Ira and Louis discuss Pope Francis’ death, Sinners’ turnout at the box office, the Time 100 list, Kristi Noem’s stolen bag, and the Academy’s new rules for Oscar voters. Tina Knowles joins Ira to discuss her memoir, Matriarch.

Subscribe to Keep It on YouTube to catch full episodes, exclusive content, and other community events. Find us there at YouTube.com/@KeepItPodcast

 

TRANSCRIPT

 

Ira Madison III [AD]

 

Ira Madison III And we are back for an all new Keep It. I’m Ira Madison the third.

 

Louis Virtel I’m frociaggine person, Louis Virtel. I forget the tense of frociaggine. Doesn’t it mean like F word hyphen RY, like gayness?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, faggy.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, but no, but that’s an adjective. I think it means it’s a state of being. But anyway, this is to say we’re bringing this up because the Pope died. And first of all, to be honest, I’m a little shocked how sad certain people I know are about the pope, but just everybody I know is a lapsed Catholic, but there’s still some, I guess he’s a way better pope than average, as one very funny tweet by George Severus said. He was pro-gay, but also pro-ga slurs, and doesn’t get more dimensional and fabulous than that.

 

Ira Madison III That sounds like every gay I know.

 

Louis Virtel That’s what I mean. He was one of us, if you will. And also, Francis, come on, one of the gayer names. Have you seen the Jessica Lange movie, Francis? It’s for the queens.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I haven’t.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, get on that.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, but I know Francis Scott Key. Oh yeah. Let me tell you something. He was always tickling the ivories.

 

Louis Virtel Down at Fort McHenry. He’s like, there’s a war going on, but I have got to write a song.

 

Ira Madison III One out, the Pope died in a very peculiar way, not peculiar, but I was just hanging out with people and someone said, oh, the pope’s dead, as it happens when people die. And I did not hear it, I guess. And 20 minutes later, I was looking at my phone and I was like, guys, the Pope died. And they were like, we’ve been talking about that for the past 20 minutes, what have you been doing? I was like, scrolling on TikTok.

 

Louis Virtel Oh wow, you were dissociating. Yeah, this happened in the middle of the night somewhere, so you were inevitably out being vampiric.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, yeah, it was a late night, it’s an evening. And the evening that the Pope died, I guess, was, this has been one of two jokes that everyone has been making online because humor online is usually just, let’s make one joke and then let’s just keep repeating it.

 

Louis Virtel Let’s pretend we didn’t hear it before, or let’s pretend there needs to be a new audience for this joke, and I’ll be the one to deliver it.

 

Ira Madison III Obviously is the fact that he had a visit from vice president of the United States, not my United States. JD Vance, the day before. And did JD Vans kill the Pope? Did the Pope shuffle off this mortal coil after visiting true evil? There’s been very variations of this. And I have to say, I think that the Pope, was probably already dead.

 

Louis Virtel You would think when he met him it was like a weekend at Bernie’s situation.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I think he was like JD Vance is on the calendar. He was like, girl, I’m gonna go. He’s like, just prop me up, let him talk. And you know JD Vance, you know the Trump, that like these people, they could walk into a room with a dead body, have one of their annoying conversations with them. And then just leave.

 

Louis Virtel And then tell you that the conversation went swimmingly. That’s like their whole MO. I think it’s a shame that the pope has to meet with anybody named JD, let alone that JD. So I was like doubly upset when I found out that’s how we went.

 

Ira Madison III Also, why are you meeting with the pope?

 

Louis Virtel I don’t think he has anything to learn from the pope and I don’ think the pope has anything to learn from him. So it was giving a stalemate.

 

Ira Madison III Also, if he’s on the verge of death here, obviously, we saw Conclavee, which by the way, is the other joke that everyone keeps making. Someone said, this is like a real life Conclave. And I wanted to say, Conclave was just a movie depicting something that happens in real life.

 

Louis Virtel Right, the opposite. The art was inspired by the life, and then it came back to life.

 

Ira Madison III Conclave wasn’t a fictional movie. I mean, it was fiction, but it was, it’s a thing that happens when you select the actual pope when they die.

 

Louis Virtel I was pleased not to see too many jokes in the very 2005 Pope John Paul II mold of he’s a fancy man in a dress. I think we’ve moved past that. I think when Conclave comes up, we still talk about how they are dressed fabulously, but it’s not quite, you know, lip sync for your life, the Pope’s or whatever the joke was at the time.

 

Ira Madison III Well Pope Francis wasn’t very ornate.

 

Louis Virtel Which by the way, would be my whole thing if I were the Pope. I would be named Pope Ornasia.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, now I spent the immediate moments after finding out the Pope died to do a Google search because I couldn’t remember if the Pope had an actual beef with Nicki Minaj after her Roman holiday performance at the Grammys.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, right, yeah. Probably not.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, remember when she brought a pope to the red carpet and then did that whole exorcist thing, even though the pope was sort of dressed like a bishop. In my brain, I was remembering the Catholic Church or even the Vatican making a statement about it. And I don’t know why I had this whole. Yeah, a narrative played out. Yeah, narrative played. What’s that called again?

 

Louis Virtel The Mandela effect or whatever.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, I don’t know why Mandela affected the Vatican beefing with Nicki Minaj. More likely the Vatican would beef with Azalea Banks than Nicki MinaJ. But yeah, in my mind, the Vatican had issued some sort of statement and it was so sad to learn that it never happened.

 

Louis Virtel The most important thing about the Pope is that once upon a time it was their job to get into fights with people like Madonna. You know, Madonna would have a tour and there would be a section of it where she would be masturbating on stage or something and there’d be, you know, a hundred thousand crucifixes around. And then somebody there at the Pope’s, you, know, office has a typewriter and he’s like, well, I’ve got to write something today. And so he writes something in response to that. And in fact, the Immaculate Collection is dedicated to the Pope. If you read the liner note, she goes, my divine inspiration, which I believe is a bit cheeky. Because as you know, the Immaculate Collection is a pun on the Immakulate Conception. So a lot of Catholicism going on there. I thought she wrote that for Divine. Yeah, I, mysteriously no. I think Divine was gone by that time. Yeah. Do you know what Madonna’s second greatest hits was supposed to be called before she just went with GHV2, which is Greatest Hits Volume 2? It’s such a good title and I can’t believe they got rid of it. And it’s also religiously themed. What was it? The Second Coming. Oh my god, come on Madonna. That’s why we’re here for nasty puns

 

Ira Madison III That was a little too spicy for the mid-2000s, I guess.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, and maybe too spicy for those songs too, you know, which was very ray of light and bedtime stories, kind of calming energy. She wasn’t that sexy in that era, although… Yeah, provocative.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I’ve come to frozen many times

 

Louis Virtel Oh, please. Why am I not whirling in the desert right now dressed in goth materials? Makes no sense.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, the Pope’s death has been making me sort of revisit, I guess our high school college era where the last Pope died. I was in Jesuit school at the time. And so there was obviously a lot of chatter about the smoke and you remember all the late night jokes about selecting a new Pope. And I guess we’re going into that again. I’m sure the views and conclave are going to uptick this week.

 

Louis Virtel Right that does feel like a movie that everybody ended up seeing from Oscar season in an old-school way Like everybody did end up seeing that movie I am a little blown away that there is a pope candidate right now whose last name is pizza Bala Pizza ba la which sounds like like an 11 year old who beats your ass in fortnight

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, it sounds like a movie written by Nick Vallelaga who wrote Green Book, if you recall. It sounds like the follow-up to that movie that never came out that was called That’s Amore.

 

Louis Virtel Which starred Katherine Heigl. Maybe a snuff film, maybe she’s like, end me here. I don’t know. What I’m thinking about.

 

Ira Madison III Who the next pope might be. And I have a controversial thing to say. Go ahead. People are always doing this weird representation thing with these white institutions, especially these institutions of colonialist history. There are people being like, the next pope should be black, the next Pope should be Asian, and I kind of don’t think so. I don’t really think we need a black pope for, quote unquote, progress in the world. I don’ know, it’s just like there are quotes like I have a black Pope would revive the Christian faith in Africa and change people’s views of Africa by showing them an African can hold this office. None of that shit ever happens. No. I’m sorry, it just like, none of it ever happens, it’s always stuff we talk about. With the presidency or these other things. And it’s always like, this person’s going to change people’s views. And I just think that way people, we’re going to talk about the movie centers this week. I think that some things who stayed the same throughout all of history.

 

Louis Virtel The white people were up to their tricks in that movie. I don’t know if you caught that. That’s what they do. Also this week, Ira has a solo interview with goddess Tina Knowles. She’s the reason I’m wearing my House of Darion jeans today. You can’t see them, but I am busting the fuck out of them.

 

Ira Madison III You’re looking bootylicious today.

