• It’s 2025, and if you’re a Millennial or Gen Zer, there’s a good chance that you are qualified to manage and lead other people, even run for political office. Yes! Even you, the person who shares “I’m just a baby” memes! But taking that leap into leadership can be super intimidating, especially when it feels like the qualities needed to be a ‘good leader’ have changed so much in the last 10 to 15 years. Amanda Litman, co-founder and president of Run for Something and author of the new book ‘When We’re In Charge,’ shares some tips and tricks for the next generation of leaders.
• And in headlines: Trump administration officials projected confidence after a weekend of trade talks with China, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky invited Russian President Vladimir to meet with him for direct peace talks in Turkey, and White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller says the administration is considering suspending the constitutional provision that allows people to challenge their detention in court.

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TRANSCRIPT

Jane Coaston: It’s Monday, May 12th. I’m Jane Coaston, and this is What a Day, the show that thinks President Donald Trump accepting a luxury plane from the Qatari royal family to serve as the new Air Force One is very normal and cool and not corrupt and definitely doesn’t make me think of the Trojan horse, which definitely ended totally fine for the city of Troy. [music break] On today’s show, White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller says the Trump administration is thinking about putting a major constitutional right on pause because that’s definitely how rights are supposed to work. And the White House projects confidence after a weekend of trade talks with China. But let’s start today with you, yes you. It’s 2025. And if you were born in or after 1981, making you a millennial, or 1997, making you Gen Z, there’s a good chance that you are qualified and prepared to manage other people or run for political office. Yes, even you, the person who shares, I’m just a baby memes. Now, maybe you have been thinking about running for office. You see everything that’s going on right now and you’re thinking, I wanna make this better. And sure, you might not be thinking about running for the House or Senate because big races can be very expensive. And besides, spending lots of time in the same vicinity as, say, Georgia Republican Representative Marjorie Taylor Green, sounds like a punishment for a crime you never committed. But city council, school board, state legislature, the positions that to me matter most if you want to make real change for everyday people. But even if you don’t want to run for office, no matter where you work or what industry you work in. Whether you’re newly elected to the state Senate or leading a team at work, you might have had a sudden realization you have absolutely no idea what you’re doing or how to do it or how to look like you know what you are doing. I get it. You want to be a good leader, but you don’t want to be an asshole people complain about on Reddit. You want to be effective, but not ruthless. You want to be authentic, but you aren’t exactly sure what that means. Just how much about your life should the people you work with know? You have a lot of questions about being a good leader. And honestly, so do I. So I talked to Amanda Litman. She’s co-founder and president of Run For Something and author of the new book, When We’re In Charge: The Next Generation’s Guide to Leadership, which comes out tomorrow. Amanda, welcome to What a Day. 

Amanda Litman: Thanks for having me, Jane. 

Jane Coaston: So your book aims to be a practical manual for millennials and Gen Z-ers who are taking on positions of power. But not necessarily exclusive to those who are in political office. What are the common threads you see across industries no matter where people are working? 

Amanda Litman: So for the book I interviewed folks from tech, media, I interviewed faith leaders, teachers, doctors, you know across all different sectors. And I heard a bunch of things in common. One, they felt like they were operating without a playbook. Like they were trying to do things differently than every boss they’d ever had before, which meant they didn’t really have a good role model for it. Two, they had been told, be yourself, be authentic. And it’s like, what does that look like in practice? Like what does that actually mean if you’re in charge of other people? Three, that it was so lonely. Ugh, I heard this in so many of my conversations that leadership is so lonely. 

Jane Coaston: Right. I just keep thinking about how there’s a real tendency for people our age to come in and be like, should we be like the cool mom where it’s like, no, no, no. Those rules are for other people, but we’re cool. And then it turns out that actually rules are cool sometimes. 

Amanda Litman: Boundaries are great. 

Jane Coaston: Huge fan. But do you think those hurdles are unique to younger people or do you think it just looks different now how we are perceiving what leadership is? 

Amanda Litman: I think a lot of these are challenges leaders of all ages have faced like over millennia but I think some of the tactics of the modern era make it really different like you can’t have a zoom meeting without being afraid that it’s gonna go viral because someone could be recording it or screenshotting it like that wasn’t true even five or ten years ago similarly you know our our bosses that we had five or 10 years ago didn’t have to think about how they posted on Instagram and what their employees might see because this wasn’t like a thing that you had to do similarly like what does it mean to show up at work with tattoos or a different kind of hair or like wear fun earrings? Like the changing definition of professionalism has really expanded the models of what you can look like, which I think is a good thing. But also it can be really scary. 

