"Bringing Down the Harry House" w. Danielle Pinnock | Crooked Media
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February 08, 2023
Keep It
"Bringing Down the Harry House" w. Danielle Pinnock

In This Episode

Ira and Louis discuss Beyoncé’s snub and everything else that went on at the Grammys. Guest Danielle Pinnock joins to discuss her role on CBS’ Ghosts and also provide boots on the ground tea from attending the Grammys. Plus, 80 for Brady, Cannes Grand Prix winner Close, AMC’s new tiered ticket pricing, and more.

 

TRANSCRIPT

 

[AD]

 

Ira Madison III And we are back with an all new episode of Keep It. I’m EGOT winner Ira Madison, the third.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, you’re Vio-Ira Davis. That was the pun I could drive just in time. I’m Louis Virtel. That was very joyful to see her win that, Violal Davis now an EGOT winner thanks to the audiobook of her memoir. And she was the only one in the category who had not previously won a Grammy before. So it’s only fair that she would win. And also, you know, that audiobook is fucking Slay. I mean, imagine her half assing it audiobook. You can’t.

 

Ira Madison III I read every speech that Viola Davis gives. Sounds like the Sermon on the Mount. So I’m sure that her audiobook is, you know, iconic. I also want to shout out the fact that she is a Tony winner for acting.

 

Louis Virtel For Viola Davis? Yees. Correct

 

Ira Madison III Which means she has. She’s a competitive EGOT in all four categories.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, no, she didn’t like. She’s not one of 175 producers on, you know, Oklahoma two or whatever.

 

Ira Madison III Right. Which is not a knock at J.Hud, because shout out to her because she’s like she started out on Broadway, to be honest, anyway. But, you know, it is exciting to see her get an eagle, which, by the way, Meryl does not have.

 

Louis Virtel Meryl is only halfway to EGOT.

 

Ira Madison III Yes. Well, she she has even been on the Great White Way.

 

Louis Virtel Not she is a Tony nominee. In the seventies, she was nominated. And but Grammys, I mean, she has a pathetic record, frankly. Yeah. Get back in the studio. You know what I’m saying?

 

Ira Madison III Can she narrate something?

 

Louis Virtel I know. Again, pick up some Kipling. It’s just not that hard. There are all these books out there waiting to be read again. This is always, I say, my problem with Jeremy Irons, who’s missing a Grammy. I’m like, You are. Your middle name should be audio book. This makes no sense.

 

Ira Madison III What I’m actually excited for in terms of upcoming audiobooks. Did you see that? Barbara announced, announced her memoir today?

 

Louis Virtel Oh, I did not. And also, she’s been teasing that for a hundred years. I interviewed her once in a junket for The Guilt Trip, and she talked about investing.

 

Ira Madison III Iconic film.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Yes. Actually, you know what? Guilt Trip is not kind of unlike 80 for Brady, which I saw this week. And maybe we’ll get into that. But at the time, she was talking about growing up in Brooklyn, as Barbara fucking does, since every time anybody interviews Barbra Streisand, you have to hear about her childhood because that’s what superstars are obsessed with doing, telling you they came from somewhere.

 

Ira Madison III I’m just Italian girl from New York City. That’s you know, that’s where Gaga got it from. Yeah, right, right, exactly. With their childhoods.

 

Louis Virtel No kidding. Oh, we’ll be hearing about that for the rest of time. But I cannot wait to read that, though. Obviously.

 

Ira Madison III We got a we got to scam Babs onto Keep It.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, my God. I’m already planning. Well, first of all, do you know Barbara loves a little snack, so wherever she is, we got to put out a Kit-Kat for her to eat, and then maybe that’ll get her in the studio.

 

Ira Madison III I’m here in New York, too. I feel like I’ve worked with enough, like people who are actually friends with her, which is shocking. So it’s time to start calling in some favors.

 

Louis Virtel I will say, why am I not hanging out with Jason Gould again? I feel I’ve done the work. Or Elliott Gould. He’s around.

 

Ira Madison III Or Ellie Goulding.

 

Louis Virtel She’s great too. Actually she has four bangers, as far as I’m concerned.

 

Ira Madison III Well, she is. Her new album is coming out with she she her album was delayed because she went back to the studio with Calvin Harris because she was like, you know what the people need? Bangers.

 

Louis Virtel Right. I guess he does deliver on that front. My lasting memory of him now is Lena Dunham mentioning that he was her least favorite of Taylor Swift’s boyfriends. And sometimes I forget, even though Girls was amazing, Lena Dunham can really bring with a quote.

 

Ira Madison III My other favorite about him being one of Taylor’s boyfriends, is that where she dropped like the Reputation Era album, not a single song about him.

 

Louis Virtel Interesting. Also, have we done the dramaturg on that? We’ve gone through each song and we’re positive?

 

Ira Madison III I you know, I’m in some Swiftyy corners of the Internet.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. Which is by the.

 

Ira Madison III I’ve seen some TikToks.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. I keep finding myself in those corners because I get lost.

 

Ira Madison III But, speaking of Taylor Swift, we’re going to get into the Grammys this episode that we’re just only really just going to dive into the Grammys. There’s a lot to talk about. Taylor’s dancing, it’s back.

 

Louis Virtel I want to congratulate Taylor. So she was nominated for death row, the Green Mile for her dancing at the Grammys. Not everybody has that.

 

Ira Madison III Not easy to get. Talk about that. We’re going to talk about the Beyoncé of it all.

 

Louis Virtel Sure.

 

Ira Madison III Harry’s House of it all.

 

Louis Virtel By the way, I have to say, we originally thought the Grammys segment would be like one segment or maybe even less than a segment. I have to hand it to the ceremony. We after the ceremony were like, Well, it’s the whole fucking show now, so

 

Ira Madison III I will actually say that the Grammys gave like it gave a get up out of chaos. You know, I feel awards shows are sort of messy right now. Yeah, they didn’t disappoint. Usually they’re boring the Grammys.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Right. I mean, it still is. You know, all the primary performers gathering together. So you always get some sort of ruckus or whatever. Maybe you get a performance you’ve seen 70 times, you know, Foo Fighters giving a tribute to whomever. But I do find that the Grammys, generally speaking, bring it. We got to see Bonnie Raitt so fucking bewildered. I mean, it should be memed. I’m not somebody who says that should be a meme ever. But this time it should be, because the look on her face was a volcano exploded in front of me.

 

Ira Madison III All right. So when we are back, we will get into the entire Grammy ceremony and more.

 

Louis Virtel <AD>

 

Ira Madison III The Grammys are now behind us and there were some shocks, including one historic snub that everyone is talking about. That’s right, Lydia Tar robbed.

 

Louis Virtel Luckily, she is a Grammy winner, as we know she’s an EGOT winner.

 

Ira Madison III She’s an EGOT winner You got. Yeah. She doesn’t need another.

 

Louis Virtel I hope it’s like Elvis where she actually won in gospel categories. Isn’t that crazy? No, None other. No, It was a productive evening. I mean, I always say, like, if you just get enough famous people together and they all are actively working because that’s not really what the Oscars are. It’s just people sitting around. You know what I mean? Here, I mean, like music is built for an award show. And so almost inevitably it’s going to be entertaining. And also because it’s on CBS, there’s going to be people that everybody knows like that have been around for a hundred years. You will see Stevie Wonder. You will see, you know, whatever remaining Beatle is around or whomever. So, I mean, it was good.

 

Ira Madison III Yoko.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Oh, my God. But waiting for that lifetime achievement, she has an album of the year winner.

 

Ira Madison III Okay.

 

Louis Virtel Double Fantasy. Yes. After John Lennon’s death.

 

Ira Madison III Yes. The one big thing the Grammys has going for it is musical performances, obviously. You know, and I feel like, one, the Oscars has gotten away from that.

 

Louis Virtel Well, the thing with the Oscars is based on what the year is, they sometimes will do all five or they might do just one, you know, So it’s sort of like I think it depends on the year. This is something I should ask about writing for the Oscars, but you don’t always get consistent performances.

 

Ira Madison III I think at this point, if we’re thinking about making the show more interesting, too, there needs to be more than five nominees in Best Original song, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Right, right.

 

Ira Madison III Because when we think of fun Grammy performances, we’re like Beyonce perform with Hugh Jackman or, you know, like the cast of Chicago performing. Like It’s Hard Out Here for a Pimp, You know, like, that is the kind of shit that you want to tune into an award show to watch. You know, and I’m always a fan of more nominees. The fact that there are so many nominees of the. Grammys. The fact that the Grammys, even with all of the racist bullshit that goes on with it, still like gets musicians to turn up because the Grammys are sort of like a thing in the way that, you know, like the Billboard Music Awards are, you know, or the AMA is, you know, like it’s it’s still sort of means something. And that is why I’d like to talk about first, this fan segment that was going on at the Grammys.

 

Louis Virtel That was a bit problematic, I do have to say. So if you’re going to stan,  they had stands, go up and talk about the album of the year nominees. And of course, like these are all like superstar performers, including ABBA. So

 

Ira Madison III In a roundtable and a roundtable that Trevor Noah, the host, introduced, it’s just regular people talk, each one representing a different album of the year nominee, talking about why they think that album deserves to win. One of them was youthful and that was the woman who talked about how Kendrick Lamar helped her sort of buy a van for her wheelchair and sort of like how he got involved in his community and helping her with her Go fund me. That was a really sweet story to hear. What I did not need was like, These gays going on about Adele and like ABBA being icons in their lives, or this woman who was this very huge Coldplay fan and called Chris Martin a sweet baby angel. It was like watching people argue on Twitter.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right, right, right. You have to bring some pre-written lines or something. Get it down to the sound bite. You know, also, just like standing is not an original enterprise. Like, I just don’t need to hear from someone who’s only excited, like, where’s the insight? Bring you the wrong journalists or something

 

Ira Madison III Um. Aside from introducing this bad segment and I felt like I was watching at first, I was like, Is this going to be some Daily Show kind of joke, which that would have been funnier if it was a bit, but it actually was very serious. I thought that Trevor was fine.

 

Louis Virtel It’s always so weird when he hosts this because I don’t know if he has completely different writers or he specifically wants to go for a different vibe. But Trevor Noah in general has kind of a cutting quality, you know, I got like a draw. It’s almost like someone like Dick Cavett or something. There’s like a dry, lightly bastardry vibe, you know, which I love. And then when he hosts this, it’s sincere to the point of. It just it’s like his voice is a little bit obliterated. I don’t know, like hearing him just, like, stand beyond, say, like five times in a row. It feels like anybody could be delivering those jokes. They get literally feels like Ellen or something.

 

Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Yeah. It’s just this is very like artist quality to his hosting, which was a contrast from Jerrod Carmichael.

