“The Gilded Rage” w. Amber Ruffin | Crooked Media
May 04, 2022
Keep It
“The Gilded Rage” w. Amber Ruffin

In This Episode

Ira and Louis discuss celebrities’ interpretations of Gilded Glamour at The Met Gala, Street Fighter characters, and Johnny Depp’s defamation trial. Plus, they revisit their gay adolescences with Heartstopper, The Real World Homecoming: New Orleans, and White Hot: The Rise & Fall of Abercrombie & Fitch. Also, Amber Ruffin joins to discuss late night writing for Seth Meyers versus The Amber Ruffin Show, writing the book for Some Like It Hot the musical, and more.


With our constitutionally protected right to abortion under attack, abortion funds are working nonstop to make sure people can still access (and afford) abortion.Visit votesaveamerica.com/roe to learn more, donate, and take action.







Ira Madison III: And we’re back to Keep It, with Ira and Louis.


Louis Virtel: I was going to say, what’s what’s this dynamic like? Are we comfortable now that it’s really just the two of us?


Ira Madison III: No one’s ever heard that before.


Louis Virtel: No, I know. This is a brand new concept to them. Wait, Ira and Louis just speaking? Will they reference a lot of things from the late 1990s?


Ira Madison III: Ugh, wow. What an episode to start off on. Right? We get rid of our woman.


Louis Virtel: Yes. And lo and behold, SCOTUS said, now’s our chance.


Ira Madison III: Yeah, Aida’s gone. Aida’s gone.


Louis Virtel: I don’t even mean to make rough jokes about this, but. Yes.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. We’ll leave that to Hysteria, cause I don’t none of my jokes about women are funny.


Louis Virtel: I have to say. I really love that. Specifically on this network. There are so many podcasts that have to take the brunt of that one, speaking seriously about things, but two kind of having to make jokes about really serious things, whereas we just make jokes about, oh, can you believe Sean Mendez dressed like Gaston like, that’s all we have to do.


Ira Madison III: And then there’s the show that has to make jokes about everything. Lovett or Leave it.


Louis Virtel: Oh right. Well, he’s my favorite stand up, as you know. So that’s his job.


Ira Madison III: But um I’m excited, you know, for our new whatever this is, era.


Louis Virtel: Yep. It’s like the moment in Destiny’s Child before they hire like Michelle, though, we’re just going to live in that era. I do not mean to compare Aida to Farrah Franklin, by the way. I did not mean to do that.


Ira Madison III: Wow. Wow. I’m trying to think of, like, trios that became duos.


Louis Virtel: Yeah. Does that exist? Well, there was a time when the Dixie Chicks, the two sisters, Martie Maguire and Emily Robison, released an album called Courtyard Hounds. And I did listen to it twice. I don’t know if that excites you in any way.


Ira Madison III: Absolutely does not. Maybe we’re just. Maybe we’re just Chippendale.


Louis Virtel: Oh, Rescue Rangers though.


Ira Madison III: Yeah.


Louis Virtel: Okay.


Ira Madison III: I mean, I think I think I’m probably Chip.


Louis Virtel: Who’s wearing the Hawaiian shirt in that scenario?


Ira Madison III: That’s Chip.


Louis Virtel: Okay. Yeah.


Ira Madison III: Dale is the more indiana Jones-y serious one.


Louis Virtel: Well, let’s talk about who can wear patterns. That’s you. So.


Ira Madison III: Yes.


Louis Virtel: Whereas I’m likelier to do a more solid, rugged approach, I think. You know, I think I treat my own life like I’m Tomb Raider. My life’s like a one player game. This is code for I don’t really date.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. I also think that Dale would be a good Halloween costume for you to mix into your repertoire of three.


Louis Virtel: Yeah, I have to tell you, I suck at Halloween, so I will take any recommendations. Last year I nailed it with Guile from Street Fighter, but that was the first time I really ever took a swing.


Ira Madison III: Mmmhmm.


Louis Virtel: Because you could buy it all on Amazon within 48 hours, like green tank, top army pants and dog tag. It was really simple to contrive.


Ira Madison III: And that I think people were shocked that you didn’t go as Kylie Minogue from Streetfighter.


Louis Virtel: Well, I do appreciate that. Well, actually, it’s a similar costume, really. It would be like a blue tank top or something, but obviously that’s yet to come. And also the problem the problem with streetfighter is a lot of the time, if you’re picking that as a Halloween costume, actually, you’re wading into cultural appropriation somewhat seriously. So those are two characters where it would be fine.


Ira Madison III: That’s fair. Streetfighter is a lot of different cultures that I do not think are maybe properly represented.


Louis Virtel: Are you saying?


Ira Madison III: Like Capcom.


Louis Virtel: Yeah, right. Yeah. I don’t think there was, like, an inclusion officer making sure everything was riding according to, you know, protocol.


Ira Madison III: There’s a lot of exoticism, there’s a lot of orientalism. There’s a lot of weird representations of, like, everyone from Africa has like stretchy arms and big hoop earrings.


Louis Virtel: I was going to say he’s that he’s from India, Dahlsim. And the the juxtaposition of yoga with I’m setting people on fire. I don’t know. I’m going to read up on that Encyclopedia Britannica article, but I don’t think those two things go together.


Ira Madison III: I think my actual favorite part of Street Fighter games is the background characters who like who have two two movements that they shift back and forth from and they’re just in the background cheering whenever, any fights happening. But then there’s also there’s just usually just a lot of like women with big breasts.


Louis Virtel: Oh, yeah.


Ira Madison III: A lot of, like, horny men. Like grabbing at them, too.


Louis Virtel: No, you’re exactly right. They kind of look like the inflatable things you see at a car dealership, and they’re, like, waving their arms and. Can you imagine just looking at a fight on the street, which is what this game is about, fighting on the street and just waving in the distance.


Ira Madison III: I’ve noticed that that is one of your favorite cultural references, by the way. Like, how many car dealerships do you drive by every day?


Louis Virtel: I’m from the unglamorous Midwest. So let me tell you, the answer is many and I used to live right by the Brand Boulevard of cars in Glendale. So it’s ingrained.


Ira Madison III: All right. Well, speaking of glamor. We’re going to talk about the Met gala this week.


Louis Virtel: Which I was paying attention and enjoying it and then it just fell right the fuck off, which I can’t remember in recent. Well I guess it’s like the Oscars, you know, it was just it was going it was going everything.


Ira Madison III: And then Will Smith stormed into the Supreme Court.


Louis Virtel: And slapped us back 50 years.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. Slapped abortion rights away. We will be talking about the Met gala, despite the insistence from, you know, self-important people online who think that we should only ever be talking about one thing at all times.


Louis Virtel: That was incredibly annoying. Again, did anybody say this about any sporting event that all the people should, quote unquote, leave the arena and go to DC or whatever people were saying it’s this. There’s this like resting shame about, honestly, famous women enjoying themselves. And then then people saying, well, they should stop what they’re doing and leave. It’s like you’re not saying this about literally any other thing. I don’t know why you’re doing this, but for whatever reason, you want these people to feel bad about themselves.


Ira Madison III: The restless shame, though, is also on the part of the person talking as well. But yeah, I feel like people also feel ashamed of themselves for caring about something that they consider is stupid. And so they have to reflexively sort of point out that they’re not being stupid by showing that, hey, I care about this thing that just happened, which obviously, you know, there was a leak from SCOTUS that they are making a decision to, you know, sort of get rid of Roe v Wade, a thing that also will not be going into effect until around June. It’s only a draft. But, you know, it’s sort of like ground zero here for all of our rights being taken away. But there is something about the fact that this news dropped in the middle of the night because it was a leak and so no one was anticipating this. So when people are getting mad that the Met gala is trending higher than, you know, this SCOTUS leak. Do you know how internet algorithms work? Something that just came out a second ago is not going to be trending higher and have more posts then something that people have been talking about all day.


Louis Virtel: Right. And all week. Right? You know, leading up to the Met gala. Yes. Also who even believes what they see on a trending bar. I don’t know about you, when I look at, well, I’m on Twitter, but like it will be like, guess what’s trending? Cate Blanchett. I’m like, no, it’s not. You just knew, I want to talk about that. They just throw up names now.


Ira Madison III: My favorite topic, Roe v Wade, is trending.


Louis Virtel: Yeah. The girls are lit.


Ira Madison III: So, yeah, we’re going to discuss the Met gala this week. We’re also going to talk about gay shit from our youth inspired by the new Netflix series Heart Stopper, which is sort of like brought up, I guess, feelings of, um, you know, gayness that we’ve had from when we were kids. You know what? We’re going to talk about the new Real World New Orleans reboot with one of our iconic gay heroes, Danny. And there’s this whole Abercrombie documentary out White Hot on Netflix as well, which also had me thinking about like, being gay in the Midwest in the late nineties, early 2000s. So a whole childhood trauma episode.


Louis Virtel: Yeah. Frost your tips put on those puka shells. Let’s roll.


Ira Madison III: And if that’s not enough, we are joined by the very delightful Amber Ruffin to talk about what it’s like writing for a late night show, hosting your own late night show, and also writing the book for a Broadway musical based on some Like It Hot.


Louis Virtel: Is that not mind blowing of all the leaps this person could take? She, like, jumped right to Tony frontrunner.


Ira Madison III: All right. We’ll be right back with more. Keep it.


Louis Virtel: [AD]


Ira Madison III: Monday night, the Metropolitan Museum of Art hosted the Met Gala, the annual fundraising event where no one knows how to Google what a theme means.


Louis Virtel: I was gonna say, also. So it was mainly American designers was like the umbrella theme, but Gilded Age was the sort of theme within the theme. And guys, we had a whole television series you could have referenced it’s right there in the title it says Gilded.


