. I can’t believe you haven’t been here before. I can believe you have been drafted by like governmental intervention to come here.

 

Jaboukie Young-White No, it’s kind of fucked up. Like, I don’t know how I slip through the cracks like that.

 

Louis Virtel Well, thankfully you’re in this adorable movie right now. But first of all, my question is nothing baffles me more. And this goes back to like comedians through the ages, even people like Roseanne. And I’m about to compare you to Roseanne, so just be aware.

 

Jaboukie Young-White I get that all the time

 

Louis Virtel But when people who are verbally funny, just comics, then go into acting, that feels like a complete skill shift and I don’t understand how people do it. How has taking to the big screen been for you as somebody who is just an awesome comic?

 

Jaboukie Young-White Thank you, wow. I’m taking a moment to just absorb all those compliments that were put in there. But it has been easy in a lot of ways, hard in a lotta other ways. I find that just from doing stand-up, you kind of develop this really naturalistic way of speaking where the goal is to try to seem like you’re just coming up with it off the spot. But then, kind of beyond that, I had to really stretch some muscles. I was like, wait, so I can’t just like… Sort of throw everything away and just kind of like be breezy. Like I actually have to create like an arc. Oh, that’s kind of crazy. Maybe I should like see someone for that. So yeah, then I just started working with a coach and honestly, a lot of fun. I love acting.

 

Akilah Green I would say, I don’t know if you remember, I consulted on rap shit for about two seconds toward the end, and you used to kill it all the time, we used to love for you to be at table reads because you were about to hit it out of the park, and so you were so great, as Francois Boom, I think you were a music producer. You were just a d- a delight every time you came on screen, so prepared, so good. So that’s interesting, how long have you been working with your coach?

 

Jaboukie Young-White Wow, you know for maybe like a few years now rap shit was uh That was when I was like, okay I really am enjoying acting and I kind of want to start taking this more seriously Um, it’s so serious to the point that I walked around with that fuck-ass Francois boom goatee This goateed that I was not pulling off as Jaboukie and I wore that for like six months I really did and it was not easy. It was not to live with a goatee instead of my little Bushwick mandatory gay mustache.

 

Louis Virtel That’s interesting that you say that’s when you started really enjoying acting. Was there a hiccup before it sort of took for you?

 

Jaboukie Young-White Well, I think it was something that I thought was fun and was cool to dip into every now and then. But I’d never really been in something that was that long-term of a project, where we’re thinking like episode arcs and like season. It was more so just like I drop in, I’m goofy for a bit and then I go home, which I love. I love doing that still, but it was fun kind of taking it a little deeper.

 

Louis Virtel What was it like in this movie, you co-star along with Zoe Deutsch among others, where you just have to imitate the part of being good friends with people? Is that something you could do immediately or is it, you know, a grand lie?

 

Jaboukie Young-White I find that as I do it more often, it’s getting easier and easier, but it is not something that I can do. Because in real life, I really don’t do that. Like my friendship is earned. It really is. There is, like I hate an over-familiarity, like off rip. I’m like, we haven’t gotten there. You need to pull it back. I’m a little too Midwestern for that, I think. I’m, like, I need you to be polite first. We need to talk about the weather, warm me up, and then we can get into the like, busting each other’s balls part, yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Also, one of my favorite movies you’ve done was Come On, Come On a couple of years ago with the fabulous Joaquin Phoenix and the fabulous Gabby Hoffman, who was a great interview on this show too. What were your experiences on that movie? That filmmaker also has not missed for me once yet.

 

Jaboukie Young-White That was, honestly, maybe rap shit isn’t the right place for me to place that acting journey, just because I remember in that project, working across from Joaquin was like, that was where I was like I have so far to go, like this is someone who is at the top of his game and was just a force to work with. And also Mike Mills, Beginner’s life changing movie for me. Um, I remember, I don’t, I mean spoilers, it’s about his. Father basically who like came out later in life uh who inspired the film i remember watching that being like i have got to get gay fast

 

Louis Virtel You are lagging!

 

Jaboukie Young-White Yeah, I can’t wait that long. That’s Navi. So it was kind of like a full circle moment working with him.

 

Louis Virtel That’s also the only movie I’ve seen that has the L.A. Gay bar, Ackbar, in it. And to this day, I’m like, there’s a level of realism in that movie that nothing else can achieve, because that’s just the ground level, normal L. A. Gay experience, going to fucking Ack bar.

 

Jaboukie Young-White I have not watched it in so long I need to re-watch it now. Because you’re so right, there is a dearth of Akbar on screen for sure.

 

Louis Virtel No, also LA gay culture and period. There’s just not too many movies that actually cover that. But also you, Akilah and I have something in common, which is we come from a now forbidden zone called Twitter, where you would once upon a time enjoy sharing opinions with other people, little jokes, things like that.

 

Jaboukie Young-White Remember those all my-

 

Louis Virtel Oh my god, I missed her.

 

Akilah Green Back when Twitter used to be fun

 

Louis Virtel Yes, there would be little jokes. We would all share them. Do you at all kind of long for the heyday of Twitter the way some of us do? I mean now you go there and it’s it’s I mean

 

Akilah Green A war zone?

 

Louis Virtel Beyond that it’s like 70 wars. You don’t even know which war you’re looking at

 

Akilah Green All right.