 

Louis Virtel I was just going to say the same thing. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III But it still feels like it’s not completely Trevor Noah. And I wonder.

 

Louis Virtel You know what it reminds me of? It’s how I felt about Stephen Colbert when he took over the new show where I’m like, Wait, is this your voice? Because you did this other thing for a long time? And I’m aware it’s a character and I’m aware it’s, you know, that to be wry and parodic, etc.. But then this other alternative where you’re straightforwardly going for sincerity also, does it quite feel authentic either? You know, I’ve got.

 

Ira Madison III It seems like he enjoys it and I wonder if this is going to be something he approaches more post Daily Show. But.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Ira Madison III If so, like, I’m going to miss that edge a bit, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Right. Right. I think he.

 

Ira Madison III Does look great.

 

Louis Virtel Good Lord he does he look great. Movie star looking. Yes

 

Ira Madison III He has him in a shaved head. Era was cute, but the pandemic really, like, made that man fine. Have you been in? I’ve been in a room with him twice. Um. Both times I had a conversation with him and truly one of the most stunning men I’ve ever met in my life. Adele meeting The Rock, that was like me what I first met Trevor Noah.

 

Louis Virtel No, I believe it. I’m sure he’s just, like, kind of stunning. I mean, he’s stunning on TV, too, but in person, just like that pure face. Just like a face that pops, you know, belongs on a magazine cover.

 

Ira Madison III Remember what he was dating for a second Minka Kelly?

 

Louis Virtel Wow. Remember Minka Kelly?

 

Ira Madison III No.

 

Louis Virtel Anyway, on to Beyonce losing album of the year. I’m starting with this because I want to point out that obviously, you know, fans want Beyoncé to be recognized properly. She beat the record for most Grammy wins and she has 32 now, leaving Alison Krauss in the dust with her banjo. It really is sad. But I want to say it sort of speaks to how demerited every Grammy except album of the year is that people are this upset about it because she can have all these fucking Grammys. And it’s basically like saying, But she doesn’t have the real Grammy.

 

Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, I try to think of it in terms of like. Like what for? Like the Oscars or something right? Because it’s like. Like, because he’s not an actress. Although shout out to Obsessed and the Fighting Temptations. You know, she is a performer, a singer, a producer. Like she is. She’s. She’s giving you the whole fucking package. And it’s just it’s so interesting in music, in terms of that versus other award shows that we want to talk about, because like in music, when you the whole fucking package, you’d think that the industry that you’re a part of would acknowledge that it is in a way that critics acknowledge it, you know that fans acknowledge it. And I think what was just so interesting about Renaissance is that, you know, she’s been nominated four times for album of the year and has lost all four times. But this is the first one where you could look at a single critic’s best albums of 2022 and not see Renaissance at the top.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right.

 

Ira Madison III You know, and Harry’s House was nowhere on these lists.

 

Louis Virtel And I think Harry’s House is a well rated album, but no one would say it reached the like Metacritic Heights of Renaissance, which I believe literally has a 91.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s not even as good as Midnight Memories from One Direction. Okay, so let’s get that out of the way first. Oh.

 

Louis Virtel It’s a very weird album of the year win to me, I just like, I think everybody agrees it’s like a hit album and that there are great songs. I can sing a bunch of them off the top of my head, but as a moment, it’s not a definitive album of the year. It feels like when we gave Album of the Year to that Bruno Mars album, it’s like, Yes, I definitely know those songs and they are pretty good. But like, is it a definitive collection of songs? There’s something about the phrasing, album of the year, where it’s like it stands for a moment, you know, like and I, I think Harry’s house is good and listenable and not definitive.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, it’s also not even definitive for him, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III It’s weird because it feels like his defining moment this year was selling out a bunch of shows at Madison Square Garden. But I’m like, Is that what we’re rewarding Album of the Year with?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right, right.

 

Ira Madison III You know, And it’s, you know, it’s weird. It’s interesting because this was the first year where we got the sort of anonymous ballots that they like to do for the Oscars, which are always racist, misogynistic, and like.

 

Louis Virtel Just bone chilling. Yeah, Just like I can’t believe you spoke out, but thank you for your unfiltered honesty, the worst person on earth.

 

Ira Madison III But it’s sort of this thing where, like people just sort of like Beyonce has been rewarded enough. So we don’t need to give her this. You know, that sort of thing is just very it’s very weird. It it just seems like how people think about music and how people think about, you know, who they sort of feel like is deserving. You know, I think my friend Paul McCallian had like a very funny tweet where he was like, You need to remember that everyone who votes for the Grammys is an old white lad who made $1,000,000 producing an album called Thank you, Mr. Goldstone. You know, that’s so funny. It’s like all these people are like, did some music job 40 years ago. And now they’re the people who are still voting on music. And it makes sense, you know, because would Renaissance sound innovative to any of those voters? Did they even listen to it?

 

Louis Virtel Right? Yes. Well, I think something that does bother me a little bit about the discussion about Beyoncé is if you know, in the same way where I feel right now, like the people who are most obsessed with everything everywhere all at once, not that it isn’t a fine movie with lots going for it. It feels like people were only interested in that movie. So if you have no appetite for the other nominees at all, I don’t know that you’re like necessarily the best judge for this. And I feel like sometimes for Beyoncé we totally get away from. There are other musical artists and they are often great.

 

Ira Madison III Are they?

 

Louis Virtel So if she loses, but I have to say this year it’s like I have to really join in the chorus because there’s just no metric under which Harry Styles was better than Beyoncé this year. I just don’t see one way in which he was better than her.

 

Ira Madison III I can at least see Bad Bunny winning for  Un Verano Sin Ti, which is an amazing album and it’s also a globally amazing like like this this year. Like I feel like you were constantly hearing about either Beyoncé or you’re hearing about Bad Bunny, you know? And I feel like that album goes toe to toe. Voyage, one of ABBA’s worst.

 

Louis Virtel No, easily at their worst. If you can name a worse ABBA album, I don’t think they released it on purpose.

 

Ira Madison III Good Morning, Gorgeous. I’m glad Mary J. Blige is still working and making money. But even the performance of the song from that album, which I had never heard before, where she performed it at the Grammys, I was like, Mama looks good. But I’m also like, It’s been quite a minute since she’s released Be Without You.

 

Louis Virtel Right? Yeah, No, she fled the dancerie, as you know.

 

Ira Madison III Music of the Spheres. You know, I’m a Coldplay stan down.

 

Louis Virtel Sure.

 

Ira Madison III When that girl was pretending that this album is one of Coldplay’s best deserves to win album of the year. I was like, What are you smoking? They have not had a good album since, like what? Beyoncé was on with him for the weekend. Like, it’s it’s been a long, dark period for Coldplay fans.

 

Louis Virtel Brandi Carlile was also nominated in that category I the song she performed on Saturday Night Live recently, which was also nominated for was it Record of the Year? Yes. I don’t like it. Too cute. I was surprised. I feel like I would prefer a little bit more grit from Brandi Carlile. She’s got the look of somebody who, you know, has has some grit about her, even though she’s friends with every celebrity. So maybe she doesn’t. I don’t know.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I still remember her defending Justin Timberlake once from people being mean to him on the Internet and like, some great doesn’t do that. That’s like someone with true grit.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Like Hailee Steinfeld. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III You think? You think the You think the pop star who recorded Haze is out here defending Justin Timberlake? I don’t think so.

 

Louis Virtel That’s exactly right. I wouldn’t have been surprised if Lizzo picked it up. But I guess we record of the year sort of makes more sense as that was a sort of definitive.

 

Ira Madison III Right? Yeah, about like Lizzo. I really enjoyed that album. I actually think, well, it’s well rounded and maybe one of her best. I still don’t think we have the definitive Lizzo album. I feel like this year Lizzo became a definitive pop star.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, right. She’s the main ten because we only had like ten pop stars. Okay.

 

Ira Madison III Right. Like she’s officially A-list pop star now. Not you know, you’re going to see her at outside Lands. Like she is a star. But now we read the album that goes with being a star. You know.

 

Louis Virtel I have to say, I remember it must be like eight or nine years ago now. She was like a host of the VMAs pre-show. And I remember.

 

Ira Madison III Wonderland.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, she was on the screen and she was next to two people named Steak and Mike. That was. Their names on the screen just said Steak, Mike, Lizzo. And I am just like, man, you really came a long way in a few years. I mean, I have to say the name Steak is simply not on my lips.

 

Ira Madison III I remember before Keep It when I had, you know, my short lived podcast with Doreen St Felix on speed dial at MTV. We went to the set of Wonderland to interview Jo-Jo, who was a guest on that episode in her trailer. And we waited in like the makeup area where Lizzo was getting her makeup done, but we were not there to interview her. Thoe host of the show.

 

Louis Virtel You’re like, get out of the way. LIZZO Yes.

 

Ira Madison III But I like throw around that, too. I think it was like mic like slightly before Good as Hell or something. But, you know, like, I was excited to see Lizzo because I had seen her perform before. But, you know, like, she wasn’t the person that we were interview, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Right, right, right. I’m I’m going to say another Grammy win that I find slightly annoying. I should have expected this. But Taylor Swift winning best music video for the short film for that song where she beat for beat literalized the lyrics, it’s just not giving prestige to me. And also, as you know, I’m furious with Sadie Sink, thanks to The Whale. So I’m just mad at the whole enterprise.

 

Ira Madison III Sadie Sink did help Kate Bush with her resurgence, though.

 

Louis Virtel That’s true. All right. I mean, like she did she did the homework for society on that front, which is good because she doomed us in The Whale. I’m sorry. It’s just it’s it’s not a performance that gave me life. In fact, I. I was upset.

 

Ira Madison III Here’s my thing. They had to give Taylor some.

 

Louis Virtel True.

 

Ira Madison III Because she wasn’t, she wasn’t going to march there. She wasn’t going to show up if she wasn’t getting something. And we needed that white woman dancing in the aisles. And honestly, thank God for that, because I missed that. She doesn’t do it at the VMAs anymore because nobody goes to the VMAs and if you’re there and the liquor is flowing and you’re watching musical performances, like I would be up too.

 

Louis Virtel No, you know what? I do like that about her. I mean, like and I had forgotten that, you know, we we used to get at like seemingly four times a year.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel It’s like one of those things like, like we really took for granted the moment in time when Temple Grandin would be at every award show, and you could just depend on her being there and getting out there, like screaming from the audience, you know, sort of in the middle of a speech or something. It was a joyful time and Taylor Swift, you know, all the years she would be at the VMAs and I’m going to call it shimmying right now, feel quaint.

 

Ira Madison III She may be messy as hell, but the girl knows how to have a good time.

 

Louis Virtel No one could be less messy, by the way.

