Obi-Wan Kenobi Finale + Ms. Marvel Ep 3 | Crooked Media
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June 24, 2022
X-Ray Vision
Obi-Wan Kenobi Finale + Ms. Marvel Ep 3

In This Episode

On this episode of X-Ray Vision, Jason Concepcion and Rosie Knight visit the Lars’ moisture farm (AKA Casa Wet)! First in Previously On (2:05), Jason and Rosie pay tribute to comics artist Tim Sale, who tragically passed away on June 16th; then they discuss Kevin Feige’s recent comments about the future of the MCU and the early development of both a Wonder Man series for the MCU and a Jon Snow sequel series for HBO. In the Airlock (27:53), Jason and Rosie dive deep (deeeep) into the third episode of Ms. Marvel – recapping, providing lore background on the mysterious ClanDestine (see our Listener’s Guide below for more details), detailing the possibilities of the Artifact Era of the MCU, and theorizing on what might come next; then they dive deep (deeeeep) into the Dune Sea to recap and discuss the finale of Obi-Wan Kenobi (1:07:07) – giving final thoughts on the series, elaborating on the role of power in the Star Wars mythos, and discussing what they hope to see from Star Wars content in the future.


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Send a short pitch and 2-3 minute voice memo recording to that answers the following questions: 1) How did you get into/discover your ‘Nerd Out?’ (2) Why should we get into it too? (3) What’s coming soon in this world that we can look forward to or where can we find it?


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Listener’s Guide to X-Ray Vision


Batman: The Long Halloween (1996-97) – written by Jeph Loeb, illustrated by Sale.


Daredevil: Yellow (2001) – written by Jeph Loeb; illustrated by Sale.


Hulk: Gray (2003-2004) – written by Jeph Loeb; illustrated by Sale.


Plus Two More Sale comics we love:

Catwoman: When in Rome (2004) – with Jeph Loeb.


Superman For All Seasons (1998) – with Jeph Loeb.


Eric Diaz’s Wonder Man article for Nerdist.



Marvel Comics Presents #158 (1994) – written by Alan Davis, penciled by Davis, inked by Mark Farmer, colored by Sophie Heath, and lettered by Pat Prentice.


ClanDestine #1 (1994) – written by Alan Davis, penciled by Davis, inked by Mark Farmer, colored by Sophie Heath, and lettered by Pat Prentice.


If you want to learn more about ClanDestine without reading some questionable comics, check out Rosie’s Nerdist piece.


We Can Be Heroes (2020) – Written and directed by Robert Rodriguez; mastermind of such gems as Sharkboy and Lavagirl and the Spy Kids trilogy; on netflix.


This year Crooked Media’s Pride fund is supporting three incredible organizations that provide community building, gender affirming, and life saving resources to the queer and transgender community. Visit to learn more, donate, and take action.




Jason Concepcion: Warning. This podcast contains spoilers for episode six of Obi Wan Kenobi, the event finale of Obi Wan Kenobi, plus spoilers for episode three of Ms. Marvel. Be warned. If you haven’t watched those things, watch them and then come back to us. Yeah. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion and welcome to X-ray Vision, the Crooked podcast where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture. And today’s episode on Previously On, We will give a heartfelt tribute to the great Tim Sale, who passed recently. We will discuss some Kevin Feige comments, talk about Wonder Man, talk about John Snow, coming back in the Airlock. It’s time to dive into Ms. Marvel. Episode three In Obi-Wan Kenobi Episode six, a.k.a. The Finale, a.k.a. Big Duel episode. And if you want to jump around, of course, check out the timestamps in the show notes. I’ll give you all the details about the things we’re talking about and who’s we? Who are the people that we’re going to be talking about, the stuff. I’ll tell you who. It’s my great cohost, the greatest to ever do it. One of the most knowledgeable and wise comics people out there. It is the great Rosie Knight. Rosie, how are you?


Rosie Knight: Hey. Hey, I’m doing good. I’m happy to be how proud to be. I’m in I’m in Toronto. I was traveling all day, so I literally just made it in. And so I’m just appreciative of all you guys for for making time for that. And we’re going to be, you know, be living it out talking about all this.


Jason Concepcion: In the commonwealth. Does it feel like home? You’re in the Commonwealth now?


Rosie Knight: You know it does because I was like, I need to get some food to eat after we record. And the first place I found was like a Biryani House so actually really does feel like I’m in London. The guy really hooked me up too, so. Yeah, yeah, it kind of does. I like to go there. I’ve been there for a lot, of course, that visit. So it’s nice to be back.


Jason Concepcion: All right. Let’s jump in first with news and a sad story. Tim Sale, who was admitted to the hospital for issues regarding his kidneys, has passed away. He passed away on June 16th. In an heartfelt Instagram post, Jim Lee wrote, quote, Tim Sale was an amazing artist, draftsman and storyteller beyond the taut chiaroscuro style, which became his trademark. Tim clearly put a premium on storytelling, clarity and pacing, cherishing emotion. Above all, his stories were beautifully visceral, nuanced and evinced deep humanity. Tim simply had no use for surface banality, and it is a huge loss. Tim is probably most remembered for his relationship with Batman in numerous legendary stories, most notably probably the long Halloween, but also some great stuff with Marvel too. Daredevil Yellow is a favorite. Hulk Gray’s very good. Jeph Loeb in there. But, you know, what are you going to do? And. It’s it’s really sad. Tim Sale, I think. Had a style that I think you could accurately describe as timeless. It looks like it could have come from almost any era of comics or illustration history.


Rosie Knight: Absolutely. And I think that, you know, this is such a loss and Jim did such a beautiful kind of memorial of him. And I just I think if you look at especially like you mentioned, The Long Halloween, this is a book from the nineties that is still one of the most influential Batman stories of all time. Every time a new Batman project comes out, they’re looking back to The Long Halloween. That is Detective Batman. It’s a seminal to a lot of people as year one, and that is absolutely because of Tim’s art. It is just the most, it’s really it’s kind of wild to think that this year, you know alongside George, president of the DC icon, we lost two of the most iconic Batman artists with Tim Sale, Neal Adams. You know that that it’s it’s a it’s a really it’s a tough year if you love comics, but it’s a great time, as we always say, to go back and discover the amazing work that these creators did.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, Tim had a. When I discovered his art, he had it. He has a style that makes you want to try drawing because it looks I know what I mean. Because it because it looks so simple and doable. It’s very elegant. To Jim’s point, there is not an extra line or an extra bit of shading, anything like that. It is it is a very clean almost that the kind of illustration weight of something that you might find like in a newspaper comic strip that that kind of.


Rosie Knight: Cartooning, it’s brilliant cartooning.


Jason Concepcion: Brilliant cartooning, but at the highest level.


Rosie Knight: Yeah.


Jason Concepcion: And that’s the that’s the thing I think about when I think about Tim Sale. He made it made me want to try drawing something because it just looked you look at his stuff and you think, Oh, I think I could do that.


Rosie Knight: Yeah.


Jason Concepcion: And then you realize that you can’t, but it made you feel like you could.


Rosie Knight: The myth of simplicity is that that timelessness you are talking about, he makes it look easy. Everything looks effortless. It looks simple and slick. And when it’s detailed, it looks organic and you think, Oh, maybe I could do that. And then you’re like, No, I couldn’t. Like I’m really glad that Tim Sales doing it.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah. Rest in peace to Tim and best. Our best wishes to his family and loved ones.


Rosie Knight: Yeah.


Jason Concepcion: Kevin Feige has some comments about what’s coming next for the MCU. He’s quoted in Gamesradar as saying, quote, I think there have been many clues already there that are at least apparent to me of where this whole saga is going, at least apparent.


Rosie Knight: You should know Kevin.


Jason Concepcion: It should be assured to you.


Rosie Knight: Is you’re making these choices.


Jason Concepcion: You’re blessed to always, he continues. But we’ll be a little more direct about that in the coming months to set a plan so audiences who want to see the bigger picture can see a tiny, tiny, tiny bit more of this roadmap. And this is, I think, essentially what we’ve been saying, you know, going back to Eternals and certainly up through Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness and in the context of Feige, his recent comments about a brainstorming session that was coming up, creative brainstorming session that at least this slate of movies and and MCU shows is something of a holding pattern while they figure out their. Yes, they have Kang. But how that all ties together. There’s a lot of moving pieces to that. And of course, you know, huge movie crews and staffs, writers and actors and stuff and all that stuff has to be coordinated. So I think that’s coming together now. And it seems like just an acknowledgment that, you know, to just state quite humbly that we were right. Once again, Rosie, we were right.


Rosie Knight: I think we were right. You know, I think that this I think that we have been very eager about deciphering the seeds that have been sown. And I would say that to people like me and you, I would agree. I don’t think Kevin’s overreaching, even though he knows what’s going on. Yeah, I think there have been seeds that have been sowed, whether it’s Kang, because then we know that leads to the Fantastic Four that, you know, whether it was seeing that place that absolutely, you know, like Latveria in Moon Night, which leads to Doom, you know, whether it’s something we’ll talk about later with Ms. Marvel, but the introduction of all of these secret cultures.


Jason Concepcion: Yes.


Rosie Knight: You know, these these secret worlds that all have different fighting styles and magic and techniques. We’ve seen it in Shang Chee. You know, we’ve already got those established in Wakanda. We’re likely going to see a version of Atlantis, maybe in Black Panther two, which we’ve always said feels like it’s leading to a back to war world or secret war. So I think that the I think the hints are there. But I think this is really interesting because I want to know I want to know what the bigger picture is going to be like. Who do you think that they’re going to announce? I think the implication is like they’re going to announce their next big villain, which we kind of thought was Kang. But we have also been like maybe he would be more of an ally and an anti-hero. So who do you think it could be if they’re going to kind of drop a big, big reveal about who the next Thanos styled villain could be?


Jason Concepcion: Well, if if if the initial Marvel phase is one to three, or any kind of guide, then each step along the way, right, had their villain. So Loki was there to kind of get us to Thanos, right?


Rosie Knight: Yeah. I think it’s funny to think about.


Jason Concepcion: Similarly, Kang will be here to get us to whoever comes next. Now, if we’ve got all these multiverses now and different dimensions popping up in every Marvel property, I think at a certain point they’re going to want to shut that down.


Rosie Knight: Yes.


Jason Concepcion: And just say we’ve introduced all the things we need to introduce. Let’s cut it off and simplify things. And, you know, we’ve talked a lot about secret wars or incursions, this idea of multiverses collapsing into themselves. We’ve we’ve already had a mention of that in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness in the comics. After the incursions and after all these multiverses kind of squashed in together, there is a new reality that is created by the will of Dr. Doom with the help of Doctor Strange. That is a battle world, and that is the 2015 Secret Wars event in which, you know, all the Marvel heroes live in this, you know, world that has like all these different regions and kingdoms, some with zombies, some with all these Thor’s in it. And slowly, bit by bit, they begin to remember where they came from and they fight each other and then doom to return the world to the way it was. And there’s also, of course, the the original 1984 secret wars event, one of the great. And most iconic money grabs in comics history and.


Rosie Knight: The most toy-ectic.


Jason Concepcion: The most successful.


Rosie Knight: The most toy-ectic.


Jason Concepcion: You evil genius.


Rosie Knight: You skimp.


Jason Concepcion: You skimp, you, you, everyone. I have to give Jim Shooter this. Everybody was like, this sucks. It’s a money grab. Everyone he worked with was like, this is gonna be. They burned Jim Shooter in effigy at Marvel. And he was right. This Secret Wars was a huge event. Introduced us to a bunch of different paradigm shifting things. Spider-Man’s black suit came out of it, and the the bad guy of that was The Beyonder. So I do wonder if we get a Beyonder like incredibly powerful God like reality shifting figure who forces all our heroes into some kind of battle world to fight.


