“The Man Queens” w. Andrea Riseborough | Crooked Media
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September 21, 2022
Keep It
“The Man Queens” w. Andrea Riseborough

In This Episode

Ira, Louis, and guest host Sam Sanders dive into The Woman King and Viola Davis’ career, Nicki Minaj’s Twitter-stemmed lawsuits, Adam Levine’s cheating scandal, Mark Wahlberg’s career choices, Cardi B’s bisexuality, and group text etiquette. Plus, Louis chats with Andrea Riseborough about her new film To Leslie and her extensive film career.




Ira Madison III [AD]


Ira Madison III And we are back for an all new episode of Keep It. I’m Ira Madison III.


Louis Virtel I’m Louis Virtel, arguably the woman king of Keep It.


Sam Sanders Wow.


Ira Madison III You’re the. Man. You’re the man queen of Keep It.


Louis Virtel Gina Prince-Bythewood, your next assignment.


Ira Madison III We are excited to have a guest host with us this week. It is Sam Sanders, fresh off of hosting NPR’s It’s Been a Minute. And now you have 12 podcasts.


Sam Sanders Listen, 12 podcasts. I got to put my dogs through dog college, okay? It’s not cheap. I’m so happy to be here with you both. I’m excited about it.


Ira Madison III I know.


Louis Virtel I’m also just thinking about dogs with liberal arts degrees. Now, I think it sounds very cute. This should be like William Wegman type photo shoot thing with dogs getting degrees.


Ira Madison III Well, you know, Hooch famously did not have a degree. You don’t need one to be a police dog, apparently.


Sam Sanders Oh, my. Oh, my.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel How many turn down the full scholarship to Juilliard? Right.


Ira Madison III How many are.


Sam Sanders You’re right. I have two jobs now.


Ira Madison III Do you have two? Yes. Okay. Vibe Check. And also you have a podcast at Vulture as well.


Sam Sanders Called Into It. Yeah. So Into It is a show with Vulture and New York Magazine. It is a weekly digest of pop culture and a showcase of the best and brightest of vulture. All kinds of stuff, deep dives into the culture of fun games, some celebrities, etc.. And then my other show is just a gap fest with two good friends of mine poet Saeed Jones and producer and Tony winner Zach Stafford. We literally had an idea during pandemic to like turn our group chat into a podcast and someone bought it. So we get together and talk about stuff we want to talk about every Wednesday. So Wednesdays and Thursdays.


Louis Virtel I want to say, by the way, that most people I feel like half the universe has the idea to turn their group chat into a podcast, and I need to discourage that right now. I don’tt want to see that or hear it, generally speaking. Sam Sanders I’m going to allow from you and Saeed.


Sam Sanders Thank you.


Louis Virtel Who is a Keep It veteran. Yeah.


Ira Madison III But Zach is too.


Louis Virtel Oh, that’s right.


Sam Sanders Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Louis Virtel Actually we invented your podcast. So.


Sam Sanders Thank you. Thank you all so much. Y’all’s cut is in the mail. Appreciate it.


Ira Madison III It’s technically a spinoff, actually. You know what? You are, you were the last of them to, you you’re the last of your co-hosts to be on this show. And yet we have been on your show before. I think we’ve been.


Sam Sanders Y’all came on my last show.


Ira Madison III I’ve been like two or three times before.


Sam Sanders I feel like you might have been and then I’ve been with your colleagues over at Pod Save a few times and I’ve hung with Mr. Lovett a few times, so I’m just happy that I finally made it here. The promise land.


Louis Virtel Oh, I didn’t.


Sam Sanders The promise land of Crooked.


Louis Virtel I did not know you were a liberal hack. It’s good to know.


Sam Sanders I am, I am. Yeah. Oh, yes. Oh, yes.


Ira Madison III You know what’s funny about a group chat as a podcast? Is that my favorite thing about a group text is that. So you start with a group thread that’s maybe like 8 to 10 people there. Either you’re close friends or you’re acquaintances, people that you hang out with socially, or a lot of group chats or forums from a vacation. I love those.


Sam Sanders Those are hard.


Ira Madison III Travel with people are they are hard but it’s like if they’re your friends then that’s good. But like if there’s like a couple other random people in there, it’s always funny thinking about like the six of us keep talking after the vacation’s over and there’s like two or three people in the thread who are like, I wish they would shut the fuck up.


Sam Sanders Well, and then there’s always that, like, one inside joke from the vacation that was only funny on the vacation. Yet that one person wants to keep bringing it up every like three days. And you’re like, We’ve moved on. We have moved on.


Louis Virtel And also we still have a bond without that joke. You don’t the joke to gel.


Ira Madison III Yeah, but the flip side of that is that it is useful to still bully the friend who, you know, like booked a bad Airbnb.


Sam Sanders Well, that’s true.


Ira Madison III I’m shouting out, I’m shouting out my friend, Chris Erickgon, who will never live down the fact that he booked a horrible Airbnb for us in Barcelona.


Sam Sanders How? How horrible was that?


Ira Madison III No air conditioning.


Sam Sanders Yeah, no. And you can check for that. You can check for that.


Ira Madison III And lies. Bedroom lies. What?


Sam Sanders That sounds like an erotic thriller. Bedroom Lies.


Ira Madison III One of the beds was a cot in a bathroom.


Louis Virtel Oh, my God.


Sam Sanders That’s not legal. Yeah, you can do that?


Ira Madison III I don’t know what they could do in Barcelona. Okay. It’s. It’s a whole other world over there.


Louis Virtel I just want to say that Sam is in a chic looking Airbnb.


Sam Sanders I’m currentlly.  Yeah


Louis Virtel Which. Which calls to mind the question. Who is the definitive San Antonio celebrity? It’s a gigantic city, and I can’t think of anybody who’s from there. Google. There’s a telling. Jared Padalecki.


Ira Madison III Yeah, yeah. Okay, well.


Sam Sanders Who is that?


Ira Madison III Can we not disrespect Supernatural on this thread?


Louis Virtel It’s on its 444th season. On the Reelz Channel.


Sam Sanders I’m gonna tell you the biggest stars in San Antonio. So I went to college here. I went to the University of the Incarnate Word. And Eva Longoria’s character’s husband on Desperate Housewives is also an Incarnate Word alum.


Ira Madison III Carlos.


Sam Sanders Yes. Also, Selena is not from San Antonio, but San Antonio claims Selena.


Ira Madison III Okay.


Sam Sanders Also out of.


Louis Virtel San Antonio.


Ira Madison III Megan Thee Stallion was born in San Antonio.


Sam Sanders I didn’t know that. But she reps Houston.


Ira Madison III She reps, Houston. Yeah, you know.


Sam Sanders Also. So when I was a kid, the Spurs were like the best team in the NBA. And some of those players are still classic icons like David Robinson, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, those dudes, we still rap them hard.


Ira Madison III Well, Eva Longoria’s ex-husband.


Sam Sanders Yes, yes, yeah.


Ira Madison III Yeah. The Eva and Tony era was that was quaint, you know. I loved it


Sam Sanders It was listen, they were like the king and queen of San Antonio. You couldn’t tell us nothing. We had our Jay-Z and Beyonce down here and then they broke up.


Louis Virtel I’m going to warn you that in the future, if you bring up Spurs, you better be talking about something that Reba is wearing. Okay. I don’t want to hear that on my podcast.


Sam Sanders Listen, that’s the extension of  my basketball knowledge. That is.


Ira Madison III Okay.


Louis Virtel Good. Nice save.


Sam Sanders Thank you.


Ira Madison III Louis wants to talk about Shane for an hour. Okay, that’s that’s what we’re to get into.


Louis Virtel Alan Ladd. Yes. Brandon Wilde, one of the great child actors. See, you’ve set me off.


Sam Sanders I love it.


Ira Madison III Anyway, I’m so excited to have you here this week.


Sam Sanders It’s good to be here. I love your show. Y’all have been a companion to me for a long time. And there are many road trips where, like, I can remember things you’ve said at a certain point when I was like on the 10 driving home, like, this is nice for me. This is really good.


Louis Virtel Oh, how nice of you.


Sam Sanders I appreciate y’all.


Ira Madison III Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s, it’s wild that we’ve been doing this for five years. It’s, it’s I want to ask you that, too. How long did you do NPR?


Sam Sanders I was at NPR, I would say in my exit interviews and press stuff. It it was 12 years. It was actually 13 years. I just don’t say 13 a lot. It’s an unlucky number, but I went right to graduate school after undergrad and then right to NPR after that. So I started interning for the local station in Boston and 2009, and I was basically public radio ever since then.


Ira Madison III Okay. How long was It’s Been A Minute.


Sam Sanders It’s Been A Minute. Was I was it almost five years? And before that, I had hosted the NPR Politics podcast for about a year and a half.


Louis Virtel Jesus Christ. Lucille Ball, all these fucking syndicated series, all of the place.


Sam Sanders  Working. She’s working.


Louis Virtel Your next one Is here.  Yeah, yeah.


Ira Madison III You know, we are, we’re approached five years in January, but this is just this just going on like a Chuck Laurie show.


Louis Virtel Oh, yes. I love it.


Ira Madison III We have nothing better to do.


Louis Virtel Still getting Emmy nominations for Allison Janney.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III All right. We’re going to get our show started. We are going to talk about some of the films that we’ve seen lately. What’s exciting is that we want to get Sam’s thoughts on the culture at large. We’re going to focus on the Woman King, which came out this weekend.  Have a lot of thoughts.


Louis Virtel Me, too.


Ira Madison III Yeah. We’re also going to talk about Nicki Minaj. Unfortunately.


Sam Sanders I tried to read up on that before we started today. And I was like, there’s too much to read up on. Y’all got a lot on me.