 

Louis Virtel If you will, yes, OED entry bootie.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, I chat with Tina Knowles about her new memoir, Matriarch, which gets into her upbringing. It gets into Solange and Beyonce’s upbringing, Kelly Rowland’s upbringing. It’s a pretty sprawling book, and I think it sort of connects all the pieces from the information that’s been doled out to us from the Knowles family for decades. You know, you always… See interviews, well, when we used to get interviews with Beyonce, and then you hear about Uncle Johnny, or you hear these other family members that are used to name them, like Sir Davis, et cetera. And it was nice to see all of the pieces.

 

Louis Virtel Is tied together. Oh, all right. So it’s a very satisfying glimpse into the succession like world of the Knowles family.

 

Ira Madison III It opens with a family tree. There’s a huge Knolls family tree at the beginning of the book. And honestly, I love a book that opens up with a familiar tree. Okay, that is Dostoevsky vibes.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right, or like the thorn birds or something. And then also we get into the Time 100, which has a lot of puzzling entries on it. And one particularly amazing entry, do you know who I’m talking about? Oh. Danielle Deadwiler is on the Time100. Yeah, it’s not us though. No, and we keep asking, and I want to say politely.

 

Ira Madison III So that’s what we’re going to get into this week. And we will be right back with all of the keep it you’ve been begging for.

 

[AD]

 

Ira Madison III Director Ryan Coogler and Michael B. Jordan have teamed up once again for Sinners, a period horror film filled with twins, vampires, and just the right amount of racism. So, Louis, let’s sink our teeth into it, shall we? And it should go without warning, this conversation has spoilers for the film Sinners. First things first about this film, shout out to Ben Stiller for lighting Variety’s ass up for their article about. Sitters, which made near $55 million this weekend. And it was the biggest debut for an original film since Jordan Peele’s Us, which opened to 71 million in 2019. Two original horror films from Black creators, which should be exciting, especially in a world where we’re getting nothing but remakes and sequels and things based on quote unquote IP. But of course… Variety’s headline was just that, well, we don’t know if it’s going to recoup its budget. And Ben Stiller tweeted at them, in what universe does a $60 million opening for an original studio movie warrant this headline?

 

Louis Virtel Slay. Loved him since Heavyweights where he had a really grisly Tom Cruise energy if you haven’t seen that movie recently.

 

Ira Madison III You know what Heavyweighs was almost my pick for comedy last week when we did our sports movie draft.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah, that is very kind of technically a sports movie, like they play sports in it. Yeah. Every once in a while. I mostly remember that there’s a big like trampoline thing in the water they all bounce off of and I have to say I laughed. But no, okay, about this movie, first of all, I can’t believe I have be like generate excitement around the very basic human communication idea that people- heard this movie was good, and then they all went and saw it and now seem to be telling their friends and it’s now getting popular again. This is how movies should work. They spent a lot of money making it really good and now we’re all going to go see the really good thing that doesn’t really even feel like any other movie. I feel bad for people listening to this who don’t want spoilers because I went in not knowing a thing about it and I was actually, I think it’s even If you go in knowing, you don’t even think it’s gonna be horror, really, when you start watching the movie, you know? There’s a foreboding energy to what’s happening. It’s in the 1930s, it’s in South, like it opens with a scene where a character is like slashed up and he goes to church and he’s called the sinner and then it flashes back. We figure out what happens to him, but you don’ necessarily know that it’s going to be a vampiric battle royale, which is what it ends up being. The thing I really loved about this movie was that it would just twist genres on a dime, but it was very organic, like it starts as this, you know, drama about music and these people putting together this juke joint that, you know, seems like it’s just going to be good times and then slowly you realize that these people on the outskirts who want in and we don’t know why they want it and then that’s when the horror movie ensues, but. Up until that point, it is purely an acting movie, and the actors in this movie are so good. You have Michael B. Jordan playing a dual role, and my God, do I love the old school Tomfoolery of a dual roll. Peter Sellers, baby, where you at? Mr. Lee Marvin and Capilou, come back to us.

 

Ira Madison III I agree that knowing very little about this movie is of a benefit to watching it. I saw it with my friend Gino this weekend, and during the movie, he leaned over to me and he said, this is a vampire movie. And I think a lot of people did not realize that. I knew from the trades when this was coming out that Ryan Coogler was working on a twist on a vampire move, and I’d sort of forgotten about it, mostly because when the initial trailer. Came out for Sinners. They do a good job of hiding that it’s a vampire movie. You just know it’s spooky, you know? And I also managed to miss in the promos for it that Michael B. Jordan was going to be playing twins.

 

Louis Virtel Right. And I like how he plays them both, too. You get Michael B. Jordan playing slick characters, which there’s something about slickness. Even when you know it, you know, like a greasy salesman, they still have a, you know, here’s an old word, swagger about them. And it is very sexy, namely when And they are very well dressed as they both are in this movie.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, and to go back to what you said about word of mouth, I saw the movie last night as we were planning to see it, to discuss it this week. But all throughout the weekend, I kept running into people who were either asking if you’d see Sinners or saying that they were going to go see Sinner’s and I have friends who were planning to see this week and that’s just so exciting when that happens for a movie.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. And by the way, this is the time of year when I’m not watching movies. And in fact, have almost made the decision not to watch them. Like I know we’re getting repetitive type movies or movies based on IP or the same superhero movie again and again. And yet it did not take much for me to realize, oh, I have to see this. So it’s like even just like some excitement, I think can really generate people to get up like a cynical person like me who just wants to like watch the old Criterion Channel all the time. Like, I will go to the theater. If you can generate actual excitement around a new idea. And by the way, from beginning to end, this movie is new ideas. I think the best thing I can say about this movie is it’s never contrived.

 

Ira Madison III The movie is so many big swings that feel in the world that Ryan Coogler has been playing in. He’s always had films with black leads and films that discuss racism and sort of cultural appropriation. I think going back to Black Panther, for instance, which was so much smarter than the average Marvel movie.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, and so much more like dramatic heft than the average superhero movie too.

 

Ira Madison III Even starting with that scene in the beginning where Michael B. Jordan is playing Killmonger and he’s at the National Museum in London and he speaking about how all of the pieces in the museum were sort of stolen from other cultures. I think we see a through line from that to this movie, which besides being about vampires and you know, it uses vampires sucking your blood and taking over your soul and your body as a metaphor. For cultural appropriation and just sort of like white people stealing music, not just from black people either, just stealing music from other cultures in general. There is a amazing sequence in this movie, which by the way, this movie is a stealth musical.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. No, I think you come away from this movie thinking the best thing about it was the music, even though there’s no moment where it’s just, we’re fully watching a performer sing a song from beginning to end.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, it sat in the juke joint. So it’s not a musical in the sense of it’s wicked. It’s a musical, in the since that there are amazing musical numbers in it. And there’s one in particular that I don’t want to ruin it for people, but it just dives into the history of music from cultures before the 1930s and how it thrusts into culture in the present. And I think the entire theater was in awe.

 

Louis Virtel It’s this surreal moment where you see performers from all different eras sort of appear, even though this takes place in the 1930s. So you’re surprised to see whatever, you know, break dancers or whoever appears. Can I say about that sequence? I do think it was brilliantly directed. The actual dancing to me felt a little like an emotional so you think you can dance number, where just like too many performers. Too much thrusting around. I don’t know. I thought it looked good and yet the dancing, it was like very heavy handed to me also.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, well, it is a mainstream blockbuster. And sometimes you got to hand it to the audience.

 

Louis Virtel True, that’s the part where you’re like, audience, this is what this is about. We’re at a juke joint where the originality of black people and non-white people in America is getting a place to thrive.

 

Ira Madison III Let’s just say I had a lot of conversations with people after Black Bag where they were like, what is this movie about?

 

Louis Virtel Right. Yeah, I underestimate that. You know, can’t get too smart. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it often you need messages explicitly told to people. Also, I will say in this movie, I don’t remember the last time I saw Haley Steinfeld act. She was really good in this move Edge of Seventeen a few years ago, which is one of the few teen movies I’ve seen that really brilliantly explains how teenagers can be mature beyond their years and immature beyond their So if you haven’t seen that, it’s great and obviously she is an Oscar nominee for her teenage performance in True Grit. She in this movie plays an ex of one of the Michael B. Jordan characters and she has an accent in this move that I did not anticipate. It’s like pretty good. And then later, of course, spoiler, she gets bitten by one of The Vampire People and becomes sort of a prime source of the violence inside this juke joint. The way this woman says And we’re going to get every last one of ya! The grit was too true. I did not want to see that. That was scary.

