"Problem Child Stars" w. Jake Lacy | Crooked Media
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November 09, 2022
Keep It
"Problem Child Stars" w. Jake Lacy

In This Episode

Ira and Louis discuss celebrities turning out for Rick Caruso, Drake’s Megan the Stallion diss, Rihanna adding Johnny Depp to the Savage x Fenty Show, Selena Gomez’s new documentary, TVLine’s ranking of the best HBO characters, Karamo’s talk show, and Aaron Carter’s passing. Plus, Jake Lacy joins to discuss his career shift from nice guy to villains in The White Lotus and A Friend of the Family.




Ira Madison III And we are back with an all new episode of Keep It. I’m Ira Madison III.


Louis Virtel I’m Louis Virtel it’s a very gray day in Los Angeles. It’s also Election Day here. I know by the time you hear this episode, it won’t be Election Day, but just now we’re living in this Sleepy Hollow version of reality right now, which feels a little appropriate.


Ira Madison III I want to say that we’ll know whether or not, you know, Rick Caruso becomes mayor of.


Louis Virtel My hero. I’m so kidding.


Ira Madison III By the time this airs. But I just want to point out some losers.


Louis Virtel Sure.


Ira Madison III Chris Pratt.


Louis Virtel Oh.


Ira Madison III You suck.


Louis Virtel You don’t say.


Ira Madison III You suck.


Louis Virtel You don’t say. Also, his long, rambling explanation where he’s like, I’ve been in L.A. a long time and this is the city I love. And it’s really fallen to shit. Girl, have you walked these streets? I’ve not seen you out.


Ira Madison III Really pounding the pavement to get to those Jurassic Park auditions.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Absolutely not. Loser.


Ira Madison III And Katy Perry.


Louis Virtel Who had to show us the screen she was voting on with a smile on her face. I have not seen since, like Bob’s big boy.


Ira Madison III And doing her like Laverne and Shirley jumped kick into the air outside the polling place, too, in one of the slides or on her Instagram carousel. It’s like, Bitch . aren’t? You’ve already stolen a home from nuns and killed one of them.


Louis Virtel Also, I did not realize she was appropriating Laverne and Shirley culture, and now I’m livid. Because by the way, there are some sitcom legends out there who are doing the work. Our friend, Valerie Bertinelli slaying with the content on Twitter. So this is officially a Valerie Bertinelli Stans Only podcast.


Ira Madison III I think that I think Katy Perry is secretly a super villain. The non-fans that supported Rick Caruso, like what’s next? I and whatever she did to Bonnie McKee.


Louis Virtel Oh, my God. Well, we’ll get into that. And I hope I hope the podcast community investigates that, frankly. God, I love Bonnie McKee. Yeah. I, I regret loving her Vegas show, which I do think is one of the most spectacular things I’ve ever seen live. I regret that she gave us a gay, disgusting Kid Choice Awards level gala performance that I enjoyed because this upsets me.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Basically, every celebrity who’s come out of the woodwork to be like Rick Caruso is great. It’s. It’s extra maddening because they’re all people who are, like, down for Obama, for Hillary, like, you know, for by the like we’re supporting the blue, always vote blue. But it’s like, you know what? You can’t just be a voter. You also have to be an informed voter. Mm hmm.


Louis Virtel Now, that seems like a huge ask, and I feel like you should. You’re saying a lot there to people who don’t do a lot of huge asks. You know what I’m saying?


Ira Madison III The only person I like sort of whatever about is Gwyneth Paltrow, because who expects her to be on the right side of anything? She’s not even on the right side of us needing her back on a set again instead of selling, whatever she’s selling at Goop. Like we want. You acted.


Louis Virtel Yeah. No, she’s only on the right side of a kitchen island, and I don’t need to see how she makes an omelet anymore. I’ve seen it before.


Ira Madison III But anyway.


Louis Virtel So Plath again or something? Yes.


Ira Madison III Famously loves kitchens. Sofia. Yeah.


Louis Virtel One of the great kitchen acting performances.


Ira Madison III You give her some comment and so really dig into the back of that other part of it’s always weird recording this on Election Day, but at least it’s not like of actual presidential election day. That the times we recorded those was dark.


Louis Virtel Yes. Anyway, I swear we won’t be getting into this any other time during the episode. So


Ira Madison III No, we’ll talk about other depressing things.


Louis Virtel Yeah. I have to say, I’m not a fan of this episode on the outside. I’m just going to throw it out there.


Ira Madison III There we are. We are going to talk about other celebrities we are disappointed with this week, including Drake and Rihanna.


Louis Virtel Vastly different reasons, but both seemed stench of awful. Of what? Of of bewilderment.


Ira Madison III And it helps that their recent music outputs are bad too. So


Louis Virtel That, you’re right, is deeply helpful. You’re right. Yeah. Like at least.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel At least there’s not.


Ira Madison III If Lift Me Up was a bop, I’d be like Rihanna. Yeah, I’m so angry. But I have not listened to that song since.


Louis Virtel No, it did not lift me. I’m firmly on the ground.


Ira Madison III And we are also going to discuss Selena Gomez’s new documentary. And, you know, Aaron Carter did pass away, too. So we’re also going to discuss his life.


Louis Virtel I was going to say about him, obviously, I heard that. Immediately sad. I was piecing together pieces of his life. I remember that all individually, just as it might at first, all seem tragic. But I was in a house full of people in Palm Springs, and I have to tell you, fully half the house did not know who Aaron Carter was, and I.


Ira Madison III Disgusting.


Louis Virtel And that was even more disorienting. Yeah. No, I can’t put on a clinic right now. I can’t, like, tell you what Aaron’s party was or that you should have come to get it.


Ira Madison III There were two. There were two parties that every kid wanted to go to.


Louis Virtel That’s right.


Ira Madison III Aaron’s party and an S Club party.


Louis Virtel Oh, please. S club. The endorphins coming off that group. It’s like eight teens. I was soaring.


Ira Madison III Bouncing off the wall, you mean?


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III Bouncing off the ceiling?


Louis Virtel More accurately? Yes.


Ira Madison III Was the song Bouncing Off the Ceilings or Bouncing Off the Wall?


Louis Virtel Bouncing Off the Ceiling Upside Down.


Ira Madison III Okay. Wow. Just like bedknobs and broomsticks.


Louis Virtel And also Lionel Richie. That’s more dancing on the ceiling, but I feel the vibe is similar here.


Ira Madison III Do you think the eight teens are mad that Mama mia stole their Abba gig?


Louis Virtel Their whole thing, and then Abba sold their Abba gig. It’s like now we have Abba again.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Who will remember the Eight Teens? Well, eight adults now.


Louis Virtel Wow. Eight Adults? I’m not saying I’m not at that concert, but, you know, there’s a stink on it and the smell of beige lipstick, which is what Abba gives us.


Ira Madison III In better news, we are delighted to have Jake Lacy as our guest this week, who is wonderfully delightful.


Louis Virtel Thoughtful, cool person. I bring this up in the interview, but he plays this disgusting character on this show called A Friend of the Family. It’s based on a real story. This man, who is a neighbor to a family of three girls, kidnaps one of the girls, brainwashes her to a certain degree, and he is perfectly cast as this upstanding seeming seventies guy. And it really reminds me of Dan White, who the guy who killed Harvey Milk and George Mosconi. It really has the vibe of I just want everybody in the town to eat ice cream with me. And then inside, I’m a broken sociopath.


Ira Madison III That’s interesting, because you know what? I would not think of him and Josh Brolin having a lot in common because when I think of Dan White,  I think of the movie Milk.


Speaker 3 Right?


Louis Virtel Yes. Lots of good performances in Milk.


Ira Madison III I don’t think I’ve looked up much of like what Dan White looks like, but. Oh, you know what? He looks very Jake Lacy.


Louis Virtel Yes, totally. No. In the times of Harvey Milk that the feel is similar.


Ira Madison III You know, he was very good in Milk, by the way.


Louis Virtel Here comes James Franco.


Ira Madison III I mean. Yes, I mean, James Franco’s amazing in it. R.I.P.. I was going to say Denis O’Hare.


Louis Virtel Right? Yeah. No, I mean, obviously, Sean Penn is frigging spectacular and that movie absolutely nailed it.


Ira Madison III But Alison Pill, too. Also, remember, she was on Keeper.


Louis Virtel Right. Was she talking a lot about like like physics or something? It was it was a crazy interview. Cool person, weirdo actor. Yeah. Then I want I was like, remember when you were in a play with Glenda Jackson? Was she scary? And she goes, Yes, that was.


Ira Madison III An awesome. That was awesome. Yeah. Because I think she was in all because she was because she was in the Alex Garland series, Devs, which never came back. Yes.


Louis Virtel Right, right, right. That was a Nick Offerman. Correct. Okay. Moving on.


Ira Madison III Well, anyway, we’ve got more Keep It coming up for you. So we’ll be right back. So Drake lost his damn mind on his and 21 Savage’s new album. Her loss of not just firing shots, but seemingly just closing his eyes and shooting at random. The line that’s getting the most attention, obviously, is when he references Megan Thee Stallion and her shooting from that short Canadian, Torey Lanez. Okay, I couldn’t remember his name. I’m like, there’s a lot of short Canadians out there. You know.


