"The One About Matthew Perry" w. Allison Williams | Crooked Media
Jon, Jon & Tommy's first ever book is here - Order Democracy or Else NOW! Jon, Jon & Tommy's first ever book is here - Order Democracy or Else NOW!
November 01, 2023
Keep It
"The One About Matthew Perry" w. Allison Williams

In This Episode

Ira and Louis remember Matthew Perry’s roles and legacy, review Sofia Coppola’s biopic Priscilla, discuss tipping on Door Dash, political fundraiser texts, and have a post-mortem on Halloween. Allison Williams joins to discuss her new podcast Erased: The Murder of Elma Sands.






Ira Madison III And we are back with an all new episode of Keep It. I’m Ira Madison, the third.


Louis Virtel I’m Louis Virtel. Happy November. A month I’m shockingly okay with given my jeremiads about fall.


Ira Madison III What do you love about November?


Louis Virtel I love Thanksgiving break. I love starting off a break with like a big celebration, you know, you got the dinner, etc. and then you’ve got this serene next few days to hang out and do nothing. This year I’m going to Puerto Vallarta, but I usually just like hanging out and watching ten prestige movies that are out. If we got rid of the word fall and just, you know, replaced it with the word prestige, I’d be pretty thrilled with the season.


Ira Madison III The prestige. I would say that I enjoy November two. I enjoy November as a person who, you know, I like making plans with friends. I like, you know, like scheduling things, etc..


Louis Virtel Which is of course, an exclusive activity tend November. That’s correct.


Ira Madison III I’ll just say, once November hits? It’s really a month where it’s Thanksgiving’s coming that kills about a week and a half, two weeks of plans.


Louis Virtel Right, right, right, right. Everything falls around that. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Right. It’s been a lot of time with making plans of people. It’s been. Well, let’s circle back after Halloween, because, first of all, gay Halloween is three weeks.


Louis Virtel I can’t believe Halloween still hasn’t happened yet as of this recording. I’ve celebrated it 16 times.


Ira Madison III It’s today. Today is Halloween, but now it’s. Oh, well, do you want to make plans? There’s about two weeks to make plans now.


Louis Virtel Right. There’s like three days. You can see friends.


Ira Madison III Three days, and then Thanksgiving hits, and then you come back for Christmas. And New York is a bit different than L.A., at least, because in L.A., the entire city basically shuts down.


Louis Virtel It’s shocking. We just decide, like, when nobody needs to work.


Ira Madison III Yeah, we’re not buying anything. We’re not making any TV shows. No movies are shooting. It’s everything. It’s done. But here, people will still be working. No.


Louis Virtel So New York has the nerve to have people with lots of different occupations. We we haven’t branched out past, you know, set decorator here. That’s most of everybody. I mean, I just want to say also that I’m really discombobulated this episode because I have to change my entire Keep It from the Keep It segment because it was going to be I Keep It to you based on a tweet you wrote and I misread it, which was I thought you were saying I thought someone said, what are your three favorite Michael Jackson songs of all time? And you picked three songs from Invincible. I was like, Girl. But the actual tweet was, What are your three favorite songs from Invincible, which was released on this date some years ago? And I was like, Who the fuck are you trying to impress with my favorite Michael Jackson’s like, Of all time, this Break of Dawn or whatever, you think Janet’s going to call you up and be like, Thank you so much for Global Break of Dawn. I love it too, just as I love all my friends.


Ira Madison III Okay. I will say, though, that in that list I have Butterflies, which could possibly make my top three Michael Jackson songs.


Louis Virtel Oh my God.


Ira Madison III I love that song.


Louis Virtel I think that ones okay.


Ira Madison III I will also say, Invincible is a great album.


Louis Virtel Well, it’s definitely better than Dangerous, which I think is all over the place and yet also sounds too much the same. And also that’s where you got way too into ballads, which is my least favorite thing he does.


Ira Madison III Yeah. And it starts out with Jam, which is great. And then the rest of the album is very loud.


Louis Virtel Yes, very. Like he got very obsessed with tons of production. Like something was like, changed about the music after Bad and stuff. Well, and stayed that way throughout the nineties. Yeah. I will say, You Rocked My World though, to borrow a word, you brought back recently a song with swag, which wasn’t always Michael Jackson’s thing.


Ira Madison III Yeah, that is that’s sort of like I really remember that song coming out and it being like, Oh, there’s new Michael Jackson music. And it was.


Louis Virtel Shocking. Yeah. And there was a debut of it too. I remember being like, Oh, you have to watch the video because Chris Tucker’s on it and Marlon Brando was at it. Marlon Brando getting paid like eight figures to turn around in a chair. He was like, he’s like he’s like, here are my conditions. I’m waiting to die. And you have to pay me $20 million to do a damn thing.


Ira Madison III Well, you know, pine cost a lot of money.


Louis Virtel Yes, exactly.


Ira Madison III You know, he was he was getting that funeral together. I would say whatever happens is a great, underrated song. There’s also. The song Invincible and Heartbreak are good songs. The opening on break. I think it’s a good, underrated album and I think that, yeah, people sort of think about Dangerous a lot just because it’s from the nineties and they think all of the stuff from the nineties is perfect.


Louis Virtel But yeah. It’s still in the heyday of them too, right?


Ira Madison III It’s a good album. Ballads are good on this album.


Louis Virtel They’re better. Yes, definitely. No, because if I had to pick my favorite non single of all time from Michael Jackson, I think it’s Baby Be Mine from Thriller. Are you a fan of that?


Ira Madison III MM That’s a good song.


Louis Virtel I’m sure I’m shocked. That’s not played way more often. I’m still getting over the fact that the first single off Thriller was The Girl Is Mine by Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson. Maybe the worst thing either of them ever put out. And by the way, you know, Paul got kooky in the eighties, so there’s a lot of options there. But that song would.


Ira Madison III Probably release that album today.


Louis Virtel Precisely. No, but that particular song is one of the two non singles on that album, which is so which speaks to the quality of Thriller. But anyway, I can’t drag you for that. So I’ll have to find a new Keep It by the end of the episode.


Ira Madison III Well. What was your Halloween costume this year? Let me drag you for something.


Louis Virtel Oh, yeah, I had. I had. I was chun-li, but. And I have two versions of it. I think I’ll still wear the jumpsuit version tonight. I think I brought this up last episode, but I also went to a warehouse party, and I literally decided I cannot be wearing this polyester situation for more than 5 seconds. I’m like a dog in one of those Olaf costumes. I have to get out of this fucking thing. So I just wore a singlet since I made more sense.


Ira Madison III And I wore I was Mad Hatter on Friday.


Louis Virtel Wow. A very Tom Petty video.


Ira Madison III Yeah, well, the party was for my friends. Jared and Charlie’s party called Vanity Square, which was based on, you know, the Thackeray novel Vanity Fair. I’m familiar. Lovely porn, Victorian era themed. Allegedly. Some people got it. Oh, they didn’t exactly get it because the invite said Marie Antoinette meets Dracula. And those are two different time periods.


Louis Virtel Marie Antoinette. That’s about the 1790s motherfucker.


Ira Madison III Yeah, but you know, he is British. And so they just say things, right?


Louis Virtel Well, well, it’s just like all of world history is like, congealed for some people. I bring this up all the time. Like I went to a Barry’s bootcamp class and the teacher goes, and all the music today is eighties and then they put on Stairway to Heaven. I said, Can we open up a textbook? What is happening to this universe?


Ira Madison III Famously, Led Zeppelin is in U.S. history. Textbook. Yeah.


Louis Virtel By the way, do not make me work out to the vocals of Robert Plant. Please don’t.


Ira Madison III That is like a side note before I get back to Halloween. That is like the worst part of the gym that I go to. Not my regular one. The one where my trainer is that the owner of the gym loves working out to eighties rock.


Louis Virtel Oh no.


Ira Madison III Hi. I am just at the gym hearing that Led Zeplin.


Louis Virtel Def Leppard. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Ira Madison III I’m hearing Def Leopard. It’s like, Where are we?


Louis Virtel I say the movie Rock of Ages and the musical Rock of Ages should be called gym teachers iPod.


Ira Madison III But I did Mad Hatter, which was lovely because like it was a lot of color in that outfit. So that was fun. And then Saturday I was a corpse groom. I basically just had like white face paint, make a blazer, nothing underneath. And I wore shorts because I was at a warehouse party. I was at The Final Unter, which is a party that’s gone on for six years in New York.


Louis Virtel So I know about that party because no one would shut the fuck up about it. That’s because on social media I was like, How do I mute this fucking thing? Yeah.


Ira Madison III It was the final one, called, you know, Unter Death, and it was, you know, funeral themed and it’s sort of like very European rave where it’s, it’s like a fucking 18 hour party. I mean, it started at around midnight and it went till 6 p.m..


Louis Virtel Oh, God bless. Okay. Yeah. This is a concern gay people have when they’re dressing up for Halloween. You know, it’s like you want the elaborate costumes and some people stick with them and will wear them in any environment, even if it’s like a full like Tony the Tiger furry type costume. But like, I will die of heat exhaustion or whatever the fucking term is in any of these environments, I sweat immediately. So I really have to give props to the people who stick with. They’re like, elaborate, you know, Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade, like, looks in the middle of an environment that is trying to kill you.


Ira Madison III Yeah, I was just in my gym shorts by the end of it. But I will say I do appreciate appreciate the people who add a bit of creativity to the standard Gaslight costume. You know, there’s like you can just wear a jockstrap and rabbit ears, but you can also do a little something different and where you at least look interesting.