 

Ira Madison III I honestly feel like a Taylor Swift Grammy after any kind of Taylor Swift Party is probably lit.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, well, I mean, she knows everybody and she, you know, runs with the girl squad, if you remember.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. At a lot of dollars at the party, like, come on.

 

Louis Virtel Right. We’re all going to be sauntering. Okay, Now, Song of the Year. But Bonnie Raitt picked this up. First of all, I truly thought Bonnie Raitt was going to crack in half. She they bad to her. And it was like her eyes started to separate. She could not believe it was a. It’s, by the way, like the cutest little song, a tribute to John Prine.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah And it’s not amazing, but.

 

Louis Virtel It’s not amazing song. It’s not an amazing song.

 

Ira Madison III But this is what I mean. I would be okay if the Grammys were more like the like the Oscars or something. They were interesting upsets like this, you know? But like.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III So, like. But if you only have a thing like this and then Beyonce or even Bad Bunny not winning album of the year, it doesn’t feel like a fun awards show upset. It just feels like it’s it feels premeditated, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right, Right.

 

Ira Madison III And there’s just been enough from people like, I don’t know, Grimes had some posts about how, like, she couldn’t even nominate, like, Sophie for, like, producer of the Year was just like, I feel like there’s just so many rules about how, like, who they decide is going to be nominated for a specific thing and who’s going to win that. It’s just very it feels shadier than the Hollywood foreign press even, you know.

 

Louis Virtel Well, it’s interesting. I don’t know that she intended to be shady. I haven’t thought about this enough. But Sheryl Lee Ralph tweeted something like, wow, the Grammys really know how to share the awards. It’s like, wow, that’s interesting. That like it all landed on all of these people wanted to talk to you. Yeah, right. That is a little suspicious.

 

Ira Madison III But that’s another thing that I feel. You know, it’s like Beyoncé got her history making moment. Harry got that big moment. Adele got a moment, Lizzo got a moment. Taylor got a moment. Like, you know, it’s like there’s one for there’s one for you, there’s one for you. It’s like, it’s very suspicious.

 

Louis Virtel And also do remember a couple of years ago when there was that story that Mariah Carey is cautioned and Madonna’s Madame X were supposed to be nominated for album of the year. And then for some reason, they got left out. It’s just I there’s just a sense that there is a little bit more shadiness going on than there ever was before. Not that it was ever the most pristine operation, but there’s just so much more music now than there was like in the seventies when you could safely nominate, you know, only popular stuff for one thing, because that’s what that’s what got on the radio or got into people’s ears, you know, whereas now they have to juggle so much and mean so much to so many more people. And, you know, the monoculture is gone and music is a big part of, you know, how things have changed. So anyway, it’s it’s very interesting. I wonder what’s going on over there.

 

Ira Madison III I miss the old days of Phil Spector shaking people down and when they got at them and making them nominate his artists.

 

Louis Virtel His hair expanding as he is right now.

 

Ira Madison III All right. We will be back with plenty more to say about the Grammys.

 

Unidentified <AD>

 

Ira Madison III Okay. We are back with the rest of our Grammys combo and best new artists. Let me tell you one thing. When Olivia Rodrigo walked up there, I was very excited to see her because I was like, you know what this girl has been doing? I don’t know what this girl’s been doing because she’s been minding her own business.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, she really is a mind your own business sort of person. I did enjoy her at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as she performed You’re So Vain in tribute to Carly Simon.

 

Ira Madison III Oh, that was so fucking good.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, she sounded. She sounded really good.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I just love the concept of her. Even like Lil Nas X, who was at the awards, I believe, but didn’t really get like a big highlight. It’s actually wild that nothing of Nas’ was nominated.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, that is really strange. Maybe it’s a little bit over the threshold. Like, could it have been a little bit over a year? I’m not sure.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Plus, I feel like Call Me by your Name. And that stuff was dominated and that was like a big single before. Like even then the album came out, so he already got his moment, but like, last year. But I still appreciate, like, an Olivia, like a him. Like they released it out, that first album, and then they take a break.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Yes. And I have the distinct feeling she’s only going to get better, like I like that album, but I think it’s a launching pad type of album because it’s just sort of a young, you know, restless, angst ridden love. And I think she’ll kind of mature nicely. I’m excited about that.

 

Ira Madison III Well, yeah, I mean, when you talk about albums like that, too, and that’s a bring it back to like, to be honest, the Harriet of it all, you know. But I think that like I was reading a report in The New York Times, Cara Monica wrote a thing about the Grammys that was even just mentioning the fact that, you know, Madonna, who was at the award show the first time she was nominated for Album of the year, was Ray of Light. She won pop album. Still, though, other things in the major categories. And it’s just a reminder that, like the people who have moved our music culture, the people who inspire so many people who are on that stage are rarely the people who are ever rewarded.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, they’re not necessarily top honors like Prince never won Album of the Year, for example. You know, I mean, like obviously lots of like wonderful people like Michael Jackson won for Thriller. I mean, like there’s like lots of Whitney Houston won album of the year.

 

Ira Madison III Bodyguard won album of the year. Shout out to big sell besides big album of the year.

 

Louis Virtel Or definitive moment. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Have you ever heard that interview, by the way, of her and Whitney in 2002?

 

Louis Virtel I was just talking about this with someone. Was it you?

 

Ira Madison III Maybe. But she thanks Whitney for the Bodyguard Bodyguard soundtrack because she was able to buy her parents a house with the money from it. They’re both Jersey girls. I remember she says to her, something like, you know, like that soundtrack was massive, like 32 million copies sold. This Whitney was a baby was more than that.

 

Louis Virtel God, Whitney Houston, one of the few like personalities you truly could not make up. And she only gained more personality as the years went on.

 

Ira Madison III Oh, and that was 2002. And so that wasn’t her promoting the Just Whitney album, which, by the way, underrated in the Whitney albums that we talk about because that’s.

 

Louis Virtel What’s on that?

 

Ira Madison III That’s What You Looking At?.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, right. Uh huh.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. That’s also One of Those Days. Try it on My Own.

 

Louis Virtel I’ll give it a listen.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III That way. Speaking of interesting Grammy wins, how do you feel about Unholy being Kim Petras is a conduit towards her first Grammy win. First of all, that’s got to be a tough day for Katy Perry when Kim Petras with the Grammys dance.

 

Louis Virtel And Nicki.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, my God. And also Bjork, who I just learned is now not only has she never won a Grammy, she is the most nominated without a win. And I always say about Bjork. Bjork not winning a Grammy is like Glenn Close, not winning an Oscar, which is we can all agree they’re geniuses, but they scared your dad one time. And so they have to pay for that.

 

Speaker 1 And also people would recognize Julianna Margulies before they’d recognize Bjork.

 

Louis Virtel That is one of the craziest stories ever. I think we have heard this before. Julianna margulies was in a movie called Paradise Road with Glenn Close, and everybody recognized Julianna because she was on E.R. and nobody recognized Glenn Close when they were filming. Anyway, this is a cautionary tale.

 

Ira Madison III And ABBA still has a Grammy now, right?

 

Louis Virtel Did they win something?

 

Ira Madison III They No, I said Ava still has no Grammy, right?

 

Louis Virtel Oh, correct. Correct. Right. We’re like we came very late to ABBA roping in them and with the idea of legends, too. So that doesn’t surprise me.

 

Ira Madison III Besides, they all they got, they got a day to insanely stand for them on national television. So I think that’s that’s worth a Grammy.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, that’s true. Also, I mean, sorry, they have that hologram thing, which I think is just going to run until well, after we’re all fucking dead. So.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, now I’m excited about Kim winning, and I think that is she well past best new artist. You know, the Grammys. It’s so weird. She won a Grammy this year. She she could probably be nominated for Best New Artist.

 

Louis Virtel But the rules are so fluid and strange. And I know, like, Lady Gaga was a big part of how they reset it or some. Thing. And like the memory of Shelby, Lynne still lingers after she won Best New Artist after releasing six or seven albums.

 

Ira Madison III But I was really happy for her win, and I was also really sweet to see Sam Smith give their acceptance speech to Kim and to see Kim, you know, just, you know, shout out being trans. Shout out Sophie. Shout out Madonna for, you know, being one of the first artists who ever give a fuck about gay people. You know, I thought that was what really one of the highlights of the evening to me. And also Madonna introducing that was a highlight because she came out with her writing crop, right of in her best Katharine Hepburn Marlene Dietrich attire.

 

Louis Virtel I know that was basically plain clothes Madonna when you get to equestrian had mistress. I mean she rolled out of bed. Yeah. Also man.

 

Ira Madison III Someone should have asked her. Someone should have asked where Julia Garner is?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, no kidding. We’re all worried. No. Also, Madonna, we’re going on like 20 years now of her. Whenever she addresses an audience having to scold them, either they’re not making enough noise or they’re not understanding where she’s coming from. And she’s calling somebody usually herself provocative and they’re not respecting enough.

 

Ira Madison III Let me tell you something. So to make it in this industry. You’ve got to be provocative. You got to be dangerous. You got to upset the critics. But it’s the only thing people are upset about right now are your ticket prices.

 

Louis Virtel Which, by the way, I scored on I don’t know how I did it. I paid only 350 for the floor.

 

Ira Madison III My best friend Drew got us tickets in L.A. So I will be back for the show and see you there.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, good. And we get to see here in the city in which we live, which I, Beyoncé, you’re on notice is all I’m saying.

 

Ira Madison III And also, it’s a stadium and not in that tiny box, the Wilturn, with with no AC.

 

Louis Virtel Well she put us in the Wilturn. I was like this is like a stage for Wayne Brady or something. What are you doing here?

 

Ira Madison III That’s why she did like 20 shows.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Effing bizarre. Also, I just want to say, I mean, this is like, utterly old news to us, man am I sick of, like, Twitter commentary about how Madonna looks. I mean, just like, especially from men, but just in general, like get over it. Like, are you surprised that like somebody who’s like that level of stardom, like, does things to her face on occasion? I just like it just I can’t believe it’s even worse commentary. I always say I’m almost grateful that people, as a Madonna fan, that that like the average, whatever misogynistic male onlooker is obsessed with commenting about how she looks, because it gets away from the fact that Madonna routinely is incoherent. And I would assume you’re talking about that.

 

Ira Madison III Truly, everything she was saying in that speech, I was like, is this off the cuff? Sentences were not connected with one another.

