Heartbreak Feels Good in a Pod Like This | Crooked Media
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December 08, 2022
Dare We Say
Heartbreak Feels Good in a Pod Like This

In This Episode

Josie, Alycia, and Yasmine dish on White Lotus, The Menu, Glass Onion, and everything else they’ve been watching lately. Plus, breakups fucking suck! The girlies discuss how to move forward with your life after heartbreak because of lovers, friends, or family (you might need our sad girl playlist after this one) before getting into a HEATED Ickuation Room about New Year’s.

Show Notes

Let’s Rally for Brian’s Battle Against Leukemia



Yasmine Hamady: Before we get to our show, I want to take a moment to talk about something really important to the whole Dare We Say family. Our music composer and former editor Brian Vasquez was just diagnosed with leukemia. Brian was absolutely instrumental in the creation of this show, but more importantly, he’s a wonderful and a kind person. His friends created a GoFundMe to help ease the stress during this emotional and financially difficult time. If you can please donate to Brian by going to helpBrian.net. That’s help Brian, B-R-I-A-N dot net. We’ll also put it in our show notes. Now let’s get to the theme music composed by our very own Brian Vasquez. [music break] [singing Ave Maria] On a scale of 1 to 10, how good was that? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: That was really great, actually. I enjoyed it. 


Yasmine Hamady: Do you think I’m talented? 


Josie Totah: It was good. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: Were you guys just saying that? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: [laugh] So you think I’m pretty. 


Yasmine Hamady: Do you think I’m pretty? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um. Yeah. Who are you? 


Yasmine Hamady: Hi everyone. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Who just sang for us? 


Yasmine Hamady: Um. The person who sang for us is Yasmine Hamady. And this is me, Yasmine Hamady. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Wow. Okay, cool. Um. I’m Alycia Pascual-Peña.


Josie Totah: I am Josie Totah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.


Yasmine Hamady: And this is– 


[spoken together] Dare we say. [elongating vowels at the end]


Alycia Pascual-Peña: That was a great like– 


Yasmine Hamady: Whoa. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –acting exercise we just did. 


Yasmine Hamady: That was so funny. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Wow. 


Yasmine Hamady: Anyways, um I want to bring up something that’s very important to me. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Okay. 


Yasmine Hamady: And that is something called um White Lotus. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mhm. Okay. 


Josie Totah: Mhm. 


Yasmine Hamady: We have a lot of thoughts on this. Now I’m only two episodes in but all I have to say is Jennifer fucking Coolidge. Jennifer fucking Coolidge. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: She’s a national treasure. Like–


Josie Totah: If White Lotus is important to you, it is ingratiated in my blood. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mmm. Talk about it. 


Josie Totah: It is. It is the oxygen that pumps through wherever oxygen is supposed to pump and– 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes heart– 


Josie Totah: –and it doesn’t. 


Yasmine Hamady: –arteries. 


Josie Totah: And it’s. It’s also why I’m alive. I’m obsessed. I have been up day in and day out. I’m on subreddits. I’m on Quora forums, I’m on Quora forums.


Yasmine Hamady: She’s on QAnon, I’m joking. 


Josie Totah: I’m a part of QAnon because of White Lotus. No, I, I I love it. I’m addicted. I’m obsessed with everyone. And I’m right there with you. 


Yasmine Hamady: Who would you be if you had to tag yourself in a character of White Lotus this season, who would you be? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Hmm. 


Josie Totah: Well, can I just say, I think a white win a white slay of the of the–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Wow. 


Josie Totah: –century right now of the moment is Megan, who plays Daphne, like an incredible– 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes. 


Josie Totah: –Caucasian performance. 


Yasmine Hamady: She’s killer. 


Josie Totah: I didn’t I did not want to love her. Her performance is so layered. It is so just beautifully woven, understated, but like sinister and coded. She’s just she’s exceptional. Exceptional.


Yasmine Hamady: That’s exactly the word is exceptional. And honestly, Theo, Mr. [?].


Josie Totah: And Aubrey Plaza, of course, is just– 


Yasmine Hamady: Aubrey Plaza. 


Josie Totah: –amazing. 


Yasmine Hamady: I mean, this is like my bisexual fantasy, looking at Theo James and Aubrey Plaza on the same screen, this is my dream. 


Josie Totah: Theo James, Theo James is like, it’s I don’t know, he’s like a sexy pair of underwear that has a stain on it. 


Yasmine Hamady: Oh! 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh. 


Josie Totah: It’s like–


Yasmine Hamady: He’s been worn in. Yeah, he’s been through the ringer a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 


Josie Totah: Yeah like it’s really ugly. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Ay dios mio.


Josie Totah: But it’s like, you know, there’s it’s like there’s something in your body that wants it, even if it’s really bad for you. And I’ll probably give you an infection. 


Yasmine Hamady: An infection. It’s giving yeast infection. But no–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Wow. 


Yasmine Hamady: –here’s the thing. It’s like, I just know you and Daphne need to be in the next White Lotus together, or you and Miss Plaza. All I that’s all I know for next season. And all I know for next season is I’m going to be with Jennifer Coolidge. I’m thinking south of France or Bangkok. And we’re sprinkling we’re sprinkling our ex-husband’s ashes like salt on our food, eating it. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh iconic. 


Yasmine Hamady: With no with no problem. That’s all I know for next season. 


Josie Totah: I’m curious Yasmine because I’m not I don’t want to give any spoilers to anyone. But you’re on episode two. In your head, do you have an idea of who the killer could be?


Yasmine Hamady: No. 


