Disney D23 News & She-Hulk Ep 5 | Crooked Media
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September 16, 2022
X-Ray Vision
Disney D23 News & She-Hulk Ep 5

In This Episode

Due to the glut of content, we’re releasing two episodes this week for your listening pleasure. The episode you’re currently reading about contains all things D23, She-Hulk, Marvel, and Star Wars.


On this episode of X-Ray Vision, Jason Concepcion and Rosie Knight dress steezy with She-Hulk! In the Previously On (1:32) Jason and Rosie unpack the announcements from D23, including a few Tinfoil Hat™ theories backed by the comics. In the Airlock (1:08:38), Jason and Rosie dive deep (deeep) into She-Hulk episode 5, quickly recapping the episode, exploring the possible avenues for DareDevil’s appearance in the show, and discussing the moral complexities She-Hulk’s transformation has on her dating life and the slice-of-life challenges of being a superhero in the world.


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Send a short pitch and 2-3 minute voice memo recording to xray@crooked.com that answers the following questions: 1) How did you get into/discover your ‘Nerd Out?’ (2) Why should we get into it too? (3) What’s coming soon in this world that we can look forward to or where can we find it? 


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The Listener’s Guide for all things X-Ray Vision!

Secret Invasion (2008-09) by Brian Michael Bendis, Leinil Francis Yu, Mark Morales, and Laura Martin.


Thunderbolts created by Kurt Busiek and Mark Bagley.


Truth: Red, White, and Black (2003) by Robert Morales and Kyle Baker.


Dakota North, created by Martha Thomases and Tony Salmons; debuted in Dakota North #1 (1986).


She-Hulk (2014-2015)  by Charles Soule and Javier Pulido. An acclaimed run with clear influences on She-Hulk: Attorney at Law.

A-Force, created by Marguerite Bennett, G. Willow Wilson, and Jorge Molina, first appearing in Secret Wars before debuting in their own series in 2015.







Jason Concepcion You are listening to the She-Hulk and D23 episode of X-ray Vision this week. And just a warning, this episode contains lots of spoilers from She-Hulk Episode five and we’re spitting a lot of theories on the MCU and talking about stuff from D23. So be warned. And. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion and welcome to X-ray Vision, the Crooked podcast where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture. There are so much stuff happening this week and so we’re making things easier for our listeners by releasing two episodes. Episode number one covered House of the Dragon, including our recap of Episode four plus Ask the Master. Episode two, which you’re listening to, is Marvel with She-Hulk Episode five plus our analysis of all the announcements from D23 over the weekend and what they mean for the MCU. You want to jump around, of course. Check the show notes for the timestamps. And joining me today in episode number two for this week is writer and comics encyclopedia, Rosie Knight, Rosie, how are you?


Rosie Knight Hello. Oh, can’t believe we’re here again.


Jason Concepcion We’re here again.


Rosie Knight So quickly.


Jason Concepcion We’re here again. Let’s talk. Let’s get into the news from D23. Well. The D23 Expo has come and gone and it is time to unpack the teasers, the trailers, the announcements and more what they might mean for the MCU. It is time to irresponsibly make predictions. Let’s start with Secret Invasion, the trailer of which was released on the Internet. This Disney Plus show stars Martin Freeman reprising his role as Everett K. Ross. CIA agent Everett K. Ross. Starring Samuel Jackson as Nick Fury. Ben Mendelsohn as Talos. Don Cheadle as War Machine out of the armor. Now, apparently some sort of of government official in the Department of Defense of some sort. Cobie Smulders back as Maria Hill. Olivia Colman confirmed as Special Agent Sonya Falsworth. Kingsley Ben-Adir confirmed as Gravik. Emilia Clarke as we don’t know?


Rosie Knight The secret role.


Jason Concepcion Folks, let’s talk about it, because this first of all, trailer is great. Real, you know, real Captain America. The Winter Soldier Vibes. Civil War vibes.


Rosie Knight Very spy. Even more like a British spy movie that you see.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight Feige had promised that this was going to be way more intimate than the Secret Invasion event. And you can see it’s going for this kind of suspenseful spy thriller vibe.


Jason Concepcion So the question is, how much is this going to take from the Secret Invasion events? So just to jump back, Rosie, would you like to tell the folks what Secret Invasion was?


Rosie Knight So Secret Invasion is just like it’s kind of hard to talk about how unbelievably impactful it was. Yeah. So it’s like, it was like June 2008, January 2009, classic event style. It was a series. It was a series, but with a ton of kind of spin offs. Incredible creative team on the main, which is Brian Michael Bendis, Leinil Francis Yu, Mark Morales, Laura Martin. And essentially the baseline is that you discover that many of the heroes that we assumed were our most famous heroes were actually shapeshifting Skrulls who had been put in every different level of heroism and government. And it had the best tagline, which was Who do you trust?


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight And it was just it was groundbreaking. It also is one of the best events for spin offs. We talk a lot about Secret Wars and stuff. But there is an unbelievable Black Panther spin off that came out of this called See Wakanda and Die, which was just so cool. And basically, the notion is that you are going to find out which heroes are not heroes and are actually villains. And this just there’s so much fun stuff in this. So this is obviously not something that’s going to happen in the show. But I think about this all the time, which is the only person who can tell who the Skrulls are throughout Secret Invasion is 3D Man with his 3D glasses. So he’s seeing Skrulls and he’s like yo, that’s a fucking Skrull. And they’re like, No, man, that’s like Hawkeye, you know? So this was like, this is the kind of event that I feel like. We don’t get to see as many of them anymore, but we occasionally do. But this reshaped the entire way people saw the Marvel Universe and the way that the Marvel Universe saw heroes, which is very relevant to this, because another announcement we got was Thunderbolt. So we’ll get to that in a minute. But yeah, Skrulls, they’re here. They’ve been here for a long time. And in the comic book event, it was like, nobody’s safe.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight Anyone could be a squirrel. And this was a way for them to the Skrull empire to take over Earth. Now, in this, we know from what Feige said that it’s going to be much smaller scale. But the one thing we can assume is that there is going to be at least one character, but maybe two, who are key to the MCU, who are going to be revealed as Skrulls. That has to happen.


Jason Concepcion That has to happen. Now, before we get into who’s a Skrull. I just want to say that like this era of of Marvel Comics even starting with like Avengers disassembled. Going into another Secret War. The first Secret War, Annihilation. House of M, Decimation, Civil War, the Planet Hulk, World War Hulk and then into Secret Invasion and then Dark Reign, which wasn’t really an event, more like a wide line wide reboot. It was a really incredible era of Marvel Comics, where all the events affected everything that happened. After you talked about what an incredible like jumping off point Secret Invasion was, because Secret Invasion created this like Air of paranoia in Marvel Comics. Where all of a sudden. Dark Reign became possible because everybody was like, Hold on. The superheroes got in a civil war with each other, fighting each other. And then we find out that many of them aren’t even who they say they are. They were actually Skrulls. So how can we trust them? And then turned into this whole thing where Norman Osborn took power and that end had a secret like Avengers team that. And so it really feels like as we go into Thunderbolts, that is what we’re setting up right now. Whatever happens after Secret Wars is going to be. We’re going to see a world and an MCU that is less trustful of heroes.


Rosie Knight Mm hmm. Yeah. And something that I think is, like, really interesting that this kind of ties into that I had never really considered before, right? So we’ve talked a lot about how do you build a world that doesn’t trust people with powers? It’s Secret Invasion. It’s not it doesn’t even have to have the political machinations and all the other stuff that we’ve already seen them bring in really well with Ms.. Marvel and kind of that we talked about. They’re so key to the X-Men. But Secret Invasion is your real jumping off point for that, because not only are some of these heroes actually Skrulls who’ve been posing there for years, but also the heroes they have taken over. I just like hidden off somewhere and like, couldn’t even escape. Like, that’s the worst thing. Is like, not only are they not the heroes you thought, but the heroes you thought have been trapped. So what kind of heroes are they?


Jason Concepcion There is a moment in this where we see, you know, bodies in stasis, in some kind of room. Olivia Colman’s character and another agent kind of like have found this area leading us to believe that, yes, over time and over the years. Certainly not. Talos’ group of Skrulls, but some other more imperialistic, more warlike sect of Skrulls because the Skrull empire is really big, spanning many, many planets, and it would make sense there’d be different factions within that. This more warlike faction has over time been spent steadily replacing probably influential people, and we would imagine some heroes with Skrulls. The question is, for how long now? There is a moment in this trailer where we see, you know, there’s a lot of fun stuff in this trailer. But so Nick Fury says, like, you know, this is my war alone. I’m the last person standing between them. And and then you see, like this this closet open with this like, silver case inside. And the case has like is like on ice or refrigerator or something because they open it. It’s like steaming. And so you’re led to believe because of the voiceover in these images like, okay, it stands between them and what? Do you have any theories on what is in the case?


Rosie Knight I mean, there’s so much stuff like in my mind, I have like wild comic book theories. I feel like the the safest, most MCU bet is some kind of Stark tech more some kind of cosmic. You know, I don’t think they’re going to bring the Infinity Gems back again, but I feel like it’s something with a world ending or world shifting possibility. But I’m very interested to know what you think it maybe.


Jason Concepcion The Infinity formula.


Rosie Knight Oh, okay. Yes, yes. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, yes, yes.


Jason Concepcion So, so. So part of the way in the comics that they explain how Nick Fury could have could have served in World War II at a commando. In a commando cadre like is is the leader of the Holland commandos and then also be running around like in the eighties, nineties and 2000s with various other super heroes is that he at at a certain point in time was injected with this formula, the infinite formula that just dramatically slows his aging. He still looks like a middle aged man, but, you know, he’s like 99, 102, whatever is very, very old. I so my theory is whatever is in that case is whatever the MCU version of the infinity form is, is Nick Fury injected with something? It is. Is that the case? Is he a lot older than we actually know about? He’s been running around for a while. I’m not saying that, but I think that it’s that’s I think that my theory. It’s whatever version of the Infinity formula.


