How to Give & Receive (Love) | Crooked Media
September 08, 2022
Dare We Say
How to Give & Receive (Love)

In This Episode

We are worrying darling! The Hunger Games is here and it’s taken shape in the form of The Venice Film Festival, and queen Florence Pugh is our victor! Also sort of Chris Pine too?? In the spirit of chaos, Josie, Alycia and Yasmine get vulnerable and dig into how they give and receive…love and the challenges of opening up. Plus! Josie debuts a brand new segment: Fashion Church.




Josie Totah: Hi. I’m Josie. 


Yasmine Hamady: Hi, I’m Yasmine.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Hi, I’m Alycia Pascual-Peña. And this is, Dare We Say. 


Josie Totah: The Venice Film Festival is literally my Hunger Games. It is my Super Bowl. And I mean that not because I love films, but because I love people who are fighting and but not just like fighting fighting. It’s like the subliminal fighting. It’s the awkwardness. It’s the weirdness. It’s the fact that every single one of the cast members of Don’t Worry Darling, have beef with each other. And the energy is palpable. 


Yasmine Hamady: It’s literally I’ve never paid such close attention to the news since January 6th. Like I have been constantly like on my phone, like, did Florence enter yet? Did Miss Flo enter yet? And also, I just have to say I was stalking everyone’s stylist because usually they’re the ones who are like posting shit. Florence Pugh’s stylist posted a photo of Florence and the caption was Miss Flo. And if you don’t know what that’s from, that’s when Olivia Wilde came out how she, there was a video of her leaked, that she sent to Shia LaBeouf referencing Florence Pugh as Miss Flo and like a very like there’s shade there. 


Josie Totah: Condescending way. 


Yasmine Hamady: Ok. Condescending. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Okay. Yeah didn’t she say like if Miss Flo can get it together or decide to work with you, wait what’s happening at this film festival? I’ll be honest, I don’t know what’s happening at the film festival. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: At all. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. So so. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I knew what was happening prior. I saw the leaked video. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I read the Shia letter. 


Yasmine Hamady: So. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I’m caught up there. 


Yasmine Hamady: They’re premiering Don’t Worry Darling, which is Olivia Wilde’s movie. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes. 


Yasmine Hamady: With her lover Harry Styles. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: With Harry. I’m aware. And they weren’t dating prior, which I didn’t know. 


Yasmine Hamady: Correct. She was married to Jason Sudeikis. All right, Josie. 


Josie Totah: Um, no she wasn’t. 


Yasmine Hamady: Okay my fact checker. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But they just weren’t dating at that point. 


Yasmine Hamady: Correct. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Okay. 


Josie Totah: They weren’t dating. They started dating during the movie. Basically, Shia LaBeouf was originally cast in the role. He walked out, left the role. Olivia Wilde said that he she fired him. He has proven receipts that she didn’t fire him, that he quit. Flash forward to, we have this movie premiering at Venice Film Festival. Olivia Wilde has said out um spokenly. Has said that her and Florence Pugh have no drama, although Florence Pugh has not promoted the film at all. She’s not done any press for it. 


Yasmine Hamady: Nope. 


Josie Totah: She’s not mentioned it except for going to this premiere. And at the premiere. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: She usually does. 


Josie Totah: At the premiere. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 


Josie Totah: The seating chart for this premiere, which makes it even more chaotic is. We all expected Florence Pugh to not interact with Olivia Wilde at this premiere We expected that because we heard rumors of the drama. We also expected Florence Pugh to possibly not interact with Harry and Florence not to interact with Olivia. But what we did not expect was Harry and Olivia to not acknowledge each other at all. They didn’t acknowledge each other once on the carpet. They didn’t even sit next to each other at the premiere. And in fact the seating chart– 


Yasmine Hamady: –Oh it was so hard to look at. 


Josie Totah: The standing order on the carpet and the seating chart at the premiere. They um reflected the same pattern. On the carpet was Olivia Wilde, an actress. I’m probably going to get roasted for not knowing her name and then Harry Styles. And then next to Harry Styles was, who was it? 


Yasmine Hamady: Gemma Chan? 


Josie Totah: Maybe anyway. And then it was like um Chris Pine and then Nick Kroll and then Florence Pugh or something, but like none of them were sitting next to each other. Like Olivia did not sit next to Harry. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: That’s insane. 


Josie Totah: At the premiere at all. And also there is beef between every single one of these people and the most insane. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I feel like I’m at a rap cypher. And she’s–


Yasmine Hamady: It’s insane no it’s [?]. 


Josie Totah: The most explosive part of this whole thing came out of a meme going around where people are speculating that Harry Styles spit in Chris Pine’s lap. 


Yasmine Hamady: Which I don’t think happened. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Wait, what? 


Yasmine Hamady: I’m sorry. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Wait, wait. what? 


Yasmine Hamady: But I just want also want to take a backtrack at that during the press conference, Chris Pine, the whole time he’s like this. [doing an inaudible impersonation]


Josie Totah: Oh my God, Harry was like, oh oh oh what I love most about the movie. [banter in British accents]


Yasmine Hamady: [?] Is that it actually felt like you were in a movie like [banter in British accents]


Josie Totah: It’s the kind of movie that like makes you want to go to movies, you know. Like it’s a real–


Yasmine Hamady: I was like Harry. 


Josie Totah: He couldn’t explain. 


Yasmine Hamady: You’re so pretty, stop talking. Stop talking.


Josie Totah: Oh, my God. He literally could not explain how why he liked the film, because he probably doesn’t. And Chris Pine– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Ai yi yi. 


Josie Totah: –was literally dying inside while Harry Styles was talking. But the experience in question is when they were sitting next to or when Chris Pine was sitting down and he was like zoning out a little bit and he, and Harry Styles comes in and Harry Styles appears to spit at Chris Pine, and there’s video footage of the spit. And um Chris Pine looks down at his lap and freezes, and then Harry like smirks at him. And so there’s two sides to this video, and one of the sides says that he’s spitting on him. And another side says that he’s not. 


Yasmine Hamady: I don’t think he did because I don’t think Harry’s an idiot. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I feel like that’s a little insane. 


Yasmine Hamady: I don’t think. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I don’t think that that was a theory. 


Yasmine Hamady: Also, I feel like I feel like he might have done it on accident. And Chris, Chris Pine is just a very animated person. You know what he’s thinking at all times because he’s like. [doing an inaudible impression]


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like I did love seeing him on the carpet. I did see those pictures. I don’t know all the details.


Yasmine Hamady: His lucious hair, Chris Pine. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But I love seeing him on the carpet, taking pictures of uh Florence. I thought that that was really endearing and sweet.


Yasmine Hamady: Also the class, the fucking class that Florence Pugh holds. 


Josie Totah: Oh my god the class. 


Yasmine Hamady: I would be a petty bitch, the class that she comes in. [?]


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I love her. 


Josie Totah: I wouldn’t have even shown up. 


Yasmine Hamady: No, I would have. The thing that she was so graceful and kind and there was a smile on her face. And she’s still filming Dune in Budapest right now. Like she. 


