Keeping Up with the Joneses is Bad for Your Health | Crooked Media
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November 25, 2022
Keeping Up with the Joneses is Bad for Your Health

In This Episode

Who are the Joneses and why does everyone want to keep up with them? You might be tempted to buy things you don’t need to temporarily boost your self-esteem or your status on social media, but the ladies of Imani State of Mind are diving deep into the psychological damage that comes with Keeping up with the Joneses.




Dr. Imani Walker: This show is for general information and entertainment purposes only. It is not intended to provide specific health care or medical advice and should not be construed as providing health care or medical advice. Please consult your physician with any questions related to your own health. [music break] Hey, y’all, welcome to Imani State of Mind. I’m Dr. Imani. 


MegScoop Thomas: And I am Meg Scoop. How are you? 


Dr. Imani Walker: I’m doing well. I’m doing well. I’m actually really um just kind of like full and relaxed. Yesterday was Thanksgiving. Got to kick it with the family, which is always fun. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yes! 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yes. 


Dr. Imani Walker: How was um how was your Thanksgiving? 


MegScoop Thomas: It’s good. You know, I always love, like, just the togetherness and the food of Thanksgiving. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Mm hmm. 


MegScoop Thomas: But, like, I don’t I guess I don’t like like what comes with it, which is like the extra pounds and the– [laughing] 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: And like, you already know, once you eat, you’re just going to have to sit down. We not going no where–


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: –we not doing nothing like chill. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: And so– 


Dr. Imani Walker: We just gonna chill.


MegScoop Thomas: –Black Friday on days like today I just like shop on my phone. I’m not going no where.


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. Yeah, yeah. Usually that’s usually that’s what I do like we used to and when um, when my family lived in New York, we used to wake up well, my mom used to wake us up super early. And when I say super early, I mean like at 6:00 in the morning um to go to this– 


MegScoop Thomas: What, to go to sit at the store in the lines? 


Dr. Imani Walker: Well, to go to this outlet, this outlet mall called uh Woodberry Commons um which is uh– 


MegScoop Thomas: [gasp] Yeah! 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah Woodberry Commons in New York–


MegScoop Thomas: I’ve been there girl. It’s great. It’s a great outlet mall. 


Dr. Imani Walker: It’s great. No it’s great. So she we lived we lived in Westchester County at the time. We lived in Mount Vernon. So it wasn’t as far as if we were driving from like Manhattan, let’s say, but she would wake us all up and we would go there. And I’m telling you, like it would be us and like the Asians. And and so there would be times where there would be times where, like, we would be like I would be like a I remember being in a dressing room. This happened to me and my uncle on the same day we were in a dressing room. And I guess whoever it was was like, like I remember seeing this little like I want to say she was Japanese, but–


MegScoop Thomas: Okay. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –I could be wrong. But this Asian woman, she, she was like going through like opening up the um, the uh the dressing room doors, like looking for any, like, clothes that people didn’t want to, like, wear and like going those and I was like, hey, I was like, that’s my clothes, it was girl, I was just, I mean, it was war out there. So when we moved um and I love, love online shopping. But honestly, I’ve kind of been like going a little crazy. So I told myself that I can’t do any more shopping today because I kind of spent like, okay, I bought like ten trees. Um.


MegScoop Thomas: Wait what? 


Dr. Imani Walker: Like ten fruit–


MegScoop Thomas: What kind of trees? 


Dr. Imani Walker: I bought ten. Okay, I bought, I bought. Okay. You ready? I bought olive a olive tree. I bought– 


MegScoop Thomas: Okay. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –um a soursop tree. I bought [gasp] a um lo quat tree. I bought um a did I buy I didn’t buy a cherry tree. I bought a key lime tree. I bought um– 


MegScoop Thomas: Oh my gosh I love this. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I bought like, oh, I bought um a mamey tree. I bought like–


MegScoop Thomas: Wow. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I have four more trees that I can’t think of off the top of my head because some of them might be duplicates. But I went crazy like two weeks ago, and so they’re here. So now I have to, like, find space for them and like, you know, my boyfriend Peter was like, where are you going to put these trees? And I was like, don’t worry about my life. [indistinct] I’m a make them fit.


MegScoop Thomas: [laughing] You not gonna have no backyard it’s literally just going to be trees in your backyard. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I know. It’s good. I’m like, this is like, welcome to my, like, you know, like my grocery store. Like, welcome to my produce department. Like, I just– 


MegScoop Thomas: [?] so excited. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I just like I’ve just been I’ve been spending, like, just money on things, but they have been on sale. So that’s the only thing that I’ll say um I did kind of like buy myself a early birthday present too. And I was like, okay, that’s it, that’s it for you. Like, you can’t buy no more stuff. So um. So yeah so I–


MegScoop Thomas: I’m so no, like, this is gold to me. I’m over here. Like, I cannot wait for you to plan all this stuff and for you to get your first harvest cause I’m a be right there with a little grocery bag, like thank you. 


Dr. Imani Walker: No I know! 


MegScoop Thomas: Can I get a couple things off your trees? [laughter] Thank you. I love that. Especially the soursop. Oh my gosh, soursop is my favorite. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Oh, my God. 


MegScoop Thomas: So I– 


Dr. Imani Walker: I know it’s going to take a–


MegScoop Thomas: I’m a be, I’m a be at your house–


Dr. Imani Walker: –Couple years though–


MegScoop Thomas: –girl. I’m a be at your. That’s okay, cause I’m gonna be there. First crop. 


Dr. Imani Walker: You know–


MegScoop Thomas: I’m a be there. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I thought about you the other day, too, because I um my my navel oranges, my navel orange tree. They have um oranges on them now. So I was like, you know what, I’m a make some juice. So I made some [gasp] and I was like, yay I did it. 


MegScoop Thomas: Oooooh. 


Dr. Imani Walker: And when you were here, you were like, you just be like, picking fruit. I’m like, yeah, this like when I need a lemon, I’m like, I’m gonna go outside and pick these– 


MegScoop Thomas: I love it. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Lemons and come back in the house. So. So yeah um, but quite honestly, I’m not thinking about food after yesterday. I’m just, I’m like, ehh I just want to, like, I just want to, like, go hiking for, like, all day and then just–


MegScoop Thomas: Right right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Come home and just like, I don’t know, watch– 


MegScoop Thomas: Do you have do you have a specialty dish, though, like that you make for Thanksgiving? 


Dr. Imani Walker: Um, you know what? Honestly, my mom takes care, like my mom and my dad kind of battle in the kitchen. So like some this year they had they’ve each made their own turkey. So my dad– 


MegScoop Thomas: Oh okay. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –will make a turkey and like he’ll usually do cornbread stuffing. My mom will do her turkey. She’ll do like regular stuffing. Um. So I don’t really bring anything. Like if I do bring something, it’ll usually be like um cranberry sauce because cranberry sauce is–


MegScoop Thomas: Okay. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –So easy to make like if you– 


MegScoop Thomas: For sure yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –can boil water, you can–


MegScoop Thomas: I love it. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Make cranberry sauce. So– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I just kind of I made that and then I ate that because a lot of the desserts and stuff like I really couldn’t eat like that because you know the gluten and um– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Now that I’m gluten intolerable or whatever or whatever, um I can’t eat that. So I was just like– 


MegScoop Thomas: Okay. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Well I’m a just eat this cranberry sauce and just cry [laughter] I’m just kidding it was good, though. It was good. I had no I had I had a really good time. So I’m just, uh you know, looking forward to not eating for the rest of today. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. Right. No, I– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: –I’m usually. So every year is different depending on like I’ve a couple of years ago I did. I we had Thanksgiving at my house and so I ended up cooking. I was like, I’ve never done this before. Like, I always made like one or two dishes and took them somewhere. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: So I was like, I’m going to do everything, no never again. I did– 


Dr. Imani Walker: No. 


MegScoop Thomas: –12 dishes by myself plus like–


Dr. Imani Walker: Girl! 


MegScoop Thomas: –Three different desserts. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Why? Ugh.


MegScoop Thomas: I just, you know, it was something I wanted to see if I could do it and do it well. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: And, and I was proud of myself because I did that, okay? Everybody was like, everything’s good. Everything. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. 


MegScoop Thomas: That was like, I will never do that again. Okay, [indistinct] [laughing]


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah no. That’s craziness. 


MegScoop Thomas: And then another year after that, I think I did like maybe like four dishes. And then–


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: –Ever since then I’ll do like one or two. And my staple is um I do a sweet potato soufflé that’s like I take everywhere and cranberry sauce. So– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. 


