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Americans don’t trust the government anymore. Annie Lowery, Atlantic staff writer and author of the new book The Time Tax, joins Offline to identify the culprit: a plodding, vindictive, racist bureaucracy that people must navigate to get government services and benefits. The paperwork, lines and emotional strain—just to feed your kids or renew your driver’s license––adds up to a “time tax” that falls most heavily on low-income Americans. Annie and Jon take stock of the Kafka-esque system and discuss why, if Democrats don’t do something to change it, people will continue to tune out the party that wants to build something better.

For a transcript of this episode, please email transcripts@crooked.com