Rosie Knight I think it’s a very safe bet because that could also be the deus ex machina that the MCU has been looking for when it comes to the the constant struggle of how to cast Magneto and Charles know in the X-Men. So I think that the introduction of some kind of infinity formula, some elixir of life, that could be very likely. Yeah, I’m very interested to see what it is that the Skrulls could possibly want from Earth other than to just invade it. Now, the other option that I do think is likely that could tie in and this is this is pretty out there, but I think it could work. We know that. Ms.. Marvel and Captain Marvel at that Carol Danvers at the end of the episode. And we learned more about this at D23. Yes, we’ll talk about it in a bit. But we know that the the nega band, whatever version that they have of those, are allowing them to switch places. We know that those are of Kree origin. The Kree-Skrull War. I wonder if there’s a version of it where it’s some kind of artifact like that that allows that switch, that allows them to control other people because it’s very useful as a Skrull. So yeah, I’m very interested because I feel like there’s things that are so innate to Secret Invasion, like the Super Skrull, that you can’t necessarily do without the Fantastic Four. So I’m I’m very intrigued to see how the MCU recontextualizes this as an introduction to do all those other cool Skrull stories that we haven’t really gotten to see.


Jason Concepcion Here’s my other potential theory. Super Skrulls don’t exist yet, but the Skrulls find out about super soldier or some other type of zero. And they think, what would happen if we. What if we created Super Skrulls? Our own Super Soldier Skrulls that could then take over the universe.


Rosie Knight Maybe that’s what’.


Jason Concepcion How do we know?


Rosie Knight Yeah, maybe that’s what’s in the box. Maybe it’s super soldier serum because Nick knows about that. You know, that’s. And we know that super soldier serum is going to be it’s coming back into play, which will also.


Jason Concepcion Oh, big time. My only thing with that is, is that then too much like have we done is it too much super soldier serum at this point after the Falcon and the Winter Soldier, etc.? Is it too much about this?


Rosie Knight Yeah, well, they see that in the Captain America world and this is something different. Yeah. It’s going to be very interesting. It’s it’s something that I think all of us as fans, especially if you grew up and you were reading those comics when they came out, have always wanted to see. And I feel like this is a very different vision of it. But, you know, when a soldier is one of the most highly regarded and beloved MCU movies, so I it’s cool to see them going back to the spy genre space. There’s some other big questions here as well.


Jason Concepcion Like, yeah.


Rosie Knight Yeah. I mean, Amelia Clarke, I have my theory. Who is she?


Jason Concepcion Okay, tell me, who do you think so?


Rosie Knight I think from the beginning I assumed that she was going to be playing Jessica Drew Spider-Woman, a.k.a. the Skrull Emperess.


Jason Concepcion I love it.


Rosie Knight Veranke, who posed as Jessica Drew. Now, from watching this trailer, I would say if they’re going to do it, they’re going to have to re-imagine it. She’s Agent Jessica Drew.


Jason Concepcion Right.


Rosie Knight Of Department of damage control or something I don’t think is going to be exactly the same character. But as soon as they won, you don’t cost me like like a No one role.


Jason Concepcion Right right.


Rosie Knight And as soon as I saw her, I’m just thinking like, you get to have this dueling thing where she could be the real Jessica Drew, but she can also be Veraanke. It’s a duel role. Well, that’s my hope and my kind of my wish. And also they could maybe get around the Sony stuff because she’s technically not her in the show.


Jason Concepcion Right? Yeah.


Rosie Knight Because she’s a Skrull, you know. So I think that is that’s my that’s my big guess. That’s my my that’s my curveball.


Jason Concepcion I love that one. I think I’m hoping that it’s that. I wonder would they give her the Spider-Woman powers at any point.


Rosie Knight That’s what I want to know. And so this is another really interesting thing. Right. I wonder and this I would I know that they can pull this off if they do it this way, even though it’s not necessarily the version that we envisioned. I wonder if we are more. You are the one I believe if first put this theory into my head about Maria Hill being the most likely Skrull. I think that is very true. And I wonder if, because of the complexity of how Skrulls replicate powers, which in the comics is like a very long, ongoing thing you have to explain. I do wonder whether we’re going to see Skrulls who have infiltrated the government and maybe non powered people. More like maybe like a warmer, you know, a roadie or something. Or Sam even instead of you’re more classically like strangely powered superheroes.


Jason Concepcion Well, let me put this to you. We suspect and I think the D23 offerings heavily imply that Thunderbolts is going to come out of Secret Invasion.


Rosie Knight Absolutely.


Jason Concepcion And it’s going to be. Hashtag, we were right. It’s going to be a kind of Dark Reign situation where this where there is mistrust of light.


Rosie Knight Light, dark rain.


Jason Concepcion We can’t trust our heroes anymore. We need the heroes that follow orders. And you look at that lineup and it’s all soldiers, right? So, you know, we want the ones that will do what they’re told and we’ll be the be the heroes that fight for us. Now. Understanding that it would probably be difficult IP wise and maybe a little more complex to have like Norman Osborn actually be like the main guy at the head of a kind of like Dark Reign regime in the MCU. I do wonder, one, if the Contessa Valentina de Fontaine doesn’t become like the Norman Osborn figure, the more political figure, the leader of the team, but also like a politician. And if she’s not a Skrull, could she be Skrull?


Rosie Knight She could definitely be a Skrull. In fact, I think because of the massive stunt casting and kind of that big reveal of it being Julia Louis-Dreyfus, like I feel that that it’s kind of like when you watch a murder mystery, like the first season of only murders in the building, it was easy to guess who the murderer was because you were like, Oh, this. They probably wouldn’t have cast this person if they want the murderer. So I do feel like she has big Skrull energy. Also, I think there’s a lot of potential here, something the MCU set up that was very unusual in Captain Marvel, that was very controversial was this notion is like a certain segment of Skrulls being like essentially like space refugees.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight Who were not violent, who were not invaders, who were not this kind of maniacal force like they are in the comics. So I think we could definitely see some collaboration, both between good and more morally gray Skrulls. So I think it wouldn’t surprise me if you had someone like the Contessa who is a Skrull. It’s revealed, but has been working with someone on earth, someone human, some kind of monarch. I would. I could not just even comprehend how cool it would be if they managed to build Norman Osborn into this. It kind of blows my mind. Maybe down the line. Maybe down the line. But no. No. I think the fact that she was actually in the line up of the Thunderbolts.


Jason Concepcion Right.


Rosie Knight That was a that’s.


Jason Concepcion That that’s a huge deal.


Rosie Knight Big moment.


Jason Concepcion Huge deal.


Rosie Knight And this is like you said, like that Thunderbolts reveal. It’s there’s some things that we were right about. I had always said they were going to put Bucky on that team. There was a very popular Thunderbolts run where Bucky was on the team that people really loved. But it is very interesting because it is this notion of soldiers. It is also a notion of people that the MCU would want us to think are almost anti-heroes rather than villains, whereas the original Thunderbolts arc, which is just like so outrageous. And I still sort of think about all the time they actually happened, which was the Kurt Busiek, Mark Bagley Vince Russell, Joe Roses.


Jason Concepcion That was like a craze at the time. It was just an absolute craze.


Rosie Knight They announced this new team, because The Avengers are gone and they bring the book and they introduce this team and you’re like, Whoa, these are like crazy ninties kind of character designs. Like, Could this really be a new superhero team? How often does a stick and in the final pages, a spoiler alert from this comic from 1997. But in the final pages, you learn that it’s Zemo and it’s the Masters of Evil. So to me, I wonder if, well, it’s ex-members of the Masters of  Evil, none of whom have the original Thunderbolts line up in this team. So this is my really out there theory is that this line up is the fake out and that really the team is going to be other people in disguise as those heroes or something along those lines, because that would be very Thunderbolt ish or that the person who is actually in charge is Zemo. Because I think that’s the most that’s the most kind of shocking non. Inclusion here.


Jason Concepcion I would. One, I would love that. And two, you know, other than you know Thanos’s lackeys. And you know, it’s Captain America Civil War. We haven’t seen a lot of we haven’t seen team on team fights.


Rosie Knight No.


Jason Concepcion You know, Masters of Evil versus The Avengers, that kind of thing. We haven’t seen a lot of that. And it would be really cool. It would just be really cool to have a Thunderbolts team that becomes that is the Masters of Evil or the MCU version of the Masters of Evil, either overtly or covertly, that then has to go toe to toe with an Avengers team.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion That is like, you know, either on the run because the government and society is turning against them or who are fighting to clear their names from whatever, you know, whatever, whatever frame the government and the Contessa or Zemo has put them in.


Rosie Knight Something that we’ve seen so many, we see it so much in comics that it’s almost like so in Batman, that story that you always get is like somebody releasing the virus. In Marvel Comics, and specifically like Spider-Man Avengers comics, somebody has framed the superhero.


Jason Concepcion Yes, exactly.


Rosie Knight He’s done something wrong. And guess what? We’ve seen that in many superhero movies at this point. But I think your very own point, I think some people will be getting framed. Something about this that really excites me as well is the MCU has long rightfully been critiqued about the way it militarized the heroes, which was very much to do with the the popularity of the Ultimates T Comics and the way it was very easy to make a ground level superhero team. Also, the original X-Men movies did the same thing with the way the uniforms are envisioned. It’s very exciting to me to imagine a world where you have the militarized government team as the antagonists and you have a grass roots, ground level team of heroes who have to fight against them without the might of Stark Tech or the might of the U.S. government behind them. That is really cool and could be very, very exciting.


Jason Concepcion I’m super, super excited about it. We should just quickly run down the Thunderbolts, line up Valentino, Alegria de Fontaine, Ghost.


Rosie Knight I was so happy to see that.