MegScoop Thomas: That’s my thing. Or I’ll do like a creamed. I mean um, a corn soufflé. Like, it just depends. I’ll ask wherever I’m going. So this year it was just the uh sweet potato souffle. So I’m good with that. [laugh]


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. Okay, that sounds good. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I um, I always like in when I was a little kid, we went to my, my grandfather, I swear, like, stayed with the girlfriend so we went over, like, to her house. And this is when we lived in Dallas. And I remember, like going over to her house and I was like, yo, what is happening with this sweet potato marshmallow situation? And so ever since then like that’s the only time I ever had it in my life. I was probably like nine. And I was like, oh my God. Like, what is this? Cause I don’t really like marshmallows like that. And I– 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Like sweet potatos a certain way, but I was like, this is so I mean, this is going to sound silly because I mean, like the whole basically I was raised around Jamaicans and so–


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –I was like, this is so Black American. Like, look at this. There’s marshmallows on here. I’m like, How weird is that? Like, because my mom was like, we would never do that. And I was like, that’s fine because this shit is good as hell. [laughter] So um, so, so yeah. So yeah. But one thing that I haven’t really like been dealing with recently has been like, I haven’t really well, we talk about this sometimes. I haven’t really been on my phone. I really haven’t been on my phone like over the past couple of days because I know, like every thanksgiving, I’m like, it’s going to be Thanksgiving with Black family means which I love, but it’s also going to be the struggle plates. And I can’t deal–


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –With these struggle plates like at all. So I’m just like, you know what? I’m a just chill. And also because we’ve talked about social media can just be [sigh] social media can be a lot. We’re kind of looking at the implosion or yeah, I was going to say explosion, but implosion of Twitter like in real time. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. Yeah.


Dr. Imani Walker: Which is really interesting. Um. And dealing with social media and being on social media can really cause people to feel like like jealousy and envy that like you never really would have like imagined like when Facebook became a thing or when Instagram or even Twitter became a thing, it was just like, oh, I get to talk to all these people. Like, I get to– 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Talk to, like celebrities and they’ll like, reply back to me. And now it’s become this thing where there’s influencers and it’s like, what is she doing? Or what are they doing? And we’re comparing ourselves to people who present us a very curated version of their lives. And–. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –So today on today’s deep dive, we’re going to be talking about how keeping up with the Joneses is actually really bad for your health. Um. And I say that uh even though NeNe Leakes, Linnethia Leakes, first of her name told all of us on Real Housewives of Atlanta, that she is the Joneses. So, [laugh] you know, I guess we’re all trying to keep up with her. I’m just kidding. Um. Any [laugh]. Anyway, anyway if you guys are loving the show, please let us know by rating the show on your favorite podcast app. 


MegScoop Thomas: We have so much to talk about, so let’s start the show. [music break]


Dr. Imani Walker: Okay so we want to know what’s on y’alls minds. What are you struggling with? We love giving our professional and not so professional advice. 


MegScoop Thomas: That is right. It’s time to ask Dr. Imani anything. Our first letter today comes from Myra, and here is what she had to say. Dear Dr. Imani and Meg, I have found myself in some unsolicited drama I recently became– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Oooh yes. Yes, sorry sorry.


MegScoop Thomas: We like that. Right. [laughing]


Dr. Imani Walker: I like that. [laughing]


MegScoop Thomas: I recently became friends with a new mom friend, and we just clicked instantly. I really enjoy hanging with her and she makes all these playdates of mom meetups much more bearable. Well, she shared with me that she is finally getting back out there in the dating world after her divorce. My friend was telling me about her new man and confided in me that he was married but in the process of getting a divorce. The only problem is that her new man is one of my longtime friend’s husbands. When she told me his name and showed me a picture. I told her he is not getting a divorce. In fact, he’s on baby number four. I decided to confront him instead of stressing my pregnant friend out. He completely lost it on me and told me to mind my own business. Then my new mom friend snapped at me for confronting him. She said it wasn’t my place to do that. And as her friend, I should have let her decide how she wanted to handle it. My new mom friend is no longer including me in the mom meetups or playdates. I’ve been iced out by the new mom group. A few moms from the playgroup just said, I need to apologize, but I don’t think I did anything wrong. It’s actually still not sitting right with me. Do you think I should tell my pregnant friend about her husband’s affair? Should I apologize to the husband or my new mom friend? Mmm.


Dr. Imani Walker: Ooh, Myra. Okay um, here’s the thing. It’s not that you found yourself in some unsolicited drama but–


MegScoop Thomas: Right, let’s start there. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –you created the drama. 


MegScoop Thomas: Thank you. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Like you created the drama. Okay. [sigh] I’m like Myra. Myra, girl, you can’t. I mean. Okay, listen, take it from me as somebody who, and this happened when I was in high school. I had a friend and he was dating somebody, and I was like, oooh, this girl is so wack. And so I went to go tell him because we was friends. And then, of course, this this raggedy dude went and told his girl. And the girl was like, Imani, I want to talk to you. And I was like, What’s up? And she was like, well, he told me that you said you didn’t like me. And I was like, Well, I don’t. But I mean, we not friends. It’s cool like it’s like it’s fine. Like, I you know, like I say hi to you in the hallway when we go, you know, going in between classes like I don’t hang out with you, we not even in the same grade. Right. But my point is, is that I learned that day that when it comes to affairs of love, like just stay out of it like– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: You can’t I mean, as much as you find yourself like yo I’m the Good Samaritan like people when it comes to emotions and romantic feelings, like, like just bite your tongue. And even if they’re like, well, did you know it’s like, Yeah, I knew. But like, first of all, I wasn’t going to get screamed on, okay? And it’s not like, listen, I will say this. If this were my best friend. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: If this were my best friend, yes. I would absolutely tell her because I know I know her response would be like, you know what? Thank you. As opposed to like, a new friend, you know what I’m saying like this was like a new new friend. So, you do kind of have to tr–


MegScoop Thomas: No. She said her longtime friend. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Oh, well– 


MegScoop Thomas: The husband is. Yeah but the the man is married to her longtime friend. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, but. Okay, wait. Okay. So let me get this straight. Let me let me go back because because once once she dropped that drama, I was like it was like a, oh, uh [laugh] it was like a tailspin. So she has she she has a brand new friend. This brand new friend is with her longtime friend’s husband. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yes. 


Dr. Imani Walker: She told the husband first. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yes. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Then she told her longtime friend. 


MegScoop Thomas: Well, she no, she didn’t tell her longtime friend. She once the new friend told her, this is the dude. And she said, new friend, like, that’s my friend’s husband. She’s pregnant. They got a baby– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: –On the way. Then she went to– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: –go tell the husband like you, raggedy. I know what’s going on. He blew up on her. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: And then her new friend hit her up and was like, How dare you? You should have let me deal with it. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: And now she don’t know if she should tell the pregnant friend. Pregnant long time friend. 


Dr. Imani Walker: No, okay. Yeah. Don’t don’t okay stop talking to people about it. Just stop [laughter] or it’s not like legit it’s not your business. I mean, even though, like, you want to be like the good person, like, I mean, it’s not the same case, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And unfortunately, these people are hellish and they’re taking you into hell with you. So just don’t like don’t just stay out of it. Like, just be like, oh, okay, girl, that’s I mean, it’s too late now, but I would have just been like, Oh, okay, cool. Um. I definitely would not have told my pregnant friend because honestly– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –She might know. 


MegScoop Thomas: She might. 


Dr. Imani Walker: She might know. And this may just be the arrangement they have. I don’t I don’t know. I don’t know. But when it comes to ma– when it comes to matters of the heart and love and relationships and this type of thing, like, you know, is it gets too complicated. People’s feelings and their egos and and you jealous of me? And and it’s like, huh? Like, I’m not fucking this dude, so just stay out of it anyway anyway um.


MegScoop Thomas: Wait should she te– 


Dr. Imani Walker: I feel like I’ve said enough. 


MegScoop Thomas: Should she, she asked, should she apologize to the husband or the new mom friend? 


Dr. Imani Walker: No. Don’t apologize. I wouldn’t apologize. I would just be. I mean, if she’s already iced out. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I mean, I would just be, like, listening y’all are super raggedy and I don’t need this in my life. So in a way, it was kind of good Myra, that you established like this is like these are my standards and these are my morals and I don’t really fuck with this. Um. And it’s not like, what are you going to do? You going to apologize and then what, she gonna let you back in your friend group like. No. 


MegScoop Thomas: Uh uh. [indistinct] [laugh]


Dr. Imani Walker: So I would just be like I would just be like, you know what, y’all you like I like I warned you this nigga’s raggedy, y’all both mad at me. Then I guess you have something to talk about when you be fucking next time. So I would just [indistinct] [laugh] but but, but I wouldn’t apol– I wouldn’t apologize. I wouldn’t apologize. 


MegScoop Thomas: I would say this–


Dr. Imani Walker: If she was in front of me and was like, well, da da da da da. Then I would be like, well, damn bitch. I’m sorry. Like, I’m sorry that I tried to, you know, like, like, you know, preserve your, like, integrity, but whatever. So, you know, like I said, I would, you know, that’s is that I would I would give an I, I and I’m sorry, but the petty version. But I’m sorry go, go ahead, Meg. 