Ira Madison III: Yeah part two of In America an anthology of Fashion. The theme was Gilded Glamor and. I don’t know. I don’t know. First of all, this was a wild ride. It was a wild ride of taking in, like, bad costumes. And then some people who, like, understood the assignment. And then also this code is like happening at the exact same time. You know, it was very disorienting for me because I’m in Amsterdam right now and, you know, so I’m like, I couldn’t I couldn’t sleep really. So I was like, I went to sleep early while like the Met gala stuff was still happening. And then I’m waking up and getting all of this news and it’s like 4 a.m. here, and my my mind is just, like, fried.


Louis Virtel: You’re just like Vincent van Gogh. You’re in Amsterdam and your mind’s a blur. And we’re all worried.


Ira Madison III: It felt like a fever dream. I was like, What the fuck is happening?


Louis Virtel: Well, it was indeed a starry night. Oh, my God. I need to stop. Okay. Go  ahead.


Ira Madison III: I’m gonna cut your ear off, Louis. Um, here’s the thing about the Met gala, which which happens every year, there’s always the conversation that, you know, this is a parade of capitalism and it’s rich people, you know, who don’t care about the rest of the world, etc.. And, you know, that was highlighted, you know, I guess with the events of the SCOTUS leak, but also the juxtaposition of them, just because they were happening on the same night literally makes no sense. Yeah. Like one doesn’t inform the other. And you were right when you pointed out that, like when something like like there’s always, there’s always a capitalistic event happening in America, which is a capitalist nation. So anything and everything could be happening, you know? But I guarantee when this draft was leaked, you know, it had nothing to do with the SCOTUS getting together and being like, Well, let me tell you something, America is going to be distracted by the fashions tonight. So let’s let’s draft this memo will probably happen is it was a monday. Right. And people go to work on Monday.


Louis Virtel: Right. Right, right.


Ira Madison III: I know the Internet generally hates Mondays. It has this old sort of like Garfield thing where they’re like “Ugh Monday, don’t talk to me about work. I’m ignoring emails.” But some people do go to work on Monday and sometimes people go to work to take away our rights on Monday.


Louis Virtel: Do you think the Met gala should move to Sunday for this reason? Because we don’t want to intersect with abortion news ever again. And it only occurs on a Monday.


Ira Madison III: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, maybe so. The first Sunday in May has sort of a ring to it.


Louis Virtel: Yeah. Cute. It’s very Kentucky Derby. Now. Okay, let’s get into the people who arrived. You know who I am so thankful always comes? Because I think she’s the the definitive Met Gala celebrity.


Ira Madison III: Rihanna?


Louis Virtel: Sarah Jessica Parker, Rihanna.


Ira Madison III: She obviously wasn’t there because she’s, you know, about to give birth in Barbados.


Louis Virtel: Right. No, Rihanna. But she’s like, you know, she’s like the Olympics. She she comes every few years or so. And then you can’t you can’t always expect her. But Sarah Jessica Parker, she came in this sort of I’ll call it Harlequin looking, me describing fashion is, by the way, lol this harlequin looking dress that actually evokes the Gilded Age.


It was Christopher John Rogers. I love this look on her. It is a far cry from that one year she came with like a fucking birdcage on her head.


Louis Virtel: Right. But also, it’s like she knows the level you’re supposed to bring in terms of grandeur, because I feel like too many celebrities go for sleek or like there’s no other way to put it. Like normal like normal glamor. And like, the Met Gala is supposed to be a little bit of a step outside of reality. And I think that Sarah Jessica Parker is the one who definitively always goes for it. And also she has the vocabulary. She probably knows more about fashion than all the other celebrities put together.


Ira Madison III: Mm hmm. I’m just going to get this out of the way. My favorite look of the night was Sebastian Stan in Valentino.


Louis Virtel: No wait. Your favorite look of the night. Girlfriend you would wear that.


Ira Madison III:  I can. Louis, thank you. Umm. I just. It’s just. It’s so, first of all, it’s such a good look on of him.


Louis Virtel: This is an all pink outfit. It’s very like just south of bubblegum pink. I would call it like a bright magenta.


Ira Madison III: He’s looking like bubblegum pink. He’s he looks like he looks like a Batman villain.


Louis Virtel: Yeah.


Ira Madison III: I don’t know. There’s something just so sexy about it. And I like. I like that it’s. It just he looks great. You know, it’s not on theme, but it feels like it’s in the spirit of the theme, if that makes sense. It’s not just him wearing a pink suit. You know, like it feels opulent. But anyway, I like it. I can’t get it out of my head. But also, as I said, I was on Xanax taking all of these looks in while also taking in the hell of American politics. So forgive me if this was my favorite look, I think I would I would maybe give it to Blake Lively. But I feel like everyone is overhyping that dress.


Louis Virtel: I feel like Blake Lively, who was a co-chair of the event and wore this sort of literally gilded like a brownish, greenish, huge gown with his sort of pictures all over it. Lovely and huge, but also expected and ultimately just charming. I wasn’t getting rad from that dress, which is sort of what I like out. It was meant to evoke the Statue of Liberty and how it was, you know, built with copper and then has that greenish tint over time, etc.. Great, but not quite rock and roll. And I like that little x factor of something naughty going on. Nothing was really naughty about it.


Ira Madison III: Mm. Yeah. The only thing really naughty about Blake is that she got married on a plantation.


Louis Virtel: Oh, I thought. Yes, that’s true. And then I have to give it up to Ryan Reynolds for kind of just standing there. I mean, he was not commanding attention in any way. And I, I think among straight men, nobody likes attention more. He’s got that. He’s got, like, vaudeville eyes. Like, I’m ready to be funny. So you had Sebastian Stan in all pink, and yet you’ve said nothing about Glenn Close wearing the same color, sweeping in.


Ira Madison III: You know what.


Louis Virtel: Is it because you’re a sexist?


Ira Madison III: It is actually.


Louis Virtel: Got it.


Ira Madison III: You know, unfortunately, I just I’m not I’m not I’m not a closer.


Louis Virtel: That was Kyra Sedgwick. But okay. You are damages. That’s what you are.


Ira Madison III: I was trying to come up with a name for Glenn Close fans, but I guess I should go call my mother and ask her for a different one.


Louis Virtel: I’m. I’m having a hillbilly elegy for your taste. I have to say


Ira Madison III: Um, you know what? I think Glenn looks great. I think Glenn is sort of in a class of her own right now. We’re just like Glenn is doing Glenn, you know?


Louis Virtel: Yes. Also, the her hair looks fabulous. She has a very sleek what we once upon a time would have called a Susan powder look, you can Google that. But I thought there were not very many celebrities of Glenn’s ilk like Christine Baranski showed up for the first time that was cool and she Swan and her I own 51% of this company garb which as she should but there weren’t many like Ariana Debose is there but not much in the in the in the range of Oscar winners I didn’t think showed up this time. Honestly, the caliber of celebrities was a little flat for me.


Ira Madison III: I mean, everything lately has been giving like B string celebrities, unfortunately, like not like, you know, it’s like Coachella, the attendees, you know, it’s like the Oscars this year is just we’re not getting we’re not getting the A-listers. Where are they?


Louis Virtel: Yeah, I’m like, we’re.


Ira Madison III: Where’s J-Lo? Planning her wedding.


Louis Virtel: J.Lo. Where’s someone like Cher? You know, like those kind of people. I know where Madonna was. She was performing with Maluma. We actually can’t talk about that because I can’t bring myself to watch.


Ira Madison III: Yeah.


Louis Virtel: Maluma directing her around on stage. Guys, don’t even Google it.


Ira Madison III: You know what she loves surprise performances on stages where she terrorizes a young male rapper.


Louis Virtel: That’s true. I know you’re referencing Drake right now.


Ira Madison III: Um, listen let’s let’s just get this out of the way and talk about Kim Kardashian.


Louis Virtel: Right.


Ira Madison III: And this Marilyn Monroe look that everyone won’t stop talking about. First of all, I want to say leave Pete at home. I’m like, listen, I’m. I’m fine with her getting dicked down by him. Okay.


Louis Virtel: Yeah.


Ira Madison III: You should be able to do that, baby. You’re 41. Enjoy it. But she looks like she is chaperoning him every time he’s on the red carpet. Like, what is going on? Like his just like his suit and glasses. Look, I’m like, that’s not going to become a thing. We’re not doing this.


Louis Virtel: Right. No.


Ira Madison III: We’re not doing this. We’re not doing this. And you are 41 years old. Also giving interviews about how basically you starved yourself for three weeks to fit into this damn dress.


Louis Virtel: I was sort of surprised to hear that until I saw her. And honestly, I don’t think I even recognized  it was Kim Kardashian. For a second to me, I thought it was J.Lo. Like, she looks much different. Also, I have to say so historically, I like that she’s referencing the Marilyn Monroe dress because I don’t know. It’s a little bit witty. You know, it is. It’s Americana. People can’t stop bringing up Marilyn Monroe. But it’s not the first reference you think of when you think of Marilyn Monroe. She didn’t come down in the gentlemen prefer blonds dress or anything like that. That said, it’s a remarkable dress for the time. But on the Met Gala red carpet, I didn’t think it was particularly stunning and in fact, sort of was flat to me.


Ira Madison III: Also, it’s from 1962.


Louis Virtel: Right.


Ira Madison III: Girl. Like. The Gilded, the Gilded Age didn’t last 300 years.


Louis Virtel: My favorite era in American history is 1858 to now.


Ira Madison III: See I like when people, like listen this going to be weird coming off on like the Sebastian Stan thing but like I like when people aren’t on theme and do something interesting. What I actually dislike is when someone decides like I’m going to make a historical reference that actually has nothing to do with the the historic moment that we’re actually celebrating. You know, I’m like, you can wear this honestly anywhere into a bigger moment. And I get that it’s the Met Gala and you want all cameras on you, but you’re Kim Kardashian. All cameras are on you if you go to Citgo.