 

Louis Virtel Teleprompter is your friend. Trust me.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. No, I mean, I also would say that, like, listen, there are times where you can criticize what Madonna looks like, like what she does, an extreme close up duck face kiss on Instagram live.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Ira Madison III Okay. Like. Like she’s she’s sometimes on Instagram and she’s look at like, the like the witch that Shakira put on her balcony to scare her mother and mom. Okay. She’s giving Baba Yaga sometimes, but I thought she actually looked pretty great at the award show. And it’s always some old gay man who wants to get online and say, Madonna looks crazy. And I’m like, How about you worry about how you look? Okay.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Ira Madison III Because your looks have you saying hey to someone ten times on Grindr with no response.

 

Louis Virtel What disease behavior? Yeah. When you just get those those orange blurbs all the way down the page. Yeah. I’m like, Your excuse is either desperation or meth. I don’t know what’s happened in.

 

Ira Madison III Several years, by the way.

 

Louis Virtel You can go back to all the unrequited love, which was the greatest hits package right there.

 

Ira Madison III But speaking of Madonna introducing Kim and Sam Smith. The most shocking thing would come out of the grab is for me. Was this satanic panic shit?

 

Louis Virtel Literally, they wore red. That’s what people are responding to.

 

Ira Madison III And like a horned hat from Party City. It was a Halloween hat.

 

Louis Virtel No. Do you think Where the Wild Things Are is haunted? I mean, just any old crown? Okay.

 

Ira Madison III And now you’ve got Ben SHAPIRO quoting Paradise Lost like he’s ever passed an English literature class.

 

Louis Virtel Right. I say this as part of the Thin Lips community, but you’ve got to shut those thin lives up. Oh, my God.

 

Ira Madison III But honestly, if we could get conservatives back focused on devil worshipers.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, and I do miss that. It’s great.

 

Ira Madison III And off of the gays are grooming their kids and transpeople. If we get them focused on like Satan, maybe that’s for the best.

 

Louis Virtel That is nice. Yes. Also, I did that same sector of Twitter was very obsessed with how Harry Styles dressed. And a part of me forgets, like when I look at Harry Styles, like. I’m not sure what his authentic self is, but sometimes what he wears appears to me to be a bit contrived. And I forget that even if it is contrived, it still is working as part of its it’s still.

 

Ira Madison III The girls are back.

 

Louis Virtel Upsetting the people it should upset, you know what I mean? Like it it it is like worthwhile in a way.

 

Ira Madison III That’s the thing too. It’s that. Well, that’s always why I hate it. The Sam Smith, Harry Styles comparisons because one, I guess they’re both British. But two, you know I mean this could this sort of what I was saying last week it’s just like, one, stop invoking Harry Styles every time you talk about Sam Smith.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Because what they’re doing two completely different things. They both were ugly clothes.

 

Louis Virtel Routinely. Yes. No, I did say on Twitter, I am happy that like one out of every five times now, a male pop star has to dress like Rue McClanahan. Like, it’s just nice, makes everybody feel safe.

 

Ira Madison III And it’s just, you know, this idea that we’re constantly praising Harry’s clothes is shocking to me because I. I rarely see it. So what else was going off on a tangent again when he first wore that jumpsuit on the red carpet, which, by the way, that was yes, I forget that it could shock conservatives, but to everyone else, it’s like it’s from the same designer who’s been doing your tour jumpsuit. It’s it’s like it looked like it was in the back of his closet, like they looked like there was no effort. You know, people were making fun of that. So, like, why are you jumping online being like a Sam Smith wore this, you would call them disgusting, but you’re gagging for it. With Harry Styles. No one is gagging for Harry Styles. Okay. I am not gagging for that maybe Fagot.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Maybe Fagot is such a good category. I feel like I should be saying that way more often. Is that have you met that maybe faggot? It rolls right off the cuff.

 

Ira Madison III But I will say about Harry Styles and Pitchfork already dug into his so we don’t really have to do it, but the gall of all doing that performance after winning Best Pop vocal, which didn’t go to Adele. It was really that was wild to me. I mean, it’s I know that he’s been on tour like he hasn’t left tour. It’s like Pebbles is his manager. But he is he is working.

 

Louis Virtel But so you’re so in fact, you are literally giving him the benefit of the doubt. Quote Pebbles. Yes. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III When I see Harry, I say, Girlfriend.

 

Louis Virtel Girl, get in your Mercedes, boy and get out of the studio. I don’t want to hear it. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III But wow, that was truly such a whiplash after what a best pop vocal to see that performance. Because, like, I was making excuses, you know, but on tour forever. Whatever, baby, the voice is shot. But there is no getting around the fact that that was an abysmal performance.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Tough. Tough. Luckily, there are so many performances at the Grammys that you actually kind of end up forgetting when when something is bad. I’m shocked to say that as somebody who chronically remembers everything.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel You know who else did not sound great that night? Sheryl Crow performing in tribute to Christine McVie. Obviously, I was waiting for that moment, by the way. I knew exactly what was going to happen. They were going to do Songbird during the In Memoriam. It just lines up perfectly. I’m fine with that, even though I don’t find Songbird to be a definitive Christine McVie Fleetwood Mac song, even though it’s everybody’s favorite song of hers. I just think she’s a rock and roll singer more than she is a balladeer, even though she has a kind of melancholic voice. Anyway. Sheryl started performing. Bonnie sang with her, and it obviously both of them, I think, are great vocalists. Sheryl maybe sounds a little worse than she used to. Used to be kind of like a phenomenal vocalist. To me, it sounded like they didn’t rehearse as well.

 

Louis Virtel I was going to say it needed some rehearsal. It was great. Well, here’s the music. Do you want to audition for this part?

 

Louis Virtel It was awesome to see Mick Fleetwood, though, who, of course, is dressed like a member of the Muppet Band, which is his favorite thing to do.

 

Ira Madison III That’s how I knew it was him.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. You’re friends with Animaland Janice.

 

Ira Madison III I guess we need to prepare ourselves for Songbird to be trotted out at every future music thing where they’re honoring Christine. But.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Ira Madison III Damn. Can. Can we hear something else?

 

Louis Virtel Right. You Make Loving FUn.

 

Ira Madison III That song.

 

Louis Virtel That’s the jam.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, Like, that’s why. That’s why we hate it. That same shit, too, with, like, well, when Madonna was dragged for her Are.

 

Louis Virtel Nothing Compares to You,  the Prince tribute.

 

Ira Madison III For the Prince’s tribute, it was also just like, We don’t need to always do people’s ballads just because they’re dead.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Okay.

 

Louis Virtel Wow that is such an important statement and it had to be said out loud. It really is bothering me.

 

Ira Madison III If if you had had if you had had Sheryl up there doing Tell Me Lies, you know.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Right.

 

Ira Madison III We live our lives like. And they could have even done like a stripped down version of like a upbeat Fleetwood song. But just like. Baby. I don’t need to be depressed by the focus and the content of the song.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Yeah, right. One layer is enough. One layer is enough.

 

Ira Madison III But I will say my favorite baby like performance, of course, was like the the hip hop tribute.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, that was nice. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, it was really fun. I. There were also there are some issues with some missing people. There were. But, you know, Questlove was online explaining, you know, that like a couple of major people had dropped out like 10 minutes before. And it’s also like because a lot of rappers are also actors, A lot of people are like on set for things. And I imagine like Eve and Brandy are in that ABC show Queen. So maybe they were shooting that. You know, but I was missing, you know, like Trina. Little, Little Kim was there that weekend. She was at the Roc Nation brunch. There’s a video of her hugging Beyonce. You know, it would have been nice to see her. Nikki, I’m like, is Nikki still blackballed from the Grammys after attempting to resurrect Satan?

 

Louis Virtel Oh, right. Via Roman. Yeah. Also, I mean, if Queen Latifah can take time out from equalizing. There is certainly room for everybody.

 

Ira Madison III But Questlove did announce that apparently this summer there were they’re taping like a two hour sort of like tribute to the 50th anniversary of hip hop. So I feel like a lot of the people are here. Yeah, we’ll get like, you know, I want to see my I want to say my Fem-Cees.

 

Louis Virtel Of course, yeah. MC Lyte, etc..

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I will say after Beyoncé lost, it was nice to turn off the TV. And not have to watch a DJ Khaled performance.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, my gosh. To wrap the ceremony with that. That’s a wrap on the industry, bitch.

 

Ira Madison III He is everywhere.

 

Louis Virtel Andrew Will. It’s like shouting at ten years. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Shouting phrases. I still remember when he was the only DJ for the formation tour. Glad I got there late for that.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, but also, I mean, we should congratulate Beyonce once and for all for having the 32 Grammys. I mean, I mean, also to get that many Grammys this early in her career, the woman’s like 42 years old.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel 9481 b’day. Okay. Yes. So  was 41 years old. 41 years old. Sorry. I just did the math.

 

Ira Madison III Oh, my God. I’m glad you remembered. B-day.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Oh, come on. That’s like. That’s. That’s. That’s not even intermediate level Beyonce.

 

Ira Madison III That’s fair. And of course, I mean, it’s it’s. It’s really steeped into your culture with the sweet charity of it all.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, precisely. Precisely. By the way, more people should be singing their birthdays at you. Then I’ll remember them and then celebrate them.

 

Ira Madison III Second birthdays, just like giving us their names at the beginning of songs or the first. Okay. That’s how we know who Red One is. And Dark Child.

 

Louis Virtel  Mama, when you could not stop fucking hearing about Red One, Colbie O’Donnis come back to us.

 

Ira Madison III Although I will say maybe Beyoncé kind of deserved it because she put a lot of people on that damn waiting list.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, absolutely.

 

Ira Madison III But I’m seeing the show in Amsterdam, so shout out to missing the Renaissance tour there.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, wow. Ring the alarm in the Red light district.

 

Ira Madison III Oh, yeah. See.

 

Louis Virtel I put a bunch of words together there for you.

 

Ira Madison III But also a lot of friends. I know I’ve been getting European tickets because you know what Ticketmaster is not allowed to do in Europe. Let people resell tickets for insane prices.

 

Louis Virtel I mean, Beyonce and tickets are like their own industry. I haven’t heard anything like this since, like Hannah Montana.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. So good luck to everyone. We’ll see you at the Renaissance tour. Or we won’t.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Ira Madison III We will be right back with Daniel Pinnock of CBS series Ghosts, who was going to give us some boots on the ground, investigative reporting for the Grammys as well.

 

Speaker 2 <AD>

 

Ira Madison III Our guest today is a relentlessly entertaining and truly hilarious, lovely actress. I honestly just very She’s already brightened our day by being here as she’s currently killing it on CBS’s Ghosts. Please welcome to Keep It, Danielle Pinnock.

 

Danielle Pinnock Hey, thank you all for having me.

 

Ira Madison III It’s so exciting to have you here. I truly want to say that like I’ve been following You said before, you were on Ghost and you are just your online presence is truly one of the most delightful and sort of like genuine and heartwarming, which I have to ask How are you able to be this lovely as a working actor in Hollywood?