Josie Totah: Or who could die? 


Yasmine Hamady: No. I have an idea of who dies, but not exactly who the killer is.


Josie Totah: Alycia. You need to watch this show. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I know. 


Yasmine Hamady: She does.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I’ve been saying that I need to watch it, I think ugh. 


Yasmine Hamady: Go on. What?


Josie Totah: Why haven’t you watched it? I mean, you’ve watched Succession. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I know. 


Josie Totah: That’s like the whitest show in the universe.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I know. I’ve watched Succession. I’m actually watching Westworld, which doesn’t have that much diversity either. Um. As the girls know, I kind of have like a diversity quota. And if– 


Yasmine Hamady: Sure. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –there aren’t enough Black people or queer people or Asian or Indigenous people, I don’t want to watch, um but I make the exception for really well written television. 


Yasmine Hamady: I agree. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um. Because I love to learn and grow and just admire–


Yasmine Hamady: Good art. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –Art. But. Yeah. I got to get into White Lotus. I think maybe just cause I’ve been bingeing other things. Um.


Josie Totah: What have you been bingeing? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I try to balance it out so I’m not, like, in too dark of a place. But–


Yasmine Hamady: I can’t wait though. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Right. 


Yasmine Hamady: I can imagine you going, like, watching, like I may des–, like, I may destroy you. Um.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I binged I may destroy you– 


Yasmine Hamady: Dopesick. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –in two days. Like an insane person. 


Yasmine Hamady: Of course. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I don’t know why I did that, but right now, Westworld um Reboot, which was like [gasp] this com– 


Yasmine Hamady: [gasp] It’s really good. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: It’s so good. 


Yasmine Hamady: It’s actually really good. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And I don’t feel like people are talking about it. 


Yasmine Hamady: No. But I feel like it’s going to it’s going to happen like kind of like how Succession happened so it’s going to be like two or three seasons and then it’s going to blow up. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Well, I hope it gets the support. I think it’s really funny. I think. But also I’m like, am I just super biased because it’s um– 


Yasmine Hamady: Keegan-Mike and Michael Key. [edit: Keegan-Michael Key]


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. Exactly. And then also it’s such like an L.A. show. Like, I love being in the writers room. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I love, like, the absurdity of, like, the showrunners together. Like, I just I think it’s really cute and self-aware and funny and has great conversations. But yeah, Westworld, Reboot, and then um I’m running it back on Atlanta. 


Yasmine Hamady: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I think it’s some of the best television ever. Um. Yeah. What else have I watched? I’ve really been, like, watching a lot of stuff. I’m watching a lot of movies. Feel like I’ve been at the movie theater a lot. Like–


Yasmine Hamady: Really. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –just watched The Menu, Knives out–


Yasmine Hamady: What did you think? 


Josie Totah: I saw– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Did you guys watch it?


Josie Totah: I haven’t seen the Menu.


Yasmine Hamady: I haven’t either. 


Josie Totah: No what’s it like. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Okay. 


Yasmine Hamady: Alycia. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I really liked it. Ironically, the person– 


Josie Totah: That just made me hungry. [laugh] I’m just gonna have a bite. Carry on. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Please, please. You’re so precious. 


Josie Totah: [?] have a little bite.


Yasmine Hamady: Wait. I’m sorry. Josie looks really cute right now. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: Continue. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I just want to say–


Josie Totah: [?] my makeup artist on set told me that I looked like a poodle. 


Yasmine Hamady: You want a big poodle. [said in a strange voice]


Josie Totah: She said I looked like a poodle. She said I looked like a dog. 


Yasmine Hamady: [banter] Josie looks like a big poodle. 


Josie Totah: Anyway, continue while I eat this. This is my first meal in 36 hours, by the way. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh, my gosh. 


Yasmine Hamady: Okay, well, no, that shouldn’t happen again. 


Josie Totah: No, no, no. It’s because I had the stomach flu. 


Yasmine Hamady: Oh. [laughing]


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I went from mental health check to oh okay yeah yeah yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: To be like, oh, wait. Yeah, that’s so fair. Alycia. 


Josie Totah: Sorry. 


Yasmine Hamady: Continue on your critique. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Okay The Menu specifically. It’s just funny because I went with someone who didn’t love the film and I thought–


Yasmine Hamady: Rea–and they’ve watched it prior? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No. We watched it together. 


Yasmine Hamady: Oh, okay. Okay. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: Got it. Got it. Got it, got it, got it, got it. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: We saw it together and our opinions were were pretty different. But I–


Josie Totah: That’s hilarious.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I, I like it because um it was weird and like I was at the edge– 


Yasmine Hamady: Mmmm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I was like I was at the edge of my seat. I really think the performances are beautiful. I love the way it was shot. I’m also like such a sucker and a nerd for social commentary in a weird way. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes, yes, yes. 


Josie Totah: Um. I just I thought it was innovative filmmaking. I think it’s a little absurd. 


Yasmine Hamady: Love. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um. Which I think is the point of it, but something that the person I watched it with and I, we both said is that we kind of wanted like more intentionality, like how do I explain this without giving away a part of the film? I wish that there was a point in the movie where their social commentary about elitism and capitalism and greed and overindulgence. Right. But someone while trying to counter that elitism goes like really, really far. Right? 


Yasmine Hamady: Extremism. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah, extremism. So I kind of wish that there was a point in the film where one of the people being critiqued at that point would have said, like, you now have become us, like you’ve now– 


Yasmine Hamady: Oh! 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: You you like, and I don’t know why, but me as a viewer was yearning for that. 


