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Can you believe it’s already June? So much has happened since President Donald Trump returned to the White House four and a half months ago, it’s hard to process. In that short amount of time, Trump has unilaterally thrown the global trading system into chaos and tried to end the constitutional right of birthright citizenship. His administration has stripped billions in federal grants from universities, arrested international students, and put tens of thousands of federal workers out of jobs. The constant din of chaos is exhausting, and it’s easy to grow numb to it, to normalize it. New York Times opinion columnist M. Gessen explains the parallels they see with early 2000s Russia, when President Vladimir Putin consolidated power, and what we can — and can’t — learn from that period.

And in headlines: Ukraine said it destroyed dozens of Russian military bombers in a massive drone attack deep inside Russian territory, the Supreme Court allowed the Trump Administration to temporarily lift deportation protections for around half a million migrants, and Iowa Republican Sen. Joni Ernst told constituents worried about proposed Medicaid cuts that ‘we all are going to die.’

Show Notes:

• Check out M’s column – https://tinyurl.com/mwjux5zn
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• For a transcript of this episode, please visit crooked.com/whataday

TRANSCRIPT

Jane Coaston: It’s Monday, June 2nd, I’m Jane Coaston, and this is What a Day, the show that says Happy Pride Month and says it really, really, really loudly. On today’s show, the Supreme Court says the Trump administration can temporarily lift deportation protections for around half a million migrants. And Iowa Republican Senator Joni Ernst downplays worries that her party’s proposed cuts to Medicaid could kill people because we’re all going to die! But first, can you believe it’s already June? And I don’t mean that in the, like, very lame way people over the age of 30 try to make small talk at parties or with their co-workers. I mean genuinely. So much has happened since President Donald Trump took office again in January. It somehow feels like that was both a lifetime ago and just yesterday. In that time, Trump has unilaterally thrown the global trading system into chaos. He’s tried to end the constitutional right of birthright citizenship. His administration has attacked universities by stripping away billions in federal grants and also going after international students. It’s put tens of thousands of federal workers out of jobs, defied court orders on immigration, eviscerated global humanitarian aid distribution. I could keep going, but I won’t, because I’m honestly exhausted just thinking about it, and you probably are too, but by now you’ve also probably figured out how to cope with it all to some extent. Maybe you’ve dialed back your news intake to preserve your sanity, or you’re trying to spend more time with friends and family, or just off of social media because it just makes you angry, or maybe you find that you feel less shocked by the day in day out insanity emanating from Washington DC. And that’s a normal thing for  human beings to do. We’re a resilient species. We learn how to cope with a new normal. The chaos becomes familiar in a way and recedes into just background noise in our brains as we go about school pickups, making dinner, walking the dog, you know, life. New York Times opinion columnist M. Gessen knows this phenomenon of normalization intimately because they saw it happen in Russia. Gessen was born in Russia, their family fled in the 80s when Gessen was a teenager. They were living in and reporting in the country when President Vladimir Putin consolidated power starting in the early 2000s. And they’re seeing a lot of parallels here in the US to that time period in Russia. Not in how Trump is necessarily transforming the American government, but in how the public is responding to it all. First there’s shock, and then over time, fewer and fewer things surprise us. Just another Monday in America. So I had to speak to M. Gessen about this, about how the Trump administration is counting on all of us normalizing their actions and how we can fight back. M. Gessen, welcome to What a Day. 

1. Gessen: Good to be here. 

Jane Coaston: So I wanted to talk to you about your most recent piece for the New York Times opinion section. You start that piece writing about all the times you were shocked living in Russia and reporting on Vladimir Putin’s early years in power. But then you talk about how that shock wears off and the rise of autocracy can feel routine. Have you been feeling a lot of deja vu recently? 

1. Gessen: Oh, where do I begin? Yes, you know, it’s always hard to write about recognizing something that you’ve experienced before, but most of your readers haven’t. And so so I was trying to capture that feeling. And even at the very beginning of Trump’s second term, I was actually sitting down with my best friend who is also living in exile in New York, hasn’t been here that long. And she was kind of going, well, how are we going to live? And I said, well, I guess we’re kind of gonna live the way we did in Moscow, you know, see a lot of each other, do what we can, prioritize people who are close to us. And she’s like, are you just saying we’re gonna get used to it? And in a way, I guess that’s what I was saying. 