Jason Concepcion Ant-Man and the WASP really cool inclusion. Red Guardian, David Harbour Yelena, Of course. Bucky Barnes. Wow. US Agent There’s going to be some friction there and Taskmaster.


Rosie Knight Okay, okay.


Jason Concepcion Which is fantastic.


Rosie Knight Okay, so I have a theory here as well. This is another theory. What if this seems most likely of all my wild theories, my tinfoil hat ideas, but what if? So, Ghost that is very much an empathetic anti-hero who was a villain only of circumstance. Right?


Jason Concepcion Right.


Rosie Knight Yelena That is someone who has been tortured and exploited and ended up in a space where they are on a path for redemption. I would say Bucky is the same. I would say Red Guardian, Taskmaster, U.S. Agent. There is a version where we see those three split off as this more militarized. They will do whatever.


Jason Concepcion The masters of the massive.


Rosie Knight Evil.


Rosie Knight Masters of evil, even just like they will do whatever that Valentina wants to the point where it’s shocking the other three. And I feel like there’s a world where we see a split in the team because to me, I know that the end of Falcon and the Winter Soldier wanted us to feel like Wyatt. I mean, I love Wyatt Russell, so that’s why I thought him. But U.S. Agent, I should say, was, like, doing something good. But that motherfucker killed a man.


Jason Concepcion He. He beheaded.


Rosie Knight On the street with a fucking Captain America shield. Like, he is not an anti-hero. He is a villain. He has always been a villain. That is the point of the character in the comics, even though he has obviously gone to more of an anti-hero. So I think that that him being next to Bucky, for example, that doesn’t exactly make sense to me or him being next to Ghost. So I could see this being the team as it begins. But there’s definitely a space for a moral split.


Jason Concepcion I agree with you. I think that, you know, again, just irresponsibly making predictions, I would imagine a circumstance where the Contessa puts this team together and they go on a mission and she presents it as one way. Here’s what the mission is and here’s what we’re doing and here’s we’re fighting against. That is in Nick Fury, fashion, a lie, but in Contessa Valentina de Fontaine fashion like a orders of magnitude worse lie than the kind of lies fury tells. And what happens is Yelena and Bucky and figure out, Oh, we’re fighting or doing something that we shouldn’t be doing that’s not just illegal but morally wrong. And we don’t want to do this anymore. And that’s the kind of thing that causes the split. I am I am super excited. I can’t wait for Thunderbolts. Really really excited about it.


Rosie Knight Okay, let me, the one thing I want to ask you. Just 1,1 last question because I’m just thinking about this. So we assumed that obviously Baron Zemo would be in this team. Obviously Abomination would be in this team. Maybe Sharon Carter because she’s power broker. This team has no original Thunderbolts like Songbird, which I think a lot of people thought this would be where she would debut and it doesn’t have those other characters. What does that say to you in your theory mind?


Jason Concepcion It’s I think it says to me what you pointed out, which is at some point there is someone in disguise. There’s going to be a reveal here that we’re not seeing.


Rosie Knight Mm hmm.


Jason Concepcion A deeper reveal. And so I wonder if, gosh, I think that that’s what it’s going. I think there’s going to be some kind of reveal here. And we’re going to find out that maybe one or more of the original thunderbolts are masquerading as some of our characters. But who? What do you think?


Rosie Knight You know, I think you’re right. And also something that I always try and remind myself, because it was such a fleeting moment. We have seen Black Widow use technology that just changes her face to someone else’s face. And we’re going to be in a post Skrulls world. So I think that yeah, I think there’s some kind of masquerading, some kind of shielding, some kind of big reveal that’s going to make this a bit more like a classical Thunderbolt.


Jason Concepcion Let me ask you this. So there is a at a certain point in time, I forget which run of Thunderbolts this was a a hero slash villain named Cobalt Man joins the team but actually it was Tony Stark undercover.


Rosie Knight Fucking Tony.


Jason Concepcion Are any are any of or are any of these members working undercover for Nick informing for Nick Fury?


Rosie Knight I’m going to  tell you.


Jason Concepcion For somebody else.


Rosie Knight 100 Percent who that is, it’s Bucky Barnes, this guy this guy was just the sidekick of Captain America. Like it is. It is absolutely Bucky Barnes. Nick Fury probably sent him in there to keep an eye on the Thunderbolts. He said to him, You want to make up your debt, you want to, you know, cross these names out of your ledger. You need to be on this team and make sure it’s got  to be him. Because everyone else, I’m like, you know what? They could get tricked, they could have vengeance. They could be offered something that they wanted. But after the journey that Bucky went on with Sam, I just don’t see a world where he is there for. Well, I don’t know. I also don’t see a world where he would ever willingly.


Jason Concepcion I don’t see it either. Yeah, you’re right.


Rosie Knight Choose to be part of a government agency again after what was done to him.


Jason Concepcion Obviously, he’s traumatized and has been through some really bad stuff. But this is Bucky Barnes prizes his free will and his agency. That greatly because that was taken from him. Right. You know, like he was not able because of his programing, to really trust his intentions, his actions and trust it like he wouldn’t turn into this marauding supervillain. So I think if there is an undercover person who is informing for the heroes, I think you’re right that it would be him. I would add that we were right about a couple of things. One, that the name Thunderbolts was in honor of Thunderbolt Ross.


Rosie Knight That hasn’t been fully confirmed, but the line up kind of teases that our theory was absolutely right about that.


Jason Concepcion And that’s and we were right that Bucky will be a member of the team because we said that they would that they would there’d be this movement to be like, we want the soldiers who are also superheroes who are going to follow orders. And that’s it. Let’s, I want to talk briefly about like this idea that’s kind of been out there that people have been writing about, that the Thunderbolts is like the MCU suicide squad, which is I get it. I kind of understand I kind of understand that take. But also, that’s a. That’s a take when you don’t when you’re not kind of like experienced with what the comic book properties are because they’re completely different.


Rosie Knight I think I think it’s one of those things, something that we talk about. It’s like when you read the comics and you know what the teams are, it’s like quite frustrating because they’re very they’re very different brilliant ideas. The enforced government taskforce of heroes who will be kill villains, who will be killed if they don’t do the worst jobs that nobody wants. That’s the Suicide Squad, Thunderbolts, a team of villains pretending to be heroes to gain the trust of a nation during a power vacuum. That is a really cool, other unique idea, but something that I think, like you said, you can get it. Something we talk about a lot is the cyclical nature of of these publishers and the way that they constantly take from each other. They take inspiration. And we’ve seen it in the films, too.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight We’re not going to talk about this very deeply, but I will mention, because it’s a great example, the final Black Adam trailer came out looks really cool. You know what they did?


Jason Concepcion X-Men they.


Rosie Knight They they made Dr. Fate Charles Xavier. They gave him the black bird and put him in the Xavier mansion. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Castle Loma in Toronto and they made him the X-Men before the Marvel had done the X-Men. Marvel did the same thing with Thanos. Jim Starling ripped off Thanos from Dark Side because he loved Jack Kirby, and then Marvel did Thanos before Darkside in the movie.


Rosie Knight But Lobo is Wolverine. It just goes. It goes on and on and on and on and on forever. Right. And this in that way, I can understand why people would theorize that they will become the mcu’s version of the Suicide Squad, because if it is what we have been told so far, which is very little, if the Contessa is making a government team of heroes from inverted commas villains, then that is very similar to the Suicide Squad. But to me, I feel like you’re missing out if you don’t just go and read those comics and see how different they are because the Suicide Squad.


Jason Concepcion Is very, very different.


Rosie Knight Even like the James Gunn, the most recent Suicide Squad movie is like so brilliant. And it gives you a great insight into the the way that it’s this exploration of exploitation of prisoners and the violence of being a hero and the things that the government would make heroes do if they could control them. And that aspect of it, I do think we will see in Thunderbolts, but they’re very different guys. They’re very different Yeah.


Jason Concepcion Yeah. A very basic level Suicide Squad is our villains, prisoners forced to work for the government, whereas the Thunderbolts are villains pretending to be heroes so that they can take over the government.


Rosie Knight Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. That’s a great way. That’s very succint.


Jason Concepcion Werewolf By Night. Let’s talk about the Werewolf By Night trailer. This this premieres on Disney plus October 7th, just in time for Halloween. And this man this looks absolutely fantastic, directed by Michael Giacchino, written by Peter Cameron and Heather Quinn. Black and white horror vibes.


Rosie Knight Very universal monsters.


Jason Concepcion Yes. As Jack Russell, The Werewolf by Night, which is the character name Jack Russell never fails to make me laugh.


Rosie Knight That last thing about it. I think it was Jerry Conway who came up with the name Jack Russell and in tomorrow’s which is this unbelievable fanzine back issue 71, he was asked about it and he did say it was unintentional. Jack Russell was if it was intentional, it was subconscious. And he never thought about it as an intentional problem, which I just find like so fucking funny.


Jason Concepcion I don’t. Yeah.


Rosie Knight How can you believe it? You can’t believe it. But that’s what Jerry says. Jerry, come on the show. Tell us about Jack Russell. We need to know.


Jason Concepcion Okay.


Rosie Knight Jack Russell, one of the best werewolf names of all time. This looks so weird. I mean, we are huge fans of Michael Giacchino, unbelievable composer. So I’m very excited to see him bring his his talents to the. Two, the visual language of the MCU. Also, we get the new banner here, which is the Marvel Studios special presentation, which is kind of this like seventies. Almost like Boogie Nights looking thing, which I love, because it’s like, well, it’s like really campy. Also probable confirmation here. I’m pretty sure that Laura Donnelly is playing Elsa Bloodstone. Another massive Marvel horror character that we were all really sure that she would show up in this.


Jason Concepcion Elsa Bloodstone, who descends from a family of monster hunters. And she’s she’s always kind of like hunting these dark monsters throughout the history of her appearance in the MCU, I. Do you think this takes place? Like here’s I wonder if this doesn’t take place in the fictional 1970s of the MCU.