Ira Madison III There is far too much. And I feel like we’ve we’ve addressed it and now it’s it’s time. It’s time to actually address her. The Barbs and my my life as a Barb.


Sam Sanders I don’t want to get doxxed. I don’t want to get doxxed after this taping’s over.


Louis Virtel Nicki Minaj is marriage to the Internet is fraught. It’s fraught.


Sam Sanders To say the least.


Louis Virtel And also, I have a solo interview which is should be unbearably intimate for everybody at home with the awesome Andrea Riseborough, who I came to know as Wallis Simpson and Madonna’s W.E. all those years ago. But she is a fabulous actress who is now a new movie called To Leslie, which is an astounding performance in the interview. I compare her to a few actresses that I never would have compared Andrea Riseborough, too, before. She’s an utter chameleon. So psyched she’s with us today.


Ira Madison III Is that a Judd Apatow biopic?


Louis Virtel To Leslie?


Sam Sanders Yes.


Louis Virtel And not to Muade. Yeah. Just to Leslie.


Ira Madison III All right. We have a lot more Keep It coming up. We will be right back.


Louis Virtel <A.D.>.


Ira Madison III We keep saying this every week, but, you know, the cinema is back. And.


Sam Sanders It really is.


Ira Madison III This weekend we really saw a glut of new releases. And there’s a bunch of things coming out soon, too, that I feel like we’re either excited for or not excited for. So let’s get to those first. The Woman King, I think, is fantastic. I enjoyed it as a film, as a cinematic experience. Did I love everything about it? No. But it felt like I was watching. It felt like it accomplished what producer, Maria Bello.


Louis Virtel And screenwriter, Maria Bello. What? In the randomizer on ladies celebs who could have written this movie. So costar of Duets, Maria Bello.


Ira Madison III Walking around with her fedora on Prime Suspect, Maria Bello.


Louis Virtel That’s the same. Yes.


Ira Madison III But she talked about wanting to create a Braveheart, starring women. And you know what? I think this film is just about as good as Braveheart. Maybe better, because it doesn’t have Mel Gibson in it.


Louis Virtel That’s true. I would have loved a Sofia Marceau cameo. But you know what? In the in Dahomey, I don’t feel like, you know, Sophia would be walking around. So I sort of understand.


Sam Sanders Is there like a place called Dahomey?


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Sam Sanders That funny.


Louis Virtel So a real kingdom from, like, the early 19th century. It’s in modern day Benin in Africa.


Sam Sanders Okay.


Louis Virtel But, yeah, Gina Prince-Bythewood is the director who did Love and Basketball and Beyond the Lights. And I have to say, like you would not guess she directed those movies. This is an intense and serious epic with Viola Davis giving her character has qualities that you’ve seen on Viola Davis before. Like there’s the stalwart, the, you know, seemingly immovable, the all powerful, but with, like, her heart and tough wisdom behind the eyes. But it’s also not like a Viola Davis I’ve seen before.


Sam Sanders How so?


Louis Virtel And that I don’t know. She’s so she’s so militaristic in a way that I don’t know. In a way, I think Viola Davis characters are supposed to be, like, generally relatable to us. Like, our inner strength is her inner strength. And this is not that. She’s like.


Sam Sanders Really.


Louis Virtel Far advanced, I would say. And also what this movie to me is really about is the continuing rise of Lashana Lynch, who we loved in the James Bond films, but are in the James Bond film and No Time to Die. Correct. And she is first of all, she gets a lot of opportunity in this movie, in this movie, as somebody who’s kind of training this young soldier girl to be a fierce, one, but two, so funny the amount of like comic side eye she gets to deal in and the amount of playful condescension she gets to do. Stellar. I’m really looking forward to her in more stuff.


Ira Madison III Hmm. Yeah. Lashana Lynch is sort of, like, just sort of, like, fantastic for me in this film. And what’s actually interesting about the film, Sam, is that it it’s caused a bit of Twitter brouhaha at first.


Sam Sanders Wait, why?


Ira Madison III What doesn’t? What doesn’t? But the story is about two warring African nations and it addresses the fact that, you know, like African nations used to sell the captives of other nations to slavers, European slavers, you know, and it’s a it addresses a part of history that I feel like we don’t really talk about. And the fact that, you know, like, obviously, you know, white people didn’t just come to Africa and like scoop up everybody on their own. You know, it’s there was a lot of sort of fraught history in this. And the idea that, you know, like, yes, you are fighting people with, you know, muskets and guns and, you know, they have gold and they, you know, come in and they convince you that, you know, turning against one another is for your benefit. It happens. That happens globally. That has happened everywhere.


Sam Sanders Yeah.


Ira Madison III You know?


Sam Sanders Did, did people were they mad that it was even in there at all?


Ira Madison III Yes.


Sam Sanders Or were they mad because the way they did it wasn’t historically accurate?


Ira Madison III That it was in there at all. They were mad before the movie even came out. I mean, the same way that people were mad in Harriet, you know, with the idea that someone would turn in the slaves who were trying to escape. It was quite I mean, it’s happened. Okay.


Sam Sanders Yes. Yes. I haven’t seen this movie yet. I’ve heard good things. I love that director. I think Beyond the Lights is pretty incredible. I think Love and Basketball is a classic.


Ira Madison III Is it’s one of my favorite fucking movies. Beyond the Lights.


Sam Sanders It’s so good.


Ira Madison III Like we don’t talk about how good that movie is. And unfortunately it like came out right before, like the Nate Parker scandal happenned, but


Sam Sanders Yeah.


Ira Madison III He is so.


Sam Sanders He is great.


Ira Madison III He’s so good in that film.


Sam Sanders Yeah. What I keep wondering in the launch of this movie and the launch has gone well. I want to say it made some $19 million its first weekend at the box office. Really good for this time of year. I was worried about the Woman King, because I’m like, Oh, we’re just waiting for Black Panther, the sequel, do you want to watch this movie? But it seems like that didn’t hurt them. They made some good money. Apparently it was well-received at TIFF. Viola Davis doing Viola Davis. There’s even already. I don’t know. Check me on this. There’s some Oscar buzz for her for this. Maybe. Possibly. I don’t know what the.


Ira Madison III People are calling it a career best for Viola Davis. And it would be nice.


Sam Sanders Isn’teverything she does is career best?Right?


Louis Virtel No, her job is to deliver career best. That’s what she is.


Sam Sanders Yes.


Louis Virtel But that said, I mean, of course, never count her out. I think this is one of the most exciting best actress races in years, because we have her we have Michelle Yeoh, who is still looming large in the conversation. We have Cate Blanchett in the upcoming movie Tar, which I feel like is going to sincerely light me on fire, like I’m going to walk out of the theater with embers shooting off me. Olivia Colman is back. And as we know, remember that one year she menaced Glenn Close and it worked out. It was nasty, but I respected it.


Ira Madison III Didn’t she do that two years in a row.


Louis Virtel She has three nominations already. Yeah.


Sam Sanders Wow.


Louis Virtel So not it wasn’t it wasn’t all one year after the other, but three nominations.


Sam Sanders Here’s my question for you both. And here’s what I keep waiting for Viola Davis to do. I want to see if she can do comedy. Is there any comedy from her in this movie?


Louis Virtel Yes. I would say so.


Sam Sanders  Any humor?Okay.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel Okay. In the same way that Lashana Lynch gets to be, like, so tough and wise that, like, dealing with other people is an eyeroll to her.


Sam Sanders Yeah.


Louis Virtel Viola Davis gets some of that and really just the most withering looks, actually, I would describe it as Maggie Smith comedy, what Viola Davis does in this movie.


Sam Sanders Okay, I want that. Well, I also.


Ira Madison III She was funny in Suicide Squad two, but I would say she is not been afforded comedy in the way that she has been afforded romantic comedy, I guess. And maybe that’s what you’re missing, because I remember.


Sam Sanders I think so.


Ira Madison III There’s always those you know, she always is like giving a great speech somewhere. And she’s always referred to the fact that people refer to her, you know, as like black Meryl Streep. But I don’t get these black Meryl Streep roles. And you what you think about Meryl at the height of her career when she was doing like an Out of Africa but then was also doing you know, like a Death Becomes Her. But then also doing like a Heartburn. I’m like, I think heartburn is boring, but I would love to see.


Sam Sanders It is.


Ira Madison III But I would love to see a Viola Davis Heartburn.


Sam Sanders What I want to see is a Viola Davis’ black Mamma Mia. And the music is not Abba. The music is, who is a classic? A black classic music group. Frankie Beverly Mays. All of their hits.


Louis Virtel Please. Oh, my God.


Sam Sanders That’s what I want. I also got to say, when I think about Viola Davis in this movie, which I’m going to see before this week is done, I’m just glad to have her back in a movie. She had gotten into this not rut, I’m sure was very lucrative for her. She was on a really big, long speaking circuit, giving her little motivational speeches and sermons everywhere. I tried to watch the one she did with Oprah, where they just sat down and talked about therapy speak for an hour. She’s good at that, but I’m like, I want to see you act. So I’m glad she’s back on a screen acting. I like that.


Louis Virtel That’s the thing about Viola Davis is she always gives you the performance that you expect from her. But then her speaking thing is always in tandem. Like she brings the game that goes with it. I want to see the meeting that goes into Viola Davis campaigning, because I’ve just never seen somebody at an awards circuit who seems to have banked so much information. Like like she’ll always reference, like, I don’t know, like, like crazy things that you wouldn’t know off the top of your head. And it almost seems like she can predict questions and stuff. She’s she’s a really smart campaigner and also just I mean, rad person, obviously additional.


Sam Sanders But it feels like she’s constantly preparing a sermon and they’re good sermons. Yes.


Louis Virtel Yes.


Sam Sanders Yeah, it is a thing.