Rosie Knight: I think that the way we’re going, it looks like they’re probably taking from both the series, like you mentioned, the 84 and the 2015, the black suit. We know that the symbiote now exists in the MCU, Titania, who we’re going to see in She-Hulk. She came from secret wars, you know, and then we got the 2015 one. You know, perhaps we’re not going to see a, you know, a Doom who studied with Reed as the first introduction. Perhaps we’re going to see Godam for Doom. Yeah. And kind of speaking to what you were saying about the notion of the MCU basically introducing a bunch of stuff and then wanting to streamline it, which is what we kind of always thought. It was a way for them to introduce new characters and kind of build out the world without going too wild. That is what Secret Wars dead. Secret Wars was them attempting to streamline everything to the not officially called this at the time 616 which absolutely was 616, mostly Miles Morales wanting to bring that character from the ultimate universe into the main and the main Marvel Comics universe. So I think we’re going to see something like that. And I, I’m really excited because like, I love the notion that we could just see like a Beyonder reveal or a Galactus reveal or something like that, or we could all just get pranked again. Like when they had this, I remember like I think it was, I don’t think it was San Diego because I wasn’t there, but there was a convention and they had these four figures underneath a big sheet and they were like, This is like the most important reveal in Marvel history. And it was a big guy, a skinny guy. And we were like, Oh my God, it’s so Fantastic Four like, this is it. And it was the children are Thanos. I’ve never forgiven Kevin for that. So I’m like, I want to know, is this a real concrete? Is Kevin saying nobody’s guessed it? Right. Like, I want to know what we’re going to see next because it would be really nice to be surprised. But I think we’re on the right track.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, I think we’re on the right track, too. Up next, Wonder Man series is in development for the MCU. This from The Hollywood Reporter, Shang-Chi and Legend of the Ten Rings. Filmmaker Destin Daniel Cretton has teamed up with Andrew Guest, writer producer on comedies such as Brooklyn Nine-Nine and Community, Community, Family, very, very strong in the MCU, as we well know.


Rosie Knight: Yes.


Jason Concepcion: To tackle a live action MCU series featuring the long time Marvel character Wonder Man, a.k.a. Mr. Hollywood himself, Simon Williams. We’ve been waiting a while and talking for a while about Simon, about the appearance of Wonder Man. He’s got to come through at some point. I see a little romance, perhaps with Wanda, brewing will.


Rosie Knight: Seems like it could happen.


Jason Concepcion: It could happen. She’s alive, by the way.


Rosie Knight: I mean, she’s. Come on.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, yeah, yeah. She’s alive.


Rosie Knight: She’s just in the Eldritch Orchard light yet about her sins, how she’s going to make up for them or something, you know, in Krakoa.


Jason Concepcion: But this is very exciting because Wonder Man is has always been a favorite of mine. And I think, you know, back when I was first, back when I was always poring over the the official handbook to the Marvel Universe, I was like, okay, who’s the strongest? Who are the strongest guys? And Simon Williams, I think, is one of the most underrated hundred class strong.


Rosie Knight: Oh, yeah.


Jason Concepcion: Meaning can meaning has the highest measurable stats for strength in the in the Marvel Universe in that top tier of strength along with the Hulk, you know, not enraged Hulk, then Thor and others. And but has that really fun, kind of like slightly self-loathing. Like I was a Hollywood star and fallen on down on kind of a downturn in my career. And now I’m in a relationship with the Scarlet Witch. But it’s very complicated. Also, I’m very, very strong, and I’m still trying to get my acting career off the ground. But I guess I’ll give this Avengers thing a go for a while. He’s just a fun, just a fun character to have around. And tell us about. Tell us about Simon.


Rosie Knight: Well, yeah, Simon Williams, Wonder Man, I’m very interested by this decision because this is I don’t I don’t want to get lured into a false sense of security. Right. Again, because, like, I feel like when when they announced the WandaVision creative team and we have Matt Shakman who’s.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah.


Rosie Knight: Worked on It’s Always Sunny. Everyone was like, Oh yeah, it’s like and it’s like 40. So it’s going to be like a comedy, like a sitcom that did it. And we got absolutely pranked, right?


Jason Concepcion: Yeah.


Rosie Knight: But I do think that you you know, when you said Mr. Hollywood, like I Eric Diaz at Nerdist wrote this really, really great piece about how he thinks that that could be a great angle for where they’re going. Basically doing like Simon as a movie star. Yeah, Simon Williams premiered in Avengers Number nine, so that’s a super early first appearance. And that was Stan Lee,  Don Heck, Dick Ayeres yeah, and a lovely Jack Kirby cover. And interestingly, like then he died and then he became a villain. And I just think I think there’s so much there. I would love to see this be another situation like WandaVision, where we’re kind of taken by surprise and it’s something a little bit more a little bit matter. But I also do love the notion of the superhero who’s also an actor. That’s one of my favorite things that they ever did with Hercules. We know we’re going to see soon. So I kind of love the idea that maybe they do just go for a bit of a broader comedy and there’s some space that we get to see him and Wanda meet that’s kind of in that wandaVision-esque like fantastical space. And also I’m most interested to know, are they going to just like buff up Paul Bettany and get him to play? I mean, it would be like a really fun and silly thing to do. And also I wonder the other option that I wonder. This would be the darker version. And I think this does kind of fit in, right. So in the comics, Simon William gets his powers. I think he gets powers from, like, Baron Zemo at one point.


Jason Concepcion: Yes. The first time, I think.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, he has powers and I could see a world. You know, we’ve dealt in the world of power broker. We’re in this world of superheroes. I could see a kind of dark twist on that story that fits more into the The Dark Avengers or the Thunderbolts or whatever we think that they’re going to do. And Simon Williams beginning in that space and transitioning over, because we know.


Jason Concepcion: I like that.


Rosie Knight: And then you know what else? I suppose there’s a world where you could still build in the origin of the vision, having a brain imprint of Simon Williams brain, which is what we see in the comics, because that could be something they tried to do to Gray Vision. So I think there’s a lot of ways that you could tie that in. But I also like I kind of want to see that I also love this idea of like doing a kind of more like comedic fun, like Hollywood hero version.


Jason Concepcion: I wanted I do like that take only because I think that’s the one that’s most likely to deliver the iconic Simon Williams safari jacket to us.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, baby. I’m still waiting for the Doctor Strange leopard print gloves, you know, like it’s all about those weird old costumes.


Jason Concepcion: I wonder if. What about this? Now, listen, I’m not making producer, but this here’s my pitch. Mm hmm. Simon Williams and his brother Eric Williams, better known as the Grim Reaper in the comics. Simon has a very hate hate relationship with his super villain brother, the Grim Reaper. What if. Oh, they’re supervillains first. And he’s kind of working with Eric. But, you know, he’s the reluctant one. You know, Eric’s really the hardcore guy, and he’s kind of like, I don’t know. And then something, you know, they’re in crime. And Eric’s like, let’s get powers. And they some they talk to a powerbroker or Count Nefaria or Baron Zemo or whoever. Yeah, they get powers. Eric becomes a Grim Reaper. Simon becomes Wonder Man. And and maybe that’s how we start.


Rosie Knight: I think that is a really interesting take because also like in the. In the the more recent Vision Comics. I think it’s Thom King and Gabriel Walter. The Grim Reaper is a big inciting point for that storyline. And I just kind of it just kind of blew my mind. The idea that something that could really take everyone out of the blue that none of us would be expecting is just a Vision series where it’s Vision, Gray Vision, who is free, trying to live his life, who perhaps has created this family or something, and then comes up against Simon Williams and the Grim Reaper. You know, I think that is a really interesting take. And they’re definitely interested in this morally gray space.


Jason Concepcion: Right.


Rosie Knight: At the moment, whether it’s Wanda or any of these kind of, you know, a US agent abomination, you know, suddenly teaming up like that. So I’ll never get over that one. But like I would be, I’m very interested to see this feels like a character who has a lot of potential and could be a massive hit for them, kind of in the way Wanda was like Scarlet Witch had fans before the MCU, but now Scarlet Witch has like legions of obsessive fans. And Simon Williams seems like that could be another kind of lesser known character that you could blow up into, like a big MCU hit.


Jason Concepcion: Up next, Jon Snow series, a sequel to Game of Thrones in development at HBO. This, according to The Hollywood Reporter, quote, HBO has entered into early development on its first sequel to the blockbuster fantasy drama, a live action spin off series centered on the fan favorite character, Jon Snow. Now it continues. Kit Harington is attached to reprise the role should a series move forward. The actor. The actor was twice nominated for Emmy for his portrayal. Now, let’s let’s just quickly tap the brakes a little bit. And this also goes for Wonder Man series in development for MCU. In development, and specifically when they said when the said HBO was entered into early development, that means they have an idea. They don’t have a script, they don’t have an outline, they don’t even have a team. They just someone said, hey, if we find a good idea for a Jon Snow series, Kit Harington Would you be down to do it? And he was like, Yeah, sure. And that’s what this is now.


Rosie Knight: So when we.


Jason Concepcion: Don’t get excited, I’m just saying.


Rosie Knight: That would be nice.


Jason Concepcion: I’m just saying it’s very the language here lets you know that this is very, very, extremely, very cursory. Like there’s no, maybe an NDA or something, but no paperwork.


Rosie Knight: There’s only just a positive conversation that got some people excited.


Jason Concepcion: I think this makes a lot of sense and I think I’ve said it before. I think that if. If HBO had realized the importance of IP in the marketplace back when they were ending the series, they would have I think they would have done things differently. And I think.


Rosie Knight: Yes.


Jason Concepcion: The fact that they’re attempting to move forward with this or at least moving into a very, very early form of the production process with this, lets you know that. They think that, too. And I think this makes a lot of sense.


Rosie Knight: I agree. Yeah, I agree. I think that they they long to to return to the days of of Game of Thrones being like the show. And you know what? It’s a tried and true method to just get a character that people like to come back. You know


Jason Concepcion: Spoiler. People are people like it when they see their characters that they love come back in a new story that they also love.


Rosie Knight: We will be talking about a show like that just this week. But, you know, I mean, it’s it’s it’s kind of funny. I think you’re so onto something there that’s like and I know that’s been something you’ve talked about for a long time, but it still kind of blows my mind thinking about. How they missed that in the moment, the power of kind of what the IP was and the fanbase that it built and it’s yeah it’s interesting to see them you know a few years later trying to work out the best way to kind of helm that going forwards and recapture that kind of lightning in the bottle.


Jason Concepcion: Up next, Ms. Marvel and Obi-Wan Kenobi.


Jason Concepcion: [AD]


Jason Concepcion: Okay. We’re stepping out of the airlock to talk about episode three of Ms. Marvel and the season finale series finale season finale.


Rosie Knight: I believe they’re saying event finale.


Jason Concepcion: The event finale of Obi-Wan Kenobi. First up, Ms. Marvel episode three. Destined teleplay by Freddy Syborn and A.C. Bradley and Matthew Chauncy. Story by Freddy Syborn and directed by Mira Menen. We open in British occupied India 1942. Note This is just a year before Steve, our good friend Steve Rogers, would undergo the the legendary super soldier process. We see three figures who we are soon to learn are named Namia, Faria and Saleem. They’re digging through the rubble inside of some ancient temple, and they’re in search of the bangle. We know exactly what that is. Faria notes that it they find it and you notes that it’s still attached to the arm of a blue skinned corpse. Kree like confirmation.


Rosie Knight: So I think I think that Kree where it’s going to go. I think it’s important to note that we’ve seen Yondu as a centurion, blue skinned, to look kind of like him. And also, there are occasional versions of Djinn in Marvel Comics who are blue ish. But this looked like a Kree arm. I think we are meant to think it’s Kree. Absolutely.


Jason Concepcion: That is where I went. But we will. We will find out more. They began talking among themselves. You heard with the man from the temple said, says Namia. We would need two. Meaning two bangles. So in other words, we still don’t know where that other one is. Then a woman who we suppose is either Kamala’s grandmother or great grandmother, Aisha, strides over to see the gauntlet. She pries the bracelet off the corpse. We discover that the other one is they think has been looted by the British who have been in to this temple numerous times. Then one will have to do, the woman says, and they very calmly call her soldier. If you have the the the the closed captioning on. But again, we would surmise that this is either Sana or Aisha. But it’s Aisha. We figure that out soon enough the British army arrives and all of a sudden the strangers have to flee or fight their way out. Aisha puts on the bangle as the temple begins to crumble around them and the group separates in order to find our way out. And we go to the present.