 

Louis Virtel What’s wrong with you?

 

Danielle Pinnock I don’t know, to be honest. I have to say my mama lives down the street from me, so she keeps me fully ground. I’ve got good family and friends support as well, too. But making people laugh is, I think, honestly what I want to do in this world. That is my destiny and it just makes me really feel really good when people are just having joy. And if I can provide that excellence, I’m doing my job.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, so the zany ensemble of Ghosts, I mean, to the naked eye, it looks like, you know, like a bunch of friends hanging out. It looks like fun. How grueling is it? I mean, when you make a show like that, you like to put on your game face every day and be crazy. How much how much does it take out of you ultimately?

 

Danielle Pinnock Well, listen, it’s basically like the supernatural real world. I mean, if y’all please, please. Yes, we are. As actors, we’re having a lot of fun. Like, it feels like coming to summer camp. And when we first book this show, we all booked it in the middle of the pandemic, so we didn’t know if we were going to go back to work or not. And so we were all in our houses for those like 12 months making our forgot your bread and the pajamas, watching reality TV like the rest of the world. And we got this amazing opportunity to create this show. So like when we got on set the first day, it was like, Oh, I’m out of I really. And it was so fun. I mean, everything about this production is kismet. Like the cast is incredible and we all get along, which I’m hearing is a rarity a lot of the time on the show. But we are having an absolute blast. And to be honest, like playing Alberta, who is the Prohibition era Jazz goes to the 1920s. It’s a role of a lifetime. So I feel really grateful that they allowed me to be a part of it.

 

Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Before you got on the show, you were already entertaining people because, like, you had this series on Instagram, it was called the Hashtag Book. And that is where I first discovered you. Yeah. How did you come up with that idea? And, you know, just to sort of be like, I’m going to depict my life as a, ah, actress, like try to get jobs in Hollywood.

 

Danielle Pinnock Well, first thing first, I had to give a huge shout out to my co-creator of Hashtag, which is Lenise Rene Fredrick. That is my best friend. And we came out of Chicago together. We started How I Met her is we were understudies in a basement at a theater company in Chicago. And when we got to L.A., it felt like the acting Olympics, like we were having these very strange moments where we would go in for like the one black handmaid in Handmaid’s Tale. Like we would be sitting next to somebody that won the Cinnamon Challenge and a series regular that was all living single. And I’m like, What’s going on there? So the industry in Los Angeles and we wanted to really talk about not only our experiences like in the over the decade that we’ve been acting, but just specifically in L.A. as well. And from the black actress perspective and what it’s like when, you know, natural hair is now. And so all these black girls got curly wigs now, you know what I mean? Like, what does that mean? I remember when Scandal first happened, we all had to do headshots in a three piece suit, and we’re coming out looking like, damn, Steve Harvey and MAXINE Waters trying to look like Carrie White. We all had that ball. I’m like oh, well. We’re just wanted to talk about kind of the foolishness that also happens as well too. And we didn’t think anything of it. We posted our first video, if I’m not mistaken, I think four years ago, and it just started going viral. People were saying, Oh my gosh, I know this experience and this was me. And we built a really great community over the years and I’m so grateful for Hashtag, but it’s been a blast working on that page.

 

Louis Virtel Speaking of interesting experiences, you were on the crossover episode of How to Get Away with Murder and Scandal, and I was very fascinated by you, like Viola Davis showing up to set, and the script is just like utterly filled with notes. Tell me about that experience. And because Kerry Washington was there, too. So I assume that was just.

 

Danielle Pinnock Like, my gosh.

 

Louis Virtel A good experience to just watch as well as be a part of it.

 

Danielle Pinnock First of all, both of these women are on my vision board. So I actually did not audition for this role. The casting director. Or at the time said, Hey, I know you’ve come in for us a lot. This is really small role in this thing of scandal. I said, Yeah, I’ll do it. Whatever. She’s like, It’s a special. She just kept on saying it’s a special episode. And I was like, Okay, well, maybe public posted it, you know? Oh, my. I’m ready to. You don’t have to tell me twice. Whatever you need me to do. I’ll be there. And so I get to set and I get in the makeup trailer and I see Kerry Washington running over lines. And she’s like, Hi. Hi. And I was like, Oh, my God, that is Olivia Pope. I’m shaken. Absurd. I love her so much. And then we get to set and then Viola Davis walks in. I said, Wait a minute. That’s how to get away with murder. That is Fences. What’s going on here? And then she had the nerve to shake my hand and say hello. My name is, by the way that oh, oh, oh, you made it so they were so kind. And just watching these two titans in the industry work was the most incredible masterclass that I could ever have had as an actor. Viola Davis busted out this binder and it was just like, highlight notes on the side. I was like, I don’t even know. You get five star notebooks anymore where it’s just like, Oh my God, what’s staples out of business? She had everything that you could think of, had it in there. Pages. Yeah. I’m thinking we got to do this. What? Let’s try this. And they were basically kind of self directing themselves. Tony Goldwyn was there. He was the director of the episode. And I was kind of like, you know what, lady? Feel it out. Like, these women are master classes. I mean, what are you to direct? They know what they’re doing and just seeing their process and how they worked, it was incredible. But I do have to say a fun fact is I was a hairdresser in that episode.

 

Ira Madison III That’s the scene, by the way. That scene.

 

Danielle Pinnock Yeah, that.

 

Ira Madison III That scene is that scene as the best seed, because that’s where they’re fighting with each other.

 

Danielle Pinnock And I’m trying my best. This was me. I was like, I’ll be professional. I think I probably had like five lines in there, but I was like, Be professional. Just remember your lines. Don’t don’t like, act up, but like, I’m watching their performances. As a fan, for real. And there was a moment where I’m literally curling that curling iron was on and I was like, I don’t want to be the actor that burns the back of my neck. I was like, I will be blacklisted for the rest of my career. So there’s a moment where I’m like watching them like a fan and that curling iron is burning the shit out of my head because I’m like, How far go I need to go? But I was like, Oh, God. So that’s.

 

Ira Madison III I love just the idea of Viola in general. Just like, you know, like footnote in my career, because it’s like that is just like actress. That’s. We were discussing her earlier. You know how, like, she’s also a theater actress through and through. And I love to hear a bit about, like your experiences in theater, maybe some of your more exciting roles or people you might have worked with who now you see doing bigger and better things in theater or in film. Because I know you were an understudy for Robert O’Hara’s barbecue.

 

Danielle Pinnock Yes. I was.

 

Ira Madison III I fucking love that play. I love that play. I watched it. Colman Domingo was in it. Yes.

 

Danielle Pinnock Colman Domingo was the director. It was sheer insanity. Okay. Well, first of all, I lied to get that job, okay. I, I did not live in Los Angeles, and I took a Spirit Airlines flight. When I saw Robert O’Hara and Colman, I said, Yeah, I need to be in that. So I took this little Spirit Airlines flight that got in in the morning. I got to the Geffen so early they thought I was unhoused because I literally was like knocking at the gate at 7 a.m. And then the front desk was like, Do you need something to eat since why are you here? So I’m going in because I’ve been a fan of Colman Domingo since passing Strange, which was like a play you did on Broadway. I mean, I saw that production. My very dear friend, David Randall. I think we probably saw that show every weekend. And we were driving in from Philly and I was like, Oh my God. So when I saw him in the audition room, I almost passed out. You know, I didn’t even know what signs they wanted me to do for the audition. I just memorized the full script, like, this is how this is. How did this. Well. So they’re like, okay, we’re going to do the first side. I was like, Oh. Forgot the side. Does anybody have an extra copy? So I’m like, okay, I know exactly what these lines are. Put the lines down. I was like, Oh, am I like, What’s going on here? Did the lines had a really, really solid audition? Coleman was like, I love you. You are so funny. Robin was like, Yeah, she’s great lover. And I was like, Oh my God, I got the same approval. They said, Where do you live? It was like, Okay, I’m not from L.A.. Oh, okay. I was like, I’m from and I’m part of Sherman Oaks, and I’ve heard of Van Nuys, but I couldn’t get them together. I couldn’t figure out which one was which. So I said, Sherman Nuys. Everybody started laughing. I was like, I don’t know why that’s funny. But I’m happy that I went back to Chicago, back on Spirit Airlines, and they’re like, Listen, this show was already cast when you came in, but we want you to understudy. And I said, without question. They’re like, okay, we’ll see you. We’ll see you in August. My husband and I literally had no plans of coming to L.A. We had absolutely no savings at all. We found some bootleg moving company to get all of our apartment furniture. They basically held our furniture hostage. We didn’t have furniture when we moved to L.A. for like maybe about nine months. So we were sleeping on this like air mattress. And my friend Dexter Montague, who I love so much, felt so bad for us, move like, Damn, this apartment is a mess. There was one wooden chair that we still have to this day, so we get a plastic bottles and plastic plates and there’s water and chair. That was the only furniture we had for nine months. I sold everything I could in my Chicago apartment. We ended up driving to L.A., and I got in on the first day of the understudy rehearsal and the day that I got in, and they were like, So how well do you know the lines? Because an actor just dropped out. I was like, What? So I got in and I did all my stuff that off. They were like, Okay, there’s another actor that we had on standby. Her name is Cherise. BOTH She may be the one to come in, but if Cherise can do it, you’re on standby. And I was like, Okay, I’m ready. I’ll just be me, me, whatever you may be. But that production was so incredible to be a part of, like black Hollywood elite. Ava DuVernay came to see the show, Viola Davis came to see the show. And being a newcomer to L.A. and having people like Kimberley Abe Gregory, who was one of the best actresses I’ve ever met in my entire life, in fact, Cassel, Omar Dorsey, Heather Sills like Cherise Balls, being around those people like was the best break break into the industry that I could have ever had. Being in L.A., it was incredible. And Coleman and I are still friends to this day. He’s amazing.

 

Ira Madison III He’s the sweetest person I love.

 

Danielle Pinnock Sweetheart.

 

Louis Virtel Also, by the way, you have to assume that, like a lot of budding actors are lying to get jobs because what are people going to do, get nominated? It’s not like it’s not like you’re trying to work for the government or something. But I mean, like, who’s going to find out you’re lying?

 

Danielle Pinnock I was lying. I was like Sherman naive. I had no clue. But it was probably one of my favorite theater experiences. I mean, coming from top of from the comedy world, I was doing documentary theater when I was younger. Like, I wanted to be the next Anna Deavere Smith. So that was like my mission in life. And so being able to go to a job and get paid every week in theater is a rarity. And that’s why, you know, all these little productions. I was getting paid in pizza for a very long time. I mean, that was like the biggest amount of money that I was getting. So to be able to be not only with all of these incredible actors, but to be getting paid weekly. Amazing. It was. It was awesome.