Rosie Knight I’m very interested to see. So, She-Hulk, we cannot confirm this. We will be able we will be able to confirm this tomorrow. But right now, I cannot confirm this. This is just something that we have been thinking about a long time. It seems like tomorrow this week, She-Hulk is going to confirm the notion that comic books exist in the MCU as a way of telling stories. I wouldn’t be surprised if, because of how stylistic this is, this is a fictionalized version of something that happened in the MCU. It looks like, are you or maybe it’s some kind of Moon Knight situation where it’s somebody’s version of it. I love this notion of this special presentation as if it’s not. 100% canon, but it’s so stylistically different too. And it doesn’t look you could show that somebody and they and tell them it’s not Marvel if you don’t show them the introduction.


Jason Concepcion 100%. Yes


Rosie Knight It’s really abstract. It’s very Universal Monsters. It’s all shadows. It’s cabinet of Dr. Caligari, like German expressionism. It’s really strange. I did not think they were going to go this hard, but they’re also something that’s very cool. These comics, brilliant comics, were black and white.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight The Marvel horror comics were black and white, too. Tomb of Dracula, Werewolf By Night. So this is also a very cool way of bringing that to life and to have Elsa Bloodstone, I mean, that’s just a huge addition to the character, even though she’s like a relatively new character from like 2001, she is a massive part of the Marvel Horror world. And was I right? I don’t know if I ever specifically predicted this, but I have been manifesting it. This trailer does feature Man-Thing, Marvel’s giant size Man-Thing, the best name of any character ever. One of my all time favorite characters again. Part of that Swamp Thing, Man-Thing. Those little.


Jason Concepcion Who ripped off who.


Rosie Knight Who ripped who, those are the like two comparisons. Another famous one, that Doom Patrol and X-Men. Just remember that one guys, it’s going to become very relevant when the X-Men come into the MCU. But yeah, Man-Thing, this is Marvel horror is here. How does it play into the wider MCU? That is the big question.


Jason Concepcion That’s the big, big question. And we oh, man, I gosh, I am very excited to find out the She-Hulk mid-season trailer has arrived. Not that we needed it, but we got it. And folks, She-Hulk continues to be super fun.


Rosie Knight Yeah, it’s great. And Daredevil is going to be in it, which we kind of knew. But this is like more confirmation in case you were worried because he hadn’t turned up after four episodes. But Matt Murdock is going to be in Daredevil, good for Matt Murdock. He was also there talking about Daredevil: Born Again at D23. Say is a very sweet things.


Jason Concepcion Very exciting. Very exciting. Next up, Captain America, New World Order has some of the cast confirmed. First of all. Of course. Anthony Mackie returning as Sam Wilson, Captain America. Folks, the leader is back. We’ve been waiting. We’ve been waiting for the leader to return. We’ve been saying he’s got to come back at some point. We were wondering if it was going to be She-Hulk. Well, folks, it’s going to be Captain America, New World. It could still be She-Hulk.


Rosie Knight It could still be She-Hulk, but he’s back. We were right. He is coming back with his big old head, another.


Jason Concepcion That looks like big, long head.


Rosie Knight We are on the DC Marvel rip off train today because this motherfucker looks like an Sinestro from the Green Latern.


Jason Concepcion Yes, he really does. Of course.


Rosie Knight But yeah, Sammy Sterns is the leader. Tim Blake Nelson’s such a fantastic character actor, so I’m just really excited to see that.


Jason Concepcion This will also be the debut of Sabra, the Israeli superhero played by Shira Haas. Carl Lumbly as Isaiah Bradley.


Rosie Knight The first Captain America let’s please keep that in the canon because they don’t mention it in the MCU but in the comics.


Jason Concepcion Absolutely huge. And Danny Ramirez as the Falcon, the new Falcon.


Rosie Knight That is a huge that’s that’s a really big bit of news, I feel like.


Jason Concepcion I agree. I agree. Because we didn’t really get a lot of we didn’t get a lot of of Joaquin in the show. And we certainly didn’t get a didn’t get any kind of inkling of his abilities. So this will be very this is going to be this is huge. This is a big deal.


Rosie Knight Yeah. We’ve talked a lot about the super soldier serum today already. And I think this is this casting announcement proves to me that Captain America New World Order is going to continue the power broker esque storyline from Falcon, the Winter Soldier. And it’s obviously going to be about super soldiers because you have Isaiah Bradley.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight Who in the in the MCU was one of the first people who was tested on the super soldier serum. But in the comics was was the first Captain America who was out on the field in the.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight I just one of the best comics ever read ever written. They, they recently actually republished it for the first time in like ten years. So go and see it.


Jason Concepcion Truth: Red, White and Black.


Rosie Knight Yeah, just absolutely brilliant. And having Isaiah there, having the leader there who we suspect might be the one who’s trying to get She-Hulk blood, which in this case is connected to the super soldier serum. Because in the Incredible Hulk movie from 2008, we learn that Bruce gets his powers, much like The Ultimates Comics. Thank you, producer Chris, for that one. That that’s where he gets his powers is trying to replicate the super soldier serum. But instead of using gamma ray, instead of using vital radiation like the original method, he changes it for gamma radiation helps orchestrated. A bad plan. So this is a super soldier serum based story. Now, the interesting thing is in the comics, Sabra is a mutant in this, is she going to get her powers from the super soldier serum or is she going to be a mutant?


Jason Concepcion It’s interesting. You know, we’ve. Okay, we’ve got it, obviously. Kamala Khan is a mutant, right? Okay, we have that. The question is and, you know, we can argue about whether her powers are, you know, what portion of her powers come from mutation, what portion come from the bangle.


Rosie Knight But Wanda though, does  also have naturally occurring powers?


Jason Concepcion Wanda also has naturally occurring powers, but who is going to be the first like like they are a mutant? Their powers are derived purely from mutation. We know that’s what it is. Everybody knows what’s with the it’s that. And there is no secondary factor like the ability like magical powers, which again, Wanda, it is part of her mutation is her ability, her affinity for magic. But it is something else is this kind of inherent power that is that resides in their own DNA and isn’t something that is like amplified by an outside power source. And I do wonder, will it be Sabra, will she be a mutant? I mean it’s a good question. I don’t know the answer. Other news. Ke Huy Quan as a TV agent in and Loki season two.


Rosie Knight I feel like I love this because they were like, he is a TVA agent. I’m sorry. After after everything I’ve read all at once. And prior to his inevitable Oscar win that is coming. He is not just playing a TVA agent. That is.


Jason Concepcion No, there’s something else.


Rosie Knight Major character.


Jason Concepcion That is something else.


Rosie Knight And also the TVA is obviously going to become a big part of this, not just because we got Kang stuff down the line, but even in Werewolf By Night there were TVA agents with their time batons. So this is a very big part coming and I was so happy to see this. I love Ke Huy Quon. I love. Everything everyone wants. I love Indiana Jones. I love the Goonies. Icon. Happy he’s there.


Jason Concepcion Is there any. Is there any world in which he plays? He’s like a he’s like a hero undercover that eventually is revealed as a hero, that we know?


Rosie Knight That is, if there is any justice in the world and they know what they have by being able to cast him. I think that’s what it has to be. He doesn’t you don’t just cast him as a as a TVA agent. You cast him as someone who’s there with a motivation that becomes an ally to Loki, who at some point you reveal has powers or some kind of longer running space within the MCU.


Jason Concepcion Up next, Matt Shakman confirmed to direct the Fantastic Four movie. No casting announcement, no trailer, no nothing. Just that Matt Chapman will be the director.


Rosie Knight Congrats to that, Matt.


Jason Concepcion Congrats to him. According Jason Carroll on Twitter, quote, FYI, for the most part does not want to make big casting decisions without getting input from his director, which I think seems wise. Of course, there were a ton of rumors flying before D23, but we’ll wait to see what emerges from there. But just terribly exciting that we are on the road to a Fantastic Four movie. Of course we saw the logo some months ago, but this is super exciting. New Wakanda Forever Black Panther footage. And we get an idea of what the plot is about here from Collider is a description quote In the exclusive clip shown to the audience, we see Queen Ramonda arrive at the United Nations with a group of men. They sit the men push their microphones down, spotlighting the queen’s presence in the room. A representative from the U.S. starts to complain about the fact that Wakanda has not shared their vibranium with the world. And a French representative similarly speaks up, saying that Vibranium has the potential to be a weapon of mass destruction because the material can’t be detected by metal detectors. It has to be shared for the sake of global security. But despite these dramatic declarations, Ramonda makes it very clear why Wakandans do not trade vibranium and never have, never will. It is their policy to never trade vibranium under any circumstances, not because of the danger of vibranium, but because of the dangerous potential of outsiders using this material. And so here again, one thing that’s extremely clear. You know, it’s been kind of, I think, one of the kind of criticisms, or at least, you know, complaints that people have had is like, what is the what is the MCU about now? What what what phase we’re in? What is what is the general direction? The general direction is, as we’re seeing with the Armor Wars and as we’re seeing with Wakanda Forever, as we’re seeing with the Secret Wars into Thunderbolts is. All of this stuff is out there. The the armor Tony Stark’s armor is out in the world. Vibranium is leaking out and and governments are concerned about it. People that are uncontrollable have superpowers now and now is like the reaction from the rest of the world towards the revelations that have happened in the previous phases. I think this is really. A super smart take on a Black Panther sequel.


Rosie Knight I think it’s really, really clever. I’m very interested to see the way they go with this, because the whole point of Wakanda originally was like, what if this space existed that had never been colonized? That had never been destroyed, that had never had its resources drained and stolen. You know, so to them, put them in this position where exactly that is, has potential to happen and it will also. We know that in this world T’challa is dead. We know that that will be happening in Black Panther two, that he will die. People see it as a power vacuum, and that is going to encourage Wakanda to make the tough decision of who the next Black Panther will be.


Jason Concepcion I wonder what triggers Namor’s attack on Wakanda? Is it like? Is he a hired gun? Is somebody like did you like did they contact him and be like, go in there, steal the vibranium? Like.