Yasmine Hamady: Got it. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But that could also just be like me as the type of individual I wanted something to wrap it up. 


Yasmine Hamady: Uh huh. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Not like wrap it up with a pretty bow. It’s not that type of film, um but I enjoyed it. I also love that it was an hour and a half and it said a lot to, every single–


Yasmine Hamady: I– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: This ever single–


Yasmine Hamady: Yes. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Cause’ I’m also like, why are we making three hour movies–


Yasmine Hamady: Yes Alycia. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –without intentionality, without um actual purpose, and without arcs that like– 


Yasmine Hamady: No. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –didn’t didn’t drive me to feel anything? Like I don’t feel imprinted by the film. Um. Is it a film that I could watch a bunch? No just because I’m not a gory girl. Um. But I thoroughly did enjoy it and I thought I was like, this is cool filmmaking. Like, I love like Josie and I watched The Triangle of Sadness. I was like, this is cool filmmaking. It makes me excited about film. 


Yasmine Hamady: I am dying to see that. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Woman King. Wakanda Forever. [banter]


Josie Totah: I love Triangle of Sadness.


Yasmine Hamady: Well, I think I just want to touch on– 


Josie Totah: Wakanda’s very long, but it’s amazing. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah, yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: I, I think it’s important. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But I think it deserved it. Personally. 


Yasmine Hamady: I agree. I think there’s very specific films and TV series that can only be that can really be long. Like, I don’t think the Irishman should have been like three and a half hours long. Like, specif– I think there’s a lot of ego films and a lot of ego TVs– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: That they’re the directors and the filmmakers are making it for the sake of making a film, not for the sake of the storyline, not for the sake of actually um conveying a magnificent story. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. Saying something. And even–


Yasmine Hamady: Do you know what I mean? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And even if it isn’t a grandiose idea, saying something, ironically, the person who I went with said they felt that The Menu was ugh how do I say this in other terms? I guess I can be a big girl. 


Yasmine Hamady: Please. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: He no– 


Yasmine Hamady: Please. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: He was saying like because I don’t want to say it like this, because I feel like it sounds crass. But anyways, he he was like, I don’t like to watch film that feels like the masturbation of a writer or like the masturbation of a director where it wasn’t really for the audience and it was more for them. 


Yasmine Hamady: See that’s [?]–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And that’s that’s what he felt The Menu was. 


Yasmine Hamady: Oh. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I didn’t share that perspective, but I was like– 


Josie Totah: Well, why would anything anyone make be for the audience? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: True, true. But not not like that like–


Yasmine Hamady: I disagree with that. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: You shouldn’t make–


Josie Totah: I think I think maybe what you’re saying or what your person who you saw the movie with was saying, is that [laughter] um. 


Yasmine Hamady: The way Josie looked at Alycia. Whichever person male figure in your life went you–


Josie Totah: Is that–


Yasmine Hamady: –movie with you. 


Josie Totah: Is that not doing something for the sake of just doing something and having a–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: That. 


Josie Totah: –reason behind it. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Exactly. 


Josie Totah: And not just glorifying violence and glorifying– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: Um. Certain like like gimmicks and–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Exactly. 


Josie Totah: Um. Things of that nature so that it doesn’t come across as like just doing it for no reason. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. And then just like– 


Josie Totah: So giving it a purpose. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Violence, or, like, crass–


Josie Totah: For the sake of violence. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –just for the sake of it. Yeah, exactly. 


Yasmine Hamady: Ohh. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And that’s what he felt The Menu was to an extent. I think a lot of films are that. I didn’t feel the way–


Yasmine Hamady: I agree with I agree–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –that way about The Menu. 


Yasmine Hamady: –a lot of films. I can’t give a comment yet on The Menu because I haven’t watched it yet. But once I do, I will text you guys. I think when award season comes, which is coming up right around the corner, I think Dare We shay. Dare We Shay. Sorry, you guys, I have ugh a piece of gold in my teeth. Um. Dare We Say should have a um. 


Josie Totah: Did you get a grill? 


Yasmine Hamady: No, I just got like a little tooth grill. With diamonds and gold. 


Josie Totah: Is that what you sent me a photo of? I didn’t know that was real. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah, I did. I got it ingrained and the guy said to me, you have really small teeth. And I go, um and he had to remake it because my teeth were so small. But I was like, I actually don’t have small teeth, actually. I don’t know. I like my teeth. Thank you very much. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: As you should. 


Yasmine Hamady: But I like the guy. Anyways, we’re going to wrap up and we’re going to talk about something that’s very important to us and that is how to move forward, whether it’s someone you love or someone you did love. Relationships with your friends and familial. And also in today’s episode, we’re going to be doing an Ickuation room. We’ll be right back. [music break]


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Hey, don’t forget to follow us at @darewesay on Instagram and subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube.com/darewesay. 




Yasmine Hamady: Let’s be honest. It’s so fucking horrific to have a heartbreak. Like personally I’ll listen to Phoebe Bridgers on loop, sit in the shower floor, drink my own tears, wear a black veil for 17 years until I get over someone or something. But that can only last for so long. You’re going to have to get yourself up off the floor, mop up the tears, and cut that hair, honey, and do what you must. And there’s ways to go about that. There’s ways to mourn someone that’s honestly still alive. And there’s a way that we’re going about this. We’re not saying you have to move on. We’re not saying you have to keep pushing. We’re saying you have to move forward because you have to. This is an episode that’s very near and dear to us, whether it’s talking about family, whether it’s talking about friendships, whether it’s talking about a lover on how to move forward and to be present. So, ladies, what are your thoughts on heartbreaks? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mmm. 