Ira Madison III One thing I also want to say about the film, too, is that, you know, she’s sort of you know, we got to the typical thing that happens with a black big budget, you know, a sort of mainstream film is going to go where people are like, you know, if you want to see more of these, you know, you need to like actually go and support it. You know, we feel that it’s like black people, Sam, we feel that as like queer people, Louis, You know, all three of us, too. But like, I like that this movie is actually good, too, because a lot of times people say, like, you got to bring your dollars to support, Black cinema and then I’ll go see the movie and I’m  like it’s bad and that.


Sam Sanders And It’s also it’s a like.


Ira Madison III This is thankfully good.


Sam Sanders Yes. These studios have more money than they know what to do with, and


Ira Madison III They don’t give a fuck.


Sam Sanders They’ll spend $1,000,000,000 to reboot Lord of the Rings. So they have the money. And if they want to support it, it doesn’t matter what the last movie did or not, because, you know, no one’s saying if we don’t support Cha-Cha real smooth, we’re not going to make another white boy indie comedy. Like, they’re not saying that, you know, I’m saying, like, this is this is what’s wild to me. Like, they can make whatever movie they want to.


Ira Madison III I know, I actually wish it had a bigger budget. To be honest, I do like my two knocks against it where I feel like they needed more sets. But also, you know, there were some COVID problems, too. So, like, I could get it, but I just what I want it to feel more expansive than just inside the palace. I wanted it to feel as more epic as Braveheart. I don’t really like movies like that, but I did love this movie and enjoy watching it. So I’m like, maybe I just don’t like movies like that about white men. And to Maria Bello story credit. And then I believe Dana Steven’s right, is the screenwriter who’s done, you know, she did she created What about Brian? She wrote City of Angels. Life or Something Like It. Definitely had a white woman vibe to it a bit because it did not need.


Sam Sanders The Woman King?


Ira Madison III Yeah, it didn’t need the mulatto love story that’s in it .


Sam Sanders Not mulatto? Not mulatto?


Ira Madison III Truly, one of the plot points is there’s a slaver who comes at one of his friends, comes along with him, but he’s mixed because his mother was sold from the Dahomey tribe and had always talked about that was the place where she was most free. So he visit so that he could see where his mother came from. And he plays into the story in a romantic way. And I was like,Yeah, a white woman wrote this.


Sam Sanders Wow. We can say not to be racist, but every time I’ll say Dahomey, I want to respond. No, You Da homie. That’s rude. I’m sorry.


Louis Virtel I think You can say that, I think that’s fair.


Sam Sanders Okay.


Louis Virtel And also, I think I am that. So, yeah, it would really be shocking to me. I just want to say a tangent. You just brought up the movie City of Angels. What a crazy moment in time where at least everybody I knew saw that movie and everybody I knew owned the soundtrack for this because the Goo Goo Dolls, right? Goo Goo Goo Dolls were on it, Iris. And then also we were desperately waiting for Alanis Morissette’s second album and it wasn’t coming out. So she put out the single Uninvited on there and it became that sensation jams.


Sam Sanders That song jams. Alanis did that song.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel Drama.


Sam Sanders Yes.


Ira Madison III Sarah McLachlan’s Angel was in that film, too.


Sam Sanders Yeah. I mean, also, every time.


Ira Madison III There’s a U2.


Sam Sanders Yeah, there were two or three videos from that soundtrack that were on VH1 for like two years straight. You could not not see Iris on VH1 every day.


Louis Virtel Oh, yeah, no city. I mean, VH1 basically ntingchanged its name to the City of Angels Network.


Ira Madison III So that’s also what I mean when you talk about like wanting Viola Davis in something comedic, not even comedic. I want. She always has to play something


Sam Sanders You want, black mama mia. I’m telling you, you want black Mama Mia.


Ira Madison III She always has to play the hardened . And then I like black Mama Mia, but like, she always has to play sort of like something hard end. And I’m like, I miss like, I miss like a City of Angels, you know? And I don’t think we really got a lot of like some of those are like films like that for so many of our black female leads. And I feel like, you know, give them something, give them some some tenderness, some Al Green.


Sam Sanders I also wonder, though, is that what she wants? At this point in her career, she probably can tell folks what she wants to do and probably can get some folks to write her a project. But maybe she does not want to do that.


Ira Madison III She always says at her sermons that she can’t though.


Sam Sanders I feel like at a certain point that is less true than you say. I just.


Ira Madison III Like she’s so fulfilling?


Sam Sanders You know, like not to not to cast aspersion, but like if Viola Davis went to her team and said, I need a rom com, they could get her a rom com at this point. Am I wrong to think that?


Ira Madison III Yeah, well, we also don’t really make adult rom coms anymore. You know, I’m looking forward to the.


Sam Sanders The George Clooney, Julia Roberts. I’ve watched the trailer five times. It looks so great.


Ira Madison III The trailer tells you everything, but I don’t care. I saw that there was a Vanity Fair interview that was going around with them like a video one. And it’s just like, remember chemistry?


Sam Sanders I remember movie stars. Remember movie stars? We used to have movie stars.


Louis Virtel I just want to say I cannot get over in general how as a teenager, how wrong I was about Julia Roberts. I really I took her for granted. And I thought she would just always be in every movie forever. And I don’t know, I guess I thought her appeal was bland. Excuse me. Julia Roberts is, first of all, hilarious.


Sam Sanders Yes.


Louis Virtel Second of all, obviously, I’m just an amazing presence, period. But watching this interview with George Clooney, you’re just reminded like. There’s something sizzling about her and also a bit of a Don’t Fuck With Me vibe, to which I love hanging under everything she says like, Oh, I can be charming. For now. You know, it’s like a little bit of a threat in there. I like it.


Sam Sanders Well, yeah. I feel like movie stars like her and like George Clooney and just like the big ones of yesteryear and a few from today, like Keke Palmer, they have this quality where they know they’re hot, they know they’re cool, they know they’re fun, and they aren’t afraid of it. They’re not afraid of it. And that confidence just pulls you in even more. And I feel like a lot of these new celebrities that come up on social or Instagram or TikTok, they’re performing timidity in a way that I find repulsive.


Louis Virtel And relatable.


Sam Sanders Be a star


Louis Virtel That relatability.


Sam Sanders Yeah. Like Julia Roberts is not like you. She’s cooler than you. She’s hotter than you, but she’s nice and you love it, right? And I just. I want more of that energy. Like she’s an alpha. Alpha movie stars. I love that.


Ira Madison III So I feel like that’s why I liked the Don’t Worry, Darling press story stuff with Florence Pugh, because I felt.


Sam Sanders Not to make it about Don’t Worry, Darling.


Ira Madison III That’s what it felt like. She felt like a star. You know, it felt like we hadn’t had a moment where it’s like you had silly Hollywood gossip about a film and like an actor or that a director, like, feuding with each other or like on, you know, on set drama. And it felt like everything about her arrival at Venice like and everything swirling around it. It felt like a star again, you know, it wasn’t trying to be like, Oh, I’m relatable. I want to do this. It was like, no, you were like. Let her do what she want to do. You know she has it. I feel like Zendaya has it and.


Sam Sanders Zendaya has it.


Ira Madison III Timothee Chalamet has it.


Louis Virtel Yes, quite.


Ira Madison III I think that Timothee Chalamet does have it. He might annoy you but.


Sam Sanders He annoys me.


Louis Virtel .But that’s unacceptable.You can’t be in a movie stars. You can’t  be into movie stars and dislike Timothee Chalamet. You know what it is in a way that no other male actor is.


Sam Sanders You know what it is? It’s because I saw those videos of him from high school when he would walk around rapping in high school and I didn’t like that


Louis Virtel Oh, which I did, which I did forget about which I did.


Sam Sanders I didn’t like that.


Louis Virtel Also, why did I forgot about it? Because my brain couldn’t handle it, you know? So chemically I expelled that.


Sam Sanders I figured it out. The black Mama Mia, starring Viola Davis, will have a soundtrack of only Stevie Wonder classics.


Louis Virtel It could be that. Or Earth, Wind and Fire.


Sam Sanders Oh, yeah. Yeah.


Louis Virtel That’s actually Stevie Wonder might be better might be a bigger range there. And you get some ballads like you would with ABBA, too, you know? You can turn But For Once In My Life into a big climactic.


Sam Sanders Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.


Ira Madison III If it’s Earth, Wind and Fire, though, the movie is called like September and it’s about a wedding that was on the 21st of September.And this couple is divorced now and they’re remembering the 21st of September. And you know what? It was probably also like a double wedding between two friends, two couples. None of them speak any more. And now they are for some reason brought back together because their kids are getting married on the 21st of September.


Sam Sanders Can we write this? And where is this film set? Don’t say Atlanta. Let’s be more adventurous.


Ira Madison III Not Atlanta. This is set like.


Sam Sanders Martha’s Vineyard? Martha’s Vineyard


Ira Madison III Mm hmm.


Louis Virtel Oh, cute.


Ira Madison III But I think what the foreign thing too, you want like.


Louis Virtel Serpentine Fire. Where are we going to play that? You know what I mean?


Ira Madison III Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah.


Sam Sanders Where are we going to set this movie? Let’s put it in.


Ira Madison III Jamaica.


Sam Sanders Let’s make a circle back. This is the project. Oh.


Ira Madison III Jamaica,The Bahamas.


Sam Sanders Yeah. Yeah. This is a winning movie.


Ira Madison III Okay.


Sam Sanders Write this. Write this.


Louis Virtel Seems easy.


Ira Madison III Thank You know, before. Before we wrap this up, has anyone seen literally any other movie that they’ve cared about?