Rosie Knight: Okay. And just before we skip to the present, because I didn’t notice this until the second time on the floor of the temple is the logo of none other than the ten rings.


Jason Concepcion: Bah bah bah bah bah bah.


Rosie Knight: Now, that is not going to be. We’re going to skip to the present and we’re essentially going to forget it. But let’s remember it because we are in the artifact era of the MCU, as we are calling it on X-ray Vision. And I, with.


Jason Concepcion: I love the artifact era.


Rosie Knight: I love the artifact era. I would assume that there is not it’s not a coincidence that there is a magical alien artifact in this space by the people who hold the magical, probably Eternals created artifact of the ten rings.


Jason Concepcion: God, I love the artifact. And by the way, we should add, you know, previous in in earlier phases of the MCU as we have talked about you know pre mutation there is you either got injected with something, there was some kind of lab experiment, or you were a god or alien. Right now we’re finding new ways there. We’ve we’ve we’ve got artifacts and we’ve got mutation.


Rosie Knight: And they give power or they unlock power. It’s very interesting. The artifact does not inherently empower anyone and unlock certain things within people. That is something that I think is really unique about the era, we’re in.


Jason Concepcion: I agree also that I got to say that all the talk of the way the bangle unlocks. They don’t say specifically DNA as such, but that’s the way I took it. Also reads very Kree.


Rosie Knight: Yes. That’s the kind of science that they love.


Jason Concepcion: That’s. They love that shit. We go to the present. Namia, flanked by her three compatriots, plus  Kamala schoolmate, Kamran now is telling Kamala this tale of the past, how they came to find the bangle and how Aisha came to be separated from them. That was the last time they saw Kamala’s great grandmother. Kamala asks how they knew her. Namia explains. Okay, sit down. Here we go. So we are all exiles from another dimension. That should have been the first red flag, by the way. You know what? You. Right. Except when. When you’ve done shit to such a degree that your entire dimension is, like, go to a different dimension.


Rosie Knight: Yeah.


Jason Concepcion: Like, we don’t even want to. We don’t even want to put you in another world offworld in this dimension. Want you out of this dimension completely.


Rosie Knight: Also, like everyone in the MCU, is really chill about, like, other dimensions. It’s like one of my favorite tropes.


Jason Concepcion: I feel like. Hold on


Rosie Knight: Everyone’s like oh yeah. Of course


Jason Concepcion: I love that. Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got it. I mean, to be fair, they did see, like, an entire chitauri army or out of the sky. You know, I.


Rosie Knight: Think it works well in the context of the show of like of what we know of the history. It’s just really fun to see. Like, people be like, Oh, yeah, we know about the multiverse. Like, another dimension, of course. I mean, of course you would think that when, like, Captain America exists in your world, and like you said, Chitauri and Thanos snapped away people.


Jason Concepcion: Kamala is pretty mind blown by all this. We we discover that the exiles are soon to be named. The ClanDestine are all very, very old, perhaps centuries old. Kamala learns as Adam, another exile walks in with.


Rosie Knight: An important name. Remember that name?


Jason Concepcion: Yeah. Remember that name with Bluetooth headphone on singing music. Namia mentions that Kamran said Kamala was cute, which Namia agrees with, and we get an awkward and very wonderful, heartwarming little teen moment between the two of them.


Rosie Knight: It was very cute.


Jason Concepcion: Later, Namia and Kamala have a private talk. We learn that Kamala donning the bangle is the thing that allowed these exiles to sense her presence, which they feel as newer, meaning light, newer as how the exiles remain young. They are hundreds, perhaps, perhaps even older than that, years old, centuries old. Kamala is worried about, okay, I’ve got this bangle now and with great power, you know, comes all the rest of that stuff. And I’m worried that putting this on is going to put everyone in danger. Namia’s like, don’t worry, you’re awesome. Like, everything is great.


Rosie Knight: You got this.


Jason Concepcion: Isn’t it great? You sound like we found you and you found your tribe. Now, this is awesome. Isn’t it great? Everything’s so, so, so, so good. And in fact, it feels almost too good to be true. And here you get that hint that yes, it is, because Kamala is like, so hold on a second. Do I forgive you? Do you want the bangle? Like, do I have to give it to you? And I mean, like, sort of just let’s table that conversation now. Just keep this in the back of your mind. Your great grandmother wanted all of us to go home. And now that’s your job. So we can work out the details later. But let’s think about it. And that is when Namia says, by the way, we’re called ClanDestines. You would know us as Djinn. You know which. Another word for that is genius, basically.


Rosie Knight: Like it comes from the same the same kind of folkloric history.


Jason Concepcion: Kamala goes to see Bruno. She tells him about the SAR Tech drones, about the Djinn, about her being potentially a Djinn, about how Kamran was involved. And he’s also probably a Djinn. And P.S. I need your help, Bruno, because there’s, like, interdimensional shit going on. And Bruno, I love Bruno because he, like, he takes this all in and then, like, waits a beat and then goes, Actually, I do think I can help with the draft.


Rosie Knight: He’s like, he’s like, oh, that’s, I think I read a paper on that and I’m like, Bruno, I love you.


Jason Concepcion: I love that. And she’s like, Yeah. Erik  Selvig, do you know him? well, we’re aware of Dr. Erik’s incredible groundbreaking work and almost getting Earth colonized by the Chitauri. He did do that. But then.


Rosie Knight: Again, like.


Jason Concepcion: Brilliant man. And so Bruno was like, Yeah, I can I can let me dig into Erik’s paper and I’m going to work on this. One more thing Bruno says, by the way. P.S. Forgot to mention this with all the Djinn talk and all the alien talk and intervention shit, you are trending and shows. Kamala the video from the Eid rescue. The Department of Damage Control rolls up to the neighborhood mosque. Oh, Agent Deaver, who sucks.


Rosie Knight: Sucks.


Jason Concepcion: Walks in flanked by other agents. And she wants to know about this unregistered, unknown, enhanced individual who has been operating the area, seen on the video that is currently going viral on social media. Deaver is  like and you know, it’d be great if I could just take a look around. Nakia Not yet board member but running. Running comes up and is like, you got a warrant? What’s up? I know my rights. I know our rights. Where’s youqr warrant? AwI love that whole interactionnd Deaver tries the the. You know, the traditional cop said, well, you know, it’s like if you don’t have anything to hide kind of thing, like, you know, blah, blah, blah. But she does leave. And on her way out, Sheikh Abdullah is like, don’t forget, next time, please take off your shoes, because that’s.


Rosie Knight: I love this interaction.


Jason Concepcion: That’s pretty much how it’s done here.


Rosie Knight: It was really good.


Jason Concepcion: But Kamala is in her bedroom and she cannot stop watching the video of her rescue. And I you know, I get it. I read it.


Rosie Knight: It’s so teenage it’s it’s so authentic.


Jason Concepcion: I remember when I played in jazz band in high school and we had our first concert and I had a solo and I watched that video like 400 fucking times. And that was not viral. No one else saw that it was on VHS. I watched it constantly and it was this was like, man that hit just watching Kamala constantly watching the video of her rescuing a young boy. Nakia comes in distraught. She’s like the the fuckin DODC came in the mosque. They’re asking about this hero that I’m calling that she has coined the Nightlight, which is actually kind of good. It’s cute. Yeah. And somehow Nakia does not recognize that her good friend is the spitting image of the hero and is and was not around when the rescue took place was not anywhere to be seen.


Rosie Knight: I guess it’s not like they there’s that psychological thing that they talk about where it’s like if you were riding the subway and you saw someone that you knew really, really well, even like a family member or a friend, but you they weren’t supposed to be there. Like you thought they were somewhere else.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah.


Rosie Knight: You might not recognize them. It’s like quite likely you wouldn’t. So I guess they’re playing on that. But also it’s just like a funny narrative device. It’s the thing. The thing that’s really hard is like Nakia’s is like understandably pissed because it’s putting the mosque in their community in danger and then Kamala’s like so sad because she was absolutely going to tell Nakia in that moment. And it’s just like it’s like those you want to, like, shake them both and just be like be honest, be honest, but it’s so it’s so well done.


Jason Concepcion: Also a very teenage thing, you know, it’s like with boys, it’s different because guys starting in their teenage years, when you start having like close guy friends and going on throughout your life, guys just don’t get this. Don’t say anything to each other. Like my girlfriend is.


Rosie Knight: Just sitting around in silence.


Jason Concepcion: I hung out with with a good friend of mine recently. He was going through a vicious breakup, so I was like, I’m going to go hang out with him and went out. And we just, you know, chill and hung out and, you know, watch TV, watch movies, etc.. And I came back and she’s like, okay, so what happened? And I’m like, We didn’t talk about it. She said, What is wrong with you? What is wrong with men?


Rosie Knight: He just needed some time with the bros. Just needed some chillin time.


Jason Concepcion: But I but I get it is what I’m saying. Like when you’re when you’re a teen, it’s hard to find the words for stuff.


Rosie Knight: I remember that feeling like so well. Or it’s like you really want to tell someone something that to you feels like it’s like the end of the world and you’re so wrapped up in it that honestly, they probably wouldn’t care. And we get a really good moment of that at the end of this scene.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah. So Kamala is a little freaked out because, oh my God, the government after her. So she’s a little too shaken to really take in that the information when Nakia says, hey, by the way, I won election to the mosque board, but then she warms to it and she’s like, Congratulations, this wonderful moment. At the Mehndi, the pre-wedding henna celebration, Kamala listens to her mother, Muneeba, talk about her grandmother, Sana, who, of course, is not around to attend Aamir’s wedding. And folks are gossiping about the superhero. Who is it sort of person from the community. Everybody probably agrees that it’s likely, you know, a brown Muslim girl, in the words of Sheikh Abdullah when he gives, is like, oh, by the way, Kamala, I’ve got this box that Bruno left for you, and Kamala goes outside to open it. Sheikh Abdullah follows her outside. He’s like, Why aren’t you? You’re you’re isolating yourself. Why are you not with your family? Why are you not with the rest of the party? And Kamala and he have a really wonderful. Hmm. Conversation in which he imparts quite a bit of wisdom. She’s like, Hey, what do you think of this new hero? Like, Are they good or they’re bad? What’s your read? How can this hero convince the neighborhood that she’s actually a hero, that she’s actually good. And she Sheik says good is not a thing you are, it’s a thing you do. Which I love.


Rosie Knight: Yes. And that is like a really big moment because that is essentially that is Kamala’s with great power line from the comics. And it’s done so well here. One of the things I absolutely love that you never really get to see on TV is like Kamala says to him, like, what do you think? And he’s like, What do you think? And I was like, Wow, this is like such a high functioning adult. Like, Oh, he’s just knows. He just needs to, like, find out where she’s at. And, yeah, that line is, like, so powerful.


Jason Concepcion: It’s really really good. In the box. Kamala finds that Bruno has made her a new and comics accurate mask. I don’t know how it stays on, but however.


Rosie Knight: I know magic is a.


Jason Concepcion: Fucking genius. Bruno is a fucking genius.


Rosie Knight: It’s some molecular shit. Like, who knows.


Jason Concepcion: Right? Unstable molecules, as they say. And I would assume also, like, I think maybe some other.


Rosie Knight: Beginnings of a costume. Because the way that this is going, I, I just feel like I don’t know how because obviously the notion of the alter ego is such a big part of superhero comics, though I do kind of love how in Kamala’s case, she gets to have friends in on it. I think that’s like really powerful and something we don’t get to see a lot because, like, that’s one of the biggest contradictions of superheroes is all the lies, you know? It’s a Peter Parker problem. Like everyone you love is in danger because you’re constantly just lying to them about, like, being a superhero. I feel like the way they’re going with this and how brilliant her mom is at making clothes and stuff, I feel like that we’re going to have to get a version of the costume. That’s at least.


Jason Concepcion: I love that.


Rosie Knight: Partially unintentionally designed by her mom. I don’t know. That would be really. I’m soppy nowadays. I’m an old lady. I find that moving so in.


Jason Concepcion: Their relationship.


Rosie Knight: I would love to see. It’s good.