Louis Virtel You don’t want people to think Michael J. Fox did it. Right


Ira Madison III  I can see Michael J. Fox and Megan Thee Stallion having some beef.


Louis Virtel But settling it amicably. Tracy Pollan acts as intermediary.


Ira Madison III Yes, he said this bitch lie about getting shots, but she still stallion. Great.


Louis Virtel Just a brilliant lyric. Oh, my God. One for the ages. Did  Cole Porter write that one? No? Okay.


Ira Madison III And also sidebar, Serena, your husband a groupie about Alex Ohanian, which, of course he is.


Louis Virtel Right.Who’s not a fan?


Ira Madison III I, I would, I would be happy to be Serena’s groupie. You’re her groupie, bitch.


Louis Virtel No kidding. Well, he’s. What? What? What exactly is the relationship they’re supposed to have? Don’t be a fan of hers at all. Or notice her legacy or anything.


Ira Madison III Yeah. So I was obviously disappointed because I think Keep It listeners know I am a on the record Drake fan.


Louis Virtel Sure.


Ira Madison III Our male Taylor Swift, as it were.


Louis Virtel I mean, that really sets my brain on fire. No idea what that could mean. But. All right.


Ira Madison III I think we’ve discussed this before. I think they both have an obsession with charts. For one, I feel like they both sort of use their relationships with other people to propel them forward in like pop culture. Yeah, I think they’re like they like.


Louis Virtel Building intrigue around their relationships.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Yeah. And they both sort of like they both like sort of write about their relationships too in an interesting way. And I think that they also both know like how the Internet will respond to them and anticipate it. You know, like the one thing about Drake is that like we used to always talk about his, the fact that he was always he always knew that people were going to meme him and make fun of him, which is why you would. We started getting things like Hotline Bling where he was just creating a meme as a video before people could meme it, you know. But I think that he like gets there. And interestingly enough, it reminds me this new album, her loss, which I’ll discuss in a moment, reminds me of just sort of Taylor’s response post reputation because he makes reference to the fact that people weren’t really feeling his last album, Honestly, Nevermind, which, you know, was more of the like House and Dance album, which came out right before Renaissance. And so like, people paid it dust. So for a couple of really good songs on it and I feel like this album, this album is just sort of like back to basics Drake Because he’s like, okay, people didn’t want me to do something different. And it’s very much how Taylor feels when you know something of hers does. Is it like like if this album wasn’t as successful as it was the current one Midnight’s All on the charts, she would go back to doing folklore or something, you know?


Louis Virtel Mm hmm. Right. Yeah. I mean, it’s back to basics almost. That’s all it is. I felt like listening to this album, I was listening to largely tracks that could have come out seven years ago.


Ira Madison III Yeah, he sort of hasn’t progressed as an artist, and it’s sort of now just highlighting the fact that he is, I don’t know, an asshole.


Louis Virtel Yeah. What is with that Megan thee stallion line? I mean, just what is why stated? Why weigh in? It’s now a couple of years old, right? It’s just a strange journey. I know you’re saying like people, he wants to stir people up, probably get people interested, but just gross. I can’t stand it.


Ira Madison III Yeah, I don’t like it at all. And it makes it it made me, like, really uncomfortable, even wanting to, like, listen to the album. Luckily, it’s bad. So at 21 Savage is better than him on the album, and 21 Savage is weirdly relegated to like a featured artist on it. So whatever.


Louis Virtel Yeah. Yeah. I’m too busy with other albums right now anyway. Do you know whose new album I like? Are you ready for this, Phoenix. So good.


Ira Madison III You listening to  Phoenix?


Louis Virtel Can you believe it? I couldn’t believe it. Somebody put it on their insta story and I was like, I’m going to give it a shot. Wow. I’m into it.


Ira Madison III Okay.


Louis Virtel And also. Excuse me. Wait, do you have Barbra Streisand live at the Bon Soir? Let’s talk about beats. Let’s talk about beats.


Ira Madison III Who who’s tweeting about Barbra Streisand? Oh, Sheryl Lee Ralph was like tweeting about Barbra Streisand, Live at the Bon Soir. So.


Louis Virtel Oh, yes. People don’t know in this in the early sixties at the same time she was in I Can Get It for You wholesale her breakthrough Broadway performance. Barbra Streisand was doing this nightclub act at the Bon Soir. It went on for a long time, kept getting extended. And initially they recorded her at the Bon Soir as for an album and then instead did a studio recording of several tracks she does during this live recording, and that became the first Barbra Streisand album, which won the Grammy for Album of the Year, and that was the beginning of her recording career. So now they have instead taken these early recordings where she’s barely 20 years old and released it as her 57th album. Extremely strange. It’s like suddenly getting an album of like, here’s the first time the Beatles were in a garage playing with each other. It just it’s like it’s crazy that we’re suddenly getting it now. And it is.


Ira Madison III I think I’ve seen that video on XTube before, so. Sure.


Louis Virtel XTube. Wow. You in your late sixties? Yeah. Let’s get you a Twitter account.


Ira Madison III I actually love when people make an XTube reference because what I try to think about the interface for that website, it’s it’s so confusing.


Louis Virtel Well, just it’s one of those sites where there’s 100,000 buttons everywhere and things are popping up at you. Right.


Ira Madison III And there’s a lot of like images on the screen too. I’m like, I don’t need to see all these random straight sex scenes happening in the corner as I’m.


Louis Virtel No.


Ira Madison III I’m looking for whoever.


Louis Virtel Those weird porn sites where it’s like you can win 50 coins if you click on this video, you know, just like lots of bullshit going on anyway. I honestly, if you want to be reacquainted with the fact that Barbra Streisand is a fucking freak, these vocals are just unbelievable. Her. It’s like, I feel like she’s one of the few people ever who as much as she wields power as a vocalist, dynamic control of dynamics and pitch and basic things that make a singer great the way she throws around character is fucking crazy. We have nobody like that. Now who? The minute they sing and like, there’s like a comic aside in the song or like a triumphant, emotional moment, she really. It’s like zooming betweens the between the extremes of being a person. And I it’s just it’s just so amazing. And you can hear that you’re about to meet a brilliant actress in addition to a huge singing star. When you listen to this album, I know this is a conversation about Drake, but, guys, this is the real fucking deal.


Ira Madison III Well, let me tell you something. You know, two iconic Jewish singers, so.


Louis Virtel Okay, okay.


Ira Madison III Okay. So .


Louis Virtel You know what you’re giving right now? When RBG would be like Biggie Smalls and I are both from Brooklyn. Yeah, how about that?


Ira Madison III Okay, listen, we are combating antisemitism with Drake and Barbara this week, okay?


I think we’re helping. Yes.


Ira Madison III Yeah, Drake’s helping. All right. I actually. Speaking of albums that we haven’t brought up. Yeah, we talked about Carly Rae Jepsen, but we have not talked about to They Lose.


Louis Virtel Which we’re I’m still getting over the indignity of having to say the words Tuvalu. I mean, it just sounds like a chimney sweep says to get in your house.


Ira Madison III But it sounds like something that like a German child said to you as they stolen your candy. Yeah.


Louis Virtel And by the way, those are. That’s a menacing childhood. The Germans.


Ira Madison III Yeah, yeah. That’s what Augustus Gloop was wailing as he drowned in the chocolate. Yeah.


Louis Virtel Those are his last words. Yes. Before Roald Dahl went on killing kids or whatever, actually, in the book in the book of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, at the end, all the kids wave to Charlie as he’s in the air. So they are officially are supposed to be alive, which surprises me, because it seems like Roald Dahl has the heart of somebody who, you know, kills kids.


Ira Madison III Those are ghosts. Yeah. They’re not alive, Louis and. Oh, great. Charlie had a great glass elevator. It’s him going to heaven.


Louis Virtel Yeah. There’s a lot that’s fucked up in that book, too, when, like, suddenly the grandparents are -20 years old or whatever. Don’t bedtime please don’t on.


Ira Madison III But dirt film is a really good album.


Louis Virtel I will get on that. I’m surprised I haven’t actually. I guess I’m still absorbed in the Carly Rae album, which is continues. You grow on me. At first I thought it was a little cloying. Palm Springs by the pool, which I which I like. But then also it’s like your personality. Yes, but except. Except I need there to be something active in there, hanging out by the pool, like we’re dancing by the pool as opposed to in a coma by the pool.


Ira Madison III That’s fair. I would also say that I have gotten into, um, the Arctic Monkeys new album. You know.


Louis Virtel That’s always been your brand, though. I’m not surprised about that.


Ira Madison III Yeah, but they’ve. They’ve into their lounge singer era. Meaning what? Meaning that, like, the last album was very sort of like the fifties. Like, you know, Ocean’s 11, Rat Pack throwback. And this album is less kitschy than the other one. Like, it’s not like it’s really like, oh, we’re making, like, an album like this, but they’re less in their. On the in there, like sort of like Hard Rock. Era. You know what? Like what they’re doing less of, like Sheffield, like grunge, like they were doing like that. We know them from like, you know, like, yeah, I bet you look good on the dance floor, you know, like that kind of music. They’re now like they’re relaxed and it’s I mean, Alex Turner has a great fucking voice, so he sounds good singing anything. But it’s interesting to see them go from, like, hard, sort of like dance rock to this. And I love that in interviews, too. They’re sort of like, you know, that Jay-Z line, you know, sort of like buy my old albums if you want that old shit, because, like, he doesn’t give a fuck.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right. No, I mean, like, I’m sort of intrigued by the lounge singer angle. I just think we need greater Robert Goulet literacy in this country altogether. People, let’s remember him as a Will Ferrell character, and I think there’s some awesome vocals going on there. Yeah, just anything back Iraq and, you know, I wish people still cared about that stuff.