 

Ira Madison III Amy Lester, Chicago Theater. I bet I, I went to undergrad. Chicago. My most harrowing experience was working for Menopause, The Musical, for an entire summer, and I’m sure it’s still running.

 

Danielle Pinnock But I had a production and there was a play I did in Chicago, I think called Hell Cab. And so it was only supposed to be for actors because I think it was like 50 roles or something, but they cast like 50 nonunion actors in Chicago. We had like a rotating cast. And I remember being like, Yeah, this is my first production. This is going to be amazing. And we I said, Where’s the dressing room for us? Y’all they put it in the basement of the theater and we were doing that production. There was like no end date ever. So like we were doing that production from like August until, like the end of January, and we were all like, Hey, y’all, I know this is a Christmas play, but like, I’m got to go. We got to go now. Bad that like towards December when all the blizzards and stuff come, that it would like flood in the basement. So we would have to get dressed in rain boots.

 

Ira Madison III Oh, my gosh.

 

Speaker 4 I suppose we have. So we have just the right boots. So I’ll try to put stockings over the boots. And it was just hood classic. Okay. Well, it was wild. I mean, I’ve had some wild, wild tales for sure.

 

Louis Virtel Theater should not remind me of, like, Little House on the Prairie. I mean, it just. I should. I shouldn’t be worried about things like insulation, etc.. You know what I’m saying?

 

Danielle Pinnock Exactly. Oh, my God.

 

Louis Virtel So how long have you been in L.A. now?

 

Danielle Pinnock I’ve been in L.A. for six years. This year will be six years.

 

Louis Virtel So tell us about getting cast on Ghosts and which I assume was a long process. I mean, you’re in one of the most ideal spots, which is CBS, where, you know, sitcoms run for, I believe, 25 years or so. And Ghosts seems to be on that trajectory.

 

Danielle Pinnock Yes. Well, I have to say, I was in the CBS family before because I was doing Young Sheldon for four years.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, young Sheldon.

 

Danielle Pinnock And that was like my first guest star role. It was a heavy recurring, which was fantastic. And so they kind of knew about me, but then they were like, you know, this show may require improv. She can she do that? My agent was like, Have you seen Hashtag Booked? So they sent them the whole page. You’re like, Wait, wait, wait. Don’t you have this over here? I booked that role in the in the pandemic. It was like November of 2020. And I was just living, to be honest, like I was living my best introverted life. I mean, when the pandemic happened, it was either like one or two people, the people that were like, I want to go outside, and the people that were like, Finally, I never have to go outside again. And I was like, I never have to go to an event or party or put a full beat on like I could. I never had to wear Spanx again. I was like, I can just be inside and not be bothered. I’m, it’s bad y’all. It’s bad. So my agent said, Hey, we have this audition for you for this incredible show called Ghost. It was a BBC production originally. What some episodes into If You Like It. And I fell in love with the BBC version Off the bat. I was like, This is the best thing I’ve ever seen. I said, Wait a minute, I’m playing a Black goes, What’s happening? And she’s from the 1920s Harlem Renaissance. Sign me up. So it was my first time not auditioning for such a long period. I mean, I did an audition for a show and maybe ten months. So I said, You know what? Let me I’m going to do a big with this one. And I borrowed my mom’s little shake and go wig. She had this little curly bob situation that was kind of shook up and put it on her. I got this little eye on my 30th birthday dress. I had all these sparkles on it. I got this little faux fur for $20 on Amazon and these little gloves. And I was like, Yeah, I want to give it to them. And I was like, There’s something about this outfit that’s missing. I was like, You know, the girls back then, they had hats, I’m gonna do a hat. And so I had from this bootleg production I did in Chicago called Major Barbara, and I went to the Major Barbara had a big that’s it. So I did my, myself, my agent was like, she was like, This is really good. I’m just going to send it in. And the very next day they were like, We want to call her back for a screen test. So basically what that is, is like all the producers of the network are there, the possible director of the pilot episode, the showrunners. And so I said, okay, great, cool, cool. So I did the screen test on Zoom, which is really unheard of. And I did it in my kitchen and my husband was literally making bacon during my thing. And like on the set of Us, because we live in a very, very small apartment is Sherman Nuys. And so I so I did my audition and the producer was like, Yeah, you know, I really like her. This is great. Thank you so much for coming in Danielle. And then 2 hours later, my, my agent called and said, Hey, they want to audition you again on Friday. And I at that time I had a pitch with Taraji P Henson for an animation that I cooperated with my dear friend Punam Patel. And so I said, Wait a minute, what time is this thing now? They said, Is that 1:00? I said, I that’s my thing with Taraji. I need to meet Taraji. I was like those don’t work out. I would say I met Taraji was like, Oh my God, I’m going to miss this opportunity. But I was like, Well, it’s fine because I love Hidden Figures and I love this baby boy. So it’s okay. So they said, You know what? They’re willing to change the time. I said, Perfect. And they said, They have one note for you. And I’m thinking, it’s going to be like acting wise. Okay, what do I need to adjust in the scene? They said, Please do it without the hat. I said, Oh my God. This had I did not pitch with Taraji. I went in, I took that daggone hat all and I remember my first scene, I flubbed some lines because I was so nervous. It was like, this is the last the moment. And they said, You know what? We think we got it. And I don’t know what just crept up inside of me. I think maybe because I was in the comfort of my home as a young lawyer, I didn’t get it. I messed up all those lines. We need to do this shit again.

 

Louis Virtel Fuck, yes.

 

Danielle Pinnock And they were like okay, yeah, let’s do it. Then became a work session where I would try stuff, I would improvise, stuff they would take. We love that. We love that. I’ll do that again on this side. Now, just look at the camera here. Do this. And I’m doing all this on my kitchen, y’all. And like, it was so collaborative and just working with them in that way, it felt like home. And so I booked the role on a Sunday in November, and I was on a meeting with my friend Lisa Fredrik, and we’re doing a hash out book, all of like, what content are we’re doing this week? And my manager, who never travels to the Valley, it’s from Santa Monica, was like, I’m outside. I was like, Oh, God. Either somebody died or something would happen. I’m like this man to be outside my door in Van Nuys, I was like what’s going on. So he had these champagne chocolates, but I’ve never seen champagne chocolates in my life, y’all. Like I come from very humble beginnings. Okay. A Lindt chocolate is the best I’ve seen. So he said you booked it. You booked it. Oh, my God. So my best friend actually has the recording of me. And when I first booked the show because we were on Zoom recording at the time and it happened, and this is like, I’m alone. This girl says 2013 understudies in a basement. And we just like balls, you know, because it’s like when you’ve been working for all these reasons. I was 18 years old, you know what I mean? Like, and even a little before that, because even I was like a teen actor. I was just like auditioning for commercials. And my mama thought she was going to be my age and had this really bootleg agency called Faith Based Agency. I was her only client and we were going back to watch Backstage Magazine and circle the things. And so it’s like, this has been a long time coming. And it was just it just felt so good to have something in a project that, I loved the U.K. version, an ensemble comedy on broadcast TV. It was truly a dream come true for me.

 

Ira Madison III That’s so it’s so exciting. And I mean, honestly, one other thing I would ask, too, is you’re part of the CBS family, which means you were at the Grammys.

 

Danielle Pinnock Oh, my God. I sure was. I was at the Grammys.

 

Ira Madison III We need some boots on the ground.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Danielle Pinnock My cast was so jealous because they were like, how were you at the Grammys? We weren’t. I just was asked. They were like, What! I need to see Lizzo. I was like, that’s like the first person I see everything. Okay. So first of all, shout out to my glam team because I said, I’m not by no dress for this. I was like, I’m plus size, you know, trying to find dresses and stuff. Christian Siriano. Christian Siriano is booked and, you know, my friends that are like more famous than me, they were like, girl, just call Christian. Just call Brandon Blackwood. These people don’t know me.  Belly up. And so I had just had a little. This is how bootleg the shit was. So I went on Twitter to talk about does anybody know, you know, @Siriciano? Christopher John Rogers Rather like it was a mess. So my friend Divine, who was like, really mentor me through the whole situation. I’ve never had a red carpet like this before. She was like, Listen, I’m sure you got something in your closet. If these people don’t answer, just like, find something. So I had this little ASOS dress that I’ve actually worn for a photoshoot a month ago, but I was like, those pictures ain’t gonna come until the summer, so maybe I could get away with this dress. So I did that. And Ricky and Ashton, who are my hair people, they came in, I said, You know, we’re just gonna do braids I’ll have for the month. My makeup artist came assigned to my nail Lady Carol, and she was like, We just all we’re gonna use up the ASOS. So I was like, Okay, great. So that’s exactly what we did, y’all. So I got there. I was, like, shaking because I’m like, yes, I much I love Oscars, Emmys, Golden Globes. These are actors, you know what I mean? And for me, I’m like, Oh, work with these people. At some point, these these musician, this is like my you know, this is the soundtrack to my life, you know, my teenage years, my daughter. I said, Oh, my God. So I’m flipping out. So the first person I see on the red carpet, um, Sam Smith. Shook. Sam came in giving Lucifer realness, okay, lit that red. And then they said, You know, Sam has to get on carpet before you, do you mind?  Do I mind? Have on the carpet has all these black you know they had all those black people in those wigs. You know the black people in those wigs. And where they get those wigs from? This. That was my first thought. I’m like, You’re not a family. What’s going on here? So Sam walked. And then I came on and my husband was like, shaking. And it’s like, Oh, my God, so many celebrities. We saw Laverne Cox on both pairs. I was like, Oh, that’s Laverne Cox. We got in the theater. I thought we were just going to sit in the state, you know, in the stadium area where everybody else was. They said, Danielle, we’re ushering you down. I said, Down where? To a table. And my best friend had literally said, You’re going to be you’re going to be on camera. I said, No, not on camera. It’s going to be fine, y’all. I was at the table. I was right in the front. Me and Flavor Flav were sitting next to each other.

 

Louis Virtel As the prophesy foretold.