MegScoop Thomas: No, I would say I think where she messed up is when once she told her new friend a.) No he’s not getting a divorce. Actually, he’s pregnant with my friend’s baby like they’re still married. Once she said that, she should have told her new friend like, hey, this is not sitting right with me. This is my long time friend. Like, you guys got to figure this out or I’m going to tell her. Now that’s only if that’s your like Imani said, that’s your best friend. Like, that’s somebody that’s I’m assuming she’s probably close to her when she mentioned it’s her long time friend. I don’t know if it’s necessarily a best friend, but I think it’s close enough to where you may want to tell them. If that’s the case, then yeah, I would have told old girl like, look, love you and I’d realize you didn’t know, it’s not your fault he this man lied to you. But now that you know, you got to–


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: –Decide what you’re going to do. And if you’re going to continue to mess with this man, that’s your choice. But I do have to tell my friend, because that as a mom, we’re all you know, this is a mom group right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: We’re all mom’s like, you don’t want that to happen–


Dr. Imani Walker: That’s true. 


MegScoop Thomas: –To you. And she didn’t you know, she didn’t know that this man was still married and like continuing with his wife, which is why you got to kind of be careful when people are not fully divorced. You have to make sure you know the situation very well because it could be a liar like this man saying he– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: –divorced and he’s not right. So you guys gonna be very–


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: –Careful with that. But like I would have presented it to the the friend first like, hey, you know what you gonna to do? Because if you don’t say something, I’m gonna have to say something that’s not okay like– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: -she’s pregnant. That’s my friend. Um. I wouldn’t have talked to the husband at all. I would have talked to the–


Dr. Imani Walker: No. 


MegScoop Thomas: –Girl. Now, mind you, if old girl, the new mom, new friend didn’t say anything by X amount of dates, then with this being my longtime friend, I would have told her, I would have been like I already told old girl, she got until this day. She [indistinct] and I gotta say something.


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. [indistinct]


MegScoop Thomas: But if it’s somebody that you, you not really cool with then I would have just been like, I would have told my new friend the information and been like, well, guess that’s on y’all, but– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: –if it’s your real you know? And I the reason why I think this is a good friend is because at the end of this, Myra says it’s actually still not sitting right with me. Even after she’s gotten iced out and yelled at by the husband. She still doesn’t like the situation. So that’s why I’m saying I think it is a situation where this is her good friend. So at this point you already been iced out girl, you might as well go ahead and tell your pregnant friend. You did went through all of that for what? [laughing]


Dr. Imani Walker: Look. I wouldn’t have said shit to the husband. I mean– 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –My best friend used to be married to somebody who I like at the end of it, at the end of all of it, I was like, I do not fuck with you and you know that. Okay, so we gonna give ourselves a little like, you know, when people come in to give you a hug and they be like pat pat pat like na na na and they don’t be– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Really giving you I was like, I’m just doing this because she in the same room. Okay, so–


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Get off me now. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Ugh. But, but yeah I um, I wouldn’t have said anything to the husband um but yeah I definitely I think I got a little too excited, got a little too hot. But I like your explanation, Meg, more than mine [laughing] more than mine. I definitely would have been like, you know what? Like, you got a week like for real. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: And then I’m a tell my, like, friend because because you you new new, and you on some dumb shit, and I I can’t, like, I can’t do this. This is ridiculous. So um. So, yeah, that’s that’s that’s what I would do. So. Good job, Meg. I kind of gave the little, you know, it was, it was a semi raggedy version, I’ll admit that. My, my response it’s fine. It’s fine we’re we’re–


MegScoop Thomas: It’s fine, we all got it in us. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –we’re here now. Okay. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right we all got it in us. 


MegScoop Thomas: [laughing] Okay our next–


Dr. Imani Walker: Some of us more than others. 


MegScoop Thomas: Okay. Our next letter comes from a listener by the name of Zoelle. She says, Hey, Dr. Imani and Meg, how would you diagnose somebody who worries about everything? I drive myself crazy, always thinking and worrying about everything. I get headaches and hives from overthinking, whether it’s about my kids, money, my marriage, friendships, parents, driving, going outside, and my health. I worry and think the worst is always going to happen. I don’t know how to shift my thoughts so I can live life and not worry so much about it. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Zoelle. First of all, hi, girl you got anxiety. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: That’s classic anxiety. You need to go to the doctor. Bye. I’m just kidding. I’m just kidding. I’m just kidding. You have anxiety. No, I’m just kidding. You have anxiety, but like like and I’m only. I was only making a joke like that because this is very clear cut. Um. You worry about everything, you overthink. You have headaches and hives from overthinking. You know who else used to get headaches and hives from overthinking? Me. Cause now, usually, I usually would. That would happen to me like before like I would get headaches and hives and then I’d have like, a panic attack. Yo, you want to know something I discovered? 


MegScoop Thomas: What? 


Dr. Imani Walker: Like it took me okay, everybody out there listening. Do not follow my advice, okay? I’m very hard headed [laughter] and stubborn. Okay, so I’m just. But I. But I’m just telling you what I learned. So I’m a doctor, okay? Doctors notoriously do not like being patients. I am that person. Like, I’ll go to the doctor, they’ll be like, okay, so put on this gown. I’m like, okay. And they come back in the room and I’m fully clothed and they like, what you going to put the gown on? I’m like. No, I’m not. I’m just going to tell you what what what’s going on. Like, I don’t want you touching me and shit like get away from me like– 


MegScoop Thomas: Oh my gosh. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I like I’m only here. I’m only here because I can’t figure this out on my own. [laughter] So I’m real like I’m real combat. Like, I’m not combative, like I be yelling and shit but I’m just like, no, I’m not going to do that. So or I’ll be like–


MegScoop Thomas: I know you’re doctors like–


Dr. Imani Walker: –I’ll draw my own blood. 


MegScoop Thomas: Oh, here she come. Here come– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Here she come. 


MegScoop Thomas: –Dr. Imani again.


Dr. Imani Walker: Here she come right here she come like I draw my own blood it’s fine. Just give me the butterfly I’ll do it. Okay. Thank you. Bye. Here. Like, I just. I’m just like. Nope, nope, mm mmm. Nope. 


MegScoop Thomas: What! [laughing]


Dr. Imani Walker: You don’t know how to do it right. So. [laughter] So I say all this to say I finally, like, discover I finally figured out this, like, medical mystery that I’ve been having. Right? So here’s what was going on for years and years. Right? I’ve been anxious, just anxious, anxious, anxious since I was a kid. I signed on to do this reality show. Right. Which is it’s craziness. It’s craziness. Like I’m working full time, I’m um filming, I’m doing these confessional interviews. It takes 2 hours to get your makeup done, then se– another seven hours to crack all the jokes and ha ha ha, you in front of a green screen. Anyway, when the pandemic hit me, Imani completely was overwhelmed. We were all overwhelmed. But I realize I did all this research over the past, like I want to say six or seven months. I discovered that because I was so anxious. And my and when you’re when you have a lot of anxiety, your cortisol level in your body is very high. Right. I was having these issues where I was getting a lot of swelling in my body. Now I’m almost 47, so I’m aware that I’m probably perimenopausal even though like, you know, I can still pop and do all of that shit. But anyway, my point is, is that my point is, is that I was starting to have like I was like, maybe I’m perimenopausal, my hormones are being weird. So long story short, I started taking progesterone. Again. Go to your doctor. Don’t listen to me. I’m just giving this as an example of what can happen when you have too much anxiety. My anxiety was super high. My cortisol level was really high, and the precursor to cortisol is progesterone, which is important if you’re a woman and especially if you are, you know, a woman of like, you know, you have me like I have my period still, but like I was just really, really puffy and swollen and I didn’t have a appetite. And like, a lot of women complain of like weight gain uh when when they’re a perimenopausal or menopausal. Long story short, I started taking some progesterone supplements that I got off of Amazon. They work really well and my puffiness went away and like I stopped being like so homicidal and crazy. And I finally figured out because I was reading these papers this past weekend, these um these in these journals that progesterone is the precursor to cortisol. So once I started taking progesterone, right, it it I got more cortisol and it just chilled everything out. But also I was taking Prozac and I put forth the effort is I guess is also what I’m saying to to bring my anxiety down. So I say all this to you Zoelle because you need to see the doctor, not necessarily for your hormones. But I’m just saying I’m a prime example of what can happen when you are in a state of fight or flight all the time. And it was going on for years and years and years and years. And finally I began to have physical symptoms, so Zoelle. Go to your primary care doctor, go see a therapist. Even you could even go see a psychiatrist. I’m thinking that you, you know, you should definitely start out with therapy, but you may just need to take like some medication for a little bit to really get your um your neurotransmitters, your serotonin, your um your epinephrine, norepinephrine, like back to where it needs to be because you’re operating at a level of like like you’re operating at a level of fight or flight that is really, you know, could be physiologically damaging. And at this point, it’s it’s it’s uh it’s psychologically and mentally damaging. So, you know, Zoelle go to the doctor um and get that worked out because this sounds exactly like me. Um. And also, I’ll tell you like this, when I was anxious, I had depression as well. And I just was married to somebody that wasn’t contributing and that was adding to my stress, too. So you may be worrying about money issues as well, because when you’re anxious and depressed, you really you can’t think well, like I wasn’t– 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Thinking straight. And once, like once I took a moment and breathed, I was like, ugh, I got to break up with you. Ugh, [laughter] like, this is stupid. And then ever since then– 


MegScoop Thomas: You gotta make some changes yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –I’ve been like, Oh, yeah, I had to make some changes and ever since then, I mean, granted, like, I still had to deal with his dumb shit um because we were in the process of getting divorced. But then after that, ever since then, please, that’s why I be buying all these trees and, like, plant all these trees and and living my best life. So. Zoelle go to the doctor for real. Um. You don’t want this to, it’s already at a pretty, you know, a pretty um high point as far as your anxiety. But you don’t want it to start affecting your body, um–


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Which it sounds like it is, because you’re having headaches and hives. And I and I know that life. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: But I’m not about that life anymore. So um so yeah. Go go get you some help, Zoelle. So, Myra,  


MegScoop Thomas: Agreed. 


