Ira and Louis discuss the Saw franchise, their favorite dating shows, *NSYNC’s return, Alicia Keys’ new business ventures, and their favorite music girl groups. Plus, iconic girl group member and author Geri Halliwell-Horner joins to discuss her new novel Rosie Frost & the Falcon Queen, her music, and more.

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Ira Madison III And we are back with an all new episode of Keep It. I’m Ira Madison, the fourth.

 

Louis Virtel What happened? Something went awry. I’m Louis Virtel, still the first and the only. Why are you the fourth today?

 

Ira Madison III Well, I died this past weekend, Louis.

 

Louis Virtel Oh.

 

Ira Madison III Let me tell you something. There’s a new Saw movie out, and I didn’t know there was, like, a Saw community in the way that there’s, like, a.

 

Louis Virtel Can I discourage a Saw community? I would prefer there not be one.

 

Ira Madison III When I say a Saw community, I mean, the way that if you bring up like Scream, you just say the word like you say Sidney in public and then like ten gays will like pop up and want to talk to you about the Scream franchise, you know, And I did not realize that that also exists for Saw, really, because I never really paid attention to them. I saw the first one, not even in theaters. I think I watched it with a friend once, but X was coming out and you know, we were in the waning days of the strike. The WGA strike is over. You’re back to work.

 

Louis Virtel I have to tell you, it’s painful. I remember when I wanted to go back to work. No, I’m done. Sorry about this. Sorry.

 

Ira Madison III I’m back to not working like I was when the strike.

 

Louis Virtel Slay boots.

 

Ira Madison III So I’m like, Oh, at some point I’ll have to go on job interviews again. What’s that like? But I was like, You know what? I got time. I will watch all nine Saw movies and then go see Saw X. That was a lot.

 

Louis Virtel I have to say. I mean, like they are among the least critically acclaimed movies and franchises collectively that have ever existed. Like, the Earnest movies are like competing for last place.

 

Ira Madison III They’re gory, they are violent, they’re misogynistic, they’re nasty, but also very funny. Some of them.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, really?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Honestly, I would say, you know, I don’t know if you seen the first one is like a good, competent horror film. The second one, I would say, is to compare it to Scream, like very Scream II, like, it’s funnier, it’s bigger, there’s more cast in it. And that is actually my favorite one. Was my favorite one until I saw I saw Ten, which is I Saw X. It’s kind of amazing.

 

Louis Virtel And what’s the X factor, if you will?

 

Ira Madison III It’s amazing in the way that it’s a movie, you know? So the main problem with the Saw franchise and what sort of makes it funny, too, is the fact that Jigsaw, the killer, you know, he has cancer, he has brain cancer. And, you know, now he’s getting his revenge.

 

Louis Virtel We’ve gone too far with this fucker. Okay.

 

Ira Madison III That that’s how the movies that’s how the first movie starts. Oh, you know. Right, right, right. He’s getting revenge on people who, you know, have done misdeeds. You know, like, it’ll be like rapists and murderers, predatory lenders, real estate agents, people who are in a love triangle with one another. That’s one of the plots I Saw 3D, which is.

 

Louis Virtel Is with him on murderers. Okay. Yes. Yes. Like a person speaking too loudly at Starbucks.

 

Ira Madison III But anyway, he dies at the end, the software. And so what happens is the rest of the franchise is basically sort of this movies have always played with time, you know, like the like the second movie, Donnie Wahlberg son is kidnaped because he’s a cop and he’s like trying to get his kid and he’s watching him, like on a on like a TV screen, like in one of Jigsaw’s traps. And then the twist at the end ends up being that like that was already filmed and his son was actually hidden in the room where he was in the first place.

 

Louis Virtel I got it.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. So it’s really about games and following Jigsaw’s rules. And if you sort of do what he says, you’ll come out unscathed. But people always try to beat the games and then they end up dying, etc.. Whatever. Saw Ten, X, takes place between the first film and the second film.

 

Louis Virtel Ah, We’re doing this shit. Oh, got it. Mm hmm.

 

Ira Madison III And it’s actually, you know, light spoilers here. But, you know, it’s actually it feels almost like an A24 film, which sounds silly, but, you know, it’s like it’s an elevated horror film, which is interesting for the franchise. It truly starts out with him. And sort of like a cancer support group dealing with the fact that he has cancer, that he’s dying soon. Someone in the cancer support group gets this medical treatment from like a doctor who’s, you know, outside of the U.S. because of the FDA, etc., whatever, and gives Jigsaw the number for this place and Jigsaw goes. And of course, it ends up being a scam and then it turns into.

 

Louis Virtel They try it with Jigsaw. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III But I mean one of the like highlights of the series is like Tobin Bell, who plays Jigsaw and he’s always been very good and sort of elevates the franchise. But this film shows that he’s like a really fucking good actor.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, wow. I don’t think of this as a showcase for any personalities whatsoever, so that’s really a shocker.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, this is it’s a big showcase for his acting. What’s interesting is a lot of the reviews mention the fact that, you know, like they wonder how fans of the franchise like. Like just mainstream fans of the franchise will respond to this and it did well at the box office and has done well globally actually just mostly because it takes like 40 minutes or so before the plot even kicks in. And there’s the first murder.

 

Louis Virtel And I assume we’re going to get ten more of these movies, too. I had no idea cancer was a huge part of this. He, Susan G.

 

Ira Madison III Komen for this would really just feels like a thriller, too. And it focuses on him as sort of this anti-hero protagonist getting revenge on people. Whereas the other movies have always involved cops and a procedural element. So there’s always this like push and pull of your want, watching the traps and the games and the murders and having fun with that. And then there’s like this boring police procedural that’s also happening in the film, and there’s no fucking police procedural in this one because Acab.

 

Louis Virtel Precisely, precisely. I am wary, of course, of tripping into October, which is a part of my least favorite season, but I will always watch something usually old. I mean, I can tap into some new horror movies too, but like if you’re interested in seeing something that has a thriller element and a little bit of a spooky thing that isn’t horror, I recommend the movie Sleuth, which was remade horribly in the 2000, but the original, with Michael Caine and Laurence Olivier, are both nominated for a Best Actor Oscar. Very rare. That is a fun puzzle movie, kind of. It takes place in a quizzical, strange, whimsical mansion and it’s about games and can you solve the riddles and things like that. So in a way, it’s the original.

 

Ira Madison III Gay Lynch’s house?

 

Louis Virtel Your or Ellen’s house, Ellen’s Game of Games, which is was basically Sleuth. If you never saw that movie.

 

Ira Madison III What was Jane Lynch’s game?

 

Louis Virtel Right celebrity game night.

 

Ira Madison III That she.

 

Louis Virtel Yes yeah.

 

Ira Madison III So she had a.

 

Louis Virtel Hollywood Game Night and I.

 

Ira Madison III Hollywood Game Night and I visited that set.

 

Louis Virtel Oh and there was a band there and they would play like, Yeah, like little mini games and stuff. Yeah. And you’d be like, Oh, Ellie Kemper, you’re crazy.

 

Ira Madison III I was a part of some like writing program or like NBC or whatever years ago. And one of the things was they took us to. Hollywood game night and the set.

 

Louis Virtel Jane Lynch lingers over you and she’s six foot seven. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. We played like a game with her. Like so.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, wow.

 

Ira Madison III That was fun.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, cute, cute yeah. Now, of course, she hosts The Weakest Link. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel All right, well, maybe this Saw movie is in my immediate future. If it’s, like, tolerable to watch. And it seems like there’s actual actors.

 

Ira Madison III I honestly think that you would like it. And I think that. Or at least respect what it’s doing.

 

Louis Virtel That’s nice that you like that back right from the start. Okay.

 

Ira Madison III And I like Tobin Bell. I honestly think that he’s a very good actor. Great actor, honestly. And I would hope that maybe this could get him into some other acting roles.

 

Louis Virtel Beyond A24 movies. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, well, I mean, like, he’s been in films, you know, like he played like the FBI agent in Mississippi Burning.

 

Louis Virtel Mhm.

 

Ira Madison III He’s been in like, he’s played like bit parts, you know, like Mailer’s Goodfellas, like Sophie’s Choice, like, you know, like he’s played these parts and, and this was really sort of his breakout role. But, you know, I think that he has this sort of, like, menacing quality to him but also a very sort of like, sad humanity that’s like behind his eyes, too. Like you’re very sympathetic to him, too. So I would love to see, like, where he could take that. All right. No, I’m not calling him Daniel Day-Louis. Yeah, but, you know, it’s sort of a quality that you see in some of his, like, darker sort of sad roles.

 

Louis Virtel All right. Now, fabulous. All right, great. Well, as we were heading into prestige season, I will be thinking about him and the Saw franchise, which you love. Right. What the hell are we talking about today?

 

Ira Madison III Well, we’ve got an iconic guest this week.

 

Louis Virtel I have to say, we really do. Like, sometimes people are so iconic to the point where I’m actually in pain. Like, why do we get to meet them? Obviously, we don’t deserve it.

 

Ira Madison III We are. We’ve collected our first of, hopefully we catch all five.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Just like Pokemon. Geri Halliwell Horner is here this week. Ginger Spice herself.