Louis Virtel Yeah, like a little bit of makeup or like, yeah, like an accouterment that like, has the impression of clothes, but isn’t clothes.


Ira Madison III Anyway shows that you got it together maybe a month before and not the morning.


Louis Virtel Of. Right. Which is, as you know, how I operate on Halloween. I think that’s what my main misgiving about Halloween is if you come in unprepared, you always look it. Like, you can’t fake that. You came up with something at the last moment. You know, you can’t sweet talk your way into looking like you belong.


Ira Madison III I’m skipping Halloween tonight.


Louis Virtel I think I am, too.


Ira Madison III I’ve had enough. Yeah, I’ve had enough. I slept for two days. First of all, after oats hour. And today I am going to the theater.


Louis Virtel Oh, What are you seeing?


Ira Madison III Instead. I’m seeing Loretta Devine and Pal Joey.


Louis Virtel Oh, my. First of all, the words Loretta Devine. Second of all the words, Pal Joey. These are among the most. Things that belong in an Ira sentence. An Ira madlib.


Ira Madison III Directed by Tony Goldwyn.


Louis Virtel Our whom we are discussing this episode anyway with our very esteemed and lovely guest.


Ira Madison III Since We’re in the midst of a strike, Allison Williams is here to talk about her new podcast, Erased: The Murder of Elma Sands, which is a docu podcast about a murder trial that is part of the Hamilton Cinematic Universe.


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III If you will.


Louis Virtel It was one of the first major crimes in America and involves a couple of Hamilton characters, including Hamilton himself, who I guess was real. I was blown away to find this out. So, Lydia, Tara’s situation for me, I didn’t know I was on the cusp. Yeah.


Ira Madison III I don’t know why we. I feel like Taylor Swift every time this happens, every time a gas comes on the show and they say, I listen to the show or I’ve listened to it since the beginning, we turn into, Oh, my God, I have a podcast.


Louis Virtel No, it’s very high. I am very shocked. I’m like, I understand this is a microphone, but we don’t mean to send it out into the world, you know?


Ira Madison III It’s sent out in the space where only, only the cast of Gravity can hear it. But yeah, she listens to the show. So thank you for being a listener and thank you for being a very great guest this week.


Louis Virtel Yes, a lot of fun. Elsewhere in this episode, we are talking about Priscilla, the new Sofia Coppola movie about Priscilla Presley based on her eighties memoir, Elvis and Me, starring Cailee Spaeny. Yeah, but those are actually very different books. We’ll get into that. And Jacob Elordi, who plays Elvis Presley, we’ll get into that.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm. And then, of course, we will also discuss Matthew Perry this week. Oh. Oh. Died, surprisingly, this weekend. That was. That was a real shocking like tweet to see.


Louis Virtel Right. And also, it’s like obviously, it’s very murky about what actually happened. Like he died in the Jacuzzi, I guess. But it’s just one of those things where immediately I thought it reminded me a little bit of when Whitney Houston died. You’re like, oh, I thought you had gotten better. You know, I thought you like things had improved or whatever. But we obviously don’t know the full story or what happened, but we will discuss him and his very interesting filmography, which if you haven’t browsed it recently.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel Lots to learn.


Ira Madison III You know? Yeah, Yeah. I think I think the crux, the crux of this will be discussing Matthew Perry’s filmography, which is eccentric.


Louis Virtel Well, it’s just very we’ll get into it. It’s very of the time I’ll say.


Ira Madison III Mhm. Yeah. So we will be right back with more Keep It.




Ira Madison III Sitcom legend Matthew Perry sadly passed away last weekend. Actors and costars have come out in full force in tribute to the F.R.I.E.N.D.S. star. We, of course, wanted to take some time to commemorate remember Matthew Perry’s career and legacy. We’ll get in the Friends first, I guess, which is the first of minds when you think of Matthew Perry, obviously.


Louis Virtel Oh, definitely.


Ira Madison III It is, I want to go to one tribute, which was very LOL and very her.


Louis Virtel You’re talking about Ms. Paltrow. Yes. Oh, my God.


Ira Madison III Gwenyth Paltrow.


Louis Virtel I love when she delivers. I love what she delivers.


Ira Madison III Gwyneth Paltrow wrote, I met Matthew Perry in 1993 at the Williamstown Theater Festival in Massachusetts. We were both there for most of the summer doing plays. He was so funny and so sweet and so much fun to be with. We drove out to Swimmin creeks, had beers in the local college bar, kissed in a field of long grass. It was a magical summer. He had shot the pilot of F.R.I.E.N.D.S., but it had not yet aired. He was nervous, hoping his big break was just around the corner. It was. We stayed friends for a while until we drifted apart. But I was always happy to see him when I did. I am super sad today as so many of us are. I hope Matthew is at peace at long last. I really do. That is a beautiful tribute. It’s very heartfelt. She also buries in there the fact that she hooked up with Matthew Perry.


Louis Virtel It’s so funny. No, she’s like, by the way, let me write you a little sixpence in on the retro song about how we fucking met. Very adorable. Also, I have to say, even if F.R.I.E.N.D.S. didn’t come along, this person would have been a star. There’s something. So he was so watchable. And this is going to sound really facile given that they are costars. He, to me, was the male Jennifer Aniston in that. The more he was sputtering and neurotic and at wit’s end, the more believable and down to earth he seemed, the more he seemed like somebody. I’ve got to keep watching because they are conveying something very real about being a person in these heightened comic environments. I watched a couple of episodes of F.R.I.E.N.D.S. last night, and it’s just you can count on him like hit a punch line hard, you know, just like you miss, like that multi-cam feeling of, Oh, I’m leaning into the joke. You know, there’s not there’s nothing in the kind of single cam realm of like, I’m shying away from it. I’m doing something mumblecore. I’m acting awkward to, like, get a get around a punch line. No, he was it’s very kind of old school. And yet.


Ira Madison III We know you hate awkward.


Louis Virtel Guys. I’m sorry. I’m still going to be railing on this for the rest of time. I hate the awkward girls. We’ve done it. We hit the button.


Ira Madison III It’s funny to think that for years, the way that you would impersonate Chandler on the show is you would always do the. Could I be any more like you would always hit a lot of dialog with, like, an extra punch, but. It works when you rewatch it because you are accentuating the dialog, you are leaning in to the character he is. Yeah, he’s one of my favorite characters on the show. Of of a show of everyone I feel like was pulling their own weight. Yeah. Even if you were right on David Schwimmer from time to time, because Ross was annoying, all six of them really delivered on that show. They all really made distinct characters who I thought were funny and sort of. Really hilarious. And I think that. Matthew Perry Yeah, is very Jennifer Aniston in that they sort of similarly sort of embody their characters in a way, but then also sort of, I feel like have had similar careers. She blew up a bit more because of the Brad Pitt of it all and then the Angelina Jolie of it all. But film wise, you know, filmography, career wise, they have sort of stayed the same.


Louis Virtel Right. Right. It’s just like there’s something about them where you know what to expect in a good way. It’s like, this is the one. This is the thing they deliver impeccably, and nobody else can do that. Also, I just long for the era and I feel like this is this specifically nineties thing where somebody could be both dreamy and sarcastic. I don’t know that we really have that balance anymore. In a way, I feel like sarcasm is an old school now. Main character attribute, you know, I just don’t think you’ll see like the lead character in a movie from a Gen Z situation being sarcastic, but you know, maybe I’m underestimating this generation. Maybe they’ll come in dry and scowling the way I love all my Dick Cavett anecdotes.


Ira Madison III Bottoms had a bit of sarcasm to it in a bit, but then it also had a lot of lumpiness. Right. But yeah, very sort of disaffected is not very Gen Z now.


Louis Virtel Right now. But like I.


Ira Madison III Know Gen Z, Daria.


Louis Virtel That’s I said when I heard we were going to get a Daria reboot, I’m like, By whom? I want to know who this person is. Yeah. It’s like the difference between Wednesday Addams in the nineties and Wednesday. Addams now, I can hear her trying to emulate this old style of humor, but it doesn’t. It doesn’t fit with it does. It doesn’t sound right in 2023, even though people are fucking obsessed with that show, I guess.


Ira Madison III So let’s talk about Matthew Perry’s filmography, which is so, like you said, of its time. He is in some very nineties romantic comedies and then he’s in some very 2000 movies. Totally.


Louis Virtel Well, I mean, like Three to Tango is the definition of a movie where everyone is facing to the side and smiling on the poster. And there’s one critic, Paul quote, and it’s wickedly funny, which is from 1997 to 2000. Somebody had to call it something wickedly funny. I’m telling you, Like The Cider House Rules was called wickedly funny, You know, like everything.


Ira Madison III Scream was wickedly funny. It is. Who was it? It was probably usually Peter Travers at Rolling Stone.


Louis Virtel Right? Who do? We don’t love him, Right? I just feel like everything he wrote was like a little schmoozing and a little like. I don’t know. He wanted to be he wanted to be the most glowing review most of the time.


Ira Madison III You know what I will say about reviewers of the nineties, though? It was so refreshing as a teenager, obsessed with a teenager and adolescent obsessed with Entertainment Weekly who hated Owen Gleiberman reviews. And when I. And then when I grew up realizing that everyone hates. I want to believe him in reviews. I thought it was just me because he was in Entertainment Weekly every fucking week. So I was like, Well, he’s a professional. How can a professional be bad? And then I realized, No, he just takes up.