Dr. Imani Walker: You know, Myra, Zoelle, thank you for submitting your questions. I’m not shaking my head at you, Myra. You can’t see me. I’m not shaking my head at you. I’m just saying like you did, you tried. You tried. 


MegScoop Thomas: You tried. 


Dr. Imani Walker: You did, you tried. But now you got to do the right thing, okay? Like– 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –You, you don’t apologize to either of the raggedy people. You need to really though, like, tell your friend though. Um and Zoelle go to the doctor. So thank you for submitting your questions, you guys. I hope we were able to help you. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yes. And if you have any questions or a problem centered around your mental health and you want us to help you, please send your emails to You can also text or leave us a voicemail at 818-252-9462. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. So everybody, we’re going to switch gears. We’re going to take a quick break. But after the break, we’re going to be chatting about the psychology behind keeping up with the Joneses. Stay with us. [music break] Okay, you guys, it’s time to get into this deep dive. With holiday spending in full swing, it’s easy to fall into wanting to keep up with the Joneses as people post their new purchases and gifts online. 


MegScoop Thomas: We want to make sure you not only protect your pockets, but you protect your mental health this holiday season as well. Dr. Imani, I want to hear your take on who the Joneses actually are and why does everyone want to keep up with them? 


Dr. Imani Walker: I mean, the Joneses. I don’t know. I feel I feel like the Joneses are like a boogey, like the boogeyman. They’re like boogeymen. They’re like they’re just it’s like they are this construct that we all devise in our head of, like, everything that we’ve ever seen that we’ve wanted or that we um, you know, that we kind of like, oh, that would be so nice if I could da da da da. If I could da da da da then I could this, that, and the third. I, I feel I mean, that’s that’s really what I believe the Joneses to be. You know what’s interesting, I read this article yesterday um in Prevention magazine, shout out to Prevention because I’m getting older and I guess they’re sending me more stuff. Um. [laughter] But I read this article. [laughing] I read this article yesterday, and they said that it was about people who are super agers, like people who are like 95, 100, and they don’t have anything wrong with them. They just out here like living they best life. Um. And I’m like, Wow, what is that life like? Because my arthritis be like, just listen, killing me. Um. But they said that that these the doctors that they interviewed for for this article said that um discontent and depression is is really more so a are really more so disorders or issues of the young that as people get older their–


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Their frustration decreases and their because their experience increases and so I guess things aren’t as new. So like– 


MegScoop Thomas: –Yeah.


Dr. Imani Walker: For example, why would I at my age want to be keeping up with the Joneses? Like, I know what I like, I know what I want, I know what I don’t want. I know what’s cool. I know what’s not cool, but I’m still open to you know, change and stuff. But, you know, am I, am I looking on Instagram like, ooh, like, you know, I really want that bandage dress because the model in this thing is probably like 19 years old and I’m nowhere near there. And like, no, like I don’t like I don’t, I don’t care about stuff like that anymore. So–


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –I feel like it’s, it’s always interesting to me to see people who are older, who do still try to keep up with the Joneses because a lot of times– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –They end up fucking up and then they end up in like like breaking the law. [laughing]


MegScoop Thomas: Right, right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Like reg– Like, like– 


MegScoop Thomas: It’s greed. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –ending up in like, it’s greed. It’s like a pick a pick a Bravo franchise. Pick a Real Housewives franchise. There was Teresa Giudice, um her husband, um I believe. I don’t know if he got um sent back to Italy– 


MegScoop Thomas: [indistinct] 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Because he was born. He was he was born in Italy. So after his–


MegScoop Thomas: Oh I think he got deported yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. He got deported. 


MegScoop Thomas: I think, I don’t know. 


Dr. Imani Walker: She had to go to prison. Yeah, he had to go to prison. No, they were like, no, you’re getting deported. And he was like, I’m not even from there they was like, oh, well, apparently you from near enough. So you going back to your homeland. Um. Who else, like just like any oh, the the chick who was on um uh Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. Her husband, um–


MegScoop Thomas: Oh yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Tom Girardi. 


MegScoop Thomas: Mm hmm. 


Dr. Imani Walker: A mess. It is a mess out here. I saw a documentary on them like this past summer. I was like all the all of this. This man has got to be, they he they’re they’re saying now that that Tom Girardi is has like dementia. And I was like, damn, that was a quick downturn, but it can happen. This man was essentially like defrauding, like his clients, just to– 


MegScoop Thomas: Wow. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Keep just to keep her happy. Like, it’s–. 


MegScoop Thomas: It’s it’s so–


Dr. Imani Walker: It is crazy. And look–


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –I’m just like, you are, like, 75, 80 years old. Like, calm down. And that’s what I mean. Like, I feel like keeping up with the Joneses is something that is definitely more prevalent amongst the young, or at least it should be. If it’s–


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Going to be, it shouldn’t like once you get older, you it’s like, you know what? I’m just I’m a just kick it with with these flowers and trees and shit and just and just and just keep cool. But I would say, you know, to answer your question, now that I think about it, I think I think about like even like relatives I have, like my cousins, um my little cousins who, you know, they’re like in their twenties. And when they were a little younger, like I think their version of the Joneses was probably like the Kardashians, which is so sad. [laughter] It’s so sad. I’m like you know– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah and it’s [?] yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: That they basically just yeah, they just like kind of pick body part. They it’s like they pick they pick the Black things they like and just slap them on their bodies, including– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –The men that they like I– [stutter] [laughter] some men I’m telling you, those men, those men look, they look brainwashed, they look brainwashed, [laughter] they’re just like, oh, okay. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: All right. Real like okay. Alright, okay? What. Yup. Mm Hmm. That’s fine. Oh, we going to Nobu agian? Like, they. It’s just. They just seem like, they just seem off. So I guess, you know, that would I guess the Kardashians would be the modern day Joneses um you know.


MegScoop Thomas: I mean, yeah if you think about you know, especially because anything they sell is just gets sold out um you know, like from–


Dr. Imani Walker: Even if it’s garbage. 


MegScoop Thomas: –Kylie Jenner. Yeah. I mean, uh what’s her name? I thought it was really ironic because Kylie had a lip line that came out and I was like, she just got lips like two years ago. And her lip line, her lip products are sold out. I was like, now y’all know good and well Black women been selling– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Y’all know good and god damn well. 


MegScoop Thomas: –lip products forever. Okay? 


Dr. Imani Walker: Fashion fair. Comeon Fashion fair.


MegScoop Thomas: Thank you. Okay. Iman had her line and everything, so I’m like, wait a minute. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Iman still got her line. 


MegScoop Thomas: [indistinct]. 


Dr. Imani Walker: She still got her line.


MegScoop Thomas: See, like– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Cuz.


MegScoop Thomas: Y’all didn’t want to buy all. Okay, so I got it. It’s, you know, it’s so it’s I get it, but I, I’m afraid for it as well because I have a daughter now. So what is– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: –In this materialistic society, like, how do I teach her that these materials do not matter? How do you teach that–


Dr. Imani Walker: You be her mom. 


MegScoop Thomas: –To your kids that. I know. But that–


Dr. Imani Walker: You just– 


MegScoop Thomas: But some– 


Dr. Imani Walker: You be you.


MegScoop Thomas: You know, my mom was a mom, too. But like, how do I even with your son, like, how do you teach him that he doesn’t need to have, you know, materials like everything that– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Um. 


MegScoop Thomas: –[?] this game that, you know, like how do you make sure they know value is not in that? 


Dr. Imani Walker: Um. You know what I I was going to say, it’s kind of hard, but it’s not. I’ll put it to you like this. Very so my son is in 10th grade um and he was let’s say he was kind of falling behind in his classes. And I and, you know, obviously, I’m going to find out. And then here’s the thing. When he knows that when he gets in trouble, it’s he got to talk to me. He got to talk to my boyfriend, Peter. He got to talk to my mom, my dad, um his like his–


MegScoop Thomas: Everybody. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –His right, his godmother Irene. He got to talk to his his play cousin Russell. Like he got to talk to, like, six people. And it’s just like–


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –It just don’t stop. It’s just can’t won’t stop. And finally he was like [sigh] because if I say it, it’s one thing. But if five other people are like, what are you doing? Then he’s like, okay, now I say all that to say because he he he loves Tyler the creator, I love Tyler the Creator too and so for my son, who like my dad will basically buy him anything like, Oh, you want the new PS4 seven or ten or whatever. Okay, I got it for you. I got you, I got you. But the basically it’s like you have one job and that’s to be a student. And if you are not doing that, then you don’t get shit. And that’s it like period. 