 

Louis Virtel I. There are few celebrities where I can remember specifically the first time I ever saw them. I remember her doing an interview with them, you know, 1997 when they happened. Kind of when I’m first becoming aware of music and pop culture altogether. And I think a lot of people of my generation, Spice Girls, really instigated that, you know, lifelong relationship. And just knowing immediately from the way she would like scream answers in an interview that she was rad as fuck. Like. Like, I’m like, oh, that’s like a fun adult, you know? Like, you know, that’s like kind of the age when you’re sort of like, does being an adult suck? And then you see people like Ginger’s Pace and you’re like, Fuck, yes, yes, I’m on my way. Yeah, I’m going to pinch Prince William’s ass, too. Or whatever she did. Prince Charles’ ass. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III It was very hard to call her Geri, during the interview.

 

Louis Virtel It was not hard for me. It was hard for you.

 

Ira Madison III Ginger. Anyway, she is here. And so we are also going to talk about our favorite, cause I don’t think we’ve had this conversation before, our favorite girl groups.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. Which is interesting conversation because and we’ll get into this girl groups, almost by definition are short lived. You know, somebody gets sick of it and then they break up or, you know, they only have a couple of albums. So I feel like they really concentrate their energy into making a couple of banger songs. And then generally speaking, they move on. But you’re left with these awesome songs ultimately.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And then there’s some weird ass dating shows on right now, Naked Attraction and The Golden Bachelor. Confusing to me because I didn’t know old people dated.

 

Louis Virtel Right? Or knew each other or spoke.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, but you tell me about it.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, great. Also, I mean, Naked Attraction is this long running show on British TV, and then they added it to maps somewhat surreptitiously, and then it became the most popular show on the network. So we’ll see. You know, do dating shows gain something from us? Just checking out a pair of balls before we make our decision? Who knows?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I think that’s just because and just like that. Isn’t Aaron at the moment. Sure.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Like, what else are we going to watch on?

 

Louis Virtel But honestly, Naked Attraction should be called And Just Like That, like, here it is. Dick. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III You just have J. Diaz wander through scenes, and it’s basically the same. All right. We will be right back with more. Keep It.

 

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Ira Madison III It’s truly crazy we haven’t touched on this topic in almost 300 episodes, and this is number 298.

 

Louis Virtel 300 fucking episodes. What are we, Gunsmoke?

 

Ira Madison III But as you should all know, we have a deep love and respect for girl groups and honor of today’s guest, the legendary Ginger Spice. We decided to do a tribute to girl groups and. Louis. Let me guess. Her favorite is the Shangri-la’s.

 

Louis Virtel No. Well, the secret doesn’t really only have leader of the pack. It’s not like a top tier girl group song for me. My favorite girl group. I mean, well, I will say Martha and the Vandellas are up there for me. Those are some. I mean, Dancing in the Street. That was the first girl group song I ever fell in love with because of you guys did Sweatin to the Oldies and.

 

Ira Madison III And Heat Wave, of course, which I first heard on several episodes of American Idol.

 

Louis Virtel No. If you want to get eliminated on American Idol, you better sing Heat Wave.

 

Ira Madison III Sing Heat Wave.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. You’re trying to get out of there. You’re like, I can’t be at CBS Television City one second longer. I want to do  Heat Wave.

 

Ira Madison III It’s one of those songs that I sort of I think I brought this up before with Bonnie Tyler’s holding out for a hero with the BPM as just a little bit faster than the other songs of that era.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III But I feel like whatever people try to sing Heat Wave, they can’t catch up with the lyrics.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, you’re right.

 

Ira Madison III It’s always like they’re chasing the song. Yeah, that’s like, maybe that’s. That’s why she got the Vandellas with her.

 

Louis Virtel They were fast dancing in the street, of course, written by Marvin Gaye, you know, before he emerged as a solo superstar. Just like.

 

Ira Madison III You know, Dancing in the Streets is pretty faggy, right?

 

Louis Virtel He did not strike me as in his name, right? Yes. Gotcha. Yeah. No, If I had to pick.

 

Ira Madison III The estates going to come after me now.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Right. I mean, it must be said, if we’re talking about hit rate of songs by a girl group, I mean, we’ll. I’ll bring up the Supremes who had the 12 number one hits. That’s important. I mean, you can pick a favorite song of theirs. Pussycat Dolls did not miss one time. Here’s the problem with the Pussycat Dolls and why I think they couldn’t last, though. They only made a star of one person in it. You know, I think the point of a girl group, generally speaking, if it’s going to last even a second, is everybody’s an avatar in the group, you know, like with Boybands, you know, like you had your personal favorite and you had your weird reasons for not picking Justin. You know what I mean? You’re like, I have to like Lance for personal, weird reasons. I don’t know that no.

 

Ira Madison III One ever said.

 

Louis Virtel That. I think that did exist. I think a certain woman who was, you know, a bit self-conscious about her good, you know, macho swagger would pick a Lance, you know what I’m saying. You had options.

 

Ira Madison III Is Grace Adler.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, precisely. Yes, if you will. If you  will.

 

Ira Madison III I get what you mean now, because people make jokes about Destiny’s Child. And there I was like, you know, Beyonce and them, you know, when people are being flippant. Yeah, but Beyoncé, Kelly, Michelle, each had a very distinct personality within Destiny’s Child. Right. With all three of them dead, but all three of them brought to the table. The Pussycat Dolls was very much Nicole Scherzinger telling those bitches, Do not sing into your mics.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Show up at dawn, learn the choreography and get out of my way. Yeah, But also, of course, there’s that famous behind the music where Nicole Scherzinger says the album was basically presented to the other girls who had not sung. And the implication was they didn’t sing on it, which is.

 

Ira Madison III Oh my God, I love that. It’s a. They heard the album that day. They came into the studio and we played the album for them. Do you understand what I’m saying?

 

Louis Virtel Also, I think that might be the last episode of Behind the Music and What I Know to Go. I have not heard a selling macro about it, but really like all of their singles, starting with Don’tcha, into Stick With You, into Buttons, which I think might be their single best moment, but that even like the ballad stuff, I hate this part, like great song. And then they try to come back with React, which is a song that is a nine, a ten, and we didn’t respect it. I don’t know why.

 

Ira Madison III Well, baby, people were dying.

 

Louis Virtel It was right at the beginning of Covid, yeah, you’re giving.

 

Ira Madison III That’s how I literally dropped that. The song literally dropped when Wuhan was like, Let’s get it poppin. Okay.

 

Louis Virtel He said, Wuhan.

 

Ira Madison III Wuhan said, Wait a minute.

 

Louis Virtel When I grow up into the coronavirus, I don’t want to hear any hits you’re giving the will afford excuse who is like, Oh, I wasn’t a big star because 911 happened. Obviously no one was in the mood for Will Afford anymore. That’s one of the crazier soundbites we’ve ever heard in our lives. But I bring this up all the time. One of my favorite girl group Songs of All Time is from a group called Boy Crazy, which came out in the early nineties British, and they had a song called That’s What Love Can Do, which sounds like it should be a Kylie Minogue song because the people who wrote the song are were Kylie Minogue’s primary songwriters before that. That is a pretty good name back. So I was too hard on Tension last week. I think it’s better than what you think, though it’s not my favorite of hers.

 

Ira Madison III I would say that I was too hard on it, but I have not listened to it all week.

 

Louis Virtel It does feel like she’s she needs to focus more on the hooks and less on the production, the ethereal quality of the production.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, there’s several songs on it that will get added to playlists of mine that I’m sure I will listen to again and reevaluate like I did with Kiss Me Once. But it’s it’s not capturing me.

 

Louis Virtel I know. You know, like I would say, like, kiss me once more than that. And I was never like a huge fan of that album that does have some bangers on it anyway.

 

Ira Madison III But if you are speaking of British Girl group, yes, obviously having a Girls Aloud is is iconic.

 

Louis Virtel You know.

 

Ira Madison III I just you.

 

Louis Virtel Know, it is, I think, central to a lasting girl group attitude because it’s like you ladies are coming together. You’re presenting a point of view. We hate men at the moment. All these things we love Call the Shots is the epitome of that feeling like we’re all strutting together and it’s about us having a good time and what man.

 

Ira Madison III And I also relate to not being able to speak French, but just letting the funky music do the talking.

 

Louis Virtel That’s sad. Sad that you would think that. But okay.

 

Ira Madison III Now I really like Girls Aloud. I mean, Sound of the Underground Love Machine. They really had a lot of hits and I mean, I had this whole period where I was like really into British grooves. I think it happened because of like, you know, the DJ, John Ali and you know, he used to have his blog on Ali’s blog and I feel like that was that middle like Twins era where when songs would be leaking all the time and like, so they would just be like, upload it like the day that they leaked and stuff. Like he was also mixing in like British pop, etc.. So that’s how I got into Girls Aloud and like the Saturday and.

 

Louis Virtel You basically have to be like formally educated on them though, because they do not deliver that music to us. Like you would not know what Girls Aloud is like. People still don’t know who. Cheryl Cole is here.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, people barely know Little Mix so. Right. I feel like every time I meet a British person, I’m like a gay out and I’m referencing a little mic song that is a black magic. They’re like, How do you know that?

 

Louis Virtel Which, speaking of girls, other girl groups, how do you feel about BLACKPINK? Do you roll with BLACKPINK?