Ira Madison III Well, we don’t care about Burt Bacharach any more because no one’s watching American Idol, Louis and.


Louis Virtel Oh, that’s.


Ira Madison III Crazy.


Louis Virtel American Idol.


Ira Madison III Right?


Louis Virtel Yeah. I just want to be clear. This was a sensation television show, maybe among the ten biggest shows of all time, and they would throw a Bacharach knight. I mean, it just really boggles the mind. And then you would see someone give like a C minus performance of not walk on by a kelley nailed that, but a C minus performance of anyone who had a heart or a song that would never be on the radio now or.


Ira Madison III We got we got a lot of got a lot of renditions of I say a little prayer.


Louis Virtel Right. And as you know, I prefer the Dionne version to the Aretha version, which I think is could make me neo con, but that’s how I feel.


Ira Madison III You know? What do you put her? Um, God bless.


Louis Virtel Her. What she put in it.


Ira Madison III I could even. For her.


Louis Virtel War was. Yeah, right.


Ira Madison III I couldn’t even figure out a way to get she put her whole life which and war wake up in my brain.


Louis Virtel This whole psychic friends network was up in that. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Though I love I love that rendition of underrated Dionne Warwick, to be honest. I mean, I never I know her mom passed away. Twitter stuff and the Psychic Friends Network. But I feel like not enough attention is paid to her early singing days, which are like, she has fucking amazing album.


Louis Virtel It’s an A, she’s an immaculate voice that it’s like it’s never pushing, but it’s very emotional. It’s like it’s a voice that draws you in. It’s not like exploding at you. She’s not a belter closer to someone like a Karen Carpenter than an Aretha, for example. But. Yet? No, I’d.


Ira Madison III Watch Todd Haynes as Dionne Warwick film.


Louis Virtel Which she could still contribute to. I’m sure she has. I think she has a really strong working memory of all those times, too. She gives she has given some spectacular interviews.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel By the way, this reminds me, while we’re on this topic, you just brought up Todd Haynes. Do you know what I’ve been in denial about? And I think I’m ready to accept Ryan Murphy should do a madonna series. I think he would be reverent to the things that would be exciting to watch in a TV show, and I think it could be his crowning moment. I know people are like a little OD’ing on him. You know, over the past five or seven years, we’ve gotten so much content from him. And, you know, sometimes it’s the people versus O.J. and sometimes it’s the politician. But I think.


Ira Madison III Anyway, I agree.


Louis Virtel I think he would slay it.


Ira Madison III Yeah, I think I think he’d be good. I think he would. I think he’d pay. Yes, you’re right. The right amount of reverence to her.


Louis Virtel And also what being critical and also like making it dimensional, because he’s somebody who, you know, is like an obsessed fan, you know?


Ira Madison III Yeah. Also, they’re both crazy, so.


Louis Virtel Yeah. Right, exactly. It works out together.


Ira Madison III I thought I thought you when you were talking about hotheads, I thought you were about to be like, you know what? I hate far from heaven.


Louis Virtel I actually think Far from heaven is more three stars than four stars. But the performances are great. And also, why didn’t Dennis Haysbert get, like 20,000 roles of that size afterwards? It upsets me. Racism issues the word racism more often.


Ira Madison III Racism. Actually, I think it was that. Plus, he was stuck on 24.


Louis Virtel Oh, right, right, right. He was he was in a prison and Alicia Cuthbert was the warden.


Ira Madison III I mean, speaking of Fox series that were massive, right? Like, yeah, the ratings for like American Idol 24. I agree with it being three stars, though. I think obviously all that heaven allows is better. The search film. Yes, right. And better in that trilogy is the Fassbinder film, Ali. Fear is the soul.


Louis Virtel Now, speaking of fear, eating the soul, Rihanna. What’s going on there?


Ira Madison III Okay. So Rihanna, you know, has her savage x Fenty drop. She loves this fashion show that’s become like a production every year. It drops on Amazon and every year I hang out at a guy’s place and it plays in the background. It’s like a perfect, like, video to put on to like look up and watch periodically.


Louis Virtel While I’m facing the other direction and eating cashews. Yes.


Ira Madison III Yes. But she put Johnny Depp in this one. And I want to say, first of all, I don’t care what your thoughts are on Johnny Depp versus Amber Heard. Who wants to see that man in underwear?


Louis Virtel No, absolutely the fuck not. No, no. I don’t want to see his facial expression as he walks by us either. There’s just. I mean, like it feels like the the Rihanna version of voting for Rick Russo. I mean, it’s just.


Ira Madison III What she probably did, right? I guess she probably should. I always forget that. She sort of. I think, Ray, sorry what I said, but we always forget that Rihanna is kind of a bozo.


Louis Virtel Bozo, very underrated insult.


Ira Madison III Because she does a lot of very silly things like supporting Shawn King. You know? So do things like that. And you’re like, oh, okay. We get it.


Louis Virtel Right. But you’re too busy standing, so, you know. You know, stick with that thought. You don’t stay on that much. Yeah. Also, there’s just something about, like, Johnny Depp in general where it’s like, haven’t you seen the Internet has treated this whole thing disgustingly. I mean, I don’t mean to say people standing up for, like domestic abuse victims is disgusting. I absolutely do not mean to say that. But like. Johnny Depp has proven that he is discussed. We have the texts to prove it. We have. There’s no denying that he is vile. There’s no denying that he was awful to her. Anyway, regardless of what you think of her, which that’s a whole other can of worms. But I don’t know. This just deflated my entire morning when I heard this.


Ira Madison III Yeah, and it’s. There’s nothing about him that’s even hot right now.


Louis Virtel No, no. And actually, people are clowning on him and like, you know, saying, oh, looks like Jack Sparrow, your aunt’s garage sale or whatever, things like that.


Ira Madison III But Jack Sparrow was attractive.


Louis Virtel That’s right.


Ira Madison III In the first season, Jack Sparrow was attractive. Like now he looks like Jack Sparrow. Left on an island, you know, for 20 years with no food or water. He looks like Caliban in The Tempest.


Louis Virtel Yeah, he looks like Caliban receiving his Kennedy Center honors 50 years later.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel I mean, what else is there to say about it? Come on, Rihanna. Come on. No one wants to see. Also, it’s like he’s putting she’s putting him alongside, like, similar you like, you know, he’s wanting this to fly. Who else is it? Sheryl Lee Ralph, too.


Ira Madison III Yeah, like. Like sexy people. Okay. Yeah, it’s. It’s also. Well, that, like, he’s one of those people who you can’t even tweet his name now without being swarmed.


Louis Virtel I can’t think of another person. Who is that who conjures that kind of reaction other than Michael Jackson. It is that literal. And to call that a reaction is understating it wildly. I just want to also say about Michael Jackson quickly, do you know what is so funny when somebody is dancing at like a party and they even 1% dance like Michael Jackson? It’s like stuff like there’s like a jerky thing. It’s so funny. It’s like the funniest thing you can do.


Ira Madison III Oh, so.


Louis Virtel Intense and, like, antisocial, kind of. Yeah.


Ira Madison III All right, well, those are the celebs who have disappointed us. Yeah, that’s with anybody else you’re disappointed with.


Louis Virtel Yeah. Come with me to the bounce where? It’s fun there.


Ira Madison III All right, we’re back. We’re joined by Jake Lacey.


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Ira Madison III It’s pretty funny.


Louis Virtel Yeah, I thought it was cute.


Ira Madison III Yeah, but I could see not getting it in print.


Louis Virtel That’s true. But I put the two dots over the E. I thought we were in it anyway.


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Ira Madison III Keep it as brought to you by Helix. I often like to wander the woods and stumble into the home of bears. Oh, I see. But let me tell you something. Sometimes their beds are just too hard or. Yeah, too soft, or just not just right. That’s why I only use Helix now for my sleeping needs.


Louis Virtel I’m so glad to hear that. Old Locks Helix Sleep is a premium mattress brand that provides tailored mattresses based on your unique sleep preferences. The Helix lineup includes 14 unique mattresses, including a collection of luxury models, a mattress for big and tall sleepers, and even a mattress made just for kids. So how will you know which Helix Mattress works best for you and your body? Take the Helix Sleep Quiz and find your perfect mattress in under 2 minutes and your personalized mattress is shipped straight to your door free of charge. I had one of these in my house. It was rolled up in a tube. I don’t know how. What NASA technology they use to bundle this thing up. But I cut it open and it unraveled right in perfect position on my mat. It unraveled right in perfect position on my bed frame. It was like a stunt. Anyway, everybody is unique and everyone sleeps differently. That’s why Helix has several different mattress models to choose from, each designed for specific sleep positions and feel preferences.


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Louis Virtel And he was in the desert, which is such a strange place. You would think the sand would be soft enough.


Ira Madison III Yeah, I think you. When you part the Red Sea, you know, like, it’s. It’s really comfortable to walk on.