 

Jaboukie Young-White So true, there’s like no way to neutrally be on Twitter anymore.

 

Akilah Green Right.

 

Jaboukie Young-White Like everything is so, so charged. You know, I do miss that era of Twitter, but I think more in general, I miss that error of the internet. Like it felt like we had this cultural appetite in the late aughts into like the mid 2010s where everything was like, I think the flagship of this was a girl talk. Yes. You know, where it was like mashup culture and everything is high, low. Everything is referencing a million different things. And there was like an inherent curiosity that we had with culture that I feel like is is gone and not even necessarily of our own doing. I think that algorithms are driving us to only want more and more of what’s easily palatable to us. So, yeah, I do miss shit posting.

 

Akilah Green Great at it

 

Louis Virtel I’m the definitive.

 

Akilah Green Didn’t you get suspended? What was, what did you do? That it doesn’t matter. Those were the days where it was a badge of honor to get suspended because you should post it. Um, my shallow elitist take is that I miss when a blue check meant something when you couldn’t pay for it and we all kind of knew each other. And that’s how we all communicated. Those were.

 

Jaboukie Young-White Right, you know what’s weird though is that I feel like I’ve developed a third sense where I could see a blue check And I’m like that’s not real. That one’s not You know

 

Akilah Green I think that’s 99 percent.

 

Louis Virtel It’s like an EarthSats Academy Award you can buy on Hollywood Boulevard or something. You’re like, it’s too small. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What are your recollections of having worked on The Daily Show, which I feel like that to me is a more kind of logical jump from the world of Twitter where it’s like you get to do commentary, you get inhabit the persona you already were. Did that feel like a more sort of authentic place to jump than acting initially?

 

Jaboukie Young-White You know, yeah, I feel like it was more of a logical, at least for how I was being perceived and what I had put out into the world at that time, I think it just made the most sense. And it’s also nice to get paid to be opinionated, I’m sure, as you know. Yeah, right? I just remember taking in that much news was like straight up some clockwork orange type shit. Like, actually… like, just showing up to work and plugging into the machine was really crazy. And I really, oh, they had this cold brew machine there. Some of the best cold brew I’ve had in my life.

 

Louis Virtel And probably the most necessary cold brew. I mean, people who are involved in the news in any way, whether reporting it or having to respond to it, I honestly think caffeine should be reserved in a federal way for only them.

 

Jaboukie Young-White Yes that is so true there should be like a government designated cold brew factory 100 we should bring this up to zaron actually i feel i know some people

 

Akilah Green He can make it. So…

 

Jaboukie Young-White Yeah, I’ll put in a word.

 

Akilah Green So I’m curious, you know, so you, like we said, we started with standup and Twitter, daily show, kind of what are you looking forward to next? What’s next for your acting career?

 

Jaboukie Young-White Um, you know, what a good question. I feel like I’m really open. I think the industry is changing in a interesting way that I’m not trying to cling too tightly to, um, ideas of my career that I had earlier. I’d rather just. Sort of be aware of the landscape and see if there’s any opportunities to do something exciting or new or unexpected. I love that. I feel like that’s kind of what’s exciting me right now.

 

Louis Virtel It’s nice that you said it’s changing and not just diminishing or going away altogether. Thank you so much.

 

Akilah Green Cause I couldn’t handle that this morning.

 

Louis Virtel Me weeping is like white-knuckle this table knowing it’s all going away soon.

 

Jaboukie Young-White Yeah, I mean, it’s gone away so many different times.

 

Louis Virtel Short. True.

 

Jaboukie Young-White You know, it’ll always just like take a different shape who knows what that shape could be. Maybe we’ll all be streamers but

 

Louis Virtel But I don’t know. There is some optimism to that. And of course, also peril. But we’ll see which way it goes. Now, it must be said, a little bird told me. We have a mutual friend in common who is one of my all-time girls, Patrick Rogers, who I don’t normally call, he is so legit when it comes to knowing pop culture. And I don’t know many of these people. But he told me that you are a deep stand of two people. He said Charlie XCX and Addison Rae. And I didn’t know that I would have actually predicted either of those. But tell me, Edison Ray is kind of a new interest of mine. I love the last album, but what does she do for you?

 

Jaboukie Young-White So what Addison and what Charlie do is, for pop music, for me, I need it to be pushing it to the point where it’s almost egregious how much they’re smashing the dopamine button. And I feel like Charlie does that, Addison does that. I think the first three tracks in her new album, perfect. A pop song called Money Is Everything, that’s all I need. That’s what I’m going to pop for, like. Sell to me, sell me fantasy, you know, like give me like capitalist idol. That’s what I’m going to pop for. And then also the production on it is just really great. I think that she’s doing something that’s very, like the production is very studied. It feels referential in a way that’s like checking the boxes, but then also pushing it a little bit, but then also not taking itself too seriously. I really like that. And then Charlie is just like, you, know, the poet laureate of Bushwick, so.

 

Louis Virtel It must be said about Edison Ray. So the first track on that album was called New York. And when she’s going off, I mean, literally the lyrics are like, love New York, love, New York love, New York loved New York like you feel like you’re listening to some like apocalyptic pop noises at first. And then a minute in you are entranced. Like she has solved something and it becomes good music that initially feels like it fell out of a pop machine. All I’m saying is. She is changing the way things sound in a certain way. And I’m both excited and a little scared because as you say, it hits a dopamine button in such a direct way that it’s like muting a lot that came before it.