 

Ira Madison III I was actually having this conversation with someone recently. So I’ve been down with K-Pop since late 2011 when I first discovered the group Secret. I love them. And so I’ve been in and out of K-Pop. You know, I think I’ve referenced before, like I’ve loved Red Velvet. You know, I’ve to anyone like I’ve loved K-Pop and BLACKPINK had this really big, bombastic moment and like this big sort of moment where, like, everyone was into them, they had the documentary, they’d done Coachella twice. They headline this year, and I saw them seeing them twice live. It’s just like the songs are sort of very much the same to me, and they’re all just sort of this like. How ya like that. And like a screaming and like a bomb and like a bombs going off. They’re all doing the same choreography. And that was good for like a big sort of moment. But I just don’t know where else it goes.

 

Louis Virtel This is kind of the epitome of what I’m talking about, by the way. Like it’s about attitude. And then you present the attitude and then there’s nothing really they as a girl group can do together, you know what I mean? Destiny fulfilled, if you will.

 

Ira Madison III But right now I’m sort of feeling like the people are really getting into like, I mean, you’ve heard of New Jeans, like Super Shy, fucking amazing song and E.T.A. from there. I think that, like, you know, like left whose the people who sang that song. It’s. And then. And then there’s Left, Right by XG. I feel like we’re getting into other K-Pop girl groups now. BLACKPINK. I feel like sort of kicked that door open.

 

Louis Virtel And of course, we love Sour Candy. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, of course. Did they? Or maybe it was Gaga because they released that banger ass song during the pandemic and then we never had it acknowledged ever again.

 

Louis Virtel Right. No, it’s my favorite thing they’ve ever done, I think. I do want to talk about Destiny’s Child for a second. I do think it’s unusual that they had these blockbuster albums. And then there to me, their two best songs were on their final and worst album, which is Lose My Breath and Soudier are, to me, are the epitome of attitude. And then also, like I love like the needing a man and then.

 

Ira Madison III Destiny Fulfilled is their worst album?

 

Louis Virtel Yes, You wouldn’t say so.

 

Ira Madison III Absolutely not. What I would I would put just their first one.

 

Louis Virtel With No, no, no on it.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Oh, I’ll see you listen to on that album.

 

Louis Virtel All right. Yes. No, no, no. Get on the bus. Yeah, Yeah. All right, all right. But that’s. That’s like saying, like, you know, Alanis Morissette’s Canadian albums are her worst. It’s, like, not even really part of the catalog, honestly.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, like, this just seems fulfilled. And then obviously, there’s writing on the wall, which is their best.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III And then there’s Survivor, which is really amazing. But I feel like Destiny Fulfilled is.

 

Louis Virtel That has Girl on it?

 

Ira Madison III Straight through. Lose My Breatg, Soldier, Cater To You, T-shirt.

 

Louis Virtel Cater To You.

 

Ira Madison III Is She The Reason.

 

Louis Virtel Neither of those okay.

 

Ira Madison III Through With Love, If. If, is that amazing fucking song. I love Destiny Fulfilled. That’s probably actually my second favorite Destiny’s Child album.

 

Louis Virtel All right.

 

Ira Madison III It’s one of the ones I actually listen to the most.

 

Louis Virtel Interesting. I mean, I do. I mean, I fucking love Soldier and also Lose My Breath. Yeah. The ladies dancing off each other.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Okay. That’s that real. That’s that real Negro spiritual talk. You don’t know nothing about that. You hear a Negro spiritual.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. And you.

 

Ira Madison III And you and Okay and you’re like, you’re calling out the dogs. I’m following the drinking gourd to Destiny Fulfilled.

 

Louis Virtel Excuse me?

 

Ira Madison III Okay.

 

Louis Virtel There’s singing Soldier down at the Delta. Excuse me.

 

Ira Madison III You thought Harriet Tubman was going to freedom. She was actually going to destiny.

 

Louis Virtel But I stand corrected or whatever that was. I love a history lesson. Drunk history? Help you.

 

Ira Madison III You cannot. You cannot turn on Through With Love and not just be like the Holy Ghost is in you, baby?

 

Louis Virtel Oh, okay. I’m going to actually have love.

 

Ira Madison III I finally found it in God. Come on.

 

Louis Virtel That And that’s that Michelle on her track and I need her to knock down track. And I’m.

 

Ira Madison III And I am. And I am like borderline agnostic, borderline atheist, raised Baptists. I don’t know what the fuck is going on in my brain, but what I hear praise music like that. I want to.

 

Louis Virtel Praise music. Actually.

 

Ira Madison III Praise music.

 

Louis Virtel . Can I tell you my number one? I’m about to use the word be. Do we have another word for that anymore? Okay. With Destiny’s Child. I’m sorry, but their most atrocious thing to me. Of course. I love that same child. Like, again, almost flawless single listing. Except their cover of Emotion by the Bee Gees Sucks. I hate that cover. Where is the sex in it? The Bee Gees, That’s about fucking. And we also have a lustrous hair.

 

Ira Madison III I feel like the Bee Gees version of Emotion is, you know, you’re drawing a bath to have sex in it.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, sure. Precisely. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III The the Destiny’s Child version of emotion. And you’re drawing that bath to never wake up from it. If you get my drift.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Ira Madison III It’s. It’s a suicide song.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III It’s very. It’s very. It is a very sad version of Emotion.

 

Louis Virtel No, I just.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, it’s like Emotions takeing me over. It’s like you sound depressed.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. I need Vyvanse. Emotions taken me over. Does it do Dixie Chicks or The Chicks count as a girl group? I think not. If you play instruments, I think that’s a different thing.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel TLC. See, that’s another good girl group because you could pick a favorite one. They all presented something different, and then collectively, they became more than the sum of their parts.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, they were sort of like The Plan of Tears. Yeah. You know, because Left Eye had fire.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Oh, she was Wheeler. Yes. Taking down her man’s house. Yeah. They all had water, which was cool. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I do love TLC. Let me tell you something, as big as TLC was, I’m going to bring up another song that got me in trouble and started me on my journey of really curating playlists and gauging the vibe of a party.

 

Louis Virtel Uh.

 

Ira Madison III I went bowling with some friends once in high school. And I put on Waterfalls.

 

Louis Virtel It’s a fun song.

 

Ira Madison III On the jukebox.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, but this is like the 1950s. You’re, like, putting. Okay, go ahead. You kicked it and you’re the Phonze. Okay.

 

Ira Madison III I was about to be tarred and feathered.

 

Louis Virtel Really? Why?

 

Ira Madison III Yes. I mean. I mean, I did go to this like all boys, like Catholic high school. And like, these were not the evil people. These were just like the nerds and the art school kids. We’re bowling, clearly. But they’re like, You’re bringing down the vibe.

 

Louis Virtel Excuse me. You know, I thought we all loved a mid-tempo jam about, you know, don’t get AIDS or whatever the message of the song is.

 

Ira Madison III I think that’s what it was.

 

Louis Virtel It really is the most mixed metaphor of of all time.

 

Ira Madison III The nineties really had a lot of songs that was sort of like, don’t do drugs, don’t have promiscuous sex, don’t get AIDS, but didn’t really say that. And so it was a lot of just, you know. What would you do if your son was at home crying on the floor? You know, it’s like a.

 

Louis Virtel Great question.

 

Ira Madison III Just like take an AIDS test. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Jesus Christ. Again, Which, by the way, that reminds me of Wilson Phillips, which has Wilson Phillips impulsive as my favorite Wilson Philip song. But again, in Hold On, when it seems to be empowering us and telling us to make good decisions, whatever, and to hold on for another day, and then suddenly they go into, you got yourself into your own mess, like Carnie Wilson is full of blame and she doesn’t even know me.

 

Ira Madison III I really just. No, hold on. Honestly, Like Wilson Phillips is a blood spot for me.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. They just they hit hugely in one year, so they were like 1990. And then that’s it. They had that, they had Released Me and Impulsive.

 

Ira Madison III But if you want to talk about some white women who were getting it all right. Exposed.

 

Louis Virtel Please. I suppose as white women, I don’t think I’ve ever seen them before.

 

Ira Madison III I think one of them doesn’t pass the paper bag test, but I think exposing is mostly white women.

 

Louis Virtel Got it. Also, a girl group that has long gone for.

 

Ira Madison III Seasons Change.

 

Louis Virtel That’s good one.

 

Ira Madison III I think that is that is a jam.

 

Louis Virtel A long forgotten girl group that actually got an entire sketch on SNL about them in the past few years that people forgotten about climax. They had the song meeting in the ladies room, but the best climax song is the men. All pause. I just want to say, first of all, that all these songs sound exactly the same. It’s crazy to pick a favorite, but the men all pause. I mean, again, attitude. Attitude is the thing that like, solidifies the reason we are listening to a girl group, you know, like we’re the bad bitches hanging out in the bathroom in high school, kind of bad.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, Meeting In The Ladies Room is one of the cuntiest songs.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Ever invented. I mean, it’s maybe about cocaine, maybe about boxing this girl for stealing a man. And I just need I just need people to hear the opening of this song. Because this is maybe one of the most iconic openings of song ever. So it’s just like it’s a spoken word. It’s like this this woman is telling your story before you get into the song. She’s like, Oh, I had to leave my condo to come to this. Well, I’m back, but this time I’m with my man. And these women are putting their hands all over his Yamamoto Kanzi sweater that I bought. And I’m much, much unhappy about that. And they had to come down to their level and become a big w a basic woman. But if they don’t stop, it’s going to get scandalous.