Jason Concepcion: It’s so good. It is really. This is some of the best. Just dramatic family writing. Mm. Community writings that has happened thus far.


Rosie Knight: It’s such a joy to watch.


Jason Concepcion: At the corner store. Bruno’s at work, and while he’s at work, he’s also crunching Erik Selvig’s projections. And you see actually, like you see diagrams very similar to the ones that we have seen Erik pointing at that is it is unhinged diagrams what he which he is explaining with with only underwear on. Bruno is looking at that and he’s also researching the Djinn. And Yousef comes in, Kamala’s dad, and is like oh Bruno what are you working on? And then notices that he’s got all these papers in Urdu and he’s like, Oh, I can help you with this. So translate. He says, Oh, the Djinn are supernatural beings of pre-Islamic folklore. And he continues that there’s legends about hidden Djinn, exiled to our world forever, searching for a way home. And of course, the way home is the Bangle. We know now, according to Erik Selvig’s research, the same research again that allowed the Tesseract to open a portal to space. That started to pour in. Interdimensional travel is possible, we know that. But. Like Erik with the tesseract, you need a strong enough energy source to open that portal. And so Bruno says to Kamala, Yes, you can help the ClanDestine return. It is scientifically possible, but because of the power levels involved, like you could also, I don’t know, blow up the world like that could happen.


Rosie Knight: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.


Jason Concepcion: Kamala is mulling over all of this, her role in all of this, when Bruno also says and by the way, because I love you, I want to tell you that I’m good at Caltech, which is all the way across the country. And I just want to tell you that because I love you. And he also promises, listen, I’ll help you return the Djinn home, but, like, there’s just really no safe way to do it. Mm hmm. Now, let me continue researching. Later, Muneeba comes up to Kamala’s room and starts tending to some of Kamala’s scrapes and scratches? The stuff that the kind of small injuries that she incurred rescuing the boy. Kamala, in a very roundabout and again, very authentically teenage way, tries to ask about the thing that’s on her mind. By seeming to ask about other banal kind of family shit. And Muneeba frames her answer in the context of her own life as an immigrant in America knew a newcomer in America saying, You know, we came here, we didn’t know anyone. I didn’t know where to turn. And I found a community in the mosque that became the locus of our life. And she insists, listen, you might feel alone right now, but you have a community, you have you don’t have to face whatever it is you’re dealing with alone. And, of course, Kamala now has a little bit of courage to face the mission to return the Djinn, perhaps to their interdimensional home. But, of course, first we have to deal with Aamir and Tyesha’s wedding. When we go to the wedding, Yousef counsels Aamir that really touchingly ahead of the wedding again, like this is one of those .


Rosie Knight: Such good parenting.


Jason Concepcion: Wonderful parenting in this.


Rosie Knight: I love seeing a TV show. Like I feel like real life. It’s really hard because parents are just human. So like, yeah, it can be very cathartic to see terrible parents and be like, Yeah, but it can also be so wonderful to just see really loving, thoughtful parents this stuff with Muneeba this episode and Yousef as well but like especially Muneeba is is so well done and so heartbreaking and as an adult you just want to tell Kamala like, just tell them. Like you can tell them and you can tell from the way. Just tell them that they are behaving and the things they are saying and the honesty that they’re coming to her with, she could tell them. And it’s absolutely heartbreaking to watch that not be reciprocated. And you understand why? Because when you’re a teenager, something like you’re so worried about getting in trouble, you know, Kamala is terrified and of putting people in danger.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah. And plus, there’s this whole other layer of it where, you know, what did her what did her grandmother do? What a great grandmother do? The way that story is, talk about the history of the family.


Rosie Knight: Connecting the blacksheep of the family.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah. Is that going to make is she going to be a black sheep? So there’s all these different crosscurrents of emotion happening that are keeping Kamala from just telling the truth. And but yeah, you just want to shake her and be like, just tell them. What are they going to do? They’re just they’re fine. This this moment with Yusef in Aamir is sparked because Aamir is like, man, I’m broke. I got like $700, which, by the way, not bad.


Rosie Knight: Not bad at all.


Jason Concepcion: I got to say, there’s it was not that long ago that I would have gone, man I got 700.


Rosie Knight: Dude, me too.


Jason Concepcion: I’m good.


Rosie Knight: I’m always like, look, I’ve been I’ve been the kind of broke. When you say you’re broke, you literally don’t have a penny in your bank. So I’m like 700. I’m like, that is the start of a savings. You’re doing well.


Jason Concepcion: Absolutely. I know I’m in the kind of broke where it’s like, let me put this bill on a credit card.


Rosie Knight: Oh, yeah. I mean, dude in England, they don’t even let you get credit cards if you’re poor, which is a good thing in the long run.


Jason Concepcion: 100%. That is good.


Rosie Knight: Also not good in the moment. So, no, I fill you in. I kind of love this. I really appreciate the way that everybody who makes this show weaves in all these moments. You know, this is something that super producer, Saul talks, has talked about before, but it’s like the specificity. You begin with that specificity that feels so unique and niche to one situation. But by doing that, you explode out this huge universal experience. And this is one of those things, these two people having this conversation that feels so unique to that culture and is very much in the lead up to this wedding. And it but it hits every different version. You don’t have to have gotten married. You don’t need to be Muslim. You don’t even need to have a good relationship with your dad. There’s just something in that fear of here is somebody I love, here’s life I want to have. Can I do it? Like everyone relates to that.


Jason Concepcion: That’s exactly right. When storytelling is done well and and truly there, it doesn’t matter that you’re watching a story that takes place in a different cultural context than you were ready for. What you learn is that like a mother’s loves her children, fathers want to take care of their children. Kids are a little scared, but also very in love with their parents and don’t want to disappoint them. And all this shit is like very, very universal despite the different cultural context. And that’s what really comes through and a lot of the stuff in it the greatest of ways. Later on, Namia goes through Kamran’s phone, and she realizes that Kamala offered to help return them to the dimension and her son didn’t tell her. So she’s fuckin mad.


Rosie Knight: Love this for Kamran win him some points. Love this guy. Ten out of ten.


Jason Concepcion: They love it for him. Now, sure, it’s dangerous. And it could kill you, destroy the world, and it could kill literally a lot of people. Maybe everybody, maybe ever. But but Namia said, and I quote, We’re going to make her help us. I’m not asking anymore. Okay.


Rosie Knight: Starting to see the truth with  that old Namia.


Jason Concepcion: So later, after at the after party of the wedding, we get lots of dancing, wonderful dancing, big celebration. The newly married couple is involved. Get Bruno gets out there and dances a little bit. Karmala after various dances, Kamala asks Bruno to dance. And it’s a wonderful moment. Only Kamran chooses that moment to come up and be like, Hey! Big problem. So my mom saw your text and she’s coming here with the rest of the ClanDestine.


Rosie Knight: And I think she’s going to kill everyone.


Jason Concepcion: I think they’re going to kill everyone. To be 100% honest, I think they’re going to kill everybody.


Rosie Knight: Like I have to say.


Jason Concepcion: Which is like a crazy thing to like hear.


Rosie Knight: Absolutely terrible timing on Kamran’s part, but can’t blame him. He’s doing the best he can. It’s just so Bruno. No, but like he came there to save everyone’s lives. And also cock block


Jason Concepcion: Very, very sorry, Bruno, but I got to say, Kamran, like again, you’re absolutely right. Big points for him like this. A lot of this took guts to do this.


Rosie Knight: And I kind of. I love. I actually love. I love the kind of reflection of what we’re talking about, about like Kamala’s parents are so loving and accepting and. And then to to also show this other side of it where it’s the struggle that Kamran has of, like, loving his mom, but being very aware of, like, what she will do to get what she wants and pitting him against that to support his friend.


Jason Concepcion: I love my mom very much, an immigrant mother as well, child. But I think and I mean this in the greatest way, my mom was a little closer to the Namia side of the spectrum than to Muneeba side of the spectrum.


Rosie Knight: I absolutely agree. I concur our shared experience. I would relate to that. And I just think that I think Kamran’s like I think this is a really big sacrifice and it’s obviously going to be a it’s obviously going to be like a turn point moment in that friendship.


Jason Concepcion: So Kamala needs a distraction to get everybody out of here. So, again, the ClanDestines doesn’t kill everybody. She pulls the fire alarm, gets everybody out of there. Now, there are various weddings taking place at this banquet hall. So like later on, we will see a bunch of wedding parties in the lobby. There, there, there, you know, beautiful, perfect day, kind of ruined, but also their lives saved, even though they don’t know that. But it is very tough stuff to watch. Kamala ends up fighting with the ClanDestine first in the back hallways, in the kitchens of this banquet hall, to the tune of Muneeba and Yousef’s love ballad, Bon Jovi’s Living on a Prayer. Kamala alone. Like Without The Bangle, right? Oh, you absolutely have zero shot against these centuries old interdimensional warriors. But with the bangle, she is able to really, instinctively hold her own. Like we see moments where various ClanDestine are striking out against her, hitting her, kicking and punching or swinging various weapons at her end. Instinctively, somehow the the the newer the light is just armoring up that area that is being struck and it’s almost like.


Rosie Knight: Yeah she learns that there’s an armor and that’s a big thing.


Jason Concepcion: That’s a really, really huge part of this, the Bangles power and it’s really cool. Namia kills the lights and she says, Listen, Kamala, just like, open the doorway and we can we can end this. It doesn’t have to go any farther, any further than this. The battle spills out into the banquet hall. Bruno arrives to give help. But he is. No, he immediately gets like basically knocked out.


Rosie Knight: It’s very sweet. But yeah, it’s done.


Jason Concepcion: Kamala, then after seeing her friend, very specifically, friend. Get get attacked summons the embiggen hand and use it to molly wop the ClanDestines. It is a really cool moment. The embiggen. For those of for those out there that were worried oh we’re not going to see the hand the powers can be different. That was it.


Rosie Knight: That’s what they they’d hidden it. They teased it before with like catching people. But this was that big embiggen moment where and she just like you said, molly wop is the perfect word. She takes all three, four of them out. And I think something else that we see here, there was a group of people in that trailer. And for a long time we were theorizing, who’s that going to be? Is it damage control? Is it the protect, the other protectors of the universe who used to have the mega band? Is it people were like is an inhuman so they were walking through a mist you know. So I think it was quite clear as we see them walk through the door that it was. The as we now know them, the ClanDestines. But they are after the band. So we were a bit right. We were on the right. We knew it was an artifact. We just didn’t know they were going to go for a 1994 Alan Davis comic as the source material.


Jason Concepcion: I think that our, if we have to look at our shooting percentage on, on, on predictions, I would guess that we’re like, we’re like a decent to above average NBA three point shooter. We’re about 37,38%, maybe less than 40%. Right. We get a lot of things wrong, but we put shots up and we will continue to do it because it’s fun.


Rosie Knight: Also the shots are the fun part. That’s the thing. I’m we’re never going to be like 100% right.


Jason Concepcion: Ever, ever, ever.


Rosie Knight: Because I remember at least 50% of all of our theories that just like which we want to see, but it’s always based on the comics. But like I have to say, though, we have we’ve theorized a lot of weird stuff and we’ll get into this a little bit after because we’re about at the end of episode. But like. We have we have maybe never theorized anything as weird as the ClanDestine being against anybody in this show.


Jason Concepcion: Let’s talk about this in the conversation after the recap. But it’s definitely I was I was bowled over by the ClanDestine. Anyway, Kamran comes in and he has some real moves. Clearly, he has been trained by his mom and the rest.


Rosie Knight: He’s even got a weapon.


Jason Concepcion: He’s got a weapon.


Rosie Knight: A weapon.