Rosie Knight I think I think what it’s going to be is like if. If people know about this one secret place that has vibranium, that has these resources. Then are they putting other secret places at risk? Like we could definitely also have had a situation where Namor and T’challa knew each other and had made a vow to never reveal the secrets of where they come from. You know, so I’ll be very interested to see. Also, this is this is old from an old leaked description that was to do with a casting. But there was also notions of somebody who is looking for not only vibranium, but they were going around searching out almost secret locations, including Antarctica, which is one of the other places you can find vibranium, which is where the savage lands are. So I wonder if it’s going to be this notion of the world has realized sort of like what happens in the in the zeroes X-Men movies. But in terms of people, the world has realized there is a segment of society that they have never seen.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight And if that is the case, then they are going to want the things that they can get from that society. So, yeah, I’m very interested since I’m also really interested to see like how Riri ties in like Ironheart because that’s the character we love so much. And it’s clear that she is going to be a major part of Black Panther, which is coming out before Ironheart. So be interesting to see how retroactively then get her own show spinning out of Black Panther rather than meeting her first in the TV show.


Jason Concepcion There is a sizzle reel from Ironheart featuring a logo reveal Dominique Thorne will be Riri Williams and we get the antagonist. The reveal of the antagonist Anthony Ramos as the Hood.


Rosie Knight This is so cool.


Jason Concepcion Which has been confirmed by Kevin Feige and Ryan Coogler. So The Hood, Parker Robins, is a he’s just like a small time criminal who like mugs a demon and and takes the demon’s hood. And the hood is magic and next thing you know, through this and through the ability to wield magical powers. Now, he becomes like a crime lord, like a big time magical mash up mafia figure who becomes who was for a time during the dark reign days like a real mover and shaker at the highest levels of villain-dom like in them in the Marvel Comics.


Rosie Knight Yeah. And something that came out of this as well was this notion of science versus magic, which you kind of touch on that. So I think if you look at the way that these things are going, we have Doctor Strange, who’s now a three eyed cosmic magic man in space with Clea. And then we have the Wakandans dealing with having the most high tech science and technology in that living known universe, probably. I think that that clash that they’re seeding in Ironheart of this notion of science verses magic is going to become a major thing going forward. Another thing we don’t have a lot of info about it because they didn’t show, they didn’t tell us about it much, but they showed a Marvel’s trailer and I just want to touch on it because there was something that was really interesting in the trailer, which is apparently it’s not just Kamala and Carol who are switching places, it’s also Monica and it’s the three of them throughout the movie that are allegedly going to be switching places to do with the bands and their powers. So I think that that is very interesting and that is apparently going to be the major conflict. So I’m very excited to see that trailer whenever they decide to release it.


Jason Concepcion Now, when I think of The Hood. I immediately think about his relationship with Madame Masque.


Rosie Knight Yep.


Jason Concepcion And I wonder who is a masked super villain? Kind of like a super soldier type. Super villain. The daughter of Count Nefaria and I, I and I wonder if they would bring that into it. That would be pretty cool.


Rosie Knight Also as well, if you think about it in the Hawkeye Comics. You have to reveal that Madam Masque is connected to Kate Bishop, and we might have already met a version of her. So seeing as this is another TV show, I’ll be very interested to see if they kind of tie that together, especially because Riri, if they are going to do a young Avengers, will likely be the Iron Man analog like Iron Lad was in the original young Avengers line up. So I’d be very interested to see how that connects The Hood and the character looks very similar. To DC’s Hood. Otherwise known as the man who had become the Joker in the old The Killing Joke. Well, we’re really getting the duality today.


Jason Concepcion I know. Last last couple of MCU things Charlie Cox says of Daredevil born again that this is whether it’s a reboot or not or what they’re calling it. It’s a season one, not a season four. So what I took that to mean is they’re going to pick and choose the things that they like from the Daredevil Netflix series, and those are going to be part of his backstory and then other things that they don’t like. They’re not like the defender. Like, did he ever join The Defenders? Probably not. You know what I mean?


Rosie Knight But it also.


Jason Concepcion Seems like the kingpin. Yes.


Rosie Knight This is another thing where we were kind of I would say we were right, because this was we basically thought they were going to do what they did with the North Rio, where they reimagined him for the MCU. They make him more super heroic. They make his powers different. I’d be very interested to see how they visualize Daredevil’s powers when he reenters the MCU in a more significant way.


Jason Concepcion And then and then Armor Wars was just was already confirmed, but now they’re reconfirming it.


Because every one was worried after the timeline.


Jason Concepcion And this it. This feels of a piece with Secret Invasion, with Thunderbolts, like all like obviously we see Don Cheadle in Secret Invasion. It’ll be fascinating to see how that stuff all ties together. And it really feels like, at least for some of these things, you know, a Secret Invasion, Thunderbolts, Armor Wars, Wakanda Forever. You know, the thing that people were kind of saying about phase four, it feels like fragmented. What’s it about? Where are we going? It feels like there’s some real thematic cohesiveness to to the stuff that has been announced and the directions they’re taking.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion Star Wars News. Mando Season three Trailer Folks. I Love Me Some Mando.


Rosie Knight The good stuff. Everybody loves the baby.


Jason Concepcion Where is the baby? Let me see the baby. Get the baby back. How’s the baby’s training going? I don’t care. As long as the baby is involved. Give me the baby. Notably, we’re going to see a lot more Mandalorians this time around. We’re going to see a bigger cadre of Mandalorians as Mando learns more about the culture that he comes from and the babies there. The baby is there, folks.


Rosie Knight They’re going to reunite. There’s going to be. It’s going to be good. It’s going to be. It’s going to be good. Important, baby stuff.


Jason Concepcion Greef Karga having a massive come up. He’s wearing like beautiful robes now.


Rosie Knight I love Carl Weathers in that role, that is like.


Rosie Knight Mando.


Rosie Knight See, it’s gone be good, it’s gone be good. You know, we’ll see it next year, early next year, or probably come along much sooner than we thought.


Jason Concepcion And then the final ANDOR trailer has been revealed. The there are screeners out now, which I haven’t seen yet, but I’m excited to watch.


Rosie Knight Yes, can’t wait.


Jason Concepcion Starring Diego Luna, of course, as Cassian Andor. Genevieve O’Reilly as Mon Mothma. Love. What a hero, Mon Mothma?


Rosie Knight Wow. What an absolute nother come off another character that could have been lost to the footnotes of history. But instead, became a major player.


Jason Concepcion An absolute legend and a hero. And Forest Whitaker reprising his role as Saw Guerrera. Guys, deception. Here’s the thing about Saw Guerrera. I’ve said it many times. I’ll say it again. I think he. I don’t think he gets the credit he deserves.


Rosie Knight Thank you.


Jason Concepcion Did he go too far at times? Yeah, I think so.


Rosie Knight He fighting space Nazis, though.


Jason Concepcion He was fighting space Nazis. And I will say that. You know, extremism in defense of space. Democracy is no vice and forest. I love his performance at Saw Guerrera was like out there by himself before anybody was like, Oh, the empire, we need to do something. Saw Guerrera was saying, We need to do something with the empire. We need to get together. When you fight them, we to stop them because they’re not going to quit. They’re going to keep expanding. They’re going to keep putting their boot on people’s necks. There’s no place in this galaxy you can run from them. We need to fight. And I’m delighted that Saga era is back in my life. So we’re going to see some alleged original clone troopers. I’m excited to start watching this. Very excited Tales of the Jedi trailer dropped, folks. Good. I don’t know.


Rosie Knight Looks good. He’s making an animated show.


Jason Concepcion Yes.


Rosie Knight It’s going to be about all the characters that you like. Duku, Asoka.


Jason Concepcion Great.


Rosie Knight It’s going to be six original shorts, allegedly, is what they’re calling it. I don’t know what that means, but I know we’re going to watch it because we love Rebels, we love Clone Wars, we love the Star Wars animated series that is.


Jason Concepcion Dave Filoni knows what he’s doing.


Rosie Knight Dave Filoni Knows things. That’s why he’s now basically in charge.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight So we will be watching.


Jason Concepcion My my reaction to this was good.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion And then. Oh, things of huge note. We must say this.


Rosie Knight This was such a big. I can’t believe they like slid this one in at the last minute. I’m like feeling like this was a cast they have been talking about for like 500 years.


Jason Concepcion So anybody that listens to this and listen to us on various other podcasts know that we love Rebels. You know, I think it’s I think you could argue that it’s the best Star Wars actually that there is is is Rebels.


Rosie Knight Definitely the best final episodes of any TV show.


Jason Concepcion It’s they just nail it they absolutely nail it.


Rosie Knight They stick the landing.


Jason Concepcion They nail it, they nail it. And, you know, one of the main characters is Young Jedi Padawan, Ezra Bridger, who at the end of the run of Rebels, we we are unsure what happened him where he is and it’s the Asoka series of course is coming and we it it was announced that Eman Esfandi will join the Asoka series as Ezra Bridger. This is huge news.


Rosie Knight This is what the fans have been waiting.


Jason Concepcion For. This is we, we people have been clamoring for us. The Asoka series being Where is Ezra?


Rosie Knight Literally.


Jason Concepcion Find Ezra.


Rosie Knight Maybe the most fan casted role.


Jason Concepcion Absolutely.


Rosie Knight Definitely in Star Wars, but maybe in general, like the fact that Ezra fans are here, they’re loud. They love him and they right to do so. And yes, this is very exciting. I felt like I, I was laughing because I felt like this should this was like up there with any of the other casting, but it was like.


Jason Concepcion This is huge.


Rosie Knight So yeah, this is, this is really big and I’m very and I mean it is like picture perfect casting.


Jason Concepcion Oh, it’s great.


Rosie Knight You see the two of them together, you just wow.