MegScoop Thomas: That’s, yup. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Um. So, so, so when it comes to like my son, he, he just discovered like, oh, if I get, if I have fresh clothes and like, you know, I get more attention, you know, at school from my friends and from like girls and stuff. And so he’s been buying like he’s been wanting to buy rather because it’s my money, he’s been wanting to buy like Tyler the Creator stuff. And I’m like–


MegScoop Thomas: Okay. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –boy that is $300? Or that is like how much ever money? So we’ve been going to like we’ve been um thrifting so we’ve been going to like the Melrose um Flea market on Sunday out here in L.A. Um. The next time they had the Pasadena flea market, um we’re–


MegScoop Thomas: Okay. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –gonna go because like Will like he’s not really one for going through clothes, but I will and I’ll be like, yo, you like this shirt? Yo, you like this or you like that. So he’s learning that like style is about it’s not about spending money. It’s about like your own individuality and what–


MegScoop Thomas: That’s good. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –What you like and what and how that reflects upon you. So. Um. So he was like, oh yeah, my friend in school. Like he told me he, he has a Playboy shirt, which sounds very salacious and a little bit extra for a 15 year old. But it’s it’s the it’s the little playboy like um brand and it’s the first it’s the first Black centerfold. It’s just her like, it’s just the cover. It wasn’t anything, like, weird, [laughter] um but he was like, Oooh, my friend at school he said he wanted to know where he could get one. Um. But I say all that to say that it’s very important to just teach your kids individuality and– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: So that when it comes time to, you know, like like he very much eschews like he’s like oh there’s this girl in my school and she bought some hoodie that’s like $1,000 and he was like, I don’t know why she would do that. That is so stupid. Like, she like she, she’s a follower–


MegScoop Thomas: Yes. 


Dr. Imani Walker: And I’m and I’m like, yeah, basically, I’m like, I’m like, because I’m like, money is a tool. And when it comes to and when I, what I told him especially about like people who are celebrities like the Kardashians, let’s say, most of that shit they get is for free. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 100–


Dr. Imani Walker: Like let’s just be real. Like they’re not–


MegScoop Thomas: That’s so true yeah.


Dr. Imani Walker: They’re not buying this shit. And that’s how it works. Like when you when you got money money. And when you a celebrity like people who are like billionaires, millionaires, they spending money on shit, but it ain’t on they personal shit. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: It’s not on like clothes and stuff like that. They might buy some property, but they’re just kind of like flitting around like, oh, how much is it? A million dollars? Okay, fine. Whatever. Like their they don’t. And people just want to be around them so they get free shit. The Kardashians get free shit all–


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Of the time. All the time. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yup. 


Dr. Imani Walker: So we meanwhile, we’re trying to keep up with them by buying the shit that they get for free. It’s a, we we all hustling backwards, basically. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: We hustling hella backwards. So I guess, you know, to answer your initial question, how do I do it as a mom? I guess I just the one thing is that you really got to teach your kids to be confident. And– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –I honestly think that this generation of like of like Black kids has like whoever their parents are, which is basically like us, we did a great job because when– 


MegScoop Thomas: I agree. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –it comes to like they’ll they’ll call somebody out in a second like, excuse me– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –No. You stole that from her and she’s Black and they and now we’re boycotting you like they’re quick with that. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: So I really I really I love that. 


MegScoop Thomas: I appreciate that. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: I think, you know, when I think about myself and like, just do I have these tendencies? Because, you know, I have a very public persona on Instagram, like, do I have anything? So I’ll tell you about me when it comes up with like Instagram and do I have any tendencies to try to keep up with anybody? I’m a be honest, I do. You want to know what it is? I’ll be– 


Dr. Imani Walker: –What is it? 


MegScoop Thomas: –Following all of, I’ll be following all of these plastic surgeons. [laughing]


Dr. Imani Walker: I do too. But you know why? 


MegScoop Thomas: That do like– [laughing] 


Dr. Imani Walker: I do. I’m I’m like I’m like, damn, bitch you look snatched. And I daydream about it sometimes, but I’m just like, but then I’ll look in the mirror and I’m like, I’m okay with my injections. I’m okay. 


MegScoop Thomas: You good. 


Dr. Imani Walker: And at some point– 


MegScoop Thomas: So– 


Dr. Imani Walker: I’m going to have, at some point you you have to stop. Like, you can’t– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –be 65, 70 years old talking about I’m trying to be snatched. Go home. Go home Grandma. [laughter] You can’t like your body can’t handle that like it there’s– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Like you have to accept it. Like I’m 47. I’m not going to look 19. And I don’t– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –want to be 19, because when I was 19, I was girl please. I was running around just– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –doing the dumbest of shit. So I don’t want to be that. I don’t. I don’t want to do that. But but I feel you. I mean, I do I do love looking at some plastic surgery on Instagram I’m like, damn like– 


MegScoop Thomas: I, I mean it looks amazing.


Dr. Imani Walker: –look at you. 


MegScoop Thomas: And you know, especially because I have this, you know, post two baby body, right? Just– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: So I’m still, you know, it takes, what, almost two years to heal from having a baby. So, like, like everything, hormones, everything. So I’m like–


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: Alright Megan. Give yourself some grace, but in the meantime, I’d be looking like, ooh, so they took the fat out of there and put it there. Hmm. It’s still her fat. Is it wrong? Hmm? I don’t think so. So– [laugh]


Dr. Imani Walker: No, look none of it’s wrong. None of it’s wrong. You know how long I you know how long I um I researched before I actually got plastic surgery. Let me see. I first went to see a surgeon. I think my son was three, so that would have been 2010. And then and I went for like a consultation. He was like, yeah, we gonna do this, and do that. And da da da da da, did I have the money for it? No, I just wanted to see what he would say. 


MegScoop Thomas: Mm hmm. 


Dr. Imani Walker: And then I didn’t get plastic surgery until 2018. And I’m glad I waited. I’m glad, like, because I really like I was like, okay, I’m going to train really hard. I’m going to work out. I’m going to see like once all this is done, where do–


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –I need, you know, where do I want things? And then I, you know, I went and did it. So I’m glad I did it like that. But I get it. Like, it’s, it’s hard. Like it’s it is difficult because part also part of social media, like the actual scrolling that like the pushing like the screen up is, is, is reminiscent purposefully of like of a slot machine. So it’s just like– 


MegScoop Thomas: Mmmmm. 


Dr. Imani Walker: It’s like, okay, okay. 


MegScoop Thomas: That makes sense. 


Dr. Imani Walker: And it never because it never ends, right? It never ends. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: And that’s why in a casino, you see people there for, like hours and hours and hours because you can just sit there and just it never ends and you just keep looking to the top. Looking to the top, looking to the top like, oh, there’s something new. There’s going to be something new, there’s going to be something new. But yeah, I follow. I follow like I have there’s two plastic surgeons right now that I really, really like and I like how they do their stuff. But at the same time, I’m like, do I want that? No. I don’t.


MegScoop Thomas: Right but hold on. But Imani is that what like– 


Dr. Imani Walker: But it’s cool. 


MegScoop Thomas: Do you think that that is a version of keeping up with the Joneses, specifically Mrs. Jones, right like a look, that’s what I always battle with because it’s like I like I guess I’m trying to get down to why I want to get what I want to get. Why do I care so much about having a certain figure? Like, why can’t I just be happy with–


Dr. Imani Walker: Because you– 


MegScoop Thomas: –these mom rolls and this mom body that I have now accumulated? 


Dr. Imani Walker: Well, there’s a couple of reasons why. I mean, one is that you, one is that, you know, that body technology exists, like the plastic– 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Surgery exists. Right. And, you know, people like me, like, I’m sure a bunch of other people who have gotten it done before and they’re happy with that. So it’s not like, oh, you know, this is like a new frontier. It’s not like, oooh, I want to go to Saturn, but no one else has done it. Like, you know, people that have done it and they’re happy with it. Um. The other thing is that we’re living longer like–


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –I mean, I mean, Black people are going to well, Black people, unfortunately, have usually pass away in their seventies. Women live a little bit older. But I think that our generation will definitely live longer. And even though when I hit 40, I was like, oh, my God, I’m middle aged now. Oh, my God, really I’m about to hit middle age and I’m about to be 50. So I’m just like I’m like, whatever. I’m still cute. So mmm– 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. Yes you are.