Josie Totah: She is. 


Yasmine Hamady: She she left, she came and she was so kind and respectful. And I also feel like Nick Kroll was a very comforting person. 


Josie Totah: Yes. 


Yasmine Hamady: For her to be around. 


Josie Totah: Nick Kroll gave peacemaker and Nick Kroll gave– 


Yasmine Hamady: Nick Kroll gave–


Josie Totah: –Switzerland. 


Yasmine Hamady: –peacemaker. 


Josie Totah: He was so– 


Yasmine Hamady: Even though Switzerland wasn’t at all a peacemaker, but. 


Josie Totah: You know what, he was iconic. And. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Hey. 


Josie Totah: Also, I just um–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Go on. 


Josie Totah: I love Chris [?]. Do you want to know something um even weirder was that after the movie premiered. I think this was like when the film ended and everyone was applauding it. Harry Styles grabbed Nick Kroll’s face and kissed him on the lips. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah, wait wait. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: What? 


Yasmine Hamady: He was pulling a Bad Bunny. He’s like, no more. No more queerbaiting. I’m done queerbaiting. Just so everyone knows. I might not be Bad Bunny, but I am going to kiss a man. And I think– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Wait what? 


Yasmine Hamady: I think Nick Kroll was just down for the shits, but I was like. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I am confused, though, that, like, Olivia and Harry didn’t interact after these– 


Yasmine Hamady: I think they didn’t want to. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –like magazines came out. [banter]. 


Yasmine Hamady: I don’t think Harry did. I don’t think Harry did. 


Josie Totah: Well rumour has it. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Do you think they’re still dating, though? Because. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes they are. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: What what was it? Rolling Stone and Vanity Fair? 


Josie Totah: I think it’s explosive. I think I don’t think Harry knew the real situation with Flo Po and Shia. I don’t think he knew the tea. And I think when he saw that Shia got the evidence, I think that was a big thing for him. 


Yasmine Hamady: Oh, you’re so right. 


Josie Totah: Apparently everybody in the film is like kind of trash. And the writing serves no one in the film except Flo Po. And of course. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Flo. 


Josie Totah: She’s like the best part ever. Anyway. But this really this drama says a lot for award season because the only way to like this type of film, um for it to make it that far or for it to for them to be recognized which someone like Florence could be is you have to love the film and you have to be able to stand up and, you know, be proud of it. And none of these people are it seems like none of them are happy about it. So I don’t think it has any chance of getting any real recognition for that reason. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I wonder if Flo actually enjoyed like her character and the movie itself, but then hasn’t been able to enjoy any of the work that she put into it because of the debauchery that happened. 


Yasmine Hamady: Sure. But. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Cause that woman is just so talented. 


Yasmine Hamady: Right. But I there was a TikTok coming out of like a PA on set talking like a year ago during filming. How like Florence Pugh, she directed some of the scenes because Olivia Wilde wasn’t doing her job. That’s what I heard. And Florence Pugh had to pick up so many of the pieces. And when you’re filming a movie with such. Intensity. And it’s and it’s supposed to be this feminist piece. And I put out quotations. That’s that’s a heavy weight to carry on your shoulders. And also with everything happening with a director that’s not being supportive, not making the environment comfortable whatsoever. That’s hard to be suppor– Like you can’t do that. 


Josie Totah: The thing is. All publicity is good publicity. Harry stans are still going to see this film. And you know what? I am too so. 


Yasmine Hamady: I am too. [banter] 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I’m going to watch this film. 


Yasmine Hamady: I’m excited.


Josie Totah: But let’s get into the topic of today. So it’s funny because when I like I don’t know how this the episode topic came up today, but it’s wild because I had a dream last night. 


Yasmine Hamady: The infamous dream. 


Josie Totah: That corre– corresponds to what we’re talking about today. And it was a really weird dream. It was one of those dreams, like a weird thing happened in the dream. But I googled that really weird thing and the shit that I found on the internet about my dream and how insanely like um parallel it is to my experience and like what I’m living. But also like this episode is wild and I just had to share it with you guys. This is not a joke. You guys tell the audience you’ve never heard this dream. 


Yasmine Hamady: No, no.. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I’m at the edge of my seat. You told us you had a wild dream. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah, she said, I have a wild dream. And I said, okay, tell us. You said, No, I’m not. I’m waiting until we record– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Record. 


Yasmine Hamady: –To tell you. Wait, Josie, what is it? 


Josie Totah: Okay, so in my dream, I was asleep and I got a text from my manager. Priya, shout out Priya. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Love Priya. 


Josie Totah: In my dream, I sent her a photo of my living room. Okay. 


Yasmine Hamady: Okay. 


Josie Totah: And she said in the corner of the picture. I can see that you left the gas on. 


Yasmine Hamady: Nope. Nope, nope. 


Josie Totah: And there’s, like, all the burners are on. And so in my dream, I woke up still in a dream. Looked and saw that all the burners were on the stove, like on. 


Yasmine Hamady: Okay. 


Josie Totah: Then I woke up in real life and saw that she was texting me about something completely different, but I was like, that’s a really weird dream to have. Um but also what a coincidence that she texted me. But that wasn’t even the weirdest thing that happened, because I feel like a lot of people have dreams of people texting them. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: Cause they like maybe subconsciously see it or whatever. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: So I disregarded that, but I was like, that dream was weird, right? So I looked it up online and I started reading article after article of what does it mean when you dream about like a stove being on, like burners being on? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh, my god. 


Josie Totah: And let me read you what one of the articles said. 


Yasmine Hamady: Okay. 


Josie Totah: And you can look this up and it– 


Yasmine Hamady: No I believe in you. 


Josie Totah: It’s all about that kind of stuff. 


Yasmine Hamady: I believe you. 


Josie Totah: Okay, ready? 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mm hmm.


Josie Totah: You are afraid of losing your companion and ending up alone, being very proud and haughty. Hop hodie haughty? You would find it very challenging to acknowledge this situation. If you are single, dreaming about leaving the stove on means that you lack self esteem when it concerns seduction, you don’t dare to take the first step. Dreaming about leaving the stove on proves that you are afraid of rejection. You prefer to play indifferent and take control of the situation. Yet your magnificence is no more to be established. 


Yasmine Hamady: Josie. 


Josie Totah: Strict, strict, timid and sensible. You find it rough to let go. You may miss out on a fantastic encounter if you remain and reject. 


Yasmine Hamady: Wait. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um. 


Josie Totah: How– 


Yasmine Hamady: No, no, no, no, no, no. I just want–


Josie Totah: –insane is that.  


Yasmine Hamady: The one part where I swear to God, Josie, you were reading I don’t know if you looked. Alycia and I looked at each other, jaws dropped because you said you crave control because of the lack of self-esteem, because you’re afraid to be alone. Josie. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Wait. I want to know. 


Yasmine Hamady: I have goose–. I swear to God, I have goose bumps. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: How does that correlate with burners being on in a dream? 


Yasmine Hamady: Because I think. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Okay. Wait, wait wait wait. Okay. This is, like, scarily, like, really specific. 