Louis Virtel Well, of course, during that time I was an obsessive Leonard Maltin fan. Leonard Maltin, who once upon a time would like wait years before giving a four star review. And I relate to that. No, not everything Should be four stars. That’s the one reason I disagree with the world of Roger Ebert. Much as I am constantly watching Siskel and Ebert videos up until last night, by the way, when you give that many movies, four stars, something’s going on there. I need you to raise the bar a little bit.


Ira Madison III Hmm. That is why, I mean, I love reading Ebert’s old reviews, and I used to read them in print all the time. But there is something much better about film reviewing when it comes in at the movies, because just a simple thumbs up versus a thumbs down or the rare thumbs sideways is much easier to talk about film. I would say, yeah, I enjoy Letterbox’d, but even when I’m Letterboxing, something like, Do I want to get something five stars? So I want to get something for stars where I want to get something. Three stars because I enjoyed it. But it could have been better. But looking at a film with three stars, it’s like, Am I disrespecting this film? Like I just gave Strange Way of Life three stars and.


Louis Virtel Isn’t that a piece of shit?


Ira Madison III Almodovar.


Louis Virtel People hate that.


Ira Madison III Well, first of all, you’ll never talk about Almodovar that way. Okay?


Louis Virtel Oh, and we shouldn’t talk about it that way. Okay.


Ira Madison III I spit on your grave, and I don’t know why I’m Italian.


Louis Virtel Yeah, I don’t know. And neither is he. And please don’t watch this, Pedro.


Ira Madison III It is not great. I will say it. It is a film where. It is a short and I get why he wanted to make it a short. Probably just because he didn’t want to make a whole fucking movie of this. But the themes and the characters in it. It should be longer. I don’t know if you’ve seen the human voice.


Louis Virtel That I love. That’s Tilda Swinton.


Ira Madison III Yes, Well, but that is Tilda. And it’s mostly her giving a monologue. That’s a phone call, right? A man who’s broken up with her. And it’s all her anger and rage. And that works as a short film. Right. This is sort of Almodovar sticking one of his fall movies into 30 minutes, which means that the first 10 minutes of the movie is a lot of fucking exposition. That just makes no goddamn sense. And it’s when you’re in one of his four movies, when he’s borrowing from telenovela tropes and like seeing all these characters, and then you really get the fullness of all those characters. It doesn’t feel laborious. It feels laborious when you have ten, 4 minutes of people just recapping backstory, and then you never even meet any of these characters that they’re talking about.


Louis Virtel Right. A signature of his is there’s a lot of plot. But anyway, back to Matthew Perry. I cannot believe that his last movie is 17 Again with Zac Efron.


Ira Madison III A classic.


Louis Virtel 2009. Yes. We have this, you know, switch bodies trope in about 9 to 10 different movies. I would rank this one about sex, but they were both very charming.


Ira Madison III And also what’s above it.


Louis Virtel Let’s. Well, okay, first of all, big. Second of all.


Ira Madison III Big, I guess.


Louis Virtel Vice versa. Do not come for the legacy of Judge Reinhold. That’s for another podcast. We’re going to get into that some time. Of course, Freaky Friday with Oscar winner Jamie Lee Curtis and Nobel Prize winner Lindsay Lohan. The original Freaky Friday.


Ira Madison III Let me tell you, was not above it, little.


Louis Virtel Oh, please. I didn’t even bring that up. I as as a person, I didn’t bring it up.


Ira Madison III Oh, you know what is very good? Freaky. The horror movie from Chris Landon.


Louis Virtel Also, Wish Upon a Star, of course, is a delightful film. Maybe Katherine Heigl doesn’t work.


Ira Madison III But I would say that this this is a this is a very likable film. Matthew Perry is great in it. Zac Efron is great in it. Leslie Mann is great in it. She always does her best work when she’s free of her husband’s clutches. And it is. I rewatched it at the gym recently because it was just on TBS or something or MTV, whatever, but it was on a TV screen. And I really love when a movie like that is on because it will keep you on the treadmill for 2 hours.


Louis Virtel Right, right, right, right. Also, Zac Efron, by the way, is kind of in the Oscars conversation this year because he’s in that movie about that wrestling family. I can’t be I don’t remember the name of the wrestling family. And it’s an extremely tragic story. But he seems very custom built for this movie. So I’m excited. A I don’t mean to compare it directly to Mickey Rourke in The Wrestler, but sometimes casting works out.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Yeah, It’s the Von Erich family. And their family history is dark as hell.


Louis Virtel No, you take 10 seconds on that Wikipedia, and you’re like, I need to get out of here.


Ira Madison III But I would say that I saw this trajectory for Zac Efron. I think he’s always been a very I think there’s a reason he played a young Matthew Perry. I think Matthew Perry was never really getting to that Oscars conversation. I think that he was definitely I was in that Emmy conversation because, you know, not just friends, but I thought he was great in dramatic roles on like The Good Wife and the Good Fight, and he was good in Studio 60, even though that was a piece of trash of a TV show. But I would say that Zac Efron in the Paper Boy. Affable, but also very good at being serious. And I could see Oscar conversation coming to him in the future. That was not in a Lee Daniels melodrama.


Louis Virtel Right? You just brought up the other TV shows of Matthew Perry. And I wanted to point out at The Hollywood Reporter, my favorite TV writer still is Dan Feinberg, whom I used to work with at HitFix years and years ago. He wrote an awesome tribute to Matthew Perry that you should read, and he brought up how some of his best work was on the show Go On, which was a one season show that was years and years later. Interesting cast. Laura Benanti is in it. A whole bunch of people and this is way better than his other show, Mr. Sunshine with.


Ira Madison III Mr. Sunshine.


Louis Virtel Allison Janney from about 2010. Not a good show. This was about her show. And it also it added dramatic punch to the sort of cynicism he can bring to a role. And it also tied a little bit more deeply into what Matthew Perry believed his own legacy was, which was he was a recovering addict, alcoholic, and he spent a lot of time helping people with those problems, too. So that’s a good TV show to pick. And please read this memorial. It is such a brilliant recollection of his career.


Ira Madison III That’s a great way to I feel like remember Matthew Perry? I think that our most recent memory of Matthew Perry, unfortunately, is his autobiography, where he talks about wishing that Keanu Reeves would die.


Louis Virtel Oh, yes. Oh, my God. I totally forgot that. Yeah, you’re right.


Ira Madison III But I don’t mind him writing that, because when you think about who Matthew Perry is and was, you think about his addiction issues and how public they were and how many demons he had. And I think that people who come back from traumatic moments and sort of reevaluate their lives. And then also we’ve heard from so many people in the industry this since he died who have said that, you know, he personally helped them with their own addiction issues or he tried to help them with just their careers, etc., Like he became like you said, he became very devoted to helping other people. I think that you’re just become a person who’s brutally honest about who you used to be. And I think for him writing that he felt that way about Keanu Reeves at the time was his way of sort of exorcizing those demons, like I was a shitty person. And that is how I felt at the time. And I think it only heals myself and heals that person who I used to be by being honest about who I used to be. You know, there’s no reason to sanitize it.


Louis Virtel Right. Also, it must be said, I have extra sympathy for anybody who’s going through clear personal problems. When you’re on a show as big as friends and it’s in the middle of a show, like friends, I mean, like, what does that do to your brain when you’re getting all this attention anyway? Like, it’s it’s beyond your normal comprehension. It’s that phenomenon for friends remains one of the biggest TV shows of all time. And also every week people have questions about your well-being. You know, there are a couple of times in TV history where this kind of happens like like Mackenzie Phillips leaving the original one day at a time because her drug issues had become so well-known. It’s like, what is that doing to your brain when you’re having this intense experience anyway? And it’s compounded with the fact that you’re on a you’re on a beloved TV show and everybody has an opinion about how you’re doing from episode to episode. Like every time people check in with this show, they’re thinking, Is he okay? Is he getting worse? Is he getting better? You know, it’s just like, I can’t imagine what that does to the brain.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm. And I will also say that hands down, one of my favorite Matthew Perry roles is in The Whole Nine Yards.


Louis Virtel Oh, of course. Yeah. That’s probably his best movie, I guess. Wouldn’t it be?


Ira Madison III Yeah, And that’s 2000. And honestly, I think that the whole ten yards is pretty good, too. I think that The whole Nine Yards is a film that I remember it coming out in 2000 and it getting good reviews and people being shocked that it was good, maybe because it had, you know, Matthew Perry, Amanda Peet in it, it seemed like it was just here’s some TV people with Bruce Willis and it’s like maybe a throwaway comedy, but I think it’s the legacy has proven over the years that it’s a great fucking movie and a lot of people love it. So if you haven’t seen the whole nine yards, if you somehow missed that film, I would definitely recommend watching it. It’s still fucking hysterical.


Louis Virtel Also, by the way, I guess I’m glad we got that Friends reunion recently because when I was watching it at the time, it felt sort of stodgy and like they were milking these emotional moments that weren’t really there. I mean, these people were all around in the world, so it’s just like it didn’t feel that extremely emotional for me. And it felt weird that they recreated all the sets and stuff. But now I’m so glad we had that since there will never be a Full Friends reunion again.


Ira Madison III Let me tell you something, though. I am never visiting that F.R.I.E.N.D.S. museum. Okay.


Louis Virtel Sorry.