Jason Concepcion It’s absolutely great and fucking I can’t wait. I can’t wait. I’m so excited that they’re going to do this. It’s really crazy that they’re going to do this.


Rosie Knight It it didn’t feel. You got to remember especially with Rebels and I know we could do a whole miniseries just on Rebels.


Jason Concepcion Yes.


Rosie Knight Like when Rebels came out, people did not like the animation style people a long time to get into it. They felt like it was basic compared to Clone Wars. They also didn’t like that it was new characters. It is so influential and so brilliant and rewatches so well and it’s such a fantastic piece of sci fi storytelling and Star Wars storytelling and animation and cartoon. It’s it’s so good. And it feels absolutely bonkers to be in a world where there are rebels characters being adapted to live action.


Jason Concepcion It’s so crazy. I mean, it it is truly nuts that is happening. Not to mention that was like some of the best Darth Vader stuff. You know, post Anakin. Darth Vader. His reunion with Asoka.


Rosie Knight Oh, my god.


Jason Concepcion And is like, oh. Is is spine chilling stuff. And particularly, you know, first season is good. And then they absolutely nail the ending the first season. And then if you haven’t watched it, at least get to the end of season one. And then I guarantee you, if you like Star Wars. Yeah. Seasons two, three, four are just going to be like going into hyperspace. That’s going to feel like because it’s just great stuff. Emotional storytelling, a group of characters that you care about real like heartbreaking stakes, fun droids, incredible adventures, and just really, really great Star Wars.


Rosie Knight Great droids, actually.


Jason Concepcion Great droids. All time droids. Well, top or an all time droid. And so very very excited that that we’re continuing the story in the Asoka series. Bad Batch Season two coming out January 4th, 2023. Great. And some young Jedi adventures casting announcements. Jamal Avery, Junior. Emma Berman as Kai Bright Star in Nash Durango. Lots of great Star Wars stuff, Ben. A lot of content. Lots of news. Up next, She-Hulk Episode five.


Jason Concepcion <A.D.>.


Jason Concepcion We’re stepping out of the airlock and into the courtroom for She-Hulk. Episode five titled Mean Green and Straight Poured into These Jeans. Written by former Hysteria co-host Dana Schwartz and directed by Anu Valia. Dana Schwartz, whose wedding I recently attended. Congratulations once again to Dana and Ian. Let’s start with a recap. Jennifer Walters has a problem, and it’s a sizable one. It’s a big one with a big social media following and really, really good branding. It is Titania, the super influencer who Jen folded up in episode one. She has trademarked the She-Hulk name and is releasing a line of branded products lip plumper, beauty oils, some kind of shake for butts, and suing Jen to stop her from using her own name. It’s time to get litigious, folks. Meanwhile, Nicki and Pug hash out a deal. Nicki will stand in line with Pug so he can get two pairs of Iron Man threes, which is a nice payoff from the joke set up when Jen was surfing the Internet. And it was one of those one of those little blurb stories that it was like a just a picture of the Iron Man threes above man with metal claws, fights and bar. That’s a nice little payoff there. And Pug, in return, will take Nicki to his costume connect, his drip broker, in order to upgrade Jen drip, which is currently very, very dry in the midst of a historic drought. Desert like. Very arid. Not dripping. Now getting to the drip broker involves buying knockoff Avengers merch in the back room of a Boba café and then pulling rank, falsely claiming that Jen is Avenger. But you do what you got to do. And eventually they do get to the secret headquarters of this costume fashion designer. Back at GLK&H, Mr. Halloway’s annoyed because Jen lost control of her name and considering that he hired her to be the super green face of the firm’s superhero law division, that is bad. He assigns the trademark case to Jen’s colleague Mallory Book. Mal immediately goes on the offensive, saying, We need to countersue, we need to be aggressive, but also you need to not look like Joseph A. Bank in the in the courtroom and you need to get a better wardrobe. Nicky is on it. She gets Jen a meeting with Luke, top tier costume designer who makes ready to wear combat suits for a variety of secretive clients. Case goes to court, and there are some early setbacks. But Mallory then calls Jen’s match or dates to the stand, where they testify that Jen’s been using the name She-Hulk on a regular basis, proving that there is a chain of ownership of the name She-Hulk by Jen Walters. Case closed. Jen wins. Back at Luke’s, Jen collects her form fitting and fashion forward superhero wear that we actually don’t get to see her wear yet. I guess that’s a reveal for the next episode and we get a glimpse of Luke’s work for an other client. It is a yellow daredevil helmet. Let’s talk about. Oh my God.


Rosie Knight Oh my god


Jason Concepcion First of all, really cool that. Apparently the so in the comics the yellow suit is first like Daredevil wore the yellow suit originally and then went to the and went to the red suit, which then became the iconic suit you wore off most of the time, kind of like a, you know, sort of like Wolverine who had the the yellow and blue with the little kind of like pointy details on the shoulder suit first, and then went to the brown and tan suit, which then kind of became iconic for most people. I love that it was Luke that was like, we need to apparently was like, let’s upgrade your fashion and get you the yellow suit.


Rosie Knight I need to ask you about this, though. So, yes, you know, we talked with the D23 thing about what, you know, good old Matt Murdock himself, Charlie Cox said. He said this is a season one, not a season four. So do you think.


Jason Concepcion Oh, interesting.


Rosie Knight This is actually his first costume in the MCU? I don’t think so. I think you’re on the right track, but you make such a good point about the yellow suit and its origins. So maybe he did have the other suit. And this is that Luke gave him that good reference. And this is kind of the also, you know, something that you brought up when we were prepping for this. This means Daredevil has changed tailors.


Jason Concepcion Yes. Right.


Rosie Knight Because he’s  had Melvin Potter before in in the.


Jason Concepcion Ex-Supervillain, Melvin Potter. I here’s my take. I think that I agree. You’re absolutely right. And but one thing we did say in that conversation about season, it’s a season one out of season four is that we think that they’re going to just that means they’re going to pick issues.


Rosie Knight He’s definitely already Daredevil.


Jason Concepcion He’s already Daredevil, one. And two, he’s already daredevil because how would he even get the appointment? Luke is very.


Rosie Knight Yeah, yeah.


Jason Concepcion Luke is. Luke doesn’t just work with anybody. And he wasn’t going to work with Jen until they were like, Oh, she’s an Avenger. So clearly Matt has made a reputation for himself as an active superhero already. For him to even get the appointment. So we think he’s working as Daredevil, which means.


Rosie Knight Yeah, yeah. And he cataches the


Jason Concepcion He’s got this suit that he’s already been using.


Rosie Knight And like, you know, super producer Saul just pointed out, he catches the brig in no way home. So he’s using those powers. He’s living the life, right? He’s right. But yeah, I love that they because that kind of rebooting it makes a lot of sense to have the yellow costume. And Luke is obviously a steazy guy. This is also a very fun, deep cut. This is pure She-Hulk. Like there’s probably no other show where they would introduce The Wrecking Crew, right? Like, that was so fun. And, and so this is very similar because Luke Jacobson is like a fashion mogul, but he’s been in literally like three comics. And he was in this really this is like this is the stuff I’ve actually been waiting for Marvel and the MCU to get into, which is the comics that Marvel made that were not necessarily straight superhero comics. So he’s from Dakota North, which is like this super weird, eighties, kind of like spy ish comic, like private eye, very Black Widow looking. But it’s not Black Widow. And Luke Jacobson is just like this funny fashion mogul. But what is really cool is he was created by Tony Salmons, but also by Martha Thomases, who is like one of the premier female comic book journalists. So it was very cool to see her get a shout out in the creative thanks. And this is very fun because it does what the MCU does best, which is this is taking a character whose name is important in the comics but who doesn’t necessarily have a built out world. And now Luke Jacobson, I would say. If it had just been She-Hulk, who, by the way, he teases she she asked for a suit like a fancy lawsuit, and he said he made her something extra. So we can assume that’s probably the purple and white. I got.


Jason Concepcion That right. That’s what I thought.


Rosie Knight Because it was a little bit shorter, too. Yeah. Yeah. And I think. Sure, She-Hulk, that’s a big hero. Ironically, like how much more A-list probably than a lot of the heroes that began the MCU in phase one at the time. But I think with the daredevil costume, we can assume that Luke is going to be like the force of who is making the the suits for the heroes. From here on out now, Stark isn’t around, and we’re getting more grassroots heroes.


Jason Concepcion I agree with you. And I also think just to go back to why do we think Daredevil has been Daredevil ing this whole time? Why would he get a suit on the West Coast? That’s so like.


Rosie Knight Okay, he’s.


Jason Concepcion Got to have that. He must have been doing it previously.


Rosie Knight Okay. So if that’s the question, why would he get a suit on the West Coast, then this ties into one of our theories from earlier, which was about how in the Charles Saul run, when Jennifer needs help with this mysterious case, she goes to see Matt, who is currently in San Francisco. So I wonder if that if we’re going to see Matt on the West. Obviously, if he’s in She-Hulk, it’s unlikely she’s going to fly to New York for it. And it’s nice to see the West Coast being represented in the MCU, aside from Tony’s hilarious Malibu like Thunderbirds mansion. So I wonder where we’re going to see. Oh, yeah. And of course, Ant-Man, which, by the way, could connect to this daredevil theory. So, yeah, I’m very interested to see where we’re going to see Daredevil pop up. Is it just going to be something where they meet each other? In the in Luke’s office is is it going to be like a real play by play.


Jason Concepcion Me ask you this. Do they. So in the comics, the Charles Sewell run wonderful Charles Sewell run. Those the kind of main plot is about a case that Jen argues against Matt that we won’t spoil because it’s really good. And if you ever want to read it, definitely read it. But they end up on opposite. After hanging, after having a wonderful day out. Hanging out, they end up on opposite sides of the courtroom from each other. Do they argue cases against each other? Do they argue a case against each other.


Rosie Knight That would be so good?


Jason Concepcion That would be awesome because we.


Rosie Knight See it happen.