Jane Coaston: Absolutely. And one of the points you make that I really want to drill into a little bit more is the importance of bringing your authentic self to a leadership role, but like not your self self, which you and I, I think we both know what that means. You talk about it in the book, but what do you mean by your authentic self? And why is that an important quality? But it’s also not sometimes what we think it means. 

Amanda Litman: You know, I think that especially like influencers, celebrities, politicians who we feel like are being authentic have taught us what a particular way that that looks like. And we don’t always like break it down to realize, no, no, this is a performance. Even the people we think are being their true selves, like they are still self-regulating. They’re still like choosing silence sometimes. And that doesn’t mean they’re not being who they are. They’re just being intentional. And I think a lot of folks sort of get this intuitively once you start to explain it. But your job is not to be your true self. It’s to be your best self, especially when your leadership is at work. And that sometimes means moderating to know what your team needs to hear. Cause actually, and I think this is the most important thing about all of this is like your leadership is not about you, it’s about your team and about what they need from you. And that’s sometimes means you have to adjust a little and that’s okay. That’s not faking it. That’s strategic. 

Jane Coaston: Yeah. And how do you find that line in politics? You’ve done so much important work through Run for Something and it feels like voters are really thirsty for authenticity. And I think you’re seeing this now where a lot of people in politics have decided that swearing makes you authentic. But there is a degree to which we actually don’t want authentic authenticity. So for people who are interested in pursuing politics, How do you make yourself accessible and transparent without oversharing yourself too? Because that’s not just off-putting to other people, it’s also tough on you. Yeah, I think that, like, psychological harm that it can do when you give your full self to your audience, your followers, your community, your constituents, your voters. Like it means when they don’t like you, which like even the most popular politician, hypothetically, has like a 70% approval rating, a 60% approval rating, which doesn’t even really happen anymore. That still means 30 or 40% of people don’t like them. And it can be really hard to take that mentally if you have given everything you have to those people. So, you know, what Run for Something tells our candidates is like, be really clear about what you believe, know what your values are, know sort of what you want your brand to be, like what are the personal parts of your life that you want to share with people? You know, maybe it’s your sports fandom or your hobbies or like your exercise workouts or your family, whatever it is, and then know what you don’t wanna share and don’t be afraid to hold firm around those boundaries. 

Jane Coaston: Yeah, and I think that we’re seeing some pushback to the share everything world by millennials who are exhausted by it because we’ve been doing it since–

Amanda Litman: We were teenagers. [laugh] 

Jane Coaston: I just started thinking about [?] overwhelmed and you know, Gen Zers who may not have just experienced sharing their lives themselves, but even having their parents share their lives. There’s so much emotional labor involved in being online and performing online. But I think especially in public facing jobs like media or politics or business, in some cases, you kind of have to be. So for would be leaders who are worried about how to share, not share, what to share, what not to share. Do you have any advice? 

Amanda Litman: Oh I have so much advice. There’s a whole chapter just on social media specifically. You know I think about with like the Gen Zers understood this intuitively of the idea of a Finsta. You have a private Instagram just for your friends because you know there’s some parts of you you don’t want to give to the world but you do want to give the people you are intimate with. And knowing that not everything requires a personal statement. You don’t have to like announce your endorsement or announce your stance on everything. That doesn’t mean you don’t care. That doesn’t mean you don’t have values but like really being conscientious that everything you post online is part of a strategic communications tool. Doesn’t mean fake, it just means intentional. 

Jane Coaston: And I want to talk a little bit more about politics because you’ve talked a lot and worked a lot on how Trump’s return to office has driven a wave of first-time interest in running for office. It’s something that we saw as as you well know back in 2016, 2017, 2018, which helped lead to a blue wave and to I would argue Biden’s election in 2020. What are you seeing on the ground this time? 

Amanda Litman: So in the six months since election day, which last week marked six months since election day. It feels wild. Run for something has seen more people sign up to run for office than we did in the entire first three years of Trump’s first term. We’ve had about 45,000 people raise their hands that join our pipeline, which now numbers over 200,000 young people. It is an unprecedented surge in organic interest. That makes me really excited for what is possible in 2026, because I think we’ve now seen the last couple special elections, the Wisconsin Supreme Court race, that when we run, we can win. So we got to run and field candidates everywhere. Cause the battlefield could be really, really big. 

Jane Coaston: Now, I know your organization focuses a lot on down ballot races, which I think is fantastic because I think that that can be often some of the most important places for political decision-making. But I think one of the barriers that a lot of young people see, and even people like I’m 37 and I’m thinking in politics terms, I’m a child because Congress is dominated–

Amanda Litman: Yeah. 