Jason Concepcion: The ClanDestine corner, Kamala and Bruno, who has been knocked silly. He’s in concussion protocol. Namia grabs Kamala’s wrist and, you know, trying to grab the bangle off of her. And this triggers a the. It’s not a vision, but some sort, like a portal opening suddenly. And out of this portal is barreling an old time like steam train. Yeah. And all. And that, that is there. And then all of a sudden it disappears, then damage control shows up and they are firing stun blasts. They are taking the ClanDestine out and the ClanDestine and Kamran are going into custody. Kamala and Bruno escape outside. Nakia learns that. Oh, my God, my friend Kamala is the superhero. Why don’t you fucking tell me what the fuck? Later at home, Muneeba and Yousef ask Kamala what the fuck is going on? Like, did you pull? One, did you pull the fire alarm? And two, what was that fight? And the people that got arrested and she’s like, I’m not going to tell you. I’m going to bet. Now, let me pause here. This is where. I thought. Man, if this was me and this was my mom, who again is more on the Namia spectrum, I would have been getting like shoes thrown at me.


Rosie Knight: Oh, yeah, I wouldn’t I would not have made it into the house, like. Absolutely not.


Jason Concepcion: Did you pull the fire alarm during your brother’s wedding and now you won’t talk about it? That’s your. Oh, you’re going to talk about it.


Rosie Knight: Incorrect.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah Incorrect. You will discuss it.


Rosie Knight: Right.  You are mistaken.


Jason Concepcion: You will discuss it. Kamala goes up to her bedroom and she’s just lying there thinking about everything that’s happened. She’s at her lowest point that we’ve seen her yet. But then Nona randomly facetimes in and is like, Hey, you got to you and your mom, you got to come to Karachi. You come back, come back home.


Rosie Knight: I was like, What?


Jason Concepcion: What? And she’s like, Did you see it? She’s like, Wait, what? The train did you see the train? Which lets you know that we are going to Karachi, folks? We are probably going to Karachi now. Is. Is Aisha on the train and does she have the other bangle?


Rosie Knight: I don’t know. I think the train. So we know that that is when. When the when Noni went missing and then followed the trail of stars. So I definitely think the bangle is something to do with it or somebody who had worn the bangle before had come to that. There’s something about the train that is really important to the story of who this is and the fact that Noni saying that Muneeba needs to go too, proves what we know, which is this is obviously something that at some point Muneeba has been told about and didn’t want to know about it and didn’t want to believe it and thought it was fantastical and perhaps like worrying rather than something real. I’m very excited to see them go together and hopefully maybe see many by accept like this part of her family history that she hasn’t been able to in kind of and not if not embrace at least acknowledge that it’s now part of Kamala’s life.


Jason Concepcion: Well, I mean, the other part of that, too, is, I mean, if. I’m going to. Here’s his patented X-ray vision 40% prediction. I wonder if Muneeba puts on the puts on one of the Bangles. She’s got it, too, right?


Rosie Knight: Love? Oh, definitely. They all have. It’s obviously a lineage.


Jason Concepcion: So I would not be shocked to see her as that healing step, you know, of of coming to terms with her family history that she’s been kind of ashamed of and of putting on the bangle and becoming a hero, helping her daughter.


Rosie Knight: Especially if it was in a moment of danger.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah.


Rosie Knight: You know, the Bangle might even be called to her. Also, we can we can probably assume that we know that an actor was cast as Red Dagger who is like another teen superhero from Ms. Marvel. And if they’re going to Karachi, we can probably assume they’re going to meet him there.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, that makes sense.


Rosie Knight: So and I’m interested in the comics. Bruno goes to Wakanda to study and he comes back with a Wakandan friend. I wonder if they’re going to replace that with Caltech, because to do that in a, you know, a six episode series, not so much. And then you get it’s going to be the love quadruple between, you know, Kamran. Yeah. And now that we know they’re not related. Bruno and. And Red Dagger. Potentially, too. So who knows? It’s going to be it’s going to be exciting times for Kamala Khan. I’m very happy for her.


Jason Concepcion: Okay. Let’s talk about the reveal that Namia and these shadowy figures that we saw in the Ms. Marvel trailer have now been revealed to be the ClanDestines. I always say ClanDestine instead of ClanDestines which is listen. Everything that’s not like Dr. Doom, Magneto, Kang, etc. is going to be kind of a deep cut at this point. But but this is a wild, deep cut. Rosie, tell us about the ClanDestines.


Rosie Knight: Okay. So the the ClanDestine, which was first introduced, it was like teased in a 1994 Marvel Comics presents 158, the teams created by Alan Davis and the.


Jason Concepcion: Great the great Alan Davis.


Rosie Knight: The great Alan Davis. And then they had their own, they went into their own series immediately called the ClanDestine in that is literally a clan, the patriarch of whom is called Adam Destine, which is why that character Adam was likely a nod there, though he didn’t necessarily seem like the leader of the crew. I think we can say that’s not.


Jason Concepcion: Absolutely, absolutely did not seem like the leader of the crew.


Rosie Knight: So this is really interesting. There’s actually a lot of I was rereading the original 1994 run before this, and there’s actually a lot of that kind of Wonder Man stuff. Like we see versions of the heroes in the now where that kind of suit that superheroes but they’re also celebrities and stuff. But the the basic thing that you need to know about them is being drawn on here is that in the comics, the ClanDestine is a secret, immortal family of superpowered beings who are descended from Djinn. Now, in one in a rare misstep, I will say for Alan Davis, who I find generally be quite wonderful creator. The issue where that is introduced is pretty problematic with its representations that it goes to the Crusades and the representations of people of color are not great and it’s not necessarily like a respectful take on Djinn lore, but. I think, as is the Marvel Studios way at the moment, they’re recontextualizing something to put it into, like a more interesting and relevant and authentic cultural space. And this speaks to another trend. We’re in the artifact era, which we love. But we are definitely seeing a lot more stories about people’s lineage. We saw in Shang-Chi it was really Black Panther was the first one with the ancestral plane, you know. And so I think.


Jason Concepcion: The inclusion of Dane Whitman in the Eternals, I think, is an example of this.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, yeah. And definitely this is very Excalibur ish. Yeah. So I think Dane Whitman is a great core. And this idea of lineage and legacy and this definitely fits into that because what they’ve essentially done and I think we can assume we can probably safely say that in the first episode when we saw Kamala use the Bangle for the first time and fall back into that world, we can assume that’s the Noor dimension, which is the dimension of Djinn probably and sort of similar to the to the ancestral plane for Kamala. So I think it’s really interesting. Recontextualization is also not it’s not unheard of, though. They were introduced as heroes. There’s been times when they’re antagonists and like some people, I think at some point they they’ve been called supervillains. So it’s not wild to kind of recontextualize it, but it’s very interesting to see it, especially because as we talked about a lot in the comics, Ms.. Marvel gets her powers through Terrigenesis when a Terrigen bomb goes off and lots of people get powers. Because, you know, that’s how inhumans are made and the inhumans are a secret superpower, immortal royal lineage, that they live in the moon, which I always think is really cool. I’ll just always remind everyone of that. But it’s kind of hilarious to me that. The creative team had the heads of Marvel studio, they managed to dig into the Marvel archives and find another immortal secret family with, like, a magical lineage. I’m like, well done. It’s not, you know, anything to not be an inhuman. So, yeah, I’m very interested to see how deep this will go and whether this is a bit more of a Hawk-Eye situation where we were seeing a lot of obviously it’s already a lot deeper than the Hawkeye name drops because most of those were just literal name drops. But I do wonder if the history of the ClanDestine or the more intricate kind of centuries old will get an exploration like the ten rings? Or if this is more of just it’s important because it’s Kamala’s origin.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah.


Rosie Knight: And outside of the show, we won’t necessarily find out more. But it sets her up with powers that are far more in line with Monica and Carol, who we know she’ll be fighting alongside. And I think that’s really exciting.


Jason Concepcion: Well, I can’t wait to see where this goes. Okay. Obi-Wan Kenobi, Part six Story by Stewart Beatty and Joby Harold and Andrew Stanton, Teleplay by Joby Harold, Andrew Stanton and Hossein Amini. We open on Tatooine where Reva is on her feet, folks, she’s banged up.


Rosie Knight: She’s doing great.


She’s banged up. But listen, this is a Game seven situation and she’s a gamer. She’s got to get it done and she’s going to grit it out. Despite having a light saber shoved through her guts, she’s been led to Tatooine and of course by the voice message on Obi-Wan’s phone. And she’s looking for Owen Lars. Where’s he at? I’m going to I’m going to interrogate everybody here until I figure out where Owen Lars is at. Meanwhile, our baby rebels are fleeing Jabiim for testing on Roman’s cruiser. Vader’s flagship is in hot pursuit and onboard. Obi-Wan knows we ain’t going to make it, folks. The ship is taking hits.


Rosie Knight: The inspirational speaker is back.


Jason Concepcion: We are not going to make it. Back on Tatooine where the sand is hot, but the jawas are too young Luke Skywalker is in town with Uncle Owen. Precocious young man already, a citizen, though, who has witnessed Reva’s tirade in town comes up to Owen is like, Listen, you’re in trouble. You’ve got to get out of here. They’re looking for you. Inquisitors here, they’re looking for you. Back on the ship Ben informs Leia that, Listen, I got to go. Darth wants me. That’s the thing. Darth wants me. And if I leave the ship and go off somewhere to fight him and I’ll draw him off. And I promise you, the. The Empire will stop pursuing this ship of of families that are terrified, and they’ll follow me and I can draw them off.


Rosie Knight: Will they though? They are looking for force sensitive people. So I feel like this is not the most logical point. But I like I  like the intention.


Jason Concepcion: I like the intention. And I think it’s a strong bet. Like, clearly he’s overselling it, but I think it’s a good bit. Yeah.


Rosie Knight: We talking. Anakin is obsessed with Obi-Wan. We know that. So if he’s in charge of where they go for now, they will be safe, right?


Jason Concepcion: Even Haja is like, Ben don’t do this. But it ultimately turns out to be the right move.  Back at the Lars moisture farm, which I have, which I have named Casa Wet. Lars tells Beru that we got to hide. The Inquisitors are coming. We got to get out of here. We’re going to go to, I don’t know, somewhere. The dude sees, there’s got to be a cave somewhere and Beru is like, shut the fuck up. Put your big boy boots on and gun up. Let me get these guns out of the hole and we’re going to fight it out here. And let me just stop and say, why are we even hiding the guns?


Rosie Knight: I know.


Jason Concepcion: Right? It’s not fine. There’s no law and order.


Rosie Knight: Maybe keeping him from the kid maybe.


Jason Concepcion: Oh, that’s. Yeah, but in a, in a hole.


Rosie Knight: In a hole.


Jason Concepcion: That’s at like kid level?


Rosie Knight: Maybe she was hiding from Owen because, I mean, Owen looks at them like he’s never seen a gun in his life and Beru is like, here, pick your favorite. This is mine.


Jason Concepcion: Get a back bow. Jesus Christ, tighten your belt.


Rosie Knight: Then she was coming out shooting and like she just she that I actually have to say that was like a it really made the inevitable spoiler deaths in the future in the future/past more heartbreaking because it’s not just like, oh, that he was randomly there. It’s like they cared so much about him and they they like fought. Though now I’ve seen how fought.


Jason Concepcion: They’re fighters. Yeah.


Rosie Knight: Now I see how Beru is. I’m like, I don’t think they would have ever got her, that’s a different body and absolute and they never go. Yeah.


Jason Concepcion: Whatever happened back at Casa Wet in A New Hope, I will guarantee you now after seeing this, that Beru is the kind of blaster like, you know, in her belt. Like, okay, Leia and Ben back on the ship, they have a heartfelt a moment parting here with tears welling in Ben’s eyes. He promises, Listen, I’m going to return. Don’t worry about it. That’s a long shot. Let’s be clear about that. But he does promise it. Then Ben has a private moment to himself where he tries once again to get through to Qui-Gon, Master Qui-Gon through the forced cell phone. He says, I have to face a master whether he dies or I do. This ends today. Now stop here. Let’s just put a pin in that statement whether he dies or I do. This ends today. I love the sentiment, but I think the accuracy is a little bit off. But


Rosie Knight: Can you deliver Obi Wan that question, can you deliver?


Jason Concepcion: We will talk about that in all good time. Qui-Gon, of course, does not appear so Obi has to do this alone. Roken waylays Obi is, Obi is trying to leave. He’s like c’mon stay with us. Let’s try and fight it out. But Obi’s like, no, I can’t. But you Roken listen you’re fighting whatever it is that you have started here, keep fighting because this right here, this is the start of something. We don’t know what it is, but it’s the start of some. It’s the rebellion. Yeah.