Jason Concepcion That would be really rad. And it makes me wonder, like, what the case could possibly be. But I think that would be really cool.


Rosie Knight Also, I do think look, I know I know that Tatiana and this is playing this like. She’s like this lawyer. She’s obsessed with her work. Like Jan is is very. The dichotomy between and juxtaposition between Jan and She-Hulk is obvious and that for a reason. But I, I know that Charlie Cox everyone loves sexy side daredevil who’s been beaten. But I do, and he is very handsome in that role. I love it too. It’s great. But I also could easily see a world where when him and Jen, when we see them like reconnect. They have met before. They have possibly they met before, which is very rare in the comics, but both in their non hero forms. And then.


Jason Concepcion That would make sense.


Rosie Knight Really interesting conflict to go into that lawsuit together.


Jason Concepcion Honestly for both a very similar in the sense that they are work hard play very hard kind of characters except you’re right Matt has that like Catholic sadness all the time.


Rosie Knight Everywhere he goes.


Ira Madison III Everywhere he goes. It’s just sad. Whereas Jen is definitely the the more gregarious and outgoing and the like and big personality. Okay. So at the end of this episode, Jen wins her case and we see that Arthur was there for it, giving a kind of moral and emotional support. Arthur, who she went on a date with in the previous episode, which. I had I had a thought after the end of the previous episode, and I wanted I want to see where you’re at with it. So Jen and Arthur have a wonderful date. They go have dinner and then some drinks, and then they go home and things go well and they are intimate. And then at the end and then the next morning Jen comes down, she’s in Jen form. And Arthur is I think he says he’s surprised and is clearly like, whoa, you know, and then leaves. And it’s a it’s like a discordant note. He was clearly he was clearly a little confused at this. What is as a superhero? Or a person who changes form. What is? Jen’s duty to inform a partner about her alter ego? I find myself wondering about this. Not that Jen necessarily was in the wrong. But it is definitely an emerging area of like superhero morality. Because clearly her partner, again, was was it was confused by it. And it had me thinking like, should Jen have said, Hey, by the way? I am also. I also look like this. This is also what I look like.


Rosie Knight I found this to be. Yeah. I think this is one of the most interesting moral quandaries that the show has introduced, intentionally or unintentionally, because it is played where we are always seeing things from Jen’s point of view. So the right angle of seeing it there is, oh, like he likes this side of me, but not this other side of me, and that hurts. And in this, you know, in the line up of terrible men, she went on dates with.


Jason Concepcion Yes.


Rosie Knight Even there in the courtroom, he makes a point of saying, She-Hulk is amazing. I really like She-Hulk. But he also says Jen is not my type, you know, and I think that is very notable and also a succinct way of the of setting up the problem of this, which is Jen is your type because Jen is She-Hulk, but aesthetically Jen is not your type. And did Jen make it clear because she she made that the whole lawsuit, too, this week hinges on the fact that she made a match or account as She-Hulk. She presented herself as She-Hulk. Not as Jan what is the moral, the morality around that of then presenting this other side of yourself? I think it’s I think it’s baby steps. Mistake on Jen’s part.


Jason Concepcion Agreed. But I don’t think so.


Rosie Knight I don’t think Arthur is particularly in the wrong.


Jason Concepcion I don’t think he’s.


Rosie Knight In a shock because he literally asks who Jen is, so he obviously didn’t know.


Jason Concepcion I think it’s reasonable to to. I think his his feelings are reasonable in that moment. I think that the main thing I think you’re right it’s baby steps in a mistake by Jen. At the same time like. There’s no like unlike the the Asgardian elf who we met earlier in the episode, there’s, there was no will to deceive. Jen was not trying to deceive anyone. Now, I think she as a person who is just getting used to and processing the fact that she has this alter ego now that is part of her self. There’s also the fact that. She is is probably. Has not yet grappled with the fact that, one, she’s a public person now, but as she has not as chin, she’s done numerous TV appearances, but as She-Hulk talking about being She-Hulk, whereas her her Jennifer Walters persona is just like a workaday, anonymous person without a public profile. Unlike Tony Stark or Steve Rogers, some of these other heroes where people would reasonably know who they are. It’s reasonable to assume that the people who went on a date with She-Hulk would not know or immediately connect She-Hulk to Jen or even know how to start. How do you Google if you. Because it’s not been a long time since Jen has been She-Hulk. If you Googled She-Hulk, would Jen Walters come up? It’s unclear that that’s the case.


Rosie Knight I think because of the first episode where we saw where Jen’s first public foray as She-Hulk was as Jennifer Walters in the courtroom. And then she transformed and fought Titania. I don’t think it would take that long to Google it, but I do think the point of the men going on the dates was they want the fantasy of She-Hulk. So what they Google it now I will say I did because I’m I’m quite heavily on Arthur’s side and I do think that this introduces a very interesting moral quandary that I would love to see explored more about, like the notion of how you present yourself and such. But I will say there is a quote from the date where she does tell him right in the middle of the lobby, in front of everyone I had to transform. It was so embarrassing. So she establishes there that there is at least a transformation. The question is.


Jason Concepcion Did she do enough?


Rosie Knight I feel like there is honesty there. But like I also don’t necessarily think he’s just some shallow jerk because he like.


Jason Concepcion No, no no.


Rosie Knight Who she when he did go on a date with.


Jason Concepcion I think they clearly, from the very moment that Arthur appears on the screen, are presenting him as, oh, this is the good guy. He’s interested in her.


Rosie Knight He’s a he’s a kid doctor.


Jason Concepcion He’s a child like. He’s that, you know, i.e., he’s a generous giving person. He what he’s like wants to know about her life. He’s not just out here talking, talking, talking over her. And he’s a kind of good looking, nice guy. And I agree with you again, I don’t think Jen was trying to trick anyone, but I do think the question is. Did she do enough to to really let him know completely who she is? Because, yes, she mentions a transformation. But is that enough? Because, you know, again, he was like, wait, who are you? Like this completely different person. Yeah. And I think, again, I just think it’s a really. I think it’s an interesting thing to think about.


Rosie Knight I think your, you brought it up. It’s a really good topic where you were like, this is an emerging problem that we.


Jason Concepcion Right. This is an emerging issue.


Rosie Knight And I think we will see more of it explored. We got the most extreme version, which is the lie elf who is outwardly deceiving people and committing identity fraud against Meg the Stallion. But like this is this is the these are the slice of life day to day issues that you have to navigate if you have an alter ego, especially if it is an alter ego that is based on transformation and changing the way you look. And we’re going to see more of that as we get mutants, as we get Skrulls. So I’m very interested to see that and I was very interested to see Arthur be brought back at all. I didn’t yeah, think that was something that was going to happen. So maybe there will be some kind of. Conversation or continuation of that arc.


Jason Concepcion That’s how I felt is that there is going to be. They’re going to have a conversation about this. Right. Because why else have that moment where, you know, he there’s a look that’s shared when the case is kind of over, where he kind of like they share this moment and it feels like there’s more to be said, which I think is really interesting. I’m glad they’re doing that, apparently. If they do indeed do that, because again, this is like I don’t necessarily think our son was wrong to feel weird about it.


Rosie Knight Yeah. Yeah, that’s how I feel about it, too. Like, I love that we get to perceive everything through Jen’s eyes. And this is like a Jen centric show. But in that moment, I think that is a bigger conversation to be had. And I think something that the MCU has done and has expanded on throughout its years and has gotten really good at is looking at the kind of collateral damage of being a hero, right? Whether it’s in your personal life, whether it’s in the more gigantic space of super heroics and the damage that that causes on a financial or physical level. But I think this is a really interesting space where they can kind of expand that. So yeah, and it was interesting to see to see Mallory. Use that as a space to side with Jen, which is something that we haven’t really seen because it’s very they very much been sort of pitted against each other as the women in the law firm.


Jason Concepcion It’s also an interesting way, you know, because with Bruce. Split personalities are just kind of integral to his experience of the Hulk and both in the comics and in the movies in the MCU. Less so. But in the comics, like very dramatically like The Hulk has different personas and there are different factions of Hulk’s within this Hulk schism of Bruce’s personality. And now Jan is having to grapple with she is Jen. Right. She’s she’s the Jen personality is dominant the whole time when she’s she Hulk. She is Jen. At the same time, the way that the world will perceive her. And the way this lawsuit is, is is making her interact with this new personality is, as is She-Hulk, as a separate entity under Jen. And it’s just like a fascinating thing to process. Like, again, I don’t think Jen wasn’t trying to trick anybody, but there’s clearly a blind spot here. And the thing about Blindspot is you don’t know it’s there because you don’t see it.


Rosie Knight Yeah, I’m also very interested in what this means, because in the comics, for the most part, Jen just chooses to stay as She-Hulk, right? Generally has. So I want to know if that journey we’re getting a lot of really fun. Visual gags here where we’d like Tatyana in the giant suit when she says, I love Lenny. It’s so funny. Like, I was always accost the big woman as She-Hulk kind of person. But in this show, the way that they represent it with the the tiny woman, Big Sue, is it’s a very funny visual gag. But I am very interested to know. If Jen will ever come to that place in the MCU, like Bruce did with the Smart Hulk, Professor Hulk personality, in her own way of feeling that She-Hulk is. The best representation of her or the person that she wants to be for for most of the time. I’ll be very interested to see that.


Jason Concepcion Yeah. I wonder if we ever get to a point in. Shows AMC, whether it’s that the shows are the movies where Jen is in She-Hulk form for the majority, the vast majority of whatever the thing is, it will be very interesting to see that.


Rosie Knight Yeah. Also, so you kind of touched on how this you know, we’re seeing this lawsuit in the in the courtroom and it kind of becomes this more focus on Jen and obviously her dating life, but is very much in the tradition of these lawsuits. We’ve seen Jan fight, whether it’s against, you know, Dad Evil or anyone else. It’s very fun to see them leaning into that like mundanity of the court cases that she has to fight. Like, yeah, she is a superpowered lawyer, but also cease and desist or a trade mark.