Yasmine Hamady: Also– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: How do you how do you feel about it Josie. No. Josie. How did you feel like reading that? What did it mean to you? 


Josie Totah: Well, okay, so then hold on. Then I also saw another article and this is just like one short paragraph of what it said. And it said leaving the stove on suggests your negative outlook, deteriorating thoughts and crumbling ideals. There’s a situation you’re trying to avoid or hide from. Your actions will result in an unpleasant outcome. 


Yasmine Hamady: Um. 


Josie Totah: The dream points at your caring, supportive and giving nature. You’re shutting others out and closing off your emotions. And my cast to me, like my two castmates, who are two of my closest friends here. And me and Aubri were saying that like because something did like something did happen like a few weeks ago that was like kind of a downer. And they kept asking me about it and I was like, I’m fine. I genuinely have been hurt about it, like whatever. And so when I saw that, I was like, Should I just start crying right now at four in the morning alone in my bedroom? And I was like, No, that’s kind of fucking cringy. But I was like, Honestly, that would be a funny story to tell. So then I found myself trying to make myself cry, which I later realized, which is even like cringier, that I was like alone. 


Yasmine Hamady: That. You just. 


Josie Totah: Trying to make myself.


Yasmine Hamady: I can imagine you at 4am– 


Josie Totah: Cry.


Yasmine Hamady: –at the edge of your fucking bed, just looking like this. 


Josie Totah: At 4am.


Yasmine Hamady: Pushing tears. 


Josie Totah: Which is, like, insane. But you know what’s crazy is that um randomly I got a text from Alison, like, while I was looking up stuff, and she was just saying, I love you, how are you? And so, like. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 


Josie Totah: She kind of knew. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 


Josie Totah: Um but anyway, so how do I feel about that? I feel like, wow, that’s crazy. That dreams are, as Sigmund Freud said, a representation of our unconscious fears and desires. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mm hmm. 


Josie Totah: And also like. Damn. That’s true. Like I do. I am afraid of all those things. Um. And also. The podcast came into my mind and how I was so excited that today we are going to meet and talk about how to give and receive. Love and prezzies. 


Yasmine Hamady: Give and receive. 


Josie Totah: Um. Because I think that dream ties into why that is really hard for me, and that’s been something that I’ve had to learn. Um. So with that being said, should we. Should we get into it and divulge that even more? 


Yasmine Hamady: Let’s. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Absolutely. 


Yasmine Hamady: Let’s dig into it. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I’m a little scared, but more prepared and hopeful. 


Yasmine Hamady: I’m honestly, I’ve been looking forward to this topic for a while since you pitched it Josie. A couple weeks back. I’ve been really looking forward to this topic. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. Thanks for sharing your dream. 


Yasmine Hamady: Thank you. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: That’s like insane, not a picture of the burner’s still on. [banter]


Josie Totah: I know that’s crazy.


Yasmine Hamady: I also feel like that’s very vivid. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Also, can I just say. 


Josie Totah: Well also. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Josie’s amazing because you were like immediately, what deeper thought does that have? I would just be like, Oh, I need to check my burner. [music break]


Josie Totah: That’s also something that I’ve been trying to work on. So with that being said, let’s get into and divulge that even more. And also, we’re going to be doing an episode of Fashion Church today, which is a very iconic episode where I talk shit about the way people look uh paparazzi photos and what they’re wearing. Um. So yeah let’s just get into it. [music break]


Yasmine Hamady: Hey, don’t forget to follow us at @DareWeSay on Instagram and subscribe to our YouTube channel at We’ll be right back. 




Josie Totah: How are you guys feeling about this topic? 


Yasmine Hamady: This is. 


Josie Totah: Talking about love is hard for some people, but also easy for others. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: As in it may be easier for certain people. 


Yasmine Hamady: As in easier for me. Harder for Alycia. 


Josie Totah: Yeah. That’s what I was going to say. 


Yasmine Hamady: And then Josie’s right in the middle. There’s like such extremes. 


Josie Totah: I really am. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah, you’re right in the middle. And then– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yas and I, who are the ones in the studio, still in LA are those, like– 


Yasmine Hamady: Opposites. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –Strongest dichotomy of this topic. 


Yasmine Hamady: It’s. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I’ll be honest, like, I am timid to talk about love. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mmm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And man, if you know anything about me, your girl can talk. But there are some topics that I definitely have difficulty discussing, and one of them is love. Like, I don’t enjoy talking about love, but it’s also like very ironic because I always want to lead in love and I hope to like, embody love and bring joy and light into people’s life. When we talk about like my preferences when it comes to love or like my attachment style and things like that, I really, really struggle. Like I struggle to articulate what– 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –I need and what love means to me on a personal level. So I, you know, being candid to talk about this topic today definitely won’t be the easiest. But I think that’s why I need to lean into it. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mmm. 


Josie Totah: Like, how do you feel about love in general? I know it’s a broad question, Yasmine. Which one is easier for you guys giving or receiving? 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. I mean, I think when I think of love, I think I put it in two different um files in my brain. I have familial, platonic, and I have romantic. And how I give and receive is very different. For me, I’m a very physical person. Affection is huge for me. Physical affirmation. I don’t even need someone to tell me how much they mean, how much I mean to them. I need someone to just hold me. To just, like, touch my arm and say. Not even say anything, but just know that for me to know that you’re there for me. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: It’s like the reassurance. Validation. 


Yasmine Hamady: The reassurance. And it’s I think it’s because, like, growing up, like, I was sleeping next to my parents and siblings for a long, like, at like in a weird age. Like, literally even at this age when I’m at home, like sometimes when I’m having a shit night, I will cuddle up next to my parents. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: At 24 years old. And like, that’s not a weird thing, but I think it’s so prevalent of, of who I am and how I give and receive. But a lot of times people aren’t physical. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mm hmm. 


Yasmine Hamady: And then I’m like, do they not love me? Do they not do they not care for me? But every like Alycia is not a very she’s a touching person, but she doesn’t know how to for me sometimes show it. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: And then I’m like, Does she love me? But she gives love in a different way. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: Than I receive. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Well, I think that’s a testament. To just like us all needing like different forms of love. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And we prioritize different things. Like I think for you it’s definitely like words of affirmation and physical touch. 


Josie Totah: She just said not words of affirmation. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: What? 


Yasmine Hamady: Words of affirmation aren’t mine, it’s just physical touch. And like. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I would say like for you it’s both. 


Yasmine Hamady: Sure. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Because I’ll be honest, like living with you, I would have the reassurance or I would give you the reassurance of physically being with you from sunup to sundown. And then you would look me in the face and be like, I need you to tell me you love me. And I’m like, Girl, what? I’ve done everything with you. I’ve had every meal, I’ve done everything. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But that’s fine because you need different things. And it’s also like it’s a conversation. Sometimes someone loving you is beautiful, but it’s not enough because like, we all have different requirements.


Yasmine Hamady: It’s not enough. It’s not enough. Like, you need to love yourself in order to get and give love, period. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. For sure. 