Rosie Knight: I want to see it. I want to see that. I want to see the Roken and impess-ness like show. Like I want to see that. That’s that. Please give me the early days of the Rebellion show. I would love to see it.


Jason Concepcion: As expected, Vader does peel off to follow Ben despite.


Rosie Knight: Predictable.


Jason Concepcion: A little bit of persnickety-ness from the Grand Inquisitor who’s like, but we’re supposed to be following the ship. Surely we cannot risk the mission to follow one man, can we? And Darth Vader is like, Who the fuck are you? Yes. Yes, you.


Rosie Knight: Of any of the time.


Jason Concepcion: Excuse me, do I know you? Do I know you? What.  Do think that you have some kind of pull here? Yes, we are fucking following Obi-Wan Kenobi. And then they they steer off. If you watch The Grand Inquisitor, it’s like the back of kind of like slightly. It’s a two shot with Vader, the Grand Inquisitor and he gives this like a sticky, juts his bottom lip out like Okay. But he’s clearly not going to say anything. He’s fucking forced choked back at Casa Wet, on Tatooine, Lars and Beru are like, Luke, here’s what’s up, stay here. But if shit goes sideways, then run. But don’t run now, run later. Only if we lose. Luke is very courageous, of course, but absolutely. Too young. And let’s face it. He’s a ten year old boy, meaning not that he’s not the sharpest out there.


Rosie Knight: And his horse. Leia would be like, are you mad? Give me a gun. Leia would be grabbing one of Beru’s guns.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah. Put me in the vent and let me fix something.


Rosie Knight: She’s like, give me a ladder. And Luke’s like, I’ll just hide.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, absolutely.


Rosie Knight: That should leave us a smarter choice.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah You know, like. And this that rings true because ten year old boys versus ten year old girls, that girls are going to be smarter all of the time. Luke is not.


Rosie Knight: Luje’s like, I’m just going to have a nap.


Jason Concepcion: Not about it right now. And just then, the perimeter alarms go off and that means Reva’s here. Back with Ben. He lands on some desolate planet. Vader follows lands in his ship, and we get a big old light saber fight that is awesome and great. Master and former student are at the tops of their games. Ben’s reconnection with the force, his recommitment to his Jedi training is evident. And Darth is, I think. As fast as we’ve ever seen live action.


Rosie Knight: Fast is the word for sure. We’ve never seen him like that in live action.


Jason Concepcion: Never seen him. He’s still brutal. We saw him in Rogue One be very brutal, but he was still kind of like extremely powerful. And I don’t want to say lumbering but, but he’s.


Rosie Knight: Always Frankenstein in the classic. He had that Frankenstein elements. He’d been chopped up. But now we know, light saber is actually that much of a damage. So you can just be speeding around.


Jason Concepcion: He is liquid fast here and it is a thing to behold. Back on Tatooine a big ole shootout has popped off. Reva is holding her own despite the gut wound, as we mentioned. But here I have to say again, inquisitors, spin tech. We talked about it previously. What is it good for?


Rosie Knight: Looks cool doesn’t do nothing.


Jason Concepcion: Looks cool. Doesn’t do nothing. It does one thing kind of. Well, which is. It perrys blaster bolts where you don’t actually have to like, you know, maneuver your lightsaber to the blaster shot. You just have to point the spin in it. Put that in between you and the the person shooting blasters at you and you can just like Perry everything and absolutely maddeningly fucking Reva does not break out the spin tech. I don’t know why she’s getting shot at and does not break out the spin tech.


Rosie Knight: You know what, I think Saul’s right actually I didn’t realize eight Vader snapped it in half.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, but wouldn’t it still work if you have the one side and you have the handle, it hsould work.


Rosie Knight: At least it should spin, right? Yeah.


Jason Concepcion: It should still spin because the Grand Inquisitor in Rebels still spins it with just that.


Rosie Knight: That’s true. You know what?


Jason Concepcion: Just the handle.


Rosie Knight: This is the real truth. We’ll get to this. This is a this is one of the the many fun to pick apart, like moments of.


Jason Concepcion: We love to do it.


Rosie Knight: It’s like it’s like, how can you continue the B-movie sci fi fun of Star Wars and have the narrative tropes and and loopholes that are often used to allow things to happen? How do they still work in a prestige space? I think the answer is what they showed proven is like for some people it’s fine. And for other people they’re like, What is going on? We just like it that we’re just like, just use the spin tech. It looks cool, man.


Jason Concepcion: Reva use the fucking spin tech. That’s what it’s for. Back on this anonymous battle planet of pointy rocks. The fight continues. And it is it is crazy.


Rosie Knight: It’s drama.


Jason Concepcion: It’s easily among the best lightsaber duels we’ve seen.


Rosie Knight: And they are one of the longest. They are sabering.


Jason Concepcion: I mean it’s like a third of the episode.


Rosie Knight: They’re just fighting.


Jason Concepcion: Vader is talking shit. We know that Ben’s reconnection with the force is nearly complete because he tries to drop a boulder on Darth Vader. Vader says your strength is returned, but the weakness remains. Big Bird, Darth Vader. Vader Then force splits the ground, which is a trauma, the touch that touches the ground. Use the force to to create a huge crack in the earth which swallows up Ben into a huge crater. He falls down like 15 feet down into this huge crater. And then Darth is like, You’re done, buddy. I’m about to fucking bury you. And then you just hurl tons and tons and tons of rocks on top of Ben Kenobi, talks his shit and then walks away. Now, listen, I personally think Darth Vader, you got to finish what you start. You got to make sure. This is Ben Kenobi. You didn’t come all this fucking way, fight with your entire inquisitor corps, stab one of your inquisitors and fucking get dirty looks from the Grand Inquisitor to come. Just come all the way here and not check if Ben is dead. But I get it. There’s a lot of rocks down there, and he walks away. Okay, fine.


Rosie Knight: Ben and Anikan , yeah. They both have this problem. Now is the problem truly born of the fact that they both have to survive for the original trilogy? Maybe that is.


Jason Concepcion: That is part of it.


Rosie Knight: But it is hard to watch them both consistently, just not killing each other. At least I think you could at least like I think something like we will get to it with what happens in a minute. But like this is definitely one of those ones where it’s like in my shipping head canon, I’m like, they can’t kill each other because they love each other. But also I’m like, But you’re both dumb.


Jason Concepcion: I think that works. You’re right for Darth. That works for me, right? Guys, what do we know about Darth? Right from the comics, from the movies, everything else. He’s, you know, he’s when he meditates, he’s in this world of of red sith fire and pain with those little blue force light butterflies flying around him. And I think that this is, I buy this is a manifestation of that little pinprick prick of light inside.


Rosie Knight: Yeah. He can’t do it.


Jason Concepcion: He can’t do it. He’s done everything that should kill Obi-Wan. But when it comes to, like, actually cutting off his fucking head with a lightsaber, you just can’t do it right now.


Rosie Knight: I also think that’s really do it now because like he can, he can commit like faceless genocide. But when it actually comes to like standing down one person who has harmed him, he’s terrible at that. He can’t do it. Those personal emotional conflict is too real.


Jason Concepcion: He can’t do it right now. Back on Tatooine, Reva knocks out Lars, knocks out Beru and flushes Luke from his hiding place. And Sky Guy Junior goes off running into the night desert. Back on Battle Planet fragments of memories, snippets of conversations running through Ben’s mind. He ultimately focuses on a picture of Leia and his responsibilities towards her and towards Luke, and he finds the strength to free himself. Boom, the fucking rocks go flying. Amazing. He easily catches up to Darth Vader, who was not in any kind of rush to get back.


Rosie Knight: He was strolling. Casual stroll.


Jason Concepcion: Just a casual walk back to the show. You’d think he’d be like, Okay, job done. Let me hightail it back to the shuttle so maybe we can catch Roken in the rest. Like, maybe there’s a shot we get him. But he’s just like, like just casually walking back, like, oh, that was. Let me take in the air. That was wonderful. But then he feels Ben behind him and he turns and then the fight is back. The fight is on. And it is Ben now who is getting the best of Vader. He in an amazing display of strength, force strength. He, like force throws Darth back into a boulder and then raises his hands and throws every rock in the neighborhood at Darth Vader. So many huge like rocks the size of, like, Honda Accords are flying.


Rosie Knight: Boulders and rocks. You know, he’s he’s really showing off.


Jason Concepcion: The legit huge fucking rocks. And Darth is taking many of these on his bionic arm. So he’s able to kind of fight through. And the duel, he fights through the rocks and then a duel continues. Boom. We go back to Tatooine where Reva catches up with Luke in the ravine. Young Skywalker falls unconscious. This gives Reva a free shot at Luke. And here it is, the moment she’s been waiting for. This is it. She’s been. Yes. She wanted to get Leia as a way to get Obi-Wan, as a way to get closer to Darth Vader, as a way to kill him. But this is good enough. This is pretty good. And here it is. But she can’t she can’t do it. Of course she can’t do it. She images of Order 66 and Anakin Skywalker in that night of fear and pain and her own fear seeing herself now is as the image of murder which has so impacted her mind. And she just can’t do it. Back on the battle planet, Ben is now beating the fucking brakes off Darth Vader. Who it must be said, I love my guy. Listen, I don’t love him, but I’m intimidated and respectfully appreciative of how bad ass Darth Vader is. He kind of gets his ass kicked a lot and here he is getting is absolutely butt kicked. Obi-Wan is smashing the fucking chest buttons on his armor. Now all of a sudden the ragged breathing is there and then he boom, slices down on the helmet. The helmet is cut open and you could see that purple potato head in that horrific gaze through the helmet. And you can’t help but think if you’ve seen it of the moment in Rebels when Asoka does something very similar. Years later, of course. And. Ben is horrified at this vision of what his friend has become, his friend and brother. Anakin’s gone, Darth says, I am what remains now. Ben’s eyes fill with tears. He is, of course, weighed down by guilt and shame in the ways that he has failed his friend and brother. Now, look what stands before him, and he apologizes. But Darth is like, no,don’t no. Don’t apologize because you didn’t do this. I am the person who killed Anakin Skywalker. Me. Darth Vader. I killed him off. Now, of course, much later in A New Hope, this is exactly what Ben will say to Darth’s son, Luke. He will say, Darth Vader killed your father. And this is very smart and very powerful and a really great way to underline what is one of the early like. Hey, wait a minute moments in Star Wars where you know, where you might.


Rosie Knight: Obi Wan Kenobi. What are you doing?


Jason Concepcion: Where you find out that okay, Ben knew that Darth was Luke’s father, but then said that. So this is one of those. This is a great way to kind of.


Rosie Knight: Get to see context moments. That building in really nice.


Jason Concepcion: Like they really hit for me. So Ben has beat the shit out of Darth Vader his he’s got like cuts on his back. His back is like smoking. His helmet is all smashed up. He’s fucking got an asthma attack right now because his breathing apparatus is smashed. And Ben looks at this person who is at this point easily a mass murderer, having done numerous horrible things at the head of the Inquistorius cadre. He’s done he’s done a lot, a lot a lot of bad shit in service of the emperor. And Ben looks at him and is like, okay, I’m going to see you. Bye.  I’m going to leave bye. I’m leaving.


Rosie Knight: See you later, man. My friend’s gone and I’m like, Your friend’s gone. That means you can kill him, you don’t need to keep him alive?


Jason Concepcion: But I got to say, I get it. I do get it. At the same time, man, Ben is lucky that nobody ever found out about this shit. You know what I mean? Like. And this is. This brings me back to the thing we were talking about last week with forgiveness. And how do you. How do you talk about characters who are given a redemption, who are redeemed in the story that also kill millions, if not billions of of of people? Imagine yourself as a rank and file soldier in the rebel alliance. Right. You. Your family has been oppressed and perhaps murdered by the Imperials, by Darth Vader, by the Imperial Forces, by Emperor Palpatine. And you want nothing more than to avenge them and free the galaxy. And then you find out that the Jedi been doing Jedi shit again. It’s like that. You find out that. The Jedi’s while a terrible war crime has been committed against them. There are leading figures, Ben Kenobi, who survived Order 66 and Luke even let mass murdering Sith War criminals kind of walk away. They let it happen.