 

Jaboukie Young-White Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, and I think that’s what it is where it’s like it’s taking five seconds of the reference and that is the whole song Yes, and and I love that because I I’m the type of person where there are certain certain songs where I will just go And listen to the 15 second bit over and over again, and i’m like, okay, I got what I needed I don’t need I don’t need the rest and I loved it when an artist is like I’m just going to give you that 15 seconds Love that

 

Louis Virtel You are dialed into the TikTok of it all. You’re saying I embrace it.

 

Jaboukie Young-White Yes, I love it, like push it all the way. And I mean, I still like, there’s a time and a place for everything. Like I will listen, I will go to a noise show where someone is hitting an F key for an hour straight at like Pioneer Works or some shit. I will do that. But when I want my dopamine, I want dopamine.

 

Louis Virtel It reminds me a little bit, do you remember that guy, Andrew W.K., who when he would play the piano, like he had songs called like Party Hard, where it would be like hitting one piano key again and again, and people would be thrashing around like bleeding, like, just like, despairingly loving the music.

 

Jaboukie Young-White Yeah, I feel like there is something that is ancestral about that. Like, when a song is doing that, I’m in like a sweat lodge. I’m dancing. I’m working through something. Like, it’s deep. It’s deep

 

Louis Virtel Now we should talk about Threesome a little bit more, The Threesome a little more. What were your experiences filming this? What was it like working with this particular team?

 

Jaboukie Young-White It was, first of all, we were in Little Rock, Arkansas in the winter and that already presented a really new experience for me. I remember like getting ready to go and I was like, yeah, I’m gonna be gone for like a month. I’m going to be in Little rock, Arkansas and everyone in Brooklyn is like, are you going to okay? Everything all right. I’m in Little Rock and I’m like, yeah, I’m going back to New York next month. They’re like, is everything all, right? Are you gonna be okay? So it was like definitely a change of scenery. What was crazy though is that I was like, totally chill, totally fine. Like that experience alone of shooting in another place like that, which is also that’s another thing I love about acting is just like having a little pretend life somewhere for like a month. And then just going back home, I love that part. So even just that aspect of being out of sorts in a way, I think really brought us closer together very quickly. So like the pretending to be friends thing was kind of easy because I’m like, I literally don’t know anyone else at all. Like you are the only people who I have any sort of like previous relationship with. But the process itself was just really fun. Chad was so great to work with. I love Chad. And So is the cast. I don’t know, it just was like, it was also coming out of the strike and I think everyone was just like, work. Ah, so thankful to be here. Like we were just in such a great mood. So I don’t know, just the overall really great experience.

 

Louis Virtel It’s always like they say, you must see Little Rock in January. Oh my god. Everyone’s at their best. They’re most shining. Now, obviously, as a stand-up, you’ve been everywhere. What do you think is an under-heralded American city for gay people to visit?

 

Jaboukie Young-White Ooh, you know, I am gonna say. Portland.

 

Louis Virtel Which is, I would say, a different subset of gay going on over there. Shall we say women? They exist too, Akilah. I’ve heard it.

 

Jaboukie Young-White Yes, yes, there are some I’ve heard. But I think Portland, because there is definitely a gay scene there, but I think you need to go to a city like Portland to truly figure out if the lifestyle you’re living is the lifestyle that you want or it’s the one that was presented to you.

 

Akilah Green Oh, interesting.

 

Jaboukie Young-White Because in Portland, they get so deep cut queer out there that like you immediately would be like, oh, this is interesting or like, no, not for me. I need to go back to the coast. So I think Portland for sure.

 

Louis Virtel Wow, you’re saying it poses an existential question for gay people when they go there. Like you could be entirely wrong about yourself is what you’re say. Yes. Wow, that is very provocative.

 

Akilah Green I enjoyed the term deep cut queer.

 

Jaboukie Young-White Wait, and what is your answer to this question?

 

Louis Virtel I don’t have many, I remember Guy Branham telling me once upon a time that you become a gay adult and you realize there’s only four possible places you can live, and generally speaking, I thought that was correct and in an elitist way, but if I had to add something, I might go with, I always have a little bit more fun in Washington DC than I think I’m gonna have, but I feel like that’s sort of in the conversation, like you can sort of be gay there and wear your smart khakis.

 

Jaboukie Young-White I feel like DC is one of those warring cities where I feel like obviously New York, obviously LA, and then like Chicago, DC and like Atlanta or like Houston or maybe Miami are always warring to be the third in line city.

 

Louis Virtel Right, yeah, like they’re all kind of on the poster for Gay but in small print, yeah.

 

Jaboukie Young-White Right, exactly, exactly. They’re like in the Coachella gay lineup.

 

Louis Virtel Right. They’re on like the third line with like Carly Rae Jepsen. Yeah.

 

Jaboukie Young-White Surprisingly like a lot of straight people there excited for the gay stuff. Yeah, I’ve heard that Carly Concerts are like a lots of straight men

 

Louis Virtel But get this, I have three straight brothers and my two younger brothers go to Carly Rae Jepsen concerts all the time and I just don’t understand anything anymore. Wow. And they are straight. I’m telling you, they look like hockey culture. I’m just saying.