Louis Virtel Oh, sure. You’re like, I got to sit down. The sea is all part it.


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Ira Madison III You know him from roles in the Office Girls High Fidelity, where he plays a perfectly nice person and then you know him from roles like Carol the White Lotus and now a friend of the Family where he is an asshole. So we’re delighted to welcome it. Keep it, Jake Lacy. To find out. Which one are you?


Louis Virtel Yes. Solve this for us.


Speaker 3 You know, I don’t think I’m as extreme as Shane and the White Lotus or. Or certainly not, Robert Burns told in a friend of the family. But but I’m probably like Fran on girls is honestly like closer. In retrospect maybe in hindsight than I. Then I want it to be you know.


Louis Virtel I want to say, by the way, that Jake Lacy has arrived and he’s wearing a Braves cap. That’s a Braves cap, right? I’m not an expert on this matter. Okay, great.


Speaker 3 But Boston.


Louis Virtel Red Sox, Boston. Okay. Moving on. It’s Boston.


Ira Madison III And sweatshirt.


Louis Virtel And you seem like a quintessential Jake Lacy character right now. I just want as much as you live in the role, so to speak, but not not the not the bird’s told one, but the other ones.


Speaker 3 I love, like I love style or I like men’s wear. But I also feel like they’re at my truest sense, like this is just me, you know? And like, any time I put on too much of a thing, it’s like when a little kid, like, wears their dad’s, like, work clothes. You know, I look like I’ve put on a thing to go, like, oh, boy, that normal, just average guy thinks he’s really something, huh? So ultimately, as much as I go, like, oh, this double breasted cashmere, I love it at, like, live for it. But almost every day, jeans and the t shirt. I went into a wonderful store, Drake’s years ago, and I was like, I’m going to get this tie in the socks. And I’ve been in there a handful of times and the kid was working. The counter was like, I’ll sell you these. But I’ve never seen you walk in this store in an Oxford. In a time when you’re in here, it’s a hoodie and jeans like, you know, I’ll gladly cellulaires, but I don’t know what what you’re doing outside of here where these are obvious.


Louis Virtel This guy was onto your denial. He’s the. Go ahead and own this shirt. Who knows if you’ll ever see it again in your closet? Yeah.


Speaker 3 That was, like, the most seen by some guy who had seen me twice in the store. I was like, Oh, that cuts deep.


Ira Madison III I guess. Well, you know, your boss said you look ready to host parts of America as what you are. You’re quite right. Yes, sir.


Speaker 3 Me?


Ira Madison III That’s right. Right here. Also, you live in Connecticut now, don’t you?


Speaker 3 Yes. I don’t know if it’ll stick, but that’s we’ve been here for a year. I lived in Brooklyn for a long time and got a couple of kids. And it was like, oh, it’d be nice to have a little more like a backyard, you know, like room to roam. And I don’t know that will stay where we are, but it is nice to the lifestyle is very nice.


Ira Madison III So I have two friends who live in Connecticut. They left New York to do that, too. And I’m just you have you already are presenting your Boston identity and then you had a Brooklyn identity. So like, what is Connecticut like for you?


Speaker 3 Well, I used to wrap like a Sox cap in the city and get no love, you know, understandably, because, like, if you wear a Yankees cap in Boston, I just like you up as quick and as I can, you know? So I was like, I know I’m like a cop on a platform. One time I walked by and he was like Boston Sox, and I was like, Oh, right. Like, good stuff. And just like stone face, you know, like there was no kind of camaraderie and a mutual hatred. He was just like, move it along. So I always grew up in the Sox and my wife, I think, says it the best where she’s like, I want to be the most basic person I know. Like I don’t want more basic friends, you know what I mean? Like. So in Brooklyn, I felt like that was possible. You know, where I was like, I’m a I’m the preppy is the most average basic dude I know. That’s fine. And you know, and you go to the burbs, it’s a little different, you know, they’re like, Oh, we’re all basic white guys out here.


Ira Madison III So I’m a victory project. So, so that’s cool.


Speaker 3 Yeah.


Ira Madison III I never thought.


Speaker 3 About, like, can we buy in here for the next 40 years or so? Was like stopping off point. And then we figure out, you know, like we still go into Brooklyn all the time. Like, I still get my kids haircut in there, you know what I mean? Like it’s got, you know, too attached.


Louis Virtel Now, it’s speaking of the suburbs. I guess this would technically be a suburbs. It’s very Americana where friend of the family is set. But in the show, if people don’t know, it’s a peacock show where you play a neighbor to a family of a Colin Hanks at a park, one of the parents in that family. And they have a daughter whom you kidnap. And there’s an entire series of ways you manipulate her. And it’s really shocking to watch. And it’s also based on a real story. But something that stands out to me about your performance is there is something extremely familiar in the suburban creepiness of your character. I was saying beforehand I wanted to tell Ira I didn’t get a chance to. You remind me of Dan White from Milk, the guy who kills Harvey Milk and George Mosconi. And there’s something. I don’t know. There’s something so specific about like a guy who thinks on some level he is upstanding as he does all these horrible things. And I was wondering what into what went into becoming this real life person.


Speaker 3 You know, we talked a lot about. His place in that community and and that in this era. And then the circumstances of you know that that I think innocence and this kind of trusting nature and naivete that came with being in Idaho in the seventies, in this LDS community, and that if you’re like the new guy in town, you can kind of define your place in this community if you are of a certain mindset. And that I would continually frame it along with, you know, Rebecca Gregg, who did the costume, was just wonderful, wonderful person to work with. But he thinks he’s like Steve McQueen. He thinks he’s like Danny Ocean. You know, it is like he’s living this other life that he’s like, I’ve been to the outside and I’ve come back and you don’t even know what’s out there. You know, that he’s this kind of in his mind is like a rogue, bad ass leading man kind of thing. And and that if you tell enough people, that’s who you are, some of them believe you. And so he is both playing within the framework of what’s acceptable as a mormon father and a member of the church and a member of the community and a husband. And and then at the same time is also.


Ira Madison III Uh.


Speaker 3 In the way he dresses and the way he carries himself, kind of letting, you know, like, I’m other, I’m out here on the fringe, I’m exciting, I’m different, I’ve seen the world. And that starts to create a space where as he does things that are, you know, uncomfortable for others, he’s in a community where people don’t speak up and say something and say, like, why are you why are you in my yard raking my leaves? You know, that he frames out as like, I’m a good neighbor, I’m helping out. And the reality is that he’s like breaking down boundaries so that when he breaks down horrific boundaries, it’s normalized or that it’s normalized enough that people don’t say anything. So I think that, you know, that’s a rambling, winding answer. But that was the the way in, I think, toward creating a space where he could. Take what he wanted and sort of flourish under the radar. In an otherwise normal seeming town and community. I hope that answers the question.


Louis Virtel It does, yes. Oh, definitely. I’m in it. Yes.


Ira Madison III Of what I did, what I actually think is sort of the similarity between that and even the White Lotus, it’s about they’re both observations of sort of societal norms. And when you think of like true crime, too, and growing up in the suburbs, as you know, Louis and I both said, well, I grew up more in the city in Milwaukee, but the the sort of norms that you have and when you watch things like this, like how do people get away with things like this, there is this idea that get out, everyone is in it. There’s sort of correct place, you know, and no one is no one is crazy. Like in a place like this, if you’re in an enclave like they’re afraid of the big city, people in that time would be. But they think that the suburbs, you know, like you’re safe here. And then I think of like white lotus like I don’t I hate it your character in parts. But I also agreed with your character parts because there was sort of this idea that you should just go along with big lie to or things being wrong with like at a hotel or something on vacation. But then you breaking from the norm and being like, Wait, no, some of this is crazy and I should be angry, you know?


Speaker 3 Yeah. But you know, in terms of the White Lotus, like, I think what Mike does so brilliantly is that hopefully you see. What everyone wants and what they’re coming up against and in some ways coincide with their needs and wants, but not with how they carry themselves and the things they do. You know, like when we were doing Press for White Lotus, I feel like we’d get a little like when I’d be like, you know, Shane’s right. He paid for a room and he didn’t get it. You know, people are like, Oh, that’s sort of fun. And I was like, Oh, for real. Like that dude paid for something, and then a guy lied to him about it. And when he called him on it, the guy lied again, you know, like he then goes crazy in terms of obsessing over it instead of like enjoying his honeymoon. But at the core of it like that, I paid an extreme amount of money for a very nice thing and then didn’t get it. And if I had paid, I mean, like, like in reality, I asked Dave Renard, who was the creative producer on White Lotus, and I was like, when we were filming at the hotel, I was like, What are these rooms go for? In reality, it was like this. It’s like $20,000 a night. I was like, if I had paid.


Ira Madison III $20,000 a night.


Speaker 3 For ten days and someone was like, What’s that like? Are you are you fucking kidding me? You’re like, No, no, you could buy a house for the amount that I’m spending here for a week. Like, given that the give me the thing I paid for, man, you know, I.


Ira Madison III Mean, most people just admit how angry they get over $20, a minor inconvenience. So I get it. I got it. You know, I think, you know, people asking you that question would sort of be like they don’t want to admit times that they’ve gotten angry.