Louis Virtel: Right. I think maybe her hair choice I think also made it made less of an impact.


Ira Madison III: Didn’t even give me. Didn’t even give us the full Marilyn. Like what the fuck? It’s lazy.


Louis Virtel: Right.


Ira Madison III: Except for the and then it’s then like, I don’t know. I still can’t get over the whole, like, not to be Jameela Jamil here, but like giving an interview about how, like, you just, like, starved yourself for three weeks to fit into this dress. I’m like girl. You’re at home raising kids. Like this. And like what? Like this is basically just like her selling those lollipops again. And then she changed into a more comfortable replica after she walked the carpet. So I’m like. It’s a scam. It’s a scam. And Jameela was right.


Louis Virtel: Because the dress is like gossamer thin and is currently owned actually by Ripley’s Believe It or Not Museum in Orlando, which if you’re going to go to a Ripley’s Believe It or Not, you must go to the Orlando location, I have to say.


Ira Madison III: Well, speaking of Ripley’s Believe It or Not, Shawn Mendez.


Louis Virtel: I believe it. It’s what he always does.


Ira Madison III: You know what? He looked good.


Louis Virtel: No, he’s he’s obviously gorgeous and the epitome of an Abercrombie type, which we’ll get into momentarily. But honestly, he’s so he dressed in a sort of I would call it like a dandy coat, like a slightly military vibe. But the only kind of opulent part of it were that there are big gold buttons and there’s a red sleeve, which is as much as he can handle. I think.


Ira Madison III: He looks like Gaston.


Louis Virtel: Yeah, he looks like Gaston. Right.


Ira Madison III: Here’s the thing. I agree with Tom and Lorenzo. I think they called it bad. That its basically just sort of like aspirational fashion, which is like a lot of like which gets into the Abercrombie thing. Right. Like the suit looks like honestly, like. I think you would look good in a suit.


Louis Virtel: Oh, thank you.


Ira Madison III: I mean, you know, it’s not like you you rarely step over into, you know, what I would call fashion.


Louis Virtel: Move it along. Go ahead.


Ira Madison III: You know, I’ve never really seen you turn what I would call “a look.” You know, I’ve never really been impressed.


Louis Virtel: Okay.


Ira Madison III: But I would say.


Louis Virtel: Thank you for writing that poem about how I dress. Go ahead.


Ira Madison III: But I think that you look good in this. You know. But then that also brings you the question of like, if it’s the Met gala and if it’s a dress, an outfit where it’s like, oh, this looks really great like, let me go and find like a version of this. Like, are you really delivering?


Louis Virtel: Right. I just think it’s sort of in line with Shawn Mendes going with pleasing looks and never interesting looks. Like he really has a problem coming up with interesting. Music musically. Anything he says like he’s he’s I saw maybe on the Who weekly message board that casually referred to him as Yawn Mendez. And I’m sorry its a laugh every time.


Ira Madison III: Even his like little Notes app screen was so uninteresting. I was like, sis, what are you talking about?


Louis Virtel: Oh, yeah.


Ira Madison III: It was like I was like, this is like this was like, this is a bad journal entry. I was like, I don’t even get what you’re saying. What are you talking about.


Louis Virtel: Reason. So recently he posted something on Notes app about what was it he was like feeling alienated or something.


Ira Madison III: Just about feeling sad.


Louis Virtel: Oh, okay. Which oh and he has like the noted anxiety problem or something. So, okay, fine, go ahead and do that. But it didn’t his anxiety did not elevate his look. I have to say, I wish he were even a little bit more anxious and gave us more.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. Join the Xany family, baby. I have anxiety too and I love popping a Xanax. Okay. I pop one before I do this show. Pop it before flights.


Louis Virtel: This is your second time today you’ve referenced. Yeah. You have. You’re a drug addict. Okay, And now I know.


Ira Madison III: I will. Last thing about his fashion and you. I actually really love his hair. And I think you should start doing that.


Louis Virtel: Yeah. My hair runs a little.


Ira Madison III: Like a little lightly tussled.


Louis Virtel: Yeah. Texture and my hair meet every couple of years. But I will do my best to achieve that.


Ira Madison III: I really like the Model and First Nation activist Quannah Chasinghorse, by the way, because like she paid tribute to, you know, sort of like indigenous people during that era.


Louis Virtel: Oh, no. When people. Cynthia Erivo did that, too, didn’t she?


Ira Madison III: Mmmhmm. Yeah. Looking great in Louis Vuitton.


Louis Virtel: Also, I forget that when Saidiya Erivo speaks, it is arresting like you cling on to the wall and just listen to the like butteryness of her incredible just speaking instrument as opposed to just her tremendous singing voice.


Ira Madison III: Um. Some other people, I thought, looked great. Like I thought Janicza Bravo looked great. I thought Emma Corrin looked great. Venus Williams looked like she would look great in a boardroom.


Louis Virtel: I was just say Venus Williams dressed like Whoopi Goldberg in Soap Dish. I think this is barely a reference to anything other than looking good in 1991.


Ira Madison III: She’s the baddest bitch at the Women in Music Business Conference. So shout out to her. Shout out to her. I think everyone is in agreement on what the absolute worst look at the Met gala was.


Louis Virtel: Oh, it’s got to be Camila Cabello.


Ira Madison III: Camila Cabello. What the fuck was she wearing?


Louis Virtel: It was. I mean.


Ira Madison III: You could see it in her eyes. You could see it in her eyes. She knows. And I am so I am so upset by this because let me tell you something. Her new album, Familia, is actually really fucking great.


Louis Virtel: I’m not surprised by that. I’ve historically enjoyed her music. Yeah, the dress looks like everybody made the same joke. It looks like an is it cake? Funfetti. Say it was like it has this ruffle that was patched with what I’m going to call Fruity Pebbles Specks. And it just looked super cheap. It looked like a Project Runway. Christie’s challenge where she took a roll of like, candy dots and turned it into a dress.


Ira Madison III: She looks like the Terminator that came back from the far, far future to tell Dippin Dots about their future. She’s a Dippin Dot terminator is what she is.


Louis Virtel: My favorite thing about Dippin Dots is that they always have the potential to be right. It still could be the ice cream of the future. We’re not there yet. You know who did look amazing and was wearing, I think, the designer of the night, Michelle Yeoh, our friend wearing that mint green Prabal Gurung dress. And I believe also Mindy Kaling wore that just gorgeous. And also, I love when somebody is wearing a color that nobody else is weaing.


Ira Madison III: Well, Michelle Yeoh’s was gorgeous.


Louis Virtel: Yeah. Mindy’s was giving, you know, fine Golden Globes gown.


Ira Madison III: It looks like a Golden Globes gown. You know, I need Mindy Kaling to hire fire her makeup artist. And I’m just going to put that out there.


Louis Virtel: It really matched the gown, right?


Ira Madison III: Yeah. Yeah, I just I actually I love sis. I want her to do well. I don’t like the makeup. What’s going on here?


Louis Virtel: I’ve got to say its monochrome.


Ira Madison III: There’s a bad MUA. Like, look, let’s let’s get somebody let’s get somebody Black on the team.


Louis Virtel: I think monochrome in general looks better on men than it does women. There’s a stolidness to monochrome that befits masculinity. I believe in the binary. Did I not say that? Okay.


Ira Madison III: Well, I only wear makeup that goes by they them pronouns, so I don’t know what you’re talking about.


Louis Virtel: Okay, theramess.


Ira Madison III: Lizzo looked great as well. But you know what?


Louis Virtel: And she brought the flute.


Ira Madison III: Yeah, I’ve had it. Leave the flute at home.


Louis Virtel: That is sort of like 2016. Yeah.


It was wild that she brought the flute with her because I was like, we still doing the flute?


Louis Virtel: Yeah. It’s like if Alanis Morissette brought a harmonica wherever she went, it’s like, yeah, I remember you played it that one time.


Ira Madison III: Right? You know, it’s like if Justin Timberlake brought Chris Kirkpatrick with him everywhere he went, okay, like.


Louis Virtel: That’d be kind of cool.


Ira Madison III: There was a time and a place. There was a time and a place. Okay, let the flute join Celebrity Big Brother and go on its way.


Louis Virtel: In a 7 to 2 vote, flute, you are eliminated from the Big Brother house. The flute walking on out, hugging it’s friends.


Ira Madison III: All right. When we’re back. We’re joined by the very, very wonderful Amber Ruffin.




Ira Madison III: She is a writer on Late Night with Seth Meyers, the host of the Amber Ruffin Show, the bestselling author of You’ll Never Believe What Happened to Lacey: Crazy Stories about Racism. And she’s doing far too much. And the writer of the upcoming Broadway musical Some Like It Hot,.


Louis Virtel: Which what?


Please welcome, Phylicia Rashad. No, obviously it’s Amber Ruffin. It’s Amber. Imagine if I was like, the host of the Amber Ruffin Show. And that is just like.


Louis Virtel: Keke Palmer, yeah.




Amber Ruffin: Phylicia Rashad! Eternally grateful to be here. A thrill.


Ira Madison III: There is so much that we couldn’t talk to you about and will talk to you about. But first, we’re going to get right into Some Like It Hot, a musical that you are working on, because, first of all, I never knew I needed this in my life and now I really need it in my life now that I know about it. And you’re writing it with Matthew Lopez, who wrote.


Amber Ruffin: Yay. My buddy. Yay


Ira Madison III: the inheritance. So, tell us about how you even got involved with this project and what’s it like working with you know? Matthew, who just came off of writing a 20 hour queer epic that was on Broadway and the West End?