Josie Totah: Wow. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: That gave NPR.


Yasmine Hamady: Yes NPR. 


Josie Totah: That gave my name is Sarah Koenig, and this is Serial. [laughter] That was everything that was so incredible. I literally thought I was on Serial cause I remember when I almost fell asleep in the back of my mom’s Mercedes C300 2012.


Yasmine Hamady: I was actually going to say, you guys didn’t say anything. Which [?] I was like– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No. I was mesmerized. 


Yasmine Hamady: You guys were–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I was present. I wanted I wanted to hear all of it. 


Josie Totah: I was too. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Thank you so much. 


Josie Totah: Even though I literally I kept I kept cutting out, kept going out [making weird growl bark sound] 


Yasmine Hamady: Well, that’s what I said– 


Josie Totah: Every time you– 


Yasmine Hamady: –actually, every time. Yeah, um. 


Josie Totah: Every time you’re speaking. So I don’t know if that’s a tech thing, but we’ll we’ll carry on. 


Yasmine Hamady: Well, what’s the difference between moving forward and moving on for you guys in relationships? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mmm. Gosh. Well. I love the idea of like moving forward because it’s like, I think growing up and at least. What I was told as a child was the fact that like, oh, like, you move on. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes yes. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like like, oh, it didn’t happen. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: It’s whatever. Keep it pushing or like whatever. It’s not that deep. It’s kind of a motto that I live by, but um you can’t do that with, like, people that have left, like, an imprint on your life. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes, yes. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: You know what I mean? Like. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um. Whether I like it or not, whether like I like to admit it or not, there are people that impact you and change who you are um forever. 


Yasmine Hamady: For better or for worse. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah, and that doesn’t go away just because you distanced yourself from this person. So I think it’s a really beautiful idea to say, how do we alter the way that we approach a heartbreak? 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Or um needing to distance yourself from someone for your health. And it’s like, you know, you cherish what was good. Um. But know that you deserve better and know that this person is hindering your growth. So, you know, you don’t harbor anger towards them, but you just move forward and you can still cherish the beautiful moments that you had with them, or um–


Yasmine Hamady: Which takes time, by the way. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: I think there’s a very um there’s a slight difference about moving forward and moving on, but there is a difference, for example, moving forward as you’re taking those experiences and you’re taking those memories, the good and the bad. And you’re you’re growing. You’re moving forward with your life, without this person in your life. And you’re letting it affect you in your but in a good, positive way. You’re you’re thinking about yourself. Moving on is you’re acknowledging all of that but you’re it’s still in the back of your head, but you’re still keeping it pushing like Alycia said. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah, yeah yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: When I think moving forward is more effective and also more healthy. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: Because [indistinct]– 


Josie Totah: So that person’s just processing?


Yasmine Hamady: I think it’s– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: –that’s how you process this grief because heartbreak is grief. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: Why wouldn’t you want to process it? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But that’s what we’re saying. I think we’re saying that moving forward is processing it and saying like we’ve been fed like through heartbreak songs, through movies and stuff. When you move on, you burn the pictures, you disregard this person. 


Josie Totah: Right. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: It’s like, fuck them. And it’s like, no, moving forward is going like, no, this person meant a lot to me. It hurts in the moment, but I’m going to cherish what was good. I’m going to take the lessons and keep it moving. But I don’t harbor hate um nor animosity towards this person. I’m distancing myself for my own growth and for the prosperity of both of us, whether it’s family, whether it’s a friend, whether it’s romance. So it’s moving forward, I think because just like the idea of growing and and trying to look at this process of like grieving someone with more grace and compassion in a way that, like, preserves your mental health. It may take longer than the idea of moving on, but moving on is just like, you know, your typical breakup song. Like–


Yasmine Hamady: Like you get a rebound. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Leave, get out, like fuck em. Yeah.


Yasmine Hamady: You like oh like you’re for the streets again. Where it’s like, yes, we’ve all done that. Or at least I have like I’m like, well, all right, I’m done. I’m broken up with this person or like I’m going to go and it’s time. It’s it’s ho time, baby. Or like friendship wise. Like, I’m just going to post with all my other friends. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah, I think there’s a lot of–


Yasmine Hamady: You know? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –Like, ego there, you know what I mean? 


Yasmine Hamady: It is. I think moving on, you have ego-ers moving forward, you acknowledge it, but you keep going. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah, it’s a it’s a little bit more reflective and introspective. How do you feel, Josie, in regards to like the differences or or do you disagree? 


Josie Totah: When you’re ending a relationship with someone like there’s going to be feelings of everything. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mm hmm. 


Josie Totah: And you kind of have to, like, grieve that person. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mm. 


Josie Totah: But I agree. I think, like, I think a part of it is embracing the ego of it and then realizing, like, oh, wow, I was being so negative and like, fuck this person, fuck that. And was so angry and like we’re like, it’s like you have to realize where the anger comes from by having the anger. 


Yasmine Hamady: I agree with you. 


Josie Totah: You know what I mean? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: 100%. 