Speaker 3 I think in a way it’s like the flipside is true with a friend of the family in which. You know, the whole the whole point from certainly Jan’s perspective. I mean, real life gives perspective is saying like silence is the thing that that perpetuates this. The fact that multiple people along the way and as you see I think by episode. Seven. You realize or come to find out that the church knew the church child had come to bat, that Berchtold had attempted to be inappropriate and intimate with Nicole, the daughter of the bishop, and she had called him on it. And when he was confronted, Berchtold admitted that he had this what he termed an affliction and was working on it and then asked for repentance. And because the tenets of the religion are such that forgiveness and repentance are foundational elements. They didn’t report it to the police or tell the virtual dobro bergs, even though he had already been assaulting Jan and admitted to it. This is before the first abduction. And so years later, now it comes out that they knew. And that story point isn’t to point the finger at the church as much as to say like this shame and discomfort and silence is the thing that allows predators to continue to prey on victims, on families, on children. So in terms of like this, sort of not just the discomfort in saying something, you know, on the extreme end, I didn’t get the room I wanted and and on an actual like life or death trauma kind of level. Not saying something when you know something’s wrong, you know, or when your gut tells you like it’s not right. That person, you know, touches people for too long. That hugs too long the way they look, the things you don’t like, the way they look at a child, the way it’s like, say something, you know? And Jan Jan, you know, real life current Jan is like it’s really hard to have those discussions when it’s someone close to you, which it usually is because no one wants to put Grandpa in jail. You know, I like the term that she says and I’m like, Yeah, it’s easy to go like the man lurking in the shadows, put them away. But when you go, like, my favorite softball coach. My favorite math teacher. My neighbor. You know, that’s a really hard thing to do.


Louis Virtel I think something that’s interesting about you is I feel and Ira indicated this, but your characters, I find often have big scenes where they express the indignity they’re in. And like White Lotus, even this current character, even though he’s a manipulator. I feel like you’re the kind of person who could watch something you’re not in and be like, Oh, that. That’s a role I could have done. Do you are you constantly watching things and thinking, Oh, that’s a jerk, lazy role? Because I think even I could do that.


Speaker 3 But I’m like getting a hold of my reps and being like, I’m sorry, what?


Ira Madison III What’s it got?


Speaker 3 I. That’s funny. I don’t. The only times that I feel that way is when I’ve auditioned for something and I don’t get it. And then I see someone who got it and and either go like, wow, that was 100% the right call or, you know, have a little like fire of like.


Ira Madison III Come on, I want to come on.


Speaker 3 I want to go. Want to get in there. I would love that. Like. I think. I mean, the most recent example that I can really think of is like before they made the bear, you know, before it was cast. Like, that script was out there and and it was sent my way, not as an offer, like, just to go like, hey, you’re probably too old for this and probably not the right type, but it’s out there. And if you want us to reach out to the creatives and see if they want to set up a meeting, and I read it and I was like, oh, man, like I’m not I’m not right for this, but this is so great. Like, I would love to, to meet on this. And then before that could even happen, Jeremy was cast and as soon as I heard it, I was like, That’s perfect. That’s so good. Like, that guy is great and he’s exactly right for this. And I can’t wait to see what he does with that. And, you know, that’s a wonderful feeling to like, I think material is good and then. Know enough of myself to go like I’m not the guy for that, you know? Like, I’m just. There’s also times where, like, you know, if you’re lucky or if I’m lucky, an offer for something or, you know, and it’s like. He’s intimidating just by stepping into the room. You’re like, No.


Ira Madison III No.


Speaker 3 My work. You know, the reason that, like, maybe this Shane works or a friend of the family is that, like. You know, look like a basic bro. And then whether that’s like I’m actually entitled douche or. You know, manipulative pedophile who is using that kind of seemingly ho hum. Blandness to my advantage. That ends up being more my sweet spot than like. Whoa. Look out. This guy’s going to crack skulls like this. You come to know what you’re. What your strength is or kind of where you can sit in the way of Bull Durham recently. And I was like, Let’s remake Bull Durham. Like, I’d like to be the Costner role five years from now, you know what I mean? Like just a lot of the Costner stuff. I’m like, I’d like to do that. I’d like to do Field of Dreams. I’d like to do, you know, like. I like what’s going on there.


Louis Virtel Well, that’s an awesome instinct to be like. I mean, I first of all, I love Susan and Bulgari. I’m great performance. But secondly, you’re right. Those are kind of movies that are like that up till like even ten years ago. I feel like everybody knew. And now I feel like you’d be hard pressed to find somebody who knows Bull Durham really well.


Ira Madison III It’s on Delta. I, I almost watched it on my flight back to L.A., but I watched Days of Thunder instead of because I love Tom Cruise. But Bull Durham is a kind of like the Kevin Costner movie archetype is also a thing that’s not around anymore.


Speaker 3 I feel like it’s almost too easy going. You know, like he as a presence is wonderful and. You know, like and I don’t know how to explain it. Like in Field of Dreams, when he goes into the feed store and he asks the other farmers, like your your era voice is out there, and then you hear voices. Ray And he’s like, No, no. Like he plays it so easy and grounded and and kind of gentle in a way that you get to kind of go along with him on the story. Now I feel like the expectation is for that to be a bit, you know, for it to be kind of geared up, to be like darker than it is. But there’s this kind of gentle man in that case, literally Midwestern like story and. And another baseball movie, but like. Passion for the beauty of the game of baseball. Yeah. I don’t know if that exists now or if it could exist. Like if there’d be an audience for it. Other than. For me, it’s like a nostalgia factor to go like turn back the clock. Let me just let me live 1991 for a minute. I’ll get back to. Will democracy survive? Oh.


Ira Madison III I mean, that character isn’t even really a lead, I would say, in like TV’s so much anymore. It’s sort of fitted to your roles. I would say, you know, you’re you you’re opposite a lot of really great women. You know. Yes, I mean, it does. Zoe Kravitz ghetto. It’s I like Mary Kay place. Yeah. I loved you in High Fidelity, you know. And like even the girls, I remember being like, I want this relationship to work out, you know? And I feel like. I don’t know, like. Nora Ephron probably would have enjoyed casting you.


Speaker 3 Oh, man.


Ira Madison III I think you’d be great in, like, lucky numbers. If you remember that movie.


Speaker 3 Yes, I do. Yes. I’ll take it. My friend feeds on from the White Lotus and worked with her. And she was like, she was she was incredible. She was the best. You know, she had a well, I’ll let him tell that story. But yeah, I, I, I would have loved that. Yes.


Louis Virtel Do you looking back over your some of your movie roles, first of all, being the Ricardos, there’s Carol, there’s a Diane which a movie more people need to watch which stars Mary Kay place as a mother kind of on the brink. And you’re her son who is not doing well at all. But do you have a favorite kind of moment acting alongside these like like the Titanic female performances, like often getting read the riot act in them, in fact.


Speaker 3 Uh. You know, there’s a scene in Diane that’s. You know, close to home for me. And I’m at a diner and I’m like a little kind of hometown cafe with Mary Kay and. I haven’t seen her since I got cleaned up. I’ve just kind of gone off off the radar for a bit and meet up with her and Kent Jones, who wrote and directed that had written a lovely. Peace there. You know, in the in the camp eating scene. And. And I was like, hey, man, can I just do. Can we do one? You know, I’ll keep some of this. And also kind of like moved around a lot when he was like have like what’s written. That’s fine and there’s just like. Mary Kay is so wonderful. And it was she’s like such a generous person to be with, you know, acting opposite and to spend time with and just talk. Just getting to say like. I think I say something about like, it’s just really wrong. It just really hurts, mom, you know? And like this, this kind of, like, frayed feeling when you’re coming out of a life of, like, active addiction and starting to like. But clouds, the fog starts to shake a little and you start to see and feel life again. And it’s a lot, you know, it’s a lot to be present to things that scene, you know. And she was so right there, you know what I mean? Like she was just entirely it’s so rare that you really, really get to be like with a person like that. Back then, it was wonderful. Yeah. So that one like, means a lot to me.


Ira Madison III They see you both are really great in that and I would say like it’s, it’s nice to see her in a dramatic role like that too. I feel like I would be on set constantly asking her about Private Benjamin, which I which I think is one of my top ten movies. Unfortunately, you know.


Speaker 3 He and Mary Kay had, you know, he’d admired her for years and years. And and and they were like judges at the Amherst Film Fest or something, you know, the Berkshire Film Festival. And they did it one year. And then the next year they were both back there and he’s so lovely. And she was like, you know, Mary Kay, I wrote a script for you. I could I give it to you, you know, and he’s a titan in his own right. And and she was like, absolutely. You know, and it’s just so wonderful that someone like her, who is a fantastic actor and has sort of had these supporting roles and every time it’s incredible for someone like Kent to go, like, I wrote this for you, I’ve seen what you can do. And I don’t know if, like, the world has gotten to see that. And I have this very personal story and I can we like find the middle together, you know, it’s just so cool. I think it’s so wonderful to go like. I don’t know. People write things for. Kevin Hart. I wrote this for you.


Ira Madison III You know what I mean? Like, you can’t run the world what you want to do, you know?