Amber Ruffin: Yeah, I mean, it was the most fun. I just couldn’t believe it. Like, usually we write little jokes and maybe Seth Meyers will say them. Sometimes it’s like some celebrity somewhere. And that’s that’s the biggest deal that’s going to happen to you. But, man, you write all these little things and like professional Broadway actors say them, and it’s different. Its something different. Oh, yeah. It was neat to learn how to write for, like, a giant stage, because even, like, a 300 seat theater is not a Broadway theater. Like, it’s different. So every little bit of writing you’ve done, it will be called upon, you know, to help you figure out how to build a Broadway theater. Very cool. But, yeah, Matthew Lopez and Casey Nicholaw, the man who directed a million things on Broadway, including Book of Mormon and Aladdin, and the team of music writers who wrote, among a million other things, Hairspray are doing the music. So they all called them were like, Do you want to help us write this show? And I said, yes, but they had already written quite a bit of it. You know, that’s the journey of a musical is they rewrite it and rewrite it. And so.


Ira Madison III: This team. Iconic, by the way. I mean, basically, they basically they called you up and were like, hey, would you like to win a Tony?


Amber Ruffin: And I said, Yes, whatever you need, I’ll do it. I love it. Yes. But yeah, it’s very cool. It’s cool.


Louis Virtel: So, I mean, let’s talk about some like it hot just period. First of all, I feel like in my life there’s been a general I’ve been seeing a lot more Marilyn remembrance material, namely about just what a brilliant comic performer she was. But that movie, so much of it holds up the speed of it. The the jokes are so good. So what how will this show call to mind that movie or how will it be completely different from that movie?


Amber Ruffin: Yeah, we it’ll be completely different in that of the five main characters. One is white. So that’s a big change. And also we just didn’t want it to be so problematic. So we had to shake all the dirt off it, which was, you know, a just a excellent exercise in writing. So like this show that really, you know, everyone over sets, I must say, 60, 70 is like this is the funniest movie of all time. You’re like, Well, yeah, but maybe it’s the funniest movie of your time today. So yeah, we went through some work to fix it and, you know, just, I guess I shouldn’t say fixed, but I definitely super will now a third time fix we we had to make sure everyone who came to see it could have a good time. And now I can 100% say when you come and see it, you will have a good time and you won’t feel like we’re ragging on you which was my only goal.


Ira Madison III: Some like it hot is in my favorite genre. I was by the way, people disguising themselves to escape the mob. Right? Just like Sister Act. What kind of a car ad? Yeah, I read because, you know, the director of it, Casey, the drowsy chaperon. It’s like, one of my faves. You know? So I imagine you’re updating the jokes to sort of I imagine the musical has to be self-referential, you know, like you can’t do a musical from the fifties without sort of acknowledging that, like the concept and like the jokes and everything are like, you know, a bit dated and then making fun of them. Do you enjoy do you enjoy that kind of comedy? You know, did you find that you were flexing a different comedy muscle then, like what you do on your own show, which is already different than what you know, the skills you use on Seth Meyers?


Amber Ruffin: Yes, it is all a different type of comedy and it took some getting used to like a mug. But it is so. I don’t want to say broad, but like physically broad. Like the the the, the hook is your writing comedy. But for a cartoon, that’s probably the closest I could get. Like once my mind was like, this is cartoonish, we want cartoon laughs, it was a lot faster, easier to do.


Louis Virtel: Speaking of comedy muscles, I’m curious what the difference for you is between writing material for Seth Meyers and writing material for your own show, because it feels like to be a correspondent. And then also the main act feels like you’re necessarily going to have just a different demographic audience. And do you feel that when you’re writing material for both shows? And is it is it is one tougher than the other? For example.


Amber Ruffin: I used to always say, no, it’s the same. We you know, I fucking sit down on Sunday and I write, write, write. And whatever goes, goes and I don’t give a rip. But yesterday I wrote, wrote, wrote and I came up with this thing and I was like, I don’t think I could do this on Late Night. And it was like something like the FDA is going to ban menthol cigarettes. Which brings us to a segment called Is This Racist? But then like if I do that on the Amber Ruffin show its fine, but if I do that on Seth’s show, it’s just a little like it doesn’t feel great for white people to be like “Ahahaha those black people are menthols. They can’t get enought.”. You know, that feels gross. But I didn’t. I wrote it. I was like, Oh, this is fine. And then when I said it out loud, I was like, Oh, yo. Yeah. I don’t know that that’s the right thing to be doing. So. So, yes, I finally found it. Yes, there’s definitely a difference there, because the difference is just like you said, where were you a while ago? The difference is who is the audience? And that’s something I was never keeping in mind because I’m that.


Ira Madison III: Kind of I mean, it’s it’s so exciting to to see you having your own show, you know, where you get out, get to be a black woman in late night, you know, like, I mean, what what’s it been like, I guess sort of for years working and being in says voice for so long. I mean, what was what was it like developing your comedy muscles over the years on that show? And what maybe have you sort of had to I don’t want to say unlearn, but like something where you’re like, oh, okay, I don’t have to do this anymore.


Amber Ruffin: Mmhmm. Well. When I started Seth’s show, I just was like, Man, shut up. Don’t embarrass yourself. Keep it together. But then I quickly found out that there were no rules and like. I. I don’t know how to say this. You could. You know how when you are black in a workplace, then you have your own set of rules, and then everyone else has their own set of rules. The second I realized I don’t think these people know black folks are supposed to have rules are rules. They. You know, and then we’re all like fucking digging around so bad. Like, leave to go have a stake in the middle of the day at a bar. Agree to go back like, well, we are fucking over. There were no rules. They’re just like, you guys are fun. And we were just allowed to do whatever we wanted as long as we came up with fun, you know, sketches and fun bits. And it was all like, you know, camaraderie and, you know, party time. And then, you know, once I realized, oh, I can also be acting like these people, I thought, I wonder if this extends to what I can do on the show and I’ll be damned. It certainly does. So you’re like, Hey, these are haircuts I hate. People are like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What are you gonna do? And I couldn’t believe that I got the latitude I got. And then I just started pushing it and pushing it, and I’m still pushing it. But, yeah, for my show, I had to realize, like, Seth’s Show, he’s the straight man and I am a lunatic. And then on my show, it’s harder to be the lunatic. So I just ended up doing what Seth does and having my writers on to be silly sweetheart. And it works and it’s honor that way. Yeah, I didn’t know that. I thought, oh, my own show. Now I am the king of the idiots. But you can’t really do it like that if someone else has to be your doofus. It’s fun.


Louis Virtel: Now I read this and I was shocked not to know it from the time I knew who you were. You were the first black woman to be a late night comedy writer. Is that correct?


Amber Ruffin: The all of the things you have to say in order to make that true. It’s like like the first black female writer on a late night network talk show.


Louis Virtel: Ah network, yes. Okay.


Amber Ruffin: They say it’s true but I don’t know, man. Like, I don’t I don’t know if that’s true.


Louis Virtel: I do think about a show like Letterman. I’m like, Oh, yeah, maybe there wasn’t a black woman on that show. Now that now that you mention it, you know what I’m saying?


Ira Madison III: I’m sure Jacqué was writing jokes for you know, the Johnny Carson show, we just don’t know about it.


Louis Virtel: Yeah, right. Surely Joan Rivers for a moment. Yeah, had someone you know, but, I mean, like, were you aware of that at the time when you got hired for the show? Like anything statistically about that?


Amber Ruffin: Absolutely not. And then I also didn’t even think about it. And then someone wrote that article and people were like, Oh, my God. I was like, Well, what do you expect? Like, I certainly never was like, I’m going to grow up and do late nights. Never occurred. Never, never. Not even for a minute. Not even while Arsenio Hall was out. And I was like, Oh, good for this man. I love it. It’s a great show I love it. Ya’ll look like you’re having fun and I enjoy that. And like, it certainly never seemed like an option to me.


Ira Madison III: Did it not seem like an option because it was something where you were like, This just isn’t the kind of comedy I like to do. Like, you were like, I like improv and this. Or was it just like something you didn’t think was possible?


Amber Ruffin: No, it was something I didn’t think is possible. I love Late Night and I love like. Like presentational variety sketch, which is what I like to do. Like, not like sketch, sketch like black lady sketch show or. I think you should leave sketch. But like. Like I’m Carol BURNETT. Like we are talking to the audience. You know I’m laying out my character very early, you know. It’s that’s the type of comedy that I enjoy. So like. Corny.


Louis Virtel: But I think we can call that classic. Yeah.


Amber Ruffin: Oh. Aww, thank you for the rebrand.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. Louis made the Hays Code over here.


Louis Virtel: Yeah, right. But, I mean, like, I have to say, like you writing this Broadway show is I mean, I guess the word is inspiring because you just literally I mean, it seems to me you have just leapt from one complete comedy world to another. Do you have a third in mind? Do you have like ambitions still that are outside these bubbles? Or does that feel it’s crazy that that would feel inconceivable because getting to write a Broadway show already feels inconceivable.


Amber Ruffin: Yeah. It’s all like. I have never sat down and been like, these are my goals. Yeah, these are my wants and my wishes and my, you know, I certainly was never like. I’m going to end up on TV. Even in my mind, I was like, I’m going to move to L.A. and I’m going to give it a shot. Because I have to. But even like that’s where the thought stopped was like, I’m going to try it. And then I had all these safety nets and I was like, Okay, then I’ll do the second city cruise ships, or I’ll go back to Chicago or go teach improv in Chicago. And that was how I thought of it. I never thought of the what if it goes? Fuckin never occur to me, never occurred to me. And still and then with every new thing, I go, Well, it’s not going to get crazier than this. And than it does. It does. So I’m not saying shit. I’m not going to say one word, and I’m just going to let whatever happens happen, because I couldn’t have guessed it. If I had tried to guess at every point, I would have been wrong. So I’m not saying anything.


Ira Madison III: So Some Like It Hot came was was was brought to you if you’ve you could think of a movie that you love like one of your favorite comedies like what would you want to adapt? Like, what do you think like would really pop on stage?