 

Jaboukie Young-White Yeah. Hockey coach. It’s a particular brand. That is heterosexual that you can get.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Also, my last question for you is, I hear you like going to the Metrograph in New York and you will see an old movie on occasion. I was wondering if you’d seen any old movies in the theater recently that thrilled you.

 

Jaboukie Young-White Okay, that thrilled me. You know, I saw the trial by Orson Welles.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, with Anthony Perkins, one of the great homosexuals of all time.

 

Jaboukie Young-White Yes. And I honestly, it’s one of those films where I’m like, okay, this was important. This was an important movie to watch. Did I have fun necessarily? No, I learned a lot. But one of my favorite parts about it is the queer subtext in that film is like screaming at you, where it’s basically this guy who’s on trial for doing something wrong, but he doesn’t think he did anything wrong. And it’s like this Kafkaesque like paranoia that he develops. Um, the entire time I’m like, oh, it’s cause you’re gay and everyone watching this was like, Oh, that guy’s gay. I, I was like fascinated by it. Cause he really is moving in a way where I’m, like, I think those movements scanned as gay in any time in human history. Like, I don’t think you could flop around like that and people not be like something’s this guy’s a little sweet.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, I would describe he had a resting seriousness that was also prissy So like yeah, I think could only read as gay and someone like Orson Welles would have been keyed into that he and Hitchcock I think both loved like attractive gayish people in peril. Like I literally think they thought it was funny

 

Jaboukie Young-White It’s kind of like inverse where like a gay man loves an attractive woman in peril. I think maybe those, I don’t know, we’re onto something. We really just tapped into a deep vein of film history there, I think.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, well now I need an actual auteur to put you in a thing where you’re a gay man in peril and he is just living for it.

 

Jaboukie Young-White I’m open, um, Ari Aster. Hit me up.

 

Louis Virtel Jaboukie, thank you so much for being here. The new movie, The Threesome, is in theaters now and it’s adorable and you’re great in it. And also you’re just hilarious anyway, and thank you for so much being here, and by the way, you’re coming back sooner than later. This has been disgusting how long it took.

 

Jaboukie Young-White I know, oh my god, okay, I’m excited.

 

Louis Virtel [AD].

 

Louis Virtel Olivia Colman is back in theaters with The Roses, and Akilah, you’re a huge fan of the 1989 film that inspired it, The War of the Roses. So we’re gonna get into the new film and discuss our favorite warring couples on screen. First up, Akilah. How does this new film compare to the original?

 

Akilah Green The War of the Roses is one of my favorite movies and one I aspire to like. That tone is one that I like to recreate in what I write. It’s a very dark comedy. I love a little bit of violence and blood. And so I was looking for that tone in this remake and it’s not that tone. It’s really fun. Olivia Colman, I mean, incredibly funny. The jokes, A Mile a Minute, the supporting cast, you got Andy Samberg, Zoe Chao. Really funny. I enjoyed it. I think if I was going to look for what I was looking for in the original, it’s not there, but on its own it’s a very good movie.

 

Louis Virtel I think my problem is with the direction of this movie, because the jokes are good. And when I see them written down, I’m laughing at them. But something about the way this movie comes across in the screen to me, It’s felt like an average modern family episode or something. It was lacking actual grit. Like the 80s movie, something, and it’s by the way, something about those two actors, like Michael Douglas and Kathleen Turner, something is like, do not fuck with them. Kathleen Turner.

 

Akilah Green She have like a, I don’t even know what it was inside. It really looked like I will cut you. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. No, right. Resting violence in their eyes. And also at that point, they had been collaborators several times. They had been in Romancing the Stone and Jewel the Nile, et cetera. So they had sort of an established rapport that I think audiences liked kind of fucking with back then. Here, I didn’t really even believe them as a couple.

 

Akilah Green I wrote that note and I was like, maybe British chemistry is different than American chemistry. I felt that.

 

Louis Virtel Like they both had like they had similar types of one-liners so I could I could see on the page why they would kind of be into each other but Benedict Cumberbatch and Olivia Coleman just it didn’t feel like there was enough x-factor magic there and I feel like you need that to believe the kind of carnage they get into in the movie. Sure.

 

Akilah Green Neither one of them seem that capable of violence. No. Olivia Colman’s delightful. Yeah, right.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. She was scarier in

 

Akilah Green Faze, come on!

 

Louis Virtel She was scarier in The Lost Daughter. Did you see that movie? Yes, I did.

 

Akilah Green Yes, I did see that movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You never forget.

 

Louis Virtel You never forget her in that movie. Even at the beginning of the movie, when she’s dancing to Living on a Prayer and it’s like, this woman’s about to lose it. She’s wild, yeah. Something’s not right.

 

Akilah Green Benedict also, I’m just like, you’re cutie pie, stop it.

 

Louis Virtel He is so cute.

 

Akilah Green You cutie-pie, the two of you together, cut it out.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, just be, can’t you two go and be bookish?

 

Akilah Green Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Louis Virtel So yeah, it doesn’t have the thrills of the original movie that said this is a good way to get into our favorite Warring couples just period fights on screen etc. What ones came to mind for you?