Speaker 3 Dwayne Johnson, I wrote this for you, but, like, I don’t think that people, like, knock on an actress over the age of 60 and say, hey, this is I’ve got this thing where I’d like you to lead the story. Like, I don’t think that happens. And, man, I do. Yeah. It wasn’t until I saw the movie that I was like, Oh, I get it. I felt like even making it, I was like, What are what are my girls here? What is this going to be? And then seeing it was like, Oh, my God, this is fantastic.


Louis Virtel Yes. Small but very existential movie and memorable to everybody who’s seen it. And I also just want to shout out that Mary Kay Place was amazing as the mother on Lady Dynamite, the Maria Bamford Netflix show. Let me throw that out there. But I’ve got a bomb on.


Speaker 3 Kimmel. Maybe Maria did like a five minute set. She’s never been on before. They have her on and she basically is like, my mom passed away six months ago. And, like, it’s remarkable. It’s like a perfect 5 minutes. So entirely her. But I mean, it’s just wonderful if you haven’t seen it. It’s so great. I think she’s remarkable. The special, special, special shows, though, because.


Louis Virtel Jake Lacy, thank you so much for being here. I will be thinking of you throughout the White Lotus, even though you are not were honest this season. And also I will be my my bones will continue to be chilled as I watch you on this peacock show.


Speaker 3 Awesome. Thank you for watching and for having me on. I appreciate it.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Very nice to meet you. Say good news podcast fans. You can get America’s number one late night show, The Late Show with Stephen Colbert as a podcast. The Late Show pod with Stephen Colbert. That’s right. You’ll get everything you love about The Late Show. From Stephen’s monologue to scintillating interviews with newsmakers and celebs delivered straight to your ears, you’ll hear from guests like Anderson Cooper, Kerry Washington, Secretary of Transportation Pete Budda, Judge. And gee, I wonder if my episodes on there.


Louis Virtel You’ll even discover some podcast exclusive moments you won’t see on TV, like extended interviews, throwback Colbert Classics, and Stephen even takes a few audience questions. Listen to the Late Show part with Stephen Colbert. Seven days a week available wherever you get your podcasts.


Ira Madison III Side note is very funny. They just refer to Pete, a judge as Secretary of Transportation, Buddha gender. Former child pop star Eric Carter died tragically at the age of 34 this weekend. While Selena Gomez has already received some backlash over her documentary My Mind and Me, which gives a vulnerable look into her own battles with mental health. So while the two former child stars have walk different paths, how has being thrust into the spotlight at such a young age affected the growth of young artists? And has it been worth it for so many of them? I mean. Could talk about Aaron first. That was really just it was a random gut punch because, you know, it’s I think that we’re obviously, you know, used to all the celebrities dying lately and well, we discuss them on the show but. It feels like a while since someone young that we sort of grew up on died so tragically and randomly.


Louis Virtel You know, it almost feels like the child star into adulthood. Death thing is a trope of the past, like something that we would have seen in the eighties and nineties a lot, really. But yet he’s one of these people like you were aware he was estranged from his family and also like he would do things like pop up on only fans. And you would also see him. First of all, every time I went to Gay Pride in Chicago, he was performing there. So it’s not like he wasn’t sort of like giving it his all as a performer, you know, like.


Ira Madison III One thing about working.


Louis Virtel Gigging, etc..


Ira Madison III Yeah, they do want candy.


Louis Virtel Right? No, he he said, here’s my demo. Take me to market days. But at the same time, I struggle a lot with like, his death is tragic. Nobody should die at 34. But I guess as a Karen carpenter, Stan, who also died around the same age. Something about me cringes at the. Just looking at someone’s short life as a tragedy. I don’t know. Like her brother, for example, Richard Carpenter, says, you know, she had a lot of joy in her life, too. And I don’t think he’s papering over the hardships she faced either. You know, a part of me wants to say, like, let’s find the ways that he enjoyed life and also celebrate those. I’m sure that was evident. Those ways were evident to us. He’s somebody who, you know, was performing up until, you know, recently.


Ira Madison III So that’s a good way to look at that because I mean, you know. Even the highlights that he had in his career are more than most people will achieve ever.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III So just like, yeah, being a global superstar or being on TV or having fans loved you are the highlights in someone’s life when they are a pop star, you know, despite the bad things that come with it, like those are those are really big highs and that’s why people do it.


Louis Virtel Right. Right. Exactly. But I was touched by what Hilary Duff posted. Also Hilary Duff. Good poster. I just in general have become more of a fan of hers thanks to things like Instagram.


Ira Madison III Yes, she writes really sweet things like that. But she’s also, like funny and has a sense of awe about her. Realistic?


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Can she go? Manage Reese Witherspoon social media.


Louis Virtel Yeah, that gets tough for me occasionally. Also remind me to bring up Reese Witherspoon during my keep it this week. It doesn’t involve her the way you think, but.


Ira Madison III Oh, okay.


Louis Virtel But. So anyway. Aaron Carter’s death. Extremely sad, but I hope we think about it dimensionally. What is going on with Selena Gomez right now?


Ira Madison III Also, this is a thing, too, where her documentary, My Mind and Me was released on Apple and Alice Keshishian, who directed Truth or Dare directed Yes.


Louis Virtel And also co-wrote W.E.. What Reigns with Madonna anyway?


Ira Madison III Which is why, because this film involves a controversy with W.E., but not the movie. The the the charity group.


Louis Virtel Oh, right. Yes. Not the same.


Ira Madison III Thing. Yeah. So, you know, he’s just he’s just following. I think he’s just following pop stars around who like the letters W and E.


Louis Virtel You would think that would be a very niche circuit, but it’s working out for him.


Ira Madison III Okay, Oprah’s Next OC.


Louis Virtel My favorite pop star, Oprah.


Ira Madison III Oh, God.


Louis Virtel We she comes on at Glastonbury. My arms are in the air. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Oh, because we TV’s the enemy of oxygen.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III But here’s the thing about this documentary. You talk about the highs that people get from being a pop star and then, you know, the dark effects of it. I watched this and I’m like, girl, get off the stage. Yeah, stuff. For the large part of it, it really seems like she hates her job.


Louis Virtel Which I which, by the way, I kind of Stan, you know. Of course. Yeah. You know, Eddie. And you know how every day kind of stands the movie Vox Lux, even though it’s pretty bad. You know, the thing we like is the rottenness of the stardom. You know, the thing in the stardom that’s like, oh, I have to deal with. It’s not that you have to deal with fans. It’s that you have to deal with Delirious fans.


Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, I think we’ve talked about this before also that, um, this old Madonna interview where she talks about how she liked with the fans came out. But the fans who came out were, Oh, it’s the ugly one, just like some old interview of hers. So that ideas.


Louis Virtel Yeah food for thought it is kind of loser B I just think it’s loser behavior to go up to a celebrity in general most times because I think it’s an act of narcissism. It’s, I see you all the time, but you never see me. So I’m taking advantage of this moment to get in your face and know it and let you know that this is a two way relationship. Meanwhile, it’s not. And also, if everybody did that, they would have no time to themselves. So I fucking hate that.


Ira Madison III I would actually say that I like approaching people who. Like if you’re a writer or, you know, like, so people who, like, would even, like, talk to us, right? Not not to be meta about this show, but if you approached for the most part, like people who listen to our show are smart. So when they approach us, they usually have something to say in response to something that we’ve said.


Louis Virtel Oh, I would actually say that is always the case for me.


Ira Madison III Yes. Yes. Which is far different from approaching a mega pop star. Which what what do you have to say to Madonna? Besides, no. I dance in my bedroom to borderline, like, okay, millions of people do that.


Louis Virtel No. I mean, what still buzzes in my head is when we had Peter Paige on the show and I we asked, you know, Matt, I bet people come up to you all the time every day and talk about how you were instrumental in their coming out. And he’s like literally every day. And it’s that’s a lot for one person to take, you know, it’s like y it’s like you’re putting a burden on them, you know, like handle my trauma, basically, you know? And in the case of someone like Madonna, I remember I had a friend once who was like, well, I wouldn’t go up to a celebrity, but if I saw Madonna, I would have to figure out why. Just one more gay person. No.


Ira Madison III No. I think that reminds you of something I tweeted as well. Asbury died. I was just like, because everyone’s, you know, like Mercy Road and like these other things that meant so much to gays. And I was like, How many fucking coming out stories do you think Angela Lansbury has had to hear in her life? Almost 100 years of living, but this was probably tired of Fagots she sees what of approaching. She’s like, Do not bring up Cabot Cove. Yeah, don’t break. Like, Bam, I’ve had enough.


Louis Virtel She she’s like, you know, it’s like the prompt or whatever. And Blithe Spirit is like, Can I just have a moment to talk about how hard it was for me? She’s like, I got to get this line right and I’m wearing it, so let’s move out of.