Yasmine Hamady: So, Alycia how do you give and receive love? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um. Honestly, giving love, it comes natural to me. I think that that is just like. How I live my life. Like I want to serve people. I want to be a servant. I want to be a light. And I want to bring joy to people. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: So appeasing people is very easy for me, but I’ve learned that that’s not sustainable. Like you can’t give from an empty well. 


Yasmine Hamady: No. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And I’ve had to learn that you also can’t love people to the fullest if you don’t love yourself, if you don’t show up for yourself. And these are lessons that I’m still learning. And honestly, it’s a funny question, like, oh, how do I receive love? I think I’m still learning. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I think I think that– 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña:  –Also that’s a continuous journey throughout your entire life. I think different phases and seasons in your life require different things. But right now, um I think I receive love by like the time and the memories that I make with people which, like, I’ve had the beautiful blessing of doing with you Josie and doing with you Yas. Um. But receiving is still really hard for me, and I still am learning how to, like, articulate that. Like, there. It’s okay for me to have needs and– 


Josie Totah: Mm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. So I’m still very much on that journey. And honestly, I don’t know how I’m doing in regards to like receiving love, but I know that man, do I. I know how to live in love. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But that is honestly like not to be cliche. That is my goal in life. It’s to like leave everything that I come to better than I came to it. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And that is just like being the embodiment of love, whether I agree with someone or not, just trying to strive for that to be the foundation of everything. 


Yasmine Hamady: Okay Josie. 


Josie Totah: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: So. 


Josie Totah: So for me. Okay. In broad terms, when I see the sentence giving and receiving. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: For me, romantic love is something that I’ve always been very scared of. And I don’t think I realized how scared I was until I started playing in the game of enlisting– 


Yasmine Hamady: This game. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: –myself in the military that is the dating game that is love, because– [laughter]


Alycia Pascual-Peña: That is the Hunger Games. 


Josie Totah: I think for a lot–


Yasmine Hamady: It’s The Hunger Games. 


Josie Totah: It’s literally the Hunger Games here. I think for a lot of people, like giving is easier on surface, right? 


Yasmine Hamady: Sure. 


Josie Totah: When you’re giving, you are in control of it. You are in control of how much you’re giving and–  


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –you dictate how invested you are. 


Josie Totah: You dictate how. Yeah, exactly. You have control. You dictate how invested you are. And you also understand you reap the benefits of that all the time. Like there’s no chance of giving love that like you’re not reaping the benefits of unless it’s not being reciprocated. 


Yasmine Hamady: Sure. 


Josie Totah: Um. But then it has to do with receiving. Right? So I’m just talking about giving. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah yeah.


Josie Totah: You know, if unless you’re self-sabotaging or giving it to someone who doesn’t deserve it, giving is always going to be easier. 


Yasmine Hamady: Which is a common thing. Which is so– 


Josie Totah: Which is a common. Oh 100%. So then when we talk about why is it so hard to receive? I think it’s because of um I think it’s because of many different factors, how we’re raised, how we’re taught that– 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: –Love should be given. What our attachment style is, how our parents gave us love. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Absolutely. 


Josie Totah: But also like how we know how to love ourselves. And I think. The way that my dream reflected so beautifully and read me to fucking filth. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah, literally.


Josie Totah: Is how scared I am to receive love and how fearful I am of rejection. I’m frightened. I. 


Yasmine Hamady: [sigh] Yeah. 


Josie Totah: A lot of my life, I live in fear for many different reasons. Um. But I think when it comes to love, I think I’m afraid of rejection. I’m afraid of failure. I’m afraid of losing my safety net, my emotional and physical safety net. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 


Josie Totah: And I think. That has inhibited me and prohibited me from seeking out things that are actually healthy for me. And by being in a healthy, romantic relationship or from having those experiences that are beneficial for me because of how scared I am. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: And I was reading today this essay about self-actualization, which I sent to Yasmine. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mm hmm. 


Josie Totah: This scholarly article and how self-actualization is basically this theory um that was created by another man, but it was like extrapolated. Damn. Why did I say that word? Um. It was such a pick me word to say, extrapolated. Um.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No I love it. 


Yasmine Hamady: That’s kind of iconic.


Josie Totah: You know pick me vocabulary? There should be a pick me dictionary and that word would be in it. But like he extrapolated on it, elaborated on it. His name is like Maslow. And this guy, the psychologist Maslow or the philosophical psychologist. 


Yasmine Hamady: Please. 


Josie Totah: Elaborated on this idea that self-actualization is realizing one’s full fulfillment and full potential. And the only way to do that is by establishing or rather knocking down the incongruence between one’s desires and their actions. And the only way to do that is by killing your defense mechanisms from achieving– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: –What you want. 


Yasmine Hamady: Wow. 


Josie Totah: And my biggest defense mechanism, I think, is is fear and is fear of rejection. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mmm. 


Josie Totah: Anyway, to answer my own question, that’s why I do think giving is easier, because in giving, I have control. Um. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Absolutely. 


Josie Totah: But in your guys’s lives, like, how do you feel like love has been the most meaningful for you? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: May I– 


Yasmine Hamady: You. 


Josie Totah: Or like what type of love has been the most meaningful for you? Or you’ve experienced? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: May I say, I really love that Buddhist principle that like you presented, like this idea of us, like finding like the darkest and like most vulnerable parts of ourselves and actually deciding to deal with it. Like that introspective characteristic is really difficult to have. And I think I still struggle with it. Um. And I think it’s really beautiful that– 


Yasmine Hamady: It is. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –You’re like doing your own due diligence and the inner work and the self work because that isn’t easy. Like– 


Yasmine Hamady: No. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –To take that journey, um but love, that’s more meaningful? 


Yasmine Hamady: I don’t want to be like this. Oh, a theater bitch, but a great theater philosopher, um Stanislavski. He made a pyramid. And in order to be the best form of performer and best form of person, you have to work on oneself. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mm hmm. 


Yasmine Hamady: And that’s all of your inner workings. And you just having that article Josie and sending it to me, and it’s only a couple pages, but those. Taking that time of really investing in what am I afraid of? How can I be better? And how can I authentically, wholeheartedly love myself and love all the flaws and love all the fear and dance with the chaos? I feel like that leads you to giving and receiving love in a healthy way. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. And it’s like that saying like, the best love is self-love, but I think I’m having like a revelation as we talk. 


Yasmine Hamady: Go on. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: My the love that I love least is my self-love. 


Yasmine Hamady: Ahh. 


Josie Totah: Mmm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like, if I had a pyramid. 


Yasmine Hamady: Damn. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: If I had a pyramid. Actually. 


Josie Totah: That shit would be on the bottom. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: That shit would. No. Actually. You guys know how I feel about romantic love. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: So actually self-love and romantic love are in a dark place for me. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I would try to run away from that for a really long time. And mind you, like, I know how important it is. Like in the words of a mother RuPaul. [making two mouth clicking sounds] How the hell you gonna- 


Yasmine Hamady: That was really good. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Thank you so much. I watch a lot of drag race. Um how the hell you gonna love– 


Josie Totah: Wow she’s such an ally. 