Ira Madison III I’m sorry. There were already people doing tearful tributes seconds after he died at the Friends Museum, and I just can’t take it. No, I think I think that’s one of the only things after this death that was annoying, cloying to me. It’s a thing that always happens. It’s a thing where. Someone finds a scene from friends. Right. And tweets it out. 5 minutes after you found out that Matthew Perry passed away and it’s like. This scene. It’s different now or this will never be watched the same again. It was 5 minutes ago, bitch.


Louis Virtel Yeah, you’re already.


Ira Madison III Not enough time to process it. Right.


Louis Virtel Right. You’re the coroners of Twitter, doing the best and worst.


Ira Madison III Performative ness after celebrities die is always highly annoying. And also, just shout out to the fact that TMZ reported this, as they always do, with a celebrity death so soon after finding out about his death because they paid off someone at the hospital, allegedly. It sucks because his close friends and family found out that he died from social media and not from, you know, a group text thread or a phone call. And that’s really shitty.


Louis Virtel I’m going to say I usually think of TMZ as refined and respectful, so I can’t believe it went down this way. Harvey Levin or as I call him, Miss Manners. Oh.


Ira Madison III Let’s get let’s get Heidi Montag outside of LA. What do you think of Matthew Perry dying yesterday?


Louis Virtel Oh, God. Too real.


Ira Madison III All right. When we are back, we will be joined by the delightful Allison Williams.




Ira Madison III When it comes to irreverent millennial comedy and jolting eerie horror performances. Our guest today is the master of both worlds. Most recently, she’s been cementing her legacy as a scream queen. But now she is back, bringing light to sexist historical injustices with her new podcast Erased the murder of Elma Sands. Welcome to Keep It, the fantastic, Allison Williams.


Allison Williams I am so honored to be here. I have spent many, many hours listening to this podcast. More than many like an uncountable amount. And so it’s like surreal to be looking at you and talking to you both.


Louis Virtel So what is wrong with you? What led you down this path? I’m so sorry. This has to be you.


Allison Williams No, I just want to know what’s happening. I want to know how you feel about it. I will speak for all of our fans and say that’s kind of what brings me here every week and the weird trivia that I’m going to learn and the weird rabbit holes I go down after a reference that’s made that I don’t get and then like myself out of a YouTube.  WHere am I?


Louis Virtel All right. I guess I accept that answer. All right. All right. How nice of you


Allison Williams About Katherine Hepburn’s great niece, right?


Louis Virtel Yes. I think Katherine Houghton, who is in Who’s Coming To Dinner. Yes. All right. Moving on. Yeah.


Allison Williams Exactly.


Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, we I feel like have collectively spent so many hours consuming Allison Williams comments. So, I mean, the love is mutual and I have to say, now you’re coming for our gig. Yeah yeah Podcast queen.


Allison Williams Now this is so scary. Like I’m going into your industry. I am. I feel very honored and humbled to be there. I hope it lives up to the standard of the podcasting heroes of the Mount Rushmore of podcast that I listen to. I it’s really fun and very challenging in a bunch of ways that I think people vastly underestimate to produce good audio content. Chief among them, People have no tolerance for bad audio. They just they can tolerate bad video, but people turn things off so fast after bad audio. And what constitutes bad is very broad and is different person to person. And so I bow down. I’m very, very honored to be joining. You are of podcasters.


Louis Virtel But what’s interesting is you would think based on the title, that this is like a traditional like people just discussing the crime or whatever. But no, it’s like an old school radio drama we were just talking about. I don’t know if you’ve seen Killers of the Flower Moon yet, but it basically ends on a note that’s that’s like this format or like the, you know, the old Basil Rathbone Sherlock Holmes performances on the radio or something. So I assume that’s like a wild challenge to have to invent an entire universe and perform it basically only via speaking and sound effects.


Allison Williams Totally. I give all that credit to Alison. We have the same name. It’s inconvenient and confusing and it is what it is. She she she’s the one who she was a tour guide in Manhattan and she discovered this well in Soho in the basement of a clothing store and found out what happened in it, which is that a girl was murdered and the trial for her murder happened in 1800, the first murder trial with the new US Constitution. And the co-counsel for the defense were Hamilton. And she was like, Excuse me, why don’t we know the story? This is how they establish precedent for so many things. And this is why so much of our system is so rotten, because from the beginning, all of that privilege was just baked into all of it. And so she became obsessed with the idea. And then she wrote everything. I came on as a producer and to do one of the voices, but she really wrote everything and directed it and conceptualized like, how do you, how and why is the best way to do this? Like a kind of drama, like a radio show where you come in and you’re put back there? And also, is it how she narrates it, which I think is really helpful because a lot of it is requires footnotes to really get the most out of the story. You need someone kind of guiding you through it. And so I think that device really works. But yeah, I think like I think it could have risked seeming like history class if we had just sort of told the story of it. I think by dramatizing it, you introduce these characters and you introduce the emotions in a way that I’m not sure you would have been able to achieve just with a more dry. Like I love me a history podcast, but it’s not very big, you know, it doesn’t cast a super wide net. We wanted this to to be able to appeal to everybody, not just people who think they are really into history or court or, you know, the Constitution or whatever.


Louis Virtel Losers. And that’s right. Yeah.


Allison Williams No, I. Listen. I am a big a stan for U.S. History, but it’s not, not a big group.


Ira Madison III You and Cardi B, you know.


Louis Virtel That’s right.


Allison Williams Oh my God. That was like between like blinking back tears and, like, snot, like, of being just totally overwhelmed with just saying, like, I’ve been to that house and it was meaningful to me. And it’s just like, what is happening to the world?


Ira Madison III I definitely think someone needs to get this podcast in front of her because Cardi B listening to this, I’m sure I’m sure she probably already knows about it. She’s probably obsessed with Hamilton.


Allison Williams Been to the store.


Ira Madison III The whole extended Hamilton universe I’m sure she knows about. She’s like, Well, here’s some other stories that are going on in history that you need to do a podcast about too.


Allison Williams So you know what? I’m going to fire myself and hire Cardi B and never I’ve never had an easier job insecurity moment in my life. I’m just gon slicing myself so fast. Yeah, we’d be honored, obviously.


Ira Madison III So tell us a bit about the process of making this, you know? You know, I’ve done. Audio for an animated series before, and that was during COVID, you know, so that was a lot of that was very difficult with the Hall doing some of that at home and then going to a studio and then wiping down things. But now we’re in at least a little bit of a different era. So was this sort of like filming? I know you did The Simpsons before. Was this about was this like recording for an animated show or was this like where you together at certain point sort of what was the process of making this?


Allison Williams So it was also COVID, and I recorded it at my parents house in the quietest part of the house that we could find, which ended up being like between like on a long step, but on a staircase in a room that it’s very hard to explain. But anyway, so I was like teetering on the edge of like falling down a flight of stairs. And I was I was by myself. They sent all the equipment. I set it all up. That part was very complicated. I am a major Luddite when it comes to recording. Like the way it all worked felt like magic to me. That I was somehow like a live audience volunteer to help with. And everyone. A lot of the other cast, except for Barry and Tony, I think, were all in a studio together in New York, and they had all been testing and stuff so that they could be there together. And Alison was directing them there and then directing me remotely. And so I was trying to like be extra quarantined to make sure that I didn’t show up in New Zealand with COVID. Because of that, there were two weeks of Anyway, it’s more detail than you needed, but I was by myself, but I could hear all of them and see all of them, and we performed it together. And apparently it’s very unusual to record a show like this one with a whole cast together. But I think it helped contribute to a lot of those bigger scenes. And as a courtroom, I think it would have felt deeply strange to have no moments where they were just like a ton of people together, either, like murmuring in disapproval or reacting to something. And then, of course, the cast is kind of big. There’s a lot of characters that come in and out of the show and some people double up on them, and it was really cool to listen to and watch these performances from all these other actors. And so that was the process. And it was it was, I think, two or three days of filming. And then Tony recorded his separately. And when I first listened to it, it all sounded and felt so cohesive in a way that I knew it wasn’t, which is I’m used to in my job normally. But I, I just it blew my mind the way Alison was able to achieve it in this show. It just all feels very. But yes, the wiping everything down and the being very alone was so strange. I would just emerge from this room after like 10 hours, like just bags under my eyes, like what happened to the world while I was in there. That is still there. The world is still there. Reader.


Louis Virtel The Tony in question, by the way, is Mr. Goldwyn. Who, I think only gets better with age, by the way, one of my.


Allison Williams Oh, my gosh. He’s so wonderful and he’s so good as Hamilton because you hear his voice, you’re like, Oh, that’s Fitz. That’s like my moral, you know, that’s my president in this other universe as president and as Hamilton, it really works. And as the show goes on, you kind of lose respect for him if you come into it with like a big Hamilton The musical bias, You only think of him through that lens. You come into this show with that expectation, and then slowly but surely you start to see just how dismissive he is. Of all the women who take the stand, really, and how hand-waving he is about this girl who was killed. And we start to think, Oh, I don’t know if I still feel this way about him, but it is also Tony Goldman’s voice, so I might still trust him. It’s a very it was really good casting on Alison’s part.


Louis Virtel There’s something so satisfying about, like anybody who is a beloved character and one thing being a total dick and something else, I don’t know why, like as a, as a listener, as like a viewer. It’s something I just want to see. Just like when you whenever you hear that, like John Wayne was like a horrible sexist or racist or something. I want to see that portrayal of John Wayne, you know?