 

Ira Madison III She did a great job at playing Human and Vampire, which is sort of the fun of this. It’s not just Michael B. Jordan playing dual roles. Everyone gets to play dual roles in a sense. And her turn into Vampire was, she becomes so much sexier, so much nastier, so much ballsier. I need to see more Hailey Seinfeld on screen.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, it was sort of like a no-Dana-only-Zool moment, if you’re familiar with the Ghostbusters canon. Yes, she’s really good at it. You know who’s fucking awesome in this movie? Delroy Lindo, Keep It, visitor, who is fabulous anyway. He was so good in The Five Bloods a few years ago. I mean, he’s been in so many movies. He’s in Malcolm X, whatever. He, in this move, gets so many laughs, and you forget after the movie that there is a lot of just comedy in it, too. And it’s namely in his character. I love how he played it in this movie.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, the movie is funny too. The movie’s funny, the move is quiet and emotional in parts. I think everyone really turns out amazing performances. Jamie Lawson I think is really good as Pearlene. She’s sexy too. She has a great musical number where she sings and I think that Lee Joon Lee. Is fantastic too, as Grace, she’s the Chinese wife of a general store owner, and I just loved her and her husband in the film. I thought that all the performances in this movie were really damn good.

 

Louis Virtel You know what, actually, the flow of the movie reminded me a little bit of Parasite in that it starts as one kind of movie and then kind of morphs into a second genre and by the third, it really reveals itself to be, Parasites isn’t really horror, but there’s like a very violent climax and there’s a very, very violent climax to this movie too. And I would say I would grade them critically the same way, which is, when this movie starts out and it’s just acting and we’re in the 1930s and it has this sort of, paper moon energy of like grifting and through the depression. I love that part of the movie because it’s a pure acting experience. You get Michael B Jordan just acting his ass off. That part’s an A plus. The second part of the movie when we’re at the juke joint and then you realize something is afoot, something is wrong, I also give that an A Plus. By the time we get to the actual horror, like the climactic battle, then it became a little expected to me. And by that point, the themes of the movie are already so readily apparent. That the actual climactic fight feels almost perfunctory, like just an obligatory end to the movie, I would give that part a B plus. So for me, ultimately, it’s like an A minus movie.

 

Ira Madison III What I did love about the final battle sequence, though, is it turns on its head what you would, I guess, expect from a horror movie where people are battling vampires. I think that a lot of the characters are so well drawn in the first two thirds of the film where all of their actions are believable in the last third, you know? It’s not just characters being noble to be noble. You really get a sense of who these characters are. You get a sense of… The family that they’re worried about back in the town. Yeah, I just really love the characters in this film. And obviously it’s because two thirds of the film is drama before it really jumps into just nasty bloody horror in the end. But it reminds me of great horror movies like Halloween, The Exorcist, Scream, A Nightmare on Elm Street, you know, where you- get to know characters who feel fresh and original and like people you actually want to see succeed. People you actually emotionally care for by the time you get to the end of the film.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, also, so part of this group of white people that sort of infiltrates the juke joint, they play music themselves. And it’s interesting, they play at one point, there’s like a fiddle and it’s kind of folky or reminds you of like the Carter family from the 30s, maybe. And it’ funny, like the people listening, the people in the jukey joint say, oh, this sounds kind of good. Like they’re almost kind of fooled by it. I like how they worm their way in. That’s sort of an interesting part of the movie, too. But by the way, this is a movie about genre twisting. Part of what happens with this Irish family is that one of them starts to Irish dance. Baby, if I see Irish dance, I know it’s a horror movie. That shit is haunted.

 

Ira Madison III Ha ha ha ha!

 

Louis Virtel Irish dance is the original Suspiria, period.

 

Ira Madison III Part of it, though, is that’s not even really their dancing. Two of the people who show up are members of the Klan, and I’m not sure if they’re actually Irish or whatever, but I think you get a lot from whatever demon is inside of them. It’s the devil, you’re coming through the vampires, et cetera, and you’re finding out that they just seem to have taken music from. White cultures of the past. They’ve gotten this Irish dancing from, maybe they got it over there in Ireland and maybe they’ve crossed over, et cetera, and now they’re trying to get to the other cultures. And what I love about this hilarious sequence in the movie is you get these Native Americans who are hunting the vampires in the beginning of the movie, right? And then it’s sundown and basically they’re like, bye. And then you do not see them the rest of the movie. Yeah, rather we tried. Yeah, they’re like, we’ve done enough. I think that’s great. And one thing that’s very interesting about this movie too is there’s been some anger online about the final scene of the movie just because it happens during and after the credits.

 

Louis Virtel I did not see this. I left before the end credits. I’m sorry, religiously, I have to get going. I am so sorry. I’m thinking about my validation in the parking garage. If you’ve been to the Grove, you know it is hell.

 

Ira Madison III There’s a final scene in the movie, which I think is beautiful. And in a way, I can see both sides of it. One, I hate this Marvel brain run where you have to sit till the end of a credit sequence to find out something else that’s happening in a movie. And mostly they used to be interesting in Marvel movies and now they’re just sort of, oh my God, look at this celebrity we got for a cameo. Or here’s a joke that could have actually just been in the move, you know? This was an actual important scene for the ending of the movie. And I don’t know, maybe Ryan Coogler’s just trying to train people to respect the credits and respect watching it the same way that we would on Broadway, you know? Like you sit and watch the final bow in musicals. Some people get up and leave, but other people sit and listen to the orchestra finish playing, you now? And I think that’s interesting in a way to maybe be trying to train audiences to do, if only because Ryan Coogler is just such a lover of film. I don’t know if you saw that 10-minute video he did where he explained the different formats that you could watch sinners in, but I thought that was incredibly cool. He talks about filming in 35 millimeter, talks about filling for IMAX. He shows you like, the different kinds of film, like even eight millimeter, that they all are made from the same thing, but they’re a little bit wider. And he explains the ratios in which films are shot and which other directors used.

 

Louis Virtel What happened at the end of this fucking movie? It sounds like I missed something.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, well, at the end of the movie, you basically, more spoilers for people, if you did not see the end, what happens is, you know when Michael B. Jordan is about to kill his brother and you don’t see it happen, and then he goes and saves Sammy so that he can go off and create music. You find out that basically, he made a deal with his brother.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, okay.

 

Ira Madison III To let Sammy, he convinced him to let Samy live and continue to create music and better music, et cetera. And vampire Michael B. Jordan shows up at the end of the movie and he’s watching him play in 1992. And you think there’s a moment where he’s gonna turn him into a vampire, but he actually just embraces him.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah, because during the beginning of the credits, you see Buddy Guy playing music in like 1992. And I just thought, oh, that’s cool that he’s there, like Chicago blues legend, you know, they had a real link to the past. So I thought that was just how the movie was ending.

 

Ira Madison III No, it’s him in the future.

 

Louis Virtel Oh.

 

Ira Madison III Buddy plays him in the future.

 

Louis Virtel Uh-oh, why am I so dumb? Okay, I’m mad at them though. Don’t pretend like I’m supposed to know how to interact with this credit sequence, like I have to sit around, whatever.

 

Ira Madison III But the beauty of this movie, too, is that I think it’s a great length for a movie like this. I think that at no point was I bored with this movie and I can’t wait to see it again, to be honest.

 

Louis Virtel I would like to see it again because I think there are details you can gloss over, especially when you’re just swept up in the genre specific fun of the movie.

 

Ira Madison III It’s also such a sexy movie, too.

 

Louis Virtel Oh quite.

 

Ira Madison III I want to mention this scene between Michael B. Jordan and Wunmi Mosaku, who is a Nigerian-British actress who plays Annie in the film, who had a formal relationship with one of the other brothers, Michael B Jordan plays. She is phenomenal.

 

Louis Virtel I really did enjoy her in the movie. She is a real find and that scene, it’s very sensual. Also, she’s just, and then as the movie goes on, she becomes one of the vampire experts. Like she’s like, I know what we can do and what we can’t do with these people. And she’s very commanding and authoritative during those moments too. That’s a real breakout performance.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, also, I really appreciate the fact that she is discussing the spiritual world, that, you know, discussing, like, the hates is like a word for what she calls them initially. But then, when you get closer to the end of the movie, she really is just like, oh no, this is vampires. Like, I thought we were gonna do one of that weird genre things where we’re not acknowledging what it is that’s in the movie. Like, hate when people do that.

 

Louis Virtel Oh yeah.

 

Ira Madison III It’s a zombie movie, but we can’t say zombies.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right, exactly, yeah. Look it, they bit. Look, we need a wooden stake. Look, We need garlic, yeah

 

Ira Madison III Right, because everyone would know what a fucking vampire is in 1930.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Yeah. Oh, no. Yeah, Nosferatu was already queen by that time.

 

Ira Madison III And another thing I want to say about this movie lastly is a lot of people have compared this to other movies and obviously there’s a lot of traces of John Carpenter in this. Ryan Coogler is obviously, he’s a film student first and foremost. So he’s student of every genre that he works in. This would comparisons of this film to Robert Rodriguez’s From Dusk Till Dawn and a lot of the commentary online from SnottyFilm. People is, this movie’s a lot like From Dusk Till Dawn, except it’s good. Let me tell you something, bitch. That movie is fantastic.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, there are people don’t like that movie. I thought that’s why we cared about Robert Rodriguez.