 

Louis Virtel By the way, a basic woman, it’s the mid eighties to use basic in that way. Have you heard of progress? Have you heard of a revolution?

 

Ira Madison III By the way, a side note about exposé that brings it back to my vested interests. Later, in their later years, Kelly Moneymaker joins Exposé and Kelly Moneymaker as a singer who is married to Peter Rachal, who plays Bo of Bo and Hope on Days of Our Lives.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, wow. You took me on a journey. There I was.

 

Ira Madison III And she later started recording music for this show when soap operas ran out of money to pay for real songs.

 

Louis Virtel Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it, got it.

 

Ira Madison III You look at like eighties nineties clips like soap opera couples, like where they were fucking to like Stephanie Mills and, you know, like, like and you know, caught up in the Rapture by Miss India, you know, like, but now it’s like royalty free music. Mm.

 

Louis Virtel I just want to say bit by bit by Stephanie Mills from the Fletch soundtrack. Really good. Also, you know what is a contender for me Best Girl group song of all time Because you’re right, attitude is one thing, Conte is another. And we rarely get that from girl group. But when we do, I’m so thankful. Vanity Six, Nasty girl. Come on now you are one. That song comes on. You are ass to the floor.

 

Ira Madison III I would say that. What are the greatest things that Beyoncé has done for us? Is. The multiple samples of Vanity Six’s nasty girl that she’s put into songs because as of yet, you still can’t fuckin stream those songs, right?

 

Louis Virtel It’s mysterious. And then Denise isn’t with us to explain what happened to Vanity six. So there you have it.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. So, I mean, because that is just those are just such massive songs that I feel like so many people would love. And we should be hearing more. But you can’t hear them.

 

Louis Virtel No, When I saw Prince in Concert 2011, I was excited to hear all of his songs, of course. But when he played a split second of Nasty Girl, Please, I suddenly I was wearing a blazer and leotard like Denise. And I was absolutely shaking and shaking. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III You know who we have not mention? Who is one of the top selling girl groups of all time.

 

Louis Virtel Come on, Andrew. Sisters.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. The Andrews Sisters.

 

Louis Virtel The Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy. You know what? He brought itere. He came with the bugle and he blew it. No, who ?

 

Ira Madison III Like 3LW.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, sure. I’m sorry. Unfortunately, they are most well known for having a fight in a KFC now. I’m sorry. It overshadowed the music. I’m sorry. Sometimes scandal overshadows the music.

 

Ira Madison III That is the most hilarious group breakup I have ever heard.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. Natori Naughton, very talented. I enjoy Naturi Naughton.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I love her. Great. In the Playboy Club.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, Yes, yes, yes. Definitely. Natori Naughton and also in the remake of Fame, where she played the Irene Cara part. And then, of course, Irene Cara was in the original Sparkle, another movie about a girl group that is a lot darker than the even version with Jordin Sparks and Whitney Houston, where Whitney Houston has a moment where she talks about passing away in a bathtub. I can’t believe they kept that in the movie.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. We were doing a lot in 2012, you know.

 

Louis Virtel Confusing time. Confusing time, anyway. Tell us your favorite girl group songs. I’m sure there’s stuff we missed, but actually we had a good we had a good number of coordinates here. I’m happy with that.

 

Ira Madison III Speaking of Jordin Sparks, I saw Pearly Victorious last week, which is the update of Pearly, the original musical that hadn’t been on Broadway, I think, in about 60 years. Maybe it stars Leslie Odom, Jr. Justin Guarini was there. And I got to tell you, I thought he was great in Once upon one more time that Britney Spears musical. He was truly the best part of that. I’m sad it closed, actually, because it was stupid and fun. And there was a woman sitting behind him and I thought it was Jordin Sparks the entire time in the show. And I was like, It’s very weird that they’re not talking. I know that they’re on different seasons, but don’t they all know each other.

 

Louis Virtel And like, they’re in a society.

 

Ira Madison III You know, like the original Power Rangers? No, like the ones who were on Zeo. Yeah. You know.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, yeah, there’s a club.

 

Ira Madison III And then I realized that it was Jurnee Smollett. Jurnee Smollett was Jordin Sparks for an entire Broadway show. And now I’m wondering what’s wrong with me or if that is a thing or if they’ve been confused before.

 

Louis Virtel Hmm. Eve’s Bayou, you need to check yourself. Okay. Get it together. This is what you bring up. Know I blame you. Oh, wait, I forgot. One more girl group song. I love The Crystals, He’s A Rebel. What a great song. Great song.

 

Ira Madison III Uh huh.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Anyway, send us your faves. And now we’ll be right back with arguably aside from maybe Diana Ross and Beyonce, the greatest girl grouper who ever was, Geri Halliwell Horner.

 

Ira Madison III Our guest today has been part of the pun spice of our lives for generations. And she has not stopped for a second. She’s not just a transcendent musician. She’s a world changing icon in her own right. She’s also the accomplished author of the Eugenia Lavender series and is back with a new magical and mysterious novel, Rosie Frost and the Falcon Queen. We are honored today to be in the presence of a Ginger Spice, herself, Welcome to Keep It, Geri Halliwell-Horner.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner Hello. Wow. What an entrance. Thank you very much. It’s lovely to be here.

 

Louis Virtel There’s something even just about your speaking voice that is energizing off the top. I’m like, Oh, my God, She’s here. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Can you tell us a bit about how you first came to writing? Was like reading and writing something that kept your time. You know, when you are on tour, when you’re on the bus or something, or did you come to writing later in life?

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner No, actually, because my mom’s out work and we didn’t have a lot of money. So I was always loved books because with books you can sort of go anywhere, go on big adventures. And you know, when everyone else has been on a real holiday. So that’s what I loved about getting a book from a library. And then I studied English literature before music. And so I, I always felt confident, you know, during my music career with the power of words, you know, I knew I was no Mariah Carey, but I felt more confident in the writing. And so I always loved it.

 

Louis Virtel I mean, you’ve been a children’s author now for years and years. And by the way, when I said children’s book, I mean, this is a 450 page book. I mean, it’s not it’s not like there’s six pictures in it and the book is over. This is like a book book. Over the years, what have you learned about what kids appreciate in a book? How have you? Have you gotten to meet a lot of kids through your work and take it in their sort of insight?

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner Yeah, I always think. Audience first. And just to be clear, this book. Yes, it is if you’re ten, but it’s also, you know, if you 25 or 35 or 45, it’s ageless, timeless. This a good book is anyone. And that’s what I endeavored to do with it. But also, I think, you know, to not to patronize a kid just because they’re younger is not this much smarter than you think. And so the first few drafts, I think I gave it to my goddaughter and she said, I want my hero to be badass. Sorry for swearing. I know. I just thought. Listen to listen to that. You know, she’s your reader. And I just think kids are smarter than you think. You know, we all get a little bit insulated by life experience and want one handed. Listen. So this book is for everyone. My husband’s read it and he’s not a reader. And he was like, Oh, it’s much better than I thought.

 

Louis Virtel Oh no, any.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner I don’t have that. Next.

 

Louis Virtel Any book that has a character screaming these these shoes are Prada. That’s for not just kids, that’s for me. So I’m happy to be here.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner Okay. There’s a character called Ottilie. And I always like to, like, smash things together. So I’m, you know, it’s based on a an island bloodstone, which is like Jurassic Park, but for endangered animals. And and there’s a school there. So which it was built 500 years ago by Queen Elizabeth, passed in honor of her late mother, Anne Boleyn, who was just incredible. But she got shamed by being small and incredible. But Queen Elizabeth built the school and her heirs instead of having children, she says. Right. These pupils, they’re going to be my as smart kids. And in 500 years later, you’ve got Rosie set in there and there are all sorts of people, and one of them is utterly and she is that typical Mingo archetype, which she you know, she’s sort of a you know, you’d see her. But, you know, they all they’re but they’re three dimensional characters that, you know, this person, you might see yourself in them and they all have their sort of and no one is good, no one is bad, no one’s perfect in this. And they all have their arc is an adventure story if you want it. Or you might find the power you never knew you had through it.

 

Ira Madison III Mm hmm. And, you know, meeting new, younger audiences, you know, through being an author, I guess. What do you feel you’ve learned about young, young women, young fans, of going from having such younger fans when you started in the Spice Girls to now having a newer, younger audience who reads your books?

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner What have I learned, is your question?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, just maybe, you know, just about what peop what, you know, young women consume or like what they like, what they’re like as fans.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner I think women, girls, boys, we’re more alike than different. And I really felt that actually, if you can see it, you can be it. So I felt really it was important to have characters in there that, you know, the boys is the character Charlie. You know, he’s strong, but he does cry. Boys do cry. And that’s okay. You can see you can bet. I bet the girls saved the boys, you know, So we were everything there and no one is perfect. And I think that’s much more a modern day hero that we can relate to. There’s no Alpha here. It’s a real story about finding the courage you never knew you had. And I think we, regardless of age, you can all relate to that. Yeah, I’m not perfect, but, you know, I’m trying.