Allison Williams Oh, yeah. I guess that portrayal of. By himself. Of himself.


Ira Madison III Yeah, right. Just him. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Allison Williams Yeah, exactly. Um, anyway, yeah, I think it’s a I think it’s a really fun. Yeah, I have enjoyed that in the past. Is what I’ll say. I guess.


Ira Madison III So. Okay. I mean, that’s he’s also just a person who I feel like everyone loves from pre Scandal to also. I mean, I’m very excited to see his production of um, Pal Joey, that he directed Loretta Devine and that you’ve also you’ve worked with I feel like so many people you’ve worked with are on you know off the great white Way right now. I mean, Christopher Abbott has his production of that John Patrick Shanley play that’s going up, which is like three blocks from me. So I feel like. Have you been able to see that yet?


Allison Williams I haven’t seen that. I just saw I haven’t seen anything on stage in a really long time. And I just saw another friend of mine who I met working on something in a production of The Great Gatsby and Play Mill.


Ira Madison III The musical one that Jeremy Jordan’s in, Yeah, Yes.


Allison Williams Yeah, exactly. I went to see I went to see Guttenberg. I’m going to see Gutenberg soon. And so I’m just starting to get back into I can’t there’s so much theater that I need to see it. Like if I think about it for too long, I get extremely overwhelmed and stressed out. But like, what a beautiful problem to have to not have enough time to go see all the great shows that are on.


Ira Madison III And you started in theater, yes? When you were younger?


Allison Williams Yes, I did. But like when you say it that way, it’s like, I’m SJP and I’m Annie and.


Ira Madison III You’re in some iconic shows now. Sweet Charity, Dreamgirls.


Allison Williams We are in like a deeply local, deeply summer camp. Not even we’re not even talking like stage door. We’re just talking like stoner teenagers, like being like, I guess I understand theater. Here’s your to lunch of Lunchables, like, okay, go sing the song. That’s what we’re talking about. But yeah, like, I wasn’t my parents really didn’t want me acting for real. For real until as late as possible, as long as they could keep me from doing it. So stage was and it was so much fun. And I haven’t done it in so long. And I’d. I’d love the I guess. Yeah. Wow. I am yes. I haven’t done it in a long time.


Louis Virtel So in this podcast and in another prominent horror project you did this year and in one you did a few years ago, I think you do a lot of reacting to ghastly things. And I’m like, Would you consider that a specialty trait of yours? Like, do you think this like this line of acting suits you particularly?


Allison Williams Well? You know, what’s funny about that is like the the idea of I haven’t done a lot of actual screaming.


Louis Virtel Right.


Allison Williams Which is a kind of unusual need to be in. I think I think maybe my response to terror in real life is muted. And that’s I kind of give that to these projects. And I think for those of us who have small reactions to things just have like a delayed kind of PTSD response and then do a lot of therapy later, I’m kind of representing that fight flight freeze and sort of like I guess I’m the freeze girl representing the response to things that are scary. But yeah, I think responding to ghastly things the way I think I actually would if they were coming at me in real life is a thought experiment. I’ve had to run many times in the last couple of years in ways I could not have imagined, like at the beginning of my career. Okay, how would I react if this came towards me or if this was trying to kill me or if I was trying to kill this person or, you know, all of those thought experiments. That is what is acting. But wondering how you would run away from an inanimate object who’s trying to kill you and is animated.


Louis Virtel It’s interesting that you say that because I was watching an old movie, shocker, recently, and like like in a lot of old movies, there will be like a yelling fight or something. And I realize, like, when does when do people yell at each other anymore? Like, it’s it’s the story. Yes. It’s like, that’s it. That’s it. But it’s like otherwise that isn’t really realistic. And what you’re describing, like having a muted reaction is one probably more realistic. And to the problem is it’s just not necessarily as telegenic. So yeah. Have you have you negotiated ways to make that, you know, sort of appealing to the screen?


Allison Williams Well, there’s definitely a balance. Like I think when you watch when you watch something that’s appropriately calibrated, you just think like, yes, that’s the exact amount of scared. They’re not overdoing it. They’re not under doing it. It’s like, well, and my instinct is always to do it. And so part of the director’s job inevitably is like pulling me up. And I sometimes just tell myself to, like, go to a tan and it always ends up being like a universal like for and that I’m like, I’m not just going to, you know. But yeah, I think, I think that’s exactly right. I often imagine if, if we made movies more like I have a pistol on my hip and I’m just like, you know, in that kind of noir way, I’m just like slowly berating you. And it gets louder and louder and louder. And then the. And I’m berating is also holding a pistol. There have been they’re getting louder and louder, you know, like it just doesn’t seem like it happens anymore. But I am curious as to why I think it might have just gone with everything else becoming more real, the lighting, the HD, it all is just so proximate that those bigger, outsized performances have to be couched in a very also esthetically big and outsized world in order for it to work. But it’s fun when people do that now because it happens so rarely.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm.


Louis Virtel Is Lena Dunham’s direction. Does that stand out in your mind still to this day? I mean, I feel like she as a director must be different than how we experience her. You know, just as a as a personality, because she so works it as a director.


Allison Williams I think it was easier for her to direct things that she wasn’t in her direction is so good and so specific, and she’s able to tailor it to the person that she’s talking to like great directors. Can. I think what’s going to work for one actor, what’s going to resonate with them, isn’t going to work for another. I’m sure I’m like a you know, I like love some positive reinforcement. It’s very helpful if you want, like good things from this type, a people pleaser. Like it’s very good to just tell me I’ve pleased you first and then tell me the ways that I’m terrible. And then I’m like, I can I just it it’s all good. But there’s people who are kind of like glutton for punishment or like, tell me I’m bad. I’m like, I’m going to get better and whatever. And so you can a good director can kind of move seamlessly between those styles and figure out how to how to get through to each actor. And also they all work in different ways. Like sometimes what I needed her to do was a line reading. And there are actors who would like slap a director across the face for doing that. But because she’s also an actor, it was very useful for me because she often is going for something quite specific in certain moments. I was just like, Show me your dream thing to see and I’ll just try to emulate it. So yeah, very versatile, I guess is the very succinct way I could have answered that question.


Ira Madison III And then I don’t know if you’ve ever seen Barbra Streisand directing herself in Yentl.


Louis Virtel Oh, it’s amazing.


Ira Madison III No, you should try it. You should track that.


Louis Virtel Just went viral again.


Ira Madison III Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Allison Williams Oh, my gosh. I would love to. What’s the what vibe?


Louis Virtel So she’s she and Mandy Patinkin are in a fight in the movie. And of course, he’s coming out, heard about 500 miles an hour and she’s being gentle and like, seemingly, you know, she’s aghast and stuff. But then as a director, she is like Alpha calling the shots in the middle of being this, like, fearful character. It’s so amazing.


Allison Williams Wow. Okay. I’m going to watch that.


Louis Virtel So did being on a show like that make you ever want to direct?


Allison Williams Not direct. What I what I love is the combination of producing and acting that I’ve found myself in for the last couple of projects. I absolutely love it. Directing requires an eye that I. I don’t have naturally. And maybe if I pay more attention over the next couple projects I might develop. But there are some people who just think that way from the beginning. Actors I’ve worked with and then there are some who don’t and I think much more. I like to know everything. Like I like to be all up in the business of whatever I’m working on. I like to know just down to like the smallest detail, like who we’re hiring, why, what we’re our options. Location, scouts, tech scouts, drafts of scripts like clearance reports about what T-shirt a character can wear in a scene, and what companies said no to using their logo. Like there’s no level to granular. I want to know it all. I’m so nosy and I just leaned into it and I realized that there’s a name for it which is producer. And so the great thing is that an actor who’s just nosey is annoying, but an actor who’s a producer gets to be nosy and it’s not annoying. It’s actually just them doing their job really well. And so I’m loving that combination and it’s fun to then drop all of that, let it just go away and just be an actor on set when it’s time for that to happen. And you can kind of forget all of the other stuff and just be there, be in it in that way. But yeah, directing. I don’t know it ever. I think I view things too much in an in a different way. A director really looks at the world differently and looks at a frame differently and looks at a performance differently and notices a background actor who’s just a second or and that’s not I’m not there, but I know what a script needs and the people that we should bring on to a project. And those are those are the strengths for the. I feel like I’m applying for a job. Will you hire me?


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Allison Williams Can I be really qualified.


Louis Virtel Her one flaw is that she works too hard and wants to know everything. Yeah, right.


Allison Williams My weaknesses are that I care too much and I work too hard.


Ira Madison III With those people would scare me in a job interview. Not particularly. But, you.


Allison Williams Know, I would also see you. Whatever.


Ira Madison III You have to do that.


Allison Williams But I’m sure I’m just, like, type-A and, you know. Yeah, I think I would probably scare you on a job.


Ira Madison III Where there’s your next great horror movie, actually, you know Allison Williams and a job. Yeah. Yeah, you are. You are scary. Scary. The interviewer. And it’s just 90 minutes of terror.


Allison Williams I just don’t blank for the entire movie.


Ira Madison III And so speaking of people that you’ve worked with, you’re friends with Brian Jordan Alvarez, as I need, we need some insight into how he crafted T.J. Maxx, his viral character, who is Australian Ash. The filter on the head, too, is really just what makes me crack every time I see it across my screen.