Yasmine Hamady: Ally. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Fuck the both of y’all. [laughter] Say hi to Valentina! Ally. Ahh. Pero. I’m trying to quote one of the greatest philosophers of our time, RuPaul. How the hell you gonna love somebody else if you can’t love yourself? 


Yasmine Hamady: Can I get an amen up in here? 


[spoken together] Amen. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: So I know how important it is, but it’s probably, I struggle with it so much. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Just like loving myself. Like holistically, because I love other people way more than I love myself. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mmmm. 


Josie Totah: Why do you think that is, though? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I guess the answer that I can muster up is because I think I was like in a state of survival with my family for a very long time. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: That’s just not something that you have the privilege to discuss a lot is like, how are we loving ourself and self-care? 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: You know what I mean? Like, if I’m being completely honest. 


Yasmine Hamady: Did you meditate this morning? Like, did you like journal? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like, I you know, I’ve said it before. I really thank God for my spirituality and like the fact that I’ve always prioritized having a relationship with something bigger than me and that being the Lord. And having these principles that would guide me and, um you know, being like a servant to people is really important to me. But I think that. That lesson kind of got a little distorted when I was a kid. And it, like I forgot the part where my body is a temple and I’m supposed to preserve myself as well. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Cause that’s also scripture, right? But I think I kind of just listen to, like, just serve other people and love other people. And then I think that that also I would be remiss to not acknowledge that the way that I have difficulty loving myself is the way that I have difficulty loving people in a romantic way. 


Yasmine Hamady: Ahhh. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Because I am super, super loving and profusely affectionate with my friends and with my family. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: People know they are the center of my life. You guys know, like I can tell you guys every second of the day, I adore you. My family is– 


Josie Totah: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –My everything. Like, I’m a I’m a auntie, I’m a godmother, and I take that so seriously. But romantic love, I was naive in the past and I learned that it was rude because I would invalidate other people’s experiences and their truths because I was like, who the hell needs romantic love? Like, I spent most of my life being like, you don’t need that. And I would tell other people that they don’t need that. Which was so rude, you know what I mean? 


Yasmine Hamady: It’s not rude. I don’t think it’s rude. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But that was my truth at the time. And now. 


Josie Totah: Well. I also think you said that out of spite, because. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Cause also.


Josie Totah: I think you probably had a distorted view of like what that is. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mm hmm, for sure. For sure for sure for sure.


Josie Totah: And I think that. That was probably your defense mechanism was being like, why is this necessary? Why, why does this– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: –Need to happen? And like you were ignoring, like your own– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. And I still.


Josie Totah: –your own needs. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. No, I think. I think you’re so right. And I think still to this day, romantic love isn’t the biggest priority for me. But I’ve learned that, like, if I want to explore that, I deserve that. Whereas before I was just like, I don’t have space for it. And also, I. Thank God, grown in maturity. And I can’t look other people in the face who are saying like, I yearn for a relationship and tell them that they don’t need that because that’s invalidating. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But that leads me like to a question, what are the differences in the way that you guys conceptualize romantic and familial and like platonic love? And right now, which one is most important to you? Because that can change as well. 


Yasmine Hamady: I feel. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Did that question makes sense? 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes. No, it made so sense. 


Josie Totah: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Okay. 


Yasmine Hamady: I think you guys, when you say you, you have such a hard time with romantic love, I resonate with that. But for such a different reason. I know both of you guys are going to be like, Yas. I. I invest everything so quickly. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: [indistinct] 


Yasmine Hamady: I’ve literally met a guy one night and I’ve texted Josie and Alycia separately and was like, Yeah, I just found the love of my life after like meeting him for an hour. And I’m like, Yeah, this is the one. And I– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mm hmm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And see, I’m so sorry. At first I’d be so blunt with you and I’m like, You don’t know that, man. Stop talking like that. 


Yasmine Hamady: Which I don’t. And I but for me and so much, I used to just laugh it off. I used to be like, that’s so funny. Oh my God. Yas like, haha. But I started thinking and I think this was after recently Josie, you and I got off a call and you were, you asked me, you posed the question and you came at it with curiosity, not criticism. And you said. Why do you invest and put all of your love in someone so quickly when they haven’t earned that place in your life yet? And also, where’s that energy with yourself? And I kind of just sat there and I’m like, and I always have something to say. And I remember I told you Jos, I was like, I don’t have anything to say back to you. I don’t have a reply for that. I don’t. And I also think I think for me, it’s I just want to be loved. Don’t we all, though? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: Don’t we all just want– 


Josie Totah: Yeah, but. But why do you think you crave so much of that? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like, why do you think you crave so much, like, affection and validation? 


Josie Totah: And not just–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: From romantic love?


Josie Totah: –Love. But, like– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: From. 


Josie Totah: Like in like over zealous like. 


Yasmine Hamady: It’s love bombing. 


Josie Totah: Extreme emotional. 


Yasmine Hamady: It’s very intimate very quickly with a lot of the people I end up with. 


Josie Totah: And whoever was in that hotel that night crying. [laughter]


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I cannot. 


Yasmine Hamady: Um. 


Josie Totah: Whoever was in that fucking Marriott. That [?]


Yasmine Hamady: It wasn’t a Marriott, um. 


Josie Totah: You’re like, it was a Hilton. It was a Best Western. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Stop. 


Yasmine Hamady: It was a Motel 8, I’m kidding. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Hotels, sponsor us.


Josie Totah: Calm down, it was an Embassy Suites. 


Yasmine Hamady: Please. It was the Four Seasons, the SLS and Beverly Hills. No, it wasn’t. Um. I think it’s love bombing, and I think it’s because I just want to feel loved and cared about. Because I’ve been let down time and time again romantically. 


Josie Totah: Wait, you just such a such a good trigger word. Love bombing. 


Yasmine Hamady: That is. 


Josie Totah: Have you guys ever love bombed/been love bombed? 


Yasmine Hamady: In every relationship I’ve been in. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I also want to say, like, I think it’s amazing that our generation has been given vernacular to empower us and to help us understand situations, especially traumatizing ones. But it scares me that we throw around terms like gaslighting and love bombing, and then misconstrued it– 


Yasmine Hamady: No I. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –into different things. But to answer your question, yes. 


Yasmine Hamady: I meant that though. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I have been love bombed. Yeah, I know. But I think like. Us as stewards of a platform. 


Yasmine Hamady: 100%. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: You know what I mean? 


Yasmine Hamady: 100%. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But. 


Josie Totah: Yasmine’s like I’ve been love bombed. I’ve been real bombed. [laugh]. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: My family’s in Lebanon. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I can’t stand it. 


Yasmine Hamady: I have. Josie, have you been loved bombed/do you love bomb? Have you? 


Josie Totah: No. I’ve never loved bombed anyone. And I’ve never been love bombed in a romantic way. I think I may have loved bombed in a platonic way. 


Yasmine Hamady: That exists. 


Josie Totah: But I want. But wait. But Alycia. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Do you want me to expand on that? 


Josie Totah: Finish. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: Yes. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I think I was love bombed. And ironically. 