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. So it’s I think it’s I think it’s, thanks. I think it’s just that we know that it exists and we know that it’s possible. And also because we’re we’re we believe that and I guess we are kind of like dying older. We still want the chance to be cute. And– 


MegScoop Thomas: Mm hmm. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I mean, why not? Like, listen, back in the day, like back in the early eighties, it was it was Jane Fonda. It was Dexedrine. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Which is like a stimulant that you can get you could buy at the drugstore and and aerobics and jazzercise. And that’s what bitches out here was doing, like moms out here getting they skinny on with some stimulants and some aerobics and now it’s plastic surgery. It’s, it’s, it’s this. It’s all the same thing. But I also don’t think that it’s terrible to want to feel like yourself. Like I. It’s one thing. It’s one thing to go to a plastic surgeon and say, and we’ve seen these people. Like, I want to look like Angelina Jolie, like octomom. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Or I want to look like Kim Kardashian. Or I want to look like Kylie. That’s that to me would be keeping up with the Joneses, right? If you’re like I went to when I went to my plastic surgeon, I was like, listen, I’m not trying to win no contest. I’m not trying to get out of a parking ticket. Just put my titties back to where they was at. That’s all I want. Like, that’s just put, just put just put em back where they was. Give me my waist back. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Slim this down some, and that’s it. Like, I’m not trying to come out of there looking like a unicorn with wings– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –And shit and a and a fucking horn. And I was like just I was like, just put it back. That’s all I want. I just want to look like me. And I don’t think it’s terrible to I mean, we can be moms and have a baby and still be like, you know what? Like, I love you and I carry you, and the human body is amazing. But if you think I’m going to walk around for the rest of my life with this reminder that I’m just a mom. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Like. Like I was out here fucking popping. Like. Like put put it back. Like, I’m trying to get I’m trying to look like that. And I don’t think that’s a terrible thing. I think it’s a terrible thing when you want things you can’t afford. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I think that and and please believe, like you can still get the body that you pretty much want without surgery. You just have to work out dumb hard. And it may mean that you just don’t have a life. And for most people, that’s just not attainable. So I don’t– 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –I don’t think it’s terrible. It’s like, you know what? I want to look like I want to look like me. Like I’m used to me being a certain way. Please suck this out because this is foreign to me like this is new. I don’t I don’t want this. Now and I told myself now when I hit like 65, 70, whatever’s happening, that’s that’s what– 


MegScoop Thomas: [?] gonna stop. 


Dr. Imani Walker: That’s it, right? That’s what you that’s what you get because because you you not about to be up in here talking about okay, so I’m trying to um give me this um. I’m trying to look like Black China like bitch. No you somebody grandma go sit down.


MegScoop Thomas: See. Yeah– 


Dr. Imani Walker: So yeah, I don’t, I don’t think that’s bad. 


MegScoop Thomas: –And I think I just I just want to make sure, you know, if, when I get this because I do plan to get all of my nip tucks done. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: I need to [cough] I’m all about being authentic. And so I need to make sure I go. I clear the journey within my head of why exactly I’m doing this and [clearing throat] making sure it’s not from a like I’m not being vain. And so it’s really just I don’t care if anyone knows or if everyone knows– 


Dr. Imani Walker: But you can be vain– 


MegScoop Thomas: –like I just like how I look. 


Dr. Imani Walker: You you could be I mean you could be vain–


MegScoop Thomas: I well, you know what? You, I can. 


Dr. Imani Walker: [indistinct] is not terrible. 


MegScoop Thomas: I can. However, now that I have a daughter, I look at things different Imani, I’m not even going to lie like– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: I would have never even questioned this before her. But then, you know, I don’t ever growing up as a as a chunky kid, like [cough] I didn’t have the most, the best self-esteem. I was always, you know, wanting to look like somebody else because I was chunky and–


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: –You know, I didn’t I don’t want her to have those kind of body image issues. So I have to make sure if I’m going to go here and get all this fat sucked out, like I need to make sure that my message within, you know, what I’m feeling and why I’m doing it makes sense because I don’t want to be hypocritical to her in the event she has– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: –Some body issues and it’s like I’m well I’m a just get it sucked out. Like, well, like, I need you to be positive and happy within yourself first. Like, if it doesn’t get sucked out are you still–


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: –Happy. And I think that’s– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. Exactly.


MegScoop Thomas: –That’s what I need to make sure I’m I can answer 100% before I go and do anything. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I’ll put it to you like this. I don’t know if you’ll ever get to that point. Like and like like. Okay, I’m waking up this morning, and on this day, I’m completely happy with my body. Everything is fine. This is great. I accept everything about it, but I will. And that’s and I say that not that it’s a terrible thing, but that just because that’s just realistic, like that’s just like I got plastic surgery and there’s still things that I’m like, Oooh, I wish that I could, but I’m just like, I mean, I’m like Imani, please just stop eating so much bread and you’ll be fine. But but I will tell you this. Once I got plastic surgery, I was like bitch [laughter] I was like bitch. I was like, I was like y’all motherfuckers can’t tell me shit. I was like, I’m out here, bitch. I’m out here. I’m like, Oh, you wanna see my stomach? You wanna see my stomach again? You wanna see my stomach? Like I was just fucking out here. And honestly, listen, I was like, I just spent upwards of, like, close to $20,000. You goddamn–


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Right, you god damn right. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. Right. That’s yeah.


Dr. Imani Walker: Hell yeah. Like, you wanna see this? Look look look look you can’t even see the scar. Look look. Look. See how they perky? See, see this shit is banging. Like and and honest, and for me, it was it was like I had thought about it for so long. 


MegScoop Thomas: Mm hmm. 


Dr. Imani Walker: And when I went to the doctor, I knew I brought pictures. I was like, this is what I want. I want it to look like this. The funniest thing and I know I told you this was when I did I tell you I told you when I had to go get like um. I had to go pick um out my implants. I probably did. 


MegScoop Thomas: No, you didn’t tell me. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I had to pick out my– I didn’t tell you that? So I had to go pick out my implants and and the and the the chick who was there, she was the office manager, and she was like, okay, so I think you probably giving your frame. You probably will want these. And I was like, bitch these are Ds, [laughter] like I didn’t have D’s before. Like, I’m not like I’m really I’m not trying to buy a new bra. And I didn’t I was like–


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –I just just put it back. And she was like, you know what. I probably should have gone smaller. I was like, I mean, probably if that’s what you want. But I I just I told my I was like, I just want my shit back to where it was. I don’t want to come out of here–


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Like one of the plastic surgeons that I follow on Instagram. He’s really talented, but he be making these old bitches look like brand new bitches. And it’s cool–


MegScoop Thomas: See and that’s a problem because– 


Dr. Imani Walker: –but I don’t want to– 


MegScoop Thomas: –That’s what I be looking at. [laughing]


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. I don’t want to look like I personally don’t want to look like a brand new bitch. Like, I just like I have a picture of myself at 25. 


MegScoop Thomas: Mm hmm. 


Dr. Imani Walker: And I’m like, okay, just, you know, just put my cheekbones, you know, do that. That that’s that’s– 


MegScoop Thomas: Right right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –All I’m looking for. I don’t. Don’t make me into somebody else. And that is kind of what we started to see, especially with, like, you know, reality TV and some of these, you know, franchises. Like, do you remember when when when NeNe Leakes came back with, like, a different nose? 


MegScoop Thomas: Oh, yeah. And I was like, Oh no– 


Dr. Imani Walker: I was like huh– 


MegScoop Thomas: –Girl, you should have left it. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I was like, Oh. Hmm. Okay. 


MegScoop Thomas: Should have left it. The other one was–


Dr. Imani Walker: It took a little while to get used to but I was like, I personally as a Black person, I stop at my nose like like I just, you know, like hon– but I also I don’t have a nose that covers the, you know, like a large part of my face. But to me, like, that’s something that I just don’t want to mess with because that to me is like, you know, Africa and my heritage and all that. Um. But, but, yeah, I, I I think there’s a difference between, like, I want to beautify myself versus and keep in mind, keep in mind legit. I want to beautify myself. I’m going to work my ass off and I’m going to get this money to beautify myself and, and, and into into how I want to look, which is pretty much how I used to look and getting a free– because those, those people be getting free, free surgeries. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yes. 


Dr. Imani Walker: You know that. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yes. Yes. 


Dr. Imani Walker: They get free surgeries and then they be on Instagram like you guys should go to doctor so-and-so because look how he did me, and da da da da da. So they got a free $20,000 surgery. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: When to keep up with whoever else is on their show or whoever else is in their sphere of influence. I think– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –That’s I think that’s different. Um. But I will say that honestly and I said this a million times before, I’m not on social media like that anymore. Like it’s I and if I am, it’s like I’m looking at like, you know, dog memes, like food, you know, like just–


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –like, you know, the occasional plastic surgery. I’m like, oooh, I’m like, look, I’m like, oh, she he got, he got, he got her eyes. He got like the little, like dark spots under her eyes. Like, Ooh, he did a good job. [laughter] But like, but other than that, like, I like the transformation, but I’m, I’m not like, ooh, I want that or I want that because at the end of the day, the pandemic really made me focus on what I wanted. And I was like, I don’t want to wear heels no more, and I’m just going to–


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Walk around in these, like, busted clogs and, you know, have dirt on my clothes cause I’m in my garden. But for some people, it was like, oh my God, I have to fucking get out of here. Like, I feel like a crazy person. Like–. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: So I I get it. But I just think that collectively and especially with Twitter kind of imploding, I think it’s kind of showing people like, you know what? Like this social media experiment was cool, but we kind of need to pull back a little bit. Um. 