Allison Williams Brian is Brian is a genius. He takes what we all in theory have access to, which is filters and has turned it into a cinematic universe that I’m very invested in with crossing over storylines and marriages and characters that like I, I don’t know how to express the joy I feel when I see another video from one of his characters, T.J. Maxx, who’s now a pop star. Or when I see like Marnie, the motivational speaker or like all of them, I’m just so invested in them. And recently I saw Brian and he put that filter on his phone, which I mean, I could have on my phone, too. But for some reason, when he flipped it around and it was on his phone, it felt like I was in the T.J. Maxx universe. And I going, God, this is an honor that your phone is capturing me in this filter and thank you so much. And I just think it’s like it’s it’s kind of the modern mask. We’re like almost comedians all our time to be able to see what you look like in this kind of funhouse mirror and come up with the persona behind it is one thing that’s already fun and challenging. It’s another to build out that story and make us so invested in them. All of these characters have have quirks that I love so much. Many of them feel like they like smile really fast and then it drops like as if they don’t give themselves permission to feel joy. And like a lot of them have just arbitrary, odd pronunciation quirks that I love. And his Australian accent is so dead on that he often people are often shocked. Australians are shocked that he’s not Australian. He has just like so nailed this. The persona of a trainer who just lifts keeps to him in this Australian accent. Anyway, if you don’t know what we’re talking about, this all sounds absolutely deranged. And it is, and that’s why you should check it out. He has. He’s very talented.


Louis Virtel No, for this reason alone, we need to have Toni Collette back because she was talking about the few people who’ve mastered an Australian accent who aren’t Australian. And she said, Kate Winslet and that Jane Campion movie Holy Smoke or Holy Smokes and and it might just be her and Brian Jordan Alvarez. I would like to hear her take on this.


Allison Williams I would love to hear it because the reviews are very, very good, including like local radio stations and TV networks, discussing the clips of him and being like, This isn’t an Aussie, this person is from the US and it’s it’s just so impressive, his ear. But also he’s just like one of those people who just observes, observes, observes, and then and then digested and metabolizes it and puts it into these characters in ways that are unexpected and just so specific. I think his specificity is such a superpower.


Ira Madison III I would throw Kerry Butler into that because she was doing Olivia Newton-John’s accent when she did Xanadu the Musical, and I thought it was pretty good.


Allison Williams Oh, okay.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel So Australian Culture, Xanadu, the musical. Yes.


Ira Madison III It’s, you know, the height of culture, which is right.


Louis Virtel There, all roller skating over there. You didn’t know that. Okay? Yeah.


Allison Williams Every one of them.


Ira Madison III Um, I guess lastly, to circle back to what I was asking before, because I’m always asking about theater. Is that something that you feel like you would like to do again, or are you just happy in the film and television world and you’re like, you don’t have an itch to really be on stage?


Allison Williams I would love to do it again. It would be really interesting to see what appealed to me because one of the things I love about film and TV is the intimacy of it. I always found it for reasons like we were discussing earlier. I always find it really hard to give a big performance that hits the back of the house and not think about the front row and what they’re seeing and be like, Oh, they’re getting something that feels really wild to me. And the back of the house is getting something that feels right sized, you know? And so that has always felt really challenging, bursting into song, like doing all of those. Just leaning into the musical of it and knowing that you are performing in an art that is is decidedly different tonally from the one that I’ve been doing for a long time was at one point totally second nature to me because it was all I’d ever done. And now I’d be very curious to see how I would do it. I would love to. I miss it so much. I miss I miss theater people. I miss being around them all the time. I miss being on a stage all the time. I love the rehearsal process of that, but I’ve never done like a long run of something and that’s another challenge. I don’t know these people who do shows for years and years and years and it’s just their normal job is astonishing to me. It’s so admirable that they can just be consistently great for so long. So yeah, I’m definitely, definitely open to it. And the singing part would also be fun to do.


Ira Madison III The run around. Yeah, we got to get in. Then you don’t get around. You don’t have to. You don’t have to cheat to the you don’t have to cheat to the back of the house. You’re like everyone does.


Allison Williams You know what I mean?


Ira Madison III I do.


Allison Williams Absolutely. I’m going to try to talk about this, like, kind of obliquely. But I once did something that was sort of a hybrid between the two. And the challenge was figuring out for television cameras how to use this word a lot. But I don’t know how else to describe it, to calibrate a performance that is known as a musical performance and figuring out in wide and tight shots like, How are you? Are you going to do that? Anyone who’s ever done a movie musical also has the same challenge, and it really is different. Like if you are playing in a broad musical and you’re trying to hit the back of the house with whatever you’re doing, that is a very different performance than one where you’re in a more intimate space and it’s just you and a lens. It feels really it feels really, really different. And the great musical theater actors can make it seem like they are singing just to you and matter where you’re sitting. And that, I guess, is super power. I just haven’t unlocked myself yet, but I’d love to try.


Louis Virtel I wonder if that’s why Jonathan Groff like sits on the front row so they can’t judge how big his performances. They’re too busy white folks.


Allison Williams Listen, if I open my mouth and the noise that Jonathan Groff makes came out, I’d be happy with any saliva that needs to come along. But I like, whatever.


Ira Madison III I mean, I’m going to open my mouth in the front row merrily we roll large, you know.


Louis Virtel Good Lord. Oh, God.


Ira Madison III He spit in my face on Little Shop of Horrors. And it was like I hadn’t had that sensation, that Spring Awakening. And I was like, I miss it. It’s it’s it’s it’s refreshing. It’s like. It’s like that.


Allison Williams Like, sir.


Ira Madison III It is. It is. It’s like the fountain of youth or something. Allison, thank you so much for being here.


Louis Virtel Oh, what a joy. Oh, my God.


Ira Madison III Thank you for listening to us.


Louis Virtel Stopping by. Thank you. Yeah.


Allison Williams Are you kidding? You guys are wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. Keep going. We need you telling us what’s happening and how we should feel about it. I am a sheep. Just continue to live through this culture.


Louis Virtel Fuck yeah. Sheep. I’ll remember that from 2016. Let’s do.


Ira Madison III It. Onward. Yes, yes. I’ve listened to Erased the podcast, everyone. It’s really, really entertaining and I’m just really was like devouring it last night on the subway.


Allison Williams Thank you. Thank you so much.


Ira Madison III <AD>


Ira Madison III So we both saw Priscilla. A Sofia Coppola joint. Mm hmm. And you can bet we’re feeling all shook up about it.


Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. Any other titles I want to throw in? Because I’m going to return that. Want to send our mother fucker?


Ira Madison III We both we touched on it a bit last week, but now we’re going to fully dive into how we feel about the film. Louis, how do you feel about this non queen of the desert?


Louis Virtel Yes, correct. I thank you for that distinction. Sofia Coppola, somebody who I always think I’m going to love the movie and then I end up liking it. With the exception of I thought the boy was really good. So they are not always I mean, like like Lost in Translation. I think it’s good.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Yeah.


Louis Virtel And somewhere like the movie.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm.


Louis Virtel This particular one, I thought it was a really interesting Todd Haynes sort of investigation of Priscilla Presley and Elvis Presley. Basically, Priscilla Presley is a very young girl who is an Army brat, and she’s in Germany, and somebody just walks up to her at a bar and says, Would you like to hang out with Elvis Presley? He throws these house parties and he loves seeing people from home. So she’s like sort of sputtering and unsure what’s really going on. And she says, yes. And really, the entire movie is about her being kind of unsure how she got into this and both enthralled and romanced by Elvis, but also confused just like like, what is it about me that qualifies me to be here? She’s learning to have agency but doesn’t really get it. And what’s interesting about this performance by the actress Cailee Spaeny is this character to me, to my eyes, barely has any qualities. Like, really, you’re just watching stuff happen to her and her figuring out what to do once it’s happened. It’s a little bit like a video game character or something. I might compare it to the movie Blond with Marilyn Monroe, where it’s just like it feels like obstacle after obstacle is being thrown at Marilyn, and it gets a lot grosser and hairier in that movie than it does here. But we see her in in Graceland living with Elvis. And I just have to say Jacob Elordi again, I just saw him in Saltburn where I thought he was fabulous and the best part of the movie. He is so lived in as Elvis Presley. You take no time at all to accept that he is, you know, the biggest pop supernova of all time. And not that I disliked Austin Butler and Elvis, but how close did he get to winning that Oscar? Extremely close. And I personally think if Baz Luhrmann had his druthers, he’d have ditched Austin Butler and picked this guy. He is so fucking good.


Ira Madison III I think Jacob Elordi is the best part of the film, hands down. He is a fantastic actor. I haven’t seen Saltburn yet. I’m seeing it next week. But I think that he is often one of the best parts opposite of Zendaya in Euphoria, and I love him as an actor. So people try to put a lot of this on Timothee Salomé, but he’s sort of a bird, as you see from his relationship history, right? Jacob Elordi. I like seeing him out in fits in public, but also a bunch of books on him.


Louis Virtel Oh yeah.


Ira Madison III He’s really that kind of actor.


Louis Virtel He dovetails with the James Franco universe. Yes, Correct.


Ira Madison III Yes. Hopefully not too much. Yeah.


Louis Virtel I say just in this way alone. I don’t mean to imply anything else.


Ira Madison III Doug started acting school.


Louis Virtel Right? Oh, yeah. I forgot all about that.