 

Ira Madison III Right.

 

Louis Virtel It wasn’t the spy kids movies, girl.

 

Ira Madison III It better be the faculty, if anything.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, sure, yeah.

 

Ira Madison III But discovering in 2025 that people have this secret hatred for From Dusk Till Dawn feels annoying and contrarian.

 

Louis Virtel And we do contrarianism so well here. So if you’re going to- We do. If you’re gonna appropriate our art, which by the way is a theme of this movie, you better do it well.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, that movie is so funny and sexy and Salma Hayek’s great in it. And George Clooney’s funnier than he is in most movies in this film.

 

Louis Virtel He needs to be in more funny movies. Why do we have to always believe him as gravitas guy? Can’t he just be hilarious sometimes?

 

Ira Madison III Well, I’m laughing lookin’ at his hair dye in Good Night and Good Luck.

 

Louis Virtel By the way, all those fucking plays are not getting good. We’re gonna talk about this in a couple of weeks. Those plays are getting good reviews. I’m about to see Sarah Snook in a couple weeks in picture of Dorian Gray. Can’t wait for that.

 

Ira Madison III A lot of these plays aren’t getting good reviews and some of them won’t be getting good reviews from me.

 

Ira Madison III [AD]

 

Ira Madison III I was truly excited when I heard that this guest was going to be joining us this week. She is the visionary behind House of Dereon, the storied costume designer behind Destiny’s Child, Beyonce, countless films, the vice chairwoman of Cecred Hair Care, and, according to Billboard, the Mother of the Year. We all know her daughters, but now she’s sharing her own story in her memoir, Matriarch. Out now. Please welcome to Keep It, Mama Tina Knowles.

 

Tina Knowles Thank you. That was such a nice introduction.

 

Ira Madison III Thank you, it is honestly an honor to be able to talk with you today, especially after reading this fantastic memoir of yours. There’s a lot of heavy things that we can get into in the memoir, but first I just want to talk about the process of remembering your life and just getting it onto the page, getting it out into a story that just It’s so comforting to read. One thing I really love is that I was making a Spotify playlist as I was reading because I love how you’re just remembering specific. songs that you were listening to with your family. You know, you’re listening to Sade, when you have Beyoncé as a kid, you’ve got the Chantels in there, Jackie Wilson, Archie Bells, the Isley Brothers. Is music just always been just a big part of your life? And how did you recall these musical moments? Or have they stayed with you the entire time?

 

Tina Knowles A lot of them stayed with me, and a lot of them, I just researched songs from that time, and then it would just hit me. But definitely, you know, the childhood ones are a little tougher, but when I was a teenager, you know my life has just been filled with music. I had older siblings, and they played music all the time. It was just always a part of our family life. And so. Um, the later years and teenagers, I can remember every one of those. I was in a singing group, so I just lived in music. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III It was such a joy to read, too, about the singing group that you were in, even hearing that your own mom and your dad were singing before you were born, and you hadn’t really known about it. I guess, how important has it been for you to keep music in the family, and how beautiful has it has been for Beyonce and Solange to be able to take that gift that’s been in your family for so long and, you know, take it into the stratosphere.

 

Tina Knowles You know, it’s obviously so rewarding because just to, you know, I didn’t find out until I was almost, you know I was a teenager that my parents sang. I would hear my mom humming and you know she would sing little things to me, but to know that they were, that was in their blood. I was just so happy because I wondered where it came from. I knew it came from, you know, from the time that I was pregnant. My ex-husband would sing to my stomach, like we played jazz and music was so soothing. It’s been at every important moment of my life. Music has been at the births, it’s been in the deaths, because in my family, we, you know it’s a Creole family, so after the burial, we go somewhere and we party. And some people find that kind of strange. Even for me sometimes it was difficult, you know, when my mom passed away because I remember telling my dad, y’all got all this music playing and people are dancing and they’re drinking and I didn’t feel like celebrating. And my dad said, that is our tradition. That is how we heal. And so it’s just subliminally and just obviously been such a part of my life. And it makes, music makes everything better.

 

Ira Madison III One thing I’ve loved beyond the music too, is the way that you talk about your family history and how it all just seems to come together and make sense as a fan of everything that I’ve seen. I was a fan Destiny’s Child. I was at the TRL tour and the Survivor tour. And I worked at it as a high schooler in Milwaukee at Summerfest and then seeing Beyonce and then Uncle Johnny mentioned on Renaissance, you’re always getting bits and pieces of family history from Beyonce as she’s doling them out to us. And then to read Matriarch, which opens up with a wonderful family tree. Of everyone, how has it been for you to finally tell your family’s story for fans who have learned bits and pieces for years?

 

Tina Knowles You know, that’s interesting because I was reading the comments on something and they said, wow, that’s  on the song Levi’s jeans, they were like, that who Celestine is, because they don’t know who Celestine is. They think that it’s just, you know, a word on a song. But what I can say is that everything that we’ve done has been very, very intentional. And just going back in the memories of Parkwood, you know, which is Beyonce’s company. That was our street. Kirby. I mean, just all of the streets and all of things that are history of our lives, everything has been intentional. And some things that aren’t even intentional were intentional. Because I recently learned, like maybe about a month ago, that my great- grandmother on my dad’s side, who I don’t know my dad people that well. I don’ know their history as well as I do my mom’s side. And I thought I was looking for my great grandmother’s name on my dad’s and I looked at ancestry thing and it said Louise Solange Rumellard, and I was like, this is somebody trying to connect Solange’s name to my history.

 

Ira Madison III Mm-hmm

 

Tina Knowles All the research of the guy that helped me with the book that did all the researching and he, Kevin, and he hits me back and he says, Ms. Tina, I’ve already found, not only is your great-grandmother’s name Solange, your great, great- grandmother’s name is Solange.

 

Ira Madison III Wow.

 

Tina Knowles Great-great-grandmother’s name has Solange. It was just, I had no idea. I got Solange’s name out of a baby name book that I got in Paris. But that’s the ancestors, they were talking to me. Out of 300 names in a book, I picked Solange, so even when it wasn’t intentional that I was connecting her to my heritage, I was doing it without even knowing. Another thing I found out, in doing T.S. Madison’s podcast is that the day that Renaissance album came out was the day that Johnny died. And I got so emotional about that because that was just Johnny, you know, it was his spirit talking to us. So in my family, there are a lot of things that are obviously the reason, but there lot of things that I just think we’re connected. You know?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I mean Renaissance, you know is such a beautiful album came out on my birthday actually. So yeah, that’s important to me.

 

Tina Knowles It came out on your birthday? And that would be July 29th?

 

Ira Madison III It came out well July 28th, it came out the evening for me when I was in LA, like it dropped in that evening and so it was like very important to me, it was a beautiful gift.

 

Tina Knowles I’m sure it was, that was a connection. But that’s the day that Johnny passed away and I didn’t know it until she brought that up to me.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. The stories about Johnny, the stories about you going to sessions with him and then asking a classmate and then getting to take him to a gay club, too. It was really beautiful. And I think one thing I really enjoyed learning was just, you know, Beyoncé’s music has meant so much to her queer fan base. And it’s Beautiful to learn the backstory of, you’ve just sort of been entrenched in that since you were young, you know, it reminds me of my grandmother’s brother, Bill. You know, he passed away in the 90s when I was young, before I had come out, you now? I was remembering a lot of the things in your book about just the way you described Johnny, because family members would just always be like, you remind me of your uncle Bill, you no? And that way that people let you know that they’re comfortable with you, that they know where you’re going in life. How rewarding has it been to be able to tell Johnny’s story, to let people know that he was behind some of these early on Destiny’s Child looks too.

 

Tina Knowles That has been one of the best parts, because Johnny is an unsung hero. I mean, he was in my family. And he used to always say, Mary, I’m going to be famous. And I would say, okay, Johnny. You know? And who would have thought that so many years after his death that he would actually be famous? It gives me chills just thinking about it and the fact that you know, he had no idea when he was playing that house music with my kids and dancing with them and turning them on to that genre of music that this would happen one day. You know? So it is glorious for me, really.

 

Ira Madison III I brought up my grandmother just a moment ago, and she had breast cancer during COVID. Thankfully, she’s in remission now and still with us. Reading about you discovering that you had breast cancer last year in February, how was dealing with that moment? How was being able to write about it in the book? You talk about how it wasn’t the original ending you had for it. But luckily you went through this journey and came out on the other end, and then you were able to put it in the book and it feels like such a beautiful epilogue to Matriarch.