Louis Virtel Well, I want to say that I’m coming out in a second is Bros, the Billy Eichner rom com. It’ll be in theaters. Lukee Macfarlane. Also like tons of queer actors are in this. And I just want to say, in the run up to this movie coming out and there’s been a lot of fans there about the fact that it’s the first gay rom com and a theater and stuff. I just feel like full disclosure, I wrote for Billy on the street. Billy’s a friend of ours. We see him all the time, whatever. I personally just want to say I feel like not enough has been said about how original a voice Billy Eichner has been just period. He basically has invented an entire lane of comedy and like introduced it to people. And not only was it fucking hilarious, but he really used a bunch of qualities about being a gay guy. I have not seen in a lot of other comedy period and that that it’s exposed to so many people and they love it. For example, they like finding the average pop culture opinion monotonous. Like going up to somebody on the street, be like, Shut the fuck up. You think that? Like, that’s what’s up. Resting in a lot of gay people’s heads. Like, I have to put up with your mediocrity, even though I, as a gay man, have assigned myself to be a pop culture custodian and historian. And. And somehow your opinion means more than mine because I’m some weirdo. I just have appreciated his voice even before I worked for him. The angst he brings, the just the the volume of the comedy, it’s just like it was all completely new in so many different ways. And I’m glad we’re going to get to see that in Bro’s, which.


Sam Sanders I’m excited about it.


Louis Virtel Which is a hilarious film, so.


Sam Sanders I’m going to see it because I’m going to be interviewing Guy Branum about it. He worked on it.


Louis Virtel Oh, Keep It legend.


Sam Sanders Yes, and his last book is so good. I’m just like, I’m excited to just see the movie. You know, there’s there’s so much chatter and dialog around the conversations around the thing. It’s time for the thing, and I can’t wait to see it.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. This year has been a big year for conversations around movies again. You know, there.


Sam Sanders Discourse about Discourse about Discourses.


Ira Madison III Yeah, the Discourse about Bros and Fire Island. And  it was just so funny because it’s like, obviously, like so many people from Fire Island are in Bros or like they’re all friends with each other and, you know, it’s, it’s that and that, you know, there’s discourse. I mean, this fucking movie, Blonde comes out this weekend and I’m like, I’m already tired of hearing about this.


Sam Sanders The Ana de Armas one?


Ira Madison III Yeah, I already tired of hearing about it.


Sam Sanders You know, she said that Marilyn Monroe haunted the set.


Ira Madison III I know. And I’m listen bitch. Like if the ghost is haunting you, if you were filming the movie where she died and you were and you were getting haunted. Get the fuck out.


Sam Sanders Molly, you in danger, girl.


Louis Virtel I must say, is that a good thing? Yeah


Ira Madison III That is that is literally like House on Haunted Hill. Okay. But it’s like there’s a horror movie about The Making of Blonde where you’re shooting a movie where Marilyn Monroe died, and she’s like, I’ve had it with y’all.


Louis Virtel Can you believe it? Only six or seven more movies away from understanding where Marilyn Monroe is coming from.


Sam Sanders Wow.


Louis Virtel I love mythologizing this basic problem she has. Anyway.


Sam Sanders Who plays.


Ira Madison III You know who is next? You know who’s next, though? Like, I can’t believe that we already have a new Elvis movie coming out.


Sam Sanders Oh, we do? We do?


Louis Virtel Sell the movie.


Ira Madison III Sofia Coppola is making Priscilla. And I’m like, We are already getting to the point now. I’m like, Is Elvis next or Priscilla or something? As opposed to celebrity that we’re like, Here’s a bunch of movies is about a him. Him and also.


Louis Virtel It should take place entirely behind the scenes on the movie The Naked Gun, like well after Elvis has died.


Ira Madison III And. You know, speaking of like, that’s another reason to take it back to the Woman King. I like hearing a new sort of like original story, original the sense that we haven’t seen this story so much before with like it’s new information to us. I’m like, there’s the Ryan Murphy Jeffrey Dahmer thing coming out and I’m like, aren’t we tired of tha bitch?


Sam Sanders I don’t need that. I don’t need that. What I need is September, the black Mama Mia starring Viola Davis. Whose her love interest to close the loop. Who is her love interest?


Louis Virtel Mm hmm.


Ira Madison III Well, who can sing?


Louis Virtel Yeah. Is Stokes Mitchell around? What’s he up to?


Ira Madison III Hmm. Yeah. Brian Stokes Mitchell.


Sam Sanders Jamie Foxx can sing, but.


Louis Virtel Oh Jamie Foxx.


Sam Sanders Jamie Foxx. Jamie Foxx.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Okay.


Sam Sanders Now can Viola sing? That’s the question. Can Viola sing?


Ira Madison III Can Meryl?


Louis Virtel But I have to say, when I see Meryl Streep sing in a movie, I’m like, okay, fine. I mean, it’s just not the thing I need from her. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Okay. Ricki. Ricki and the flash in the pan.


Louis Virtel The Gene Shalit jumped out.


Sam Sanders Goodness. Oh, my goodness.


Ira Madison III Be serious, Sam. Anyway.


Louis Virtel When we’re back, my interview with the great Andrea Riseborough.




Louis Virtel Honestly, this person is so talented. I’m frightened by her, but she’s been nothing but nice so far. So that’s where I’m at with this interview. We are talking to a woman you’ve seen in oblivion. Birdman, Bloodline, Nocturnal Animals, A Battle of the Sexes. W E, she was astounding in. And anyway, she has a new movie, To Leslie, out October 7th. We are delighted to welcome to Keep It, the enchanting and frankly downright gifted, Andrea Riseborough. Thanks for being here.


Andrea Riseborough That. That was absolutely lovely. Thanks.


Louis Virtel You’re like, okay, now, whatever.


Andrea Riseborough No, no, no. I’m like, come back anytime.


Louis Virtel Okay. First of all, this movie, the actors you remind me of in this movie, I would have never associated with you before. Like I kept thinking of like Holly Hunter I thought of Anne Heche, I thought of Melissa Leo. Is it a burden to be this versatile? Because I don’t mean to say that just to flatter you like I almost you have you don’t have a type. And so if I’m a casting director, I don’t immediately think of you for these roles that you are extremely capable of playing because you are so across the board. It’s, it’s it’s strange.


Andrea Riseborough I mean, I’ve always thought it would be very boring just to spend my life sort of exploring my own facets.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Andrea Riseborough In my work. I mean, it’s very interesting to do that outside of work. But it’s such a great gift when you are able to. You know, in a meaningful and changing way, step into a completely different walk of life. And it’s such a rare odyssey of a profession in that way, then I always think what a shame it would be not to make that journey. And believe me, sometimes I’ve I’ve tried in a sense in the sense that sometimes. You do feel like playing close to yourself and. Not that that’s comfortable. That’s also uncomfortable for a myriad of different reasons, partly because then you’re very feel very exposed and seen. Or at least I do. But. But the most rewarding, valuable engagements I’ve had in work I’ve always been, or I’ve made the decision to travel toward the character rather than pull the character kicking and screaming back toward me. And I think might be pretty boring anyway. I mean, I’m not like the most boring person in the world, but also, how many times do you want to explore? You know, I think we all get a little bit sick of exploring. You know, one actor with all of their glorious facets that they have over and over and over again in different scenarios, rather than exploring different characters in different walks of life. I think if you have the ability to to be malleable, you know, if if things like physical, the change of your physical rhythm and accents are available to you, then it’s really fascinating because in a way, it’s almost like learning to speak a new language. You start to think and think and feel in a different way when you approach life from someone else’s perspective.


Louis Virtel Well, I’m happy to hear that because again, your performance, I can’t relate it to anything else you’ve done. And so my question is, in order to get into this character, who is a woman who at one point won the lottery but has squandered those winnings and is now in dire straits with her family. But life is a terrible alcoholic. What has prepared you for this role and how long did it take you to, quote unquote, get into character?


Andrea Riseborough I think I think for every role possibly in play, your life prepares you for in a sense because there’s nothing that prepares you better for tackling somebody else’s life than having experiences in your own. But there were lots of things that I think, firstly, what drew me to the peace was the fact that Michael, who I’d worked with on Bloodline, was actually a showrunner on Bloodline. That’s where we started our relationship. We have a quite long working relationship now and it’s been so wonderful to work with Michael. He was the keeper of all knowledge on Bloodline in the sense it was almost like him because as you know in the US a showrunner is very much a director, almost like at the helm of the theater production or whatever. You know, he’s really the only person encompasses every moving part of this very best story that you’re trying to catalog in a series. So he and I became close, in terms of wanting to do something again, he then brought this project to me and Ryan, a writer or screenwriter who’s a very brilliant screenwriter, and finally wanted to tell the story of his own mother and perhaps wanted to give her. I think he’s not said this to me, but I feel like perhaps he gave her the ending that she wasn’t able to have in life through cinema. You know, sadly, she passed away not very long ago. And because the story was so personal and written by somebody in our industry who was both in our industry already as a an established, hugely competent writer that was telling his own story, it felt special and personal and. Leslie felt like, you know, I had access to Leslie through those that outlived her. So I was able to talk to our writer about the vivacity of her and the abandon with which she approached life. And the character in so many ways felt so familiar to me. I’m from Newcastle in the north east of England. It’s it’s a lot of fun. It’s very it’s quite a cold place in terms of temperature, but it’s a warm place in people’s hearts. And there’s a sort of reckless abandon that comes along with enjoying life there. It’s a it’s a sort of party city. And that’s the. Although in a sense I couldn’t have stayed there, personally. It was less my interest. Leslie holds that, and in so many ways she holds. She’s such a such an extraordinarily fun person to be around. And that can also decimate really everybody in her path. So she’s a. And you simultaneously want to take care of her. And to distance to distance itself from her. And she feels that she feels that, you know, she innately feels that rejection because she’s very intuitive. It. Really, she only operates intuitively. She’s a very intuitive character.