Jason Concepcion Right. Yeah.


Rosie Knight Yeah. And I thought that was really fun. And I especially liked The Avengers or Avengers. The fake Avengers merch was very cool.


Jason Concepcion I got get the merch. We got to  A


Rosie Knight Please someone send us an Avongers hat.Serious.


Jason Concepcion We got to get some of that merch.


Rosie Knight Yeah. Please somebody send us an Avongers hat. We would like Avongers hats


Jason Concepcion As Daredevil enters the MCU, you know, there is always been a really interesting tension in the comics, you know, and even in the Netflix series for sure about Matt, who is a the a lawyer that fights for the little guy and is incredibly passionate about using the legal system to defend people and defend people’s rights, who at the same time breaks the law like every single night.


Rosie Knight Every night.


Jason Concepcion Every night as the vigilante Daredevil, destroying property, assaulting various people without an understanding of necessarily that they’ve committed a crime. You know, in the comics, one of Daredevil’s like big techniques is he will just go into some like kingpin connected bar and beat up everybody in sight to get information. He does this like on a regular basis. And it’s interesting. And there’s always been that tension there that’s been part of why Daredevil is so interesting of he practices the law. He’s very interested in the law, but he breaks the law every single night of the week. So I think I wonder if how much of that is going to enter into what we’re seeing now, because Jenn, to be fair to her, isn’t Jen doesn’t do that, Jen.


Rosie Knight No, not.


Jason Concepcion Jen fights when it is necessary and when she has to defend herself. But she’s not going into like a place and just busting it up to get information.


Rosie Knight She’s not killing people on a regular basis because of her Catholic guilt, which Matt does like. Matt’s chaining people to church rooves, he’s beating people up, he’s killing people. He’s taking down gangs. He’s ignoring the obvious wealth and health disparities in Hell’s Kitchen that cause these problems. And he’s just locking people up. So, yeah, I think that’s a really great point also. So a running joke that we’ve seen from the earliest episodes. I think it’s episode two where we first hear it, which is this idea that Jenn has been rejected from The Avengers and now there’s this ongoing joke that Jenn is going to be an Avenger, or she needs to be an Avenger to get things done. Kevin Feige recently said at D23 that The Avengers currently do not exist, right? There’s no Avengers. This feels to me like they’re setting up Jen being in a version of The Avengers, whether it’s A-Force.


Jason Concepcion Oh for sure.


Rosie Knight  you know, which was the first all female Avengers team. And Jen was the leader of the original version of it. I feel like the Avengers nods. They’re leading somewhere. This show doesn’t do anything unintentionally. Like, what do you think?


Jason Concepcion I. Oh. I mean, listen, Kate. Is heading to L.A., we imagine at some point, right?


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion I feel like there are a lot of threads leading us to the creation of the West Coast team, whether they call that a West Coast Avengers team, I don’t know, but a West Coast superhero team, we understand, you know, Simon Williams is going to appear on the scene at some point with with Trevor Slattery, as we would assume, his acting coach. You know, of some sort.


Rosie Knight Oh, my God. Of course. Of course.


Jason Concepcion And so I. I think you’re right. And I wonder if we’re going to see that West Coast team come together. Scott Lang’s. Scott is also out here on the West Coast. So I wonder if we’re going to see that West Coast team before we see a quote unquote Avengers team?


Rosie Knight I think I think we’re not going to see The Avengers until we get as they are The Avengers, you know, with the. Adjective less avengers. Until probably those two Avengers movies.


Jason Concepcion And I think.


Rosie Knight Where we know that they’re going to be that and I think you’re right we’re going to see many different teams and it feels like a West Coast team. Is very likely.


Jason Concepcion I think that when we do get that Avengers team, obviously years from now.


Rosie Knight Literally years.


Jason Concepcion Literal years. But I, I think that. As we move in that direction. It would make sense to me that if Nick is still around. He will be instrumental in assembling that team alongside alongside a, you know, War Machine. I think War Machine will be the coming off of whatever happens in Armor Wars is going to be like the not necessarily Tony but the kind of government liaison, whereas Nick is going to be more of the outlaw.


Rosie Knight So I wonder I wonder if this is so I wonder. I think that Nick’s, one, Samuel L. Jackson loves playing Nick Fury, let’s be real.


Jason Concepcion Loves it.


Rosie Knight He’s playing Nick until they stop letting him play Nick Fury.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, until he can’t walk anymore.


Rosie Knight Literally. So I think he’s going to be around. I think his prominence in Secret Invasion means we’re going to see him come back to the forefront. Now, I wonder if what we’re going to see is Nick having to create a team to counteract the Thunderbolts because he has already established a government shield funded Avengers. Right? That’s the Avengers we know from the MCU. So he would know what he needed in a team to take down the government funded heroes, inverted commas of the Thunderbolts. And that would be very funny and could lead into some good comic book stuff because in the comics, The Contessa and Nick Fury have a love life that  they once shared. It’s very betrayal and spy heavy. So I wonder if we’re going to get to see.


Jason Concepcion We have to get that.  I need that


Rosie Knight I mean, think about.


Jason Concepcion I knew the soap opera.


Rosie Knight We have to have Samuel Jackson together. We need to see it.


Jason Concepcion We have to have that. We have to have that.


Rosie Knight The warring parents.


Jason Concepcion Because here’s the thing that if you could. Here’s the thing that we haven’t got enough of it in the MCU. It’s that. It is like it is couples that broke up that still have mess. That’s part of why I can’t wait for the mutants and for the X-Men to come in because that’s the whole thing.


Rosie Knight That’s the whole thing.


Jason Concepcion That’s the whole thing. It’s love triangles. And this one. These two are together. But also she’s in love with him. And there’s a whole thing. And, you know, these two are carrying on a long running psychic affair.  Like that. Like we need that in the MCU. And so.


Rosie Knight We do need that.


Jason Concepcion And so I’m I’m I’m very, very hopeful that Nick and the Contessa have have a history. Have a romantic history


Rosie Knight They can be the introduction to the messy romance. Okay. This is this is now slightly off topic, but really it’s your tangent and it’s X-Men focus. So I think it’s fine to talk about how likely one of the most famous was a fan love triangle was a canon love triangle between a woman and two men Jean Gray, Cyclops and Wolverine.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight That has now become a Canon MCU potential polyamorous queer shit situation in the Krakoa age. There is a very famous blueprint of the where they’re all living and the doors between Jean’s room, Cyclops room, and Wolverine’s room. They all open into each other’s rooms. How likely do you think, if we’re talking about romantic mess, obviously Jean- Wolverine, slash Jean- Cyclops. That’s going to probably happen. Yeah. If we get an older collection of those heroes, which I, I am leaning towards, the idea that the, the teacher, the mutants, who we know is the most famous X-Men will likely be teacher age. That’s why I think they’re going to do. How likely do you think we’re going to see them play into that with maybe like the adjoining rooms or like the idea that this the three of them just like a little nod because the Krakoa age seems like it’s going to be the influence for what they’re doing.


Jason Concepcion The Krakoa age is, is wonderfully poly.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion I, I, I don’t know that they would do doors, but I think that they, there has to be tension that is there for the fans to pick up on like little things, little comments from Logan about, about how happy Jean is and. That has to exist because, you know, it’s honestly just been such a a part of the texture of those characters for basically as long as they’ve been around, like for as long as Wolverine has been around, he’s been in love with Jean Grey, like obviously talking about it all the time and for at least that long, he and Scott have been like butting heads about it. So it’s got to be there in some form or fashion. I think it’s got to be.


Rosie Knight I think about how how good, how well-played that was in the Zero’s X-Men between Famke Janssen, Hugh Jackman and James Marsden, who is so brilliant as Cyclops. I actually think one of my favorite things now I think about it. I rewatched those movies like Far Too Much, but I do always think about how the End of Days of Future Past. I think they understood that relationship even better than some comic book creators did because at the end, after everything is done, Logan goes back and he opens the door of Charles, his office, and Jean is there and Scott is there, but he’s like, so he’s like crying when he sees that Scott is there, not just Jean. And I was just like, okay, you guys get it? And this is like the love triangle. So yeah, I’m very excited. Hopefully Nick and the Contessa can be the introduction to the romantic mess that we need. That’s a bit more like the fun, bantering mess than kind of that the original MCU Avengers that was very focused on heroics, less so on romance. You know, when it did come, it was it was kind of touch and go. So it will be nice to see that built in in a more extensive, fun way.


Jason Concepcion That’s it for us today. Rosie, anything to plug?


Rosie Knight Yes. You can find me Rosie Marx on Instagram and letterboxd. You can read my stuff  at Nerdist, Polygon, IGN. And this weekend, I will be at the Orange Public Library for their comic convention. And I’ll be doing a really cool panel with a brilliant bookseller from Mysterious Galaxy who befriends the pod, who who are big supporters of the work that we do here. And I’ll be there with the table from 11 till four just selling my was wares, talking about making comics, all that kind of stuff. So feel free to pop on by and say hello.


Jason Concepcion Catch the next episode of X-ray Vision on September 23rd for more House of the Dragon She-Hulk, plus a return to a galaxy far, far away with the premiere of Andor. And of course, don’t forget to send your House of the Dragon questions to AsktheMaester@Gmail.com. If you want to hear our full conversation on House of the Dragon, plus the Ask the Maester segment, check out our first episode this week that is purely focused on House of the Dragon. It is right there in your podcast listening platform of choice. We want your five star reviews. Leave us your reviews, but they got to be five stars. Wherever you get your podcasts. If you like X-ray Vision, please leave us that five star review. We love it. We need it. We got to have it. X-ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. The show is executive produced by myself and Sandy Girard. Our editing and sound design is by Vasilis Fotopoulos. Delon Villanueva and Matt DeGroot provide video production support. Alex Reliford handles social media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for our theme music. See you next time. Bye bye.