 

Tina Knowles Oh, thank you. Yeah, it wasn’t the original ending. It was ending with me at the beach. And I just thought it was really important to talk about how I almost messed up because in 2022, I was supposed to go in for a mammogram and COVID and my appointment was canceled and how I didn’t I always thought that I had had the mammogram because, you know, you went through COVID for so long. It was supposed to be short, but it turned into a very long haul. And when we came back from COVID, I just always thought, oh, I have my mammogram. And when I went in for this mammogram, that’s when I found out, oh, in 2022, you thought you had your test, but you did not. So what came to me is that I could have had zero stage cancer. But because I missed that mammogram, I had stage one, which was still, thank God, early enough so that I’m cancer-free now. Think about how you can get so busy and so wrapped up in everybody else’s life and everything that you have going on and miss your appointments and not make yourself a priority in terms of health. And so I thought that that was good to put out to people. And also just, you know, me even having a breast reduction and having the guts to that at 70 years old was, I thought, something that could give people. Because I always wanted to do it and I just never had the courage to do it. And I just thought that that might give people a little boost, you know, about, it’s never too late to do what you, not, not I’m not pushing plastic surgery, so I don’t want people to say that, but it’s something that I dreamed about doing and I got to do and I’m very happy that I did it.

 

Ira Madison III There’s just this beautiful reflection of the black experience in America, too, in writing about this because I feel like you tie so many threads in the book of different medical moments that your family has gone through. Even one of Johnny’s ex-partners, Peanut, who passed away and like his aunt accusing him of having AIDS immediately. And then there’s doctors who don’t believe ailments that your family has. And then even thinking of when Beyonce shared with us what she had gone through. How important has it been for you to also just share these things that have happened to your family, but also to let people know that this is what happens to black families in general.

 

Tina Knowles I think in the healthcare, you know, we are the last, and we are not expected to advocate for ourselves. We’re not expected ask for a different doctor. That was the other reason why I did it is because, you know, I had a doctor that I wasn’t happy with, but, you know, and thank God I have the means to pick, you know, pick another doctor. But even at the hospital that I was dealing with, you They’re a great hospital, but I’m going to ask questions, and when I ask questions and they weren’t received properly, then I ask for another doctor. And you have the right to do that, and I want people to know that, that they have to advocate, especially when you’re a minority. You have to advocate for yourself medically. You would think by now you don’t have to, but you do. Because we are put last, and the research isn’t done on black people. There’s no research. We’re the last to get the research, and women are the last to get to research, so you have to be an advocate for yourself in healthcare. A lot of things happened to me when I was younger, you know, and I watched us go into the hospital, and I don’t think it was just a black thing, I think it a poor thing. When you’re poor too, you’re the the last. So you’re last to be called in the waiting room. You know, it just is a fact.

 

Ira Madison III Talking about advocating for yourself too, there’s a beautiful moment in the book when learning sewing was helpful for Johnny because he was gay, but also like a way for people to enjoy being around him and not bully him, but you also talked about yourself. Learning to sew, doing hair, et cetera, was you, you know, trying to almost barter with people to get them to like you to make yourself feel accepted. At what point I feel like in your life did you feel like you really overcame that impulse?

 

Tina Knowles People pleasing?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Tina Knowles I would say probably in my my 50s. I didn’t know the word people pleasing I wasn’t familiar with it but I did a lot of people pleasing and it was one kind of mixed up in being kind because my mom was so kind and she did so many things for so many people, she put herself last. And to me, I love that quality because I was the recipient of all of that sacrifice that she made. It was one, but the other was I confused it with kindness. And as I got older and learned, and I was fiercely protective of my girls, and I didn’t want them to be people-pleasers. So I had to get out of it. And I realized that being kind, you don’t have to always put yourself last. You don’t always have to like dim your light to be kind.

 

Ira Madison III That kindness too, that being protective of your girls. One thing I love about you is that I love your Instagram feed because I feel like you were always sharing a video, you’re always aware of fun things that are happening, conversations that are happening in culture but also like about the family, about the girls. What has it been like for you to develop a way to be online? You talk about when people had stories about Destiny’s Child like when Latoya and Latavia left and coming up with rumors about Kelly being Matthew’s child from an affair. How are you able to be online, see what you see online all the time and still enjoy it and not want to fight with people in the comments?

 

Tina Knowles Well, I get so much enjoyment out of social media. You know, it keeps me up on things. It is a fun place. It is positive place, if you make it that. There are the negative, I mean, there’s so much negativity, so much ugliness, so much jealousy and hate that is spewed on social media, but I choose to look at the joyful things. I don’t, you know, Beyonce told me a long time ago, she’s like, mama, don’t scroll down. And it took me a long time, I have to be very honest, to be able to just look at something and take the good from it. And if it’s something negative, I just keep onnn swiping. That’s the beauty of it. You don’t have to engage in the negativity that’s on social media. You know, they were so afraid for me to get on social media because they were like, mama, social media, it can be really mean and they’re going to tear you apart. You know. I can choose to take the joy from it because it’s a great place and if it’s used correctly and just swipe past all of the bull.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I mean, and if there’s one thing I can say, too, about the Beehive is that I feel like we have matured as a fan base as we’ve grown older, you know. There’s no time for any of that online anymore. You’re arguing with people, you now? Like, the music is there.

 

Tina Knowles Yes, they defend, but they don’t feel like they have to. I think that the beehive has grown up, like you said.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, they’re not on the attack.

 

Tina Knowles That’s right, they’re not on the attack.

 

Ira Madison III I want to ask one last thing. One other beautiful thing in the book is you talking about how the executives didn’t like your clothes early on for the girls, you know? They thought that they weren’t going to cross over with those looks. And then there’s the moment where they’re sitting with Galeana. They’re doing the independent woman video and Lucy Liu is like, I love that look. And I really think now… With the return of Y2K fashion too, people are always looking at these Destiny’s Child looks and being like, that just screams Y2k to me. It’s almost like you perfectly encapsulated the time period. What’s it feel like to look back on those outfits just to see how much they also inspired other pop girls, how much they are inspiring people now, groups like Flo, et cetera. Like people are. looking back to these fashions of yours.

 

Tina Knowles It makes me feel great. I was at the Billboard Awards this weekend, and there was a K-pop group there. I’m not even sure the name of it, but they had on these outfits that looked so much like something Destiny’s Child would have done, and I was just smiling, and I’m sure they were wondering why is this lady smiling and looking at our costumes, but it just brought me back. And I’m very proud of a lot of things that I did. You know, I got a lot flack. Uh, back in the day and because I’m not formally trained, so I didn’t go to design school. So I got a lot of flack for the things that I designed, but then I would see them on somebody’s runway the next season, you know, some version of it or something that I did, you now I have one sleeve off and I’d see people walking down the runway and it was very frustrating. It was very hurtful. I remember one time I did a dress for the Oscars and Beyonce wore it and I mean, people were raving over it. And then when they found out it was my design, they started just putting it down and saying, the fabric looked like she went and got them off the curtains or whatever. You know, it was like, it changed completely and it was very hurtful, but it’s one of my proudest moments because I loved that dress and it was beautiful.

 

Ira Madison III Mm, well, I’ve always really enjoyed those clothes. And I just want to say, with the Y2K stuff coming back, I’m always wearing vintage Fubu pieces and stuff. And the one thing I cannot find on eBay, though, is old derriod stuff. So y’all might have to bring that back, because I would love to be wearing some Dereon.

 

Tina Knowles I love that. That’s such a compliment. I see from time to time people will come where I am and they will have on some Dereon jeans or they’ll have a t-shirt or a dress, the dresses. And I’m like, I’m so happy. Nothing makes me more happy because that was a good time. You know?

 

Ira Madison III Thank you so much for joining me today, Mama Tina, and thank you for the book. It is truly just a wonderful memoir, and you should be very proud of this story. Thank you for sharing it with us.

 

Tina Knowles Thank you for having me. This was a great interview.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, thank you.

 

Tina Knowles God bless you.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, God bless you too. Mama Tina’s memoir, Matriarch, is now available wherever you get your books. And when we’re back, Louis and I get into The Time 100.

 

[AD]

 

Ira Madison III You know that we love a list, and this week we’re diving into Time 100’s most influential people of 2025. There are some names we love, some we loathe, and then Blake Lively.