MegScoop Thomas: For sure. No you no– 


Dr. Imani Walker: And– 


MegScoop Thomas: –it was never meant– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: –To show everything about your life in any way, shape or fashion. Like, that’s not normal. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Never, never. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. That’s too much for anybody. 


Dr. Imani Walker: People will be like, Imani where you at? Yeah, people be like Imani, what you been doing? I’m like– 


MegScoop Thomas: Stuff. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Same shit. Like, I just don’t tell you. Just cause I don’t tell you doesn’t mean I’m dead. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Like legit. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Um. But I think, you know the the scrolling in and of itself, like physiologically does something to your brain um that ties into like the, like the reward center and dopamine and all that kind of stuff. So I just think that we collectively need to like stop scrolling so much. And then in addition to that, then you won’t be spending as much because guaranteed listen, listen. Anytime I’m on my phone for too long, I be like, ooh I’m a buy something. I’m like [laughter] [indistinct]. I need it. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I’m like I need that pot. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right, right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: And then and, you know what and I wait, I’ll wait. I’m like, you get two days if you really want it after two days, you can have it. I’ve been doing that for a long time, but like–


MegScoop Thomas: It’s good. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I’m like, you don’t need a pot. You need a pot? Imani, you need a pot? Really? Cause you don’t have a– 


MegScoop Thomas: Right right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –bunch of pots? Um. But, yeah, I would, you know, I would just like you mentioned this on um on our last episode, like budget. Like you got to budget, you got a budget. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Like, everybody needs a budget. Don’t get crazy. Like, I just spent a ridiculous amount of money on Amazon this past this past week, but it was for stuff I really needed. So I’m kind of like, It’s okay. You didn’t totally play yourself. [laughter] Um. But yeah, I think that especially between now and Christmas is going to be really difficult, especially also like parents are going to be like, Oh, I got to get my kid the latest toy I got to da da da da da. Y’all know that everything going on sale out the day after Christmas, right? 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Like–


MegScoop Thomas: Might as well just look– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Just– 


MegScoop Thomas: You get your gifts after. I’ve never been big on gifts so. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: Sorry. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: My kids are not going to be big on gifts either. You want that? Even though my son thinks he can get a new toy every time we go to the store, I’ll be like, no. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Oh. That was me.


MegScoop Thomas: [?] did you throw away. I was like, did you throw away your other toys? Because we’re not going to be bringing new toys, he was like, Okay, when I get home, yeah yeah, I’ll put them in a bag I was like alright– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Uh huh. Uh huh.


MegScoop Thomas: –we’ll see. No.


Dr. Imani Walker: Uh huh uh uh. Mm hmm. 


MegScoop Thomas: Those those– 


Dr. Imani Walker: No you not. 


MegScoop Thomas: –toys are still there. So you not getting no new toys. [laughing]


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. But that’s but– 


MegScoop Thomas: [indistinct]. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –That’s actually a good point you brought up because then it’s like as soon as I close my phone, do I care about that shit? No. 


MegScoop Thomas: No. No.


Dr. Imani Walker: It’s the same thing with your son. [laughter] It’s like, ooh, I’ll. Yeah, okay. I want this, though. Okay. Yeah, I’m a throw it away when I get home. Then he gets home. He not even gonna remember that toy. 


MegScoop Thomas: No, and he doesn’t. 


Dr. Imani Walker: It’s the same thing. 


MegScoop Thomas: So. 


Dr. Imani Walker: We’re all just three– 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –And four year olds at heart. 


MegScoop Thomas: There you go. There you go. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Honestly. Yeah. And then also, look, if y’all, if if you find yourself if you find that you scrolling too much, you trying to compare yourself to other people. Y’all know comparison is the thief of joy. That’s what um Theodore Roosevelt said. It’s a really good quote. I love that quote. Um. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: You know, stop comparing and and and get some help like this type of shit can really make you anxious and make you depressed and be like, oh, but I can’t. So and so I went to Paris and like, and you listen, you know, what’s so funny? I just thought of this. Did you? Did you? I read this article like either earlier this year or last year. There were people, white people, white people who were like setting up green screens with Mount Everest in the background and posting it on their Instagram, talking about, oh, I climbed Mount Everest. [laughter]  I swear to God, I swear to God. I was like, see, this is the shit I’m talking about.


MegScoop Thomas: What is the purpose? What is the purpose.


Dr. Imani Walker: What is the purpose? You grown. You grown like these people were like lawyers and shit. Lawyers, doctors talking about oh yeah I did it. 


MegScoop Thomas: It it’s greed. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I’m like it look– 


MegScoop Thomas: It’s just like–


Dr. Imani Walker:  –real warm on Everest. [laughing]


MegScoop Thomas: Right right. It’s just the greed of it all. It’s just like, man, be honest, be realistic. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: There’s just a free– because there’s a freedom with honesty. I believe–


Dr. Imani Walker: Exactly. 


MegScoop Thomas: –And that freedom is the freedom from the chains of social media and trying to compare yourself to somebody else. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Exactly. Yeah. I mean, just, you know, I know we live in a capitalist society and it’s all about, you know, me, me, me and this, that, and the third. But, like, you know, don’t, don’t, don’t play yourself. You’re going to riggidy wreck yourself. Like Ice Cube said. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Okay, so set a budget. 


MegScoop Thomas: For sure. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Set a budget. Why you think? Listen, I s– I see you. Ice Cube. He bought this dope ass house um on the Venice canals. I’m sure he did that by budgeting. There was a–


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Budget in there somewhere. So, you know, while Ice Cube out here trying to act like he, you know, shooting people and he all mad and doing all this other shit. Please. I guarantee you he is waking up to his you know, somebody just brought him an espresso. [laugh] He put on his little Ugg slippers and he’s like, oooh, let me let me check in with my account today. So, you know, just, you know, if you’re having like also if you’re having really big problems with all of this, like, you know, honestly. I’m not going to say shut off your phone, because that’s that’s kind of drastic um because we use our phones for a lot of things. But I really it became really eye opening for me once I discovered like how much time I was spending. Like there’s a little thing on my iPhone that’ll be like bitch you spent like an hour on on social media today so you a loser. And I was like, mm you know what? [laughter] You right, you right. Like, let me get– 


MegScoop Thomas: You right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Like, let me go play with my dog instead of looking at dog memes girl I almost adopted a dog yesterday talking about, oh, my God, look at this little dog and then my dog was looking at me–


MegScoop Thomas: Ah, ah! 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Like bitch I’m right here though. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right, right. I’m right here. Okay. All right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I was like, you right. I’m tripping. I’m right you tripping. I’m just trying to buy all the dogs and plants. So anyway, you guys, um we talked about a lot of different stuff, but the main thing is don’t be a sellout. Don’t don’t overextend yourself. If you want to– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Get plastic surgery, if you want to like do something to beautify yourself like do it, but don’t do it thinking that like, oh my God, once I look like Black China or Kim Kardashian or um um Ciara, I’m going to be perfect because you ain’t married to Russell Wilson. So. [laughing] You ain’t you ain’t gonna be married to Russell Wilson either, and you not– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yes. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –You don’t have a baby with Future and you really should be thankful for that. So anyway. Um.[laughter] Anyway, anyway, that’s all the time we have for our deep dive conversation today. 


MegScoop Thomas: That that was really a good discussion. So now let’s just move on to our favorite segment, Pop Culture Diagnosis. [music break]


Dr. Imani Walker: Okay, everybody, let’s get right into our pop culture diagnosis for this week. Meg, can you give listeners a quick synopsis of the movie, Don’t Worry, Darling, and who we are going to be diagnosing today? 


MegScoop Thomas: Yes. Now, this movie takes place in the 1950s-ish. Um. There’s a couple, Alice and Jack, and they live in this idealistic community called Victory. Now, Victory is an experimental company town that houses um the men who work there. They’ve got, like, a top secret project that they’re working on. So while all the husbands are away, they’re working. The wives get to enjoy like this beautiful, almost like Stepford wives type of society. There’s just a lot that goes on. Perfect. You know, hanging out, talking to the ladies, whatever. So. Um. But what happens is Al– Alice’s life starts to, like, I guess, start to break down. She starts to see things for things are not as what they seem. It’s just like things, well perfect but something’s not right here. And so a lot of things start to happen. And so today we’re going to diagnose Alice and talk about what she’s been going through in this movie. How’d you like this movie? 


Dr. Imani Walker: First of all, I loved this movie. Okay. 