Josie Totah: So it’s not just like having someone do something to you or leave you and then you’re, I don’t know. I don’t know if that makes sense. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No I–


Yasmine Hamady: No, I actually think that’s perfect. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I completely agree with you. I think moving forward is not invalidating like your own feelings, whereas like moving on, which I think I habitually have done, where I’m like, all right, cool, let’s dead it. We don’t got to talk about it. Like I’m moving on, it’s cool it’s not that serious. Whereas, like, moving forward is like, okay, let me knowledge how I really feel and let me live in this, even if it’s uncomfortable and let me acknowledge that this person most of the time isn’t innately a bad person, and I’m not a bad person. We’re just on different paths right now and– 


Yasmine Hamady: 100%. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –it’s okay for us to take a step back or it’s okay just because a person has had this place in your life, it doesn’t mean that–


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –they’re going to hold that status for your entire life. I think Josie and I, we talk about it in depth all the time, like history doesn’t equate to someone’s value in your life. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: You know what I mean? Um.


Yasmine Hamady: And that’s for family, uh lovers and friends. And I think also going back to what Josie said, I think it’s naive and I think it’s I think it’s a fucking lie to say you’re not going to be angry when something happens, when like a partner breaks up with you or a partner hurts you or a friend wrongs you.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: [?] forget either. 


Yasmine Hamady: And no, and I don’t think you have to forget. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: I’m sorry, but you have to like I agree with you. You have to harvest that anger. And that’s a part of grieving. Um. Rachel Cusk’s memoir called Aftermath. She says grief is not love, but it is like love. This is romance’s astranged cousin, a cruel character, all sleeplessness and adrenaline, unsweetened by hope. Like, for example, [sigh] I’ll be honest, I I remember my first heartbreak, and this was like my first love. And I was 17, and we broke up. And this is when I lost control of the relationship because I was a very, you know, I craved control. And I remember when we broke up and he got a new girlfriend, I was broken. I wouldn’t wish heartbreak on my worst fucking enemy. I was in pain. I was throwing up. I was. I couldn’t eat. I was waking up smelling his cologne. I would dream about him for nights on end. And they did a study and they found out that the parts of your brain that’s lit up during heartbreak are the same parts of um cravings, which is the same part that gets light up during a cocaine addiction and physical pain as well. So you are physically inept during heartbreak because you are in pain. And I think that’s important to acknowledge that when you are going through something, to give yourself grace because this is a horrific feeling. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mm hmm. 


Yasmine Hamady: And I think I’m going to keep going. Like obviously something re– like even just this year I’ve had a couple heartbreaks, as you both know. You know, I remember like I was crying at an IKEA, like throwing up at an IKEA randomly because out of Pinkberry boy like what? But during that time, I was like, this is everything to me. And it’s because we fana– Josie’s laughing right now. But we, we fant– 


Josie Totah: I’m sorry. I just I just pictured it. I just pictured like what aisle like, are you in the bedroom section? 


Yasmine Hamady: We’re not in the bedroom. We’re in the kitchen. Kitchen section, actually. 


Josie Totah: Of course. Did you do it in the sink? 


Yasmine Hamady: No, I didn’t. I didn’t do it on the sink, but um so I had to clean up. The clean up on aisle five. Ding, ding. But I was talking. 


Josie Totah: It’s always five. Sorry.


Yasmine Hamady: It’s always five. I was talking to my therapist and I and I don’t know if you can really relate to this, you two and our listeners. I fantasize a lot. I build worlds. I put people on pedestals when they haven’t even proved that they’re worthy of being on this pedestal and they haven’t even shown up on this pedestal. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mm hmm. 


Yasmine Hamady: Maybe one day they could get there. But it doesn’t really matter because they’re not doing it today. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: And I think if we keep living in this, well, maybe one day well, honestly, this situation could happen here. We forget what’s right in front of us and it’s harder to get over someone and it’s harder to move forward. So I think one big way to move forward, specifically with lovers is look around you. Are they here? Are they showing up today? What the what did they do last week that really hurt you? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: Are they picking up and leaving you when it’s better for them? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Well, I feel like we’ve talked about this on the show before. I think it’s so important that, like, love is special and, like, you deserve it. Like, you you have to feel–


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –worthy of it. 


Yasmine Hamady: You have to. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um. But to do so, you have to love yourself first. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mmm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And and and it’s okay, like on your journey to realize like, you know what, this person is an amazing person, but–


Yasmine Hamady: Sure. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –they don’t know how to love me or they’re not loving me in the way that I want to be loved. And–


Yasmine Hamady: And deserve to be loved. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. And I think when you get to that point where you feel like you’re questioning parts of yourself or you’re finding someone, is making you question parts of who you are or dilute yourself. Then you know that it’s it’s time to go. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mm hmm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: You know that it’s like, you know what let’s move forward in our own separate directions. But you know.


Yasmine Hamady: But I have a question for you. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I was going to, okay. What are you–


Yasmine Hamady: I’m so sorry, but what if they left you? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Hmm. 


Yasmine Hamady: And you didn’t even have the say in what happens next? Does that make sense? Cause I feel like it’s different if you have to acknowledge that, like, we have to part ways. But what if they leave you? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I think that’s a good question. I think knowing I wish that there was like a more profound way to say this. But the truth of the matter is, you got to know that you’re good without anybody. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: That your happiness and, like, your self-worth isn’t equated in somebody else, so that when somebody comes in or decides to leave, that your happiness isn’t tethered to that person. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mmm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: So, like, as much as I love an individual, like, I was good before them, I’ll be good after them. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But there has to be a balance too, because you also have to open yourself up to love, which I think I’m currently trying to do better at. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Opening up myself to be love, opening myself up to have the possibility of growing with someone. Um. But knowing like, you know what? If a person walks out of my life like they didn’t need to be there, like they were just– 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –not a part of my story. And if someone doesn’t see the beauty in me just for who I am, then you know, I don’t want someone to half ass love me. Whether it’s a friend, whether it’s a lover– 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –whether it’s a family member. And, you know, I’ll speak for myself. Personally in my life, I feel like my friendship break ups have hurt the most. 