 

Louis Virtel She’s just there. Let’s get into it. It ends and begins with her. Can I just say about this list and this whole operation in general, there’s such, I’ve overused this word gravitas to the time 100, like you make the time one hundred. You’re one of the most one hundred influential people. Then you click on the person and like Snoop Dogg is on this list and it’s a blurb from Hoda Kotb that literally ends with do I think uncle Snoop is the legit top dog for 2025 fo’ shizzle. Like, is that journalism? What? Also, I’m sorry. Why Snoop Dogg this year? I mean, like she doesn’t really get into it. I watched him work his mellow magic at the 2024 Paris Olympic Games. Okay. So did Celine Dion. Okay. The athletes and audiences couldn’t get enough of his joyful spirit. I’ll never forget when gymnast Simone Biles and Jordan Childs spotted the USA’s hype man grooving in stands and joined him. So this is about because he was at the Olympics. Interesting.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Here’s the thing about the Time 100 list. Magazines are dead or dying. They don’t have a lot of money. And at this point, it is sponsorships and parties that celebrities attend that keep things afloat. And basically, Time Magazine is kept afloating by the Time One Hundred. There’s this big party that happens every year that celebrities attended, and then you get other celebrities to write. A blurb for another celebrity, et cetera. And I think what it comes down to is, obviously you’re creating the list, but you’re obviously also thinking, who can we put on the cover to be honored at this event and ensure that they will come?

 

Louis Virtel Got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, they gotta make the money, I understand that. There are some like very legitimate options here. I mean, you’ve got, Adam Scott is the star of, now maybe the most beloved drama on television. And I have to say, we were sort of in the market for a new beloved drama and television. I felt like after Succession, it was kind of like, wait, why do we love television again? We had Shogun, that was a good moment, but you know. Not by us though. I know, I didn’t even watch Succession. The cast has to be like 75% female if I’m going to watch it. Well, that’s sick.

 

Ira Madison III I watched the last episode. Because first of all, half the men on that cast are female coded.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, moving on, they needed one more sister in the family. That’s it, I’m sorry. You know Alan Rock could have been a woman, sorry. But also on this list, we have Nicole Scherzinger who I have to tell you among pop culture queries to ponder in 2025, I still really do not know if she is gonna win that Tony, if it’s gonna be her or Audra. I’m seeing Audra and Gypsy in the next couple of weeks too. Like if I’m a voter, I am really torn, and I don’t think people should be influenced by the fact that Audra has six Tonys. That’s not what the contest is about. It’s about who deserves it the most. And I think still I want Nicole to take it just because I don’ think anybody ever thought about the musical Sunset Boulevard before. You have to see it. And this you have to and it’s because of her.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, listen, I walk around hearing Nicole Schrodinger’s voice in my ear, and maybe it’s because she’s lurking in the subways in New York, I don’t know.

 

Louis Virtel In that slip. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, but there’s just something so haunting about the melodies in that musical and also I fucking love Andrew Lloyd Webber and I love his bag of tricks and I love that every song in Sunset Boulevard borrows his staccato sort of musical note thing that he always does particularly in the second act of Phantom of the Opera. I’m just obsessed with it and I feel like I grew to love Sunset Blvd more weeks after. Having seen it, you know, like the music has stuck with me, the story’s stuck with, I’m gonna see it again. I think it’s fantastic.

 

Louis Virtel And also there’s a real ASMR quality to that, which is like a Jamie Lloyd standard. His version of A Doll’s House is kind of like that too. But that’s part of what sticks with you too. The fact that half of it is kind whispered to you as opposed to belted.

 

Ira Madison III Now, my question that I always have with this list is it’s the 100 most influential people. Some of these people, who are they influencing?

 

Louis Virtel Right. It feels like Joe Rogan is on this list. Okay, influential, for sure. In fact, that’s all he’s good for or bad for or whatever. Every white man doing a podcast wants to be him. He is the influence. Right. Whereas Kristen Bell, influential? I mean, I enjoy her. She was great as the host of the SAG Awards, which I wrote. But also, and she’s on that show with Adrienne Brody, which by the way is perfectly watchable. But influencing, help me

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, Scarlett, I would say Scarlett is influential because you know what, besides just her acting, Scarlett Johansson has been very vocal about do not fuck with me with AI shit. That has to be what this is about. She is very classic Hollywood, to be honest, because I know you love a litigious actress.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. No, when Betty Davis is like, actually, I’m going to run this whole guild. How about that?

 

Ira Madison III Scarlett Johansson is giving, we will have fun biopics about her in the future. And I can’t wait for the Asian part of the story.

 

Louis Virtel Well, also, by the way, she herself has played a classic actress a time or two. She plays an Esther Williams-like woman in Hail Caesar. But also, don’t forget, she plays Janet Leigh in the movie Hitchcock, which I think was a pleasurable little movie. It’s about the making of Psycho. I love Hitchock. In which Mr. Anthony Hopkins and Miss Helen Mirren, and one of the mysterious four line roles that Tony Collette takes for some reason.

 

Ira Madison III That was their first link up, right? Is Anthony Hopkins also in that movie with Alan Mirren where there were secret Nazi murders? Or is that another actor I’m thinking of?

 

Louis Virtel It does feel like that happens in all Helen Mirren movies that come out in April. Someone is secretly a Nazi and there are murders that are being uncovered. When she was in that movie, Winchester, she’ll just take the check. She’s like, Winchester, is that the butler? I don’t know.

 

Ira Madison III I’m very excited to see Brandon Jacob Jenkins on it. I have not seen Purpose yet, but he’s a fucking amazing.

 

Louis Virtel He did that Sarah Paulson play Appropriate, which was, I thought, a really clever play because it was about what you thought was like a traditional squabble you see families have in plays where it’s like, this sibling’s on the outs, the dad’s standoffish, and they are consumed with these petty family moments, and then you realize there’s a huge problem in this family they’re all not talking about. And the fact that the play illustrates that, the real drama is what’s not being said at all, is very clever.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I think akin to our conversation about centers, this week, Brandon Jacobs Jenkins is a amazing playwright who writes about race and interactions between white and black people in a really interesting way. And I also think he uses the constructs of theater in a very interesting way, you know? I’m sure purpose is fantastic. And like you said, appropriate was really about. Here’s a messy white drama. It could have been August Osage County, right? But then the twist.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, it pretends to be August Osage County.

 

Ira Madison III Then it’s something else.

 

Louis Virtel Right. I would even compare that play a little bit to like the zone of interest. Like you’re consumed with these petty family dramas on screen, but then you’re like, wait, in the background, is that a concentration camp? Like what’s really happening here?

 

Ira Madison III Our girl, Danielle Deadweiler is on this list, which thank God someone is celebrating her.

 

Louis Virtel I mean, also, she is just pure talent. I didn’t see this. Apparently, she’s in a not very good horror movie called, like, The Woman in the Yard or something. And by the way, if you’re going to call a movie The Woman In the Yards, it better be about the making of the song Milkshake. It better be. Let me tell you something, that bitch doesn’t even stay in the yard. It’s in the title. I paid money to see the woman in the art. Why are you in the kitchen? Liar, the lying woman. The woman you should call the lying women. I met Danielle Deadweiler briefly at the SAG awards and the kind of person you have to tell, I had a talk, I was like, you’re a genius. It’s not just because of Till, it’s not because of Carion, which you would think would be a thankless action movie role where she is amazing in that. She just can do anything. Again, the piano lesson, movie adaptation, nobody talks about that had plenty going for it. Namely her, and she does my favorite thing, which is making boring exposition somehow thrilling. I think that is the acting superpower. When you can do things like that, I’m blown away.

 

Ira Madison III It is so interesting thinking about her career just because she has this career that most amazing black actresses sort of have in the beginning. You’re doing a lot of amazing work that you should maybe be nominated for, and yet you’re not. It’s giving Viola Davis’s career before she joined How to Get Away with Murder, and it’s just, TV is in such a weird place now where it’s not like Daniel Deadweiler can hop over to ABC. Get famous enough for people in the industry to care, and then come back and be Viola Davis, you know? I’m just so interested in where Danielle is gonna have to maneuver to make people care.

 

Louis Virtel And, but also she is so inspirationally great that I assume people will write movies for her. I mean, that is my hope and prayer, but also it’s funny you bring up ABC too. ABC literally picked up no new shows this season except one spin-off of a previously existing show. Man, oh man, like it’s so hard to get on an original interesting TV show. You know, we really rely on streaming for that now. It’s like super grim out there.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, you would think a show like The Pit would be on network TV, and it would have been once upon a time.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Which by the way, I just finished also and I assume it’s going to be a big contender at the Emmys this year. Only a couple performances I’m a little dubious about. Maybe we’ll get into that another week. Anyway, back to this list.

 

Ira Madison III The leaders are a collection of psychos.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, a suicide squad!

 

Ira Madison III Speaking of Viola Davis, this is the new team that she’s gathered to save the world. Oh, okay. She did a worse job this time. I think that this is not shocking because it’s a reminder that time is not just celebrating these people, they’re also writing about horrible people who are changing things in the world for better or worse, but Donald Trump, Elon Musk, JD Vance, Megyn Kelly, RFK Jr. Come on, first of all, I’ll go with the easiest one first. Megyn Kelly, that heffa’s not influencing anything.

 

Louis Virtel I know, she’s just madder than ever. That’s it.

 

Ira Madison III If anything, Megyn Kelly’s influence is due to the fact that the media can’t stop reporting on every inane thing that she says. Every racist, disgusting thing that she says keeps getting written about. Ignore her.