MegScoop Thomas: Mm hmm. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Let me okay, let me let me just back up a little bit. Let me be clear. This movie, I really wasn’t that interested in it initially because I was like, because, okay, here’s what happened. The director of the movie is Olivia Wilde, this actress who I actually really like. Um. She’s a– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –She’s a decent actress. Um. And she was married to Jason Sudeikis from SNL. So I knew about like, I knew that she was making this movie. This was like a couple of years ago, you know, it was being developed or whatever. And I knew that she left Jason Sudeikis to start fucking with Harry Styles, and I was like, damn, bitch. I was like this bitch don’t give a fuck. Right. So I was like. I was like, damn it was a whole thing. And don’t really follow like gossip, so I didn’t really know what was going on. So now the movie comes out and they’re, you know, went to like different film festivals. Um. I’m not sure if they went to the Cannes Film Festival, but in any case, there was all this drama. Like, you know, the white gossip got to me because it was just so it was just so, like, out of control. Something about Harry Styles um spit on Chris Pine um when they was all sitting together, like at the Q&A. And then um the the actress who plays um uh Alice. Florence Pugh, she was like she she was basically like um um dissing Olivia Wilde. And there was some speculation that she was like, ugh, you left your husband to be with Harry Styles. That shit is fucked up. And you the director. And you directed him and well, she was just like, ugh I don’t respect you. I don’t know, like, honestly. So I watched the movie, legit because I was bored and also because I was like, let me make fun of this movie. But then the shit was good. This movie is good as hell. [laughter] I was like like– [banter] [indistinct]


MegScoop Thomas: Look at you, you trying to be messy? Look and look. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I was. I was like. I was like, ooh, let me watch this. Mmm. I was like let me watch these [?] I was like, these these people gonna act a whole God damn fool this shit is going to be terrible, but that shit was good as hell. And to the point where I actually rented it and I was like, I watched the shit again. I watched it twice in my 48 hours, alotted time period. 


MegScoop Thomas: Oh wow. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I was like this shit was good. Yeah, I was like this shit was good. I was like, okay. 


MegScoop Thomas: Okay. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I was like, Olivia Wilde, look let me tell you something girl, I was like, Olivia Wilde, um okay. I’m like, I’m I’m a fuck with you. So anyway, let’s get into the movie. Alice who also now because I watched the movie twice. 


MegScoop Thomas: Mm hmm. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Florence Pugh’s character. When I saw it for the second time, I realized that when they’re in Victory. Right, and the movie opens in Victory, this fictitious place that you um had um explained the cast or her husband, and I think also Olivia Wilde’s character, which is important sometimes they call her Alice and sometimes they call her Peg. Right. But when I first saw the movie, I wasn’t really tripping. I was just like, whatever, like, you know, I’m just trying to follow along. And also, I kind of wasn’t paying attention, but like, that was to my detriment. That’s why I watched it again. So anyway, Alice, who we’re diagnosing today. So long story short movie goes, goes, goes. I knew that Alice was going to be, like, afflicted with this paranoia that her Black neighbor had, because that was just kind of like it was obvious that was going to be the set up of the story. And I kept watching it. I, you know, I love Mad Men, even though Mad Men, you know, there was like racism and all kinds of shit on it. Not not crazy, but, like, a little bit. I still I still love Mad Men because I just love that era. And I liked watching this movie because I like the the fashions and the the architecture and– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –You know, all that kind of stuff. So anyway, Alice in the movie starts to get really suspicious because she’s like, I saw something. I know what I seen y’all up in here trying to tell me that I didn’t see it and you lying to my face like, stop it. So all these things start happening to her. Here’s the thing. We don’t need to diagnose Alice. Alice is fine. She’s sane. Okay. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Alice is getting gaslit the whole movie. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Why? Because Jack, her husband legit is like an incel. Like so at one point, the movie flips. You seen you you know about this part right, Meg? 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: The movie flips. And when I saw the movie the second time, there are these little flashes that happen, like throughout the movie. And I didn’t know what it was, but I was like, whatever well, I mean, whether it’s revealed to me or not, I guess, you know, they’ll let me know. Alice is having these flashes of her present life or her present life immediately before she essentially gets put under. So she so she has a she has a husband in real life, like in our reality named Jack, who’s also Jack, Harry Styles in Victory. Alice in real life is a doctor. She’s an ER doctor. It looks like an E.R. she’s a surgical, she’s a surgeon something. But Jack essentially doesn’t do anything. Like he–


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Doesn’t work. He doesn’t–


MegScoop Thomas: –pretty miserable life. 


Dr. Imani Walker: He’s yeah miserable. And she just like like she came home, he was like yeah I’m trying to do it. And she was like, I just worked like 36 hours. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right I’m tired. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I gotta be back home at six like get off, like get away from me. So long story short, the person who has the issue really is Jack. And Jack has Jack has a just awful, awful, terrible all the all the men I’ll put it to you like this all the men in this movie who have wives, have kidnapped their wives and installed them in a virtual reality playground. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. So Victory is– 


Dr. Imani Walker: It’s crazy. 


MegScoop Thomas: –a virtual reality world that these women have no idea that they’re in. They think that they’re– 


Dr. Imani Walker: That they’re in. 


MegScoop Thomas: –in this perfect little like Stepford Wives. They, you know, take care of their family and then these their husbands or these men have kidnapped them and put them there with them. And every day when these men go to work– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Quote unquote. 


MegScoop Thomas: –on their top their top secret mission, they’re really leaving the virtual reality to work for real in real life. To pay for virtual reality. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: That’s where they are leaving to go. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. It’s crazy. It is crazy because that’s why I was like, not that there were all like a whole bunch of, like, Black people in this movie. But I was like I was like, how I was like? How come these Black people are here? And it’s supposed to be like the fifties, like– 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: 50’s-ish and nobody’s tripping. Like, I was like, this is interesting. 


MegScoop Thomas: Oh there’s no discrimination? 


Dr. Imani Walker: Anyway. 


MegScoop Thomas: In here? Okay. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I know, right? I was like. Oh, wow, I’m like, so nobody has a maid or, you know, nobody’s like, you know, her own like– 


MegScoop Thomas: Only, there’s only sexism here. There’s no racism in this–. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: –Victory. Only sexism. 


Dr. Imani Walker: It’s crazy. So Alice doesn’t have pathology. Alice is completely sane. It’s Jack. And the men who essentially are like they they’re part of a cult. Chris Pine is leading this– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Cult. And he’s convinced these men that like, oh, well, you know, in the ni– I guess in the 1950s in this victory land, this is when men were men and women were women, which basically means the– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Women are docile and they clean the house and they shop and they drink all day long and um the men just leave and then come back to this, like, fictionalized life where like, I mean, legit. I was like, these people, they’ve got to be drunk, like, all day. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I was like, good God, it was worse than Mad Men. So anyway, these men are essentially like incels. And– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –They decide to just to they decide to make decisions for other people. And um I really I really liked it, it’s very dystopian. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Um. It, it reminded me a little bit of 1984, um it was a bit Orwellian at times, um especially because they always had this TV that was on. It was always–


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –Like broadcasting like, like some sort of like message or music. And the music was all old, it was, it was, it was a really I’ll put it to you like this when the movie was over, I was in by my in my room by myself and I was like, Olivia Wilde, bitch, you did it. [clapping] Okay? I was like, You did it. I was really ready to judge you and say this movie was gonna be stupid, but that shit was good and I’m a watch it again. So Don’t Worry, Darling. Really good. And I also was kind of mad because I rented it and then it came out on HBO Max like three days later for free. So I was kind of mad, but it was really good and it was it was worth my money at least. So you guys should watch it. Um. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yes. 


Dr. Imani Walker: You guys should watch it. I’m trying to think if Jack had like what did what would Jack have? He’s. I mean, aside from being, like, a complete asshole. 


MegScoop Thomas: Narcissist, stupidity- 


Dr. Imani Walker: Narcissist–


MegScoop Thomas: Basically. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –but also I’m like, yeah, I guess narcissism. I was trying to think I was like, is he like a socio– no he’s a he’s a he has narcissistic traits, kind of– 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: –but then like he got he got, like, really upset because at one point they took, like, Alice away and like, gave her, like, electroconvulsive therapy. Like, shock therapy, it was fucked up. But anyway, um Alice is fine. She’s fine. It’s the men in this world that are fucking crazy. So. Um. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right, right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Don’t worry– It was crazy. Don’t worry, darling was a great movie. Um. If you guys really want to see, like, a really good science fiction movie, um it was really good. [music break] That’s it. That’s it for pop culture diagnosis. We’re going to have another fun character to analyze next week. So if you guys have suggestions for fictional characters out there, you’d like for me to diagnose, hit me up on Twitter at doctor_Imani, hit Meg up on Instagram at @MegScoop and email the show at And again, if you’re enjoying the show, please don’t forget to rate and review the show on your favorite podcast apps. Thank you as always for listening to Imani State of Mind. Thank you to Meg for co-hosting. And we’ll be back for an all new episode next week. 


MegScoop Thomas: Bye. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Bye guys. [music break] This is a Crooked Media production. Our executive producer is Sandy Girard. Our producer is Lesley Martin. Music from Vasilis Fotopoulos. Edited by Evan Sutton. And special thanks to Brandon Williams, Gabi Leverette, Mellani Johnson and Matt DeGroot for promotional support.