Ira Madison III But she the one thing that actually seems to light Selina up, though, is her fans. And I think by the end of it, you get to an idea that she loves connecting with people. You know, her mental health struggles are very real and sort of harrowing in the documentary. I wish we got more of them, actually. It sort of starts when she has a psychotic break and the revival tour ends in 2016 and then we sort of jump forward to like 2019, even post, you know, the kidney transplant, you know, so it’s just sort of like you miss these large chunks and you really hear her talking about it and there’s, you know, like a bunch of filler where she goes back to her hometown and it’s like walking through her school and talking to, like, old neighbors and bangs. And I’m like, okay, that like that’s what an MTV interview used to be for, right? Like, that’s that’s not that’s not something that we meet in a documentary on. You must move on from that. But she there’s another moment, too, where she’s just sort of like talks about how much philanthropy sort of means to her. And I actually believe it when she says that, you know, when she’s done with all of this, she’s going to mostly work on philanthropy. There’s actually a moment where she the best moments of the documentary are where Alex gets the moments that he got and like Truth or Dare from Madonna were so mean and sort of like, flippant with an interviewer. Or she leaves an interview and she’s like, That was the dumbest fucking question. I’m like, I hate that shit. Like, never make me do that again. You know? There’s a moment where someone sees that she talks about like I was being asked interesting questions, like the person who asked or what she’d want to do besides her career. And she says philanthropy. And then the interview is just sort of like, That’s great. Thank you. And then Selena like, leaves pissed off because she’s like, there’s no follow up to that whatsoever. It was it was just like, boom, getting through the questions. And so that was interesting.


Louis Virtel No, I like seeing that too, because I feel like. A lot of people just expect these people to be perpetually, quote unquote grateful, which means. You don’t have an opinion about anything, basically. You just have to be up there and loving everything that happens to you. And yet people aren’t unsympathetic to famous.


Ira Madison III Megastars.


Louis Virtel For one thing. You know? Yes. And also just not not taking 2 minutes to think about what is actually happening to them as all of this, quote unquote, wonderful stuff is happening.


Ira Madison III And also like. Even on the concept of being grateful. It’s. They give us a lot too. So, yeah, I think people underestimate how much. A song an album does for you. That’s sort of why I always really get mad at, you know, like obviously conservatives and people like that or people who just sort of like. Sort of not like a film or movie or an actor or like a musician. It’s just sort of like, do you know how much movies and the TV that we watch and the music we consume like. Get us through our lives. It’s just very weird to think of it as superfluous and just be, like, not grateful for what artists give us. I mean, you mentioned Madonna, you know, Michael like Michael Jackson, you know, like growing up on music, listening to it every day that does something new to you. It does something to your mental health like it gives you endorphins or what the fuck ever like music changes people’s lives. So it’s very weird to then be like, well, you don’t do anything for people.


Louis Virtel Yeah, yeah. Right, exactly. No. How is it superfluous? If I want to spend all my time thinking about it and talking about it and listening to it, you know, it’s just like, you’re right, it’s more than a leisurely activity. It’s like, you know, when something is the quote unquote soundtrack of your life that’s beyond meaning. That’s like your way of life, you know?


Ira Madison III Yeah. It’s how you connect with your it’s like how you remember friends you have from high school. It’s how people remember breakups. It’s how people remember the passings of family members like music means a lot. So, yes, I, I connect with the thing of like, I connect with the idea that perhaps I shouldn’t feel like they are should be more grateful for like the fans that they have because they do a big service. But I will say it’s interesting seeing Selena sort of flippant and like sort of funny in this documentary, but then remembering how humorless she was during that like Saved by the Bell episode about her kidney was didn’t even make fun of me.


Louis Virtel It was just a one off joke, right? It was like one character said something and then they moved right along. It wasn’t like the episode was about that.


Ira Madison III It was about how social media helps people remember things now in the way that like, they can’t recall facts. And by the end of the episode, like because all the kids phones get taken away in the episode, by the end of the episode, like when the school devolves into pandemonium, someone had scrawled on the wall, like, Does Selena Gomez even have kidneys? Funny. Yeah. Yeah, it’s funny. Which brings us to this week where, yes, the most humorless people on the Internet are unfortunately Selena writers cylinders. I never know how to pronounce that.


Louis Virtel It’s a tough word.


Ira Madison III Selena towards.


Louis Virtel So yes. Cylinders. Yes. Senators with an Eleanor.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Because there. Because when the documentary came out, Selena thanked Taylor Swift as being her only friend in the industry. And then Francia, the actress friend of hers who gave her her kidney in 2019, responded interesting on like an E news story and then unfollowed Selena, which I think that is so and that’s so ghetto on her part, to be honest. I’m sorry. Like publicly decided to feud with Selena is why to me.


Louis Virtel And also it’s like I just feel like it’s an offhand comment. Like maybe if she’s just talking about other superstars, you know, like you might think, Oh, Selena’s friends with all of these people at the top, Adele, etc.. And it’s just no, really, it’s just Taylor Swift. I just didn’t think it was that damning a quote or it did. Maybe it did make me think, oh, the girl she got the kidney from, she hates her.


Ira Madison III Okay. I mean, like, we’re not all sitting around talking about bring it on all or nothing. Francia, I’m sorry. Okay?


Louis Virtel She was on grown ish.


Ira Madison III Yes. And Secret Life of the American Teenager, which we talked about, like, the other week. But come on, girl.


Louis Virtel No, but I’m still I’m talking more about Bristol Palin on Secret Life of the American Teenager.


Ira Madison III Exactly.


Louis Virtel Her you know what I mean?


Ira Madison III It was I can’t get. Sort of being upset with her. If you feel like, you know, you’re not getting your proper due or something because I don’t know. Giving someone a kidney is a is a big ass deal. Imagine you have a falling out with a friend who gave a kidney to. It’s like they’re not talking to you anymore, but you’re literally like walking or part of you is walking around inside of them every day.


Louis Virtel You thought you were being philanthropic, but in fact, your organs have betrayed you. Now they’re.


Ira Madison III Yeah, yeah. It’s like Selena’s Alicia Witt in Urban Legend.


Louis Virtel A reference that should come up way more often. Did I bring up Alisha Witt just last week?


Ira Madison III Did you maybe.


Louis Virtel I’m try to think of what the context was. Oh, so oh, we were with our lovely guest host. We were talking she thought the poster behind me was Sandy. Dennis. Ah, pardon me. She thought the poster was Cybill Shepherd. And I was like, Well, this alert was great on Seattle. Anyway, now you’ve heard backstage gasps this. That’s what goes on backstage. I keep it.


Ira Madison III A lot of talk about Sandy.


Louis Virtel Dennis Yes, right. Forcing it. Jake Lacy almost had to have a conversation with us about it. Yeah.


Ira Madison III But at that moment I thought Frankie is response sort of like wild. But I will say it is funny that she’s picking a fight with Selena online. Over. A kidney. It’s funny, you know, and in the end, you try to make a joke about it. And so we just Farhan serves as the rabbit. How could you make fun of this? It’s such a serious thing. It’s like she’s alive.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Also she to respond. Interesting when your kidney is just like the gulp that you can hear as she types that.


Ira Madison III Anyway I think it’s I think it’s a funny story but I also do think it’s while to just sort of you know comment interesting on the story go we didn’t need the beef to be public.


Louis Virtel Yes. I’m going to say charitably, she maybe wanted us all to have a laugh. And I’ve got to be honest, I had one, so.


Ira Madison III All right. When we’re back, it’s time for Keep. And we’re back with our favorite segment of the episode. It’s Keep It. Louis, what do you have to say about Reese Witherspoon?


Louis Virtel Oh, that’s right. I tease my keep it I love when I’m theatrical may keep it this week is about a list I otherwise support which is TVLINE did a list of the 50 best HBO characters ever. And I just want to say, first of all, there are always so many lists of TV shows or movies or whatever. Writing characters, to me, feels a bit more productive because it’s more fun to compare them ultimately. Whereas I feel like with TV shows all together, that’s like a matter of taste. Like, why would you compare The Sopranos to Sex and the City? Like, why would you say one is better than the other? They’re not the same thing at all. Whereas characters and performance is a little bit more fun to size up, you know? That’s why those categories in the Oscars are the most fun.


Ira Madison III So your mantra is characters welcome.


Louis Virtel That’s right. Which I always forget. Is that USA or TBS?


Ira Madison III I think of the USA.


Louis Virtel Okay. Yeah, I never get it right. But on this list of the 50 greatest HBO characters ever, which by the way, they’re doing because HBO is 50 years old, I had no idea it went back that far. But Samantha Jones is number three on the list and. Miranda Hobbes is 30 something on the list and Carrie Bradshaw is not on the list. We need to be reversing this narrative about Carrie Bradshaw being, I guess, bad or selfish or whatever the narrative character is. I think she remains one of the best female characters ever and realistic like people are find like character defects in women to be criminal or like. If we don’t point them out, we’re endorsing them. And therefore they’re making us look bad because they get to be bad people and we don’t want them to be like. Anyway, Carrie Bradshaw is the best part of Sex and the City. And I say this as somebody who identifies as Miranda Samantha Cost in my personal life. I just think SJP gave. A performance that was so casually dimensional. She was so born to do it every role she did up until that point, including the wacky character ones. We’re leading to this character. I really think she packs a whole bunch of crazy qualities into a character that is otherwise relatable, and she should be in the top three, along with Tony Soprano and Omar from The Wire.


Ira Madison III I love Carrie Bradshaw. And I think that what’s interesting is I view her in the way that you would sort of view like a Tony Soprano. I mean. Well, just read Emily Nussbaum’s New Yorker essay about Sex and the City, which is still great to this day. But would would people call themselves like I’m a Carrie? You know, I don’t think they ever mean it in the way that I mean it when I say Carrie. I mean, as a person who’s a writer, but who’s also sometimes self-involved and also ruins relationships with men.