 

Louis Virtel I have to say about you in this book, I noticed it’s full of these big personalities, too. And you I really can only think of Madonna to compare this to. And it is not lost on me that your child’s middle name is Madonna. That is not lost on me. That your personality right off the bat, when I first heard who you are, that must have been 1997, had this X-Factor quality of just like, oh, like she is the party, she is the energy like I am. So attract whatever is happening with her. I’ve got to follow what it is, music, whatever. And did you do you feel that like you had that quality your entire life? Like just there’s something kind of magnetic about you that people responded to or did you have to kind of come into your own?

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner That’s very flattering and thank you. You could be my mirror in the morning. No, I think when you’re younger, it’s just my experience and I don’t have the answers. And if anybody’s connecting with me, that’s useful and flattering for me. I think when I was younger, I had some of that, that teenage bravado. But actually it was America that taught me you’re allowed to follow your dreams. My mother was out at work and I was watching The A-Team, or it was actually Rocky and Charlie’s Angel. You allowed It doesn’t matter who you are, you’re allowed to go for it. You know, that sort of really global optimism. America gave me that. So it was like it was told to me like, Yeah, I can. I’m going to give this a go. And so the beginning it was like teenage bravado. And then I think through my thirties, I was like feeling a little bit wobbly. I’d fallen down, but I’ve always been very introspective and tried to to learn and connect. I find everybody interesting. Everybody’s got their story. I think as I’ve got older, I would say, you know, I’ve, I’m learning and I’m still learning it. I’m still getting it wrong. But if you stand in truth, your words have power. Like I it’s just my experience. That’s all I’ve got now is exposure experience. And so I think that’s that’s a nice quality to have is just like, yeah, this is me. You know, I don’t care whether you’re the postman or the president. Let’s just get on with it. You know.

 

Ira Madison III Speaking so much about, you know, the introspection in your writing. I wanted to ask you a bit, you know, if you still feel a bit angry about the leaking of, like your album, the your Country album, which was so personal in 2016, and whether that’s a project that you felt like you wanted to revisit or if the entire incident of it, you know, ending up online sort of made you want to move away from that?

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner You know, I can’t I, I think we have to learn to move on in life that way and stuff happens. I learned. And it’s hard, like rejection is God’s protection in a way. And it wasn’t how I’d planned it to happen. But I always love writing and and there’s no point being cross, is there? Like I’m learning if I’m cross. Someone said to me is like anger or resentment is like drinking poison and expecting them to die. The only person that’s going to eat, I’m going to suffer from that. So it’s it’s just like life happens, you know? So it’s one of those things. The other thing is who hasn’t made a mistake here? I’m always making mistakes and I cannot. Can we give each other grace? That’s quite nice thing, isn’t it? A little bit. The price is quite nice.

 

Louis Virtel Also, I just think about how much you’ve been through in your career. The like like unbelievable highs that even extremely successful artists can like. The level you’ve achieved is just so extreme. And I’m wondering, who do you even relate to in the universe? Like who do you think? Like, oh, I, you know, as Geri Halliwell Horner that person understands where I’ve been or where I’m going.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner Anyone really? Because I think it’s on a human level, I suppose. I think the reality is, is that this is the truth in my experience, that if you put ten people together for multiple walks of life. We’re more like the different. You, you know, after I’d know. 10 minutes. Yeah, you can go. Oh, I’ve experienced this. But I think we all just want to connect. We’re all a little bit frightened. We all want to be loved. So basic, fundamental things are the same. But I, you know, I always look, you know, from from the past. You know, I love Maya Angelou. She’s amazing. She it was incredible the way she she did a number of things. And she gave us permission that you’re allowed to you know, she wrote, she danced, she sang. She you know, she was a philosopher. She was a writer. So, you know, I was a lot of the times I’m from the past. We can learn from the future as well.

 

Ira Madison III Are there any other authors like Maya Angelou whose works might have been particularly inspiring for you when you, you know, really learned to love literature?

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner Now I can read anything and enjoy it for what it is. I also respect anybody that’s given it a go. It’s not easy. It really is. But what I do like about it is that you do get to in a world where, you know, what control do we really have? You know, we can’t control whether someone like us, the weather, whether the relationship goes our way or the job goes our way. But when you write, you get to decide who lives, who dies, who lives, who dies, all sorts of things. It’s quite liberating. Yeah. So I read and this is not his style of writing that I do, but he wrote this book is Stephen King of How to Write. And there’s some tips in there that I used.

 

Ira Madison III That’s one of my favorite books. Yeah, it’s good writing.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner Yeah, it’s really useful because he told me it’s about locking yourself in a really dark room so there’s nothing that can pull you out, which is really interesting. So you write as well?

 

Ira Madison III Yes. My first book actually comes out next year in June, so it’s about.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner Amazing. What ‘s it called?

 

Ira Madison III Pure Innocent Fun. So again, Pure, Pure, Innocent Fun. Random House is publishing. Yeah.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner Amazing. And what’s it about?

 

Ira Madison III Essays about me In high school. I went to a sort of all boys Catholic high school in the nineties and early 2000s. So

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner That sounds really good. Really.

 

Ira Madison III I hope so.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner Yeah. Having a go is not easy because lots of people procrastinate or are scared because it’s very vulnerable writing. It’s like putting your heart, you know, and saying, Do you like me? It’s like really being showing yourself. That sounds. And I think that the best things are when a real hero is when you’re vulnerable, that that’s important, that’s modern day, you know, no airbrushing. So well done, you. I’ve tried to do that with Rosie, so. Yeah, the same.

 

Louis Virtel Speaking of Maya Angelou, who was at one point a Tony nominated actress, you from time to time appear in you act like semi-regularly. And is that a similarly vulnerable process? How naturally does acting come to you?

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner I started acting when I was and pre music and the kind of I Stanislavski and I also studied when I was in Los Angeles my thirties. And so and it’s kind of like being the paint in someone else’s picture. And the kind of acting that I like to do is quite real. And so it’s a privilege, but it is quite scary because know when you do it and if you’re working with really amazing people, then you know there’s no hiding. So yeah, it’s quite challenging. So and it’s particularly if you just love the story that’s to be involved with them.

 

Louis Virtel It’s interesting that you talk about vulnerability in writing and in acting, but like, would you say performing as a singer is like a different like you get to sort of inhabit a persona more. It’s not as vulnerable making.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner I think that’s different kinds isn’t yeah, different temperatures cause you can put on I think we all put on our Batman suit suit. I mean, we can all hide by light behind layers. To me, whether you work in a bank or, you know, or you put on your shirt and tie. If you’re on the stage, you can put on your sort of regalia to sort of and we can all hide behind that. But sometimes the most powerful things are when it’s just vulnerable. And I think sometimes that’s a bit of both.

 

Louis Virtel If it’s doable. Yes. If you can do both, that’s nice.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner A bit of both.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner I think that, you know, there’s room for everything then.

 

Louis Virtel You’ve now over the years have done so many different types of music. Do you have a what would you say was the most vulnerable making music to produce.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner I think probably my first album, it was a unconsciousness to it.

 

Louis Virtel Your solo album?

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner Yeah, I think so, because it’s nothing to hide behind, no bells and whistles and some of the stuff I look back, I think that was pretty brave. But there’s I think there’s a naivete with it as well. I think sometimes as you get older, you can be a bit more. Yeah. How old are you?

 

Louis Virtel Me? I’m 37.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner Okay. You look younger, actually.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, thank you. I’ll put that right on my tombstone that you said that. Thank you so much. But by the way, speaking of your first solo album, I think Look at Me is such a fabulous song to this day ahead of its time. I like the message of it. It’s like right in your face, too. There’s a lot to think about. And I’m wondering if you if that’s a particular feather in your cap, that song.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner I’m proud of it. Very much so, yeah. I mean. I think to script, you know, the writing of that. You know, I always think I’m writing in any way, whether it’s a song or a book, is not always a voice for the voiceless. We can express how people are feeling. So in Rosie, Rosie Fosse, these four rules are given. So Queen Elizabeth, she’s only three when when her mother gets executed. And her mother, she knows she’s going to die, gives her these four rules for if you had a chance. Look at this. And these four rules, I think timeless rules. And that can transcend to anyone. And so Queen Elizabeth first uses these rules and then, like, I can use these rules. You can use these rules. And the first one is have courage. The second one is United We Stand. Three is never give up. Serve your kingdom. The fourth one is which really is very in keeping with what the song look at means. The fourth one is to thine own self be true if you like it. Not these rules make up your own Shakespeare. So I think that messaging of be yourself. It’s timeless.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean that Louis is absolutely right. I mean, and that I still listen to. Schizophrenic. Yeah, honestly, I was. Honestly, I was spitting my cheek a lot to get out today, which is such a very fun song. And speaking of timeless to how if you love the fact that your cover of the Weather Girls song has just been such a truly like such a gay anthem for ever now.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner I mean, it’s pretty. I’m completely flattered. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. I mean, I you know, I’ve always had a lot of gay men in my life, so, um, and so I find that taste, you know, very flattering. They connect. And the way that goes is so that big thing is to take on, that’s all. That’s very nice.