 

Louis Virtel She is among the living worst, and I do believe they should all be ranked. That’s a good list. Time ranked the 100 worst people. Let’s go.

 

Ira Madison III I don’t know if you read that profile of Megyn Kelly in the New York Times, and I think that’s a more appropriate use of writing about this woman. It’s a profile of her, which just reveals how much of a monster that she is.

 

Louis Virtel Remember when we gave somebody an Oscar nomination for playing her in a movie? That was a mistake. I thought that’s when the influence ended, by the way. I can’t believe she’s still on anybody’s mind.

 

Ira Madison III Wasn’t that Scarlet too?

 

Louis Virtel No, it was Charlize Theron and Margot Robbie and Nicole Kidman.

 

Ira Madison III It feels like every blonde A-list actress was in that movie. So forgive me for thinking it was Scarlett Johansson.

 

Louis Virtel If you were blonde and not in that movie, you should be insulted. And I’m talking about you, Sarah Paulson. You should call somebody. Somebody else on this list that I find kind of puzzling just for this year, not that I don’t love her, Kristen Wiig. They bring up that she’s Maxine in Palm Royale. Definitely a show. I think some people watched it. Why is she influential? I’m not seeing it. We have a blurb here written by the fabulous Marielle Heller who directed her in the movie Diary of a Teenage Girl. Pretty underrated movie. Otherwise, not really understanding why she’s on the list. She’s why I still wear the wigs. Oh, okay. You think she reminds people that wigs exist and that’s why she’s on the list. I have to say, for that reason alone, she should be number one.

 

Ira Madison III Rosé is on the list, formerly of Blackpink, and she is a pioneer, even if just a pioneer in using the N-word.

 

Louis Virtel But I feel like she wasn’t the first, do you know what I mean? Is it really pioneering?

 

Ira Madison III Pioneering for K-pop stars. I’m joking. I actually really enjoy it. Rosé, I honestly wish she had performed at Coachella instead of Jenny.

 

Louis Virtel I thought Lisa was fabulous.

 

Ira Madison III Oh, Lisa was fabulous. Even though I do sort of not love that apartment song.

 

Louis Virtel Okay.

 

Ira Madison III That Rosé sings with Bruno Mars. I love the part of it that sounds like the ting-tings and then the rest of it is not for me.

 

Louis Virtel Did I already mention that I have completely come around on Fat Juicy and wet? I’m so sorry it’s so bad. I’m sorry.

 

Ira Madison III Oh you have? Oh you have?

 

Louis Virtel I don’t know what happened. Guys, I don’ know what happen. It came on the radio or something recently and first of all, you know, Sexy Red and I are like this. Like I’m down with Sexy red. You’re sexy white. The sexy whitest, please. Actually, I am sexy red. I am fucking sunburned right now and wearing makeup like I’m Greta Garbo or Marlena Dietrich, like don’t look too closely. But I think it’s that Bruno’s verses repeated several times, that if you hear it once, twice, three, it’s so TikTok oriented, you know, the song could be like 50 seconds long, basically. And I just got into it. I don’t know. Now I listen to it all the time. It might be my most listened to song this past month.

 

Ira Madison III Wow, how’s the radio edit of that song?

 

Louis Virtel I mean, what is that? I think it’s probably just a drum. I have no idea.

 

Ira Madison III Large, moist, and something. I need the Kidz Bop version of Fat, Juicy, and Wet. That would be fun.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, but you can’t even say fat, right? What would it be? Rotund, educated, and fun.

 

Ira Madison III Uh, Madam C. J. Walker.

 

Louis Virtel Nikki Glaser is on this list. That makes sense to me, right? I think she’s maybe the definitive stand-up comedian right now, and thank God, because that’s rarely a woman.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, there are a lot of CEOs on this list too. And I just want to say, if I were a CEO this year, don’t put me on a list, baby. No, you’re already on a less, you know what I’m saying? That’s like the list the principal would find in someone’s locker when we were in high school, okay?

 

Louis Virtel Don’t make it any easier for the people to list you. By the way, in terms of influence, it is a bit nefarious that Luigi Mangione is not on the list. Yes. Where is he? I mean, who would have guessed that someone like that would emerge? And I mean it is about thought ultimately, I think what people are obsessed with in addition to him having the symmetrical eyebrows and all that.

 

Ira Madison III First of all, we are gonna be thinking about Luigi Mangione more than we’ll be thinking about Luigi of Mario and Luigi.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, take that, bitch. For years to come. You said you don’t like a tall man in overalls. You said, uh, leave me alone, the characters of Harper Lee.

 

Ira Madison III I prefer a short king. Really? You know, I like Mario. I like Mario. Luigi, aren’t we sure he’s even his real brother?

 

Louis Virtel They do not seem related. I have to see that like, to put it in Nicole Kidman terms, he’s clearly an ectomorph. And I don’t. I gotta see the parents to believe this.

 

Ira Madison III She used one of my favorite references to, Luigi has always given me Lenny from Mice and Men.

 

Louis Virtel He is what we used to call a big galoot.

 

Ira Madison III Were you ever on one of those lists, by the way? What do you mean? Like the CEOs, like in our era, for people who don’t remember, there was a specific time in American schools where kids were writing hit lists. That’s what they did. Before they auditioned for American Idol, that’s how you got attention in high school. Post Columbine, yeah, did your name ever appear on one?

 

Louis Virtel It sounds like your name did. You know, I did it again, and that distressed me. Oh, I see. You weren’t even noticed enough. You’re like, fuck, what can I do? I’ve got star power. Was I ever? No, no, no. I’m trying to think of anything even. No, I, I I did get two high school superlatives in the yearbook, if that’s what you mean by a list. Most likely to win an Oscar and most likely to a Pulitzer. Baby, I’m on my way.

 

Ira Madison III For the Pulitzer?

 

Louis Virtel You barely read. Yeah, no, no I have to say. It’s always crazy when people want to pressure you to write a book and it’s like, girl, I’ve got to relearn what that is, a book, what you just said. Yeah, you’re still hopping on pop. One fish, two fish, red fish, girl fish. That’s me.

 

Ira Madison III Was there anyone that you would put on the Time 100 list who was influential this year?

 

Louis Virtel I am surprised that Kieran Culkin is maybe not on the list. I felt like he was so everywhere and now has dominated both TV and movies, and he’s this hot draw on Broadway too, so that sort of makes no sense that he’s not on the list

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, and I mean, they’ve got enough despicable people on the list. I am shocked that Karla Sofia Gascon is not on it.

 

Louis Virtel Talk about a thought leader and by that, I mean, what was she thinking?

 

Ira Madison III She was the year’s diva, okay? I am pretty sure that Pablo Larray is going to take his trilogy and turn it into a, what’s the word for four?

 

Louis Virtel Quadrology, tetralogy?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, turn it to a quadrology because I need to see his Karla.

 

Louis Virtel Just the Imagine universe of her taking a Lyft scooter to the Oscars. That’s what I want because Netflix cut off her budget.

 

Ira Madison III Being haunted by her tweets, like from a cell phone that’s dead, she’s still getting tweets to it. I want to see the horror movie aspect of this. I want her at the Oscars dramatized.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, I’m sorry. Ryan Murphy is good for things like this. He should be equipped for this reason.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, but I needed to be a movie. You know, I needed to be little more elevated. Okay, sure. We’ll save it. And she should play herself. I would assume she has the time, so. How many people have done that by the way? Played themselves on a biopic.

 

Louis Virtel Huh, I know Joan Rivers and Melissa Rivers played themselves in a biopic about when Joan’s husband, Edgar, killed themself, I believe. That’s the only one that’s coming to mind right now. So it would, well, it’s like that TV movie era where it’s, like, it could be on network, but they needed something to put on Friday nights sometimes.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I think I want to see an era of people playing themselves in a biopit. Let’s get more of that.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, all right. It seems very Madonna biopic coded by that. I mean, never gonna happen.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, oh, other side note about biopics. At a recent red carpet, Complex was asking actors who should have a biopic, you know, who’s fame is important. Obviously, people were saying, people like Beyonce, Madonna, et cetera. The amount of people who said Nina Simone and the amount of the people who say Nina Simone and also hinted that. It’s because of the blackface, that Donna did it. The other graphic. Oh, they did know. Oh, we need a real one. Yeah, yeah. We need a really one. Oh, they did know. Oh, we need a real one. Yeah, yeah, okay. We need a really one.

 

Louis Virtel They’ve done the homework, okay, yeah. Yeah. What happened, Miss Simone? Never a truer question.

 

Ira Madison III That is still one of the wilder biopic things to be so yeah, I think we’re in need of a real new biopic

 

Louis Virtel It should be called God damn like the song Mississippi God damn spelled the same way. That’s my that’s my option. All right. When we are back, it’s Keep It.