Louis Virtel I mean, going back to Vivien Leigh in Gone With the Wind, there seems to be a trend of English women really understanding Southern characters, Southern U.S. characters. And I was wondering if you had any insight into why historically, you know, you people are so good at this.


Andrea Riseborough It’s a really, really unique and fascinating question. Perhaps it’s colonialism. The class system. I mean, if you think about something like you mentioned, Gone with the Wind. So. So that puts us in the realm of Scarlett O’Hara. Somebody in the upper echelons of southern society. It’s very, very different to, to this character, Leslie, who very much feels. Who is on the because of her. Inability to function in the world. She’s very much on the on them. The rubbish heap really in a sense she’s she has so far to look upwards. And. I think perhaps because of the very structured and restraining class system that still bubbles up now and then. In the UK. The similarity between a, you know, a working class underdog, perhaps in the north of England or wherever. And and this in the south of in the south and the south of America.


Louis Virtel Like this character is not from the South, but even watching Kate Winslet in Mare of Easttown I a part of me thought. And yet you’re perfect for this role, even though I’ve not seen you do something like this and you’re certainly not from Pennsylvania. You know, the math of it still astounds me.


Andrea Riseborough And Kate would. I mean, in my opinion, Kate would be really perfect in anything she chose to turn her hand to. And that’s because she has an innate capacity to embrace a world in which she’s hugely interested, you know, or to to enter into a narrative or a story that that compels her. And I’m actually just about, Kate and I are about to do, not the film that I’m shooting at the minute, but the film after that and the project after that. We’re about to do two projects back to back together. So it’s funny you should mention that. I’ve really always admired that in Kate that she that she really makes that journey with every tool that she has toward the character should she choose to to play it. So we’re making a film. Really my heart’s in film and theater, you know. Still, I’m not. I struggle a lot with anything episodic, which is why it was such a lovely thing after Bloodline to make To Leslie with Michael and to get the to have the freedom and the breadth that cinema affords you in terms of developing a character and staying with them for a substantial period of time rather than the main concern being plot or a plethora of other things. But no, I’m making a film with Kate. It’s called Lee, and it’s based on the life of Lee Miller. And in the film, I play Audrey Withers, who was the editor of Vogue in the Second World War during the Second World War in London. She was actually editor of Vogue for over the 20 years, but she but she throughout the Second World War was the editor of Vogue. She’s uniquely not particularly interested in fashion. She’s quite an interesting character. She almost reminds me a little bit of Margaret Rutherford of something she’s that she’s a really neat character, but Kate and I are about to do that. And so Audrey was really one of the champions of Lee Miller. She was one of the people who enabled us to get a press pass through the American Corps of the English Press Corps, because you weren’t, as a woman, allowed to take photos at the time. You know, it’s it’s one of the reasons that Lee Miller had took some of the first pictures inside of Dachau and the camps when they found out the horror that had been. Committed.


Louis Virtel For people who don’t know Margaret Rutherford is who played Miss Marple in the Agatha Christie Mysteries of York. She’s an Oscar winner, too. But that’s a name that I feel like still has a lot of prominence in Britain. Do you have favorite old actors, old British actors that you like watching again and again?


Andrea Riseborough Oh, God. I mean, I have favorites. You know, favorites. Mature actors, shall we say, from all over the world. You know, really from all over the world. From Croatia and the Middle East. I mean, there are so many fantastic actors. The really unusual thing about actors is they retain this childlike quality because there’s such a and you probably identify with this in a sense, because I imagine a writer or a journalist has this listen, this sense of freedom or lack of stability being freelance. You know, I think if anyone’s been freelance, they kind of understand what this means. But they retain a childlike quality even into their into their eighties and nineties when they’re still working toward the end of their career because they’re still excited and seeking the next venture. And that’s such a. It’s actually something that takes a lot of humility to know that you’ve, you know, you work with actors at RC You’ve, you’ve been in Hamlet nine times, you know, and they’re now eighty-something and you know, they’re in Hamlet again and, and quite, quite jovial jovially, you know, quite happily embracing the experience. And that takes a lot of humility to to have that huge amount of experience. But to. But to come every day to it afresh.


Louis Virtel So it sounds like you remain a movie stalwart as a fan too. Like you prefer the film experience to watching a TV experience.


Andrea Riseborough I find it difficult to enjoy what they now call episodic content, which all sounds very soulless. Yes, I find it very difficult. That said, I’ve just produced something with Fremantle, which I hope in its nature, in its unusual nature and in its. Because because it’s being directed by some very brilliant auteur filmmakers, I hope. Will I. I suppose what I’m trying to say is I’m trying as a producer and an actor underwriter, to find my way through this episodic shift that we’re having from cinema to episodic work. And I think there’s a there’s vast potential. I’m not sure anybody is quite. Touching it, I think. What? The things that Kate is doing are doing,  are really wonderful. It takes a lot of take somebody very, very strong at the helm to, when you do something episodic to push a character through that vast expanse of eight, 6 to 8 episodes or 20 episodes in some cases, which is just mind boggling. But actually speaking to older actors and one who’s not with us anymore, but somebody like Peter Falk, who had an incredible film career that people don’t seem to really I mean, cinephiles, those of us who love Cassavetes, of course, understand, see the entirety of his career. But people like Peter Falk, who who ended up on television with the most incredible guest stars known to man, Columbo. You know, I mean, that’s something to respect. It’s not that. It’s something to. You know, it’s it’s something to admire because it requires both the wisdom and that eagerness to be curious about your job. Still.


Louis Virtel It’s interesting you bring up Cassavetes because I feel like that name must loom large in the minds of serious actors, because it feels to me like when Gena Rowlands came around, there was just a seismic turn like there the potential for what you could do on screen. Totally changed. Is that somebody whose work you’ve seen a lot of?


Andrea Riseborough I think there were many shifts like that in cinema. Of course, I’m a huge fan of Gena Rowlands. I don’t think there were very you know, there are very few performers who occupy the sort of space that she does in terms of respect and how commanding she was as a as a screen presence. But I also think, there have been so many shifts. Back to Vivien Leigh appointed shift is with Vivien Leigh and Marlon Brando. That’s a very clear shift of one style of acting and another meeting in Glorious Union and what was a very successful piece of cinema. A Streetcar Named Desire, obviously, I’ll say I mean, I know that you know what I’m talking about, but, you know, that’s one of many, many shifts. And I think there are many actors like us. And there are many actors who. It may not be perhaps recorded. But they have also put pennies in the coffer. That’s. Developments of naturalism on screen. And naturalism is is is is extraordinary and fantastic and so much so, so much more of a reflection of real life, I think, than the cinema language that we’ve come to expect or feel comfortable around. But also, I also love doing things that I you know. That are completely surreal. I just made a film called Please Baby Please with a with a brilliant writer director called Amanda Cramer. And it’s it’s lyrical, you know it could have almost been written pentameter it’s not but it’s it’s it’s it’s lyrical. It’s it’s camp. It’s it’s it’s wild, it’s genderless. It’s a really interesting LGBTQ plus type West Side Story without the songs. So it’s also really exciting to do work for that.


Louis Virtel I would almost expect you to do surreal stuff more often because I would just expect you to be bored with like literal drama, just so capable that you would have to go into the world of the unnatural, unreal.


Andrea Riseborough You know, I think probably I think it depends on the actor, but if you if you if you spend your time mentally in somewhat in a state, that’s quite surreal and kind of doesn’t matter what gets put in front of you or how conventional it is, that will just sort of pop out.


Louis Virtel That’s a psychological insight I’m thrilled to have. Wow. What’s what’s going on in your head that the surreal that  just speaks to you.


Andrea Riseborough No idea. I read a lot. I mean, I don’t know. I don’t know. I’m a huge music fan and. Yes. You know. But my psychology is deeply boring. But less Leslie’s. Is complicated, complicated and and so painful for those around her who love her.


Louis Virtel This movie is great. Your performance is staggering. I’m thrilled to see another great performance added to your stack of loved you in Death of Stalin. By the way, you were simply fabulous, as Wallis Simpson. I hope people talk to you about that performance still.


Andrea Riseborough So thank you. Actually, that was something that David Russell, who I’ve just made a film with. We had the premiere last night. That’s something that he particularly liked. I think that’s what’s but one of the things earlier on that I did that he particularly liked that was probably why I was able to work with him eventually again.


Louis Virtel Well, thank you for being here. And go see To Leslie, everybody, it’s a wonderful film.


Andrea Riseborough Oh, thank you so much for your insightful questions. That was lovely.


Louis Virtel And To Leslie is in theater’s October 7th.


Ira Madison III <A.D.>.


Ira Madison III Nicki Minaj is back in the news and this time it’s her fans were making waves as they harassed and threatened one of Nicki’s critics, journalist Kimberly Foster. There’s a lot of other things going on, too. Nikki is also suing a woman, a blogger who called her a Coke head.


Sam Sanders But Nicki said, I’ve never, ever done Coke. And I was like never, ever? Never, ever, your whole life Nicki? I don’t.


Louis Virtel Statistically, it just doesn’t make sense.


Sam Sanders Thank you.


Ira Madison III Yeah. The funny thing about the blogger who called her a coke head is that the blogger first said, and by the way, the blogger’s name is Nosey Heaux, spelled H-E-A-U-X. You know. We see you already know that she gets in the people’s business, you know.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III She’s a nosy ho. And she’s probably going to talk about your nose where people do coke, you know. So there’s so many layers here. But she when she first was saying it, she was like allegedly Nicki does cocaine, she’s a coke head. And then she’s like, I’m not even going to say allegedly she does it. I was like, Well, sis, come on. Yeah, I did start out.


Sam Sanders She wanted the lawsuit. She wanted a lawsuit.


Ira Madison III Did Starr Jones on The View, teach you nothing? Did Wendy Williams, teach you nothing? You’ve got to keep saying allegedly. What do you say? Once you say you don’t mean allegedly. You. You deserve the lawsuit.