Josie Totah: Mmm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: [laughing] On one of our dates I was like are you love bombing? Because this man barely knew me. And I don’t think that I know everything by any means. I’m young, I have a lot to learn, but I think I’m a pretty perceptive girl. And this person was talking about like visiting my country and meeting my family and wanting to get to know my friends better. Um. And this is like one of the first times I spent alone with this person. And I was like, You are a beautiful soul. I enjoy your energy. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But I was like, You do not know me. 


Yasmine Hamady: You also don’t mean that. You don’t mean it.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I said those words verbatim. I was like, And if you do mean it, it’s on a surface level. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I think a lot of people are too busy looking for love rather, and looking for the right person rather than being the right person for themselves. 


Yasmine Hamady: Wait, let’s take a second. Let’s. Say that exactly again. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: You know what I mean? I think a lot of people– 


Yasmine Hamady: Go on. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –are too worried, looking for the right person rather than being the right person for themselves. 


Yasmine Hamady: That. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And also, I think a lot of people are infatuated with the idea of love rather than what love actually means. 


Yasmine Hamady: We romanticize it. 


Josie Totah: Okay. Wait. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But yes. 


Josie Totah: You just said a lot of things. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes, I did say a lot of things. But anyways, to answer your question, because I know that I can, like a train my accent was going to come out. 


Josie Totah: No, no, no. I love all the things you said. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes. 


Josie Totah: But I but I want to ask you and–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh god. 


Josie Totah: Like I know this answer, but maybe it’d help the audience to know this answer, like. When you were going through that, I remember you saying you said this sentence every fucking day. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Every single day. 


Josie Totah: You said. I’m this is. And this is what she said, you should have got it tattooed on your calf. [laughing] You said. I’m waiting for the other shoe to drop. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: Like you knew that it was coming. And as your friend, I felt torn because. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes. 


Josie Totah: On one hand. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mmmm. 


Josie Totah: I. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Wow. 


Josie Totah: I see. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah lets talk about it yeah.


Josie Totah: On one hand, I see the things that he’s doing. I see the things that he’s saying and yeah, I think that’s fucking crazy that he wants to go to the Dominican Republic. [laughter] Um and visit–


Yasmine Hamady: Literally after– 


Josie Totah: Your like great, visit you’re like ancestral ground. 


Yasmine Hamady: Family. 


Josie Totah: But at the same time, here I have this friend, my one of my best friends, my life partner is telling me that, like, she’s having all these great experiences, and I’ve never seen you, like, get excited about boys. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: Not that, like, this is the first boy that’s made you excited, but like, certainly in our friendship, because I wasn’t with you when you had your first boyfriend, I felt at a crossroads because as much as I wanted to be like, okay, yeah, that’s a little weird. At the same time, I wanted to be excited for you, and I felt that like maybe your defense mechanism was saying like– 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes, Josie. 


Josie Totah: I’m waiting for the other shoe to drop. I’m waiting for the shoe to drop. And I yeah. So not to make it about me. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes, no no. 


Josie Totah: But I’m just saying, like in that moment I felt that. Did you feel that turmoil as well? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No, absolutely. Because I was I was seeing you have that like inner dialog, even though you weren’t saying it. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I get it. All of my friends were like this. Well, first and foremost, because I understand I can turn into a beast sometimes when it comes to things I don’t want to talk about. And romantic stuff is usually stuff I want to talk about. So all of you guys were like this. Like this the whole time. Like, we don’t know what we can say to her, which makes me sad. I want people to be able to say whatever they want, but I understand that like on this topic, I’m– 


Yasmine Hamady: But they’re boundaries and you have those up. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah they’re boundaries. But anyways, to answer your question, I could see how a lot of the time you were like, I just want her to like finally let go. Because when it comes to men, like I am not trusting, I don’t want to give them an opportunity. I like doing my own thing. So I saw you being like, yes, be protective of your heart, but like try to enjoy it. And then the other shoe did drop. But it was funny because like during that entire process, I was like, he’s an amazing person. But I see that a lot of this seemed superficial and it turned out to be, and that’s okay. That’s life. That’s what why we have experiences. 


Yasmine Hamady: It’s a learning curve. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But it was it was beautiful because you guys were just like, just lean into it a little bit. Because I don’t. 


Yasmine Hamady: I remember. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I don’t ever want to give men energy. But I did. I could see, like, Josie as my best friend being like, just give it a chance. Because I think a part of my defense mechanism is just not even engaging in romantic love, which isn’t healthy either. 


Yasmine Hamady: Well, that leads me to you brought up something very g–. That leads me to vulnerability. And I ask both of you, I pose this question of do you feel like you guys are vulnerable people? How do you give vulnerability? Alycia is like smirking, fuck off, please. And also–


Josie Totah: She’s not vulnerable. 


Yasmine Hamady: And why does and why does vulnerability scare you if it does? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Josie? 


Josie Totah: Here’s one thing about me. Vulnerability for me in so many ways is something that I do all the time. It’s something that I’m forced to do. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mm hm. 


Josie Totah: Because I’m literally a trans person. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mm hmm. 


Josie Totah: Who transitioned in front of– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Public eye yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: –So many people in front of the public eye. And I, I have to be vulnerable. 


Yasmine Hamady: 100%. 


Josie Totah: Because if I’m not vulnerable, who the fuck else is going to be? I didn’t have so many people to look up to growing up. To like I still now I’m like, now that I’m like starting dating and all these things, I’m like, there’s no guidebook. I was saying to like some of my cast the other day, they’re like, oh, what? When, what? At what point do you usually say this and that about yourself? And I’m like, I don’t fucking know. Like, there’s no textbook on this. There’s no person that I could, like, ask about this. There’s no TV show of someone doing this. Like, I feel like I’m living such uncharted territory. So vulnerability for me is something that I’m so often forced to do when it can help other people. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: That I’ve realized recently that when vulnerability is hard for me, it’s, when it’s, it’s in pursuit of something that’s that is supposed to benefit me, if that makes sense. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes, it does. Yes it does. 


Josie Totah: And I guess, I mean, that vulnerability in romantic love is hard for me because that is something that I have to do for myself as opposed to like I can’t. I can gain strength by knowing that like, yes, I might feel uncomfortable about posting something about being trans on Instagram because this boy or that person or this would see it like, I’m sorry, that is something that comes in my head sometimes because I’m not a fully self-actualized person, Mr. fucking Maslow. Um. But. I do it because I have the strength by all the people that look up to me. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mmm. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: And so when it comes to, I have no strength for when it comes to doing it for myself, when it comes to like dating and that kind of thing. So that’s when vulnerability becomes very hard for me. I know it was a very long winded way of saying it. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No. 


Yasmine Hamady: No. 


Josie Totah: But like.


Yasmine Hamady: And I think that goes back to what you said. [banter] First of all, thank you so much for sharing that with us. And B.), I think that goes exactly back to what you said in the beginning, that you are so much better or more um. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Inclined to do something– 


Yasmine Hamady: Inclined to give– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –for other people. 


Yasmine Hamady: –but not receive. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah, because I feel the same way. 