 

Louis Virtel But also, that’s another way in which you’re like Madonna, in which, like, there’s never any question that this woman, new gay man, just like, like it’s like so many like stars have to, like, tell their fans like, oh, yeah, I’m cool with gay people. But I was like, you know, you absolutely know Geri Halliwell. Horner is like, up with the gays. Absolutely.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner I think if you have experienced any marginalization or felt any sort of, I don’t know in any way. So any difference if you just felt it? I don’t know. I always feel like anyone that feels, you know, they’ve had to overcome something and be brave about it. So I like it when everyone supports each other, even if I don’t understand to to me, no. I want to sort of extend my hand in yours and say, you know what? You’re brave. And so it’s all right. You can work it out sometimes. And I’ve seen this, you know, the pendulum swings in that direction, that direction before. It will just take in the middle and we have fine balance. I think, you know, when we go through those process of finding equality, I think it’s nice if we can have some support and grace with each other. Not perfect because we’re still learning.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner I don’t know.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I think maybe random question, then. Do you maybe remember the first time you stepped foot in? Sort of like maybe it was a performance, Just the Spice Girls did or something, like in a gay club or even just setting foot in one post Spice Girls, where you could just feel the energy of everyone in this room is realizing, Oh, my God, Jerry, Jerry is here. Ginger Spice is in this bar.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner I’ve been in a bar in New York where I was Alan Cummings. Do you know who Alan Cummings is?

 

Ira Madison III Yes. Yes.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Because you’re on the show.

 

Ira Madison III Yes.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner He took me in there. I think we sang at the piano. Uh huh. Just thinking. I’m very sort of. And I sense that very supporters in that community will find this. On one hand, you can have a stereotype of the flamboyance, but also the the tenderness and the strengths in there. So that duality, the mix comes through.

 

Louis Virtel Who would you say in the music universe you look look up to the most? Is there somebody you been at like a long standing fan of where you’re still like an intense fan to this day?

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner Well, I admire anybody that gets to know. I was listening to today was Billie Joel. My life.

 

Louis Virtel Of course.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner That’s just such a good, timeless, brilliant. And then I heard Stevie Nicks. She’s still going sing. Go on. But then I admire.

 

Ira Madison III They did a show together in Boston recently. Yeah, well.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner Good for them, you know? And they are such good writers. And then but then, you know, up and coming, I was looking at it was the Ice Spice. And I just, you know, I like her. It’s just something innocent and raw about what she’s doing. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Ira Madison III We can. We could make her, like, the honorary six Spice Girl. Ice Spice.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner Oh, there’s more than six. I think there’s a band of everyone in there.

 

Ira Madison III Well, thank you so much for being here.

 

Geri Halliwell-Horner My pleasure. And very nice to meet you both.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III The Golden Bachelor has premiered and people are loving it. Because you know what I love? Just grandparents huggng up on each other.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, please. Wearing like a tauny robe.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I watched it. I think it’s cute. I don’t know if I’m going to keep watching it. I don’t really have an appetite for The Bachelor. I tried briefly when they had the first black bachelorette, Rachel Lindsay, and then I watched a couple of the other ones, but I just sort of fell off. Like, it’s just not my flavor of reality show, you know?

 

Louis Virtel I just feel like that particular genre for me, like we peaked in terms of being too self-aware on camera, I think. And I don’t know, like the storylines on like Survivor where I feel like people find new ways to, like, manipulate each other and play the game and get better at the game, make the game better. This is like pretty standard. Like they as a specific type of personality, always signs up for this. Like you’re rarely going to find anything new or inventive in the in the format unless of course, there’s like an incredibly problematic person who emerges or something, you know. But that said, Golden Bachelor, that has more of a chance for me than the other seasons do, because I am interested in seeing old people on reality TV. Maybe they aren’t as self-aware as all these like 20 and 30 somethings who play the game all the time.

 

Ira Madison III That’s fair. These are probably people who applied for original seasons of the Real World and didn’t make it on the job.

 

Louis Virtel They’re older than that.

 

Ira Madison III But maybe.

 

Louis Virtel I guess it’s like.

 

Ira Madison III What’s the age of what’s the age of like, like if you’re like 60 on this show right now.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III You would have been 30, 30 years ago when The Real World premiered.

 

Louis Virtel But that’s. They were like 22 on that show. So I think like people like the first seasons of Real World are probably in their early to mid fifties.

 

Ira Madison III You can tell me it wasn’t 54.

 

Louis Virtel That was a man, I have to say. And we kept him.

 

Ira Madison III SO hot.

 

Louis Virtel On TV for quite awhile. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III You know what? You know what MTV should?

 

Louis Virtel The Grind.

 

Ira Madison III To bring back.

 

Louis Virtel The that’s it.

 

Ira Madison III Spring or spring break. Like, you know what?

 

Louis Virtel Spring break. Oh, my God.

 

Ira Madison III The dating shows. We’re going to get to dating shows, but I have to tell you that it’s actually weird. I mean, now that I’m in the, now that I’m in the edits. I can’t believe I didn’t run an essay about this, but one of parts of my gay awakening, truly, when I’m coming to terms with I’m attracted to men and you’re seeing them on TV. There was really nothing like turning on MTV in the summer and just seeing like hot guys dancing on the beach on spring.

 

Louis Virtel Break or like that time where they were like, they, they put like whipped cream on each other and they’re like, blowing up. Yes, Jesus catapult me through adolescence. Jesus Christ.

 

Ira Madison III Because Jerry Springer. Oh, it was like Springer-Break.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, right.

 

Ira Madison III Jerry Springer would host it and they would play like sexy games or whatever with each other. Definitely ones where people had to lick whipped cream off of men’s chest.

 

Louis Virtel Truly like was like what your your parent’s worst fear in terms of what my kids who are 11 and 12 watching. Worst fear shit.

 

Ira Madison III We would love to see a documentary of adults looking back at MTV’s Spring break footage of themselves and being aghast, but they’re kind of lucky that that’s at least one of those things that seems lost to time.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, and maybe even a little innocent. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Maybe it’s on YouTube somewhere. But if if you chances of your kid finding that or anyone else that you worked with, finding it now is probably pretty low.

 

Louis Virtel Right? Right. I know. I want the way we had that movie 54 about the studio 54 days. I want that same movie. But about Senor Frogs, you know, I want to know who was there getting the giant margarita who is getting up on the bar, maybe even the girls Gone Wild people. It feels like that kid that we could stand to hear an update about what happened to those people, too. But speaking of blurred nakedness, what’s notable about this new dating show Naked Attraction, which first of all, isn’t that new? It’s been airing in England for years. They pushed it on to Max and suddenly the most popular show on Max. And it is even though you are judging potential mates based only on how they look below the waist and a full frontal where I would describe it as a pretty quaint show. Like it’s not like people are not like horny to death on this show. Weirdly, it’s just like I’m observing a body. I have something to say about the body, and now I’m going to move you on to the next round.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. You know, it’s sort of like working at a funeral home in that respect, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Think you’re. Yeah, that’s right. You’re an embalmer looking for a new project. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I. It reminds me a little bit of one of my old favorite reality series. Hot or Not?

 

Louis Virtel Sure. Oh, God. Hot or Not.

 

Ira Madison III Bring that back.

 

Louis Virtel It does feel crazy to me that we haven’t brought back Next, which I think is just for. First of all, the dates are so short and therefore, like you keep your attention or whatever. But the brutality of eliminating people as they get off a bus, which by the way, is already a humiliating act. If you’re stepping down from a bus, you’re not looking like amazing, You know what I mean? So in that moment, if you are then eliminated, you just could not be any lower. And I have to and I’m not somebody who craves awkwardness in any media I don’t like, you know, I can’t even sit through the office for like there’s people are exchanging glances. I don’t like that shit here. It’s so awkward. I have to watch.

 

Ira Madison III Not exchanging glances.

 

Louis Virtel Next to us. I think the best of all those shows have, like, the Room Raiders and Parental Control and stuff.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, no, Next is definitely a show that I feel like could be brought back on. Tik Tok now. Yeah, right. It’s such a short show.

 

Louis Virtel Totally. Yeah. Also. But yeah, episodes can end in like, 30 seconds, right?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And the best part with the gay episodes where they get eliminated and then they just start making out on the bus with each other or something.

 

Louis Virtel I can’t explain that. I truly find that to be progressive television, just like we’re not going to change the format of this show at all to make it. You know, we’re not going to change the format of the show. Gays are as welcome here as straight people. And also. All right, whatever. Go fuck in the van. That’s great. Enjoy yourselves. You know, they just didn’t I. I don’t know. It was kind of rad.

 

Ira Madison III And he also got to see varying versions of gay stereotypes on the show.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, Jesus. And of course, it’s the mid 2000. So everybody has the swoopy ninth place American Idol contestant here.

 

Ira Madison III Yes. There’s always the skinny twinkish character who, if they are the person who is running the dates, they get to be bitchy about people when they get off the bus, but then they become the victims. Other times, if it’s a very masculine bro. Right. Is doing the dating, they’re like, Oh, he’s too fat for me. Like next, my favorites. And it didn’t happen that often. Gay or straight. When someone got off the bus and went Next themselves, they’re like Next.