Amber Ruffin: Thank you. And this is what I have always wanted to do. I want to do a well, first of all, I wrote a musical based on the documentary King of Kong, King of Kong is a documentary where two men vie to become the Donkey Kong arcade game champion. And one is a pure soul, a science teacher who is a doll baby. And then the other guy is almost the devil. They’re just real people fucking loose in the world. And it’s the best documentary I’ve ever seen. It’s not even close. And I wrote a musical about it with my friend Lauren Van Kieran and the music was by David Schmo who does all my music for my everything. And it, you know, we took it around and it won awards and we did this map and then the people who made the documentary saw it and we’re like, stop it.


Louis Virtel: Oh, they can do that, huh? Yeah.


Amber Ruffin: Yeah. They were like the two of you can do this musical every once in a while for fun, but not for money. You can’t, like, drum up a big tour and shit. And I’m like, okay, I won’t. But it’s only because they want to write a King of Kong musical. I think that’s in the works. But whatever. It’ll be the second best one. I guaran-fucking-tee it. Cause that thing was the shit. But my point is I wanted to I think that well, first of all, that is the best its the best. It was too of an musical where we played each character. It was just like a quick change. Karaoke, musicals, the best. And then a. I you know, because sometimes you have meetings with studios and they go, What movie do you want to turn into a musical? And but I say, whatever I think they want to hear. But the real answer is over the top.


Louis Virtel: Oh, my God. The arm wrestling movie.


Amber Ruffin: The Arm wrestling movie. Yeah, that would be the absolute best musical of all time. It’s so silly. I don’t think anyone has done, like, people remake movies. But I think the it would be a good idea to remake a movie that takes itself just as seriously as the movie did when it came out, even though we now know that that is stupid. Like, that’s what I want to do. I want to do over the top Those people were like, Yeah, in life. You got two arms, one for love and one for doing all venture. I don’t even know. I’m making that up. But like they say things like that and it’s beautiful. It’s beautiful.


Ira Madison III: I mean, first of all, that’s iconic because it gives me like, um, Cobra Kai vibes for one and two. You can’t go wrong like making a musical with a based on a movie that had a Giorgio Moroder soundtrack. Oh, please. So, you know, it is you know, I’m sure it’s not the most listened to words of his, but over the top, the music did what needed to be done.


Amber Ruffin: The music was so beautiful. And there is this like this theme that goes throughout the school, through the movie, every time. Every time I see it, I click on it. So we watch it. But like the driving thing that I know about that I have I’ve seen the movie so many times that I sing a full, silly song to that track, but also that’s what makes it seem like it make a good musical is that the score is unreal. It’s completely overpowering. It’s I love it. But that’s how things were in the eighties. It’s beautiful. And I’m right.


Ira Madison III: You throw Kenny. You throw Kenny Loggins on a soundtrack in the eighties and you know you’re done.


Louis Virtel: I have. Because of the new Top Gun, I’ve been reacquainted myself with, take my breath away recently. And like, that is I mean, it’s a wonderful song, of course, but it really takes you on a sonic journey for a movie that is, you know, not that deep.


Amber Ruffin: Yeah.


Louis Virtel: Another Giorgio Moroder classic. Yes.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. I mean, isn’t that exactly what Gaga was planning to, you know? The new song from Maverick, it’s like it’s this epic song, and it’s like the movie is not that. It’s Top Gun 2. Yeah.


Louis Virtel: Why have you seen this movie a million times? It seems like it was just on TV all the time. Or what?


Amber Ruffin: There was a period of time where it was that and overboard on TBS every Saturday.


Ira Madison III: I mean Iconic movies.


Amber Ruffin: Yeah, it’s like I love this. This is the best.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. TBS airing only movies with over in the title, by the way.


Amber Ruffin: Oh, maybe that’s why they were doing it.


Ira Madison III: Over Fridays, whatever it was called. I don’t know I mean remake overboard into a musical too unless that’s happened already.


Amber Ruffin: I’m pretty shocked. I don’t think it has. It had that movie remake.


Louis Virtel: Right.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like but I also feel like over-the-top is safe. But a movie like Overboard, you would be like, oh, let’s make this into a musical. And then you find out that like they had a run of it in, like, Cleveland or something in.


Louis Virtel: Right.


Ira Madison III: 2001.


Amber Ruffin: Absolutely.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. Yeah, I. But we are so excited for some like it hot. I have to tell you this because I love I truly just love a musical like that. I think it’s like, you know, like I said, Drowsy Chaperon and Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. Like, I love a musical that’s sort of referencing, you know, the comedy that was in the original film. And it feels like it’s doing something fresh with the material. And you sound like a perfect person to be doing that, Amber.


Amber Ruffin: Yay. Its good, man. It is very good. They would when they started running through it, I was like, Oh, shit, you forget people can do this . Like throwing each other around and shit I’m like, I don’t care for this. Please be safer.


Ira Madison III: I’m so excited to see Christian Ball. You know, I’ve it’s as I’ve said, have it. I’m obsessed with Little Shop of Horrors, one of my favorite musicals. So I’ve gotten to see different iterations of this current run every time there’s a new Seymour and just seeing him, you know, as the deranged dentist in that he’s so good, you know.


Amber Ruffin: It’s fantastic and it’s so cool to be like. Hi. Hi, Christian. Would you please say these lines, please? Okay, great. I love him so much. Its terrifying.


Louis Virtel: Yeah, he’s a stone pro. I mean, he should just be in every show. Yeah, yeah.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being here, Amber.


Amber Ruffin: Yay.


Louis Virtel: What a pleasure. Thank you so much for being here.


Ira Madison III: Yeah.


Amber Ruffin: Yay, thank you for having me. This was fun and each of you is more perfect than the last. And I love your show and I love you.


Ira Madison III: Thank you. We adore you.


Amber Ruffin: Bye.


Ira Madison III: The Amber Ruffin show is streaming on Peacock and her book. You’ll Never Believe What Happened. The Lacey : Crazy Stories about Racism is available in bookstores everywhere, but maybe not in colleges because I hear it’s critical race theory. When we’re back. Louis and I talk about our teenage gay drama.




Ira Madison III: All right, every faggot online is talking about the Netflix coming of age romance series Heart Stopper. And you know what? It’s good. It’s really good.


Louis Virtel: I would say it’s cute. I mean.


Ira Madison III: It’s cute. I do have one big complaint.


Louis Virtel: Which is?


Ira Madison III: That’s all you give Olivia Colman to do?


Louis Virtel: It is mind boggling that Olivia Colman is on the show. The woman has seven lines altogether. I want to be clear. She’s nominated for three Oscars and one of them was yesterday.


Ira Madison III: Oh, look, she’s. I see. Olivia Colman in this lovely series, which was adapted from a webcomic and graphic novel about this boy, Nick Nelson, who starts to figure out his sexuality and realized that he realizes that he is attracted to guys. And that comes when he starts a friendship with this boy, Charlie, on the show who’s already out and gay at their high school. But. Baby like Nick. Struggling with his sexuality, played wonderfully by this actor, Kit Connor. These actors, Kit Connor and Joe, look like all most of the actors in this, like, seem to be like, this is their first role.


Louis Virtel: Yeah, and they all did really well. Like, nobody’s acting really bothers me or anything.


Ira Madison III: But you cast Olivia Colman as the mother of a teenager who’s figuring out their sexuality. And I’m big and there’s some juice coming.


Louis Virtel: Right.


Ira Madison III: There’s something coming. I feel duped. I feel like Oprah on the couch with James Frye.


Louis Virtel: No. I kept thinking, oh, surely this is leading up to a coming out scene where he’s he comes out to Olivia Colman, his mom and Olivia Colman, like turns to the window and says, Now I have a story to tell you about a time in college where I have a wonderful thing with a wonderful woman I never saw again. No. She literally just turns to him. And I guess I shouldn’t spoil it. But here’s a spoiler. Turgeman says, Oh, thank you for telling me. I’m sorry if I ever made you feel like you couldn’t tell me that before. That is it. That’s what he does in the show.


Ira Madison III: This was her moment to wipe Michael Stuhlbarg out the fucking room, okay? To wipe the fucking floor with his call me by your name speech.


Louis Virtel: No. Jennifer Garner in Love Simon. She should have been vanquished and yet not there.


Ira Madison III: It is wild that Jennifer Garner’s role in Love Simon was more emotional than Olivia Colman’s role in this.


Louis Virtel: Mathematically it makes no sense.


Ira Madison III: It was beefier. We given the beef to Sydney Bristow? I love that we’re giving the beef to Sydney Bristow, but come on, give Olivia Colman something to chew. It’s actually wild because she has, like, seven lines, but she. She has more lines in Heart Stopper than she did in The Last Daughter.


Louis Virtel: Right. Well that was a lot of trembling and crying, so.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. And still it felt lacking.


Louis Virtel: Right?


Ira Madison III: I needed some trembling and crying here.


Louis Virtel: No, nothing. She was utterly stable. It made no sense.


Ira Madison III: She showed up on set one day.


Louis Virtel: Well, okay. Let me say this about this show, though. It’s basically a Nick Junior show about boys kissing. I mean, like, it’s so I don’t want to say it’s anesthetized because it is an emotional show, but they really simplify. And Virgin, if I. The idea of coming out like it’s not a sexual show and anyway, not demanding it has to be or whatever. But just know you’re getting a very, very sweet version of a high school romance. And additionally, some of the choices made to color in the emotion of the story are pretty fucking juvenile. One.


Ira Madison III: You mean like. You mean like the animated flowers that fly around people whenever they have. feelings for someone?


Louis Virtel: Wait. Excuse me. Excuse me. Let me explain what happens on this show. When two people are in a scene and they make even a light romantic glance at each other. The show is not content with you picking up that they’re having a romantic moment. It has to tell you they’re in love with each other, with literally cartoon birds and butterflies flying in. And like ramped up music cues. It’s like it’s literally like teaching a one year old what being gay is, which great. Glad we have that. But based on the fact that they’re high schoolers and based on the fact that we are thinking adults, we can deduce on our own what’s happening without SNL Saturday TV Funhouse graphics flying across the screen.