Jane Coaston: What do you think it means to get used to autocracy, where you have a moment in which things are taking place all the time, but at the same time, you are going to the grocery store. It feels like there’s a dissonance inherent to that moment. 

1. Gessen: There’s a huge dissonance inherent to that moment. And you know back when I was living in Russia and Putin’s autocracy was first taking hold, I remember talking to somebody who said something like, how can things be so bad when we’re living so well? And I actually think it’s kind of the human condition to, we want to stabilize. We will adjust to anything. That’s part of what makes us kind of great because we’re as a species, we’re survivors. But it also is our huge downfall because just when we’re capable of action, just when we emerge from that initial state of shock, instead of mobilizing and actually securing whatever freedoms we can secure, we kind of go, oh, this is okay, I can live with this. 

Jane Coaston: Right, I think people have a normalcy bias, where we will normalize things that are not normal just so we can make sense of it, just so we, you know, we feel like we can work through everyday life. And I think something a lot of Americans have talked about is that we have, unintentionally, and maybe even intentionally, become inoculated against the shock of his unpredictability. It’s either you lose your mind, or you just kind of gain this general inability to be shocked. How does that inability to be shocked serve his government and his interests? 

1. Gessen: So I think there are two things happening that render us unable to feel shocked. One is yeah just the sheer amount of stuff and the speed at which he is moving. But another is that he started attacking on all the fronts at the same time, which actually isn’t familiar to me from anything I’ve ever seen. Every other autocracy that I’ve written about has been kind of gradual and very sequential. But this was like everything all at once and that creates a situation in which nothing is new. In that sense, it’s like living in a country at war. And if you’ve ever reported on wars, something really crazy happens, which is in the first few days, like literally in the first few days people just kind of get accustomed to living the way they’re living. Whether it’s without like gas and running water and cooking on the sidewalks, the adjustments that they make to this completely unthinkable new situation become totally routinized. And then after a minute, the only people looking at how the front line is shifting are the military analysts. And I feel like that analogy holds for Trump’s America because all the fronts are open. And so the front lines shifting a little bit forward, a little back, somebody gets released, another hundred people get deported. That’s just details, right? And so inside this ever shrinking space between and among all the frontlines, we just kind of go on living. 

Jane Coaston: I’m curious as to what, first, what you think, what lessons Americans can take from Russian history, but also what can Americans do in this moment, in this political climate to stay sane, to stay shocked, but what is it that we can’t learn from Russia and from Russia’s experiences? 

1. Gessen: Wow, that’s such an interesting question. I think there’s like this larger point of Russians are always as a culture ready for sacrifice and ready to say, okay, let’s tighten our belts and get through this period of hardship. That’s a really easy thing for Russian autocrats to use because that sentiment of we need to sacrifice for the greater good is really ingrained in the culture. But I actually think it exists in this country. And I think Trump, with his really excellent political instincts, is tapping into that. When he says, well, you know, we may have to live through a period of hardship. And things may get tougher because of tariffs and girls may have to have fewer dolls, but then things will get better. That’s super familiar to me. And that, I think, taps into what is probably not so culturally specific, which is this tendency of people to substitute a sense of belonging to something great for their personal sense of happiness and wellbeing and private connectedness. So I think with all the differences in culture, this is actually something that Americans could learn from Russians, like to recognize the political appeal of belonging to something great. And the really age old trick of totalitarian leaders who are always dangling the carrot of stability while creating greater and greater instability so that people fall into line following this ever-dangling carrot. 

Jane Coaston: I want to talk about Gaza and how you write that Gaza is an example of something that once shocked us, but we’re now becoming numb to the horrors after 19 months of war. Suffering in Gaza is still in the headlines, we’ve been talking about the atrocities taking place there on our show, the New York Times is covering it. Does it make a difference if readers aren’t receptive to this coverage? If readers aren’t t the people who are asking for this, what is the role of journalists here, do you think? 