Yasmine Hamady: Ah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um. Maybe because I just have, like, no faith in men innately. Um. And I just. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I naturally just assume that they’re going to do the worst thing ever. Um. But for me, friend relationships were like, I had a really deep, beautiful relationship with a woman, and I was like, this is my sister. Like, this is my girl. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes, yes, yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And then they hurt me. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mmm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: That. Those were like– 


Yasmine Hamady: Heartbreak. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –break ups. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And I don’t think that we talk about that enough. How have you guys realized that you needed to leave a friendship and how did you go about doing so? 


Josie Totah: Well, for me, I don’t think I have had a friend end something like with me. Um. In the past, like, like six years, like I’ve had friends that like I feel like kind of iced me out. Like I remember freshman year of college, I became friends with um people that like, I just don’t think it was like a two sided friendship. And like my friends would tell me, my friend, my real friends, like, um would tell me, like all the time or that the two and the people that I had, the few people that I had um would be like, they don’t deserve you. Like you would tell me Yas. And like–


Yasmine Hamady: Oh, I literally have told it to you so many times. 


Josie Totah: Yeah. Like like they don’t deserve you. Like, why are you even hitting them up? Like. Like that kind of stuff. Um. And honestly, none of that kind of hurt. It was just kind of confusing because, like, I maybe in college, like, everyone’s trying to find themselves, to like when you’re trying to develop a friendship with someone and then they suddenly are like icing you out. Like, yeah, I’ve experienced that before um with people when I was younger, definitely. I had a lot of like behavioral issues and people were fully like I were formally like when I was a child, like people, like families would like, send us a letter of resignation like– 


Yasmine Hamady: I can’t. 


Josie Totah: We resign from–


Yasmine Hamady: Not a resignation letter–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: What? 


Yasmine Hamady: –to your mom and dad. 


Josie Totah: –from being in your family’s life. 


Yasmine Hamady: Please. 


Josie Totah: Um. Please do not come near us. Um. But, you know, I’ve healed. I think what’s hardest for me is the friendships that I’ve had to that I’ve had to end, that have ended because of my own um choice. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: And the way that I see friendships and like romantic relationships different is with romantic relationships, I it doesn’t really like I don’t really get sad about it at first because I don’t even think of romantic relationships as being like a real thing. Like– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: I don’t even believe in its existence. So [laugh] in order for me to, like, get sad about it, I have to realize the possibility of what it could have been or what it was. And then I have to mourn that I don’t because at first I’m like, oh, yeah, well, that was nothing. Because I was convincing myself it was nothing all the time, which I am working on and I’m in therapy for. 


Yasmine Hamady: Oh. Yeah. 


Josie Totah: And– 


Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 


Josie Totah: –It’s something that I’m gonna change. And so it’s easier for me to be like, oh fuck them. With– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: –friendships. Because of the fact that I faced so much rejection as a child and I received all those resignation letters. I’m really not the person that has the energy of like, oh, fuck that person, fuck that. It doesn’t come out of me. I actually don’t get angry when it comes to ending a friendship with someone who’s hurt me. And I don’t know why. Because you’d think that I’d be the perfect person to tell someone off. But honestly, all that comes out of me is just compassion, because I know what it’s like to be rejected. But I think sometimes that hurts me because I’m not creating enough boundaries for myself and I’m bending over backwards for someone who doesn’t know how to be there for me in the way that I deserve. And and so then the kind of angry stage comes like months later when I’m like, oh, shit, was I really like, I was giving the girl who caught her boyfriend cheating and was like, it’s okay and babe, like, we can work it out. Like–


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah yeah yeah. 


Josie Totah: –I know this isn’t you like, like that’s kind of what I give sometimes. And so I have to remind myself and my friends remind me um you guys um like my worth and that I don’t need to do all that stuff and that, you know, I’m just because people weren’t those friends to me doesn’t mean that I have to be mean to this person, but it– 


Yasmine Hamady: Correct. 


Josie Totah: –doesn’t mean that I have to go over the top and be– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. I–


Yasmine Hamady: 100%. 


Josie Totah: –that person’s savior when maybe the lesson they’re learning is not having me. 


Yasmine Hamady: I I completely agree with that. I think– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: –I kind of look at it and this is with friendships, relationships, um lovers. I kind of see our whole life as a boo. Like there’s a massive, massive book and each chapter is a different point in your life. So example for a lover I had, they were chapter seven through nine. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: Right. But it’s chapter 11 right now. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: They’re not in my life, but chapter ten. I was [?] that time, but also chapter ten, I had a great friend. But then fast forward, it’s chapter 16 and that friend wasn’t there, isn’t there here isn’t here right now, but they served a purpose during that time and I’m grateful. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: And I think important is bowing out gracefully when it’s time. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Exactly like people are in your life for long reasons or seasons and even–


Yasmine Hamady: Love that. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Even the people in my life that have radically hurt me and I agree– 


Josie Totah: Is there the lifetime option? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah, like for long reasons. You’re my life. You guys are my lifetime. 


Yasmine Hamady: You’re my. You’re my– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: You guys are lifetimes. 


Yasmine Hamady: –long reasons. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But– 


Josie Totah: Oh I thought it was for, like, a tiny reason. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No, no, no. For long. For long reasons or or seasons. And um I like very much relate to Josie. The hardest relationships that have felt like the largest heartbreak for me um is when I have to leave, like a friendship. 