Yasmine Hamady: I think that goes exactly back to that. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. But I think it’s also important to note that like you’re forced into vulnerability, sometimes. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And that isn’t fair. 


Yasmine Hamady: Nope. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like as much as I’m on a journey to be more vulnerable, because if you haven’t caught wind by now, I’m not a vulnerable person. I think I’m very kind, but vulnerability is something I struggle with greatly and the girls know. But their friendship directly in my life has made me more vulnerable. And I’m learning that it’s okay for people to know things about me. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Not because I think I’m self-important. It’s a toxic trait. I don’t like people knowing things about me, but I think it’s just because I’m a private person. 


Yasmine Hamady: That’s not toxic though. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But anyways. 


Yasmine Hamady: But I don’t think that’s toxic.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Going back to that. No. I think it’s also important to know, as we talk about this journey about vulnerability and stuff, go at a pace that makes you feel comfortable, don’t force things to make other people happy. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: So. Yes. Be vulnerable. Yes. Grow. Yes. Be willing to actually have beautiful, loving connections, platonic or romantic with people. But it’s like we also shouldn’t. Like. Force ourselves to conform to other people’s idea of love. So thank you for sharing that, Josie seriously. 


Yasmine Hamady: Thank you, baby. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And you are on uncharted territories. Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: What’s yours? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mine? 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh, I thought I said it like. 


Josie Totah: Oh yeah you didn’t answer. No. You talked about how it was hard for you to talk about– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I did answer. 


Josie Totah: –vulnerability. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: It’s that I’m on a journey and I think that I’m getting better at it. And, like, y’all’s friendship has made me more inclined to be vulnerable. But like, I don’t like people knowing things about me, and it’s not in, like, a narcissistic manner. 


Josie Totah: And you’ve always been that way. Alycia has–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I’ve always– 


Josie Totah: always been. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Josie’s like, here’s my [?] Yes. Go. Yes.


Josie Totah: You’ve always been the person to, like, not say things about you or like, I’d find out. Like, you know, I think that was something that was hard in our friendship. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mmm. 


Josie Totah: Was that like and you can stop me for saying this. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No please. 


Josie Totah: We would hang out for weeks every day, spend every minute together, and I would find out that something bad had happened in your life or something weird had happened in your life. Like that happened months ago. And I didn’t know that I could be there for you. And I think for a lot of times that can be difficult because like I think everyone just wants to love you and be there for you. But like, your not being vulnerable makes that hard sometimes and but more so for yourself. And like, what do you think it is the main reason why you aren’t vulnerable or like with the people around you? 


Yasmine Hamady: Can I just want to point out– 


Josie Totah: [?] in every day life. 


Yasmine Hamady: –one thing that when you said, we just want to love you, Josie. Alycia literally just like cracked a smile. And I almost thought you were going to start tearing up a bit. That was beautiful. And I mean that to Alycia. Like, we just. We love you. We want you. We want you to just be happy. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I know. Thank you. That meant a lot. Um. I’m not good at being vulnerable. I don’t like crying. It’s a very toxic trait. And I think. I don’t like getting my hopes up because people can’t let me down. And I feel like showing people vulnerable parts of myself and letting people into my life in an intimate manner allows them to take a stake in my life. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mmm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And that means I depend on them and I am hyper independent and I don’t like depending on people and I don’t even fully understand why. I think it’s because it’s like I’ve been hurt in the past and I’ve experienced like um obviously hurtful things we all have. And I think that it’s easier to just not be vulnerable and have people not know things. 


Josie Totah: Mm hmm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And that’s why I like my intimate circle. Like I love learning about people. I will talk to a random person for 7 hours, but to talk about myself is difficult. And also like it’s just easier. It’s easier for people to know me from a distance and it’s easier for me to play characters and perform and live in my passion without people knowing me in an intimate manner. Um. Because also, like– 


Yasmine Hamady: It’s a survival mechanism. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. It’s also just like. 


Josie Totah: And that’s– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I think I think I’ve gotten pretty callous about vulnerable things in my life because of past experiences. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um. Because of. Yeah. Um. Because of just. In ways that people have left or people have hurt or people have disregarded my feelings. So it’s a lot easier um for me to keep things close to the chest. But I think I’m definitely on a journey to still be vulnerable. I think I will leave this earth being super private about certain things and [?] 


Yasmine Hamady: And that’s, and that’s your right. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But no, I thank you guys you push– 


Yasmine Hamady: But. I wanna.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: You guys challenge me and like hold me accountable and make me like feel okay to feel soft. And also like if I’m being honest as well, I think like growing up as. Being a part of my community, like you were told that you’re not supposed to talk about certain things and that you aren’t supposed to be vulnerable. And I think specifically, like, you know. Um. As a Black woman, like we’re not given the space to be soft. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mmm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I think softness doesn’t come easy to me sometimes. So, um yeah. 