Jane Coaston: –by people who are much older than me and much older than Gen Z-ers, and they may have held their job for decades. And it’s really easy to feel overwhelmed by those forces that entrench the status quo of incumbency. So what are you telling people who feel daunted by that? One, you can do this. 

Amanda Litman: So they’re just like straight up words of encouragement. You can do this. Two, politics is like everything else. That the more you do it, the better you get at it. Nobody is born a politician, the same way nobody’s born a writer or a musician. You become a politician by putting your name on the ballot. Local races are where most of these politicians got their start. Very few people start right with Congress. And I would argue Congress doesn’t seem that fun to begin with. And these local positions, like you don’t need as much money as you think. I think that 75% of school board races cost $1,000 or less. 85% cost $5,000 or less. That’s a lot of money, but it’s also not the millions you see being talked about with congressional campaigns. Most people, the number of voters you need to talk to is in the thousands. If you’re willing to work hard and knock doors, you can absolutely outwork an incumbent especially who probably doesn’t see you coming. 

Jane Coaston: So, how does the next generation force change when those who are in power, for reasons we could get into that, they aren’t ready to relinquish it? How do you do it? 

Amanda Litman: You run against them. You force the conversation about the issues in which they’re not doing a good job enough, so whether it’s not holding town halls, not fighting hard enough, not investing back in community, you go where they aren’t and you go where they are, which feels like sort of contradictory advice, but both being present in the community and the places the incumbent isn’t showing up, and then also making sure that they can’t escape you, like go to the forums, demand presence, call them out for being afraid of you, and then know that you’re gonna have to create a little bit of productive conflict. And that you can’t be afraid of that. Especially in a primary challenge where you probably agree on most things, you probably share the values, you’ve really gotta be able to present an alternative vision for what the community could get if you win. I think that’s the final piece of really any good campaign is it’s about voters, not about you. It’s why do they want you to win, not why do you wanna win, which is because winning is great and losing sucks. 

Jane Coaston: Amanda, thank you so much for joining me. 

Amanda Litman: Thank you for having me and I’m glad you appreciated the book. 

Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with Amanda Litman, co-founder and president of Run For Something. Her new book, When We’re In Charge: The Next Generation’s Guide to Leadership is out tomorrow. And you can order it now at crooked.com/books or wherever you get your books. We’ll also throw a link in our show notes. We’ll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. [music break]

[AD BREAK]

Jane Coaston: Here’s what else we’re following today. 

[sung] Headlines. 

[clip of Howard Lutnick] So we do expect a 10% baseline tariff to be in place for the foreseeable future. But don’t buy the silly arguments that the U.S. consumer pays. Businesses, their job is to try to sell to the American consumer. And domestically produced products are not gonna have that tariff. So the foreigners–

[clip of Dana Bash] So whose gonna eat the tariff? 

[clip of Howard Lutnick] –are gonna finally have to compete. They’re gonna have to, what happens is, the businesses and the countries primarily eat the tariff. 

Jane Coaston: Sure. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick was quick to defend President Trump’s tariffs when asked if the baseline 10% tariff and the framework for the US-UK deal announced last week would stay in place. The Secretary spoke with CNN’s Dana Bash on Sunday about taxes on imports, inflation, and trade deals. You know, everyone’s three favorite things. Just a reminder, consumers seeing an increase in prices is not a silly argument. While companies pay the tariffs, the costs are often passed along because businesses would like to make money because that’s how capitalism works. Most economists say that ultimately consumers, meaning us, everyday Americans, end up paying more. So what about those across-the-board tariffs on the entire world? Well, they’re not going anywhere either. 

[clip of Dana Bash] Is that 10% tariff kind of a baseline in the way you’re approaching these other countries that you’re negotiating with? 

[clip of Howard Lutnick] Yes, we will not go below 10%. That is just not a place we’re going to go. 

Jane Coaston: Lutnick also commented on the U.S.-China trade negotiations, saying things, quote, “feel really good,” but didn’t go into further detail. Although in an interview with Fox News Sunday, Lutnick did acknowledge that the 145 percent and 125 percent tariffs the US and China have on each other are, quote, “too high to do business.” 

[clip of Scott Bessent] I’m happy to report that we’ve made substantial progress between the United States and China in the very important trade talks. 

Jane Coaston: Speaking of China and tariffs, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent appeared confident after a weekend of trade negotiations with a Chinese delegation in Switzerland. It was their first face-to-face meeting since President Trump spiked tariffs on Chinese products. Bessent made a brief statement Sunday with U.S. Trade Representative Ambassador Jamieson Greer by his side. The pair touted progress but didn’t offer up too many details. Bessent said more info would be announced today. 