 

Danielle Pinnock Man. Was sitting right next to me. Doja Cat was right behind me. Camila Cabello to my right. It was sheer insanity. So in the commercial breaks, like I’m seeing Trevor Noah just walking around like he’s not Trevor Noah. First of all, Trevor Noah has the best curl pattern I’ve ever seen in my life. I don’t know what kind of black castor oil that man is using. But the curls were just blowing. I had the nerve because, you know, I’m a little. I’m also, you know, Capezio is still out here, so I’m a little confused. I was like, I need to get some hand hand sanitizer. Sanitizer? I thought, Hey says you want to get some Adele? Adele. I like your dress. Adele is complimenting on this doggone dress to the point to where I’m like, If ASOS don’t give me a brand deal at this point. Adele Every Adele album. People used to be like, Why are you still playing this? Why? Because I’m going to school in North Philly at Temple University. I wanna play this British girl out. 19. 21. And I probably even had the Sweet 16 mixtape. I never even came out here. I went to every part of this lady Life with her. Unitl 30. Okay, I’m here with you, Adele. Wait a minute. Oh, my God. Adele did army sanitizer. She was like, Where are you from? Heard my husband’s accent. Cause, you know, he’s from England. You have a dream, How did y’all meet? I want to hear everything. Okay. And come back. So then I want to said. I’m thinking, you know, celebrities may just be saying stuff to say stuff. Now, that next commercial break came up, she’s like. Okay. I said, Why is she like, Wait, so you went to Birmingham School of Acting. You were in Coventry. Oh, I wanted that. I said, Why are we really ki ki’ing with Adele?

 

Louis Virtel Suspicious? Yeah.

 

Danielle Pinnock I like I’m like, I’m like, This is chasing pavements. Okay. So, um.

 

Ira Madison III She’s really one of the most curious celebrities. I love that about her. She seems genuinely interested in whoever she meets.

 

Danielle Pinnock Genuine. So then then I was like, I got this hug from this black, this black lady came up to me. She said, Oh, my God, I just love Ghosts so much. Can we please take a picture together? Lizzo’s Mama. I said, You want to take a picture with me? I’m trying to take a picture with your daughter. What! I need to take a picture with you. So then I. Lizzo was sitting at the same table as Adele. I just had to go up to Lizzo. I’ll just say, you know, I’m a huge Lizzo fan. I’ve been around since Big Girl, Small World. I’m in the original OG class of Lizzo. Okay. So I just had to give her props. I said, Listen, I wish that I had someone like you growing up, but I’m so glad that you’re here with us now. And she was like, We’re here with each other together. I said, are we? You mean so much to me. She’s like like. Want to take a picture? Yeah. So I’m mouthing to my husband. I’m like, Yeah, grab the camera. So he’s snapping it off, make sure it’s not blurry. Lizzo looks gorgeous. Snatch. I saw her boyfriend out. Boy, were just chillin. I also didn’t know that Adele was with a black man. Love that for her. Oh. Cause I was like who’s this other brother at the table? That’s Adele’s boo. I saw H.E.R. I was like, H.E.R., You are our beauty. I love this for you. Come on. She was like thank you, sis. SZA. Stunning. SZA was stunning. Let me tell you something. Jennifer Lopez had me shook it when Jenny from the BLOCK walked on stage. I said, Oh, dear God, I can’t. I mean, she looked gorgeous. Ben. I don’t know if he was tired or what, but Ben, you know, he was going to. I know. I think, you know, they’re newlyweds. Honeymoon’s tired people out. I don’t know what’s going on, but he. He looked a little sleepy, I think. I think it was a little sleepy. But that’s all right. He was still showing love. Next to Lizzo was Jay-Z and Beyonce. And I was shaking because I really I mean, Jay-Z pre lemonade. I mean, I think it’s two versions of Jay-Z now.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Right.

 

Danielle Pinnock Well, like pre lemonade. Like I used to. I’m from New Jersey. Like this man is the East Coast. And so I remember getting Reasonable Doubt album, have my grandmother throw that thing in the trash because she was like, this is not Christian. And then having to go back to Sam Goody to get the album again and hide it under my bed.

 

Ira Madison III Yes. Sam Goody.

 

Danielle Pinnock Yes.

 

Louis Virtel Sam Goody And so that means you paid $18.99 for it.

 

Danielle Pinnock And I actually did use my church offering money for the city again. So but yeah, I definitely did. And I was just like, Oh my gosh, this is Jay-Z. So I was like, I had the nerve. I don’t know what I was doing with this, but I was like, gratitude, Mr. Carter.

 

Ira Madison III Ha ha.

 

Danielle Pinnock And I was like, Mr. Carter. I was like, gratitude. And then he was like, Oh, thank you sis, Jay-Z had this a big bottle. I was like, I even know Ace of Spades came of bottles this big. It was like, There’s a big value pack. Like, it was big. I got champagne cause I like bottles of that life, literally. And he was just passing the champagne around. And then.

 

Ira Madison III Was it only on his table? Cause I feel like they travel with Ace of Spades.

 

Danielle Pinnock Only. Only at his table and only on his table. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, I can’t. I can. I’m, like, shaken. And then I see the queen. I see Beyoncé. And then I just had the. Like, I knew her. Y’all, I don’t know this woman, but I know her, you know what  I mean? Like know her, But we know her. So that’s. And you know what I mean? And so I just I, I don’t know what’s going on, Ross said. And, you know, and she said. I said I am a honeysuckle in the beehive. And she just burst out laughing. I was like, I love you. She said, Thank you so much, so lovely to meet you. And she didn’t want me. And then she’s like, Hi. And then everything else is black. I don’t remember anything else. After that. I just  was like Beyonce laughed and said hello. I’m like, literally probably passed out. And I was just like, Yeah. And then the security, you know, her security was there.

 

Ira Madison III Julius is.

 

Danielle Pinnock There. Julius was there being like, I was like, Julius, I want no pictures. I want no trouble. I’m just here to come in and come out.

 

Louis Virtel I want to be clear that this is just you asking to go to the Grammys and then this happened.

 

Danielle Pinnock No, but literally.

 

Louis Virtel It’s so crazy.

 

Danielle Pinnock And I was walking around, you know, I had my little chips from the charcuterie they had on the table. I was like, Oh, my God, see don’t bring ghetto girls to places, nice places like walking around. And then Doja Cat was smoking a full cigaret inside. I said, See that? That’s it. And I had the nerve to go to Doja Cat talking about. Yes, woman, woman, woman, and did the dance and she was like, Yes. Cigarette. Shook. This night I held up Kendrick Lamar, won the award, couldn’t get through. I moved the chairs for Kendrick Lamar. I’m like, what’s happening? And I’m also tell you, Stevie Wonder, that concert was so good. I was leaping in my heels. I was leaping. Like Stevie, the Mutsic. They don’t make music like that to the point where this man is so genius. It’s just generational. Everybody was up. Every single path was just up and dancing. And then they do. The 50 years of hip hop, which I loved. I was like, Where’s Little Kim?

 

Louis Virtel I was low on women. They had Queen Latifah and they had Missy. But yeah, yeah, yeah. And Salt-N-Pepa. Yeah, Yeah.

 

Danielle Pinnock I was like, Where’s little Kim? I mean, that was I was like, What’s going on? Where’s Eve? I’m alone. It was such a few people that I just kind of was like, What’s going on here? But I did have the nerve to call Queen Latifah by her first name. I was like,Dana, But I don’t know that lady? That lady, I’m from Jersey. So I think maybe that’s the Jersey thing. I just was like,Dana, screaming. U.N.I.T.Y, screaming, screaming the whole time. Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was like one big concert. I haven’t been to a concert, honestly, since maybe 2018. So it just was it was just a fabulous time and everyone looked gorgeous. And I hope next year, my whole cast, we can all go together.

 

Ira Madison III Well, the moral of the story is just ask.

 

Danielle Pinnock Ask and you shall recieve.

 

Ira Madison III Okay. I’m going to tell her. I’m going to tell anybody. This is my sermon. Anybody. Listen, because I will tell you this. There you go. You know what I was actually sick about? You know what? Concert tickets are sold out. You know, you could ask your agency to get you tickets.

 

Danielle Pinnock Stop.

 

Ira Madison III You’re pay, you’ll pay that, you’ll pay the face value. But that’s how I got SZA tickets when they sold out before. That’s how that’s how we get the girls. Got our Taylor tickets. Come on, now.

 

Danielle Pinnock Do you think we could do this for Renaissance? Because.

 

Ira Madison III Now, listen, Renaissance is hot, okay? But ask.

 

Louis Virtel I mean, like, you might get the tickets, but you end up in, you know, like Volgograd or ever. She’s performing. Yeah.

 

Danielle Pinnock Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Danielle Pinnock But at it, I’ll travel. Yeah. You know, I do want to see too. I mean, Renaissance is a given, but I have to see Usher in this Vegas residency. I heard the concert is so good. Also, a lot of people may not know, Usher gave me my first writing job.

 

Ira Madison III Mm. Did you write Love in This Club?

 

Danielle Pinnock I’ve actually never told anybody this. This is live. He was doing iHeartRadio the hosting the awards. And my friend Poonam Patel and I, we came in and did some of the script for him and we were trying to be so professional through the whole Zoom and I just was like, Wow, this is really Usher Raymond. Like, I cannot deal with him on the Zoom right now. And I was like, Whatever you do, just don’t take pictures. Don’t. And of course you do. And I was like, like crazy. And he just looked fine as ever. But he is so kind and so, like, so generous. And I’m like, I want to see that man in concert. I have to see him, got to see him.

 

Ira Madison III Now we have to go with you because it seems like it would be the best.

 

Danielle Pinnock Oh, my God. Let’s go. Let’s go. Let’s do it.

 

Ira Madison III Oh, thank you so much for being here, Danielle. Yeah, This was. This was. This was the boots on the ground. We did it. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Jesus. I didn’t realize it was going to be, like, in the trenches. My God, you should be an investigative journalist.

 

Ira Madison III Keep It’s new field reporter. Okay.

 

Danielle Pinnock I love it. Thank you all for having me.

 

Ira Madison III Yes. Thank you for being here. And we’re back with our favorite segment of the episode. It’s Keep It. Louis, what are you mad about this week?

 

Louis Virtel I am emotionally preparing myself for this Keep It because it’s I just can’t believe what I was in for. I successfully avoided learning what the movie Close was about. Close by this Belgian director, Lucas Donat, who seems like a rad queer guy. Didn’t know much about it. It’s nominated for Best Foreign Film at the Oscars this year. All I knew is that there was like an 11 year old boy on the cover, and it’s has something to do with a friendship he has, and they’re close friends. This movie is fucking devastating. I kind of thought it would be a heartwarming friendship tale. I’m not going to spoil what happens other than the performances by these two children are so mind blowing. I have not seen a more lived in I, I can’t call it adult because they’re not weird. They’re realistic seeming children. But the performances he got out of these children in this movie are so shocking. And I was one. I was like, What conservatory is this kid from? The director, Lucas, found this kid on a fucking train ride. Literally looked at him and cast him in this movie. He was a non-actor beforehand, and I think Lucas, his quote was he was like ten years old. But I could tell there was nostalgia in his eyes. Like, there’s just a weird depth hanging over this kid actor. I can’t really sell the movie any more other than you must see. Klaus Literally, I would say the only criticism I have of this movie is it’s so potent and so brings you back to the kinds of friendships you had and forgot about from when you were 11 years old. That it’s distracting. Like, I was like, lost in sort of thoughts, remembering like, Oh, yeah, I was friends with that kid. And then middle school came and then he went away. Or why did we stop being friends or whatever? Like, what changed with the both of us? And we were like, the kinds of friends who hugged all the time and stuff. It really gets into the depth, the real depth, not precocious depth that children have. And I, I just was not expecting it at all. And I think it’s remained extremely under the radar and just underrated in general. Like, I don’t know that I have lots of movies that I would say are a pluses this year like Tar I think is one of them. And by the way, Tar’s on Peacock right now. I just flip on Tar like it’s Parks and Recreation now. I’m like let’s check in with Lydia at Juilliard.How’s she doing? This is a movie like that, it’s like I it’s so memorable. It’s so tough, but so real and uncontrollable. There’s not a contrived moment in this movie, and I can’t say that about almost any other movie.