Ira Madison III: Eureka’s castle held your hand less in scenes. Is what I want to say. But this this critique is only a critique, I think, of the audience of our peers who are taking it.


Louis Virtel: Yeah right.


Ira Madison III: Because this show, I feel like, is very cute. I mean, clearly Olivia Colman being in it probably helped it get made.


Louis Virtel: Yeah maybe that’s part of it.


Ira Madison III: So shout out to that. If it’s just your kids consuming this, if it’s just teenagers who haven’t come out, if this is their Glee. Well, maybe I do feel a little sorry for them because this show is no Glee. Okay.


Louis Virtel: I don’t know about that. Well, you start. Glee was Glee at least gave you some cynicism.


Ira Madison III: Okay. I mean, listen, Jasmine Phinney, a gorgeous trans actress, by the way, who plays Elle on the show. I follow her on Instagram and she is a bombshell. She could be giving us like Naya Rivera in Glee, but instead they’ve got her and, you know, like glasses looking like Anne Hathaway in the beginning of Princess Diaries. Right. So, like, what you see when you look at how gorgeous this girl looks, adorable, you’re going to be struck by what like how they dress her up on the show. But I’m just like a show like this comes around. There’s always the there’s always the moment when, like, gay men in their thirties specifically are age. Yes. Well, could submit and then go on this whole thing about how like if only we’d had this when we were kids, you know, and talk about like how emotional it is to them and how good and perfect it is and how they’re watching it, how they’ve watched it six times in the weekend. Allo, let me tell you something that is ahistorical. We did have this when we were kids.


Louis Virtel: Broken Hearts Club. There’s tons of movies like this, like Under Seventeen. Yeah.


Ira Madison III: What’s. What’s also different is that I mean, it’s different in the sense that, like, this is what like eight episodes that are half hour each. It’s very easy to digest and it’s about, you know, and.


Louis Virtel: It’s really well produced. I’ll say this.


Ira Madison III: Produced it’s you know, it addresses bisexuality, it addresses trans kids. That is great. But in terms of the story that’s actually moving cis gay men who are being emotional about it, it’s it’s the main love story. And, you know, like we got this shot on like Dawson’s Creek. We got to know, like, Buffy, you know, and.


Louis Virtel: Undressed motherfucker.


Ira Madison III: Right? It had a lot more drama and it had more. It felt just slightly more real. You know, like Googling I am a homosexual on a BuzzFeed quiz is funny, you know. But like he would have Google’d. He’d he’d he’d have known he was gay by looking up gay porn before that.


Louis Virtel: Right, right, right. Well, it’s sort of like you’re hearing from that sector of TED Lasso fans who are constantly saying things like, it’s just nice to watch something where everyone’s lovely. It’s like, okay, kind of. But it also sounds like you’re emotionally deranged, but you’re just like, I don’t need it that much. Yeah.


Ira Madison III: Which is to say, I enjoyed the series. Did I cry during the final episode? Yes, I did. But here’s what I will say, that there is something just sort of like emotionally stunted about, you know, always finding a piece of media like this and being like, I wish I’d had this when I was a kid and sort of like overblowing the, you know, obstacles that you faced in high school just so you can feel good about the fact that you cried watching this Netflix series.


Louis Virtel: Yeah. Right. Well, people love announcing that they cried at something. It’s like they think it’s like an ultimately, like, the most humanizing thing you can do online. It’s a little bit of a performance. But anyway, I just want to say I obviously was a bit critical.


Ira Madison III: Which is very weird because I used to cry during that thing and then it turns out I cry during animated movies all the time, and the first time it ever happened to me was watching Wall-E.


Louis Virtel: Oh, did I cry during while at the. I do remember specifically being in the theater during Wall-E and at the beginning maybe when he puts the Hello Dolly thing on or whatever, I remember having an emotional reaction. Be like, God, Pixar like literally reaches into your brain and touches the spot where emotions are anyway.


Ira Madison III: It’s not easy to make me cry. I should probably be on Lexapro, but.


Louis Virtel: Right. Oh, yeah. I was just. I do really like this show and I think it’s fun to watch. Also, it’s like candy it slips by. It is also the most science show in history. The coloring on this show is just they took crap as are colored pencils and made it the most Easter colored show of all time. So like even just esthetically, you’re in a real happy, bunny like place. Now we must get into the Real World new New Orleans homecoming.


Ira Madison III: Okay, so this was our gay youth. Okay?


Louis Virtel: Yeah.


Ira Madison III: Danny Roberts.


Louis Virtel: Year was 2000. Yeah.


Ira Madison III: Danny Robert’s in New Orleans with his blurred out boyfriend in the military. Was that? That is what, like, made my, like, heart race as a kid.


Louis Virtel: Well, one, nobody was more Abercrombie looking than Danny from the season, so he was a very specific type of very cute. Model smile. And also, just like he was sort of like delicately nice. He wasn’t just he didn’t actually have like a ton of like, like personality. There was almost like a no. He was there was a sense that he was introverted. That’s what it was. And.


Ira Madison III: He was not like any other gay character that we’d had on MTV before. Like I’m thinking of Dan from Miami.


Louis Virtel: Right. Who was just like in your face


Ira Madison III: He was a cunt. I mean to . I mean, to put it blunt, like he he was a cunt.


Louis Virtel: And he talked at 500 miles per hour. Yeah.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. And like basically ripped Melissa to shreds over opening up his mail.


Louis Virtel: Right. But and was generally like the comic relief in the house, too, whereas Danny was not like that. But what’s interesting is this is a Paramount Plus show that reunites the New Orleans cast of the Real World. Every other cast member, even Tokyo, who is formerly David from New Orleans, as he calls himself now, their personalities came right back to me, like Kelly, who’s married to Scott Wolf. I’m like, Wow, you are the exact same. It was actually, in a way, validating for the art form of reality TV because they reminded me of my other impressions of them. Melissa was exactly the same. She was still hilarious and still withering and righteous.


Ira Madison III: Hilarious and also there was a sense of growth with all of that, too, in the sense that, like Melissa is. Yes, very hilarious. And like. Right. Just like like you said. But she’s also taken in the fact that she doesn’t feel like she did enough to represent herself, like as a brown girl on television in 2000. And obviously, she understands, you know, like. You know, like race and society, like a lot more than like some of the other guys members are like. She’s funny, but she also feels, like, relevant. Yeah. Like current in the same way that she did in 2002.


Louis Virtel: Also I mean, I think she is acutely aware of the fact that Julie this season, who is this religious Mormon girl whose whole like it was like the season was like a buildings Roman for her like we were seeing Julie really get acquainted with the real world like she she was like the star player. Like the, you know, the virgin. And then it was basically someone like Melissa’s job to give her the education. So in a way, she was a tool to elevate the character of Julie. And I think Melissa exhausted. I mean, we’ll get to that in a second. But like but like, I think Melissa realized she’s like, I’m not going to do this show up. I’m just going to be a tool to advance this other character. And now she’s like, I think fully, you know, her her own character, not just somebody who is there to, you know, pick out the idiocy of somebody else. But my God, Julie, who looks exactly the same, most of them look exactly the same, was just a drunk mess, a horny mess. And she’s, like, married to some guy at home. I was shocked at how quickly she went back to being a classic Real World cast member.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. And also just like a villain. Yeah, right. Right. Just like she was. She was propped up in this way, Edward. Now she comes back on the show. It is very much like making her discomfort at being like white and then also like a terrorist to everybody during the show and after it like their problem because he wasn’t just awful them on the show like do you think like they revealed that like she like fucked up bags for them after the show to like like you up like saying bad shit about her other cast members to like for speaking gigs and shit like that. And what it also reminded me of the fact is that these were celebrities.


Louis Virtel: Oh, my God yes.


Ira Madison III: When like and maybe.


Louis Virtel: If I  was in college, if I was in college when these real world casts were on TV and they came to my college, I would absolutely drop everything to go see them.


Ira Madison III: I remember when I first moved to New York, they were shooting right back to Brooklyn like the they were shooting the Williamsburg season. We went crazy when we saw like them filming in Union Square, you know, and that was that was 27 still, you know. And for me, I think that probably because MTV was like created its own ecosystem where, you know, like it was sort of like a precursor to. Instagram and Snapchat, you know, where like everybody can become a celebrity. Right. And like in reality TV, stars become less celebrities now unless you’re like, you know, the cast of Selling Sunset or something, you know, like a huge global, you know, scale. Reality show star. Because, like, there’s so much reality. Like it’s the celebrity is deluded. Now, if you’re a real housewife or you’re on a Netflix show like, then you become huge. But MTV, I would sort of compare to like an Instagram or a Snapchat because MTV created its own reality, basically, in the sense that they were celebrities, but they were also on every MTV show they would appear like on like spring break or they’d appear on TRL. And it’s sort of like if you were famous on MTV, you were famous in the real world as well, but you were mostly just mega famous to the audience that watched MTV every day. Does that make sense? Like they were our biggest celebrities.


Louis Virtel: Yeah. They gave you plenty of opportunities to continue your fame elsewhere on the network. Yeah.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. And that they were the biggest people to us. The way that like, you know, some someone’s like favorite like Instagram influencer is like the biggest celebrity to them.