Rosie Knight: It’s because of this family drama. Like this is the problem.


Jason Concepcion: It is family drama.


Rosie Knight: They’re Bad at it.


Jason Concepcion: But if you’re if you’re a rank and file soldier, I would be pissed. You’d be like, Hold on, we lost Alderaanso that you could let Darth Vader walk away. You fucking let him walk away.


Rosie Knight: Also, can you think about how disrespectful that is to Leia, like the person you are allegedly doing all of this for? Like, I understand that in this moment. Right? Like then the notion is still like that is that father and we see him kind of bring up and I understand his quandary, but also he should have just chopped off his head.


Jason Concepcion: Ended for the billions who will die on Alderaan. And I get it. You know,  can pull the trigger. I get it.


Rosie Knight: We know.


Jason Concepcion: But, like, Darth Vader was right there. He was standing next to it, you know, like.


Rosie Knight: They were trying to get information out of Leia, who’s just a too much of a real G. So that never happened. Like they’re all to blame. And then also.


Jason Concepcion: I got to say,Ben, you’re lucky nobody knows about this.


Rosie Knight: You’re lucky. Because also then think about this, then it’s not just those people. It’s like the five planets that Kylo Ren blows up because he’s inspired by old granddaddy. I have to say, I did think about Kylo a lot this episode. I was thinking about how happy he would be if he knew that Darth Vader’s helmet got smashed. I was like, Oh, he would have been so happy. He’ll never know. The lower emo would have been so happy.


Jason Concepcion: Back on Tatooine Ben is in rouet. He gets a force warning that Luke’s life is in imminent danger. This is the moment when Reva is standing above him and he arrives back on Tatooine. He finds Lars and Beru, anxiously calling out into the into the desert sands. Luke, Luke, Luke. And Dawn is breaking. Ben is like, I’m going to go run the DNC and look for her. But then Reva appears and she’s carrying Luke and she says, Listen, I’m sorry for all the child torture.


Rosie Knight: Kidnaping.


Jason Concepcion: The offscreen, but probable murders, the kidnaping, the evil stuff, the recent home invasion.


Rosie Knight: Hunting down my own people and .


Jason Concepcion: Of Casa Wet, which, by the way, could have easily resulted in Lars and Beru’s death. I’m very sorry that I invaded your home just moments ago. Plus, the concussion and lifelong trauma that I likely inflicted on Luke by chasing him into the Dunes Sea, threatening his life. My bad. It was all part of a plan to avenge my fellow younglings, and I couldn’t go through with it. And then it’s a weird note here where she’s actually devastated that she couldn’t go through with it. Like she cried, like.


Rosie Knight: I couldn’t do it. Also, like, I want to know. I want to know, like, did did she put the connection together that they are and Anakin’s kids and that’s why she wanted to do it, because otherwise I’m like, I don’t know why. I think she knows that there’s a connection.


Jason Concepcion: She knows that they’re important somehow, but she doesn’t know how. Yeah. Ben then tells Reva, Don’t worry about it. This is


Rosie Knight: Just go, kill some more people. Just chill man.


Jason Concepcion: And you actually honored the memory of your fellow younglings by not becoming like Darth, she says. What I think is, is and what I think is a very a line that really carries a lot of weight, she says. Have I become like him now? The answer is almost like you did do a lot of that. You did do a lot of bad shit. But Ben is like, no, you’re you did not do that.


Rosie Knight: In that moment he sees he knows the right thing to say to put her on the right path.


Jason Concepcion: He does. Exactly.


Rosie Knight: Which is like you have a chance here. Because really, she was hunting down Jedi. She was hunting down younglings as an inquisitor. Luckily, they’re bad at it, so she probably didn’t find too many. But no, I do like that. In that moment, Ben finally makes the right choice, and he’s like, It’s okay. Like, you finally realized. And from now on, you know, like, I would like to know what’s going to happen next with Reva. You know, I would like to see see..


Jason Concepcion: She gives up her she gives up her inquisitorial spintech 3000 light saber and.


Rosie Knight: She knows she’s.


Jason Concepcion: And now here again is another here again is another Jedi bullshit moment where I’ll just say it’s a good thing that the rest of the rebel alliance never finds out that fucking Ben Kenobi let a former inquisitorius walk because


Rosie Knight: That’s the reason they were all running away with their children, Ben.


Jason Concepcion: I got to say, if it was me, I’d be like, Listen, you did the right thing. Kudos to you. Hey, what’s that over there? And let’s just put an end to this.


Rosie Knight: Let’s remember that Roken’s wife was stolen by the inquisitorius and potentially turned into one like.


Jason Concepcion: Can somebody face justice just once that’s all I’m asking


Rosie Knight: One time.


Jason Concepcion:  one time, can someone time pay the price for the many, many, many crimes that have occurred across the galaxy? That’s all I’m asking.


Rosie Knight: The sad thing, I think, is that you raise such a good point about last week. The sad thing is when we actually look at the history of Star Wars, the people who often end up paying the price are people who.


Jason Concepcion: They’re regular people.


Rosie Knight: Who were bad, who actually decided to do the right thing and then they end up dying. Tala. You know, the kind of tragic, like people who turn their back on the empire. And it’s like for once, I’d just like to see a space Nazi die.


Jason Concepcion: I would love to see that. But like, you know, it’s always, you know, Admiral Raddus, the Bothann spies.


Rosie Knight: Mm hmm.


Jason Concepcion: Jyn Erso, the heroes of Raddus, all the rest. Those are the people that pay the ultimate price, that face down evil and put their lives up, lives up and say, I will pay the price for justice in the galaxy. And unfortunately, it’s a lot of these, the very powerful figures, the Jedi, etc., who just. They let their fellow powerful people get away with it.


Rosie Knight: Isn’t that real? Isn’t that. It’s very sadly real.


Jason Concepcion: It’s very sadly real. Back at Fortress Vader, Darth is back in some some fresh. He got some fresh armor and the closet. These face timing with Palpatine and Darth is a little hot. He’s coming in hot. He’s like, We got the probes out. I’m scouring the fucking galaxy. We can find this guy. He’s not going to escape us. We’re going to get him. And Palpatine is like, Hey, can I just ask, are you good? Like, you’re coming in a little hot.


Rosie Knight: I feel like you’re a bit distracted from the whole, like, dark side mission and.


Jason Concepcion: Like, gotta wonder, are you is your closeness to this weakening you a little bit? And then Darth is like, Ah, let me just assure you, Palpy. Emperor Palpatine Kenobi at all. I serve only you. And then with just the right drizzling of irony, my master puts my master on it.


Rosie Knight: Perfect delivery.


Jason Concepcion: You got to be careful with Palpatine because one of these days he’s going to pick up on it because that in and of itself is just that hint of rebellion against him.


Rosie Knight: I also think it’s a really good moment where it’s like Palpatine’s probably like, oh shit. Like Kenobi used to be his master. Look at how obsessed he is with getting him. And now it’s like now I’m his master. Like, this is probably not going to end well for me.


Jason Concepcion: On Alderaan, which is, by the way, a beautiful planet.


Rosie Knight: I love Leia so much.


Jason Concepcion: We get this wonderful moment of Leia getting dressed in the classic Princess Leia soldier gear, but smaller size.


Rosie Knight: Tiny, baby size.


Jason Concepcion: All white, all white gear with the white cloak in the white jacket and a little leather gun holster. And she’s doing your hair in the iconic Leia braid buns. And then Ben arrives, much to his delight. She thinks she’s like talking to Bail, and she’s like, Who’s this? Is this going to be cousins? He’s like, Not yet. And Ben gets off the ship and he brought Lola. Now I have notes. Leia. I get it because you’re ten, but you got to fucking come clean about exactly what Lola’s role, how Jabiim got life like it’s a little fucked up that you’re not that you’re not like she.


Rosie Knight: She learned from Obi Wan. She’s like Lola’s fine. If Lola lost the redeye, she’d be like, okay.


Jason Concepcion: I get it because she’s a kid again. But it’s just a little fucked up that she’s not like. So, by the way, the way the empire hacked into Jabiim’s security system, it was Lola. Was just fucking Lola. It was. That’s also the way they they track this, just.


Rosie Knight: So you should know.


Jason Concepcion: Does not mention it. Bail “Bags of Money” Organa. He is talking to Ben and he is he is fearful of the empire. He’s like, listen, the empire is getting bolder. They are getting stronger. They they are reaching out into the galaxy and fucking with the internal politics of various planets. I’m scared of them. Ben is like, I get it. It is a scary time, but if you need me, you know where to find me. Then Leia is like, Ben, I think you need to go take a nap because she’s like you are. Let me tell you, if you don’t get some sleep, you’re going to look. Like fucking sir Alec Guinness? Yes.


Rosie Knight: He did not take the advice, readers. Spoiler alert.


Jason Concepcion: And that is an old man.


Rosie Knight: He did not take the advice.


Jason Concepcion: You’re going to look super old if you don’t start sleeping. Yeah. So then he. He tells Leia in what is a really touching bit of dialog here. He’s like, Listen, you got these different traits from your mother and father. You know, your mother is discerning and your father is courageous. I would have, by the way, said that the mother also fearless, also very courageous. But that’s okay. Ben, of course, does not tell Leia here who exactly her parents are. He’s like, you got all these traits from them. And so you’re this this perfect combination of them. And I wish I could tell you more about who they are, but I can’t. And then Leia says, It’s okay, you don’t have to. Which I got to say, if it was me, I’d be like, Motherfucker, tell me. Just tell me who they are. Just tell me who they are.


Rosie Knight: Was one of them. That guy that was chasing our street was that guy dressed in all black with a light saber? Is he going to destroy my planet in ten years? Please give me a heads up.


Jason Concepcion: Did you and by the way, did you not finish him off so he can absolutely wreck my homeworld in ten years? Anyway


Rosie Knight: And he could have told Bail Organa and could have been like you don’t need to worry about the empire. I’ve killed Darth Vader. And yet.


Jason Concepcion: P.S., my fault your your entire planet got waxed in ten years. Anyway, they agree to keep their friendship top secret back on Tatooine. Ben is back in his cave. He has packed it up. He is moving somewhere deeper into the dune sea, we presume maybe some place where he can more easily keep an eye on Luke from afar. He puts on some normal clothes, some non-jedi clothes for once.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, finally.


Jason Concepcion: And then he goes to Casa Wet for for a meeting with Lars. And by the way, my guy Obi-Wan Kenobi. This guy loves nothing better than to ride a four legged alien.


Rosie Knight: This skinny elephant.


Rosie Knight: This is like his king. He will always find a weird, wierd alien to ride on.


Jason Concepcion: Loves to do this. Where was he during order 66? Riding a fucking iguana.


Rosie Knight: When Reva asked him, I would have liked riding a giant lizard.


Jason Concepcion: Where were you? Why didn’t you help us? I was riding an iguana.


Rosie Knight: Sorry man.


Jason Concepcion: I’m sorry.


Rosie Knight: Also, I know this is one of those questions that people like us talk about all the time, and it’s one of the funniest things to. But it’s kind of like you can talk about it with Pokemon or Flintstones and Star Wars. What’s it? Which aliens can you ride? Which aliens are sentient, right. And would be like in the Galactic Senate? And which ones do you decide you’re just going to ride? It’s like it’s it’s the ultimate logic question of Star Wars or any of these places.


Jason Concepcion: So Ben has a conversation with his brother, a question mark, Laws. And Ben admits, Lars, you’re right. Luke needs a a regular  Tatooine childhood. He just needs to grow up. The regular kid doesn’t need me hanging around. I promise to steer clear, but of course, he’s going to keep a watchful eye. He knows that Lars and Beru more Beru than Lars, but he knows that he can handle they can he can keep in keeping them safe. Then Lars, in a wonderful surprise, like truly a wonderful I don’t know how this I haven’t fully processed how this works canonically but this is this was a wonderful moment he says hey, do you want to you want to talk to Luke? And Ben says, Yes. So he goes over. He meets the young man and then rides off into the Dune Sea. On the way to the ravine across the Dune Sea. He runs into Master Qu-Gon freaking finally, and he’s like, Hey, I’ve been trying to reach you all this time where the what’s up? And Qui-gon’s like yeah, but you weren’t ready for it. Sorry, I’ve been watching all this stuff happen and you just weren’t ready to hear from me yet. That’s the way I roll. I’m Qui-Gon Jinn. I’ve always been a little bit of a maverick, a little bit of a rogue. And that’s how I do things. I’m showing up much later than you expect. Hey. And by the way, you have a lot of things to do, so and miles to go before you sleep, so let’s get to it.