 

Akilah Green Um, so I’m going to work my way to my favorite, but one that came to mind was Shiv and Tom on Succession.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, some of the great fights. Yeah

 

Akilah Green Excellent fights, but their little kind of last big fight outside of their tailgate party where they were like I think they called it We’re gonna clear the air and like they cut each other down and it was like years of stuff It was like you’re a bad person will be a terrible mom, you know, your dad didn’t love you when you’re broken I’m just like, oh my god

 

Louis Virtel Tom on that show is the weirdest combination of pathetic and yet also frightening.

 

Akilah Green And in the end, wins. Yes. And so the tables turn because like, he definitely lashed onto Shiv because she had the power and the legacy and the name. And at the end of it, she lashed on to him because he was like the last one holding the power, and the money, and name. And so to me, it felt like, they ended the show where those two, like she’s pregnant, I believe, and they are together. And I felt like if they were to go on, or if they would have a movie, those two would end up in the Word of the Roses.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, oh nice observation. Also just like, you’re right, that ending they chose for Succession, it feels like it could have gone a number of different ways, was the height of tragedy. So tragic. They really picked the version that was the most, ooh, there’s a rancor to this.

 

Akilah Green The worst possible timeline for Shiv. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel And God, is she unbelievably amazing. So good. Though I did fucking hate that Oscar Wilde thing she did on Broadway. Did you see it?

 

Akilah Green I did not.

 

Louis Virtel It wasn’t better than just reading Oscar Wilde.

 

Akilah Green Oh, no.

 

Louis Virtel It was true. I didn’t know what I was looking at. She was always on a camera and I’m like, don’t be immersive at me.

 

Akilah Green You never want that reviewed. No. Not as good as reading it. No.

 

Louis Virtel Oscar while it’s funny, just make the funny jokes funny. I think my favorite marital confrontation, or a couple confrontation over the past ten years is in the movie Phantom Threat. Have you ever seen? I’ve not. Now Phantom Thread is a well-liked movie among film bucks. Paul Thomas Anderson. It didn’t reach the Oscar’s heights of like, There Will Be Blood, for example, or even Boogie Nights. But Dana Day-Lewis is nominated for Best Actor Oscar. Mysteriously, the woman who plays his paramour, Vicky Creeps, was not. But in this movie, he is this fussy, 50s fashion designer, but definitely a straight man. Okay. His name is Reynolds Woodcock, what else would it be? And everything in his life is arranged just so. Like, his sister works for him, everybody knows their place.

 

Akilah Green I can see this character.

 

Louis Virtel He’s ritualistic and very chic, but runs everything. And this woman who is like not accustomed to his ways, but loves him has to sort of figure out her footing in this sort of the molecrum of life he has developed. And she one day decides to surprise him and you will not be surprised to learn he does not like surprises. She creates a little dinner and it involves asparagus and they’re sitting there eating it and he’s mad he’s there. And he’s eating it and he goes, I like it. And she goes, you don’t like it, you hate it. And she says, and then he goes you know that if I eat asparagus, I want it with salt, I don’t want it with butter, like just, it goes into this place of like, you’re supposed to know that I hate this. And so the fight that they have is about her not knowing what she wants from him, why she’s waiting around. She goes, I feel like an idiot waiting around for you. And then he is like, has pity on her. That whole argument, is so fabulous and so right. And so it just, it speaks to a kind of narcissistic person where you’re trying to figure, you’re trynna get into their life and because you want that and know you want that you feel pathetic. Okay, okay. You’re trying to fit into somebody else’s like utterly self-absorbed worldview. Love that.

 

Akilah Green Love that. I gotta put it on my list. I love some couples fighting.

 

Louis Virtel Oh God, it’s an amazing movie. When that’s people’s not favorite PTA movie, I don’t understand.

 

Akilah Green Okay, gotcha. You know who your people are. Yeah, let me just test. Gary and Brooke in The Breakup. So that’s Vince Vaughn and Jennifer Aniston. Yes. Which was like not, you’re giving me a face and a hand on a hill. And a hand on a hip.

 

Louis Virtel It’s a great Chicago movie, yes, yeah.

 

Akilah Green Um, it’s interesting because it’s not as wacky as like the word, like the word of the roses is heightened. Gary and Brooke seem like people I know having a real life like dissolution of a relationship in a way that I’ve seen it happen in people around me. So like they get together, they buy a condo together. He won’t grow up, won’t propose, won’t clean up dishes. She decides to leave, but they can’t leave the house because they both live in it. And to me that’s like a ripe place for conflict when people won’t move out. And so, you know, so she starts bringing guys home. He starts having strip poker parties. I just, to me, and then finally they have to give up the condo, but to me I remember watching that being like, that felt real and like some things that happen in life, so they’re on my list.

 

Louis Virtel Jennifer Aniston is like the Yale of making even the ordinary parts of a relationship telegenic. Like she can get through a really boring conversation and yet you want to be watching it. There’s something about her and she was at one point supposed to be a Saturday Night Live cast member and ended up turning it down to four friends. And you realize she’s just got the gift of making conversation interesting. She’s exactly what we’re talking about here. There’s some elevated and lived in just by sheer virtue of her saying.

 

Akilah Green There was an argument about you didn’t get enough lemons for this centerpiece. And I was like, yeah, why didn’t he?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. No, she is amazing, indeed. I know our viewers expect me to bring up Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf. I’m not going to get into it. My producer, Kennedy, is actually glowering at me like, don’t say those damn words at me. I will bring up another Mike Nichols movie. Have you ever seen the movie Carnal Knowledge?