Louis Virtel Right. Again, we can’t help that. Aidan was boring. Sorry. I know you wanted her to end up with Aidan, but I’m sorry. How many questions about carpentry do you have? Me?


Ira Madison III Zero eight. It was boring and an asshole.


Louis Virtel Yeah, he. He had a sort of.


Ira Madison III He took her back. Really? Where it just seemed like he just wanted to punish her. Was wild.


Louis Virtel Ebright. And then, of course, we ran into him in Abu Dhabi, which I consider the nightmare of nightmares. Like, how did my ex find me here?


Ira Madison III And now he’s going to be on end just like that, which I think I’m finally going to finish the first season. Enough people have told me that it’s a enjoyable, bad watch.


Louis Virtel I think I watched everything but one or two episodes. I mean I mean, there’s truly a whole episode of that show where she’s like, Do I like my new amazing apartment? I can’t tell, but I will return to it.


Ira Madison III Hmm. All right. And where’s Reese Witherspoon on the list?


Louis Virtel Oh, her character is on the list, and it’s somewhere in the thirties. And I don’t believe Nicole’s character from Big Little Lies is on the list either. Which upsets me.


Ira Madison III Hmm. Where’s Renata?


Louis Virtel Right. And also that somebody who would be reading the list and she would be printing it out and showing it at a PTA meeting.


Ira Madison III I don’t even see Renata on this list. Wow.


Louis Virtel Michael Ausiello wants to hurt us. That’s what’s going on.


Ira Madison III Also, Schillinger is 49. He’s the only character from Oz on there, too.


Louis Virtel Oh, right, right, right.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm. There’s a lot going on with this list.


Louis Virtel Well, let’s start a fight. Let’s get in the comments and be cruel.


Ira Madison III Spoiler alert. Michael. Michael Ausiello is our enemy now.


Louis Virtel I’m really looking forward to that movie. I hope it’s good. Ira, what’s your keep it this week?


Ira Madison III Why keep it this week? Goes to keep it alum Karamo.


Louis Virtel Oh, no, I did not know we were doing this. I don’t have the emotional bandwidth. Go ahead.


Ira Madison III So he has a talk show now.


Louis Virtel Which already I’m emotionally distressed.


Ira Madison III Go ahead. Have you seen clips from it? It’s basically it’s Maury and it’s basically a Maury spinoff because for a period, Karamo hosted a series of Maury episodes and now it has sort of the same fans. It’s on after Maury. You know, it seems like it’s a successor to take over the Maury Mantle. And it’s very much. You know, therapy buzzwords like accountability and, you know, like, take this step with me, you know, like. Like shit. That means nothing but works for some people.


Louis Virtel And also, it’s a it’s the same variety as what he does on Queer Eye, where he’s like, oh, you’re feeling like you’re not good at your job or you’re not getting the dates you want. Well, what if you did this tightrope course? That does not help me.


Ira Madison III Yeah, you know, it helps me when Beyoncé says, release your job, release the.


Louis Virtel Trade.


Ira Madison III Yeah, that’s that’s definitive. And it’s not, you know, playing Legends of the Hidden Temple so you can get to in an emotional place with your father.


Louis Virtel Right? No. Break My Soul should be the fifth Queer Eye Guy.


Ira Madison III Yes, there are. Although, famously, I think all silver monkeys have daddy issues. But we’ll get to Legends of the Hidden Temple on another show.


Louis Virtel Well, you need to get to the heart room with that one. Okay, go ahead.


Ira Madison III So on his show, he invited Chef P, um, the pink sauce lady, as she’s known. And I don’t know if you know this saga, but basically she’s a private chef in Miami and chef P, her TikTok username. She created this sort of pink sauce, which is a lot like, you know, when you get the bottled thousand island sauce from like a Chick fil A or like a in and out, you know, it’s like that kind of sauce, but it’s pink. She would put it on all her food and tiktoks and really sort of like tease. What does this taste like? But she wouldn’t tell people what it tasted like, just that it was good. Just see, they’d have to buy it. So people were buying it this summer in droves from Tick Tock, which is a great way to sort of like tea is a business, you know. Here’s the problem. She was shipping this stuff without any sort of like ice, like freezing the product or anything. And so people were getting, you know, this, like, spoiled shit to their home, which tasted nasty. Not FDA approved. When she was accused of not doing things FDA approved, she had like another video where she was like, I’m not selling medical products. You know, like the FDA isn’t involved. So this is what we’re dealing with here.


Louis Virtel This is this is a living poison ivy. She is like, I’m getting this venom into your home and you’re going to consume it and feel awful. Go ahead.


Ira Madison III So basically, a customer, someone who criticized the pink sauce on their own, TikTok or YouTube. The pink lady accused her of like harassing her, like ruining her business, you know, by being overly critical. Karamo brings them both onto his talk show to discuss the matter. Whose side do you think he was on? Oh, my God. What? He defends the pink lady because it’s all this sort of bullshit about, like, you know, not tearing each other down, you know, at the expense of accountability like that. Like that, I feel like, is a general mantra. And I get supporting other people, supporting a small business owner. But she was shipping people rancid products. She’s allowed to be dragged, you know, and the idea that, you know, basically this customer was made to feel like she was in the wrong and made Seth a victim was so wild that the episode was pulled from YouTube. No way is pulled from YouTube white from the Internet. And then it resurfaced on Tik Tok, which is kind of hilarious because there’s a bunch of Gen Z people now on to talk being like, Who’s Karamo?


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III And I did not know I was that removed from the general consciousness. But I will say there was the big splash for the first three years of Queer Eye. And now when I see a new subsequent season or like three episode thing that they filmed is on Netflix, I’m like, Oh, that’s still on.


Louis Virtel Right? I mean, I’m sure it’s still like a sensation for whatever the mobile viewership are older than millennial viewership that watches it. But first of all, the only Pink Lady I support is the seventies variety acts that would be on like The Gong Show and also, of course, the Pink Ladies of Grace. Not all of them, but most of them Didi Conn. That’s what I’m talking about.


Ira Madison III But.


Louis Virtel Yeah, what a perplexing story. Karamo, to me, has this problem of, like, wanting to seem not all knowing, but like moral and not having the self-awareness to realize he’s not done the math on this at all. Like he’s coming to simple conclusions that missed a huge point.


Ira Madison III Yeah. And a lot of people are tagging him, wanting a response to this episode, being pulled any sort of apology. And it’s pretending it it’s pretending it didn’t exist. So it’s this it’s a very funny clip if you find it, but maddening because it really paints this awful business woman as a victim.


Louis Virtel That’s really shocking. I mean, just to be like, can you get this label right? Can you prove you’re not? Again, there.


Ira Madison III Are many spellings on the label. You know, it’s it’s just. I get it. And it’s all rooted in this. You know, we should all lift each other up. We should all support one another. I mean, that was the whole thing with the Sean Spicer stuff, right on Dancing with the Stars. You know, like we should support one another, but some people don’t need to be supported. And if you want to be supported, you should, like, do your job correctly. I don’t know. Yeah, right. Not try to kill people.


Louis Virtel Do the bare minimum of your job.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Yeah.


Louis Virtel Sick. All right, well, that was really, really enraging. I’m almost sorry you even brought it up, but that’s a good.


Speaker 3 Keep it.


Ira Madison III Thank you. Well, that’s our show this week.


Louis Virtel We ended up covering a lot, namely what’s going on at Le Bon Soir, which is.


Ira Madison III You know, we got to do we got to do keep it. Live from the bonds LA walking around.


Louis Virtel When you when you hear my version of come to the supermarket in old Peking you are going to fall out.


Ira Madison III Listeners, if you know the Bon Soir is still around or what it is now in the village, please let us know. Also, I have one last parting question for our listeners. I watched Rachel getting married on my plane, and I, for some reason in my brain, had the notion that when she leaves the salon after the fight with her sister, that Anne Hathaway shows up with pink hair and she does not.


Louis Virtel Know she has the dark hair. Yeah, it’s that kind of jagged late night. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Yeah, she does not. And then I was like, maybe my brain was crossing wires from when she dies, Kate Hudson’s hair blue and bride wars. But I need to know if I’m thinking of another film work and Hathaway has pink hair or if I’m thinking of another film. What does a dramatic pink hair reveal in it?


Louis Virtel Yeah. I’m sorry not to be able to solve that for you. I feel like that should come really easily. To me, it’s not right now, but I’m great movie. And also Debra Winger in that movie Unforgettable.


Ira Madison III I feel like I’m I hope it’s a real thing and I hope it’s not like that Mandela effect. Yeah it’s not one of those Mandela effect, things like that fake genie movie or whatever. Yeah.


Louis Virtel Berenstein bears spelled one way when it’s not spelled that way. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Anyway, listeners tell me if I’m going crazy or not.


Louis Virtel I’ll give you a head start.


Ira Madison III We’ll see you next week. Hooray for us. Keep it as a Crooked Media production. Our senior producer is Kendra James. Our producer is Chris Ward, our executive producer. It’s our IRA Madison, the third.


Louis Virtel And Louis photo.


Ira Madison III Our editor is Charlotte Landes and Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer.


Louis Virtel Thank you to our digital team, Matt DeGroot and Carmel Conine and Dillon Villanueva for our production support every week.