1. Gessen: Oh, that’s that’s a million dollar question. And you know, as somebody who’s reported both on Israel-Palestine and on Ukraine, like I know this, the Times is very nice to me and they still let me write about Ukraine and nobody reads it. And yes, the times has been very committed to covering on the news side, to covering both Gaza and Ukraine. And I suspect that on the news side, nobody reads it either. So the role of journalists, I think we have two challenges. I think one is to create a record. Even if nobody reads past that headline, if people literally see another entire family wiped out in Gaza and move on to the next story, at least they can’t ever claim that they didn’t know. And the other challenge is to try to break through this sense of disconnection and of familiarity. One thing that I was talking to a colleague the other day about this, Al Jazeera continues to cover Gaza in a passionate way that finds its viewers every day, even though every day the exact same thing happens. And Israeli television continues to cover October 7th, 19 months after the fact, and still it finds viewers. And that’s because the viewers of both Al Jazeera on the one hand and Israeli television on the other feel a deep emotional connection to what they’re covering. And so we just need to try to create those connections to tell that one story that will break through this sense of familiarity. 

Jane Coaston: You write in your column that we are stability-seeking creatures, and it can feel like an accomplishment to adjust to things. But do you think that in our efforts to seek stability, we are giving in to this administration in some way? 

1. Gessen: Yes, in some way we are, and I think it’s inevitable. And I think we have to figure out a way to think about this complexity. This administration, however long it lasts, is going to make us all worse as individuals in a society, and as journalists, because in some way we’re going to normalize this stuff because it’s becoming normal. And as humans, we’re gonna become stupider and more simplistic. Because our entire society, under the influence of this kind of autocracy, and this happens everywhere in these kinds of regimes, it becomes stupider because we’re constantly engaged with bad ideas. So we know this. We’re going to lose some. The goal is to not lose everything and to resist it so that we’re able to reclaim a vision of the future and a kind of complexity and a space of freedom. 

Jane Coaston: M, thank you so much for joining me. 

1. Gessen: Thank you, this was great. 

Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with M. Gessen, opinion columnist for The New York Times. We’ll link to their piece in our show notes. We’ll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. [music break]

[AD BREAK]

Jane Coaston: Here’s what else we’re following today. 

[sung] Headlines.

[clip of unnamed journalist] Russia has confirmed multiple air bases have come under drone attack in the Murmansk and Irkutsk regions. According to local witnesses, explosions were heard near the base in Murmanssk and fires began in several places. 

Jane Coaston: Ukraine claimed it destroyed dozens of Russian military bombers in a massive drone attack deep inside Russian territory over the weekend. President Volodymyr Zelensky confirmed the attack in a post on Twitter Sunday. Zelensky said the attack, dubbed Operation Spider’s Web, required the use of more than 100 drones and took more than a year and a half to plan. Here’s more of Al Jazeera’s analysis of the attack. 

[clip of unnamed Al Jazeera reporter] Now this is the single largest attack that we’ve seen in one day across multiple military air bases inside Russia since the war began in February of 2022. What we do know is that these air bases are home to Russia’s strategic um air bombers that have been involved in launching attacks across Ukraine over the past three years. 

Jane Coaston: Zelensky noted the operation’s base was located inside Russia, next to an FSB or Russian Security Regional Headquarters. An unnamed Ukrainian security source described the operation to the Associated Press. They said the country’s forces smuggled the drones inside mobile wooden houses, which were then driven onto trucks into Russian territory. The drones were hidden under the roofs of the houses. The official said Zelensky personally supervised the attack. Just hours earlier, Zelensky said Ukraine would be sending a delegation to peace talks with Russia in Istanbul scheduled for today. Russia also continued its attacks on Ukraine over the weekend. And last week launched its largest airstrike in the three-year war. NewsNation confirmed that President Trump was not aware of Ukraine’s attack plan. At the time of our taping late Sunday, President Trump had yet to comment on the strike.

[clip of Howard Lutnick] The president’s going to win like he always does, but rest assured, tariffs are not going away. 

Jane Coaston: Always wins? Sure. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick defended the president’s right to bypass Congress and levy tariffs using broad emergency powers during an appearance on Fox News Sunday. Last week, the U.S. Court of International Trade struck down most of the tariffs President Trump announced in April on virtually every foreign nation. The panel of judges wrote that the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, or IEPA, does not grant the president the authority to impose those tariffs. But a federal appeals court blocked the ruling the next day. During his appearance on Fox, Lutnick claimed even if the courts ultimately rule against Trump in this case, his administration could just leverage quote, “another or another or another authority instead.” Kevin Hassett, the director of the National Economic Council, also expressed confidence the courts would uphold Trump’s authority to impose tariffs under IEPA during an interview with ABC Sunday. 