Rosie Knight: And they just go off like a funny bloody comedy is just like they walk together.


Jason Concepcion: And that is that has been the end the event finale of Obi Wan Kenobi. And I, I quite enjoyed it. I quite enjoyed it. Your thoughts?


Rosie Knight: I thought. It’s very fun. I think I think I enjoy it like I, I don’t feel like, you know, I guess especially as we were going through the recap, the thing that I really love about this, I think they did very smartly and hey, maybe it’s a bit cynical, right? But I think it works for the most part. I liked how much context they built in to the original trilogy. Like when I was thinking about it, like, here’s why Obi-Wan didn’t really get involved with Luke. One of the big questions we’ve always had, you know, that moment where he says to Bail, like, You know where I’ll be if you need me, and then, you know, him and Leia kind of keeping it a secret, but still having that connection like that stuff worked really, really well for me. I don’t necessarily think. I think the show started off really, really strong and I don’t necessarily think that this is in the best of the best episodes from the season, but I had a really fun time watching it. I do think it fell into a lot of the the Star Wars tropes of like. Why didn’t you just do this? But that’s how it’s always been. That’s it. That’s always, always, always been those kind of pulpy at this is you’re not watching this for like a puzzle box mystery. You’re watching it because you want to see Beru pull out like a blast and you want to see someone have like a ten minute long lightsaber fight. And I didn’t know this was something that I would ever get to experience. But you want to see baby Leia choosing her own clothes, you know, throwing away the Alderaan garms and just, like, putting on her own little style. So I just thought it was really lovely. I think it’s very fan servicey, but I am also a fan. So.


Jason Concepcion: I am a fan and I would like to be serviced. Thank you very much


Rosie Knight: I like to be serviced. Thank you. guess I always just like people are like it’s fan service. I’m like, I’ll take it. Nine times out of ten, I’m like, Yeah, it’s like, Yeah, cool. I want to see Obi-Wan and Anakin can have a fight. That’s cool.


Jason Concepcion: That lasted the entire third act. I, I, here’s what I really liked about this series and it’s, I think. And he was a through line here about. About it from my perspective my opinion what I think is some of the strongest Star Wars material and it is that. Pre Rebel Alliance into A New Hope era that was so wonderfully explored in Rebels, which again is some of the best Star Wars out there that.


Rosie Knight: Is absolutely.


Jason Concepcion: Incredibly executed in Rogue One, which again is probably the best Star Wars movie and only gets better and richer the more you watch it. With time, it gets better and better. And here again, we’re seeing this the the stirrings of this nascent rebel alliance. There’s no name for it yet. It’s just people who have decided enough’s enough. We’re going to help people no matter what that means. If that puts us on the other side of the law, then the law’s unjust. And we’re going to fight. We’re going to protect people. We’re going to do good. It’s the same thing with what I thought were some of the most interesting moments in in Solo, a Star Wars story with Enfys Nest., as you mentioned.


Rosie Knight: Enfys Nest is just I love that stuff so much.


Jason Concepcion: I think this is such a rich period of time and seeing how. I loved focusing on Obi-Wan and I think Ewan McGregor again, as we’ve said many times, just like Mm nails it so many fuckin ways, the tears in his eyes, the way everything, all of his failures come crashing down. You read it on him is great. But like meeting Roken, meeting Sully.


Rosie Knight: Exactly.


Jason Concepcion: Seeing The Path. Seeing how all of this stuff comes together feels so rich to me and to your word. Like providing that context of a family drama, a friendship drama, all these, like, mini conflicts within the larger firmament of this galactic rebellion that is just beginning to stir. You know, I’ve always that’s the stuff that I really like. This is why I like Clone Wars, why I like Rebels, and why I, what I loved about Obi Wan.


Rosie Knight: I would love to see. Like, I would love to see a show just called Rebellion. Doesn’t need to be called Rebels. We have Rebels. Rebels is brilliant, like you said to some of the best style definitely has one of my favorite finales of all time, which I always say, but like I would love to see that explored more. I would love to see a show about how rebellions really begin. I would love to know more about Broken and Sully. I would love to see Enfys Nest. I love that notion of it’s the ultimate question, you know? Yeah, what is a terrorist? What is a freedom fighter like? Those are the questions that are at the heart of Star Wars. And I think that that we owe a lot of people what we’ve always said, and they do this in the books by a lot of fans. We’ve always said, like, we want to see new characters. Now Taika Waititi is talking about how his that’s what he’s going to do with his Star Wars movie and stuff. I would love to see the shows commit to that. I would love and we, you know, The Mandalorian, we got it. We get new versions. But like, I want to see the people. I want to see the soldiers who have to fight. I want to see I would watch a show about the, you know, stormtroopers or the first order troopers or the clone troopers. Like, I want to know about the people who have to live this who are not the big headliner.


Jason Concepcion: Not the jedi, not the force sensitives.


Rosie Knight: That’s why Rogue One is so brilliant.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, I completely agree. And that is to your point. It’s a big galaxy and there’s just a lot of space to explore.


Rosie Knight: Show me the outer rim. You know, we’re waiting to see it.


Jason Concepcion: Like, what is Saul Guerrera up to in these years, preceeding Rogue One when he is, you know, one of the few people to really see what the empire is.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, him,You know, you could have him when he was still in cahoots with the rebellion, you know, when he thought that working alongside them was right before those before those arguments, you know, changed. And I think that there is a exploration in, you know, in the wider genre space. Like definitely obviously things like Umbrella Academy have been doing it for a long time. Who’s a hero, who’s a villain. But that seems to be coming more to the forefront in Marvel. We talked about with this idea of these morally gray heroes. And that is a big thing that they’re teasing with Black Adam as well, which is this notion of like who gets to choose, who’s a hero, who’s a vigilante, who’s a murderer, what is collateral damage? And I think that is going to be Star Wars would be very smart to explore that more because they’ve been doing it for decades already. But we’ve got the time and space and the platform with Disney plus. Yeah. And Super Producer Saul and Peacemaker two. Yeah, you know, and Suicide Squad. I love that Suicide Squad movie. You know, I think those stories are really ripe for the telling and I think people want to have those conversations now. So Star Wars is a great place to do that, and I hope we get more of that kind of story.


Jason Concepcion: I’m really excited. This is this is why I’m really excited for the Andor series, because I feel like this is more of that. More of that.


Rosie Knight: Absolutely what it’s going to be.


Jason Concepcion: In that early rebellion space when people of unclear moral standing come to a crossroads and just have to decide, am I going to keep doing this or I’ve had enough and. I think that some of the richest like ground for Star Wars stories and I.


Rosie Knight: Absolutely.


Jason Concepcion: Really excited to see it. This was fun. I really enjoyed Obi-Wan Kenobi. I am. Legitimately surprised at how many like twists and shocks they gave us, considering we absolutely knew that like the top three characters in it could not die. Yeah, it truly, truly could not legitimately  like most. Like most, if not all minus Reva of the inquisitors. Also could not die. Like.


Rosie Knight: To be honest. Like to build stakes in a space where everyone knows pretty amazing what happens. That’s pretty cool, man. That that’s an achievement.


Jason Concepcion: I, I really enjoyed it, and I love being able to talk to you about it.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, me too.


Jason Concepcion: I love being able to talk to have all of you who are listening. Listening to talk about it. Big thank you to all of you for taking that journey with us to. And a big thank you, of course, Rosie Knight for hosting this episode, Rosie. Shall we plug where we plug and play plugs?


Rosie Knight: Godzilla. I think you can actually still preorder. You can still preorder it. Godzilla versus Batra. You can preorder it. That information is on my Instagram, which is Rosie Marx. M a r x. It’s coming soon. I mean, it’s going to be out in the first week of August, and we’re going to have some cool like event type thingies, like hyping up some of our favorite shops, stuff like that. So it’s going to be really good. Rosie Marx is also my letterboxd and the last thing I’ll do is a plug because this is for like $1,000,000,000 movie or, well, a very high budget movie, but. I will say I was very delightfully surprised to learn when I saw Vivien Lyra Blair as Leih. I was like, I love her. Like what? I feel like.


Jason Concepcion: She’s so appealing,.


Rosie Knight: Right? Yeah. But I didn’t realize there was a reason for that, which is if you haven’t watched it. But what Rodriguez made this one real family superhero movie that they released on Christmas Day on Netflix in 2020 called We Can Be Heroes. And it is like incredibly pure, kind of like a Disney Channel original movie vibe. But Vivien Lyra Blair is in it and she’s like five. And she plays a superhero called Guppy who is like, the kid of this is a this is for those out there who know the the Rodriguez kids canon. This is a Sharkboy and Lavagirl kind of spin off. And Guppy Guppy plays this kid, but she did a lot of the stunts, so that they did all these practical stunts of her flipping all these adult men. And it’s like so good to watch and her character is so cute. So if after watching this you love Leia, you’ll love Vivien Lyra Blair you think Robert Rodriguez’s kids movies are cool? So like Sharkboy and Lavagirl. Thank you. You know, I would add that.


Jason Concepcion: Spy Kids is Spy Kids.


Rosie Knight: Spy Kids, I mean is iconic. I could I mean.


Jason Concepcion: Truly, I guys Spy Kids is legitimately great shit.


Rosie Knight: The cast so yeah I would just say that is really fun especially if you’ve got little ones all you just like cute pure things so yeah and I was when I found out it was her, I was so happy. I was like, Oh, this all makes sense.


Jason Concepcion: And P.S. we’ll be having some giveaways and stuff once Godzilla drops. And we’ll be doing fun, some fun stuff to get that issue into the hands of people. Our next episode. Pay attention now you’re off. We are dark next week because some of my guys were going on vacation, folks, a well-earned holiday. We’ve been crushing it. Crushing it. Nose, nose to the grindstone. And for once, we’re going to actually take a break where we don’t work, there’ll be no working. So no episode next week. But we will. But we will come back for on July 8th with a discussion of Thor, Love and Thunder. Catch us then in two and two weeks. It’s wonderful to be with you. Don’t forget five stars. Five star reviews by wherever you get your podcasts. Leave, if you’re going to leave us reading, it’s got to be five stars. X-ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. The show is executive produced by myself and Sandy Girard. Our editing and sound design is by the Vasilis Fotopoulos. Delon Villanueva and Matt DeGroot provide video production support. Alex Reliford handles social media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for a theme music folks. See you next time.


Rosie Knight: Bye.


Jason Concepcion: So did you get him? What happened with what happened with Darth Vader? I let him away. We fought. You know, and let him get away. And you’d kill them? I sliced his helmet open pretty good and smashed his his his life sustaining armor. So, you know, so I. I couldn’t, you know, I didn’t put my finger to his throat and and feel a pulse, but he looked pretty bad, I got to say. Okay. So give me a give me a range here, you think he’s he’s probably dead, right? Yeah. Again, I you know, if I would have had a mirror to put under his nose, I would have done it, you know? But I didn’t have it. And I was winded and I needed to get to Tatooine really quick. So and you know, again, his armor was fucked up, but I would have had to take it off to really take his vitals. And, and I got out of there and he’s probably dead. In order to support our show, we need the help of some great advertisers. And we want to make sure those advertisers are the ones that you actually care about. But we need to learn a little bit more about you to make that possible. So we are asking humbly for you to go to and take a quick anonymous survey that will help us get to know you better. That way we could bring on advertisers. You won’t want to skip. Once you’ve completed the Quick Survey, you can enter for a chance to win a $100 Amazon gift card. Terms and conditions apply again. That’s Xray Thank you for your help.