Ira Madison III But I will say that this film is interesting, that you compared it to Todd Haynes ish. Because what this film didn’t have is any swagger. And I will say that I love Sofia Coppola probably more than you do. And I think that her movies tend to be a bit more dreamlike. I think they tend to be a bit more exaggerated. I think that’s why I love Marie Antoinette so much. And the Virgin Suicides. But I felt like this film was so straight forward in its presentation that none of it felt like we were really inside a priscilla’s head. It felt like a lot of stuff was happening to her. Once we got to the end where she, you know, divorces Elvis.


Louis Virtel Spoiler.


Ira Madison III With her as he puts on her little purse and walks out of Graceland. It reminded me of Bling Ring. I was like, She looked like Alexis in years. First of all, she was like Madison Beer. The whole movie is how she styled Caleb. Didn’t really do it for me in this film, mostly because she didn’t have a lot to work with, and I felt like the film was drab. It didn’t look great to me. I was bored most of the film. You can tell that it was shot in 30 days because it felt cheap. It felt claustrophobic in how it was set and not in the way that it’s supposed to be claustrophobic for her because she can’t escape Graceland. I really didn’t like this movie.


Louis Virtel That’s interesting.


Ira Madison III It didn’t gag me one bit.


Louis Virtel No, I mean, like, I think basically we have a difference of opinion about the Drabness, which is to say, I thought it served the message of the movie. Well, like, this is somebody who takes this wild opportunity and I’m going to call it an opportunity because Elvis initially romances her and her parents are extremely cautious, like, what the fuck is going on? We’re about to never see this person again. And then 2 seconds after they meet Elvis, they are like, This is the perfect opportunity for her. I thought that was one of the first brilliant things about this movie. How suddenly this I mean, I guess we would call it predatory relationship Elvis has with Priscilla is suddenly great for Priscilla in the eyes of her parents, which that was very well conveyed onscreen. But and then immediately she realizes once she moves in with Elvis, I would say it takes the turn right then, like her life is not fabulous, really. She has a couple of moments of of greatness alongside him when they go to Vegas and stuff. But for the most part, she realizes quickly she is being recruited to be a minor planet in the solar system of Elvis Presley, where he is, of course, the mother fucking son, you know, And I thought, obviously, you know, however long this movie is, an hour and a half, a little longer to be within that drab, vacuum sealed environment there. It can feel a little bit like an energy suck. But at the same time, I remember that feeling. And I think it’s just it’s just extremely well conveyed how like there’s never enough light in any given room. You know, there’s like bright colors and expensive things. And they have a couple of intimate moments. One memorable sequence on LSD, but otherwise it’s just a lot of murky shadows. And this woman wondering what I’m doing here and how much time has passed. That’s another interesting thing about the movie is by the time it’s over and they divorce, you realize how many years have passed and how under stimulating her life has been. And that’s something I reflect upon and think is very well done. Also, something I like about this movie, even though I thought I hated it. Do you know what the last song they play in the movie is?


Ira Madison III I Will Always Love You.  Dolly Parton. Hated it.


Louis Virtel Well here’s the thing. When they played that as she’s walking out of the out of Graceland for the last time, and it ends, by the way, she just leaves Graceland and there’s no coda. That’s the end of the movie. The women in the house are saying goodbye to her and none of the men who run the estate are there. It’s a very telling, interesting moment, but I Will Always Love You. By the time she’s leaving this relationship. It’s such hell. It doesn’t feel thematically appropriate for them to play. I will always love you like I didn’t get it. But I will say there’s a real life irony about using that song that I think is interesting. And it’s twofold. One, apparently on the steps of the courthouse, when they really did get divorced, Elvis sang that song to her. So it was like a shout out to that, which is kind of interesting. But more importantly, Elvis in real life wanted to record I Will Always Love You, which was, of course, a Dolly Parton song at the time. And the night before he was supposed to record it, Colonel Tom Parker said to Dolly Parton, Well, you know, of course Elvis gets half the publishing or more of anything he records, and she tearfully turned them down, being like, Well, that’s the most important song on my catalog. I can’t give that up. And I thought using that song for those sort of in the know was pointing out the fact that if Elvis loves something, he gets to possess it, which I feel like is a big theme of the movie. So I liked it on that level, even though I didn’t like it instinctively because it didn’t gel thematically with what was happening in that moment.


Ira Madison III Well, it’s a beautiful moment emotionally at the movie has a footnote.


Louis Virtel Right? Yes, you’re right. They did not explain it. Yes.


Ira Madison III You know, it’s it’s I mean, I love I love obviously, I love shit like that within film. And I love, you know, the hidden deeper meaning in that. And that would be beautiful to read in an essay. Always lovely hearing you say it right now. Exactly. It’s a hit movie. No, no, it.


Louis Virtel Doesn’t make enough in the.


Ira Madison III Movie. Emotionally, it doesn’t tack. I would actually have loved to see the scene of him saying that I would actually have loved the scene with him trying to get the Dolly Parton song. And then that hits at the end and shows about his possessiveness with other women. I think that that would have actually been a nice track, and I feel like the film for me lacks where we don’t know enough about what is going on in the world. And how she’s being perceived. Mm hmm. For a lot of it, we don’t know.


Louis Virtel Anything about how she is perceived by the outside world. I think it’s true. And yes.


Ira Madison III It is very interesting to me that I was looking up articles on Elvis and Priscilla. And when they’re married, the headlines are the Elvis marries longtime family friend. So it actually gives you the impression that people didn’t know who the fuck this girl was. Mm hmm. And then she sort of just emerges. And that’s why they were doing a lot of. Well, you can’t be by the gates, you know, like, people can’t see you. And that makes sense. Then why? There are all these public romances and other engagements happening in the press. And I loved how she was seeing a lot of that in the tabloids. But then. Where the movie sort of lost me is after she does get put in to the public eye and is married to him. Right. There’s no media blitz around her. There is then no her seeing herself in the press and the tabloids and now seeing how they’re talking about her, the way that she used to see the world talk about Elvis. You know, there’s no sort of twisting of the funhouse mirror for me. And that’s why the film just feels very insular. It would work, I feel like as a one act play as a movie, it feels very. You know, it could have been a doll’s house, but it feels very just I don’t know, it falls apart for me at the end of trying to hit a gut punch that I just think isn’t there. It’s kind of ends.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III It’s one of my least favorite Sofia Coppola films.


Louis Virtel I do think it’s a strength of the movie that you don’t know that much about Elvis other than he’s a perceived phenomenon. Of course, you know, because like for sure, it’s like they don’t get into like, what he’s recording, really. Like, the only glimpse you have is they do have a scene where, like everybody at Graceland is watching the Comeback special. But like, to me, that’s a memorable scene only because it shows you how much time has passed like that. He needs a comeback. You know, and it’s different from when he’s in the Army in the late fifties in Germany. And that’s what we realize, how much time has passed. But but no, I just like that there’s an enigma about him because we don’t know what force is propelling him to be as sort of power hungry or suddenly temperamental as he as he is. And that makes it more interesting once they have real conflicts and we realize, oh, this is an extremely joyless marriage with like no upside. I will say I’m surprised to see a bunch of critics say things like, oh, you know, they had this joyless marriage and he was possessive and he cheated on all these people and they name all the people he cheated with like Ann-Margret and Nancy Sinatra, etc.. But you can tell there’s like a real bond between them. I don’t think I ever really saw that. Like, to me, the point of this was she got recruited to live with him and he got to sort of treat her as he wanted and then changed how she looked when, you know, he got sick of the old Priscilla and needed a new Priscilla to keep himself interested and how she was basically an adornment to his life rather than a person.


Ira Madison III Of course, I mean, I never saw any of the love in it. I actually thought that the romantic aspects, what Priscilla in Elvis were goofy. And I think that this is a more realistic portrayal of the of their relationship, probably. I mean, it’s based on her own memoirs and. It just stilled too emotionally. It just wasn’t there for me. I think the ending of the film really just doesn’t kill it for me. And I also feel like largely, you know, with you not realizing how much time passes in the movie, I was acutely aware of how much time was passing by.


Louis Virtel In your life.


Ira Madison III Having that belief in my life, I was like, Baby, where are we going here? Yeah. I will say what’s interesting now about their relationship, it makes me now want to see a Michael Jackson film because it Isn’t it ironic that their daughter ended up in a similar relationship with Michael Jackson.


Louis Virtel Right? Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Lisa Marie is  a character in this, by the way.


Ira Madison III And so. Yes. Yeah, Yeah. You’re just plucked out to be a very public wife of this megastar. And I wonder what Priscilla thought of that relationship while it was occurring and what Lisa marie thought of that relationship while it was occurring, etc.. It would be interesting to do a similar movie, a sequel of sorts with that relationship.


Louis Virtel Well, I mean, I think you don’t even have to ask for that. There’s no way we’re not getting a Lisa marie Presley movie after the Unexpected death. And of course, that remains a particular nineties phenomenon that has not been matched. I mean, the look on their faces as they kiss at that MTV awards show is just nobody was supposed to see that, let alone the children. Let alone the children.


Ira Madison III Can you imagine, Lisa, Big horrified that Bubbles is going to kill their kid.


Louis Virtel Also, if I’m not mistaken.


Ira Madison III Why is there a monkey running around this once there, monkey running around this place, and then also the whole Neverland Ranch aspect of it basically being a larger, creepier Graceland.


Louis Virtel Totally. And also, I think a big part of Michael Jackson’s psyche was about kind of becoming Elvis Presley, like he wanted to emulate certain things about there’s a.


Ira Madison III Lot of Elvis imagery in his work, especially in the Leave Me Alone video.