 

Louis Virtel Done with this. It is it is like a weird proposition, like, Oh, I have to be forced to want this person, but they can eliminate me. Like, it’s so it’s so weird. It’s such a weird power dynamic.

 

Ira Madison III And if you hang out on the day, if you win, what do you get the most? You get a dollar for each minute you spend. The most people would be winning would be about $30.

 

Louis Virtel It’s pathetic.

 

Ira Madison III It’s it’s like $30 for the day.

 

Louis Virtel It’s literally like the dance marathon. And they shoot horses, don’t they? Just like, Oh, if you survive long enough, you’ll make $36.

 

Ira Madison III I think there was actually a Reddit thread about this once where someone who was on the show explained basically that this was also pre Instagram pre social media. Right? So. He said that it was stupid to not take the money at the end of these dates because even if you bond with the person, you’re never going to see them again. Right. Because MTV doesn’t arrange a second date or something. And if you’re in town for next or whatever, these people live in different cities. So you bond with someone in Cleveland and you live in Florida. Take the fucking money because you’re not going to see that person again. Maybe you’re gonna fuck them later that day, but you literally will not have another date with that person.

 

Louis Virtel Enjoy writing them a letter eventually or whatever. No, it also it gave me the feeling of like it was a lot of people who still live with their parents in the valley. Like, that’s exactly like that was the dating pool. Like, I have blond tips. I’m wearing 2 to 3 polo shirts. My my belt is spangled, and I’m talking about the gay contestants specifically. But to have that time immortalized that way. I mean, just Absolutely. Just the worst there. Oh, the swoopiest hair. The swoopiest hair.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, The double polos.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Right, Right. By the way, they play with this on Snatch Game of Love, but the original Dating Game is still a pretty good format, you know, where it’s like one person is asking questions with innuendo, two, three awaiting contestants and they can’t see them. They can only judge by their voices because I think secretly voice is key to attraction a lot of the time. So it’s sort of like there’s something about that really works.

 

Ira Madison III Also Bring back Singled Out we did a joke in booster Kiki on.

 

Louis Virtel Quibi.

 

Ira Madison III Quibi which you know didn’t anything happen on Quibi? Allegedly I allegedly wrote a TV show for Nicole Richie. No one’s ever seen it.

 

Louis Virtel Well, also with that particular single reboot, because it was on Quibi, it was so chopped down. You didn’t get to just watch like the guys and root for the guys and pick people. Like there was something about Singled Out that really fits a full half hour. Like you’re on a journey with these people and you pick a favorite and you see how you’re judging their dynamic. Will this relationship work?

 

Ira Madison III You know, I would actually sort of love in a concept for a dating show is we love a show like Big Brother, right? Yeah. And I like a show like Love Island. But Love Island sometimes gets a bit too boring for me and I tend to hate the show Mantis on Big Brother because one, it’s always just a boring straight couple, even when it’s someone fun people I like. Like Corey in America currently on Big Brother this season, it’s still weird because it’s happening in within the context of the other people playing the game. And then you cut to all this dumb showmance shit. I would love a blend of that where it is a competitive game, but there are more couples on the show, people attempting to create a relationship or bond or whatever. So you get the romance element of people getting to know each other and that sort of relationship building happening. But you’re also still playing a game that involves scheming and manipulating and voting people out.

 

Louis Virtel Which, by the way, reminds me of what I want, which is an all gay season of Big Brother. Just have a bunch of gay guys. And then like, there’s always the potential of a hookup element between these people who will then be backstabbing each other. I mean, it’s going to be murders. You want people to be killed on television, right? When you see these shows, you know, I’m I’m thinking like I’m running the television network in the movie network. Right. We want like the maximum carnage. And I feel like that. How has that not been done, particularly in like England, where they just air whatever, like nothing is homophobic on television over there, Right.

 

Ira Madison III Not CBS because they don’t want gay people having sex on live feeds.

 

Louis Virtel That’s what I mean. I mean, like we discussed this before, I believe, with Roxane Gay, like they never have multiple gay people there. And I realize that’s because if there’s a gay relationship, they would have to air it, you know?

 

Ira Madison III Yes. And there’s also the idea that, you know, people would be hooking up and they would break up couples, etc., or they just swap partners. That’s why people say that a love island or something wouldn’t work with gays. But I do think it would because one. A show like Love Island. The concept is you have to be in a couple and then America is voting or the UK is voting. The people watching the show are have a heavy part in deciding who wins. Right. Yes. And so. If you are constantly swapping from person to person, then you’re not going to look good to the viewing audience. There is an incentive to pick a partner and sort of stay with them. And also, is the implication that there wouldn’t also be people who are very much hard line monogamous or just have a different view on dating or whatever. So I think that that would be a very interesting way to watch different versions of gay people on TV. But, you know, it reminds me of one of my favorite shows that I feel like we should bring back, which is Boy Meets Boy.

 

Louis Virtel I don’t think I ever saw an episode of that. Is that Bravo?

 

Ira Madison III Yes, it was Bravo. It was a basically a bachelor where a gay guy had a pool of gay men to date and he had to pick one and was eliminating one each episode. But the twist was half of the men were straight.

 

Louis Virtel Diceptors.

 

Ira Madison III Yes. And so.

 

Louis Virtel Infiltrators.

 

Ira Madison III If you picked a straight guy at the end. The straight guy won all of the money.

 

Louis Virtel And that’s so insane. Also, I think I think there should have been even a darker twist, like the the straight guy gives them a phone and says, you have to come out to a homophobic relative.

 

Ira Madison III But I think that’s a fun concept for a show.

 

Louis Virtel I mean, there was something in the 2000s where we had all these reality shows because people discovered how cheap they were to make, You know, VH1 is flourishing, MTV is flourishing. All these cable networks are doing well and they’re just trying shit out. You know, They’re just like, oh, we made this this guy do this. What if I feel like it was such a gonzo time?

 

Ira Madison III Gay, Straight or Taken?

 

Louis Virtel Right. Again, I want to say.

 

Ira Madison III That one.

 

Louis Virtel Too. Tila Tequila for a time was something you wanted on television based on what happened in the 2000s.

 

Ira Madison III They had that one queer season of Are You the One? My friend Remy was on it.

 

Louis Virtel That was good. I watched that.

 

Ira Madison III But they never made another one.

 

Louis Virtel So maybe we weren’t good enough for it. Are you the one Society? No, you aren’t.

 

Ira Madison III Baby, MTV was just like, Let’s keep airing Ridiculousness all day.

 

Louis Virtel A plan that apparently is working for them or doing something for them because it is ongoing.

 

Ira Madison III All right. When we are back, it’s time for Keep It. And we are back with our favorite segment of the episode. It’s Keep It. Louis.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Ira Madison III What’s yours?

 

Louis Virtel I’d like to be formally asked before I launch into it. My Keep It. This came out like last week or so, but Alicia Keys, who has won. Also quite a few Grammys. Quite a few. So I would associate her with creativity, with, you know, about me today. So I associate her with creativity and, you know, not infuriating us with. Choices she makes creatively. Until now.

 

Ira Madison III I know you haven’t associated her with vocals.

 

Louis Virtel No, she is an alto who would like to be other things. And some should say she should remain an Alto, moving on.

 

Ira Madison III Great performer. Songwriter.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, exactly. Young performer. Quote, Aretha Franklin. As first reported on by TMZ. There’s an application waiting to be assigned to an attorney for a trademark for her new T brand, Alicia Teas. Sometimes there’s like puns that you just say them and it hurts your feelings. I say, I listen to you and I’m frowning. You can hear the frown. Come on. It’s just. It’s. Wait. It’s too sad to say. Alicia Teas. And then I was like, Who would propose something like Alicia Keys? And then I remembered this woman named herself Alicia Keys. She named herself. That’s not her name. She plays the piano. She calls herself Alicia Keys. This is like the dirtiest human act of all time. And now she’s taking it a step further. She’s like, I love this pun so much. I’m Alicia Teas now, darling. Or should I say, Darjeeling, You’ve gone too far.

 

Ira Madison III What’s funny is her real name is Alicia Cook. So imagine she became a chef. She wouldn’t have had to change her name.

 

Louis Virtel Right?

 

Ira Madison III Alicia Cooks.

 

Louis Virtel That would be cute.

 

Ira Madison III That would be cute.

 

Louis Virtel She could do her signature and then just add, like, a red S at the end.

 

Ira Madison III I personally love the name Alicia Teas. That’s very on brand for me.

 

Louis Virtel Actually, it is better than what Cher called her gelato company, which is Cher Lotto. I just have this feeling Cher knows gay people and knows people who can do a better job than that.

 

Ira Madison III So, Cher, a cone.

 

Louis Virtel Anything, Right. Cher and Cher alike.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Interesting.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, I don’t. And also.

 

Ira Madison III Had an ice cream company.

 

Louis Virtel By the way. Yes, it’s new. And then they had trucks go around L.A.. By the way, did we hear that Cher may have hired somebody to kidnap her own son to prevent him from getting into being engaged to somebody?

 

Ira Madison III I did hear about that. I did not investigate further because I feel like, is Sarah hired anybody to kidnap someone? She was probably doing the right thing. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel I trust her judgment also. Yeah, I would love it if the guy jumps out of the van to do the kidnaping and then he too slaps him and says, Snap out of it. Which is sounds like what would be a sound twice.