Louis Virtel: Right, right, right. I want to say also about Danny from New Orleans on this season. He is the one person who doesn’t remind me of the person he was on the show before. And it’s it’s interesting to see, because I don’t think you often get a serious glimpse of someone after they’ve experienced, you know, the rush of being on a reality show and the rush of fame when they aren’t prepared for it. The trauma he went through is on his face. You can see it was it was not easy that also it’s like when we had Peter Page from Queer as Folk here, the original Queer as Folk here. I said to him, I was like, Man, so I bet people come up to you every day and talk about to tell you harrowing stories of their queer whatever teenage years. And he goes, That happens to me every day. That is so fucking much for somebody to have to deal with. And Danny clearly was one I think he’s thankful that he was could be, you know, a beacon of hope and for all these viewers. But at the same time, that is so much to bear. He talked about how he became a hermit for years and years. I was actually surprised to hear that his relationship with this poor guy from the military went on for years after the show. I didn’t remember hearing that at the time.


Ira Madison III: Yeah, I, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t have been shocked if they’d broke up like sort of immediately after the show, right. Yeah. Oh, you also the trauma of like being an out gay man on television, but also still essentially in the closet because your partner can’t be publicly out.


Louis Virtel: Right.


Ira Madison III: And now you’re a different person now, too, because, like, you had the trauma of people coming up to you and then you’ve also had that relationship that was basically like how people knew you on TV and also like. Not to be crass about it, but it’s also like imagine being like a fucking gay person on the real world and having to live in the shadow of Pedro.


Louis Virtel: No. Right. I mean, also, the show does a really good job of pointing out that if you were like an out gay celebrity in 2000, I mean, you were in a league by yourself. There just weren’t that many new celebrities who were out and gay. You know, there were kind of like established celebrities who could who could begin to come out, you know, in the vein of an Allen, etc.. But there weren’t many. You know, it was still like pre the era where someone like Perez Hilton would want to out you. You know, so it’s just there was not like a textbook about how to be an out young gay celebrity, let alone let alone somebody who is just like an average citizen for most of his life up to that point.


Ira Madison III: I mean, that gets us to White Hot, the rise and fall of Abercrombie and Fitch, which basically describes that era where you still had no idea that there were like other gay people like you in your small town, like, you know, but you that was still sort of the era of big gay like pre AOL, pre, you know, like gay people being everywhere that you you could still feel like maybe I’m the only gay person in my high school.


Louis Virtel: Right.


Ira Madison III: Which is absolutely not fucking true anywhere.


Louis Virtel: Completely. No. I mean, I think of I guess this would have been a little bit post the era of AIM, but when I was in college from 24 to 28, I remember going back to my hometown and being like, Oh, like when things like a Starbucks would appear, or an H&M would appear and suddenly gay people were working there. It’s like that was like the closest thing I had to social media that like, oh, there are other gay people here and they’ve found this place where they can work and sort of be gay and look gay, you know?


Ira Madison III: And the idea that, you know, we just hadn’t gotten into conversations about struggling with your sexuality, even sort of. In the way that, you know, like getting back to heart stopper, the character Nick Nelson, realizing it actually was really sweet to see in that show a character coming to the conclusion that they were bisexual. Yeah. Instead of just like, oh, like, I’m going to, like, pretend that I like girls and then just be, you know. Anyway, it was nice to see that because it reminds you of the fact that, like, everybody deals with their sexuality in their adolescence. And I think that during this period of our like high school lives, like in your brain, you’re just thinking I’m gay and I don’t want other people to find this out, right? At no point did I in my mind think like, oh, by the way, there’s another classmate who maybe isn’t gay but is dealing with the fact that, like, they’re attracted to their best friend. And what does that mean? You know, like there’s no concept of the fact that, like, there’s other people going through the same struggles that you were going through in high school, through the same degree, a lesser degree, a stronger degree. And I think the documentary sort of gets into that in the sense that like. And the Abercrombie ads were basically like light gay porn. But no one noticed that they were like gay porn because there was selling this aspirational, frat shirtless white bro running around like either naked or just in jeans, which looking at it now, anybody would look at that now and be like, this shit is get right. I mean, it look like it’s just like, oh, this is how straight people want to be.


Louis Virtel: And they get into the fact that the main photographer for Abercrombie was not only gay, but like this sort of latch who is problematic with models that get into that? I mean, watch the documentary. But what’s interesting is I think people forget and this occurred to me or I was told to me when I interviewed Raja from Drag Race years ago, she said that like a reason that Drag Race changed things in a way was not only did it popularize drag, but it sort of officially led gay people out of the Aber-Zombie era of their place in pop culture. What happened is like like gay people became obsessed with preppiness. That became like the gay look. And I think Abercrombie was a big part of centralizing that, you know? And so now I look at those pictures and I think, wow, it really looks like I mean, to be frank, all the porn I consumed when I was like 17 or 18.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. I mean, that is the direct like Abercrombie is the direct pipeline to Sean Cody.


Louis Virtel: Right? Yes.


Ira Madison III: You know, and it’s funny now because like if you go to seancody dot com now, it’s it doesn’t even look like the models that you remember from years ago. You know, it’s like the preppy esthetic is sort of gone from it.


Louis Virtel: Well, again, I remember very vividly at about 2005, there was an entire genre of porn that I would describe as skater. Like everybody there would be. You had to wear like you started with vans on. That’s what that was the rule. But I want to say about Abercrombie, I actually what’s interesting is as much as it was the cool brand, you know, around the time when that LFO song came out, I never shopped at Abercrombie, but mind you, I was sort of like unaware of fashion. I think I got into express ferment. Eventually, I wanted to look like the gayest cast member. And whose line is it anyway?


Ira Madison III: And nothing’s changed.


Louis Virtel: Right? I’m still wearing my lilac dress shirt tucked into, like, cerulean jeans.


Ira Madison III: What’s weird about the aspirational nature of that is there’s there’s this what black woman in the documentary who discusses being a part of, like, the class action lawsuit and she talks about, you know, the being at school. Was she transferred to a new school? Do you see is that the school that like Chelsea Clinton then all of like the Obamas people Obama’s kids went to about that’s where she discovered Abercrombie you know and her she just describes conversations with her mom or her mom like what’s the class action suit like? Started happening and when she was fired for being black, you know, her mom was like, that’s what I always assumed this was, you know? But like, when you’re a kid, you just take into account, like, what other people are doing and it’s. Yeah, I was out of public.


Louis Virtel: Yeah, no context.


Ira Madison III: Yeah, but I was at a public school in Milwaukee that was all black. I wanted to wear FUBU, you know, because that’s what the kids were wearing, you know, like FUBU, Nautica, Tommy Hilfiger, you know, like I was around black kids. I wanted to wear what the cool kids were wearing. And then when I was transferred to, you know, I when I went to an all boys high school in Milwaukee, I would say that sort of wear, that sort of like preppy sarkodie esthetic sort of started for me and why I would even start to be attracted to that in that period, because that’s when you see the Abercrombie shit and it’s all there and it’s, it’s weird. I think that like if I had never gone to that school, like would that have ever happened to me? You know?


Louis Virtel: Yeah, that’s interesting.


Ira Madison III: And it’s not like I shopped at Abercrombie because I was not Abercrombie size and high school, but like you would still walk past it and feel this, like, sensation of like maybe going in once or twice and like how perusing being like, oh, would I fit this? Can I do this? Or just because you just want it to be like a weird part of it.


Louis Virtel: But we also that that show, that store did such a good job of cultivating intrigue, as they point out in the documentary, it was the one store that ever put up brown shutters outside so you couldn’t see in it. But they had posters of models on the outside and occasionally real life models on the outside to sort of let you know this is the whole world and not everyone’s invited. But I mean, I guess you could take a walk through and maybe see if, you know, you’re cool enough to hang basically. Like it was just there was an allure there. And also, of course, you could hear the store and also smell the store. So it just had its own sort of Shangri-La vibe.


Ira Madison III: But it’s also just sort of. I mean, it’s sort of met gala, right, in the sense of like creating this intrigue of this place that you can’t get into and then you’re still obsessed with it. But then ultimately, is it that cool? Because it’s like that seemed like the end place, you know? And then these hot guys out there, it’s like, what’s going on inside this? Right. And then when you become like an older gay person, it’s sort of like those people wouldn’t even make it. Passed like the bouncer in like a hot, queer New York nightclub.


Louis Virtel: But it’s like the intrigue they cultivated was very suburban. It was very like, here’s here’s the idea of a popular person in your school or college that you can kind of replicate, that you can kind of buy into. You know, it wasn’t like a Hollywood glamor. It was it was very regional, shall we say.


Ira Madison III: But very Aryan.


Louis Virtel: Oh, my God. It’s the whitest thing ever. I mean, literally that I remember. You would go to any other store in the mall and you would see people who weren’t, you know, totally white. Whereas Abercrombie, as I remember it, might have had one person of color in it. And then everybody else looked like they were, you know, a cast member on The O.C..


Ira Madison III: When we’re back. It’s keep it.


Ira Madison III: And we’re back with our favorite segment of the episode. It is Keep It. Louis, what’s your Keep It this week?


Louis Virtel: Okay. I’m going to bring up some medical stuff that we assembly forgot. And you’re going to be mad at me for the name about to say. But let’s talk about what happened with Jared Leto at the Met gala, which is to say everybody thought he was this other guy named Fredrick, some model who was giving a very I’ve heard of Bjork costume. It’s a shocking kind of black swan colored. It’s pointy. I can’t even describe it. Go and look it up. But everybody thought it was Jared Leto. And then, lo and behold, seconds later, the real Jared Leto showed up, looking more traditionally, Jared Leto, like with a designer looking exactly the same. And I just want to say already that is too much discussion about Jared Leto and being confused by Jared Leto because guess what? I was watching the red carpet treatment of the Met gala and I heard Karamo live on air say that’s Jared Leto. And he was wrong about this man, about this, Fredrick guy and.


Karomo abandoned his job? I’m shocked.


Louis Virtel: Also. man


Ira Madison III: Also wait also, Karamo was wearing a wave cap.


Louis Virtel: Yes.


Ira Madison III: And he is bald.


Louis Virtel: You’re like you llike at detective.