Sam Sanders The loss. I say allegedly when I’m talking to my dog. I say allegedly to everybody. Allegedly everything. Cover your ass. What’s weird to me, though, is apparently Nikki sued this woman up for only $75,000. That’s all.


Louis Virtel What? Is that even a lawsuit? That’s like, game show winnings.


Ira Madison III I remember blogging. I remember blogging. And $75,000 was a lot of money at the time. You know?


Louis Virtel I’m just saying that’s like that’s like the level that Judge Judy handles. It’s just not that significant.


Ira Madison III That’s I know that’s but that’s like three times as much as I used to make at BuzzFeed.


Louis Virtel Right. Oh, wow, they were paying you. They’re paying you in coupons? What was going on there?.


Ira Madison III They paid me in Chiquita bananas. Okay.


Sam Sanders Uh- Oh.


Ira Madison III Speaking of alleged, by the way, though, I want to point out that someone called me out on Instagram for last week’s episode saying, I love how you refer to Anne Boleyn’s alleged scandals.


Louis Virtel We don’t want her after us. If Anne of A Thousand Days have taught me anything, you don’t want her on your trail. The allegedly thing is interesting. At Kimmel routinely Don Trump Junior comes up and you want to say the same thing about him. Then you realize, Oh, no, it’s different than making a joke in another way. Like using that. Those kinds of words, like cokehead, like, is treacherous.


Sam Sanders Yeah, I found it really interesting when I did try to read up on this and it’s so many layers to it. The lawyer’s comments and filings are just as aggressive and petty and antagonistic as like the barbs on Twitter. Her lawyer’s crazy, too. Like the lawyer is like picking a fight in these legal documents. I don’t understand what’s gotten over her and her team. She’s just mad at the world. And I’m like, Nikki, why are you mad? Queen Radio is paying you a lot of money. You got a ton of hits. I’m sure you’re still rich. What’s up? Like what?


Ira Madison III Is Queen Radio paying her a lot of money because Azealia Banks has famously said podcast of the brokest form of media.


Sam Sanders I just don’t get why she’s so angry. I don’t get it.


Ira Madison III And I think this goes to, so the original thing is Kimberly Foster is being is suing Barbies for doxing her. She, you know, tweeted a defense of Lil Kim’s influence on Nikki. And she also tweeted, Nikki is so clearly a horrible person. Negativity sticks to her like glue. I don’t know if we’ve ever seen this before. And, you know, I say this as a person who has been a huge Nicki Minaj fan. You know, I’ve had to fall off in recent years just because, like the Internet presence is so toxic. And it’s not just her. It’s truly the fan base. And it’s they it’s a feeding on one another. And I don’t think I’ve seen this before either.


Sam Sanders Well, I haven’t seen is how she kind of feeds it. She’ll like some of these really mean trolls tweet when they’re going after folks that she hates and then she’ll kind of tell them she follows them and then suddenly tell them, all right, go ahead, go off. Go get them. Like, she kind of like calls the dogs in. It’s very dangerous, you know, to see Kimberly Foster share some of those screengrabs of the messages she was getting. Folks were saying, I don’t care if you live in a secured apartment, we’re going to come find you and like kill you. Literally, they were saying yes, all because she said once, I don’t like Nikki. I don’t understand it. I don’t get it. And like behind all of this, there’s also the whole thing that, like, apparently Nikki is an anti-vaxxer. On top of all this mess, it’s crazy.


Louis Virtel Oh, yes. Well, she does have some strange theories about that regarding friends of friends, of friends or whatever that was. That, by the way, I feel like, went by the wayside in a way that I did not expect. I thought we would still be making jokes about that like years ago.


Sam Sanders I’m still making jokes about that.


Louis Virtel Okay, good, thank you for keeping it up. No, but something that’s interesting to me is I get fed up when people say things like, oh, this person has so much money or they’re so successful, why are they even spending time on Twitter? It’s like, Well, you want to know what people are up to. Like you’re still sociable human being like. I feel like you can’t blame people for wanting to be involved in a conversation that said Nicki Minaj in particular. I just feel like life would be better if the Internet never happened to her. Every story. She’s never done one rad thing on the internet.


Sam Sanders Yeah, well, and it’s like once you reach a certain level of fame, you’re really not supposed to tweet. Like, that’s kind of a secret rule. You’re that big now, don’t tweet. Beyoncé ain’t tweeting. Taylor Swift ain’t tweeting. And the fact that, like, Nicki Minaj isn’t just on Twitter every day, but also has Queen Radio where she just pops off about, whatever, 4 hours a day. That is a recipe for disaster for someone as famous as she is. When you’re that big, speak less, not more.


Ira Madison III Yeah. And it’s the also the following the fans, too, because as you know, it’s like you have to feed it to the like, always say something positive about her. Because she’s following you. She could be monitoring what you’re saying. And it’s I just don’t understand the impetus that it’s not just barbs too, from a lot of stans. Like the impetus to you’re attacking someone in the name of this person. There’s just a lot of cruelty and nastiness that comes with a lot of Internet there is at this point. And it’s it’s troubling because it’s, you know, the stuff that was written to Kimberly is vile. And scary but also like. You’re a journalist. Should have to go through this shit. You know, like we’re joking, too, about, like, being doxxed or whatever by even just discussing this, especially knowing it’s going to end up on the Keep It snapchat.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III And people will be looking. But you know, it’s also like you have to be like, I’m afraid of being doxxed. You should have to say, I’m not scared of these people because you like you shouldn’t have to worry about being killed by doing your job and reporting on a pop star. You know, it’s.


Sam Sanders Yes.


Ira Madison III It’s it’s truly ridiculous. But also not just the scariness on the Kimberly part. Why are the other these people who are online tweeting about people afraid that like one time in Nicki’s name, you’re going to say something about somebody and try and pull up and do them and like they might get killed or someone might go after them. I’m like, it’s a certain point you’re not going to keep talking about me on the Internet crazy.


Sam Sanders Exactly.


Ira Madison III You could be found, too.


Sam Sanders Yeah. What I don’t like in general with just like this very performative type of toxic fandom and stand that has been ascendant the last several years, is that like it convinces people to care the most about the people who need the least care. Right. People that you’re toxic standing. They’re so rich and powerful and wealthy, they’re set for life. They don’t need you to defend them. Nicki Minaj needs no one to defend her. Right. And yet you convince yourself that if you’re not out there tweeting on her behalf, she suffers. It’s so wild to me. Like, put that energy towards anything else. Whoever you’re toxic, fanning and standing, they actually don’t need it. They’re fine.


Louis Virtel Well, also, just the primary problem with Twitter in general is we have accidentally gotten a lot of information from there like that we use in our daily lives. And sometimes it’s from, you know, verified news sources. But in general, I think people just forget to ask, who am I actually listening to right now? Who is this person? Where are they? Where are they coming from? Where is their information from? And I feel like Stans are like the heart of the worst of the matter. Yeah. You know.


Sam Sanders Do we like the new song?


Louis Virtel No, not really.


Sam Sanders Because I secretly.


Ira Madison III  Super Freaky Girl? I hated it


Louis Virtel It’s growing on me a little bit. It’s growing on me a little bit, but.


Ira Madison III I hated it until I heard it in the club. And now I like it. And now I can’t stop playing it. So it is.


Sam Sanders Yeah.


Ira Madison III It’s good it did it job, you know it.


Sam Sanders Did. And I’m not going to say it’s bad because I don’t want the fans after me.


Ira Madison III Is it a classic? Our children will be singing this song again, graduations, weddings and funerals? Probably not.


Louis Virtel That fucking meme. Imagine singing at a graduation. It’s so funny.


Ira Madison III We used to. We used to do that though.


Sam Sanders Oh yeah. We would pick our senior year song. We picked our song senior Year of High School and it was Boyz Two Men End of the Road. And I was like, It’s 2002. Why are we doing this?


Ira Madison III Middle school. Middle school we sang I Believe I Can Fly.


Sam Sanders That didn’t age well.


Louis Virtel No, my middle school graduation song was, of course, that vitamin C song. It wasn’t yours, Ira.


Ira Madison III Yeah, I know. But like, like the actually singing well middle school. But I think grade school actually I like de-aging myself or something. It’s like fourth or fifth grade. But we definitely were singing, schools, children, were singing I Believe I Can Fly at graduations, weddings, and funerals. Okay. Um, that is the mark of a good song.


Sam Sanders It’s true to say, you know.


Louis Virtel The horrible stanning on Twitter is always I don’t want to say funny because that gives these people a power that they don’t deserve. But like when someone is violently mean on behalf of Lady Gaga, the person who innovated the term kindness punk, like what planet are you on? Like, you know, Nicki Minaj, at least a part of her style is to be cutting in lyrics, you know what I mean? Like I can intuitively connected two a little bit, not with anybody else.


Sam Sanders Yeah. I also go outside. I can get some of this energy during lockdown and pandemic. We’re approaching full, free now. Go touch grass. Go walk a dog. Go do something.


Ira Madison III Take the shackles off your feet. And dance okay.


Louis Virtel You know, an old an old phrase that should be brought back, Go fly a kite.


Sam Sanders There you go.


Louis Virtel Yeah, yeah, sure.


Ira Madison III Come on Benjamin Franklin.


Louis Virtel Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. Charlie Brown, etc.. Yeah.


Ira Madison III I also this is a brief aside and this is it. This isn’t to say that this is toxic culture. But.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III I want to talk about what the celebrities, people tweeting in general and we brought up like Rina Zawiyah was album before, before it was coming out and now it is officially out and I don’t love it. It’s not hitting like the first album here but. Her Twitter presence lately has been.


Sam Sanders What is she doing? What’s she doing?