 

Akilah Green I have not.

 

Louis Virtel With Jack Nicholson in the early 70s, after Easy Rider and after a supporting role in the Barbra Streisand musical, On a Clear Day You Can See Forever. Jack Nicholsson became the definitive actor of the 70s. And he’s establishing these dramatic turns that have some sensitivity in them or extra insensitivity. And in this movie, Carnal Knowledge, which is about him and his best friend played by Art Garfunkel, travails in romance. He ends up with Anne Margaret, who is this sort of like cultish, emotional woman. And they get into a fight where he is basically humiliating her. And she is a wreck. And you realize in that moment that Anne Margaret can really fucking act. She was nominated for an Oscar for that movie. But just watching the two of them, there’s something about every conversation in that movie that is just. I don’t know how else to put it but other than you want to be in it and it’s compelling and it is randomly very dark. And I feel like real conversation is that way, where you think it’s going one way and then you realize you’ve said something that triggers somebody else.

 

Akilah Green That’s how it goes.

 

Louis Virtel It’s a really fabulous movie.

 

Akilah Green Okay, it’s on my list.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, okay, what’s next?

 

Akilah Green This one is sillier, both Mr. And Mrs. Smith, Brad and Angelina. Oh, gosh.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, gosh. Well, also, you can’t be at a real life couple acting out some dynamic on the silver screen.

 

Akilah Green What I love about it, cause like nowhere in my movies is like real violence and like people are going to a story about abuse or whatever. These two are like CIA spies and they’re equally matched in terms of like their physical prowess. So they really have an actual shootout. They’re spies who married each other but don’t know that the other one is a spy and then somehow they get caught onto it so they think the other ones there to kill them. And so then they try to kill the other when first very silly, not the best plot, but they’re hot. They again They want to leave, nobody wants to give up the house. So they shoot this house up and down and they both survive and then they get back together, which is also very sweet.

 

Louis Virtel You know what’s interesting about that pairing and that movie is that you think of Angelina Jolie as a sort of classically charismatic movie star, and yet I don’t think she has been in very many classically-charismatic couples on screen. Sure. So this is really the only time you get a moment of her being like the kind of va-va-voom in a sort-of relationship-y way.

 

Akilah Green Which is interesting because I don’t know that she was charismatic in this couple as well, which to me, I think worked for the movie because it’s like they’re having some marital strife and perhaps growing apart or whatever. And I’m like, oh, I see why in this movie.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, right. Yeah. And I’m so sorry that actual marriage dissolved in the most horrible way. Oh my god. Team Angelina, of course. Of course. And by the way, we need her in another great movie again. She was in Maria, and then it was like, good attempt, we’ll get it next time. Okay, okay. Let’s go!

 

Akilah Green Okay, okay, what’s she up to these days, saving the world? I am not sure. Saving the world?

 

Louis Virtel I hope, yes. No, I’m sure she’s sitting at some sort of like electronic display of the globe and she’s just like pointing at various things and being like- And fixing things. Putting on the Carmen Sandiego hat and flying herself down, you know. I’m gonna bring up a movie that pertains to the late Robert Redford. Have you ever seen Ordinary People?

 

Akilah Green I have.

 

Louis Virtel I love this movie, and it’s a movie about living in the suburbs, which speaks to me. And Mary Tyler Moore and Donald Sutherland, they have a son who drowns, and its traumatizing to their other son, played by Timothy Hutton. This movie ends with Mary Tyler- Moore, who is a very stony mother, who has seemingly no reaction to what has happened, is sort of icing out everybody in her life but casually and acting like she’s fine. She and Donald Sutherland have a concluding argument. And she is so devastated by it, she ends up moving out of the house. What I didn’t know about this fight was it was originally in the fight, he is screaming at her. And what actually got into the movie is he just says it to her.

 

Akilah Green Okay.

 

Louis Virtel But she has the same reactions. So she’s acting like she’s been screamed at even though he is just talking to her. That’s cool. And I think that is so suburban. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, oh, you confronted me, you said something direct. I’m devastated. Sure.

 

Akilah Green Sure, but also like the houses are not that far apart, so we can’t really show out. Yes, yes, that’s what’s it. Yeah, there’s a cloistered feeling. Sure, sure, sure. Because the neighbors can hear this.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. And there’s a drab beige-ness to everything going on, even in the outfits. Though, God, do I love the heyday of beige. You know, when like every woman, like Faye Dunaway did not do a movie without wearing a beige pencil skirt.

 

Akilah Green Yep. Yep, yep, yep.

 

Louis Virtel Everything was tawny.

 

Akilah Green And nicely tailored. Yes, yes.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, yes. Yeah, constricting. Yes. All the time. Yes. Do you have any others you’d like to bring up?

 

Akilah Green Um, I’m going to do like an honorable mention to Frank and Marie Barone from Everybody Loves Raymond. Again, equally matched, which is what I like for. I don’t want anybody to be meaner to the other person. Um, they gave, like, I mean, how many seasons was that on? 10? Something like that? 100,000. Yes. They, every episode they’re at each other. It is old school 90s, like you’re crazy. Well, I had to be to be married to you, you know, that type of stuff, which I appreciate. I enjoyed that.

 

Louis Virtel I think you also just tapped into what we actually like about this particular, I’m going to call it a genre, which is two people who are equally matched.