[clip of Kevin Hassett] That’s plan A, and we’re very, very confident that plan A is all we’re ever going to need. But if for some reason some judge were to say that it’s not a national emergency when more Americans die from fentanyl than have ever died in all American wars combined, that’s not an emergency that the president has authority over. If that ludicrous statement is made by a judge somewhere, then we’ll have other alternatives that we can pursue as well to make sure that we make America trade fair again. 

Jane Coaston: Quick fact check, Hassett is wrong about his figure. Yes, a lot of people have died from a fentanyl overdose, but not more than all American wars combined. And also, this is like the fifth reason we’ve been given for these tariffs. All the while, President Donald Trump keeps threatening new tariffs. On Friday, he announced plans to double existing tariffs on aluminum and steel, from 25% to 50%. On Truth Social, Trump added that he expected the tariff to take effect Wednesday. The Supreme Court Friday allowed the Trump administration to end temporary legal status for roughly half a million migrants from Cuba, Haiti, Nicaragua, and Venezuela for now. The ruling applies to migrants from the four countries living in the US under a Biden-era expansion of an immigration program called humanitarian parole. It allows certain people fleeing unstable countries to temporarily enter the US and stay here legally. The Trump administration attempted to end it in April. The court’s order was unsigned, though liberal justices Ketanji Brown Jackson and Sonia Sotomayor dissented. It’s also not the final say in the case. The decision just ends deportation protections for these migrants while the case makes its way through the lower courts. In her dissent, Jackson wrote that her colleagues failed to consider, quote, “the devastating consequences of allowing the government to precipitously upend the lives and livelihoods of nearly half a million non-citizens while their legal claims are pending. 

[clip of Joni Ernst] People are not. 

[clip of unnamed person] People will die. 

[clip of Joni Ernst] Well we all are going to die. So, for heaven’s sake. 

Jane Coaston: Republican Senator Joni Ernst of Iowa gave a masterclass in how not to show empathy Friday during a town hall in her home state. Ernst’s constituents pressed her about the massive spending package House Republicans passed last month, aka President Trump’s big, beautiful bill. Many voiced concerns about the hundreds of billions of dollars in proposed cuts to Medicaid in the legislation. Ernst defended them as merely cracking down on waste, fraud, and abuse. As you can imagine, the, we are all going to die response did not go over well. But Ernst didn’t seem to care. The senator took to Instagram the next day to post a sarcastic apology video, a video she seems to have recorded at a cemetery. 

[clip of Joni Ernst] People are going to die. And I made an incorrect assumption that everyone in the auditorium understood that, yes, we are all going to perish from this earth. So I apologize. 

Jane Coaston: She continued. 

[clip of Joni Ernst] And I’m really, really glad that I did not have to bring up the subject of the tooth fairy as well. But for those that would like to see eternal and everlasting life, I encourage you to embrace my Lord and savior, Jesus Christ. 

Jane Coaston: Get it? She brought up the Tooth Fairy because she thinks that the people who are mad at her didn’t know death exists because they’re dumb and also believe in the Tooth Fairy? Get it? I don’t. To be clear, the government’s own independent analysis says millions of Americans will lose access to health insurance under the proposed cuts. And what happens when millions of people lose health care coverage? Well, they don’t get visited by the tooth fairy. And that’s the news. [music break]

[AD BREAK]

Jane Coaston: That’s all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, contemplate that we live in a world in which the rapper 50 Cent might be the only person standing in the way of a Diddy pardon and tell your friends to listen. And if you’re into reading, and not just about how seriously, 50 Cent said that he’s going to reach out to Donald Trump to tell him Diddy said mean things about him, like me, What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at Crooked.com/subscribe. I’m Jane Coaston and what a time! [music break] What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It’s recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Fohr. Our producer is Michell Eloy. We had production help today from Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters, and Julia Claire. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison, and our executive producer is Adriene Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. [music break][AD BREAK]