 

Ira Madison III We call that a moonstruck gang. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Officer, I was moonstruck. Ira, what is your Keep It this week?

 

Ira Madison III My Keep It goes to N’Sync.

 

Louis Virtel I saw them on Hot Ones, which I was actually a little bit of a bastard towards last week. Hot ones as a five. Sure. Go ahead.

 

Ira Madison III Ira. You were. You were rude as hell.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. It’s just the cadence of the questions I don’t make. It’s. The questions themselves are great.

 

Ira Madison III I have to say. Keep It in sync, because unfortunately. I like another song from the from a fuckin Trolls soundtrack. What are we gonna hear now? The Trolls three even troll-ier. Whatever the name of this fucking movie is.

 

Louis Virtel Trolling of Iglesias.

 

Ira Madison III It is very. Can’t stop the feeling coated. Sure starts out with one of the worst things in music. A whistle tone. I know gay is like that Hilary Duff Sparks song which has the whistles in it. They’re constantly talking about it on Twitter like there’s no other song that’s ever been created by a white woman. But it starts with a whistle and it it gets into, you know, a a boppy beat. It’s very happy. It’s very cheerful. That man. It’s just so nice hearing their voices again. And it’s nice hearing Justin singing a pop song again and, you know, not trying to be Morgan Wallen or whoever the fuck.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. RIght.

 

Ira Madison III And I just. It’s just it’s a very it’s a nice song. It’s not a good song. I mean, some of the lyrics in the second verse are something like you like the bass down low, You like it nice and slow. I want to lose control. Oh, fucking wrote that.

 

Louis Virtel It does feel a bit mid-Nineties R&B, Montell Jordan or something.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, Yeah, it’s okay. We’ve heard this collection of lyrics before. It almost feels like it was chat heated.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right.

 

Ira Madison III It sounds good. I’ve been listening to it on fucking repeat all morning, actually.

 

Louis Virtel Do they all sound good? I mean, does everybody saying, Oh, that’s nice, they sound great.

 

Ira Madison III And it kind of makes me even angrier now because are we getting something else They’ve been doing Hot Ones.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, we must.

 

Ira Madison III They did MTV. I need a to any reunion tour. I need a Vegas residency. I’m going to need a real album, though. And if I’m going to get a real album, I don’t want it to sound like this. This is cute for one song, but we need Timbo. We need Pharrell back.

 

Louis Virtel Space Cowboy, Please come back. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Kandi Burruss. Yeah. We need your pen game again. Okay.

 

Louis Virtel There was a rumor for a moment that NSYNC was going to be a part of the Super Bowl halftime show. Obviously now it’s going to be Usher. And to be fair, we don’t know who Usher is going to bring out, but it’s Usher for now.

 

Ira Madison III And I hope he’s not bringing out Justin Timberlake.

 

Louis Virtel I would assume that’s not the case. Correct. But it did strike me funny at the time because In-Sync being at the Super Bowl does make kind of sense. But I have to say, if you live in West Hollywood, you literally just see Lance Bass out every weekend. And I was just like, wow, this guy can just be upstairs at a bar in West Hollywood most nights of my life. And now he is the headliner at the Super Bowl. What a crazy life like, I believe.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, we talked about drone groups this week, but. N’Sync, that’s my life. N’Sync. N’Sync was for me. N’Sync was my. Was was my group like I fucking loved N’Sync so much.

 

Louis Virtel I can’t even pick a favorite band I kept because like, also that gets a little like with girl groups. There weren’t many where they played instruments, but for instance, like Hanson, they played instruments and I would still call them a boy band, you know?

 

Ira Madison III I’m not listening to no fucking Hanson.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, they had the songs. I don’t want to hear that. I want to say.

 

Ira Madison III Sorry, I do not. I do not like Mm Bop, but I don’t. I don’t like it. I’ve never liked it. I don’t want to hear it.

 

Louis Virtel I don’t. I’m not a performer on this podcast anymore. Goodnight.

 

Ira Madison III What the. What the fuck are they even saying in that song?

 

Louis Virtel Oh, honey, let’s not even get into their iconic SNL performance. One and two sketch with Helen Hunt. Where they are. She gun. She holds them at gunpoint in an elevator and says, Are you aware that the song Mm BOP has been played 25 million times this year? Yeah. Helen Hunt holding you at gunpoint? Yes, that is television.

 

Ira Madison III Paul Reiser actually talked about that. But we have to cut it from the episode for legal reasons.

 

Louis Virtel He was scared.

 

Ira Madison III Threatened to sue.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III If she’s going to come after me, take that out.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. I need to listen to the song, though. I haven’t heard it yet. So.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, it’s called Better Place.

 

Louis Virtel All right. All right. You know what? When the Backstreet Boys were back last, that was pretty good, too.

 

Ira Madison III It was. It was. And I mean, the chorus is also very like, I don’t care if the world spins faster, like, let me take you to a better place. I think it’s about global warming.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, sure.

 

Ira Madison III I think it’s about escaping this dying planet to go to space. Where the space cowboys are.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, yeah,.

 

Ira Madison III Yippee ya yo yippee ya yay.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. We had the same vision. Get to the Space Cowboys.

 

Ira Madison III But not that movie.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, absolutely not. Now, that was the first movie that came out when I was in high school. That was summer of 2000. I’m like, Well, that’s what we’re doing. Tommy Lee Jones Not right, actually. That’s funny because he’s a big dick. So I put him in movies like Space Cowboys just to fuck with them.

 

Ira Madison III I this is like the second week in a row that you’ve referenced Tommy Lee Jones being an asshole.

 

Louis Virtel Everybody knows that. That’s not it’s not new information. He isn’t his big dick.

 

Ira Madison III I don’t think I really know anything about him. Besides the fact that he was in Batman and The Fugitive.

 

Louis Virtel Look at him in the audience of any award show, and you’ll never see somebody having a worse time. It’s like, Girl, have some fucking champagne. You’re like, sitting next to Annette Bening or something. We’re all having a good time. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Well, I guess that’s our show this week.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, we kept it not current this week. We didn’t even bring up Taylor being at a football game again. Which, by the way, guys, is boring. I know you guys want it to be exciting. She just is standing there, and then now she’s standing next to Blake Lively, who has to pretend to know what football is to. She doesn’t care.

 

Ira Madison III I almost made it my Keep It this week, but I just don’t want to talk about it.

 

Louis Virtel I know there’s nothing to say.

 

Ira Madison III I it’s. It’s very who cares?

 

Louis Virtel What am I looking at? Why are you so excited? Also, wasn’t the real story that Hugh Jackman was potentially there next to Anthony. That’s news. Excuse me. The Today Show. Can we get on this? TMZ?

 

Ira Madison III Anthony, come back. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, my God. Our friend Anthony. Yes. Please come back on the show and talk about guac and this.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, we’ll talk about. Talk about anything. Yeah. And this, you know. But, yeah, I don’t want to talk about like this. I have. I was entertained at first, but now I feel like it is all people are talking about. And I know this summer there was the Heiress tour and people kept talking about that and it made sense because she was on tour and everyone was going to the concert. It was a very big moment this summer, but now it just feels very snake eating its own tail. Yeah, the media is just constantly talking about her and that is why we’re talking about her.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Ira Madison III Also, we’re talking about her because you’re talking about her.

 

Louis Virtel Mm hmm. It’s one of those things also where I have to give the woman credit when your whole game is related ability and like you to stick with that for years and years and years. She has really gotten the fans to be like, literally, if she’s laughing, people are like, I laugh, too. That’s so relatable. Like, it’s like, Oh, they’re so obsessed with the micro occurrences. Just seeing this woman exist that it’s like, intriguing no matter what she does. It’s actually it’s it’s an impressive long game. If she did this on purpose.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, it is a it is akin to white women eating a salad, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Right.

 

Ira Madison III Just do you remember that website?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. As in the Getty Images thing?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. White women eating salad. It was a it was during that era of websites where websites were meme, like, memes were on, like, a whole website was a meme.

 

Louis Virtel Got it, Got it, Got it. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III You know, like blackpeopleloveus.com. Chelsea Press. Jonah Peretti. Right. Their Web site it’s. But then, you know, memes broke free.

 

Louis Virtel Thank you for that history lesson. Thank you.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, well, that’s the Alicia tee for the week.

 

Louis Virtel Hey. Hey. You know, we’ve gone ooh long this episode, and now we need to get out of here.

 

Ira Madison III You’re killing me.

 

Louis Virtel I already did a Darjeeling pun. Move it along. The Darjeeling Limited. Honey, we already have a.

 

Ira Madison III Thank you to Geri Halliwell-Horner for being here this week. And we’ll see you next week. Keep It as a Crooked Media production. Our senior producer is Kendra James. Our producer is Chris Lord and our associate producer is Malcolm Whitfield. Our executive producers are Ira Madison, the third and Louis Virtel.

 

Louis Virtel This episode was recorded and mixed by Evan Sutton. Thank you to our digital team, Meghan Patzel and Rachel Gaewski, and to Matt DeGroot and David Toles for production support every.

 

Ira Madison III Week and as always, Keep It as recorded in front of a live studio audience.