Yasmine Hamady: Oh yeah shit.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Because it’s like, oh, we have we have so much history. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like, this person I know is a good person, but they just don’t serve me. They make me question our friendship. They make me question– 


Yasmine Hamady: Hate. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –our worth um and they continuously hurt me. And it’s like I’ve had to learn the hard lesson that it’s not my job to raise you and it’s not my job to force you to drink–


Yasmine Hamady: You are not their mother. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: It’s not my it’s not my job to force– 


Josie Totah: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –the horse to drink water. It’s like you can leave the horse to water, but you can’t make them drink it. And I’ve been that girl sitting there, like, with a tub. Like, please! Like don’t like, don’t do that again. 


Yasmine Hamady: Don’t do it, put like an IV– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Don’t. 


Yasmine Hamady: –Drip in her. Like pretty please ugh. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like girl. Like, I love you so much. Why are you lying behind my back? Or why are you like–


Josie Totah: Why are you fucking lying? [all singing the word lying]


[singing together] Why are you always lying? Oh, my God. Stop fucking lying.


Yasmine Hamady: But no for real. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Anyways. But no, seriously. Like– [laughter] the the cut. The cut to like that, is where it’s radically hurt. Where it’s like I’ve told you that you have crossed this line with me. I’ve told you how this makes me feel unseen um and disrespected. And you keep doing it. It’s like, why? Why do you keep putting me in that position? And then it’s like, you know what? I have to bow gracefully and I have to preserve my peace and also know my self-worth. But as much as certain situations with individuals have hurt, whether it be romantic, mainly, I think friendship and familial for me. No matter how much it hurt, I’m a new person leaving it because I have a new perspective. I’ve gained a new lesson. 


Yasmine Hamady: Correct. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: There’s now–


Yasmine Hamady: But that’s moving forward. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes. Now there’s a line that you won’t that I won’t ever allow someone to cross again because I’ve lived through that pain. You know what I mean? 


Josie Totah: Wait. 


Yasmine Hamady: Say it. Say it. 


Josie Totah: My therapist um shout out [?] I don’t know if I can say her name.


Yasmine Hamady: No you can’t say her name. 


Josie Totah: Oh okay, shout out her. Um. She literally told me a sentiment that goes exactly what you’re where you’re, I’m yes and-ing right now. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes and. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes and. 


Yasmine Hamady: Improv. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Improv. 


Yasmine Hamady: Improv. 


Josie Totah: My therapist was saying um, she said. You need to know the difference between acquaintances and friends. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes. 


Josie Totah: And she said. She said to me, I think you have a misconception of the word acquaintance. And I said, no, I don’t. And she said, well than what is it? And I said, Well, an acquaintance is someone that you don’t really talk to you that, you know, you see once in a while that you could, you know, you like them as a human being, but you don’t hang out with them. You don’t, they don’t tell you anything. And she’s like, no, that’s not true. An acquaintance is someone who you can hang out with, who you can talk to who they can tell you their problems. They don’t know everything about you. They might not know, you know, what happened in your life six years ago that was traumatic and brought you to the person you are now. But they’re still a person that you can kick it with and hang out with. But your friends, friendships are built off of years of trials and tribulations. 


Yasmine Hamady: Ah. 


Josie Totah: And and a friendship is tested based off of those. And without that time, without those experiences, a healthy friendship cannot be built. And so she kind of gave me this, like, description of these two buckets. And there’s like a friendship bucket, and an acquaintance bucket. And your acquaintance bucket is how I described and your friendship bucket is, you know, like us, like the three of us. You know–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: What we have. Obviously, we’re more familial. But. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: It’s like the people that knew everything about you, the people that love you, and the people that understand you, and the people that know you. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mmm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And through the ups and downs–


Josie Totah: And when you put–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –with you.


Josie Totah: –when you put someone. Yes. When you put someone in the friend bucket too early and maybe you do this with boys, Yasmine or with friends? Who knows? Um. When you put– 


Yasmine Hamady: No. 


Josie Totah: –Someone in the friend– 


Yasmine Hamady: I hear you. 


Josie Totah: –bucket too early and they haven’t earned the right to be there. That’s not only when they let you down, but you let yourself down. 


Yasmine Hamady: I I couldn’t have said it better. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: I think that was–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: That’s really beautiful. I think and it puts you in an unsafe position. And I’m learning more and more I put myself in such unsafe positions emotionally. 


Josie Totah: Yeah cause you do not have an acquaintance bucket, and I didn’t until like two weeks ago. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I do have an acquaintance bucket. 


Yasmine Hamady: And I, I– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Take it back.


Josie Totah: Just because you have known that person for a long time does not reserve– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: [fist bang] [?]


Josie Totah: –them the right to maintain their place in your life. Just because– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I– 


Josie Totah: –that person was a good person to you or was, you know, like I was telling my therapist about sometimes I tell my therapist about people and I’m like, oh yeah, well they did this this and that for me. And she literally looked at me and was like, so that’s like what a good human would do. That’s like a–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: Bare minimum. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Bare minimum.


Josie Totah: –normal thing for a human to do.


Yasmine Hamady: It’s a bare minimum. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Bare minimum. 


Yasmine Hamady: Bare minimum.