Josie Totah: I, I want to thank you for your candor and for your honesty, because what you did right now, like, I’m so fucking proud of you um for even just saying that. But like more importantly, I want you to know that like it isn’t your fault. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: And it’s not mine either. And it’s not Yasmine’s, and it’s not anyone listening to this. Like our fear of being vulnerable, our bad relationship of vulnerability and receiving love and accepting it and maybe having a hard time giving it, is not our fault. Like we are put on this earth and we are dealt cards. And some are harder than others. And. We recognize that. We recognize levels in that. But I think the only way to get through and to evolve is to accept that, like, you know, we’re not the cause for this and we shouldn’t be blaming ourselves. And by inflicting pain on ourselves for the circumstances that we’ve been put in that have allowed us or disallowed us to to be authentic in certain ways and to be vulnerable in certain ways, it’s not fair. And like we deserve to be upset about that. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: And I don’t want you to ever feel burdened by that. And I know that you probably do. And I want you to know that like it my wane for you, my love for you never wanes because of that. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: And it never has. And it never will. And I think I can speak for all of us in some ways, because I know you guys so well, but I’ll just speak for myself. So no one comes for me. There were so many times in my life where I didn’t know that happiness or like contentness was a real thing. I think I viewed it. I think I still sort of view it as something that comes. Never. Or, you know, after death. And I thought for a long time that I would never be able to enjoy anything or feel happiness or feel warm in my heart. And in so many ways that has changed. And in so many ways I’ve felt so much gratitude. I felt so much more comfortable in my skin. I felt like I’ve been able to receive love like none other now more than ever. And I want to give people the hope that, like, even by taking small steps of receiving love and whatever that means to you on the smallest level of of someone giving you a compliment and you not shrugging it off and just saying thank you or someone telling you something about yourself and just wholeheartedly receiving it and knowing that like. It will get better because I think for a lot of us, we didn’t think that could happen and we thought that life would just stop. But it hasn’t stopped and it’s not going to. [music break] With the ever changing stratosphere that is, social media, celebrity fashion moments have transcended off the carpet and onto the streets thanks to God sends like Du Muah and the Holy Bible that is Daily Mail. We get to see all these moments and decide for ourselves if they’re meant for heaven or hell. Welcome to service. This is Fashion Church. [sounds of choir singing] Alright you guys? So we are going to look at the kaleidoscope of a journey that is Ben Affleck’s fashion life. We are going to decide through each photo if each individual outfit should go to heaven or hell. All right. Which first one do we have up? And by the way, I have not seen any of these photos this like my first reaction to all of this. Okay. So right now we have Ben Affleck outside of what looks like a New York home. I mean, I could be wrong. He’s wearing a blue ocean blue sweater, long sleeves. It this look, it looks like a catalog off of like GAP circa 2008, um like just before the housing crisis. Um. He’s also wearing some navy blue jeans that, like, at first glance look like like slightly wet, like they were taken out of the dryer just like a little too soon. Um. This is an outfit that I would rate, maybe a three out of ten. I’ve seen my dad wear better outfits than this. His, the face in this image is like, truly, it’s what makes it what’s what makes the photo. It looks as if he’s just like released a large shit that has just exited his rectum. But every inch that it was like leaving it like was scraping the sides of his asshole and there’s a cigarette in his hand of course which maybe this is, that’s just the feeling he gets when he smokes cigarettes. So. Okay. Next. Three out of ten. This is a sin. [camera shutter sound] Okay, so we have Mr. Affleck again, but this time with an iced coffee. I’m going to assume that his order is like an iced Americano or like just like an iced black coffee. He has a copy of the New York Times. He’s in a greenish shirt. That honestly is not the worst. It says motel on it. It’s like it’s like a like a cute booger green. And like then he’s wearing, like, some sort of cargo pant and a ball cap um with some signage on it. This one is a little bit better, I’d say I would give it like a five or six out of ten. The way he has his like cigarette very Ansel Elgort-y, like in the side of his mouth um in that like, they can. The film about um Shailene Woodley in um them having cancer. Uh. This one’s a little bit better I have to say. There’s something so sexy about him not needing to hold up that cigarette and just like his poor teeth doing it. I will say the way he is gripping that newspaper strikes immediate concern. It is like he has a harsh grip on this stack of paper. So I guess five out of ten, I don’t think this is a sin. I think he’s going to heaven. He looks he looks sweet here. This isn’t like old man core. This is a little bit nicer. [camera shutter sound] Okay. Now, this photo is a little bit truly. It’s concerning. It looks like Ben is drinking like what what seems to be a Budweiser as he’s holding a little nub of a cigarette with a V neckline sweater. I don’t know what’s more concerning, the fact that his hair looks like that of a eighties serial killer or that I could literally, like, take a nap on his beard. It’s like a it’s like a carpet, like a giant wool carpet. His overall look in general, I think is is hellish. It’s truly hellish. This is a three out of ten. Send him to hell. [camera shutter sound] Okay. Now, this is like, this is a moment. He is in a sort of sort of sports tee like a fake sports tee with the number 99 on the back of it. He has a murse and he is oh this is really interesting. He’s smoking a cigarette through a mask like a COVID mask. So it’s like this photo gives like anti-covid pro cancer. And for that, I am sending it to hell. [camera shutter sound] Okay, this looks like a still from a movie that he’s done. He’s in, like, suspenders and like, these weird yellow trousers. Um. Somehow, this is the best photo he’s ever been in. He looks like he would be saying some sort of line, like, giddy up, princess. [horse neighing sound] And I think that’s hot and that’s attractive. The tie is like green and black and his hair is, like, swept to the side, like like a young real estate broker just waiting to cheat on his second wife. I think this is a seven out of ten. It’s going to heaven. [camera shutter sound] Okay. So now here Ben is with what looks like a Republican dad’s vape. It’s like one of those really big, thick vapes and uh like a leather jacket with a purple cardigan underneath. This is a sad look for him. It’s not great. I don’t know if it’s just the fact that like the vape is so dated. Or like somebody get this man like a, like what do kids use these days? I mean, I guess Juuls are banned, but like a, I don’t know, like a something a little bit sexier than, like, it looks like there’s like, meth juice in there. I’m. It’s like a tube. Uh. But as far as, like, outfit. Yeah. A four out of ten. He’s going to hell. This is. This is a gross outfit. [camera shutter sound] Oh, wow. Okay, so here we have Ben with his hair all the way gelled back. Um. He’s wearing a T-shirt that has some signage on it. It says, Have you seen the wizard? And then there’s like a photo of a of a dirty man on it. And then he’s also, like, holding an empty Gatorade bottle again with a cigarette in his mouth. This is a really strange moment for him. I honestly do like how tight the shirt is though, because it does showcase his duscles. Dad muscles, and yeah, it’s not the worst, but he gives Stuart Little vibes here. Just like a little, little fucking wrap. This is weirdly like an eight out of the ten. The shirt’s hot. Uh. He should just like fix his hair. Alright you guys. That was service for today. I’m really happy that we could look through the life of Ben and looks, you know, some some sins. Definitely some blessings were in there. But either way that concludes the moment and uh peace be with you. [music break] I love you guys. That was harder than I thought it was going to be. But also it was therapeutic as fuck and why was I on the verge of crying the whole time. 


Yasmine Hamady: I know, Josie. I constantly feel your love wherever I go and I can’t thank you enough. And also, if you’re hearing this, tell your community and your family or whoever it is and yourself, God dammit, I love you. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah, it’s scary to love guys. I literally was squirming in my seat.


Yasmine Hamady: She didn’t want to do this episode. She was like, fuck this episode. I don’t want to do this.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I lowkey was squirming in my seat like my hands are sweating. My hands have never sweated in their life. But um yeah, just love yourself even if it’s scary and love the people around you and lean into it on this burning ash trash of a planet that humans and corporations are ruining. Be a little up. We love you guys. 


Josie Totah: And I feel better after talking to you about this. And I hope us talking about this encourages you guys to just talk more about it. Because we talk about it, it becomes less scarier. Anyway. Father, Son, in the name of holy Gwyneth Paltrow. Yasmine. 


Yasmine Hamady: If you’re hearing this, I love you. And fuck Marjorie Taylor Greene. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Rate our podcast five stars and follow @darewesay on Instagram because you’re hot if you do so. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. Amazing. Thank you so much for listening. 


Josie Totah: Dare We Say is a Crooked Media production. 


Yasmine Hamady: Caroline Reston is our showrunner, producer and mommy. And Ari Schwartz is our producer and show daddy. Fiona Pestana is our associate producer and Sandy Girard is the almighty executive producer. 


Josie Totah: It’s hosted and produced by me, Josie Totah. 


Yasmine Hamady: And me, Yasmine Hamady. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And me Alycia Pascual-Peña. Vasilis Fotopoulos and Charlotte Landes, they are both our engineers. Brian Vasquez is our editor and theme music composer. Our video producers are Matt DeGroot, Narineh Melkonian, and Delon Villanueva and Mia Kellman. 


Josie Totah: Lastly, thank you to Jordan Silver, Gabriela Leverette, Jesse McLean, Caroline Heywood, Shaina Hortsmann, Deisi Cruz, Danielle Jensen and Ewa Okulate for marketing the show and making us look so damn good.