Ira Madison III: I’m just I it’s it it seemed like he was trying to throw off Perot. Okay.


Louis Virtel: Yeah, that was confusing. I don’t know how everybody got this also wrong. The guy, I guess, does look like Jared Leto. But I mean, you’ve been on red carpets before. They usually they name. Yeah. Before you go out there and befuddle the press like this. It was really, really strange.


Ira Madison III: And imagine shouting Jared Leto’s name and him not immediately responding.


Louis Virtel: Right.


Ira Madison III: If we say it three times he might show up on this podcast.


Louis Virtel: Right? Don’t don’t tempt him. But anyway, it’s one of those things where I usually I’m excited for the Met gala until I realize it’s going to enable Jared Leto and then my emoji smile fades to a flatline, you know what I’m saying? Secondly, Emma Stone came to the Met gala, which I did not expect her to. I did not expect to see Emma Stone last night and she went with boring. It’s this sort of off white man, mostly white, slightly flapper fringe on the end of the dress. But it looks like something a girl would wear to her first communion or something. And I need Emma Stone to evolve to not a camp place, but to an adult commanding industry figure place. She needs to not dress up, Janelle, is what I’m saying. Ah, I’m done with the Isaiah era. I did watch that movie again recently and it’s it’s still a little childish for me. I didn’t love it. She was good in it. But I would love Emma Stone to graduate soon.


Ira Madison III: That’s still your worst show.


Louis Virtel: You think so?


Ira Madison III: I hated Easy A.


Louis Virtel: Do anything for me. I think the parents are weird in it to lots of weird choices in that movie anyway.


Ira Madison III: Do you like Crazy Stupid Love?


Louis Virtel: I like the scene where she references. She does an impression of Lauren Bacall in the High Point commercials. Otherwise, no.


Ira Madison III: Can I say by the way side now I’m I was in London this past weekend and I met up with a friend that I’ve known from Instagram for years, Johnny, and he recently discovered Keep It but referenced the fact that he also recently discovered the Lauren Bacall coffee ads because you referenced them and like didn’t know them before and brought up the fact that that scene in Crazy, Stupid Love must be so weird for people who don’t know the reference.


Louis Virtel: No, because they don’t really explain it from what they don’t either.


Ira Madison III: They don’t.


Louis Virtel: And there’s I mean, I’ve brought this up before. I’ll be quick if you haven’t seen these Lauren Bacall commercials where she’s advertising decaffeinated coffee called High Point that she says, like High Point, like it’s the it’s the angriest delivery ever. I would rarely call I would I would rather call I would rarely call anything. CAMP This is certainly campy, certainly.


Ira Madison III: But I’ve also discovered decaffeinated coffee later in life.


Louis Virtel: I enjoy it. I just like the taste of coffee.


Ira Madison III: So decaf. Yeah, I would I want coffee at night. I drink a decaf now.


Louis Virtel: And one of these commercials begins with Lauren Bacall saying, My favorite time of day is night. Which sounds like. You know, something that Son of Sam writes in a note to you or something.


Ira Madison III: Bram Stoker’s Lauren Bacall. I’d watch it.


Louis Virtel: Anyway. So Emma Stone, feel free to graduate to like a striking, you know Azealia Banks like pantsuit or something next time.


Ira Madison III: You’re not going to bring up Amy Schumer looking like she was in The Matrix.


Louis Virtel: Yeah, Amy Schumer underwhelmed too. But at the same time, like, this isn’t an event where I would expect her to be like aces or anything. You know.


Ira Madison III: She always seems like she’s at these events under duress and yet she continues to show up.


Louis Virtel: Right. I just want to say, I thought Amy Schumer did an awesome at the Oscars and people were so dismissive of the hosts of that telecast. So I just want to give a shout out to Amy Schumer, really lending jokes, every joke people were screaming at. And I feel like she didn’t get the credit for it. Moving on.


Ira Madison III: All right. I’m proud of you taking a pro-Amy Schumer stance on this podcast. We’ve had highs and lows with Amy on this show.


Louis Virtel: But good you know.


Ira Madison III: Remember when she had that Keep It knock off on Spotify the year we debuted.


Louis Virtel: Honestly no.


Ira Madison III: Neither was she probably anyway, my Keep It this week is a bit more serious. My Keep It goes to the entire circus that is the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard.


Louis Virtel: Oh my God.


Ira Madison III: Trial. I am so upset every time I see anything about it online and it actually has nothing to do with either of them or the very horrific details to come out of this trial. My Keep It goes to the way that people are treating this like it is the Patriots versus the Broncos.


Louis Virtel: Totally.


Ira Madison III: It’s like this is it’s it’s gross all around. And it is so weird how people are acting like like it’s a football game. Like like you have to choose sides. Like, one side is winning, one side is losing. They’re keeping score. I mean, it is this is these are human beings. And it’s also like a really sick situation. And the way people are sort of deriving entertainment from it is it’s sort of vile to me. Like, I don’t know if you saw that one video of like a Starbucks where customers were being asked at a drive thru who they supported, Johnny or Amber, and then like people cheering like another one for Johnny. I’m like, Oh, now, now I get it. Now I get how you know. People sat in Colosseum and watched gladiators battle to the death.


Louis Virtel: No, I can’t remember an acrimonious exes trial in recent memory that compares to this. For a couple of reasons. One, the details are utterly insane and going both ways, like reading texts from Johnny Depp to Paul Bettany are crazy. Amber Heard. But we don’t know what her story is. If there are things being fabricated, I’m not here to say one way or another which way I want it to go, as you just said. But also the intensity of Johnny Depp fans is unparalleled. It is truly up there with the Michael Jackson’s with the birds outside the courthouse thing. There’s something about him where people believe necessarily that there is a core of utter excellence that must be defended. And it’s like I too, have enjoyed whatever Sweeney Todd. I enjoyed Finding Neverland. I do not connect with Johnny Depp. I don’t know what what he did ever. I mean, is it because of Pirates of the Caribbean that people think I have to. My my happiness depends on Johnny Depp’s justice for Johnny Depp. And it’s extremely strange to behold.


Ira Madison III: That that is such a good point. I would say that Johnny Depp has never really had this hold on me never had this chokehold on me the way that he has on his fans. And I get it with Michael Jackson. Yeah, there’s that. There’s no comparison. Yeah, undeniable. I mean, he looked really good at a crop top in a nightmare on Elm Street. Crybabies, a fantastic film. So is Donny Brasco.


Louis Virtel: Give it up. Yeah ugh huh.


Ira Madison III: But. Also there is the existence of Secret Window. Dark Shadows. The Tourist.


Louis Virtel: The Rum Diary where he met Amber Heard. Yeah.


Ira Madison III: You know, like there’s I mean, yes, for every Edward Scissorhands, there are at least like two very abysmal movies within the past, like decade and a half, two decades. And I’m including every Pirates of the Caribbean movie after the second one.


Louis Virtel: In which he made like 11 figures a piece.


Ira Madison III: That are abysmal. So I can’t even really defend the the status, as, you know, like an actor as well. Anyway, the the entire thing is just very weird. And it just reveals like the worst about the humanity. And they’re acting like this is the Super Bowl.


Louis Virtel: I mean, do you remember did you hear the story about how did you hear about how somebody rushed into the courtroom with some make up packet that would prove that somebody on Amber Heard’s side was lying about something? Anyway, the fans are extreme and they’re at the courthouse in Virginia. And I hope we never have another case like this again.


Ira Madison III: Is this how Loving VS Virginia was?


Louis Virtel: That’s. Ruth Negga is standing by, smiling at a sink. “I’m Team Johnny.” Yeah.


Ira Madison III: You know what? The only exes I ever want to see battling court are Catherine Zeta-Jones and George Clooney in Intolerable Cruelty.


Louis Virtel: Oh, duh. Please remember when we used to give Catherine Zeta-Jones roles like that? What a good time for us.


Ira Madison III: Now all she does is sew pillows for her home line.


Louis Virtel: Right. I guess in a way, I’m sort of grateful that we have the glamor of acrimony. Like just, you know, it’s been so long since we’ve had a Jojo Gabor or an Elizabeth Taylor or whatever Liza minnelli. Like there was something quaint about the tabloid ization of a relationship falling apart. But also, this is utterly toxic. So I don’t mean to glamorize. I don’t mean to revel in the glamor anymore.


Ira Madison III: Yeah, if you want to revel in acrimony, Louis, I mean, Tyler Perry’s 2018 psychological thriller starring Taraji P Henson is right there.


Louis Virtel: Okay, I’ll load that up on Tubi or wherever its playing.


Ira Madison III: I’m gonna assign you that I’m going assign you that when we do Tyler Perry blind spots on this show.


Louis Virtel: Oh My God. Why did I get harried too? From watching Tyler Perry movies. Anyway. And if you want a rundown of the full Johnny Depp / Amber Heard story, the cut has a really awesome and comprehensive analysis rundown of the whole thing. So go to that.


Ira Madison III: But as I may remind you, it is not Sunday and Johnny Depp fans should stop acting, you know, like the Christians in a town where a couple of Episcopalians just moved in. Okay. You know, like there are no sides to be taken.


Louis Virtel: Right. You, you don’t win based on whatever happens.


Ira Madison III: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Louis and I can win based on whatever happens. So, Louis is team Johnny and I’m *laughs*.


Louis Virtel: Go get them Don Juan De Marco.


Ira Madison III: That’s our show. We’ll see you next week.


Ira Madison III: Keep it is a Crooked Media production. Our senior producer is Kendra James. Our producer is Chris Ward, our executive producers are Ira Madison III.


Louis Virtel: And Louis Virtel.


Ira Madison III: Our editor is Charlotte Landes and Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer.


Louis Virtel: Thank you to our digital team, Matt DeGroot, Nar Melkonian, and Delon Villanueva for our production support every week.