[clip of Scott Bessent] But I can tell you that the talks were productive. We had the vice premier, two vice ministers who were integrally involved, Ambassador Jamieson and myself. 

Jane Coaston: Riveting stuff, secretary, riveting stuff. Anyway, Greer told reporters that maybe our differences with China were not as big as they seemed. An interesting take on countries that have so far doled out over 100% tariffs to one another. But Greer appeared to suggest that a deal of some kind was made. 

[clip of Jamieson Greer] Just to remember why we’re here in the first place. The United States has a massive $1.2 trillion trade deficit. So the president declared a national emergency and imposed tariffs. And we’re confident that the deal we struck with our Chinese partners will help us to resolve, work toward resolving that national emergency. 

Jane Coaston: President Trump commented on the negotiation Saturday in a Truth Social post saying, quote, “many things discussed, much agreed to. A total reset negotiated in a friendly but constructive manner.” What the president meant by a total reset remains to be seen. Also, what many things were discussed. The Chinese delegation called the talks constructive and said it would be issuing a joint statement with the US today. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Sunday invited Russian President Vladimir Putin to meet with him face-to-face for direct peace talks in Turkey after a chaotic weekend of back-and-forth between the two countries. This all started Saturday, when Ukraine, along with other European countries, demanded that Russia agree to an unconditional 30-day ceasefire or face, quote, “massive new sanctions.” Russia rejected the ceasefire. Instead, Putin proposed that Ukrainian and Russian officials meet directly for peace talks in Turkey on Thursday. Trump called on Ukraine to, quote, “immediately accept the proposal,” in a post on Truth Social Sunday. The president wrote that the meeting would allow European leaders in the US to know if a deal between Russia and Ukraine is actually possible. He added that he’s, quote, “starting to doubt that Ukraine wants to make a deal.” Zelensky responded, saying that he is willing to meet with Putin himself. He tweeted Sunday, quote, “there is no point in prolonging the killings, and I will be waiting for Putin in Turkey on Thursday.” Personally, I hope that this time the Russians will not look for excuses. As of our recording Sunday night, Putin has yet to respond to Zelensky’s offer. Rümeysa Öztürk was released on bail Friday after six weeks in a Louisiana immigration detention center. The Turkish doctoral student at Tufts University faces deportation after the White House accused her of engaging in, quote, “activities in support of Hamas.” Öztürk was arrested by immigration authorities in late March and her student visa was revoked. Öztürk’s lawyers say she was targeted over an op-ed she co-wrote for Tufts’ student newspaper last year, criticizing the university’s response to pro-Palestinian student protests. The federal government has cited this op-ed, an op ed she co wrote, in its case against her. She has not been charged with any crime. A federal judge in Vermont said Friday Öztürk’s detention was a violation of First Amendment rights and, quote, “potentially chills the speech of the millions and millions of individuals in this country who are not citizens.” He ordered her immediate release. But her legal battle isn’t over. She’s still fighting the Trump administration’s efforts to deport her. Öztürk spoke at a news conference at Boston Logan International Airport where she thanked her supporters and said she will continue fighting her case in court. 

Rümeysa Öztürk: America is the greatest democracy in the world and I believe in those values that we share. I have faith in the American system of justice. 

Jane Coaston: Meanwhile, White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller says that the Trump administration is considering suspending habeas corpus because he does not have faith in the American system of justice. Habeas corpus is the provision in the Constitution that grants people, including non-citizens, the right to challenge their detention in court. Miller spoke to reporters at the White House on Friday. 

[clip of Stephen Miller] Well, the Constitution is clear, and that of course is the supreme law of the land, that the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus can be suspended in a time of invasion. So to say that’s an option we’re actively looking at. 

Jane Coaston: To put things very mildly, this would be really fucking bad. Öztürk challenged her detention with a writ of habeas corpus. Habeas petitions are at the center of many lawsuits against the White House’s deportation efforts. And you can’t scream invasion because you want to send people to prison and remove their right to know why. Sources told CNN that President Trump has been personally involved in discussions about potentially suspending habeas corpus. But the answer to the age old question, can he legally do that, is unclear. And that’s the news. [music break] That’s all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, celebrate good examples of righteous pettiness, and tell your friends to listen. And if you’re into reading, and not just about how in both Idaho and Utah, the state government banned non-official flags, like the rainbow pride flag, from flying at schools and governmental buildings, so the capitals of both states, Boise and Salt Lake City, simply made the pride flag an official city flag, like me, What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at crooked.com/subscribe. I’m Jane Coaston and this show appreciates pettiness wielded for the right reason. [music break] What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It’s recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Fohr. Our producer is Michell Eloy. We had production help today from Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters, and Julia Claire. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison, and our executive producer is Adriene Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.