 

Akilah Green Not that i don’t want to see anybody getting bullied i want people starting it back and forth to each other

 

Louis Virtel Right, and it’s like that’s what would happen in real life, right? You would never pick somebody or Never mind. I’m projecting. I don’t think you would pick somebody who wasn’t like your equal generally speaking Yeah, I know a lot of people would I just don’t want to see that. Yeah Anyway, those are some of our favorite confrontations in movies Please tell us yours. I could go on and on and literally this is what I like and in movies This is what i want in movies This is what I want in movies.

 

Akilah Green I will say that the original War of the Roses has my spot. The chandelier scene.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my gosh. And by the way, there’s a little bit of a shout out to that in this new movie and it’s just not the same.

 

Akilah Green You know, the final shot is him like bloody and tangled up on the floor and he reaches out to her and she still pushes his hand away. This is what I want.

 

Louis Virtel Ugh, we could just do a whole Kathleen Turner episode. In fact, we interviewed her once on this a long, long, time ago. Still have, and you can just hear the grid of those times. Love it, love it, loved it. Ones that I haven’t mentioned that we’ve talked about a million times, besides who was afraid of Virginia Woolf, Kramer versus Kramer, fences comes up a lot. Actually, I trust anything that was based off a play. I think this is why we do play.

 

Akilah Green Sure, sure sure sure.

 

Louis Virtel Did you see Purpose, which just came out, the Pulitzer winner? Oh my gosh, everybody confronting everybody and where are they doing it? On a big dinner table.

 

Akilah Green My favorite, I love a good dinner party fight.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, August Osage County, that kind of thing. Yes. Eat the fish. Yes, oh, eat the fish, bitch. When Julia is at her absolute meanest, I am soaring. Love, yes. Because you know, she can like, she’ll walk into a room and be like, I don’t know about all this. Like, she just dismisses. Yes. I love it.

 

Akilah Green I love that.

 

Louis Virtel We’ll be right back with our favorite segment of the episode, it’s Keep It. And we’re back with my favorite segment of the episode. It’s Keep It. Akilah, go off as they say.

 

Akilah Green Okay, let me just preface this by saying that I am missing, like, a fangirl gene. Like, I’m not a part of a fandom, I am not in the beehive or a hottie or a bar. I went to University of Texas and University of Michigan, so big football schools, not a sports person. And then, along comes Nicolandria from Love Island, which I’m embarrassed because I think I’m too old to watch this show. I watch this show because I see their kids go viral. I’m like, who are they? And I am on the ride. Wow. I’m in it. I’m embarrassed. I’m going to group chat with mutuals, some comedy writers where you just like keep up with their news. And so I just say that to say that like, my keep it is hating on Nicolandria because they’re just a cute little hot couple and everybody is mad at them. I mean, clearly they’re very popular, so not everybody, but. There’s a hate train coming at them every day. She’s dark skinned, they’re interracial, he’s too hot for her, they wish their other fan won. She just walked in her first fashion week, she’s 5’3″, she walked for Sergio Hudson. People are like, how did she get that? People are sending hate to them daily. And I’m like, they just bring people so much joy.

 

Louis Virtel Did you actually end up watching the show? I sure did. Okay, good. I watched the-

 

Akilah Green I watched the entire thing. I watched it from their kiss, which is in episode 21, all the way to the end of the show, then started off from the beginning to see what I had missed.

 

Louis Virtel Wow, it feels like you were even maybe just thinking about them during this episode and like waiting to get to this.

 

Akilah Green I don’t know what they’ve done to me, but what I’ll say, because I had to talk to myself like, what’s happening with you? Because this is not a way that I interact with them. I’ve bought things that they pitched on Instagram. I might have worn some pants to work the other day. I’m in it and I’m embarrassed by it, but I had talk to my myself and I just said, these times are terrible. There’s so much darkness going on. Who doesn’t want to root for a young couple to fall in love and make a lot of money? And so, people, my keep it is like… Don’t shit on them, just let them enjoy being in love and following their dreams and let people enjoy them.

 

Louis Virtel Do you think they will have a follow-up series?

 

Akilah Green I think probably. I don’t know if that’ll be good for them, but I think that none of those guys, those social media guys, I don’t think they can resist it. There was a spin-off or I guess a follow-up series from the season six show, which is called Beyond the Villa, which I also watch. I thought it was going to be a fun show, and all of them talked about how sad their lives have become since they’ve become social media influencers. It was a very dark show that I didn’t think, they had all moved to LA for the summer and are staying in apartments and everybody’s sad. So I was like, maybe We don’t need that from them.

 

Louis Virtel That too much reality. Well, it’s giving that Jennifer Coolidge speech. Be like, don’t think it’s all gonna be Primrose path from here.

 

Akilah Green But also call it that. Like, if you branded it like the Charlie Sheen documentary, I knew what I was getting into. This, I thought, I was like, oh, look at these young people having fun in LA. Not the case.

 

Louis Virtel Wow. Yeah. Oh my god. So that’s

 

Akilah Green So that’s my keep it.

 

Louis Virtel It does feel like they’ve changed you for good.

 

Akilah Green Yes, let them bring you joy if they don’t hush your mouth.

 

Louis Virtel Well, okay. I mean, first of all, I also want to say I went to a football school and didn’t go to a single football game. So we both are on the same level.