Ira Madison III I’m going to read how she like tweets now. And it’s feeding into like the way stans tweet. And I just feel like it doesn’t make me feel great about the music. But I want to get your thoughts.


Ira Madison III On Hold. Hold the girl track 8, Imagining. Are you getting satisfied yet? I don’t know what genre this is in parentheses. Mother music. We have already choreographed this and it goes off live. But while I’m not quite fit enough yet and so might need a puff of mother mist.


Sam Sanders What is that?


Ira Madison III There’s a certain point where stans are like doing these insane jokey tweets like everything is sleigh and everything. It’s like mother, this mother. And now to see like an actual, like, pop star who was so innovative and original and fresh and like, sounded so smart on this show too, talking about her music and art. ZTweeting like a gay with 23 k followers on Twitter is troubling.


Sam Sanders Here’s the thing. Don’t don’t talk like that unless you can duck walk, unless you can really serve. If you came back it up. No, I just feel like, yeah.


Ira Madison III It’s like everything is slay now. And it’s


Sam Sanders Everything is slay.


Ira Madison III And it’s funny because of this. Because of the conversation of like. Are we okay with our pop stars being corny? Because people used to accuse Lizzo of this, and I think people just thought Lizzo was corny because she was a fat, black woman.


Sam Sanders That’s just actually how she is.


Ira Madison III You’re just as she is. But she was also just a fat, black woman who was like, you know, talking about self-love and loving herself. And I felt like a lot of white people picked up that positivity and made it corny themselves. Like, you know, white people singing Good As Hell is corny. But the act of Lizzo doing it isn’t corny. What was  actually corny was being at Coachella and with like Don’t Say Gay was happening. Having Rinna have the audience chant with her. When I say Say you say gay. I’m like, No, we’re not doing that.


Louis Virtel Christina Aguilera said that at Pride too.


Ira Madison III So yeah. Christina Aguilera did that, too. And it’s like. Wow.


Sam Sanders Also just. Just. Just. Just, like, leave us wanting more. Some of these girls, it’s just, like, leave me wanting more. Don’t leave me wanting less of you. I don’t know. I just feel like with Nikki. With Rina, like you talking about now, like a lot of this would be helped if they just, like, put the phone down to stop talking for a bit and let the work do the work. I don’t know. Call me crazy.


Louis Virtel Well, I think part of the problem is you’re right. Like, Ira, what she’s doing is internalizing vernacular that’s being thrown at her on Twitter all the time and speaking in that and which just feels contrived. It just feels like they’ve you’re molding the conversation to a select group of people as opposed to just talking the way you would normally talk.


Ira Madison III That’s how I felt with Carly Rae Jepsen. Not in her language, but she was long a person who was championed by gay fans as being, you know, like sort of like she felt like ours, as an undergrad. And we’re like, why don’t straight people know her beyond Call Me Baby, you know? And then she had that awful song, Beach House come out and the video was like gay tiktokers doing dances on the beach. And I’m like, where did you even get this? You know.


Louis Virtel Stay Canadian and pure, please. Yes.


Ira Madison III Thankfully the new song is very good. It’s I think that.


Louis Virtel I love the new song, Talking to Yourself, great song.


Ira Madison III That song, that’s her. It felt like not like a one off, though, like a this is what the gays are doing. This is where the culture is like where you’re trying to chase the culture. It always seems a bit you’re not innovative any more, you know, but sorry.


Sam Sanders The music feels ephemeral because I feel like with Lizzo’s latest album, she’s trying to be with every song viral on TikTok, viral here she wants to be like, This is the song for the bachelorette party. This is a song for the girls birthday night. This is a song for Tik Tok and Twitter. And it’s like, it’s not going to last because it feels so ephemeral.


Ira Madison III I like the album, but it does make me want to, you know, hit a SoulCycle class.


Louis Virtel Yeah. Yeah. This was. Like, It’s About Damn Time. I do, I like Denial. I think that was catchy.


Sam Sanders That was roomy. But I think in general, her vibe right now is very Girlboss Kidz BOP.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm.


Sam Sanders And some of it works for me, but some of it is just like I don’t think it’s.


Ira Madison III One of the best songs on her album is Naked is like a sexy song about.


Sam Sanders I want more of that.


Ira Madison III Yeah that that sex is it feels Janelle Monet. It feels you know sort of autobiographical too. You know it’s about her body like I want music like that I thought that was sexy I thought it was smart. It was brilliant. I think it’s the best song she’s ever written.


Sam Sanders Yeah.


Ira Madison III So you’re saying something, Louis. Anyway, so.


Louis Virtel No, I just in general, though, it does feel to me like. The meme world. And you know what you were talking about, like words that pick up like on gay Twitter, for example, and how we like exchange them a hundred thousand times has really given people permission to be cliche, in a way that I think was not in vogue even like ten years ago. And and it’s like, guys, you have to understand, being cliche is boring. Like, truly, no one wants to hear it, even though it feels correct coming out of your mouth because other people are using the same words. Like, just be honest, like B, actually articulate.


Sam Sanders In who you are.


Louis Virtel Yes, right. I’m like, that is what I want to hear. That’s what people want to hear.


Ira Madison III So be yourselves.


Louis Virtel That’s the message of Keep It, as you know.


Ira Madison III And go fly a kite.


Sam Sanders Be yourself. And let’s say that that.


Louis Virtel The cliche that fits the mold. Yes.


Ira Madison III All right. When, we’re back. Our favorite segment of the episode, as usual. Let’s Keep It. And we’re back with our favorite segment of the episode. Sam, you’ve listened to us for years but what’s what’s been boiling in your soul like, what’s your Keep It?


Sam Sanders Yeah, I feel bad because, like, my Keep It this week is not a fiery one. It’s more of a question than an exclamation point. And the question is, Mark Wahlberg, what are you doing? This week it felt like that man put out a new Netflix movie every day. Like there’s a lot of Netflix movies from him. I also keep getting ads on Twitter for his Catholic prayer app where you can like pray with Mark Wahlberg. Y’all seen this?


Ira Madison III I have seen that.


Louis Virtel More like pray you can get away from Mark Wahlberg at a bar.


Sam Sanders Thank you. But then here’s what’s crazy. After that, I was like, what’s up with this dude? Why is he working so hard? Does he owe somebody money? I was like, What is his career like right now? He also owns a series of car dealerships, a big used Chevy car dealership in Columbus, Ohio. That’s on top of having the Wahlburgers burger chain. My Keep It is Mark Wahlberg’s career. Why are you doing all of these things? It’s weird. I don’t like it. Something’s off. Do you have gambling debt? What is it? Keep it. Stop with the movies. Stop with the restaurant. Stop with the business ventures. I will not pray with you like I’ve had enough of this man, even though I don’t even watch what he does anymore. What is it about him? He’s. What is it?


Ira Madison III Well, he’s. He’s white and Boston, I feel like they have a hustle mentality.


Sam Sanders When they’re not hate criming people of color.


Ira Madison III Oh, shoot. You will not. You will stay on his neck about that.


Sam Sanders I mean, it happened. Did it happen? It did.


Ira Madison III You can’t just do a little hate crime in your youth.


Sam Sanders No, not really. Not as a tree.


Louis Virtel Every once in a while, you do just have, like, dark suspicions about, like, a celebrity’s career. Again, I think I brought this up sometime last year, but for a little while, John Malkovich was taking, like, the eighth lead in movies that were not worth his time. You know, John Malkovich was the definitive theater actors of the eighties and nineties. Why are you in Byrd Back Box? Why are you in this movie, Ava with Jessica Chastain. And it makes me think something is not right or there’s blackmail involved.


Sam Sanders Yeah. I’ve heard that. Nicolas Cage.


Ira Madison III Well, well, actually.


Sam Sanders For a while, when he was on all those movies, he was actually just in debt.


Ira Madison III While The Malkovich one. I know, Louis.


Louis Virtel He was in debt. He lost all his money.


Ira Madison III No. From Madoff.


Sam Sanders How’d he lose his money?


Louis Virtel He’s a Madoff person right? Yeah


Sam Sanders Oh.


Ira Madison III John Malkovich was John Malkovich was a Madoff person. And so that’s why he was.


Sam Sanders Poor guy.


Ira Madison III Working so much. Yeah.


Sam Sanders Okay. I to say, like.


Louis Virtel You would think you would have worked more at the time when he lost all that money and not, you know, ten years after.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Well, some of those movies that he did, you know, we’re probably filmed ten years prior, and finally got released.


Louis Virtel That’s right.


Ira Madison III Yeah. I used to do that for a while, though, like Google, a celebrity’s name and Bernie Madoff to find out. Is this why they’re making this record?


Louis Virtel Right. And sometimes it works out. Then you get Kyra Sedgwick and The Closer, you know.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Sam Sanders You’ll watch these movies that Mark Wahlberg is in on Netflix?


Ira Madison III Absolutely not.


Sam Sanders And one of them ultimately, he plays Kevin Hart best friend, and they have a birthday party together. And then the other one, he’s a he’s like a Catholic priest.


Ira Madison III Yeah, um.


Sam Sanders I just, I don’t understand.


Ira Madison III Kevin. Kevin Hart, Mark Wahlberg movie. As much as that sounds like a great double feature. Oh, probably not. And You know, the only the only actors I want to see pretending to be priests in a comedy are Ed Norton and Ben Stiller. Okay.


Louis Virtel I like that.


Ira Madison III I like that.


Sam Sanders They actually put up a great movie.


Ira Madison III Uh, Louis, what’s your. Keep It?


Louis Virtel Okay, well, I’m doing something very controversial. I’m innovating something. I know. Ira and I, we used to have a segment called Keep It Up, where we would encourage someone to keep doing something, but Keep It Up felt a little cheesy, so I am now innovating something else inspired by the song, That’s What Friends Are For by, by Gladys and Friends. I’m calling the segment Keep Shining and.