Josie Totah: And it’s like, don’t, don’t sell yourself short. Just for the bare minimum, not every opportunity is meant to be taken, and not every friendship is meant to be continued. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Amen. Hallelujah. Thank you, Jesus. [music break]


Josie Totah: Hi. Bienvenido. Ni hao. Um. Gesundheit. Welcome back to [laughter] the Ickuation room. Today’s topic is New Year’s Eve. As we all know, there can only be one Ick and Yum. Let’s board. [laughter] Today’s topic, New Year’s Eve. Ick you go first. [gavel sound]


Yasmine Hamady: December 31st. January 1st. Tomato. Tomato. Who gives a fook. Quite frankly, it’s like any other day. If we put pressure all in just one day. Chances are you’re not going to stop texting your ex boyfriend. You’re not going to um save all your money and stop spending on your Amex. You’re not going to do all of these things. If you make up scenarios in your head of things you’re going to do starting on January 1st, you’re not going to do it. If you put so much pressure on one date that is so pathetic. Every day should be New Year’s Eve. Every day should be a New Year’s Day because every day is a new day bitch, not January fucking first. And also who really created the calendar. Time is not linear. Time doesn’t even exist. Nothing exists. You’re fake. You’re fake. I’m a hologram. Nothing’s real. I’m having a panic attack. 


Josie Totah: Thank you Ick. Yum. Take it away. [gavel sound]


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Listen, I get it. Time is a construct. Things aren’t real. But tell me why you don’t want a reason to start anew. All of us need new energy breathed into our damn meaningless lives– 


Yasmine Hamady: Uh. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –and to have something to live for. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: So if it is New Year’s Day, it is New Year’s Day. I want a reason to buy new gym clothes and go to the gym. Am I going to keep going after three months? Maybe not. Maybe I’ll ghost my trainer. I’m sorry Nate. I love you. Anyways. We all need a reason to party, to get together–


Josie Totah: Five seconds. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –To have a good time together. And I think–


Josie Totah: 30 seconds. 30 seconds.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –New Years is perfect to start new things, be a better person. 


Yasmine Hamady: Um you actually were five seconds–


Josie Totah: [indistinct] five seconds over.


Yasmine Hamady: Yes. 


Josie Totah: Which is a disrespect to the court. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I feel like you definitely went over time. 


Yasmine Hamady: I didn’t actually. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Nobody nobody was timing– 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes. Our producers were– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –Yas. 


Yasmine Hamady: –actually. 


Josie Totah: Okay. Um. So–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Fake news whatever. 


Josie Totah: Thank you both for uh both of your proceedings. This is an incredible meeting today. I’m really appreciative. I will have to say I hate New Year’s Eve. I think the year starts when it’s my birthday because the world revolves around me. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes. Leo. [banter]


Josie Totah: But I also recognize that we do have some neighbors here and I honestly love Alycia’s take on it specifically the fact that energy could be breathed into me, which sounds very enticing and something that I would love to have happen to me on the 31st of December. So I’m going to have to say Yum wins. [timpany roll]


Yasmine Hamady: What! 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yay! 


Josie Totah: Thank you. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Start anew! 


Yasmine Hamady: Josie! 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes, yes yes yes. [banter]


Josie Totah: This was the Ickuation Room. Let’s start anew. 


Yasmine Hamady: [indistinct] actually think about it. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No. 


Yasmine Hamady: You guys. What the fuck.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Start anew. It’s. There’s something so beautiful, no and also [indistinct]


Yasmine Hamady: There’s something so gorgeous about beauty in the world as construct. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Are you talking over me? Shut up. Quiete. I won. Listen. I think there’s something so beautiful that even if it’s, like, arbitrary and ridiculous, that the whole world gets together and goes, we’re starting anew, we’re stepping into something together, even if it isn’t for very long. I’m not for the fads, I’m not for the ridiculous things that don’t last a long time. [record scratch]


Josie Totah: I’m not for the fags. I’m not for the–


Yasmine Hamady: Uh Alycia just said the F slur. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No I didn’t. That! You do not cancel me. F-A-D-S. Fads. Trends.


Yasmine Hamady: Did you just say G or D? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I’m ov– I’m goodbye. 


Yasmine Hamady: And that was our episode. Thank you for listening. [music break] So I actually was already starting the end of a conversation. I was going to begin a monologue and then our producer said, just wrap it up– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Shut the fuck up. 


Yasmine Hamady: –Yasmine. So here I am, wrapping it up Caroline. Um. 


Josie Totah: Thank you guys for listening. Choose your circle wisely, but protect your peace first and foremost. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Bonjour.


Yasmine Hamady: Great. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Is that goodbye? 


Yasmine Hamady: Bye guys. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Is that goodbye? 


Yasmine Hamady: That’s hello. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Adios. [laughter] 


Yasmine Hamady: Bye! 


Josie Totah: Bye! 


Yasmine Hamady: That was funny. [music break]


Josie Totah: Dare We Say is a Crooked Media production. 


Yasmine Hamady: Caroline Reston is our showrunner, producer and mommy, and Ari Schwartz is our producer and show daddy. Fiona Pestana is our associate producer and Sandy Girard is the Almighty Executive Producer. 


Josie Totah: It’s hosted and produced by me, Josie Totah. 


Yasmine Hamady: And me Yasmine Hamady. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And me, Alycia Pascual-Peña. Our engineer and editor is Jordan Cantor and Brian Vasquez is our theme music composer. Our video producers are Matt DeGroot, Narineh Melkonian, and Delon Villanueva and Mia Kellman. 


Josie Totah: Lastly, thank you to Jordan Silver, Gabriela Leverette, Jesse McLean, Caroline Heywood, Shaina Hortsmann, Deisi Cruz, Danielle Jensen, and Ewa Okulate for marketing the show and making us look so damn good.