 

Akilah Green Yes, I think I’ve been to three in my life, yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my god, also you Michigan and Texas. I mean

 

Akilah Green Michigan and Texas. And I’m from Texas, so I went to like a big football high school as well.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my God, well, congrats for surviving, I guess. My keep it this week is to the fact that Robert Redford, movie legend, has passed away. And I can’t just walk into the street and talk to everybody about it because no one knows about him anymore. I just want to say, like, he is this rare case of somebody who is, in a way, the quintessential matinee idol. And he had the weird idea that men could be blonde. And we said, you’re right.

 

Akilah Green Right. It’s working.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. He appeared on the scene, he was immediately in a few movies with Jane Fonda. His first movie is a cameo in a movie she made called Tall Story, where Anthony Perkins is a basketball player. Come on, Queen. And then eventually he made some movies with Natalie Wood. He was in This Property is Condemned and Inside Daisy Clover. Before he really exploded as a star in the movie Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, which that year, Easy Rider, which I brought up also came out that was a sort of a rebellious movie that felt like gritty. This was the more mainstream version of that movie. And I feel like people really connected with the fact that he was this new, fresh-faced star who had as much charisma and power as Paul Newman, the established star in that movie, and from then on, Robert Redford refused to be bored making a movie. He’s like, it’s gonna be interesting. I’m gonna play people who are deeper or more self-absorbed or. Have more contemplative things going on than you expect from me. And when you look at his filmography, it’s so impressive. He really was part of what made the 70s the most experimental and fabulous time in films. I think his best movie is All the President’s Men, which I think we all saw in journalism class or whatever, eighth grade, wherever they make you see it. And by the way, I was just talking about this. Man, did we make Brown seem so awesome. Just wear a brown tie, brown pants, and go to work.

 

Akilah Green Sure, sure.

 

Louis Virtel A whole era devoted to just neutrals and topes, I love it. Otherwise though, he of course was founded Sundance. He wanted movies to be good. He was never satisfied with just the status quo. Even if he was in movies I did not like like out of Africa and I think that is Meryl’s worst nomination too. He is just an instrumental part of film history. An intellectual person who I think brought the best out of actors when he was a director. He directed Ordinary People and he directed one of my favorite performances of all time which is in a way the ultimate Robert Redford performance even though he did not give it. Ray Fiennes and Quiz Show. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen it.

 

Akilah Green I saw it.

 

Louis Virtel In the movie, he plays this son of a poet, but an academic himself who becomes a game show contestant. And he eventually, he’s a cheater on the game show. He becomes a television star who is this returning champion who keeps winning and keeps winning, but he’s been given the answers. And yet he is this also intellectual, really smart guy. So you’re seeing on his face the turmoil of being somebody who considered himself a smart member of the intelligentsia, being a complete fraud. And that is the ultimate type of Robert Redford role where there’s a conflict between the sheen of the outside with the turmoil of the inside. So I really recommend people go and check that out. 89 years old, couldn’t have lived a fuller life, and Sundance by the way rules.

 

Akilah Green I also love that he died unproblematic.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Oh my gosh. This is much like Paul Newman in a way.

 

Akilah Green Yes, I feel like a lot of his peers have had a turn in their later years where they’ve become mean and bitter and hateful. And so I’m grateful that like that’s not a part of his legacy.

 

Louis Virtel Totally. Also, somebody who was also very sexy on screen, too. I love him in The Way We Were with Barbara Streisand. For sure. Ooh, yes. All his movies with Jane Fonda. And by the way, I will end on that note. Jane Fond and Robert Redford made a bunch of movies together like Barefoot in the Park, The Electric Horseman. But later on, about, I would say nine years ago, 10 years ago they made a movie called Our Souls at Night, which is a romance among these two older people. And it’s just a fabulous little movie. Unpretentious, not trying to be an awards contender, really. But they are both really good in it. And Jane only got better as an actor, I think, even way later in her career, well after she won Oscars. And you can see the both of them have this earned camaraderie in the movie that, of course, goes back 50 years. So.

 

Akilah Green I’ll add it to my list.

 

Louis Virtel Please, please. Akilah, it has been fabulous having you here.

 

Akilah Green I had so much fun!

 

Louis Virtel Oh my god, where can people find you or look at your work or just admire what you are?

 

Akilah Green You know I have been so boring since they took fun Twitter away. Yeah, and I’m not I don’t post much on Instagram anymore I’m kind of boring so you can watch ghosts on CBS every Thursday night.

 

Louis Virtel With the fabulous Danielle Penick.

 

Akilah Green That’s right.

 

Louis Virtel And by the way, listen to that episode of Keep It if you want crazy Beyonce stories.

 

Akilah Green He’s great.

 

Louis Virtel She’s a fabulous person. That’s our show. We will see you next week on Keep It. Don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. You can also subscribe to Keep It on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review. Keep It is a Crooked media production. Our producer is Bill McGrath. Our associate producer is Kennedy Hill. And our executive producers are Louis Virtel, Ira Madison III, and Kendra James. Our digital team is Delon Villanueva, Claudia Sheng, and Rachel Gajewski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Jarek Centeno. Thank you to David Toles, Kyle Seglin, and Charlotte Landes for production support every week. Our head of production is Matt DeGroot. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.