 

Ira Madison III I love that.

 

Louis Virtel You’re going to love it.

 

Ira Madison III Okay. So you’d say Lucas. Yes.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Lucas Do. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III No, I mean, I truly do believe that, you know, there should be more cinema devoted to friendships.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Oh, please. I’m trying to think if we had somebody on the show by now, even Carol, one of my favorite movies, one of my favorite viewing experiences of the past ten years. The scenes with just Cate Blanchett and Sarah Paulson. If it were just that, that would be. It’s an amazing movie. You know, that’s rare just to get people like at the beginning of Bridesmaids, when Kristen Wiig and Maya Rudolph, after having scammed like a free yoga in the park class, go out and sit in brunch and make each other laugh and do stupid voices. That is amazing. I just want to see that, too.

 

Ira Madison III That’s what I mean. It’s the best part about, you know, Sex and the City as I’m rewatching it, you know, seeing these women be friends with each other. And I will say that’s actually one of the disappointing things about Desperate Housewives was it went on because it necessarily became a show sort of Sex and the City is where each person would be in their own storyline each episode. And you sort of really want a show like that to be about these women interacting with each other.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, the Sex and the City, they did have independent storylines, but there was a real relief and how they came back together and compared notes, you know, they were because friendships are your colleagues in a way too, you know, like I feel like all my best gay friends and I are like gay coworkers, you know, where we’re on the same side of figuring out how to be gay in the world.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, we’re all working 9 to 5, but, you know, when some of us show up whatever we want. To gay work.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I’m a freelancer.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, well, you have to fill out the paperwork that’s on you. Yeah. What’s your Keep It. This week, Ira?

 

Ira Madison III My Keep It, goes to Nicole Kidman this week.

 

Louis Virtel What? Who should be nominated for the Northman this year? I continue to be upset about this. But why?

 

Ira Madison III That isn’t A film for me, by the way.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. She was amazing in it.

 

Ira Madison III Nicole Kidman. Because how much is she charging to do the second AMC commercial that AMC Theaters is now changing the prices of the seats in their theaters.

 

Louis Virtel I blame her singlehandedly. What is going on here, by the way? I’m my friends. All of my friends and I are on this goddamn A-list thing swapping tickets left and right. I thought we were doing the work.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I fucking love AMC A-list, and I feel like A-list. It A-list. It won’t affect us. But let’s talk a bit about the new pricing tiers on AMC. There are going to be the middle seats, which are premium seating, so that’s going to be higher than a regular ticket. It’s going to be shitty seats where you sort of like maybe don’t have the best vision in the theater and those are going to be cheaper and then all the other seats are going to be regular price. Why are we introducing dynamic pricing to movie theaters? And it just really feels like it’s sort of like nickel and diming people where they really just like, go to the fucking movies. Now you’re making going to the movie is more of a chore.

 

Louis Virtel Just to be clear, there aren’t any tickets in the theater that are less than they were before, are there?

 

Ira Madison III I think that the bad seats are going to be less than they were before.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. Because that to me is almost an okay compromise, that.

 

Ira Madison III It’s an okay compromise. But I also feel like. First of all, sometimes people just ignore the assigned seating that you have in movie theaters now, and it’s like opening night of a blockbuster and you can’t just sit wherever the fuck you are because people will yell at you. I famously, what I want to see are two of my friends. Ned and Drew tapped me on the shoulder and were like, I know you’re sitting in our seat. And I was like, Oh my God, Hi, You’re here at the theater. And I was in the wrong row. But I feel like people will buy cheap seats and then sit in the good seats.

 

Louis Virtel Scam their way up. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III And is the teenager who works at AMC really got to kick those people out of the seat?

 

Louis Virtel Now you got to have a budding Veronica Mars to care otherwise. I just don’t think it’s time you ever.

 

Ira Madison III When is the last time you remember seeing an usher like flashlight somebody and be like, you need to get out?

 

Louis Virtel No, it’s something that only happens in movies.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Yes, that only happens in movies and happen in, like, the nineties and our small town theaters.

 

Louis Virtel Right, right, right. Yeah. AMC is like, there’s too much going on at AMC. I simply. They have too much to do.

 

Ira Madison III What I saw Scream five two teenagers were just like in the the sit back chair basically just fucking the whole movie. Oh.

 

Louis Virtel Good Lord, children, we hate you also, by the way, speaking of that, so when I saw 80 for Brady this weekend, I was in the second row and.

 

Ira Madison III I saw old women fucking in the theater.

 

Louis Virtel I did not. I did not. But I was so close to the screen that it felt like an 80 for Brady immersive experience. Like, if I’m 80, I would sit this close to the screen. So I actually really recommend that to people. By the way, I need to say this about this movie, so it’s cute. You know what you’re getting. You know, it’s Jane and Lily and there’s, you know, wigs and, you know, a scene where somebody, you know, accidentally takes an edible and all that shit. You know, those movies. There is a scene where Sally Field, who, if you watch the trailer, she has a fanny pack and she says that she calls it her strap on because it’s strapped to her body. And the other girls make fun of her for calling it a strap on. Okay. Later in the movie, she loses it and she has to go find it because it has the tickets in it. She, Guy Fieri who is in the movie has this bag, so she’s looking for them. And she finally locates them in this stream of port o potties and she’s knocking on which one, trying to figure out which one he’s in. Finally, she locates him and she says, Guy Fieri, you have my strap on. And he comes out and he goes, Oh, I was expecting someone else. That is the craziest fucking joke I have ever heard in a fucking. They wrote a strap on joke for Guy Fieri.

 

Ira Madison III And Sally Field

 

Louis Virtel Oh, my God. Yeah, I said right. And they were like, we’re in.

 

Ira Madison III I still have to see it. I’m seeing it next week. It is. Do you think there’s a potential for, like, a 90 Brady?

 

Louis Virtel Yes, definitely. Well, they make jokes about that because Sally Field is not yet 80, and so her uniform says 70 Brady. But yeah, Rita Moreno who is in her nineties and it’s you know, she’s from that like Chita Rivera Jean Paul where the her leg is still going up over her head. Everything is fucking crazyfor them. Rita Moreno, I would say, gives the best performance in the movie. By the way, Jane has one very funny line. She writes erotica about Gronk, I guess, and her final line of her book. Look out for that.

 

Ira Madison III Okay. We said we’ve also got Book Club 2 come in this year. So actually. I would kind of be excited for a more another one of these films just because I’m now so enamored with Tom Brady as a celebrity. I used to not give a fuck about this man, but now that he is in for I’m Divorced. Taking thot photos in my underwear like he is a gay man on Twitter.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, I was shocked by this. Also is covering his hand underwear. Is he wearing tan underwear? Yeah. What a choice.

 

Ira Madison III Hand covering his dick, which we know is bad because we’ve seen him in underwear on SNL.. So.

 

Louis Virtel Right, right, right. Yeah. He is a sort of mysterious celebrity. Also, his relationship with Lily Tomlin in this movie is like she feels like psychically in tune with Tom Brady. She’s mentally ill. She’s a mentally ill character in this movie. And it goes on acknowledged.

 

Ira Madison III Anyway, I’m excited for Tom Brady’s new divorce era.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, I mean, it is also it is a little unfortunate that he retired like this week because there’s parallels in the movie about how, oh, if you ladies want to keep going with your lives, I won’t retire either. And then he like fucking sold out and retired. But anyway.

 

Ira Madison III He couldn’t wait till the movie came out?

 

Louis Virtel I know it was out for like 10 minutes. It was cruel.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. You got to put that in people’s contracts.

 

Louis Virtel Right, right, right.

 

Ira Madison III Right. Who? Last question. Okay. Who would you want to see an 80 for Brady about, but like in like the sports world?

 

Louis Virtel Oh, well, interestingly enough, I am obsessed with Cathy Rigby, the former gymnast, and Peter Pan. I think she should go on one last time as like a 72 year old Peter Pan. I think that would be rad. But my honest answer. Well, I guess Serena’s retired now. You couldn’t really do her, huh? Um hmm. Who would you say? I don’t know. Like Nathan Chen or something.

 

Ira Madison III Uh, a movie where four gay friends try to say Tom Daley from Dustin Lance Black.

 

Louis Virtel I think it’s too late, guys. They have that fucking cab.

 

Ira Madison III Divorce for Daley.

 

Louis Virtel Divorce for Daley?

 

Ira Madison III Uh, no. I think something fun like I’ve been, I would say a basketball one, like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar or something, or like.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, would it be a throwback, like, set in the past?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I really. You know what? I think I maybe just really want like, a live action Harlem Globetrotters Scooby Doo film.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, my God. Live action. That would be very great. Who’s playing Meadowlark Lemon? You’ve done Glover, get on out here.

 

Ira Madison III You find the Harlem Globetrotters, and you’re just solving a mystery with them.

 

Louis Virtel I loved that shit. And when, like, Freddy and Velma were like, You know who’s going to help us solve this candy factory situation? Cass Elliot?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Sure now it would be like.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. I’d be like Maya Rudolph or something.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Sherri Shepherd.

 

Louis Virtel Sherri Shepherd. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III That’s what Velma needed. Okay. Celebrity guest stars solving mysteries.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yes. Your lips to God’s ears.

 

Ira Madison III All right. Well, thank you to Danielle Pennock for joining us. This has been Keep It. We will see you next week. Keep It is a Crooked media production. Our senior producer is Kendra James. Our producer is Chris Lord, and our associate producer is Malcolm Whitfield. Our executive producers are Ira Madison, the third that’s me, and Louis Virtel. This episode was recorded and mixed by Evan Sutton. Thank you to our digital team, Matt deGroot, Nar Melkonian and Delon Villanueva for production support every week. And as always, Keep It is filmed in front of a live studio audience.

 

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