 

Ira Madison III And we’re back with our favorite segment of the episode. It is Keep It. Louis, what’s yours?

 

Louis Virtel My Keep It is retroactive because they actually just fixed the thing I was going to say keep it to, which is the Oscars are now requiring voters to, are you ready for this? Watch the movies before people vote in a given category. What were we doing before then? Just assuming that anybody with a membership to the Academy was like going to Blockbuster and like picking everything up and like a barrel and then watching them at home. I started to think how many people deserve Oscars for movie performances that they didn’t get because people did not see them. I am absolutely talking about Ms. Isabel Hupear and Elle, the best performance of that year. No shade to Emma Stone. I just rewatched La La Land. Charming performance. Third place at best, mama. Sorry, absolutely not. I hope this really has an amazing effect on the kinds of winners we get. I haven’t too disappointed in recent years. With people who’ve won acting Oscars. Wait, sorry, I just was stricken with a heart attack because I remember Jamie Lee Curtis, nevermind. There are some bad options. But the idea that people were potentially not seeing all these movies, you know, there’s that quote from Kirsten Dunst. She’s asked if she saw the movies in a given year. She goes, yes, I’m a member of the Academy. I saw everything. That should be a very commonplace attitude. And yet it was completely out of left field that she said that. It’s a little bone chilling actually to think of how many. Films people just skipped over because they didn’t care or whatever. I mean, if you’re a movie lover, you should be obsessed with any movie that has any heat behind it. If people are talking about a movie, you shouldn’t be interested in it. So I have to say, keep it to whatever the hell we were doing before this emerged. Though I have say, I’m a little sympathetic to voters because it sounds like if you don’t watch the movie on the Academy app, which is amazing for Academy voters, you can watch all the nominated films in one place at home. Then if you watch it at a festival or something, you have to provide documentation that you watched it and. I hate tax season period, don’t make me print out a receipt, whatever. The idea that you have to remember to keep this shit together does seem a bit annoying.

 

Ira Madison III But you know what, if you’re voting for the most important election of the year…

 

Louis Virtel Yes, thank you, Ira, brainwashed by me.

 

Ira Madison III That you should have to, you know? I think too many of these people just freestyle it.

 

Louis Virtel No, I think all the time about like the Emmys, for example, like I’m in the late night category and I’m like, oh, that’d be so amazing to win and these one of these things. You know people are voting based on vibes. They’re not like watching every episode of a late night show and then calculating who deserved it the most. And with the Oscars, you don’t have to watch an entire television series, you just have to a movie. So, it’s not that much of an undertaking.

 

Ira Madison III And how many times do we get those brutally honest ballots where someone talks about how they didn’t even want something.

 

Louis Virtel Right, and that’s their rad take too. They think that contributes to a point of view, not knowing what the fuck is going on.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I’m not an Academy voter, so sometimes I’ll skip a move.

 

Louis Virtel And once you’re, you know, invited to the big girl school, you will watch all the movies. Because I will buy a gun and make you do it. You got pistols and whips. I dress as Lara Croft for Halloween some days, sometimes.

 

Ira Madison III My Keep It this week is actually more of a celebratory Keep It, Oh, we hate this from you. Go ahead. Yeah, a keep it up, if you will. I remember that. Someone snatched Homeland Security head Kristi Noem’s handbag.

 

Louis Virtel $1,000 first of all, let me just do my Ice Tea impression, “Dog killlllah.” Okay.

 

Ira Madison III Girl, steal her bag every week, okay?

 

Louis Virtel If that happened to her every week like in a… Like that woman in the Marx Brothers movie, Margaret Dumont, just like getting like bamboozled every week.

 

Ira Madison III People call her Ice Barbie, which is so funny to me, because let me tell you something about this woman. Besides celebrating the fact that she killed her dog. She loves glamor shots.

 

Louis Virtel All the time.

 

Ira Madison III All the time. She’s running around with blowouts. She’s runnin’ around with her designer bags, taking photos in front of, you know, people who’ve been locked up and deported to other countries. She’s just a vile woman. And I think it is symptom, like the worst symptom of the Trump sphere of everyone being a hired because they quote unquote look good for TV. It’s like he’s still hiring for The Apprentice and everyone is making a show for him to watch. And it’s like she is the lead on the Trump drama. And her bag being stolen is so embarrassing. It’s more embarrassing, I think, to Trump than it is Pete Hegseth and his text. First of all, he was on Signal again, texting things to family members. Girl, what is going on with the group text?

 

Louis Virtel Situation here. Let me just tell you something. I’m like a butterfingers texter and I will text the wrong thing to certain people at certain times. I should not be able to relate to the Secretary of Defense. That is simply bone chilling. But I also want to say about Kristi Noem, she is always doing photo shoots and routinely it’s like sometimes she’s wearing a hard hat or sometimes she is a park ranger. It’s like she’s auditioning to be like a Getty Images model. She just wants to come up as any search term.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, that’s why they call her Ice Barbie. She’s every version of an employee.

 

Louis Virtel Right! No, and always in the humorless expression too. And also it just cannot be understated how motherfucking dumb this person is. Like every excerpt from her atrocious book is laugh out loud funny.

 

Ira Madison III Also, the $3,000 in cash in her purse, which was for treating her family to dinner and buying gifts. Sure.

 

Louis Virtel $3,000? That sounds like something from literally Black Bag.

 

Ira Madison III Girl, I need to know how many grams you were buying, okay?

 

Louis Virtel She was like, Coachella’s coming. I gotta buy it for me and the girls. She was going to weekend two, okay?

 

Ira Madison III Okay, maybe she’s going to Stage Coach, actually.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, bottom room, maybe closer to her vibe. I don’t know.

 

Ira Madison III And $3,000, that must mean it’s expensive, girl, who is your condo dealer, okay? Like, let a girl know and pass this number along.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah please. Please

 

Ira Madison III That’s why Pete Hegseth has signal. He’s the one who’s doing the buying, but not just the bag being stolen, not just $3000 being in it. She had security with her. She had security with here at this restaurant where her bag was snatched. GIRL! Who was watching?

 

Louis Virtel No, also, I mean, clearly an Ocean’s 8 is occurring.

 

Ira Madison III Oh, this is just step one. This is just a step one, what are they heisting?

 

Louis Virtel Oh God. Well, I mean, it sounds like everybody in the Trump cabinet is very easy to bedevil. You know what I mean? They’re all like bumblefucks. It’s like Scooby-Doo villains.

 

Ira Madison III Well, I can’t wait until we get to the third act of this Oceans 8 movie, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, if Helena Bonham Carter appears in the 11th hour, I’d be thrilled.

 

Ira Madison III Julia Roberts playing herself.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. Great performance from Julia Roberts.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, anything else to say about these goofy people?

 

Louis Virtel They are the goofiest. I mean, there’s a new documentary about a goofy movie and it’s right in line. There’s a theme this week.

 

Ira Madison III I don’t know if there are any power lines going on in these brains.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. And I don’t think they know the works of Tevin Campbell, which is a huge part of a goofy movie.

 

Ira Madison III His best work.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, totally.

 

Ira Madison III I am so happy, by the way, that, last thing I want to say, Disney, I guess, is canceling all their future live-action movies.

 

Louis Virtel I would line up for them. I said, I need to see the armoire from Beauty and the Beast stand up like a man. I said it.

 

Ira Madison III So if you want to do remakes and sequels Disney, now that we’re not doing this live action shit, give us a new Goofy movie.

 

Louis Virtel Apparently we could stand to have three or four more also the look on goofy’s face. What is wrong with him? It’s giving horny

 

Ira Madison III Goofy does always look like he’s a little goony.

 

Louis Virtel Oh no, not a Goonie movie. I’ve seen em.

 

Ira Madison III I’ve been in the Goon Troop.

 

Louis Virtel Moving on.

 

Ira Madison III That’s our episode this week.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my God. That might be our last episode. I’m so sorry.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I hope Tina doesn’t listen to this episode.

 

Louis Virtel No, she’s gonna stick with The Daily today.

 

Ira Madison III Ha ha ha!

 

Ira Madison III All right, that’s our episode. Thank you to Tina Knowles for joining us and we will see you next week. And don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. You can also subscribe to Keep It on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And, if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review.

 

Louis Virtel Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our producer is Bill McGrath. Our associate producer is Kennedy Hill. And our executive producers are Ira Madison III, Louis Virtel, and Kendra James.

 

Ira Madison III Our digital team is Delon Villanueva, Claudia Sheng, and Rachel Gaieski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Jarek Centeno. Thank you to David Toles, Kyle Seglin, and Charlotte Landes for production support every week.

 

Louis Virtel Our head of production is Matt DeGroot and Madeline Herringer is our head of programming. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

 

Ira Madison III And as always, Keep It as filmed in front of a live studio audience.