Louis Virtel Right? Yes. Oh, a great video. Very underrated. And the Michael Jackson catalog, I think.


Ira Madison III I think that’s probably in my top three of songs. It’s it’s the the production on that song is excellent.


Louis Virtel Just Stop Dogging Me Around. That was the beginning of like the angry Michael era. You know, when you got the They don’t care about us, etc.. But no, you don’t have to be curious about that movie. We almost certainly get that movie. But I want to say quickly, I think the best of MySpace ever was Lisa marie Presley’s recollection of her time with Michael after he died. If you can find that post, that might be the best. The only reason we ever needed MySpace, that post right there.


Ira Madison III Who is in her top eight.


Louis Virtel Well, at the time she was probably a Scientologist and hadn’t left yet. I used to love Lisa marie Presley. Her song Lights Out. We talked about this when she died anyway.


Ira Madison III Never mind the fact that he is Elvis, one of the first celebrities where there were just the continued rumors of him still being alive after he died.


Louis Virtel Right. Right. Well, he had those particular Michael level fans where there’s a certain, shall we say, disconnect from reality that, you know, is, I guess, half of America now.


Ira Madison III So he was you could not in the nineties read the tabloids without seeing a new photo of Elvis spotted like he was Bigfoot.


Louis Virtel Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that is, of course, the era of Elvis impersonators in Vegas being huge for some reason. Guy. Yeah, we really like bastardize his musical legacy in a way, and he really became, you know, to borrow a term, I already use this episode, a macy’s float.


Ira Madison III Well, you know what? He stole a lot from black people. And one thing about those tables, they turn.


Louis Virtel Turn right. Right. Right. I’ve heard that one.


Ira Madison III Anyway, shout out to Jacob Elordi now. It turned out reallly great.


Louis Virtel He is really, really impressing me. I mean, I think he’s he deserves an Oscar nomination for this movie personally.


Ira Madison III Yeah. And I hope that the Academy doesn’t feel weird that there was just an Elvis and they almost gave an Oscar to Austin Butler because he is miles above Austin in this film.


Louis Virtel I have to say, which is I mean, like I thought I enjoyed Austin last year and that movie that I basically disliked.


Ira Madison III But I like it. I like it. I think for a Baz Lurhman film, it’s exactly what you fucking want.


Louis Virtel Right. And I would prefer he just do less all the time. So what I would want, what I want is.


Ira Madison III Not to see it as opposed to for Sofia Coppola’s film, this is not give me the promise of what I usually get from her best films.


Louis Virtel Right. Yeah. There was no kookiness to this, which I feel like you usually get from a Sofia Coppola movie. And none this time.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Anyway, when we’re back. Keep It. And we’re back with our favorite segment of the episode. It’s Keep It. What’s your Keep It this week?


Louis Virtel Mine’s going to be a familiar one, especially to fans of this very esteemed podcast network. You ever get a text because you, you know, signed up for a political campaign once upon a time you don’t remember when and suddenly you have a text that says, Hi there, it’s Joseph Gordon-Levitt. I need to talk to you about something important. No, you don’t. I’m sorry. There’s one thing Joseph Gordon-Levitt needs to do is not talk to me. Maybe if he comes on Cape and talks about whatever’s happening at hitRECord, e-comm, or whatever’s happening. Sure. But I don’t need you telling me what’s up with Adam Schiff, because Adam Schiff has told me 75,000 times, Motherfucker. Girlfriend, I know what’s up. Moment to moment with this person. It’s like Clarissa explains it all, starring this bitch.


Ira Madison III It’s the night he came home. Right. Okay. He’s Michael Meyers.


Louis Virtel Adam Schiff, H2O. Yes.


Ira Madison III Those are so weird. The personalization of them now, where you have people actually begging in your inbox and it’s personalized where it’s. Hey, Louis. Yeah. Hey, girl. AOC here.


Louis Virtel What’s up, fagot? It’s AOC. I’ve been thinking about you and also Adam Schiff. No, it’s like you were saying earlier. It’s like, soon it’ll be. Hey, it’s your mom. I’ve just been thinking about you. It’s been a couple of days since we talk. But also, I would love to talk about Adam Schiff. Just full lies soon.


Ira Madison III And then you wonder if the Democratic Party had, like, has your mom kidnaped?


Louis Virtel Right. Right. Is Debbie Wasserman still a part of it? She would do it. I know it.


Ira Madison III Oh, good. Keep It.


Louis Virtel Yeah. Yes, basically. Yes. Right. It’s just a little it’s a little annoying and a little creepy and a little. They always get your goat. You’re like, Oh, you almost made me think. It’s like. It’s like when you realize you are. You get a number from a phone call, and it doesn’t say spam risk, but it’s an unfamiliar number. And then you pick it up and it’s still a telemarketer. It’s like, how do they get around spam risk? They’re smart.


Ira Madison III All right. My Keep It this week. Somehow this debate is always happening online, but people are once again debating whether or not you should tip.


Louis Virtel Oh, God. What?


Ira Madison III But especially egregious. That was people say that they do not tip DoorDash delivery people, which is insane to me. Well, first of all, well, first of all, if you have money to go out to eat or you have money to order delivery, you have money to tip, and that really involves one or two fucking dollars that you’re giving to workers. And I’m not wading into this whole, Well, we should pay workers more. I’m sorry. Have you met capitalism? Right. But in this country, it’s not happening. And so if you want to participate in that and be an asshole, well, then you can’t get mad when you don’t get paid enough. That work. And you can’t be an asshole about other things when they happen to you. But I don’t know. There’s something extra about people saying they don’t tip on DoorDash, which is so lazy to me, but also. Evil because. And makes no sense. Because. A DoorDash order is you ordering a $5 meal from somewhere that ends up being $32 with all the tips and fees added to DoorDash, which do not go to the delivery person. Right. So. You if you’re not broke, if you’re ordering from DoorDash all the fucking time because you’re spending you’re spending like three times what you should be paying on a meal. It would cost you less to fucking walk to the store. Get that mule to go and then put $2 into a jar to tip someone.


Louis Virtel Right. Well, I mean, it sort of speaks to the fact that I think people have this like very conservative instinct about tips because it’s money you don’t necessarily have to give. So it feels like when you do give it, it’s like they’re seeking money out of you or something. That said, you are stiffing somebody who needs the money. It’s just ridiculous. Right. I mean, it’s like, are you really excited to give extra, extra money to DoorDash? I don’t know. It’s just that’s very bizarre to me.


Ira Madison III Also, people who do not tip. How does your food taste?


Louis Virtel Right. How about that?


Ira Madison III Do you get it? Do they throw it on your roof or somebody they take bye to your fries. Do they spit into your unsweetened iced tea from McDonald’s that you got the day after you were hung over from Halloween? I’m just wondering. I’m just wondering here because. Not tipping. People who are handling your food is a very risky behavior.


Louis Virtel It’s also interesting because, of course, normally this would be the kind of stiffing like you would invoice that you do it. Like if my best friends acted this way, I wouldn’t really know it because I don’t see whether they tip or not. But to put it on social media and people outing themselves, that’s a particular version of arrogant, that’s extremely disgusting and just so proper.


Ira Madison III People are so proud of being gutter. Yeah, like they’re so like, boastful about being like, gutter ball trash online. And it is shocking to me that there’s no humility, there’s no embarrassment that people have any more when it comes to these things. It’s it’s shocking.


Louis Virtel Also, I get food delivered all the time. That just is unspeakable behavior to me. You know what I’m a little wary of in L.A., you see these like little travel robots walking around, giving food to everybody all the time. When you see one of them, it’s pretty cute. Looks like R2D2, you know, makes a little beep beep. It has a little name on the side. It’ll be like Oscar or something. When you see four of those in a cluster on the street. Girl Now I know I’m in the director’s cut of A.I., motherfucker. I know Cooper died for this.


Ira Madison III All these Rosie the robot chase for you, Right?


Louis Virtel And they’re all kind of facing each other and, like, getting around each other to go, like, from intersection to intersection. It looks like Mario Kart, but from a dystopia.


Ira Madison III I don’t see those in New York.


Louis Virtel No, it’s a very L.A. and maybe West Hollywood specific phenomenon.


Ira Madison III Yeah, I think I think you said you see a delivery robot in New York on the street. Somebody has taken that.


Louis Virtel Also. That’s just a prostitute. You know what I mean? Walking around. I want to see the robot smoke. Is that. Is that important to anybody? That’d be fun. Like full Vivian Ward from Pretty Woman.


Ira Madison III There’s your dystopian novel, Smoking. Sex worker robots.


Louis Virtel They. They sound like they’d be my friends. I want to get into this.


Ira Madison III Yeah. What we call that movie. Pretty. Pretty mainframe.


Louis Virtel Yeah, I’m sure. I mean, we will workshop that, and that will not be the title, But thank you so much for your getting the conversation going.


Ira Madison III It’s the working title.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right.


Ira Madison III All right. Well, thank you to Allison Williams for joining us this week. Right. That’s our show.


Louis Virtel We’ll see you next time.


Ira Madison III Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our senior producer is Kendra James. Our producer is Chris Lord, and our associate producer is Malcolm Whitfield. Our executive producers are Ira Madison, the third and Louis Virtel.


Louis Virtel This episode was recorded and mixed by Evan Sutton. Thank you to our digital team, Megan Patzel and Rachel Gaewski, and to Matt DeGroot and David Toles for production support every week.


Ira Madison III And as always, Keep It as recorded in front of a live studio audience.