Sam Sanders Aw, I like that.


Louis Virtel And Keep Shining goes to Cardi B, who I talk about somebody who’s done Twitter well over the years, somebody I’m not even going to say the person’s name because I don’t know who this is. It’s just a person tweeted four pictures and said celebrities that came out as bisexual but never dated someone of the same gender. Well, Cardi saw that and she responded, I ate bitches out before you was born. Sorry I don’t have razer phone pics to prove it to you.


Sam Sanders A queen. Queen.


Louis Virtel Clearly.


Sam Sanders A queen.


Louis Virtel Keep Shining.


Sam Sanders Yes, I live for any and all razer phone references because the kids don’t know. The kids don’t know what that era felt like.


Ira Madison III So the Razor flip was like the.


Sam Sanders Sound of the close of the phone.


Louis Virtel Oh. So satisfying. Yeah. You have a phone and it was like a Chinese finger trap. It would be like like flip, flip,  flip. You know?


Ira Madison III Also shout out to her delivering this week. Also some very good looking courtroom photos. It’s been a while since like Naomi Campbell, it’s not that way. You’ve had, like, a celebrity, like walking into court. Giving a fashion show. So.


Sam Sanders We love her. Yeah.


Louis Virtel By the way, as far as I’m concerned, like a shout out to, like, movies of yore where, like, the femme fatale would walk into court and have simply just a giant brooch, like you had a testifying brooch that you wore.


Sam Sanders I also, you know. It’s funny to think about our chat about Nicki. Cardi tweets as much as Nicki does, but Cardi’s not getting in that kind of trouble. She’s done something where, like her Twitter persona is lovable.


Ira Madison III Well, she’s funny. So.


Sam Sanders That is an interesting thing, though, because Nikki’s very funny.


Ira Madison III She’s funny, but not cool.


Louis Virtel Cardi is determined to keep the funny light.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Sam Sanders Exactly.


Ira Madison III Cardi punches up. She doesn’t punch down usually, you know.


Louis Virtel Yes, right.


Sam Sanders And Nicki just punches everybody.


Ira Madison III Yes. She’s a rock ’em, sock ’em robot. My Keep It this week goes to the. So first of all Adam Levine is a ho, as we’ve all found out.


Sam Sanders But a very pretty ho. A very, very pretty ho.


Ira Madison III He is a pretty ho. He has a pretty good facial.


Sam Sanders Yes. Yes, he did.


Ira Madison III He cheated on his Victoria’s Secret model-wife, whose name I unfortunately never know. But


Sam Sanders Oh.


Ira Madison III Shout out to her. But he cheated on her with some girl. And it came out. And that we also found out that he wanted to name his child, that his third child he is having with its Victoria’s Secret model wife after Summer, the woman that he cheated with. Um. Wild behavior. Wild behavior that men that celebrities are just like full on having DMs, still with women on Instagram with like the verified sticker that said that but like people have.


Sam Sanders Haven’t we learned


Ira Madison III Can screenshot these.


Sam Sanders The Instagram DMS will get you, we know this by now.


Ira Madison III They always get you now. Twitter circles are getting people now too. People are screenshotting the Twitter circles that’s showing people because they want.


Louis Virtel Yes, right.


Ira Madison III But my Keep It once again goes to how we could have should have kept this story on Adam being a ho, but once again, the Internet needed to bring up their vitriol toward Maroon five.


Louis Virtel And you are a stan. This is legitimate.


Ira Madison III I do not get why people are so aggressively angry at Maroon 5 songs. Okay, they are.


Sam Sanders I’ll tell you why. I’ll tell you why.


Ira Madison III Cars. Okay.


Sam Sanders No shut your mouth


Ira Madison III Everyone like the cars back then.


Sam Sanders That is not even. No, sir. Don’t you do that.


Ira Madison III I’m sorry. That’s true. Because there are many Maroon 5 songs better than Just What I Needed.


Sam Sanders Well. Here’s. Here’s. Here’s everyone’s problem with Maroon 5. You go back to that first album, Songs About Jane.


Ira Madison III SongsAbout Jane, Yeah.


Sam Sanders Really, really good. It was a bait and switch.


Ira Madison III They sold out.


Sam Sanders You were used to a certain kind of sound, and then it totally went to something like Urgent Care, Waiting Room Rock. And sometimes it’s really good, but it’s not what Songs About Jane promised me, and.


Ira Madison III That’s fair.


Sam Sanders That’s why I’m mad about.


Louis Virtel Can I say something? That is actually how I feel about Get Ready Black Eyed Peas.


Ira Madison III I was going to say Black Eyed Peas.


Louis Virtel They were good at first. They had that album with like Macy Gray on it with.


Sam Sanders It was like Neo Soul II for a little bit.


Louis Virtel Yeah. And you kind of thought that’s what you were going to get. And then it turned into like, well, it’s this, you know, consortium of T.J. Maxx, Target.


Sam Sanders It was stadium pop.


Louis Virtel And urgent care. And they all got together and made music that sounds like somebody threw a calculator down the stairs.


Sam Sanders Exactly. Yeah, that’s the thing. Like don’t switch it up on us.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Sam Sanders Be who you going to be from the start.


Ira Madison III I will agree that they sold out. But, you know, I feel like some of the songs do hit to me.


Sam Sanders So it’s like a.Sample of like Pachelbel’s Canon? What’s the what’s the one? Memories. Memories.


Louis Virtel But oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. With Alan in the video.


Ira Madison III Yeah, yeah. I didn’t even know Girls Like You song.


Sam Sanders Not Girls Like You.


Ira Madison III Oh, that’s the one with  Cardi.


Sam Sanders Memories don’t let go.


Ira Madison III Oh, my love.


Sam Sanders But anyway.


Ira Madison III My love Birds Eye also ignores the last two albums. But I go all the way up to Pay Phone. Pay Phone, add One More Night.


Louis Virtel Okay, One More Night’s good.


Ira Madison III Overexposed. Good album.


Ira Madison III Not the Maroon 5 we were promised. But, you know, it’s like you meet a friend, and they’re cool, you know, whatever. And then, like, a few years later, you see them, like, they’re different. They got through a divorce, or maybe they make a lot more money. They’re like, they’re still the same person, but they’ve got a different sort of like, personality. You know, it’s, um. It’s like a recast of a soap opera. Okay. Like, oh, so some of the listeners will get this, but it’s like Patrick Muldoon on Days of Our Lives into Austin Peck. They’re both Austin Reid, but they’re they’re two different people.


Sam Sanders Okay. I will say, on that note, there is an obscure, not widely known Kanye West remix of This Love. It’s really good. Go find it, listeners. You’ll like it.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm.


Louis Virtel I also unfortunately do to this day, love Moves Like Jagger, which, I mean, as for if ever there was a back to school, kids commercial music, it’s that. I love it.


Sam Sanders WHy would anyone want to move like Jagger? He could not dance.


Louis Virtel Oh, don’t start with that. C’Mon


Sam Sanders He was seizing. He was seizing.


Louis Virtel Okay, well, that’s what white people can do. Accept it.


Ira Madison III Yeah, that’s what. And sidenote, white people are moving like Jagger at every Tik Tok video that they’ve released.


Louis Virtel No kidding.


Ira Madison III With with Renaissance. And I’m like, I need white people to, like, put down the album and stop dancing.


Sam Sanders I agree.


Ira Madison III Or if you want  to dance? Dance like no one is watching and make sure no one is watching because people keep putting out viral videos. Think people keep putting on my choreography videos and I’m like, some of these are hit in the way you’re thinking. They’re hitting. You’re not eating. You look starved. Anyway, that’s all the Keep It we have this week. Shout out to Andrea Riseborough. Makes you continue to rise.


Louis Virtel In all of the boroughs. Yes


Ira Madison III Mostly the Bronx. Okay, that’s great food. Underrated food. Okay,  South Bronx.


Louis Virtel We love the Bronx. Shout out to Co-op City. Yes.


Ira Madison III Shout out to Sam Sanders for taking time out of his.


Louis Virtel Oh, what a pleasure.


Ira Madison III Busy multiple podcast scheduled to be here with us.


Sam Sanders So good to be here with y’all. Listen, I’m going to say again, you can find me on Vibe Check on Wednesdays and Into It from Vulture on Thursdays. And also while I’m here, my entire team maybe said make sure to ask them to come on Into It at some point soon. This is a formal invite you both are in.


Louis Virtel Oh, all right.


Ira Madison III Oh, absolutely.


Louis Virtel Unfortunately, I’m going to bring it.


Sam Sanders So. Yeah. Yes. We forward to it. We look forward to it.


Ira Madison III I thought I was blacklisted from Vulture, but, you know, I will come back.


Sam Sanders Not on my watch. Not on my watch.


Louis Virtel Where is Iyanla?


Sam Sanders Don’t ask that question. You don’t want to know.


Louis Virtel That should be the beginning of a horror movie.


Sam Sanders Yeah.


Ira Madison III Don’t forget to check out full episodes of Keep It on the Uncultured YouTube channel. And while you’re at it, rate and reviews on your podcast platform of choice. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. Google Play. Stitcher. Remember. Keep It. Five star reviews are the only way we can continue to do our work, like getting people like Adnan Syed out of prison. Okay. You got to get got to do it.


Sam Sanders Yeah.


Ira Madison III All right. We’ll see you next week. Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our senior producer is Kendra James. Our producer is Chris Lord. Our executive producers are Ira Madison III.


Louis Virtel And Louis Virtel.


Ira Madison III Our editor is Charlotte Landes and Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer.


Louis Virtel Thank you to our digital team, Matt DeGroot and Nar Melkonian. And Delon Villeneuve for our production support every week.